Jayson Tatum's Return Sparks TURBULENCE for Boston Celtics and Joe Mazzulla?

Summary

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Locked On Celtics Podcast

Episode: Jayson Tatum's Return Sparks TURBULENCE for Boston Celtics and Joe Mazzulla?

Host: John Karalis | Guest: Tom Westerholm

Date: March 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Jayson Tatum's highly anticipated return to the Boston Celtics after a long injury absence. Host John Karalis and recurring guest Tom Westerholm discuss the "turbulence" the team is experiencing—both on the court and in the media—since Tatum's return. The conversation analyzes expectations, locker room dynamics, media narratives, and the balance between Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown as central stars. Throughout, the hosts stress patience, perspective, and the importance of weathering this inevitable adjustment period as the team works towards playoff strength.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. "No Problem"—This Is Expected (06:25)

• Return turbulence was inevitable. Both hosts reiterate repeatedly that integrating a star back from injury—especially someone as pivotal as Tatum—was always going to cause some short-term disruption.
• Role redefinition, not a red flag: Minutes and touches for role players are naturally shifting. Shots aren't falling, some rotations look clunky, but that's not unexpected.
• Short sequence of rough games: The Celtics had one disappointing loss to Minnesota and an ugly win, but the hosts insist fans should not overreact or let "Stans" of Brown/Tatum drive the narrative.
• Quote — John Karalis:

  "This is not a surprise. This is not—Oh my God, what's happening to the Celtics. This is where the Celtics should be." (05:43)

2. Media Noise vs. Team Reality (07:00–10:30)

• Social media and bias: Tom and John stress ignoring divisive fan narratives and acknowledging how rare seamless seasons are at the NBA level.
• Enjoy the ride: Celtics fans have been spoiled by how smooth this season went so far; reality was bound to set in.
• Quote — Tom Westerholm:

  "Seamless times don't last forever... if there was something that was going to cause some turbulence, that was going to be the return of Jayson Tatum." (07:03–08:37)

3. Missed Opportunities & Missoula's Role (09:57–12:16)

• Rotation challenges: Tatum was on a minutes restriction, forcing Joe Mazzulla into less-than-ideal lineups. Fans must understand you can't overplay an injured star in March.
• No reason for panic or blame: The loss was frustrating, but the process was sound.
• Quote — John Karalis:

  "You are not in any way, shape, or form going to play Jayson Tatum above a minute’s restriction in a March game against the Timberwolves, seeding be damned. That’s just... it would be the worst." (11:04)

4. Balancing Star Power & Identity (13:05–20:09)

• The team had found a groove: Jaylen Brown thrived as the lead option; Tatum's return naturally disrupts that rhythm.
• Historical parallels: The return of Gordon Hayward, and how poorly the locker room handled it, is cited as a cautionary tale—not a direct comparison.
• Championship perspective: For the Celtics to reach their ceiling, both Tatum and Brown must be maximized. A “Jalen and the overachievers” model isn’t title-proof.
• Quote — John Karalis:

  “It's been a great season... But you still need that other option because in the playoffs, if you don't have Tatum, they'll just blitz the bejesus out of Jalen... and it's just not gonna happen.” (16:19)

5. Comparing This Team to Past Celtics Teams (21:00–24:23)

• Locker room growth: The hosts highlight maturity and strength of this Celtics group compared to prior iterations—no Hayward/Rozier drama.
• NBA arms race: The path to winning a title requires “overwhelming” talent to match the league’s depth.
• Quote — Tom Westerholm:

  "To win a championship, you have to be overwhelming... That's one of the biggest reasons the Celtics won in 2024—because they were an overwhelming basketball team." (21:00–22:56)

6. Why You Need Both Tatum and Brown at Full Strength (24:23–26:21)

• Championship calculus: Without Tatum, this is a good-to-great team, but not one likely to win four playoff series.
• Pick-and-roll possibilities: Discussing how versatile and “overwhelming” the offense looks when both stars are healthy and clicking.

7. Locker Room Frustrations? Reading the Signals (29:35–38:33)

• Tracy McGrady’s Postgame Comments:
  McGrady (noted as a close confidant of Brown) questioned the team’s rhythm and hinted at possible internal frustration over returning to an old play style.
• Connecting the dots: John raises the point that TMac’s remarks may echo what Brown is feeling, whether or not it comes from direct communication—a completely natural reaction.
• Devil’s advocate: Tom speculates it might also be a well-informed guess, with TMac championing Brown’s narrative given their relationship.
• Quote — John Karalis:

  “When you know TMac is Jalen’s guy, and now TMac is talking about frustration in the locker room, it’s hard not to draw that line and try to connect those dots...” (31:00–32:01)

8. Perspective & Moving Forward (38:33–41:53)

• Empathy for the returning star: John notes, “If the situation was reversed...what would you want to do?” Emphasizing that it’s natural for the returning injured player to want to reclaim his role.
• It isn't that bumpy: Challenges are minor compared to what could have happened, and the team still has time to right the ship before the playoffs.
• One thing left to prove: The only hurdle is sticking together and demonstrating they can withstand this choppy stretch with unity.
• Quote — John Karalis:

  “Now there’s one more thing to prove... that you guys can all get through this and get out on the other side and be a quality playoff team. That’s the only thing left.” (40:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Karalis:

  "This is not a Jalen vs. Jason podcast necessarily. Okay. But the outside noise... Celtics lost to Minnesota. Everyone wants to blame, blame, blame, blame..." (04:34)

• Tom Westerholm:

  "Measured takes are not going to be the first thing to crop up on your social media. That’s not how any of this works." (20:08)

• John Karalis:

  "Don't listen to whatever media people are out there. I know. I’m one of the media people. I’m telling you, don’t listen to us." (19:55)

• Tom Westerholm (closing):

  "To the comment section, your boos mean nothing to me. I see what makes you cheer." (41:53)

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41 | Show opens, John Corrales introduces episode theme | | 03:07 | Discussion: Integrating Tatum, why turbulence is normal | | 06:25 | “No Problem” segment: Why this rough patch is expected | | 09:57 | Tatum’s minutes restriction and Joe Mazzulla’s coaching decisions | | 13:05 | How Tatum’s return affects identity and team chemistry | | 21:00 | Comparing locker room dynamics to Hayward/Kyrie era, need for overwhelming talent| | 24:23 | Why you need Tatum and Brown healthy for a true title run | | 29:35 | Tracy McGrady’s quotes; possible Jalen frustration | | 36:49 | Analyzing whether TMac is reflecting Jalen’s view or his own narrative | | 38:33 | Flipping the scenario: empathy for Tatum’s return | | 41:53 | Final thoughts & call to unity as playoff prep begins |

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Tone & Closing Advice

The hosts maintain a level-headed, reassuring tone, urging both the locker room and fan base to trust the process, ignore social media overreactions, and keep sight of the bigger picture—winning another championship. The episode ends with light-hearted banter and gratitude for the audience, reinforcing the community feel of the Locked On Celtics experience.

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Summary produced for listeners seeking a full, nuanced grasp of both on-court Xs and Os and off-court dynamics as the Celtics shape up for their playoff push with a newly healthy Jayson Tatum in the fold.

Transcript

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[John Corrales]

Now on the Locked On Celtics podcast, people suddenly seem down on Jayson Tatum's return. Is it really going as bad as some people say? Lockdown Celtics Pot Home of the winners. And welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics Podcast. I'm John Corrales. Today we're getting into the Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Jason is back. And and after just one loss, one loss and one bad kind of ugly win, all of a sudden people start sharpening their knives and being like, oh this, this return is disruptive. And here's this and here's that. And that's the big topic that's going out there today. And so that's what we're going to get into. That's going to be all three segments. That's we're just going to have a free flowing conversation. But all of this, when I say we, I mean me and Tom Westerholm.

[Tom Westerholm]

What up?

[John Corrales]

What's going on, Tom?

[Tom Westerholm]

Not much, man. Gray boys out Here today.

[John Corrales]

That's right. That's right. Competing brands, competing. Competing superstars, Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, it is a. It is a mark of. Of some real hostility within the locker room, within the locked on Celtics locker room here. So.

[John Corrales]

All right, Jason is back. He's playing up and down, up and down return. Right. This is to be expected. Okay, so let's just start with this.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

This is not unexpected. We have all said, not just us, not just me, other people. Everybody has said it's going to be a little, kind of like turbulence here when Jason comes back. You're working. You're not just working in a player from. From injury. If this had happened to Derek White, then it would be a little bit different because Derek White's role is pretty well defined and.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, yeah, if Derek. If Derek White had missed the season, the Celtics would be oh and 65 at this point.

[John Corrales]

That's right. Exactly. So we know exactly where they would be. It happened. Jason Tatum, he's been your number one superstar. Jalen Brown has always. Now this is where we get into the. Jalen Brown has always said, I could be the number one guy. He literally just said this the other day. I've always want proved. I've always thought that I could prove that I was worthy of this or some words like this, that I could do this if given the opportunity. Now he's been given the opportunity. He's proven it. And he's like, okay, now it's. Now it's up to bet. Now we're playing basketball. We got it. We got a job to do. As far as I was concerned, heading into this last game against Minnesota, everybody's on the same page. Jaylen Brown had said, we're on the same page everything. And I still believe in general that this is the case. This is not a Jalen vs. Jason podcast necessarily. Okay. But okay, The. The outside noise and Paul Pierce kind of mentioned this on whatever he does 10 million different podcasting. He. He said something into a microphone today that said, basically, these guys, Jalen, Jason put their heads down and don't pay attention to anything that's being said. Media, social media, anything like that, because a lot of noise is going to be out there. Celtics lost to Minnesota. Everybody thought they should beat Minnesota. No Anthony Edwards. So this goes down as a bad loss. You're up by 15. You're up by nine in the third quarter. You. He gave up a 160 run in the fourth quarter. It looked bad in the fourth quarter. And Jalen and Jason each, neither of them could save. So now the Jalen stands, the Jason stands. They're out in full force because now everybody wants to blame, blame, blame, blame, blame. The Celtics are a half game now ahead of New York, and it looks like there's a real risk of them falling. We just did a podcast, Tom, about them potentially going to first, and now there's a real risk of them falling to third by the end of the week.

[Tom Westerholm]

Don't listen to anything we say about the standings because we. About the standings. I don't think we've gotten anything right all year.

[John Corrales]

So. But. So we. We knew heading in. So I just want to start the podcast with this just blanket statement. This is exactly where the Celtics should be right now. This is not a surprise. This is not. Oh, my God, what's happening to the Celtics. This is where the Celtics should be. A little bit of a struggle, a little bit of a shooting issue. Maybe a couple of the role players struggling for, you know, because their. Their minutes have been redefined a little bit. Maybe a couple guys have gone into a little bit of a slump. No problem. No problem. Right? So first segment here is the no problem segment.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Right. Because this is. Okay, this was. There was always going to be turbulence on this part of the flight. We're hitting the turbulence. Don't start thinking like, oh, my God, why do. Why are. Why is the plane shaking?

[Tom Westerholm]

I think you're so. You're exactly right. And I think you identified one of the biggest problems, which is just like, first of all, let's just ignore the stands. Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them, ignore them. People who are fans of each one of these guys are going to be fans of each one of these guys. And that's. And that's fine. Be a fan of a player. Be a fan of a team. Like what? However you want to experience basketball, fine.

[John Corrales]

But not just the fan of one, but also fan of one hates the other.

[Tom Westerholm]

Correct? Correct. That's. Throw that whole thing out. Right? Like, that's not helpful. It's not going to. It's not going to help you with. Get a better understanding of this team in any way. Right. So just point a. Right. I think it's really important to remember that this team has had such a seamless season that can't continue forever. When you and I talk, we. I don't know how many times we've said this. I know we've both written columns about this at least once, maybe twice in the last year. When we tell you to appreciate this team, we're not just saying it to take up Airspace. It's. No, these are fun times. And enjoy them because this is a time that should be remembered and enjoyed. Same way that, like Isaiah Thomas against the Wizards should be bottled up and enjoyed because it's, you know, things happen in sports and you get to witness them. And that's the whole fun of this. Right? That's. That is. That is what this is all about, is to enjoy those times that, like, seamless times don't last forever. And if there was ever something that was going to sandpaper this up and make it. Well, no, actually the opposite of sandpaper it up. That was going to, like, make it rough, make it. Make it. Make it bumpy, make it kind of like, like you said, if there was something that was going to. Caused some airflow and caused some turbulence, that that was going to be the return of Jason Tatum. That was the ultimate opportunity for there to be some turbulence. And everybody called it beforehand, and it was. It was kind of like what we were. We were talking about this the other day. We didn't know exactly what 80% Jayson Tatum would look like. We didn't know.

[John Corrales]

You.

[Tom Westerholm]

You can't know until you see it. You can know that it is going to be a version of an elite basketball player who has some of his skills, but not all of them. But you kind of can't predict exactly what it's going to look like. You also can't exactly predict what it's going to look like if the Celtics suddenly start to hit rough patches. This is kind of what it looked. This is what it looks like. This is exactly it. This is a guy trying to work himself back in, trying to work out the kinks, trying to figure out, okay, I can do this stuff. Okay, interesting. This is how I've always played. Should I maybe. Let me. Let me try this a little bit. Let me try to see if this works. That doesn't work. And hey, you know what? It looks ugly against the Grizzlies. It looks pretty ugly against the Timberwolves. Like, yeah, that's. That is. I, like, I cannot emphasize enough the extent to which that is to be expected. Right. This is exactly what's supposed to happen. It's exactly what everybody predicted would happen, and it is not cause for alarm yet. Like that of all the stuff, like all the stuff that we're going to talk about and all the, all the, you know, the concerns that might be out there, the concern should not be that the Celtics have looked rough so far, because that is exactly what everybody expected to happen and what everybody could have predicted would happen.

[John Corrales]

Listen, the, the Celtics were up by 15 in this game. They were up by nine in the third quarter, and Tatum looked good in the third quarter. They were heading into the fourth. You had the, the typical, you know, Dan Greenberg, win the quarter, win the game tweet that went out. It was like the, that, that they were right there. They're right there now. Tatum, not himself. And also Tatum, minutes restriction. So Joe Missoula is playing different. Different lineups, different minutes. Tatum came out with 13 points with a few minutes to go in the third because he's on a minutes restriction and you need him. You wanted him in the game to be able to finish the fourth quarter. Do you think Joe really wanted to take Tatum out in the third quarter when he was going? No, but if you have a.

[Tom Westerholm]

To have a Jalen lineup without Jaylen and without Jason for as long as he did.

[John Corrales]

No, that's not what he wanted.

[Tom Westerholm]

No.

[John Corrales]

But the minutes. You cannot, you're not in any way shape or form going to play Jason Tatum above a minute's restriction in a March game against the Timberwolves, seating be damned. That's just. It would be the worst. I would have come onto this podcast if they played him 35 minutes and they say, oh, you know, I would have come on here and been like, fire Joe Missoula for that. Like you. That's like, that's a, That's a strike, man. That's a strike against you for, for being that egregiously in, you know, incompetent and, and taking a risk where you shouldn't have. And he didn't. Of course he didn't do that because he's not getting worked up just thinking about it. I'm getting great. And it's a fictional scenario, but I'm getting worked up because people are like, oh, they're. They're getting into that, that, that space. Like, why didn't he do this? Like, because Jason's played less than 10 games coming back and by the way, looking amazing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

For what, what he's doing. Yeah, amazing. Even though he's not shooting well and even though he's short arming layups still, you know, it's still. You're right there. I can see it.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, that's. I, I think that's so important. I don't want to just breeze by that either. I think that's so important because, like, progress is not linear. Like, this is not going to be a linear process where he starts here and just goes in a straight line. Up to here. That's not how this is going to work. We're going to see bad shots. We're going to see him put a ball on the front of the rim and just kind of not have the legs to get it over the rim. But then we're also going to see him sweep right by Rudy Gobert, get to the lane, get under to the other side of the rim and finish on the other side. Because he's Jason Tatum. Like, you're going to have to take the good with the bad and you're going to have to just kind of like let those things live in balance. That's, that's where we're at.

[John Corrales]

And this is, this gets us to the next segment here because the balance of Jason's got to be Jason. But the Celtics had a thing that they were doing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

And now it's being interrupted. It's, I think, what Jason was always afraid of. And here we are.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

So we'll get to that in just a second. Today's show is brought to you by Indeed. You have a job to fill. Indeed has the tools to help you fill it. Without you just hoping that somebody will come along to fill that spot. Basketball teams don't just hope when they've got an open roster spot that somebody is coming, coming along to help them. They got a bunch of boxes that need to be checked. So do you. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps you reach the people who actually fit what you're looking for. Their skills, experience, location. So you're not just hoping you're actually interviewing in this minute that I'm talking to you. Companies like yours will make 27 hires on Indeed according to Indeed Data Worldwide. Spend less time searching, more time interviewing with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. That's less stress for you. You're spending less time on this and you're getting more results. Listeners of the show, that's you will get $75 in sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Go to Indeed.com podcast right now. Let them know that we sent you there. And that's going to help us help me. Indeed.com podcast need to hire. This is a job. Terms and conditions apply. This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Today's show, also brought to you by FanDuel. The tournament is here, one of the best times of the year. There's brackets being busted, buzzer beaters, upsets, non stop action from the opening tip to the final cut down of those nets. Right now, FanDuel is giving you A chance to stay in all the action all tournament long. You get up to $300 back in bonus bets every day for 10 days. It's 10 chances to stay involved throughout the entire tournament. You can mix it up however you want, game picks, futures or even same game parlays for bigger potential payouts. Good luck to you because it's been a wild tournament already and, but it's, this is the perfect way to stay involved because there's always something new, different matchups, new storylines every day. Go to FanDuel.com to sign up today. Make sure you're using the tools that are available to you there so you can gamble responsibly. Set your limits, set your [e-mail] to get in on the action. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Thank you for being in every day or joining me Monday through Friday. I'm John Corrales. I'm a beat writer covering the Celtics for Celtics on si. Go check out my written work there. I've been covering the Celtics for about 20 years. I've been doing this podcast for 10. Do appreciate you making this your first listen every day. Let's get back to the conversation here with Tom Westerholm. So, Tom, the, the issue here, remember, you're the one who brought it up, brought up the Gordon Hayward thing. When Jason was on whatever podcast he went on and expressed the, the doubts, the concern was like they have an identity. He said flat out, they have an identity. And basically I don't want to mess with that, but inherently you're gonna mess with that. And he kind of is just because he's, he's playing games. This is part of the rehab. This was part of the deal. And it was going to be disruptive. It was always going to be disruptive, just like we just said. But everybody kind of had to be on board and understand, look, this is not, it's, it's not going to go great 100 of the time. Jason is going to try to work within the confines of what we do. Some of the plays and you see him running some of the plays. But also Jason has to do Jason Tatum things and that's going to mean a little bit more ISO, just a little bit more straight pick and roll with him and Keda trying to figure out what can I do, what can't I do? He needs to do that stuff because whether it's this year or next year, you're not winning a championship just based on Jalen and a bunch of overachieving guys. It's been a great season. Jalen has been great. I think he's a first team all NBA guy. But you still need that other option because in the playoffs, if you don't have Tatum, all right, they'll just blitz the bejesus of Jalen and. And dare some of these guys to beat them seven games for four out of seven times. And it's just not gonna happen. Not. Not for an entire play. It's just, you can't rely. Baylor Shireman is not going to win you a championship. Yeah, right. He going to win you a lot of regular season games by being Mr. Hustle Guy. But in a series against two, three of the best teams in the NBA, not against the, you know, Philadelphia 76ers and the, you know, Memphis Grizzlies and all. So, like, to win a title, you

[Tom Westerholm]

probably have to beat the Thunder or the spurs. Like, right, dog. Like, that's. Those are the big boys, you know,

[John Corrales]

you have to beat whoever comes out in the first round. Then the, like the Pistons and the Thunder. Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's probably your path. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Four times out of seven.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corrales]

Right. And teams that they've struggled with the Knicks, they've struggled with the Pistons, and they've struggled. They obviously they. They lost to the Thunder. I shouldn't say struggle, but it was a close game.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

But it's the Thunder. Right. So we got to be clear about this. And this was before Jason came back. They were losing to these teams. Right. This is. Yes, it's disruptive, but you need him. And this was the conversation with Gordon Hayward. Yeah, it's disruptive, but you need him. Back then a bunch of guys in the locker room got upset about this, right?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corrales]

And we don't want that to happen.

[Tom Westerholm]

We were there. They were mad.

[John Corrales]

We were there. The. Terry Rozier was on espn. I, I feel like he was still wearing his sweaty uniform from the last game of the season on espn. That's how fast he got on TV to talk about how his role. He didn't like his role and he was gone.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

I'm not saying any of this is happening. This locker room has been a great locker room. This locker room still remains a good locker room. Yes. I would just caution anybody that may be having some thoughts. You don't want to let those creep in. Paul Pierce was right. Don't listen to whatever media people are out there. I know. I'm one of the media people. I'm telling you, don't listen to us.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Corrales]

Don't listen to the social media. Don't listen to us because we're all paid to express our opinions. I feel like my opinion, your opinion. We're trying to be level headed. Not everybody is.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Corrales]

There's a lot of bad opinions out there and especially on social media. Don't listen, don't let those thoughts enter your head into that locker room because this is where you, this is the one time of the season you all need to be together to get through this rough patch, whatever, however rough a patch it even is.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And I mean, listen to your point, right? There's, you know, as we try to be level headed, that means that we are going to be genuinely a lot quieter than a lot of the other voices. That will come up a lot more easily if you do start listening. Like if you, if you, you know, just kind of, you know, pulled out the. Oh, let's just take a little swing through the, the old social medias here. It's like that measured takes are not going to be the first thing to crop up on your social media. That's not, it's not how, it's not how this works. It's not how any of this works. So. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Does not reward that.

[Tom Westerholm]

The algorithm does not reward that. No. And I think it's, it's, it's, it's going to be really. I think you're right that, that the biggest thing to remember with this team is, is how different this group is than the group that was around Gordon Hayward and was around, you know, Kyrie Irving. Right. Like that was around all these guys, like even setting Kyrie aside because like, who knows where Kyrie's head was at with everything, you know, like this even like the role players around this are just so different than that team was. So that's an encouraging thing for sure at this stage. Right. But yeah, I mean, I just, I agree with you completely that this, this Celtics team needs, you know, the NBA now is. There's so many teams that are so overwhelmingly good. Right. You look at the spurs and it's like, it's not just Wemby, you know, Wemby's the one who makes them, who makes them just like, good Lord, this is hard to deal with. But it's also the fact that de' Aaron Fox is so fast and so good and like some of these guys are young and hungry and talented and they're really good. You know, the Thunder. It's not just that Shay Gildas Alexander is going to be the mvp. It's, it's also the fact that Chet Holmgren is tough. Like, he's a tough defensive player. He shoots threes. They have guys who've been on that bench who are really important, who didn't even play against the Celtics, right? Like, like they're, they have a lot of defensive guys who are really tough. To win a championship, you have to be overwhelming. And that's the reason the Celtics. That's one of the biggest reasons the Celtics won in 2024 is because they were an overwhelming basketball team. That wasn't just, it wasn't just like Jalen and Jason are awesome. It's the fact that like, although they were obviously, it was the fact that everybody on the floor could cook.

[John Corrales]

Luca.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right. It wasn't just those two guys. Any of these guys could. And that mattered a lot because they just, they were just too much for, for the Mavericks. They were too much for all the teams they faced. And it's going to be, it's going to be hard for the Celtics to recreate that. I think it's. It. It just is. But you don't do that without Tatum. You don't do that without fully realized Jason Tatum. You, you get a lot closer. If you get Jason tatum closer to 100% and you still have this version of Jalen Brown, right? That gets you a lot closer to overwhelming. Because this version of Jalen Brown, like you said, this is a first team, all NBA guy to me as well. I would have been willing to like make that argument even kind of before the Cade thing happens. Like, I, I think to me he was an all NBA first team guy. And if you can get Tatum back, then you start to be able to have some conversations about like, man, that starting unit is nasty. And then the guys that they have coming off the bench are Peyton Pritchard and you know, which are, you know, you can start to talk yourself into this being something close to an overwhelming team without Tatum. No, it's, it's. This is an awesome regular season team that's probably got Eastern Conference finals ceiling. If they get it, maybe they get through. Maybe they get through to the finals. But I don't think that team is winning four series. That's. That's just really unlikely to me. If Jason Tatum isn't a star. And that's what they're trying to. Where they're trying to get to now,

[John Corrales]

they're trying to get to. Because when you, you got to make it. So the, the Celtics aren't just relying on one of their, like Derrick White. I love Derrick White. Yeah, but you Know him?

[Tom Westerholm]

Atkinson. But yeah, we love Derrick White, right?

[John Corrales]

We love Derrick White. And, but you can't just say, okay, Derek, you're gonna have to win us. You have to win us every one of these series. Like, that's not who he is. He's not going to go out there and average 30 in a series. You need, what you need is Jason Tatum there. So when you say, okay, we're shutting down Jaylen Brown, okay, I just gave the ball to Jason Tatum. Oh, crap, he's still really good. And then it gets to Derrick White.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right, Right.

[John Corrales]

Derek White.

[Tom Westerholm]

We're shutting down. We're shutting down Jaylen Brown. Like, okay, bet. Going to run a Jason Tatum, Derrick White, pick and roll. Like, okay, golly, like that starts to get overwhelming, right?

[John Corrales]

Because if you don't have that and you get it to Derrick White and he drives, you're going to help off of Ugo Gonzalez in the corner. You're going to help off of Baylor Shireman in the corner, and you're not going to worry about that. But what you're not going to do is help off of Derrick White in the corner. Now Jason's got a lane to the rim and if you do help off with Derrick White to the corner, God help you because he's either going to bury that three or he's going to make the absolute right play, which is probably going to be Jaylen Brown again because everybody has lost him after blitzing him the first time. And he's going to give you a backdoor cut. You're like, oh, right, that was what we were worried about in the first place. That's why Jason Tatum is important. Not because, oh, you just need. He's better than. No, you need the other guy to scare the crap out of the defense to, to, to get everything else. And that's what raises everybody else's game. Tom, there's one thing in all of this level headedness that you ever have like a seed in your tooth and you're like, I can't.

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm a huge popcorn guy. Yes. I have had that often. Yeah, great. Listen, analogy man.

[John Corrales]

Thank you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Perfection.

[John Corrales]

That's what I got. That's what I got right now. And that's coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Quo. You have a phone service that is, you know, your communication's a little messy. Quo is going to help you clean things up. It's spring. This is a great time to clean things up. You don't want missed call scatter texts and no clear threat of who said what. Quo spelled Q O is Q U O Q is a smarter way to run your business. Communication Co is the number one rated business phone system on G2 with over 3000 reviews, trusted by more than 90,000 businesses and lets your entire team share one business number so you never miss a call, a text or an opportunity. You get a one clean thread of call, text and voicemail so the whole team sees the conversation and nothing falls through the cracks. I know as a customer when I've called some service that I use is and I've talked to two different people and they say two different things. I just want to shop for something new. Quo helps you avoid that stuff. The whole team will see what's going on, so make your business feel more organized and responsive. Make this the season that no opportunity and no customer slips away. Try Quo for free and get 20% off your first six [e-mail] lockdown MBA that's quo.com lockdown MBA quo no missed calls, no missed customers. Today's show is also brought to you by Robinhood. What if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robinhood Prediction Markets. It's not you against the house, it's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robinhood Prediction Markets changes the game. It's people moving the action so when the momentum shifts, you can move with it. I always knew the game but never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge. Now I can actually take part live in a market powered by the people. You are no longer just a spectator. Play by play. You decide. Trade every play with Robinhood now available across the U.S. download the Robinhood app now to begin futures and cleared swaps. Trading involves significant risks and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contracts are offered by Robinhood Derivatives llc, a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. You are an everydayer. Why not join the everydayer club for five bucks a month or fifty bucks a year you get ad free audio. So you didn't hear everything I just said. You just skipped right past it all five bucks a month. It's a compatible with all major podcasting apps. You also get access to our Discord server so you get in game chats and all of that good stuff. Check it out. Lockdown celtics.supercast.com lockdownceltics.supercast.com so Tom, I am not Concerned by this.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay. But I'm not concerned. Don't put it in the newspaper that I got concerned.

[John Corrales]

After the game. On NBC, Tracy McGrady talked about how the. The rhythm of the team is off. And I'm not going to read the whole quote. People can find it on. On their Twitter page. But he talked about, you know, are we running the same stuff that we ran before? Are we still on the same page, or are we divided because we're not playing our same game? I'm sure there's a lot of mentality that these guys are going through because of the insertion of JT and then not playing the same basketball that they play individually, not shooting the ball extremely well. They struggle with Memphis. They struggle tonight, you know, against a team that doesn't have their best players. So I'm sure there are some questions. Okay. That's kind of mostly the quote.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And on the surface, it's like, all right, whatever, Team Mac.

[Tom Westerholm]

But he's certainly not the only one saying it. Right. Like it's.

[John Corrales]

It's being said.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

The only thing that gets me here is that I hesitate to bring it up, but TMac is Jalen Brown's guy.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Right. He's. He's Jayla, like one of Jalen's confidants. Jalen has said as much that TMac is. TMac's the guy that convinced him not to ask for a trade years ago.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Right.

[John Corrales]

He said stay there before they won a championship, and he did. So there. They have a relationship. Frankly, I also don't think that T. Mac is breaking down a lot of game film of. Of what the Celtics were before and what the Celtics are after. I'm not saying he's full Shaquille o' Neal and doesn't know who guys names are, but he's. He. I don't think he's. He can tell you exactly what the Celtics ran before and what the difference is right now. I think this comes from somewhere else. My guess, this is just a guess. Is that there is some frustration that's been expressed that. And it may be innocent frustration. Right. Like, man, we've been running a certain thing this whole time, and this is. This is going on and we're not running the same stuff. And I just really wish we could run the same stuff. And it could have been a. And maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be way off base here.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

I'm also going to throw this out there. I could be way off here. And next time I See, Jalen, he could probably. He'll probably yell at me and we'll have it out and whatever. But when, you know, TMac is Jalen's guy and you know that they. They talk, and now tmac is talking about the frustration in the locker room, it's hard not to put, like, draw that line and try to connect those dots and say, gee, I wonder if Jalen has privately expressed a little bit of frustration with this process, which, again, would be totally natural and totally fine to have a moment where you're talking to your confidant and saying, man, we're in such a role. It kind of sucks that we have to go through this now because we're right at the end. I just wish we could just keep it rolling. Like, that's a very natural thing to want to express to somebody. I just hearing it from TMac, I can't help but think there's some of Jalen's words mixed into what T. Mac said.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I guess the. I. I think that's. I think it's a incredibly valid point to make and question to ask. Right. I guess to play the devil's advocate and to kind of, you know, take another possibility here. Right. Is to me, the thing that tmax says that sounds the most like, I felt like Celtics fans and obviously, like, people within the organization are the ones who really zeroed in on the struggles against Memphis. Right. Because the Celtics came back and won that game. So if you're just kind of looking at the standings, if you, you know, are just kind of, like, looking at, like, okay, Celtics have won this many of their last. This many. They beat Memphis the other night. Okay. Okay. They're doing. They're doing pretty well with. With Tatum, you know, whatever. I don't think that you would necessarily look at that Memphis game and immediately when they lose then to the Timberwolves, unless you've been really locked in on the Celtics or unless somebody's been talking to you, you wouldn't necessarily be like, you know, like. Like those two in tandem. Having watched both of them kind of makes you go, okay. You know, that's the thing that. That draws a little bit of that. Right. I will say that I think it's definitely possible that TMAC had some. You know, I mean, listen, every one of these. You know, every one of these talking heads has an entire team behind them giving them stats, giving them all kinds of information about everything that's happened. Right. That person is incredibly locked in. Whoever gave TMAC his, like, notes before the game is unbelievably locked in on everything that's going on and has done a ton of research and certainly saw that, okay, Jason Tatum was 3 for 15 in his last game, right? And probably, like, dug into that a little bit and gave tmax some information and said, like, okay, this is what happened before. To your point, TMac and Jalen are close. So I do think it's possible that TMac heard, okay, Tatum was 3 for 15, and then he was. Had another tough game today and kind of, you know, put in a little plug for his guy, you know, for, like, the guy on the Celtics that he's like, you know, I like Jalen. You know, I. I think he's. I think he's great. He comes on my podcast, he listens. You know, he thinks very highly of me. I think extremely highly of him. I. I like him personally. I. I think that it's worth bringing this up. And, you know, I. I think that that is possible. But, I mean, listen, you're. You're absolutely right about the Jalen and TMAC connection. I mean, you know, like you said, TMac convinced him to stay in Boston. These guys have deep conversations about basketball and their future and Jalen's future and everything that's, you know, everything that goes on there. Like, it's.

[John Corrales]

It's.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't know. It's. I. I would make the devil's advocate argument just to kind of have it out there, but it's. It's a very valid question to ask.

[John Corrales]

Listen, I. I think the point that you just made is actually a really good one, too. I. I would even venture to say that it's maybe equally as much possible that tmac, we could. We could say that tmac what, didn't talk to Jalen, but was thinking, like, I know. I know how this. I know how this goes.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And, yeah, advocating for his guy, right? Like, he. He might simply just be saying, hey, man, everybody needs to understand this is Jalen's team, and I know you're rehabbing, but let's, you know, hey, you gotta fall in line and. Could as easily be what you said as it was possibly what I said. And it could.

[Tom Westerholm]

It could also be both, Right, because it could also be that he's had conversations with Jalen about how Jalen loves that this is. Has been his team. Right. And that. Then that seeps into his analysis when he sees that Jason Tatum went 3 for 15 and 6 for 16 in consecutive games. And then he says, like, one. You know, he probably thinks, like, hey, I. I think Very highly of Jalen, but then, two. He also knows that. Jay, I. I guarantee you that Jalen. Jalen seems to have loved being the one. A guy this year. I guarantee you that he has expressed that to tmac. So I think. I think it's very plausibly both things at the same time as well. Like, it could be.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, it's. Who knows? Listen, the only thing. The only thing I would say is if. If the situation was reversed. And I. This is a philosophy that I try to use all the time. If the situation was reversed, how would you feel if it was. If it was you. If it was Jalen that had a horrific injury and was coming back in early March and it worked 10 months to get back and get to this point, what would you want to do? Would you gracefully bow out or would you say, hey, guys, I'm back, I'm back. Just bear with me. I'm going to go through a little bit of things. I'm not doing it to be selfish, but I got to work through some things. I'm going to try to do it within the construct of the team, but just bear with me, and I promise you, I'm going to be my best, and we're going to try to win a championship, because I feel like that's where Jalen would be, because that's also

[Tom Westerholm]

a perfect paraphrase of what Tatum has been saying.

[John Corrales]

Exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah. I think any basketball player would be dying to come. If it was me, I'd be like. I wouldn't just sit there and be like, oh, man, I'm healthy. But you guys. You guys finish this off. I don't want to be a bother. No, I'm healthy. I made it back. Let's try. Let's do it. I'm here. You know, So I go back to what I said at the beginning. This. This was always going to be bumpy. I don't even think it's that bumpy. I think. I think the fourth quarter looked so bad.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

That it was what. What happened there.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

But they're in the time and the

[Tom Westerholm]

timing's tough with the Memphis game before it, too, like.

[John Corrales]

Right, Absolutely. But also, there were games before that that they looked fine. They look good. Everybody's like, oh, my God. We did a podcast talking about them potentially being the number one seed. So us.

[Tom Westerholm]

We did that. I don't recall.

[John Corrales]

It's two. Two good games. And it'd be like, turn around. You got OKC coming up, and New York's got New Orleans Next. And it's like, it's gonna suck watching you, you know, on Thursday, waking up to Celtics is the third seed. That's gonna suck. But it's. It's still. It's still fine. It's still fine. There's still plenty of time to work things back. You don't have. Vic is not a part like you. There's other elements to this. This is still not a fully realized team. You don't have all of your options out there. So whatever is happening.

[Tom Westerholm]

And the ceiling is so much higher now. That's the thing. That's the thing that matters here. The ceiling is.

[John Corrales]

Is higher. Yes, I get that. There's frustration. And fans. Fans are going to say what they're going to say, right? Fans is going to be stands on both sides, and it's going to be. I. I don't even want to look at the comment section. It's going to be a mess. But Paul Pierce was right. Don't pay any attention. Just go out there and understand that this is what needs to be done. Guys will find their rhythm. This is a great locker room. Everything that's. That's needed to be proven has been proven. Now there's one more thing to prove, just one more thing to prove, and that's that you guys can all get through this and get out on the other side and be a quality playoff team. That's the only thing left to prove. Jalen's proven what he needs to prove. Jason's proven what he needs to prove. He's back. He looks good. Everybody has proven or Joe has proven everything. Everybody has proven what they needed to prove. Now there's one thing left. Just get through this part, get through it together, come out on the other side of it and make a playoff run. That's all you got to do. That's it. Don't let this be the thing that derails all the awesome stuff that's been coming that's been going. Going on so far. Yep. And with that, we say goodbye.

[Tom Westerholm]

Because with that, we say to the comments section, your booze mean nothing to me. I see what makes you cheer.

[John Corrales]

That's my favorite line, man. I love that line. Tom, I appreciate you, man. Appreciate you, man. And I appreciate all of you listening, watching, sticking with us for 40 minutes. 40 minutes is a long time in the podcast world. Thank you for being here for all 40 of them. I do appreciate you. Monday through Friday, bonus podcasts whenever we can drop them. Plus the weekends, when they play on weekends. Tons of content here. So make sure you're subscribed and then I would love you to share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Solids Podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network with your team every day.

[Tom Westerholm]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

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[John Corrales]

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