Jaylen Brown BLAMES Refs—Why Did He Really Struggle? | Anfernee Simons SHINES!

Summary

Locked On Celtics – January 9, 2026

Episode Title: Jaylen Brown BLAMES Refs—Why Did He Really Struggle? | Anfernee Simons SHINES!
Host: John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal)
Guest: Tom Westerholm

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode unpacks Jaylen Brown’s controversial postgame comments blaming officiating for his struggles against Denver, while host John Karalis and guest Tom Westerholm analyze the real causes behind Brown’s performance—both the good and the bad. The Celtics’ role players, especially Anfernee Simons and Neemias Queta, are discussed for their contributions and development. The episode also dives into the evolving narrative surrounding the Trey Young trade and what it means for his reputation.

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Key Discussion Points

Jaylen Brown’s Struggles and Referee Controversy

[03:02–14:45]

• Karalis and Westerholm begin by dissecting Jaylen Brown’s postgame press conference, where Brown repeatedly cited the referees as a major factor in his poor performance against Denver.
• Karalis emphasizes that postgame comments often serve as coded messages—not always literal answers to questions.
• While Brown’s stat line (33 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists on 29 shots) looked impressive, both hosts agree his in-game impact was lacking.

"Good for Jaylen Brown for turning himself into a player where he can put up those numbers. And it's like, man, you weren't very good today." – Tom Westerholm [04:04]

• Discussion turns to advanced stats and why they sometimes underrate Brown—pointing to defensive lapses, decision-making, and turnovers in key possessions.

• Westerholm points out that Brown only got three free throws despite aggressive drives, validating some frustration:

"Three free throws is not a lot...he did drive a lot, he did hit the ground a lot. That's all true." – Tom Westerholm [05:11]

However, Westerholm and Karalis critique Brown’s repeated deflections to officiating, enumerating missed defensive assignments and following with:

"...maybe talk about that stuff less so than the refs. Also maybe make your free throws." – Tom Westerholm [05:55]

Memorable Moment (Tactical Breakdown)

• Karalis uses game examples—like Brown’s failure to match up in transition, poor boxing out leading to fouls, and missed defensive switches—to argue for player responsibility over blaming refs:

"He gave up, I would say, eight to ten points by being out of position in that game. For sure." – John Karalis [09:32]

• Both hosts assert that letting referees get into a player’s head cannot become an excuse for lack of defensive effort, especially for someone who claims to be the league’s top two-way player.

Quote:

"If the refs being in your head is a problem, then...this is where you got to play through it, like, have a 40 point game, win the game...and then you go say, ‘Hey, by the way, the refs.’" – John Karalis [13:37]

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Positives from the Denver Game: Anfernee Simons and Role Players

[16:35–22:28]

• Karalis brings up Anfernee Simons’ comfort and emergence as a key role player. Simons has found his rhythm, displaying high-level scoring and shot creation.

"The way he plays is so smooth and so aesthetically pleasing. Like, I just love watching him hoop." – Tom Westerholm [18:30]

• The hosts argue that scorers like Simons are rare and that his shot-making and shot-creation abilities are assets Boston simply can’t replicate easily given salary cap constraints.

• Simons’ skill in crafting shots and setting up defenders is praised as “pleasure to watch” basketball:

"He knows exactly how to set up a defender ... So, even though they know you like to do a certain thing, you still do it anyway because they have to respect a drive, they have to respect this move." – John Karalis [20:14]

• The potential for Simons to stay with Boston is debated, with Westerholm noting that unless a “no-brainer deal” comes along, Simons’s presence off the bench is invaluable.

• The development staff's knack for maximizing underappreciated bigs is also highlighted, leading into a discussion of Neemias Queta.

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Neemias Queta’s Development & The Celtics’ Big Man Magic

[23:03–32:36]

• Karalis and Westerholm praise Queta’s improvements, specifically his 20-rebound game vs. Denver, and discuss how Boston's development staff continues to turn unheralded big men into quality contributors.

"I've seen this about Jaylen Brown, I've seen this about Keda...it's disrespectful to the player who actually did improve, who worked and got better and reached new heights." – John Karalis [29:14]

• Karalis emphasizes that Queta's growth is real, not just overlooked talent:

"He has worked very hard to prove people like me wrong. And I have no problem saying he's proven me wrong, but it's because he has gotten better." [29:56]

• Both agree that meaningful NBA development hinges on work ethic, not just raw physical gifts.

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Trey Young Trade: Reality Check & Vindication

[32:36–39:02]

• The episode closes with a discussion about the Trey Young trade—Young being dealt at age 27 for 34-year-old CJ McCollum, Corey Kispert, and zero draft picks.

"Getting traded at 27 years old for 34 year old CJ McCollum, Corey Kispert and zero picks. ... Mikal Bridges went for six first round picks." – John Karalis [33:48]

• Karalis and Westerholm feel vindicated after years of skepticism about Young’s fit as a winning NBA player.

• Both recap the market’s cold response to Young:

"The Wolves and Nets are like, 'Will you?' Nah. We're flattered, Trey.” – John Karalis [34:49]

• Karalis remains open to a Trey Young redemption arc if Young recognizes the need for self-improvement:

"I am telling everybody I'm willing to come around on Trey Young if he says, ... ‘I realized some things about how I'd carried myself.’ ... I'm open to it, because we all love a redemption story." – John Karalis [36:22]

• Westerholm expresses fatigue at being "right" about the Young discourse and just wants to watch good basketball:

"It's not fun to be a hater. It's fun to watch good basketball. And Trey Young hasn't been playing good basketball for a while." – Tom Westerholm [38:05]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jaylen Brown Blaming the Refs:
  "So many of the things that he says, 'I'm not going to make excuses' ... that's actually not an excuse. It's actually a good explanation. The ref thing, taking three answers out of five ... to turn it into 'the refs didn’t give me the calls.’ That is the excuse." – John Karalis [13:03]

• On Role Players Outperforming Expectations:
  "Brad Stevens can just pick out... go to the bargain bin and get bigs, man... you certainly don’t get [bucket getters like Simons] out of the G League." – Tom Westerholm [23:22]

• On Player Development:
  "To get better, to improve to this degree— that requires the thing that is worth praising." – Tom Westerholm [31:35]

• On the Trey Young Trade:
  "Right away, it's like, Trey Young has to be sitting there, like, so this is what it's come to. ... At 27 years old, you got to go to Washington and rebuild everything." – John Karalis [35:04]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:02] – Initial breakdown of Jaylen Brown's postgame comments
• [04:02] – Real talk: Why advanced stats don’t always love Brown
• [06:37] – Specific breakdowns of Brown’s defensive lapses
• [09:32] – Impact of Brown’s defensive breakdowns on the game
• [13:03] – Karalis draws line between explanation versus excuse
• [16:35] – Anfernee Simons praise and discussion of his fit/role
• [22:28] – Celtics’ big man “alchemy” and Neemias Queta's improvement
• [29:14] – Addressing the narrative that Queta “always had it”
• [33:48] – Trey Young trade analysis and market value
• [36:22] – Open call for Trey Young’s possible redemption arc
• [38:05] – Host’s sentiment: The goal is good basketball, not hater-ism

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Jaylen Brown’s struggles can’t simply be chalked up to officiating—defensive lapses and focus played a major role.
• Anfernee Simons stands out as a valuable offensive spark, and his comfort level is growing.
• Neemias Queta’s progress is a testament to Boston’s developmental system and his own work ethic.
• The Trey Young trade is a reality check for “empty stats” stars, but the door remains open for redemption if attitudes change.

The episode maintains the candid, critical-yet-optimistic tone Locked On Celtics is known for: supportive of player improvement, demanding of player accountability, and honest about the business side of basketball.

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For further in-depth analysis and reaction, check out the YouTube-exclusive bonus segment covering the Collective Bargaining Agreement’s influence on the Trey Young market.

Locked On Celtics – Your Team. Every Day.

Transcript

[John Corrales]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

Sign up for a 30 day free trial today. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. Jaylen Brown says it was the refs. It might have been something else too. Plus thoughts on the Trey Young trade. It had to happen, but maybe not for the reason you're thinking. It's right now on the Lock On Celtics podcast. Locked on Celtics Pod Homa the winner, baby. Hey, welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics podcast right here in the Lockdown Podcast network. It's your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics and I talk about them every Monday through Friday. Plus you got bonus podcasts like they play Friday night against Toronto. They play Saturday night against San Antonio. So I got bonus podcasts coming up after those games. Everything's free. It's available everywhere. However, you found us if you're watching the show on YouTube, it's there too as well. I am John Corrales. If you're new to the show, I'm a beat writer covering the Celtics for Boston Sports Journal. I've written a couple of books about the team. I've been covering the team for about 20 years. I've been doing this podcast for 10 FanDuel. It brings you today's show before tip off Friday night between 6 and 7:30. Go check out FanDuel's NBA Happy Hour for special deals dropping every Friday between 6 and 7:30. Later on we'll get into the Trey Young trade. I know I have thoughts for sure. We'll get into some of the positive stuff from that, that loss to the Nuggets, mostly the role players and Anthony Simons. But we're going to start with Jaylen Brown. More on Jaylen Brown because he made it about the refs. And you know what? It might Was it about the refs? Was it not about the refs? Let's get Tom Westerholm in here.

[Tom Westerholm]

Thank you. Thank you.

[John Corrales]

Thank you. So, Jalen, look, one, I'm going to start with this. We know that you and I know the, the post game press conferences are not as simple as I ask. They answer my question. It's I ask a question, they decide they want to send a message to the league, to the officials, to teammates, to coaches, whomever. And some of what's being said, whatever percentage on whatever day is not even meant to answer the question directly. So I think Jalen was, he spent a lot of time about the refs complaining, but I don't know that we can go back and be like, ah, the ref screwed Jalen Brown and that was the end of the story. I think there's a lot more to Jalen Brown's performance in this loss to Denver.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, it wasn't great, right? Like the performance, which is one of the things that struck me is just in the immediate aftermath, right. Is like 33, 7 and 4 on 29 shots. And you're like, oh, good one. You know, it's like it wasn't really, you know, I mean, good for Jalen Brown for turning himself into a player where he can put up those numbers. And it's like, man, you, yeah, weren't very good today.

[John Corrales]

He's had a couple of those this season, though. Yeah. I'm gonna interrupt you for a second. We just did the podcast about why do they advance numbers? Not like Jalen Brown. And I feel like the basketball gods were like, oh, yeah, well, we got an answer for that question here. Watch him against the Denver Nuggets and you'll get your answer. I.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes. And also it's interesting, right, because I think we've had a couple of those this season. But also like it, we, we've had a lot of games where he has been really impactful the other direction.

[Advertisement/Host Voice]

Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like, you know, and like, I mean we've seen, we've seen very much the, the duality of man in Jaylen Brown this year.

[John Corrales]

Yes.

[Tom Westerholm]

But yeah, I mean like it was, it was very striking to me how much time he spent talking about the refs afterward because it was like, I mean listen, I, I, I, I, three free throws is not a lot of free throws. Right? Like that is, that is not a lot. He does say like, you know, hey, I drive a lot. I'm really aggressive. And you know what he did, he, he did, he did drive a lot. He did hit the ground a lot. That's, that's all true. You know, if, if the Celtics weren't where they are and if Jalen Brown hadn't been who he has been all year, I do think that we would be coming away from that game with a little bit of like that's your takeaway from this game. You know, like Jalen has had his head on straight the whole season. He's been awesome all season. The Celtics have been great all season. But like, if things hadn't been so good previously, I would be coming away from that game like dog. How about the, the, the three turnovers at the time when like you, yeah. Genuinely needed every single possession. Like how about, you know, like how about the defensive lapses that happens in the aftermath of you saying that you're the best two way player in the NBA? Like maybe talk about maybe that stuff less so than like the refs to me. Hey, also maybe make your free throws like you also. Yes, it's a different game. Like I don't know.

[John Corrales]

He, he got 16 shots in the paint, so he's 3 of 6 in the restricted area. He doesn't usually go 3 of 6 in the restricted area. There had to be some kind of something there. So on one hand, yes, Jaylen Brown probably didn't get certain calls. I didn't go back and look at every potential foul to say was it a foul, wasn't it a foul? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. He probably got fouled on a handful of those and should have gone to the line. And can you say that would have changed the game? Maybe. But also Jalen just has to own some good old fashioned responsibility for the defensive lapses in that loss. There there were a few, especially in the fourth quarter. There, there was one where was a few minutes left to go in the game. The Nuggets got a, a rebound and here Comes Jamal Murray down the middle of the floor. Classic fast break. A three on two where he's down the middle of the floor. He's got guys filling the lanes that are, they're not flaring out the three. Jalen is back. But when Jamal Murray comes over the. The half court line, Jalen is in the middle of the paint, but he's got his back turned to Jamal Murray. He's just kind of like slowly jogging. He's got his head over his shoulder like, huh, I wonder what you're going to do. I wonder where he's going to go. Instead of doing the fundamental thing, turning around, getting into position. And wherever Jamal Murray decides to make the pass, slide over, contest the shot, try to take a chart something. He just is. He's back, but he's. His back is to the play and he never made an effort to get out of that. There was another, another play. I wish I could show these on YouTube, but we don't have the rights. There's another play earlier than that where Murray, they, they run a pick and roll on the right side. It was Naji who goes into the lane and Jalen just kind of willingly stays behind him instead of turning around. A little bit of effort, little spin move to get in front of Najee and that would have, you would have left the opposite corner open, which the Celtics kind of leave opposite corners open anyway. But you still had Derek White over there to kind of go, go kind of contest that. If there was a skip pass, you have time if there's a skip pass to get there. But he just kind of left Zeke Najee there and it was an easy pass and dunk and foul. I think it was. No, it was a foul. Jalen fouled him. Little things like that where Jalen can say, the refs, maybe I let the rest get in my head a little bit, then that's, that's. We can sit there and be like, yes, Jalen, you are correct. You didn't get calls.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

But also you, you can't, you cannot let that affect you and you cannot like make that as an excuse not to give effort on defense like you said. Especially after saying I'm the best two way player in the league. Because, yeah, you might be the best like one on one defender, but he, he gave up, I would say, eight to 10 points by being out of position in that game. For sure.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. When you were saying that one of the. Brought to mind one of my least favorite of his plays where like Zeke Najee comes down, like down the Baseline, Derrick White blocks him, and then Jordan Walsh blocks him. And during that whole time, he. Jaylen Brown was the one who should have been boxing him out to get the rebound so that these blocks weren't necessary, right? And then, like, then Naji gets it, and Jaylen just kind of reaches over him and fouls him, goes to the free throw line. I was. I was pretty late in the fourth quarter. It's like, yeah, I. I think. And to your point, right, it's like if. If you mention if, hey, you want to send a message post game, you want to take one of the answers, you know, one of the questions and say, like, yeah, I'm. I'm a pretty aggressive player. I feel like I should have gotten to the free throw line. That's one thing, right? Like, if you do it once, but when, like, it comes up three times, and it's like, I'm. I'm okay with a guy saying, I felt like I should have gotten calls. It got in my head a little bit, and I got to own that, and I got to be better about that. Like, that, to me, is. Is fine. You know, that. That's like, hey, I'm taking some accountability here. I'm like, hey, that's. That's on me. I should have been better today. That is a normal thing that could happen in an early January game. It's just like, you know, course of a long season, I let it get in my head, won't happen again. That's my bad. Also, the refs weren't very good. Yeah, that is. That's fine. But it's just. It almost like he's. He's talked about the refs a lot this season, and, you know, like, I think that was reflected in yesterday's post game.

[John Corrales]

And look, I. I'm. This happens, right? Like, I'm. I'm not upset about the loss at all. Like, it happens. Denver without Jokic, still good. They've got legitimate depth. Jamal Murray played great. He was great. You were saying it before we started. He had 17 assists, and they were all, like, legitimate assists, assists.

[Tom Westerholm]

One. Dribble on. On all 17 of his assists. The most ethical. 17 assists.

[John Corrales]

You will see.

[Tom Westerholm]

He created all those buckets.

[John Corrales]

He was awesome. Denver was great. They.

[Tom Westerholm]

Watson is awesome. Like, that guy's going to be good.

[John Corrales]

He's good. He's really good. So, okay, so you lose. You lose to Denver. Big deal. No. 1. It's not like I'm sitting there going like, oh, my God, Jalen, you screw the Celtic. Like, no, no. And I Wouldn't have even. I would not have even done this segment if it wasn't for like, you know what? Jalen really talked about the refs a lot. And it, you know, for a guy who says, I'm not going to make a lot, I'm not going to make excuses. He. This is the one thing that actually comes off as an excuse. So many of the things that he, like, he says, I'm not going to make excuses. You know, we had this, this and this. I'm like, that's actually not an excuse. It's actually a good explanation. Yeah, you know, we want explanations. Like, there. There's a distinct line between explanation and excuse. The ref thing, taking three answers out of five or six that you were asked questions that you were asked to turn it into. The refs didn't give me the calls.

[Tom Westerholm]

That.

[John Corrales]

That is the excuse that, you know, one. One mention, like you said, okay. But then it's like, again, all right, we get it. Yeah, we get it. Jalen, you didn't get the calls you were expecting. So, like, so what? Now you open yourself up to people like me being like, so what? That didn't stop you from getting into position to stop a fast break in the fourth quarter. That didn't get you into position or out of position or when Sam Houser was calling for a switch. You were in a zone and you just didn't go where you were supposed to go. It just doesn't excuse you for these other things. And if. If the refs being in your head is a problem, then I'm sorry, you. You can't. You know, we talk about what holds him back from being an mvp. Well, well, you know, like, you got. This is where you got to play through it, like, have a 40 point game, have it win the game, come up clutch, finish this thing off and win that game. And then you go say, hey, you know what? By the way, the refs. So that's why we're here. That's why we're talking about this. I still think Jalen is a legitimate MVP candidate. I still think having an amazing season. I still think Jalen is absolutely. He should stay. And it's like him and Jayson Tatum and that they have a strong chance of winning a championship. None of my opinions about Jalen change at all. But if you're gonna do this, then you got to be ready for the backlash. That's. That's the only thing I'm saying about Jalen when it comes to this. There were positives, though. There were other positives. Anthony Simons. We should be talking more about Anthony Simons. So let's talk more about Anthony Simons when we come back.

[Tom Westerholm]

You brought me on.

[John Corrales]

Always good, always good to talk to Tom about Anthony Simons. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. And hey, it's the Friday show, which means Friday before the game, it's NBA Happy hour on FanDuel. Go check it out. You're going to get all sorts of boosts, bonuses, surprises between 6 and 7:30 Eastern. Open up the app right before the games start. Or actually with the Celtics, it's seven o' clock game so you get a little extra bonus during the game. So check it out. Every Friday from 6 to 7:30 NBA happy hour. Timing is perfect right before the weekend starts. Gets you a little extra energy there at on FanDuel. Now when you open up the FanDuel app, they're going to ask you to set a limit, set a budget. Please do that so you can gamble responsibly, have some fun with it, but don't go overboard. Whatever you can afford to lose in case you do hit a cold streak, that's what you should put in as your budget. Then you can go and log in and have some fun every Friday from 6 to 7:30 at the NBA Happy hour. Little basketball, a little NBA action, a whole lot of Friday for Energy om FanDuel, the official sportsbook partner of the NBA. Locked on.

[Tom Westerholm]

Listeners asked for more and now you can get it with the Everydayer club. For just $5 a month, you'll get every episode ad free plus access to our members only. Discord exclusive audio from Locked on Sports today and other perks you won't find anywhere else. If you never miss a show, this is the next step. Join the Everydayer club [e-mail] everydayer club club or visit the link in the show notes. That's lockedonpodcast.com everydayerclub part of the Locked on podcast network. Your team every day.

[John Corrales]

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics the number one Celtics podcast on the planet. On the number one sports podcast network on the planet. That's the lockdown podcast network. Number one sports podcast network. It's incredible. It's all thanks to you, the everydayer people with me every Monday through Friday. I can't thank you all enough for being regulars, for being with me, agree with me, disagree with me, that's fine. But we're, we're here, we're having our conversations and they're coming from an Honest place. And I think that's why people like to enjoy the show on a Monday through Friday basis. So thank you. Let's get back to the conversation coming out of that Denver game, Anthony Simons. I mentioned this on the podcast last night at Postgame where I feel like Simons is definitely more comfortable here. I, I brought up a couple of times that his locker was empty weirdly, to start the season. He's like now just a normal locker. He's just a normal NBA player with, you know, sneakers and all that stuff. I'm like, okay, maybe he's feeling more comfortable. It makes me wonder what Brad Stevens has said to him. I think, I think it's, I think it would be smart. We've talked about it. To keep him around.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Unless a no brainer deal comes up. And I think, I think maybe that message is coming, coming across. He's more comfortable and we're seeing a much more comfortable Anthony Simons now.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, it makes me feel a little bad for him that now we're seeing more Zubotz rumors, right. Like, where it's like, ah, come on, come on, let him cook. Let him live. Just let him be a little bit. I mean, listen, I'm, I'm on record as a big Anthony Simons guy. I, I, I, I, listen, this is what I wanted to see from him, you know, like this, this level of like, obviously, you know, coming off the bench, not coming off the bench, whatever it is, but just this level of comfort, this level of like, explosive scoring ability right where, where it's like, if he hits one, it's like, oh, boy, buckle up. This could get, this could get good. But more importantly, and this has almost nothing to do with basketball because you could also say this about one of the least popular players in Celtics history. The way he plays is so smooth and so aesthetically pleasing. Like, I just love watching him hoop. And I think it's one of the things that I've kind of learned about myself as I've gotten older is like, as my body gets less mobile, I start to really respect the guys who can do all kinds of, like, crazy stuff and who just play the game in this smooth, fluid way. He, he's, he's crafty, but also like, he's got this, this fluidity about the way that he gets into the paint, the way he creates shots. It's, it's really impressive to me the way that, like, he can get the ball at the top of the key. With four seconds left on the shot clock, everybody knows what he's going to do. He doesn't have time to get past the center, but he can still hit him with the, the step back, still create enough space, still get a shot off with like lightning quick, just, you know, get that thing up in the air and headed toward the rim. There's very little you can do about it. That's, that's not an easy skill.

[John Corrales]

That's.

[Tom Westerholm]

And it's a very useful one because yeah, sometimes your offense is going to break down and sometimes you do have to get out. You have to create something and you've got four seconds to do it. You got a guy like an Simons. You've got a guy who can do that. I, I don't know, man. I, I is the, the positives and the negatives are all very out there. They're very negative or they're very nakedly out there. Right. You know what you're getting with Anthony Simons?

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

I just love watching the guy who, it's, it's, it's, it's a pleasure to watch a guy like that play basketball.

[John Corrales]

He is like, he, he knows exactly how to set up a defender and that, that's what, that's what a lot of this is.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's.

[John Corrales]

Do you, how do you set the defender up? So even though they know you like to do a certain thing, you still do it anyway because they have to respect a drive, they have to respect this move. They have to respect a couple of different things for different players. And so just, just for knowing as an offensive player that you can, you always have a 1 second head start because they have to react to what you, when you do a step back, they have to, the defender has to be like, oh, stop. Oh go back. So you always have that second to create your space and when you've got that step back down and you've mastered that shot and they have to respect other things that you do. That's just, that's what makes great players great and great scorers great. And know maybe he's a, you know, a great scorer and not a great overall quote unquote player, but he's, he is like when the whole point of the game is to put, put the ball in the basket and he puts the ball in the basket, that this is why the, the concept of keeping him at a mid level deal if they can is so tantalizing to me because he, I'm not opposed to the original plan. Right. If, if Zubot comes available then great, then sorry. Simon's like, he's played his Way into a position where, you know what Simon's for. Zoo. You know, Simons could be a good part of whatever we're doing. And. And great. You know, we'll watch you. We'll watch you after the Celtics, you know, for the first half before we fall asleep. But you can't get a. A score of his level anywhere else. The Celtics do not have the financial capability to go get an Anthony Simons type.

[Tom Westerholm]

Correct.

[John Corrales]

So you have them. You have his bird rights. You can sign him to whatever. Theoretically. So if you can get him at that space at the. You know, he's. He seems comfortable here now. He. He gets the role. He gets the teammates, he gets the coaches. Well, that's. I like that idea. Jalen and Jason with. However the team is constructed, and Simon's coming in off the bench playing with one of those two guys.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Oh, my God.

[Tom Westerholm]

And, like, the amount of buckets you can get with Jalen, Jason Simons and. And Pritchard. And then, by the way, you've got one of the. One of the genuine, smartest players in the NBA in Derrick White out there also. I don't know how logical this is, but this does kind of transition us into one of the other role players we wanted to talk about. Brad Stevens can just pick out. Just go to the bargain bin and get bigs, man. Like, you don't. What do you. You got to go out. You got to spend a bunch of whatever to get Zubot. Just. Just get that guy. Have Brad Stevens pick one out of the G League, have your development team that apparently can just turn whatever big man they get their hands on into gold and then the bucket getter. Because like you said, bucket getters like Anthony Simons are not. They don't grow on trees. You don't just get them. You certainly don't get them out of the G League. You know what I mean? Where I was like, I mean, yeah. I mean, the Celtics development staff with Bigs, like, they. They seem to have something figured out, man, because, like, Kate has been great. Kata was awesome yesterday. And Kata was the guy that everybody was like, the Celt, us included. When I say everybody, I mean. I very much mean us. Everybody was like, oh, yeah, you're going into the. You're going into an NBA season with Mimi Keda as you're starting big. And the Celtics were like, yeah, we got it. And it was like, all right. Bet we were wrong. My bad. You guys can just turn whatever Big into, you know, Midas. Touch him. And there you are.

[John Corrales]

I. I personally do not recall saying not anything negative ever. I don't think you've long been.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, him, Joel and be Trey Young. Just guys that you've always been. Very high.

[John Corrales]

Always. Now listen. Now listen. I. I would. I never would never put neish k into that class of. No, I legitimately didn't. You know what?

[Tom Westerholm]

What?

[John Corrales]

I'll explain the CADA thing when we come back because this is going to be a. We'll talk about when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by BetterHelp. As we roll into the new year, there's a lot of pressure to chase a new you. No, we do not want a new you. It's not about reinvention. It's about feeling a little less weighed down. Get to the best you. You don't have to recreate anything. What's holding you back? Maybe an outside perspective can help you get a little bit better idea of your emotions, your motivations, your relationships. BetterHelp can be a great place to start for that. Because their therapists are fully licensed in the United States and work under a strict code of conduct, they help match you with a therapist based on your needs and preferences. So you're not doing all of that legwork on your own. And that's the toughest part about finding a good therapist is, number one, all of the legwork to find somebody, and number two, finding that person and hoping that it's the right fit. With BetterHelp, if that person isn't the right fit, you can switch to somebody else from their tailored recommendations at any time. BetterHelp has served over 5 million people with more than 30,000 therapists, and live sessions average about 4.9 out of 5 ratings across more than 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Lockdown MBA that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com LockedOnNBA so everyone's deploying AI agents now, right?

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[John Corrales]

Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Every day you want to enhance your experience, Join the everyday club by doing that. By going to lockdown celtics.com supercast.com you get to get ad free audio so no ads in the in the everyday club. You also get access to our Discord server merchandise drops and more. Five bucks a month or if you want to pay the whole year up front, it's 50 bucks for the year. Get that to pay that to get to the everydays club. Lockdown celtics.supercast.com all right Tom, the Mishkada just just to for people who are new to oh John, why did you hate Namishkada? I never hated. I still think he has limitations. I still don't think that he's. I don't think he's a starting. I don't think he's a starting center. Like if he's your starter in the NBA finals, I still have questions about like sure how how that's going to go mostly because the limitations that he has I think can be picked on by a good coach with seven games to game plan and I just don't think that he allows for a lot of that versatility. Now that doesn't mean he can't play in an NBA finals. I think he can. I think he's gonna be, you know, I think he's a better backup. But that does not take away from he's been great. He has learned a lot. He has gotten better. And I also want to say this. I've seen this about Jaylen Brown. I've seen this floating out there. I see this about Keda. The one thing that just bugs me to no end is, well, he's always been like this. You're just the. That didn't see it. But no, you know what? That's actually disrespectful. Not to me, I don't care. But it's disrespectful to the player who actually did improve, who worked and got better and reached new heights. Like, if you're just sitting there being like, you're telling me that these people, these players, that Jaylen Brown has always been like this and he has never improved once, then what the hell is he doing in the summer? Why is he spending all that time underwater? You're telling me that Namish K hasn't improved at all. I just didn't see it. No, he has improved a ton. And maybe you had confidence that he would improve and get better and all of that stuff, but he has gotten better. He has worked very hard to prove people like me wrong. And I have no problem saying he's proven me wrong, but it's because he has gotten better. And I think that you, by saying that, it gives him the proper respect for, like, the work that he's put in. He has put in the work. He's figured out screens, he's figured out how to get in and out of screens better. He's. He's playable. He's switchable, you know, to some degree. And so, yes, he still has limitations. Of course he does. But I want to make sure that he gets the full credit for the work, the effort, learning and growing, which he has.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, you know, once you get to the NBA, it's like everybody. I think you're right. It is far more disrespectful to be like, this guy was always this good. Because the truth about getting to the NBA is everybody's got crazy, you know, physical abilities by the time they get to the NBA. It's like, that doesn't make you special. Like, Nimi Caters, like potential was not what made him special at the start. What made it, what has made him a starting quality set, at least regular season starting quality center in the NBA is the work, is. This is the time and energy and focused attention that he has put in. That. That's what did it. And that's. That's really hard to do. Like, that's, that's a lot harder than having just natural characteristics that, that, that, that make you an NBA player. It's like, no, to, to, to get better, to improve to this degree is. That requires the thing that is worth praising, which is why we're here saying, you know, Imikeda had 20 rebounds yesterday. That's very impressive. He was really good yesterday. 20 minutes or 20 rebounds in 25 minutes. Like, that's, that is. It's a pretty ridiculous total. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm right there with you. I think that's, I think that's the right way to look at these guys improving. It's, it's a. Everybody, everybody has the potential and it just comes down to who's gonna like. You can't confidently sit here and say, this guy is for sure going to be good. This guy's for sure. Not because we don't know what's going on inside these guys heads. Like, we don't know. We don't know what level of, of work they're going to put in. Only they know it. And then to some degree, the team seems to be able to, you know, kind of pick out like, this guy's got something. This guy's got a level of, of attention to detail, a level of work ethic that we want to tease out. We want to see what he can do with it. And I mean, you know, all last season all we heard was Joe Maula talking about Keita saying, like, he's got the potential, he's just got to put in the work. He's got the potential. He's just got to put in the work. And that's what happened. Like, Joe Missoula saw it. The Celtics apparently saw it. Keda himself had to see the vision too, and had to embrace that vision and go get it and you know, genuinely huge. Good for him for doing that. That's really impressive.

[John Corrales]

All right, let's, let's, let's get to another player that I love greatly. It's Trey Young. So here's what we're going to do. We're at the 30 minute mark of the podcast. We'll talk, we'll talk. Trey Young trade for a couple minutes here. Then we're going to go into a bonus bonus segment that will be YouTube only. YouTube exclusive. So if you're listening and you want to hear me, like, trash, Trey Young and all that stuff, we'll do a little bit of it now. Then we're going to carry it over to YouTube so you can do I have to watch that segment on YouTube a little bit later on. So let's just start with this. We were right. We've Been right. This is. I'm probably gonna do the thing that I always like that I just said I don't like. But it's a bit of vindication for, you know, things that I've been called a hater for so long. And I've carried this over into certain, like, shtick levels for sure. Yeah, I've definitely played up the disdain for what Trey Young has been, but also I've been right. I've, you know, we. We have been right because you're right there with me.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right there with you this whole time. Yep.

[John Corrales]

Yep. The Getting traded at 27 years old for 34 year old CJ McCollum, Corey Kispert and Zero Picks. Zero Picks. No Picks, no swaps, no nothing. Just, hey, yeah, you know What? I'll take C.J. mcCollum and Corey Kispert and we'll call it a day. Mikhail Bridges went for six first round picks. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And it's different. You can't always compare this stuff.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

But initial reaction is, Trey, like what a smack in the face. You. You said, fine, you know what? I will go, I'll get out, I'll get traded, no problem. You don't want me, I'm out. And then the Wizards are the only team is like, oh, right, yeah, no problem.

[Tom Westerholm]

You trade me, I'll go to. I'll go to the Wolves, I'll go to the Nets. I don't even care. And the Wolves and Nuts are like, will you?

[John Corrales]

Nah. We're flattered. We're flattered, Trey.

[Tom Westerholm]

Thank you, Trey. Thank you.

[John Corrales]

Thank you, Trey, so much. That means so much to us that you would consider us. We're flattered. We're in a relationship already taken.

[Tom Westerholm]

And if it wasn't, if I wasn't in a relationship, maybe, you know, maybe we could get coffee.

[John Corrales]

But like, yeah, you know how it is. But oh my God, but thank you. And then the Wizards are sitting there with like one flower, that drooping daisy like that still has the roots at the bottom. Like, we'll take you. So you get that smack in the face and that's like, all right, well, how many picks did I go for? Because you know, these guys measure themselves, you know, by how many picks you get traded for. And it's like, oh, none, None. I'm gonna take the 34 year old guy who's still good. Like Cesar McCollum's still good. But he's okay. He's fine. He's still good. And Corey Kispert, who's you Know, can hit some shots on the wing. Like, he'll be a nice bench player. Nice, like, role player for the Hawks, but, like, come on. Come on. So right away, it's like, just Trey Young has to be sitting there, like, so this is where. What it's come to. This is how it. Like, at 27 years old, you got to go to Washington and rebuild everything. So I kind of hope that he takes this path to redemption that's right there in front of him. There's, like, this whole thing right there where I. I am telling everybody I'm willing to come around on Trey Young if he says, you know what? This was a real. Real, you know, kick below the belt. I realized some things about how I'd carried myself. I realized some things about, you know, how I've been, and I rededicated myself. I'm. I'm happy to stay in Washington and work something out and be part of a winning situation. And if he has that kind of thing, I'd be like, okay, all right. I'm open to it. Because we all love a redemption story. So as much as I'm. Ha ha, it's not. I don't actually have a personal vendetta against Trey Young. I just have hated how he's carried himself. If he wants to open himself up to that, I'm more than willing to come around on him.

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Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, the only thing I'll. I'll say, I assume, before we switch over, is just like, honestly, man, I saw this come across, and I was like, that's. I'm weary of war. This is depressing. Like, it's like, you know, it's like that weird feeling of, like, I. I mean, obviously we were right, you know, like, obviously we were like, this was an easy one. This was a layup. Like, not. Not. Not thinking that Trey Young was not a winning player was like. I mean, it was pretty obvious if you watched. If you. If you really, like, took the time to be, like, to.

[John Corrales]

To.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't know, like, it wasn't. It wasn't some kind of mystery. It wasn't hard. He wasn't a winning player. And, like, I don't. You know, he does. He does some things well, you know, and I'm. I would love to. I like basketball, man. I don't want to. I don't want to be, like. I don't want to just be a hater all the time.

[John Corrales]

Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't want to be. That's not fun. It's not fun to be a hater. It's fun to watch good basketball. And like, Trey Young hasn't been playing good basketball for a while. So, like, when I watch Trey Young, I'm like, it wouldn't be, especially when people are like, hey, like, you know, Trey Young's an all star. Trey Young's a superstar. It's like, no, he's not. He's just not. He hasn't been good for a while. He hasn't made his team better in any meaningful way in a while anyway. I, I and then this, you know, this is to some degree, this is like, you know, just to some degree. It's just bad timing for the Hawks. It's, you know, hitting the market with your star player at the worst possible time to hit the market. It's partly that, but it's also a validation of everything that you and I have been saying for five years at this point. Like, we have not been to a young guys for a while and we were right.

[John Corrales]

All right, this is a good point to carry the conversation over. We're going to continue the Trade Young conversation. This is more because I, I think the CBA had a big, big role in this. And I'll explain what I'm talking about in the bonus we're going to save it. YouTube exclusive bonus content on that that will post separately from the show. So right now, Tom, thank you very much. Hopping on. Appreciate you, Tom. Appreciate all of you listening, watching, being every day, is being with me every Monday through Friday. Again, bonus podcast coming up. They play Toronto and San Antonio Friday, Saturday. I will be there at those games. I will have bonus podcasts after those games, so make sure you're subscribed. Watch the show on YouTube if you'd like and then share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team. Every day. We've all been there.

[Tom Westerholm]

You hold on to a coupon but.

[John Corrales]

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