Jordan Walsh BREAKS THROUGH, but can he STAY in the Boston Celtics rotation?

Summary

Locked On Celtics – November 11, 2025

Episode Theme:
Jordan Walsh BREAKS THROUGH – Can He Stay in the Celtics Rotation?
Host: John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal)
Guest: Tom Westerholm

Overview

In this episode, John Karalis and Tom Westerholm dig into the Celtics’ split series vs. the Orlando Magic, focusing on the emergence of rookie Jordan Walsh and analyzing whether he can maintain a role in Boston’s competitive and fluid rotation. They assess the ongoing battles for rotation minutes among the team’s young wings and forwards, examine some intriguing statistical oddities (most notably Jalen Brown’s puzzling on-off numbers), and provide perspective on Boston’s 5-6 record after 11 games and what lies ahead.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jordan Walsh's Breakthrough Performance (03:24–12:23)

• Walsh Steals the Spotlight

  • Tom’s top weekend takeaway: Jordan Walsh’s defensive impact and the flashes of energy and versatility that are making it hard for Coach Joe Mazzulla to keep him off the floor.
  • “We're really starting to see a guy who… it's hard to get off the floor… His defense is really good. He has this nose for the ball, this knack for doing things… The ball almost sticks to him when he gets steals.” — Tom Westerholm (03:42)

• Comparisons and Context

  • Walsh’s defensive activity and instincts are likened to Marcus Smart at his best; his length and aggression stand out.
  • The Celtics now have multiple versatile, springy forwards (Walsh, Josh Minott) fighting for the same developmental minutes—an enviable scenario from a team-building perspective.

• Rotation Reality Check

  • John highlights the cutthroat nature of NBA minutes for young players: “You either go out there and you perform well like you did against Orlando on Sunday, or you get beat a couple of times and it’s like, oh well, he can’t stay in front of [his man] … Then you don’t go to that matchup.” (06:08)
  • The presence of competing young options (Ugo Gonzalez, Baylor Scheierman, Josh Minott) creates a “next man up” culture. No prospect will get extended run through mistakes; every minute is a tryout.

• Walsh's Upside and the Celtics' Luxury of Options

  • Tom asserts Walsh’s development trajectory looks brighter than others', especially as his skills are defense-focused but show new potential.
  • “There's a little bit more meat on that bone… not in a literal sense, because Jordan Walsh is a very skinny individual.” — Tom Westerholm (09:11)
  • John and Tom agree: Celtics fans should feel lucky to have a bench filled with multiple intriguing, interchangeable young wings pushing for legitimacy.

• Metaphorical Take

  • John quips Walsh’s breakout game is like a banger song at a party when you were about to leave: “This game is that banger song. You're like, ah, man, I gotta stick around for this one. … Good for him for keeping me around for another drink. Now let's see where it goes.” (12:08)

Weird Statistical Segment: Jalen Brown’s Bizarre On-Off Metric (15:43–20:58)

• The Stat:

  • Jalen Brown is having an All-NBA-level season by the eye test—yet, according to Cleaning the Glass, the team is minus 14.2 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the floor.
  • Comparatively, third-string center Neemias Queta (Neemi) is plus 30.2—a dizzying differential.

• Context and Analysis

  • John speculates it’s a statistical mirage caused by early-season sample size, rotation randomness, and minutes with weaker bench groups.
  • Tom notes Brown’s on-off stats have consistently underwhelmed, even in past years.
  • “He's always been like this. And, you know, it's always been Tatum who's been one of the on-off superstars on the team. … Jalen has had that weird element to his stats for a while.” — Tom Westerholm (16:17)

• Broader Point

  • Bad plus-minus doesn’t match the eye test this year; Jalen looks “borderline unstoppable,” getting to the rim in ways not seen in previous seasons.
  • Late-game execution woes, lineup quirks, and “small-sample weirdness” likely play major roles.

• Takeaway

  • Plus/minus can illuminate, but isn’t gospel—remind fans not to overreact.
    • “Maybe plus-minus isn’t the exact way to judge a player. Turns out maybe it doesn’t tell you everything.” — Tom Westerholm (22:58)

Quick Stat Quirks and Backup Big Impact (21:54–22:29)

• Backup Bigs Win Games
  • Tom notes a fun stat: When backup center Luka Garza scores 9+ points, the Celtics are undefeated (4–0), underscoring the difference a productive big can make in tight games. (21:57)

Celtics Through 11 Games: State of the Team (23:01–31:20)

• Record Assessment

  • Boston is 5-6 after a demanding opening stretch. Both hosts agree this is acceptable given the schedule, injuries, and in-progress rotations.
  • “It was important to be hovering around .500 at this stage, and they are… You can do that little tango a little bit the rest of the way and not be in a terrible position at the end of it.” — Tom Westerholm (26:33)

• Schedule Talk

  • John details the upcoming, much-easier schedule and how this next stretch (more practice days, lighter opponents) could help Boston stabilize, stack wins, and test younger players more.

• Big Picture

  • The core “top seven” is solid; mixing-and-matching the eighth through eleventh spots—especially for young players—might end up being the norm, and that's not a problem if the “committee” approach keeps the team fresh and competitive.

Youth Development and What “Winning” Means This Year (31:20–33:34)

• Key Question: Can the young guns contribute to winning basketball, not just put up stats?

  • “What I do care about is… are [these young guys] going to contribute to winning and are they going to do what they did on Sunday? Jordan Walsh contributed to winning that game. They do not win that game without Jordan Walsh doing what he did.” — John Karalis (32:11)

• The Importance of Culture

  • Tom lauds the background of Boston’s young prospects (Minott’s fit in Boston, Gonzalez’s pro experience, Walsh’s years around championship-level talent) as indicators they can develop the “winning” habits Boston needs for long-term success.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jordan Walsh’s Defensive Flashes:

  “We're really starting to see a guy who… it's hard to get off the floor… [He] has this knack for doing things… the ball almost sticks to him when he gets steals.”
  — Tom Westerholm (03:42)

• On the Brutal Reality for Young NBA Players:

  “A guy in Jordan Walsh's station doesn't have any room for error… whoever is out there making [mistakes], there's three guys behind them that Joe can go to and… they all do equal things.”
  — John Karalis (06:34)

• On the Rotation Depth:

  “It’s a very nice luxury… If Jordan Walsh doesn't have it tonight… you can see what [someone else] can do… options is only a good thing.”
  — Tom Westerholm (09:25)

• Metaphor for Walsh’s Breakout:

  “This game is that banger song… you're like, ah, man, I gotta stick around for this one.”
  — John Karalis (12:08)

• On Jalen Brown’s On/Off Oddity:

  “Jalen’s on-off numbers have never been friendly, which is… weird.”
  — Tom Westerholm (16:16)

• Stat Perspective:

  “Maybe plus-minus isn’t the exact way to judge a player. Turns out maybe it doesn’t tell you everything.”
  — Tom Westerholm (22:58)

• On Team Outlook:

  “Not about counting [wins] up, but about how you get there and can these [young] guys contribute to them?”
  — John Karalis (32:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:24 – 12:23: Breaking down Jordan Walsh’s weekend, defensive impact, and the relentless battle for rotation minutes
• 15:43 – 20:58: The “weird stat” segment: Jalen Brown’s bizarre negative on-off, Queta’s ridiculous positive, and what it means
• 21:54 – 22:29: Backup big effect—Garza’s 9-point wins and wider bench implications
• 23:01 – 31:20: Celtics state of the team after 11 games; reasonable expectations, the schedule ahead, and what needs to improve
• 31:20 – 33:34: The true test for the young core: contributing to real wins

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Episode Takeaways

1. Jordan Walsh’s defensive burst has made him a real contender for rotation minutes—but with competition fierce, every shift will be an audition.
2. Boston’s depth of promising young wings means mistakes aren’t tolerated, but for the team, it’s a luxury to have “options” while keeping salary flexibility.
3. Plus/minus stats can mislead—Jalen Brown is playing winning basketball even if the advanced numbers say otherwise.
4. Boston is where it needs to be after a tough opening schedule. The next few weeks (softer schedule, more practice) represent a major opportunity to stack wins and integrate youth.
5. For the Celtics in 2025-26, “progress” is as much about development—seeing if young players can help win games—as about the record column.

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Transcript

[Tom Westerholm]

Foreign.

[John Karalis]

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[John Karalis]

What did this weekend do for Jordan Walsh's chances to stick around? And one weird stat right now on the Locked On Celtics podcast. Huh?

[Depp and D White]

Be ever ready. It's the seas. Who else could it be? What they gonna say now Screaming like JT Kar Recap the madness Every game, every practice, prime time. Depp and D White on the sideline. Rennie J How we started raising banners how we finish Locked On Celtics Pod Home of the Winners.

[John Karalis]

Podcast right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. Where does your team every day? Thank you for making this show the number one Celtics podcast in the world. And the Lockdown Podcast Network the number one podcasting sports podcasting network in the world. Really do appreciate you supporting us in that way. We talk Celtics here every Monday through Friday. Bonus podcast on the weekends. It shows free. It's Everywhere. It's on YouTube so subscribe however you want to listen to or watch podcasts. I'm John Corralis, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal. I've been covering the team for about 20 years. I've been doing this podcast for 10. I've written a couple of books about this team. Today's show is brought to you by Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use the code LOCKDOWN NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Later on, we'll take a look at where. Where we think the Celtics stand after 11 games. Here in the second segment, we'll get one weird stat and maybe more. But let's start with what we. What we've taken away from two games against the Magic, and we'll do that with Tom Westerholm. Oh, we got a graphic here.

[Tom Westerholm]

There it is.

[John Karalis]

There we go. Tom, how you doing, buddy?

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm good, man.

[John Karalis]

How are you? I'm great. So, Celtics win one, lose one against the Orlando Magic. What's your biggest takeaway from the weekend?

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, I mean, I think the first game, you know, tough one. I. I think the second one, my number one takeaway is Jordan Walsh. I think the. The Jordan Walsh thing is. Is really getting interesting because I think we're really starting to see a guy who can, you know, it's hard to get off the floor, right? If you're Joe Missoula, it is tough to take him off right now because his defense is really good. His. I think we're starting to see little bits and pieces of, you know, pre draft, the Jordan Walsh thing was like, okay, this is like this. This guy makes Marcus smart. Like, plays at his height with his athleticism, with his length. You know, he just. He has this nose for the ball, this knack for doing things, you know, this. Like this. The way the ball almost like, sticks to him when he gets these steals, sort of. He has just this intangible ability to defend. And I don't know, man, I'm. I'm happy for Jordan Walsh that we're starting to get these flashes. He seems like a good kid, and he is still very much a kid. You know, he's 21, like. And I think for the Celtics, I guess my number one takeaway here from the weekend is like, okay, you have this Josh Minot situation that, like, we talked about last time, like, you know, whether or not another team is going to offer him money that makes it prohibitive for the Celtics to. To keep him, you know, who knows? But if you got two of those guys, all of a sudden, it becomes a lot more interesting. Like, two of those long, springy forwards who can defend a bunch of different positions. If you got two of those guys, that's a lot more interesting. So, anyway, I'm, I'm. I'm happy for Jordan Walsh. I'm excited for him, and I'm, It's. It's interesting to me that the next time the Celtics go out, he's going to be one of the more interesting players for me to watch. That hasn't been the case for most of his career. It's always felt very much like, okay, well, get this guy some minutes so we can. He can run around and, you know, tire himself out a little bit, but that's not the case anymore.

[John Karalis]

Yeah, I'm curious to see if there is. If there is that level of kind of, I don't know, opportunity moving forward. I mean, he, he is getting the opportunity. At the same time, I, I know that Joe Missoula is going to go to whoever gives him a chance to win in a certain situation. And so that might meet. Like, a week ago, we were doing the Baylor Shireman thing. Yeah, you know, we were doing the Baylor Shireman thing, and he was like, hey, he's starting to make his move. You know, blah, blah, blah. A lot of the same things that, that you just said were being said about Baylor and, and those haven't gone away, but he's gotten a few DNPs. I, I came into this this weekend thinking that this might not be a Jordan Walsh series because Orlando is big, burly, tough, and Shireman has, like, more meat to him. He's like, he's a guy that can use his size, you know, a little bit better. So. But hey, you know, shows how much I know. Like, Joe went a different direction and it works. And so I. But I don't know, against Philly, if, If Jordan has two or three bad minutes against Philadelphia, boom, he's out. Because you need to be super consistent. Like, he is in an unfair spot. Not because Joe Missoula is making it unfair, because life in the NBA is unfair. A guy in Jordan Walsh's, you know, station doesn't have any room for error. You, you either go out there and you perform well like you did against Orlando on Sunday, or you get beat a couple of times and it's like, oh, well, he can't stay in front of, I don't know, DJ Edge, Comb. Yeah, Maxi somebody on the, you know, couldn't grab, like, whoever. If, if he has trouble with a matchup, then you don't go to that matchup. You give Somebody else a chance, and that person might be the one who earns minutes. And we all move on to the next shiny object and be like, hey, wow, you know, Hugo Gonzalez again, we've done this with Ugo, we've done this with Josh, we've done this with Baylor, and now we're doing it with Jordan. And I think my big takeaway when it comes to that is they're all equally good. They all have the opportunity to. To make some noise, and I don't know if any one of them is going to get the. The 20 to 25 minutes of, well, I'm gonna let you play through a couple of mistakes. They don't have the luxury of making mistakes because whoever is out there making them, there's three guys behind them that Joe can go to and be like, they're. They all do equal things, right? So that. That's my big thing. So in a way, that would be a compliment to Jordan because if he continues to do this, that means he is earning it with incredibly good play.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, for sure. And I think to me, the. The Walsh thing, it's. Because it's so defense oriented. It's one of the reasons that I think that he gets that. I think he's gonna keep getting minutes here. I mean, and we'll see, right? You're definitely right. That, like, you know, that there's been this. This cycle of these guys. And I think that because his is so defense oriented and because his defense, like, it looks a little bit different, you know, than, like, the way Walsh defends is a little different than the Wayman defense. I think there's. There's more upside there. He's shown more. I mean, there's more upside there, for one thing, because BAYLOR Shireman is 37 years old. And. But, like, I do think that there's. There's a little bit more potential there. There's a little bit more. I don't know, a little bit more meat on that bone. I guess the. Not in a literal sense. Right. Because Jordan Walsh is a very skinny individual, but.

[John Karalis]

Yes.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Karalis]

On that. Boom.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, there's. There's really not. But I. I think if you're the Celtics, I think one of the big takeaways here that it is. It's definitely a positive, and we'll see how positive. But it is definitely a positive that they have a bunch of different guys who can do this. Right. If you're looking ahead to, you know, the postseason. If you're looking ahead to just, like, making a postseason push, I mean, it It's a big boost that if. Okay. Yeah. If Jordan Walsh doesn't have it tonight. Yeah, you're right. You know, Hugo can go out there and you can see. You can see what he can do. If, if, you know, Hugo doesn't have it, then you can see what Shireman can bring to the table. Like, there's a lot of options here. And you know, for a team that, like, yeah. Isn't 100 sure what its rotation is going to look like, like, options is only a good thing. So. Might not be a good thing for Jordan Walsh, for Baylor Scheireman, but for the Celtics, you know, it's a very nice luxury there.

[John Karalis]

Could be. Could be. Yeah. And so we'll see. The more of these guys that can make these cases for themselves, the more that maybe can say, hey, no, we are worth keeping around for next year, the better. And it's. It may not. It may not be great to say, hey, we don't have any one guy that can be the regular ninth man or eighth man. But it might also be fine to say, you know, if you've got a solid top seven.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Karalis]

Then mixing and matching eight through 11 is. Is okay. It's fine.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's how, that's how the playoffs usually are anyway. Right. Like, you, you have like a top seven and then you, you know, mix and match as matchups see fit.

[John Karalis]

Yeah. And look, just from a financial perspective, if you pay three guys, four guys, you know, the, the Somewhere around the minimum two, three million dollars, then that, that's okay, too. And if you have a bunch, that's going to end up probably how things are going to have to go anyway in the new second apron era. Like, I'm still waiting to see how all of that shakes out. Like, we haven't seen the long term, how this builds things, but, you know, we'll see. We'll see. But Jordan, good for him for making that. That case and stepping up. Like, I'm. I, I said yesterday, I said it again today. I'm happy for him because I like people like me who are saying, like, I don't know, I'm kind of, kind of out. Like, I remember phrasing it like, I'm not, I'm not leaving the party yet, but I'm starting to, like, check for my keys, see where my code is. And so this is, this is like this game is that banger song. You're like, ah, man, I gotta stick around for this one. You know, somebody's like, come on, let's have one more like okay, okay. Okay. Let's go. Let's go.

[Tom Westerholm]

Somebody pulled out a good board game.

[John Karalis]

And you're like, yeah, let's do it. Okay, I got one in me. Yeah. Well, that's good. That's what you need. And then you know, from there maybe you do leave, or from there maybe it becomes like the greatest party ever. And that's kind of up to Jordan. So good for him for keeping me around for another drink. Now let's see where it goes. I got one weird stat for you, Tom Westerholm. We'll give it to you after the break. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. It's NBA season, and there's no better place to get in on the action than FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Even if you miss the start of a game or you want to ride the hot hand, FanDuel has live bets on everything from who will score next to fourth quarter comebacks. Plus, you can combine all your bets into a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout. It keeps every game exciting, especially when your team is making that late push right now. If you're a new customer, FanDuel will give you 300 in bonus bets when your first five dollar bet wins. So make it a good one. Go over to FanDuel.com to sign up now. Make sure when you sign up, you're setting your limits. You set your budget, whatever you can afford to lose. Just in case you get a cold streak, FanDuel will help you out, help you gamble responsibly, and help you, you know, not go overboard. We don't want any of that stuff you can play. And hey, if you, if you lose a couple, it happens. Come back next time. So head over to FanDuel.com to play your game with FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Today's show is also brought to you by Mint Mobile. If you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no bs. I said yes to making the switch and getting premium wireless for just $15 a month. Mint makes it simple. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even bring your own phone, keep your same number and contacts. You can get the same quality service you had before, but for a fraction of the price. Setup is easy. You keep your number and then you're up and running in minutes. Are you ready to say yes to saying no? Make the [e-mail] locked on MBA that's mintmobile.com lockdown MBA upfront payment of $45 is required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer for the first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on the unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. C Mint Mobile for details. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day and for Locked on making Lockdown Podcast Network the number one sports podcast network in the world. Thank you so much for doing that. You every day or you're the ones who make it happen. The people who are with us every Monday through Friday become an every day or subscribe. The show is free. It's everywhere podcasts exists. All right, Tom Westerholm, My weird stat is we've talked about Namishkeda. I think it's, I still think it's weird. Sorry, Neemi. I think it's weird that Neemi, according to cleaning glass is a plus 30.2. I still think that's weird. But the weird part is that Jalen Brown, who was having, I think, an incredible season, an all NBA level season, we'll see how it shakes out. But he's having an all NBA season. I think we can all agree on that, right?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Karalis]

Minus 14.2 on off. Okay, so the, that's, that's the difference in efficiency with Neemi on the floor versus Jaylen Brown on the floor. And that is a weird number. And I don't know, Tom, you want to take a crack at why that number is what it is.

[Tom Westerholm]

Not off. Not off the rip. I'm interested to hear what you, I assume you have, you've a theory or two formulated, but what I will say is that Jalen's on off numbers have never been friendly, which is.

[John Karalis]

They haven't weird.

[Tom Westerholm]

He's always been like this and you know, it's always been Tatum, who's always been kind of, you know, one of the on off superstars on the team. Obviously Tatum passed his powers to Keda this year. So for Mimi. But. But yeah, no, this is, I mean Jalen has had that weird, that weird element to his stats for a while.

[John Karalis]

He has. And I think, I think part of it is that he's, he's had a lot of time with backups. Maybe. I don't know.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't know.

[John Karalis]

I don't know. But I think this time around it's that he he's, he is on the floor with, with the lesser players. Mimi neemi is playing 20, not even 24 minutes a game. Jalen is playing 32 right now. And I just think Neemy comes off the floor before the wheels fall off. And people would say, well, yeah, John, that's what on off numbers are. You come off the floor and wheels fall off because you're that good. And, and I think there is something to the, the defensive efficiency that Keda being there helps, you know, protect the rim. I mean, 30 points better is, is a bit much, I think.

[Tom Westerholm]

Bit of a stretch.

[John Karalis]

Yep. I still think that that's because not only is he like that much better, like okay, the, the Celtics are. I'm, I'm making up a number here just because to illustrate my point, think with him on the floor, the, the Celtics might be like really a plus 11. But with him off the floor with last, you know, the, the last Orlando game aside, Luca Garza, Chris boucher, who's now DNPs, like those guys are like, like minus 20s. And so with, with those things factored in, like Neemi is just so much better because there is literally no other rim protector standing there at the rim. Your only other rim protector is Derek White with chase down blocks and, and you know, being the best shot blocking guard in the game. But I think for Jalen for being such a negative, I just think that he's been on the floor during the runs that the other team is making and it hasn't been like his fault. Like other players are screwing up and he's the one that's on the floor and Kate has kind of been part of that. Like if, if he leaves and Garza comes in, Jalen's still on the floor. He's getting all the negatives from the Garza thing. So I, I just, I think the early sample size is playing a big, big role in this. But it still, no matter what, it's weird to have Keda be one of the best plus minus guys in the league.

[Tom Westerholm]

NBA. Yeah.

[John Karalis]

And Jalen Brown one of the worst on the team to get like regular. In fact, Luca Garza is behind him with 132 minutes. Jalen has 350 minutes and he's a minus 14.2. Like that just doesn't make any sense. Who the. The only guys that are worse than him? Baylor Shireman with 59 minutes, Boucher with 64 minutes, Tillman with 58, Garza with the 132. So it's just a weird, It's A weird number to me.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's very weird, too, because it doesn't. You know, in previous seasons, I. I almost feel like I could have. There were times where I felt like I could have seen that, you know, where that lined up with the eye test a little bit. Right. Where it's like, you know, Jalen does get buckets sometimes. It doesn't look like, you know, that. That previous seasons, I have not felt like that. This year that. That is not been my impression from watching the game. Like, it just, you know, it looks like, you know, I mean, what it looks like, honestly, is that Jalen is borderline unstoppable. Like, it's, you know. Yeah, he's getting his shoulder around these guys, getting himself to the rim in a way that just has not been there in previous seasons, you know, for whatever reason. So, yeah, it. It doesn't look that way. So. So, yeah, I mean, it. You're right. You've classified it well.

[John Karalis]

It is a. I do think that the Celtics like late game execution, which has been not great.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Karalis]

Like, Jaylen's on the floor for all of that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, that's true. That's. That's definitely a big part of it. Yeah.

[John Karalis]

Data hasn't been all the time. He has been for some, he hasn't been for others, and so he's not getting the full effect of late game execution. And to be fair, Jalen has had, like, some late game kind of like fumbles and turnovers. So he's. I'm not saying that he's. He should be where Keda is, but he shouldn't be. Minus 14.2.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Karalis]

And I think this is. This is the. The small sample size. Just taking a big old bite out of everything. I'm very curious to see how that shakes out, though, because you're right. Jalen. Jalen hasn't had the best plus minus over his entire life. So, yeah, I'm. I'm kind of like, is this plus minus on? Let's see. He's. Against Orlando. He was a minus 17. They won that game, you know, minus 21. He was a minus 20 against Houston. So, like, he. He's getting these big, you know, minuses there. So I don't know. It's. I'm very. I'm very curious to see how this settles. All right, let's. Let's. Hang on.

[Tom Westerholm]

I got a weird stat, too.

[John Karalis]

Give us that time Has a snot, everybody.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's not. It's not really a weird one. It's definitely nothing advanced, but you want a Perfect indicator of what might happen if the Celtics got, like a decent backup big, Luca Garza. In games where he scores nine or more, the Celtics are 4 0. So it's not. It's, you know, might not be one to one, but it does help a little bit when you have a backup big who is giving you some good stuff.

[John Karalis]

That's. Yes, that. And there you go. That. That's where I think Jalen's plus minus takes a hit or, you know, some of these guys.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Karalis]

Because, you know, look, it's not just Jalen out there. Let's see. Pritchard is a plus 15.3. Derek White's plus plus one. Simons is a minus seven.

[Tom Westerholm]

You know, well, the Derek White one is funny because it's like he's. He's a positive. And all we've heard so far this season, all we've talked about is like, well, man, Derek's really struggling, but Jalen looks awesome.

[John Karalis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so funny. Maybe plus minus isn't the exact way to judge a player.

[Tom Westerholm]

Turns out maybe it doesn't tell you everything. Yeah, yeah.

[John Karalis]

Let's get some thoughts here. And, you know, we've gone through the big, tough seven game start. The creamy middle that. That softer four games. Let's kind of take a look at where the Celtics are when we come back after 11 games. Today's show is brought to you by Today's show is brought to you by game time. I know who. Today's show is. Brought to you by game time is here to get you tickets to just about anything. But basketball season is here. And look, I've bought basketball tickets to the WNBA before. I bought baseball tickets. I've bought a few things here. So I'm not eligible for this offer that I'm about to give you. But I can tell you that game time is very easy to use. You can see where the best offers are. You open up the app, it's super easy. You can see the green dots, the red dots, the yellow dots. It tells you where the best deals are, where the best prices are. You get great seats in minutes, no hidden fees at checkout. The price you see is the price you get. You click on the tickets, it'll show you what the view is. You can see what you're going to see when you go to the game. And they've got these zone deals which are a game changer. You pick a section, they'll pick the seats, and you save even bigger there. You can find NBA tickets on that app for under 25 bucks. So don't take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use the code locked on NBA for 20 off your first purchase. I wish I can get that, but I don't anymore because my first purchase was a long time ago. Terms apply. That's code locked on MBA, L, O, C, K, E, D locked on NBA for $20 off. Swipe, tap, ticket go. Today's show is also brought to you by Robin Hood. Your ambition. Just minutes match with Robinhood. You play for the win. Not just on game day. Every day. Locking in on every opening, beating your pr, beating it again. Channel that drive into your money. Robinhood puts you in control of your money. Trade stocks and ETFs, options, futures and crypto all on one platform. You can now build and execute your own trades from a desktop with Robinhood Legends advanced tools or take advantage of the new Robinhood strategies with tailored portfolio managed by a team of experts. You expect more from yourself now. Expect more for your money from your money. Get started [e-mail] yourmoney again, that's robinhood.com yourmoney your money, your move. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Every day. Go check out Locked on Fantasy basketball. Josh Lloyd hosts the greatest basketball fantasy basketball podcast in the world. If you're serious about winning your league, you got to listen to him because he's going to give you all the inside info, the ads, the drops, the trades you should be making, who should you should be starting and benching all of that stuff. So go check it out wherever you found this podcast tomorrow. The Celtics are 5 and 6 through 11 games. We knew that they were going to have some struggles through the first seven. And then we thought, hey, that next four would be like, nice if they can make up some ground five and six. Maybe. It's not exactly how they'd get there. I don't know how you feel, but I feel okay. I think, I think coming out of these 11 games, I feel okay with this team being five and six.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, not being, you know, above 500 when you know that the Utah game stings a little bit if you're the Celtics, right Like that, it's like, man, you, you left one on the table there. But I, I think, but, you know, being 5 and 6, is that when we talked early on the season, right? We talked about not getting too deep in a hole. Like you can't, this team can't dig itself A big hole. Because coming digging himself back out of a big hole is going to be really hard without Jason Tatum. Right. So, like, it's, it was important to be hovering around.500 at this stage, and they are, you know, they're one game below. You know, I think if you think of the rest of the season in, you know, two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, two steps back, you know, like, you can do that little tango a little bit the rest of the way and, and not be in a terrible position at the end of it. So, yeah, I think it's, I think what we've seen so far, we're going to see them beat some teams that we didn't expect them to beat. We're going to see the, the occasional Cleveland win. We're going to see, you know, a nice win like they had yesterday against Orlando. You know, we're going to see some good stuff. We're going to see some Utah losses that are pretty gross. But it does feel like we've got a, you know, barring any health issues, it does feel like we have a pretty good sense of what we're going to be looking at over the next few months.

[John Karalis]

Yeah, you know, I, I think, I think some things were confirmed over these 11 games. Like, I, I don't think the good teams are going to be like, like, those are going to be struggles and, you know, like, like Orlando, we can classify them as a good team, but maybe not as good.

[Tom Westerholm]

They're gonna get there. I, I, I, I don't like Orlando. I don't like their jerseys. I don't like a lot of things about them. I don't like the Disney. I mean, I like their jerseys. I don't like the Disney. I think that's stupid.

[John Karalis]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

But I do think that Disney, that Disney. I think, I do think Orlando is going to be pretty good, but.

[John Karalis]

Yeah, but they're not good yet. And so, like, they're, you know, this was, you, you can look at this. And this is the thing about this team. You could look at some of these games like Orlando. Did the Celtics really do anything different defensively in the second Orlando game? I don't think so. It just. Orlando hit 17 three pointers on that Friday and seven on Sunday. And there's a big difference there. The Utah game is like, oh, gross. But it's offset by the win over Cleveland. And then you can look at Detroit and New York and like, yeah, we had opportunities and that. I think there's going to be a lot of. We had opportunities and where the Celtics become the 44, 45 win team is how quickly can you stop having that discussion and saying, ah man, we had it, we just blew it. The longer you have that discussion, the lower your win total gets because the margin for error is just non existent. So you got Philly on Tuesday, you got Memphis on Wednesday, that's another three games in four nights. You finally get three days off and the schedule kind of normalizes, right? Three days off. The Clippers a day off. Brooklyn two days off. Brooklyn again, a day off. Orlando, two days off. Detroit, two days off. Minnesota, Cleveland back to back. But you know, 1, 2, 3, 4 stretches, 4, you know, 4 different, multiple days off in three weeks when they've been playing this grueling kind of schedule. I think you're going to take the schedule into account here and say they, they stayed afloat at the very beginning of the season where the preseason, I've said a million times, was meaningless. Didn't give them anything. They're figuring things out on the fly. I don't know where they're going to end up wins wise, but the fact that they stayed afloat and are at 5 and 6 now, I never expected them to be a 50 win team. So this is an opportunity here for them to take what they've learned, get some of this practice time. You get a couple of cupcakes there with Brooklyn, you know, maybe, you know, Memphis, maybe stack up a few wins there and keep things rolling until you start to get a little more consistency. Going back to the beginning, Jordan, Walsh, those guys, if they can be a little bit more consistent, that helps the bench units being better, taking some of the pressure off of the starting unit, then it's okay. If Derrick White misses a couple of shots, then that, that's all fine. So it's just a matter of how quickly do they get that. And I, I feel like they're kind of trending that way. You know, we talk about the points on the bulletin board. It's not like this big, massive upward swing, but I think the push pins are going upwards.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, a little. Nice. A nice steady, small slope. Very small slope. Yeah, but, yeah, but it's, it's going that way.

[John Karalis]

It's going that way. I think this is a positive. I'll finish by saying this. I'll repeat what I said yesterday. It's not about the wins and losses necessarily, but the guys who are trying to make this team for next year, which is what everybody understands that this is all about. Yeah, you have to Figure out how to win. You can't just say that this guy played great, but then they collapsed at the end. That's not good enough. Yeah. It's not about, I don't care if The Celtics win 34 or 44 games this year, but what I do care about is, is Josh Minot, Hugo Gonzalez, Jordan Walsh, Baylor Scheireman, all of those guys, are they going to contribute to winning and are they going to do what they did on Sunday? Jordan Walsh contributed to winning that game. They do not win that game without Jordan Walsh doing what he did. And that's maybe the only time we've ever said that about a Celtics game.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Karalis]

Can. Can these guys contribute to winning? Because when it comes time to actually care about the wins, those guys have to be. They have to understand what it takes to do it. And that's why the wins and losses matter this season. Not about counting them up, but about how you get there and can these guys contribute to them?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And I think that the, that's, that is why it's such a positive that Josh Minot seems to love Boston. Right. That's why it's such a positive that Ugo Gonzalez comes in and has played professional basketball for years and years already at the age of 19. That's why it's such a positive that Jordan Walsh has gotten three years under his belt playing on a championship level team with championship level stars at his position. Right. Those, those things help you understand because it, it like learning how to win and becoming a winner is a big learning curve. Like that's hard to do. And if you've got guys who are young but already kind of on that path, that's a, that's nice. That is a, that has the potential to be a nice win for. In a otherwise, you know, somewhat down, somewhat bleak season. That's a nice, that's a nice win to come out of it.

[John Karalis]

Well, somewhat down and somewhat bleak is a great way to finish this podcast, which some might say is somewhat down in bleak sometimes. Tom, appreciate you. Thanks, Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate you, man.

[John Karalis]

I do appreciate all of you listening and watching. Thank you so, so much for being here. It's a Monday through Friday podcast when they do play on the weekends bonus podcast. So we're not getting one this week because they get a few days off, but we'll get one next Friday when they play Brooklyn at home. So I will be there for that and I will give you a post game podcast probably from TD Garden. So make sure you're subscribed. Get the show it's free. It's available Everywhere. It's on YouTube. Let me know what you think in the comment section on the YouTube page. Share your thoughts. Become an every day or join me every Monday through Friday here in the Number one Celtics Podcast in the world on the number one sports podcasting network in the world. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics Podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.

[Ben Stiller]

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