Mailbag: Did Celtics DUMP Proven Winners Too Soon? Robert Williams RETURN?

Summary

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Locked On Celtics Mailbag: Did Celtics Dump Proven Winners Too Soon? Robert Williams Return?

Date: May 29, 2026
Host: John Karalis
Guest: Tom Westerholm

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Episode Overview

This mailbag episode, hosted by John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal beat writer) and joined by Tom Westerholm, digs into a trio of big-picture questions sent in by Celtics fans. They tackle whether Brad Stevens moved on from veteran "proven winners" too soon, explore how the Celtics should build their roster in the era of stars like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Victor Wembanyama, and discuss the sense (if any) in bringing back fan favorite Robert Williams III. The discussion holds an analytical, candid, and occasionally irreverent tone as the duo unpacks fans’ anxieties and evaluates Boston’s present and future moves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Did Brad Stevens Move On From Proven Winners Too Soon?

Timestamps: 03:00–10:25

• Fan Question: What would have happened if the Celtics kept Kristaps Porzingis, Al Horford, and Jrue Holiday? Did Brad Stevens "pull the plug" too soon on key veterans?
• Long-term vs. Short-term Mindset:
  • Tom: "Brad did all of this stuff to preserve the…long term viability of the team…there’s still plenty of toothpaste left in the Jay’s tube" (03:11).
  • The front office’s main concern was flexibility, particularly given new NBA cap rules ("second apron") and an essential draft pick being frozen unless the team moves under the threshold.
• The Tatum Injury as Catalyst: John emphasizes that Jayson Tatum’s injury played a major role in triggering these moves—but the intended timeline for Holiday and Porzingis was always pretty short.
  "We kind of knew that…when they signed these two guys that it was a two, maybe three year plan. They could have gone one more year. But…Porzingis was hurt for most of the year" (05:41).
• Learning Year, Not a Failure:
  • John compares the end-of-season disappointment (blowing a 3–1 lead to Philadelphia) to the Men in Black “memory eraser,” arguing fans are forgetting the growth and context of this year.
  • Tom cheekily calls it “a gap year…that was healthy” (08:00), suggesting the brief pain was an investment in broader competitive sustainability.
• Cap/Apron Dynamics:
  • The major benefit to the moves was cap flexibility (exceptions, trade potential), even though the loss stings.
  • Tom: "[Stevens] is paid to think long term, right?…all of that stuff that he did last off season was part of that and it still fits into that" (09:56).
• Bottom Line: Both agree the Celtics did not bail on key veterans prematurely—they acted at the right time given harsh NBA financial realities and injury uncertainty.

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2. Roster Construction in the Era of SGA & Wembanyama

Timestamps: 14:26–25:55

• Fan Question: Should the Celtics (given the OKC–San Antonio rivalry) focus their roster on speed, athleticism, and power, building around 'the Jays' (Tatum & Brown), Ugo, and Jordan Walsh?
• Versatility Is Everything:
  • Tom: You want athletic, switchable wings—"Derrick White…can guard a bunch of different positions…there’s a lot of athleticism and speed on the team as it’s constructed" (16:18).
  • But ultimately, you need stars—that’s the non-negotiable. Role players matter, but top-end talent wins: "You’ve got to have stars…that’s how good these teams are, right? You’re not going to beat them by…puzzle piecing this together…It’s gonna come down to your stars" (17:12).
• The Importance of a 'Third Guy':
  • John: The biggest playoff separator isn’t always the first or second star, but how reliable your "third guy" is.
    "The most important player on a team is who that third person is, because it’s not always a third star. Now, you can’t do three stars…" (18:40)
    "When Embiid could ignore the Celtics bigs…you can just pack the paint—that’s, no matter who you have…" (21:40).
  • The role changes game-to-game, but someone beyond Tatum/Brown has to step up—Derrick White, a new signing, whoever.
  • Playoff defense will always try to take away stars—someone else must punish the opponent.
• OKC/Spurs Youth Model Not Replicable:
  • Celtics can’t "start over" and draft three 22-year-old stars. They must build around what’s there, especially the Jays.
• Dealing with Big Opponents (Wembanyama):
  • Tom: Teams need a "beefy guy who…I don’t mind if he gets in foul trouble" (23:55). Ideally, more than one—physicality matters against bigs.
  • John: Maybe the solution vs. Wembanyama is throwing physical centers at him in waves—even if none are elite.
    "Maybe you just draft that guy and…just bang on Wembanyama…three centers that could just wail away…and you keep them out on the perimeter" (25:22).
• Conclusion: Roster tweaks should focus on versatility, defensive depth, and a flexible, reliable "third option," not a radically new philosophy.

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3. Should the Celtics Re-Sign Robert Williams III?

Timestamps: 28:10–34:32

• Fan Sentiment: Many fans want the "Time Lord" back, thanks to his unique game and beloved personality.
• The Emotional Case:
  • John: "I would love Rob to come back personally…just have somebody in the locker room to talk to that gives good quotes and is a lot of fun and the vibes…" (28:18).
  • Tom: "Rob has this ability to just kind of…say stuff in a way that…like those words in that order that you put them in, I liked that a lot" (28:29).
• The Analytical Case:
  • But the health track record just isn’t there:
    "[He] played 59 games last year. That’s really good for Rob…but do you want a guy where 59 is really good and also 17 minutes a game the last two seasons?" (29:03)
  • Playoff availability, predictability, and minute limitations make him a deep depth piece rather than a rotation lock.
• Financial & Roster Realities:
  • John: Cap and tax constraints mean every dollar and roster spot matters. "If it’s on a minimum deal and they’re OK with the minimum deal, then I’ll consider it…you can cut them, it doesn’t really matter that much" (31:10).
  • The Celtics need to reset the luxury tax repeater penalties and maintain flexibility—any signing of Rob or Porzingis has to be "pure luxury."
• Opportunity Cost:
  • Tom: "Every spot that you give to a luxury guy is…one fewer spot…you might have liked who…" (33:36).
  • John: "Construct your roster…have that be…who you’re rolling with. If you’ve got two open roster spots and want to give one of those guys…bet on the possibility…sure, fine. But don’t count on them. Plan for a life without them" (32:49).
• Conclusion: Both hosts adore Rob, but he only makes sense as an end-of-bench depth guy if the Celtics have filled all more pressing needs and he’s on a minimum contract.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the "Gap Year" Concept:
  • Tom: "I’ll definitely use the G word and I’ll say gap year because I don’t have to interact with these guys on a daily basis. So I am perfectly fine saying was a gap year and that that was healthy." (07:59)
• On Recent Celtics Fan Amnesia:
  • John: "It’s like the Men in Black memory eraser…everybody just went right back to a year ago and all the hard feelings…came right back. Everybody forgot about all of what happened this past season." (06:42)
• On Team Building & Flexibility:
  • Tom: "[Stevens] is paid to think long term, right…keeping this franchise as healthy as possible for as long as possible." (09:57)
• On Stars vs. Puzzle Pieces:
  • Tom: "It just feels too easy. But that’s how good these teams are, right? You’re not going to beat them by…puzzle piece this together with the right role players. It’s gonna come down to your stars." (17:12)
• On the Third Guy Principle:
  • John: "The most important player on a team is who that third person is…if a third guy is stepping up consistently—can be a different guy every night even—you need a third guy to step up." (18:40)
• On Robert Williams’ Fan Value:
  • Tom: "I love Rob. Rob has this like ability…just kind of say stuff in a way that you’re like, I just kind of like the way you said that man." (28:24)
• On End-of-Bench Signings:
  • John: "Construct your roster…and if they become a luxury, then great. Other than that, in any other scenario, I just can’t…justify any kind of scenario that’s not pure luxury." (32:49)

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Additional Highlights

• Fun banter between hosts: Jokes about guest payment, missing Terrace Reed’s name, and long podcasting careers add a light, self-aware tone.
• Reiteration of salary cap realities: The hosts repeatedly stress how different the post–second apron landscape is for cap management.
• Promised Bonus Content: Additional mailbag questions (including Derrick White talk) will be in a follow-up episode.

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Key Timestamps for Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Introduction of mailbag & guest | 00:48–01:55 | | Proven Winners: Did Stevens move on too soon? | 03:08–10:25 | | Roster Building: SGA/Wemby Era | 14:26–25:55 | | Robert Williams Return Discussion | 28:10–34:32 | | Notable banter/outro | 35:47–end |

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Episode Takeaways

• The Celtics’ moves to trade veterans and retool weren’t premature but dictated by injury, cap management, and the long view.
• Building for the future means prioritizing flexibility, adding depth, and especially finding a dependable “third guy” to step up in big games.
• Robert Williams is loved by fans and the locker room but is too unreliable for anything beyond a minimum contract, luxury depth role.

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This summary delivers the episode's substance and spirit; ideal for any Celtics fan who missed out or seeks a quick, thorough refresher.

Transcript

[A]

It's the lockdown podcast. Network your team every day.

[B]

Your daily NBA fix just got a lot smoother with the everydayer club. The NBA moves fast and we know you stay locked in year round. The everydayer club is designed to keep you in the flow of the game with a completely ad free listening experience. Whether it's the heat of the playoffs, the chaos of free agency or a deep dive into the draft, you get the insight without the interruptions. You also get a seat in our private discord to talk hoops with us in real time. Make your daily routine even better. Join the club by tapping the everydayer club link in the show notes.

[A]

It's mailbag time. We're gonna see if Brad Stevens pulled the plug too early on a champion. The roster construction in the age of Shea Gildas, Alexander and Victor Wembanyama. And the return potentially of an old friend. Locked on selfish pod, home of the winners. Hey, welcome back to the show. I'm John Corrales. Later on we'll get to the return of a an old friend named Robert Williams. Does it make sense for the team? Second segment will be the roster construction in the age of Shay Gildas Alexander and Victor Wembanyama. Today's show is a mailbag episode, which means all of the questions can come in@john corrales.com mailbag john corrales.com mailbag and this is a special mailbag episode because I got help today. Tom Westerholm, everybody. What's going on, Tom?

[C]

What's going on?

[A]

How are you? I'm great. I'm great. The questions are so advanced, so difficult. This for the first time ever in the history of lockdown celtics dual answers for these questions. Are you prepared? Are you prepared to give the answers people are looking for?

[C]

Yeah, man. You brought me on for the. You bring me on for the advanced stuff. So that's, that's what I'm here, that's

[A]

what I'm here to take care of. The very easy, you know, surface level stuff. And I. Oh, well, we need smart analysis. Let's get Tom Westerholm on here.

[C]

That's why you pay me the big bucks for sure.

[A]

That's right. That's right. So let's do it. Is that a reminder that I haven't paid you this month? Maybe that might be okay. So let's get this question from Kwong V. Who says a question I never hear discussed. What does the season look like if Brad Stevens keeps Kristaps Porzingis, Al Horford, Andrew Holiday. All three were Key pieces of a championship run. Age and money are obvious factors, but the Celtics have struggled with consistency this year. What point do we ask whether Brad moved on from proven winners too quickly? Tom, what do you think?

[C]

It's a executive of the year Brad Stevens to you, buddy. No, look, I think I, I mean, my snap answer to this one, right, is Brad did all of this stuff to preserve the kind of the long term viability of the team, right? Like, it's this. There's still plenty of time. There's still plenty of toothpaste left in the Jay's tube, right? Like, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot that can still come from this era of, of basketball. And Brad just kind of, I think by trading those guys away, yeah, there's like a little bit of pain in the middle, but, you know, you, this, this gives him the opportunity to build something again. You know, I mean, obviously the way that it ended, the way this season ended is gonna spark questions, right, that you're gonna have, you're gonna have questions, concerns about that. I don't, I, I'm sure Brad does too. But I think the, the biggest thing is just trying to make this particular iteration, this era of the team viable for as long as possible. You know, especially Porzingis was injured a lot. Like, how comfortable are you lying? I mean, we're going to get to this later with another, another old buddy. But yeah, I mean, it's. How comfortable are you with that as your long term solution? To me, those are the, the biggest points.

[A]

Yeah, I think, I think what we have to understand is because Tatum was injured, like, that's, that's really what triggered a lot of this. I don't know what would have happened. They might have traded Porzingis and Holiday if, you know, regardless. But if Tatum was healthy, maybe they keep Al Horford. Maybe that's a price that they were willing to pay. So I, I do know that they wanted to get out of the second apron. The penalties were still way too punitive. The. They. They have a frozen draft pick right now in 20, 30, something that they have to stay under the second apron one more year to unfreeze that. And that's important not because of the draft pick itself, but because the, you can't trade that. You can't do anything with that. So you, you want to put that, that draft pick back in play so you have another option. Flexibility is the whole big thing with, with the Celtics. So I think no matter what, Porzingis and Holiday were likely Gone. And we kind of knew that when they signed these two guys that it was a two, maybe three year plan. They could have been one, maybe they could have gone one more year. But you said it. Porzingis was, was hurt for most of the year and only had a decent run in him at the end with the, the Warriors. If he was, if he was any good or available during the season, I think the Hawks would have tried to keep him. I don't think the Hawks wanted to get rid of him other than for the fact that just couldn't, couldn't. They were paying for nothing. So they had to, they had to move on. It wasn't, he wasn't giving Trey Young what they had hoped he would give Trey Young. And that was their last gaffe. And they're like, you know, Trey's gone now, KP is gone and all that. So I don't think that he moved on from proven winners too quickly. I think if anything, he moved on from them kind of at the right time because of the Tatum injury. The Celtics learned a lot this year. I'm not going to use the G word, but this was a learning experience for them. They had to, they had to go through this, I think. And I. The way the season ended changes. It's almost like it rewired people's brains. Tom. Yeah, everything was fine. Everything was fine. And then they blew a 31 lead to the Sixers and it's like the Men in Black memory eraser. Everybody just went right back to a year ago and all the hard feelings that they had after losing to the Knicks came right back. Everybody forgot about all of what happened this past season. And I think that that part of it is a mistake. That part of it is, I think, where people lose sight of what the Celtics not only accomplished, but learned. And now moving forward, you took this one year, now this summer, up until the trade deadline. The Celtics are building what is presumably, presumably the next version of a contender. They had to do it. So I, I don't think they moved on from proven winners to. I don't think keeping those guys would have gotten them that much farther this year.

[C]

No, I agree. And like I joked, for one thing, I'll definitely use the G word and I'll say gap year because I don't have to interact with these guys on a daily basis. So I am perfectly fine saying was a gap year and that that was healthy. Like most gap years ruining my life, I'm here to. Yeah, 100 a life ruiner here. I also, I also do think like I, I, I said it joking but like, look, Brad won executive of the year in part because of like the work that he did to get the Celtics to where they were and to remain competitive. That was really good work, right? Like, that was, that was really impressive to get, to get them under, to get them under the aprons and to put them in a position where they can do it again, right. They're able to reset so much stuff that is going to open up so much stuff for the future and that is, that's, you kind of have to take some short term pain. Also. There was really no way to know that the Sixers were going to, I know Celtics fans probably don't want to hear this, especially after last season. There was no way to know that the Sixers were going to fully realize themselves for like a little bit. And then like everything was just gonna go back right? Like, oh, that was a tough one. That was a tough hit for sure. But again, the benefits of everything that have happened is that the Celtics got got down to where they needed to be. They were able to reset everything and now they have a chance again this, this season. They will probably stay there and then after that they will have so many avenues available. They have a lot of avenues available right now with all the, all the exceptions, all the, you know, the, the, the mle. The, the, the trade traded player exceptions. They have all this stuff that they can play with and they, and they, where they can still keep their future open. So like I, yeah, I, I know that it sucks for Celtics fans to have lost to the Sixers. I, I get it, I really do. But I, I think that taking the long, like Brad Stevens is paid to think long term, right? He is paid to think about the future. And I mean, yes, he was mad at that press conference and he was kind of giving indicators that things are going to happen. But like the, but they're going to happen within the context of keeping this franchise as healthy as possible for as long as possible. And all of that stuff that he did last off season was part of that and it still fits into that. So no, I don't think he moved on to fast.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so what about the roster construction in general? What should it be in this age of Shea Gilders Alexander and Victor Wembanyama? That is coming up when we come back on the Locked on Celtics podcast. Today's show is brought to you by. Indeed, workplace chaos. I know what that sounds like, what that looks like. Overflowing inbox. You get deadlines all over the place. I used to have to hire people and now I know when you are trying to fill that open spot it can be tempting to just put it out there and hope the right people show up. No Indeed Sponsored jobs going to help you reach the people who actually fit what you're looking for. Skills, experience and location. So you're not just hoping the right candidate stumbles across your post right now. In this next minute, companies like yours are going to make 27 hires on Indeed according to Indeed Data Worldwide. So if you're hiring, spend less time searching and more time interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. That means less stress, less time and more results for you when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Jobs. You can get a $75 sponsored job credit right now if you go to Indeed.com podcast. Get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast and also support the show by saying you heard about Indeed right here on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Today's show is also brought to you by Kalshee. We are potentially one win away from figuring out who is facing the New York Knicks in the NBA Finals. And on Cal State you can trade every single playoff game, every series, everything right through the championship. What Kelsey is is trading against other people. You're not it's not just like a live like you against the house. You can buy into the OKC Thunder now. You can sell before the NBA Finals even start if the if the price goes up and then you can get yourself a little bit of a payout so it works more like a stock market than it does a just, you know, picking something against the house. So check it out at calshe on the Kalshi app. K A L S H I Use the code locked on. You're gonna get $10 when you trade 10. That's Kalshee. K A L S H I Kalshee trade on anything 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements. Event contract trading evolves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values and available markets differ from those mentioned. For more information, see kalshee.com regulatory thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Every day being here with me every Monday through Friday still going Monday through Friday through this off season. We don't we don't go down to three days a week until August. So plenty of podcasting still left. So check it out. Thanks for being with me I'm John Corrales. I am beat writer covering the Celtics for sis. Sports Illustrated Celtics on si. You can, yeah, just enjoy the show, I guess. Let me, I'm just gonna bail myself out of that. Can't, can't figure out exactly what I want to say.

[C]

He's been doing, he's John Corralis. He's been doing some version of this show for 20 years now. I've been doing this show for 10.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, there you go. You're welcome.

[C]

You play professionally?

[A]

Yeah, I did, yeah. Okay. Right now I'm taking [e-mail] mailbag. Get your questions in. We'll answer them every week. Tom is here to help me with a few of the questions.

[C]

With Steve's question and introducing yourself, apparently.

[A]

Yeah, I, my brain just went haywire for a second. The way Steve asks, the way OKC and San Antonio are beating each other up, maybe the Celtics approach should be to build a roster on speed, athleticism and power. On the current roster, the Jays, Ugo and Jordan look like foundational pieces. Who would you add or subtract around those four to build on that theme? Okay. Speed, athleticism, and power. I mean, isn't that everything? Yeah, it's, that is a little everything. But I understand what he said. Like, I think what the point he's trying to make is. These guys are going to keep getting to the NBA Finals, having to go through each other and really wearing each other down. So the team that's going to beat them is going to be able to kind of outwork them, outrun them, maybe beat them up a little bit. So as far as speed, you want speed and athleticism out in the wings and maybe a little bit of power down low. I mean, doesn't everybody want to build a team around speed, athleticism and power? Who, who says no, you know what? I don't want any power on my team, you know? So who do you, who do you like on the current roster? It's the Jays. It's Ugo and Jordan Walsh. I still think that you, you still have to have the other types of pieces. Like, I, I, I, I'm, I'm not sure if there's a different way. Maybe we can rephrase the question. Is there, is there a different way to maximize your roster to face these, these two teams, one of these two teams in the Finals?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's tough, right, because there are guys on the Celtics roster who you look at and you're like, that guy's really well Suited to face these teams, right? Like Derrick White is like, you want a player like Derrick White, you want a guy who can guard a bunch of different positions and, you know, you want to talk about speed and athleticism. How about a guy who can, you know, chase a guy down and then block his dunk attempt and transition? You know what I mean? Like, he's there. There's a lot of athleticism and speed on the team as it's constructed. I do think a lot of it just comes down to stuff that has been, that has been really in vogue for a while now, right? Like versatility matters a lot against these guys because, you know, you look at the Thunder, right? If you give Shea somebody who he can pick on, if you give him somebody that he can, you know, score against, it's going to be a really hard. You're gonna have a really hard time stopping him even before you get to all the foul baiting stuff, right? Because he is the reason the foul baiting stuff works is because he is an extraordinary basketball talent. And I know he's not super popular right now, but that guy is an unbelievable talent. He's so good at scoring the basketball. You can't give him somebody easy to pick on because he will just. They'll be fine. And the Thunder have kind of that thing that the 2024 Celtics had where we do see them zip the ball around, we do see them move the ball and they've got shooters, they've got other offensive options in a lot of different places. So they're. I, I think, I, I know this sounds really reductive, but I think that if you're the, if you're looking to build a team, I think you've got to be. You've got to have stars. Like, you've got to be really good. And I know that's obvious, right? Like, that's, that's really. It just feels too easy. But that's how, that, that's how good these teams are, right? You're not going to beat them by putting the right. Oh, like, you know, like, like I gotta, I gotta, I gotta puzzle piece this together with the right, with the right role players. It's gonna come down to your stars. So, like, if, if Jalen and Jason are your stars, we know that is a championship team. We know that that team could win a title. Has won a title. I think it's worth giving that a shot. But I really just kind of think it comes down to the top end talent. Obviously you can put pieces around it, but I think Those pieces really just again come down to versatility. They come down to switchability. They come down to being able to play on both ends. Just again, stuff that has been really popular for 10 years now or for a while now.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna say that I think the most important player on a team is who that third person is, because it's not always a third star. Now, you can't do three stars, right? Sure, for sure. In the NBA, you know, so most teams at that level, you're not getting to the NBA Finals without saying, okay, it's, it's Shea, Gilders, Alexander, and well, you know, Jalen Williams is out. But you can say Chet Holmgren, you can say, you know, I think with, with this, with the Thunder, it, There's so many guys. That's the, the beauty of the Thunder is so many guys. But you can say with the spurs, you know, it's, it's Castle and women, Yama and you. You're getting big contributions from Vassell. They are a little bit unique in that Vesel and Harper and those guys are, they've got so many young guys that are stepping up. They're not classically constructed like the Celtics. There's no way the Celtics can get to that point unless they trade. Everybody start over, hit on a bunch of picks and have a bunch of 22 year olds. So there's no, there's no kind of combating what the spurs have either. Not directly. But the. Who's the third guy? Look, think about Denver, Jokic and Murray. Who's their third guy? You know, they, they were, you know, if Aaron Gordon's hurt, then they're, they're struggling. The, the Knicks, you know that it's Cat and Brunson. Who's the third guy that's stepping up? Is it Og. Is it Josh Hart? If, if you get a third guy stepping up consistently can. It could be a different guy every night even. But you need a third guy to step up in, in this level. At this level. Derrick White. What hurt the Celtics the most is Derrick White just couldn't make the other team pay. Namish K couldn't make the Sixers pay the way he made. Any one of these guys could have been the third guy. Yeah, but Derek missed shots. Neemi wasn't like the, the effective role man, and the sellers couldn't find him. Yeah, you know, like he, he had, he, he played well in, you know, for stretches, but when like Game 7, he had a stretch where he did play well and the Celtics had a chance even Without Tatum, like, so what the Celtics need more than finding a whole roster of speed, athleticism, power and all that stuff. You do need Derrick White, and we'll get to a Derrick White thing in this mailbag. But the, you need somebody, whether it's Derek, whether it's Baylor, whether it's Neemi, whether it's the player you get with a mid level exception, whether it's the, the player you get via trade. Somehow you need somebody to be that third guy to take the pressure off. So you can't just be like, well, we're going to load up and take away Jalen, Jalen Brown's drives. We're going to load up and take away Jason Tatum's drives. You know, and given the, given the benefit of hindsight, Tatum, Tatum, probably at full strength, at full health, maybe he, maybe he was a little bit more effective. He would be a little bit more effective driving. So without that taking away Jalen and, and forcing Jalen into kind of tough shots as much as he did a lot all year long, it's just that that was a tough thing for him to do in the playoffs without getting somebody else. They, they just when, when Embiid could ignore the Celtics bigs, Neemi, Luka Garza, Vuchovic for sure, like completely ignored Vujovic. Yeah, when you, when you get that and you can just pack the paint, that's no matter how, who you have even look at the shake of Alexander. He's great and all that stuff, but he hasn't had like this dominant series. People are talking about Caruso being the, the conference finals mvp. You know what I mean? Like, that's, and I think that's legitimate. I think he has a legitimate case to be the conference finals mvp. These playoffs are going to take away your best players. The defense is going to take away your best players and challenge your role players to step up. So more than anything, it's that third guy. Can that third guy be somebody that. When we say, all right, we're, we're going to pick our poison. Nope. Jalen, you're not going to beat us. Jason, you're not going to beat us. That leaves third guy, whoever it is, being like, all right, I get single coverage, I get their third or fourth, you know, level defender, whoever that is, however that person is built, that person had. It could be anybody. It could be any different number of people. And it might depend on some of these matchups. I, I just, that's the person I'm focused on.

[C]

Yeah, I think that's, I think That's a really good point. I also think the one other thing I would add for on the San Antonio side if I was building a, if I was constructing the roster, is I would make sure that I would like to have a beefy guy who I don't mind if he gets in foul trouble. Right? Because it's like, because one thing we're seeing, right, is like Hardenstein is having some, like, has had some success in the series just by. Yeah, you got, Call it physicality if we want. Yeah, call it, call it something. I would like to, I, you know, I probably want to have a guy like that and then another center. Like, I want, like, again, I want it to be okay if that guy gets in foul trouble. So then I want to have another very serviceable center who can take over when that guy inevitably picks up his fourth early in the third.

[A]

You know, this is why I don't think, like, maybe it's not, maybe you don't target an elite center at, at that, at that size. Maybe you just, I'm trying to figure out, like, how to defend Wembanyama and maybe it's just like you said, big, beefy dudes. Maybe, maybe you, maybe you, you know, do it in the draft. Maybe you get, you know, what's his name from Yukon, whose name just flew out of my head,

[C]

who's currently in the NBA.

[A]

Who. No, the, in the draft. In the draft from UConn. I, I, I, I literally just had his name and it just popped on a Terrace Reed. Thank you.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, a big, maybe you just draft that guy and, you know, you just throw him out there and he's, he's just a big 6 10, just NBA ready guy that can go out there and just bang on, on, on Wembanyama. And you have him and you have Keita and you have, you know, maybe you just go into it with, you know, three centers that could just wail away at Wembanyama and you keep them out on the perimeter and that's, that's how you do it. Maybe that, that's the best way to do it. So, I don't know. It's.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So many different options. But anyway, let's move on because one of the. Another option. Center option. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about Rob Williams. Does he make sense to come back here? We'll talk about it when we come back on the Lockdown Celtics podcast. Today's show is brought to you by Door Dash. Postseason's eating up because we're almost at the NBA finals. Door dash has a way to keep you in your bag all the way through. Whether you're watching the highlights, the tunnel fits just your favorite player. Door dash makes the whole season more fun because every player has that their bag. You have one too. With doordash your snacks are stocked, your gear is fresh and the watch party vibes absolutely on point. They're going to be watch parties for the finals and so if you're going to go to one, maybe you want to get snacks or cups or maybe somebody's always looking for a phone charger. You get an extra one delivered on DoorDash. If you're at home and you're watching late night interviews, you can get chips delivered or that dessert to kind of get you through. If you're watching the Knicks, maybe the Knicks are winning and that's unsettling. You want to kind of get that late night ice cream sundae. It's all available on doordash. From tipped off, tip off to overtime. Stay in your bag in order on doordash. Get snacks, drinks, gear, whatever gets you through this postseason delivered right to your door. Doordash in your bag all season long. Thank you for making lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Get your daily Celtics fix completely ad free by joining the everydayer club today. Start your 7 day free trial right now and get closer to the celtics without the interruptions. Check it out. Lockdown celtics.supercast.com I will put the link in the show notes lockdownceltics.supercast.com to claim your free trial. All right, one more question here that we have time for and it comes from Ted who, Nope, sorry, we'll get to Ted's later. This one comes from Matt actually. I believe Robert Williams is an unrestricted free agent. Celtics fans like myself would love Rob to come back to the Celtics. You think it's possible and doesn't make sense and just say I would love Rob to come back personally. Just have somebody in the locker room to talk to that gives good quotes and is a lot of fun and the vibes and all of that stuff. I would love to have Robert Williams around but Tom, does he make sense for the Celtics?

[C]

Yeah, I'm right there. I'm 100 with you. I love Rob. Rob has this like ability to just kind of like I, I, I think it might be like a southern thing to just kind of say stuff in a way that you're like, I just kind of like the way you said that, man. Like I don't Know, like, I like those words in that order that you put them in. Like, I kind of liked. I liked that a lot. So, you know, you know, might be a Louisiana thing. I don't know. Rob probably doesn't make a lot of sense. Sense. I love Rob. I love Rob. I'm right there with Matt here.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But, you know, played 59 games last year. Like, that's really good for Rob, right? 59 is really good. And like, do you want a guy where 59 games is really good and also 17 minutes a game the last two seasons? I guess. Yeah. Last two seasons. Yeah. The season before. Really injury riddled. Played 17 minutes. Like, he is not a, a. He's not a guy you can just kind of ride. You know, he's not a. He's not a guy who's just going to give you a ton of minutes, who's going to give you. Who's going to really help you work through, I guess, the doldrums of the regular season. I mean, maybe he helps you in the playoffs, but kind of like what we just said with Porzingis at the start, I think more so even than what we said with Porzingis at the start. You just don't know how healthy he's going to be. And in fact, you kind of can't really count on him to be healthy. It's a shame because healthy Rob Williams has such a great NBA career and such a memorable NBA career as it is. Celtics fans are going to remember him because everybody loved him and. But I, I don't think that it makes a lot of sense to bring him back. He.

[A]

He actually played more playoff minutes than Donovan Clingan. I think Clingan was hurt, though. No. Actually played clean, started five games, so never mind.

[C]

He.

[A]

He had, I think, a good enough playoffs for the Blazers where you, you would entertain the, the option. I don't know what he'll make in the off season. And I'll just say that this is going to apply to the Robert Williams question, to the inevitable Kristaps Porzingis questions, should Chris Hops Porzingis come back. All of that stuff. If it's on a minimum deal and they're okay with the minimum deal, then I'll, I'll consider it because minimums are. They're, they're palatable. You can, you. You can cut them. You can. It doesn't really matter that much. I will throw out there, though, that the Celtics. The tax line is important. Resetting the repeater tax is important. I talked about that with Keith Smith earlier this week. It, it makes sense from a team building standpoint. This isn't gotta save, gotta save Bill Chisholm some money. People will still think that that's the case, but it's resetting. Resetting. The, the amount of money that you spend on a team for a team like the Celtics that doesn't bring in the same number, same kind of revenue that team than teams that own their building, that, that's an important thing. And every dollar is important. Yeah. So I'm open to depending on how the rest of the team is constructed. If Rob is only going to get the minimum, then maybe. Right. If KP is only going to get the minimum, then maybe. But they're just so unreliable health wise. That can't be anything more than that. And honestly, the rest of the roster has to be constructed in a way that Rob or K.P. is a luxury.

[C]

Yeah. So that's right. That's right.

[A]

Take everybody, take. Construct your roster, put it together and have that be like, that's the team that you want to put together and that's the team you're rolling with. And if you've got two open roster spots and you want to give one of those guys one of those spots and like bet on the possibility of, hey, maybe Rob does find something for a season, maybe KP comes back and does find something for a season again. And sure, fine, but don't count on them. Plan for a life without them. And if they become a luxury, then great. Other than that, in any other scenario, I just can't, as much as I love both of those guys, I love both those guys, I can't, I can't justify any kind of scenario that's not pure luxury.

[C]

Yeah. And you also have to remember that like you take one of those spots away, that's one fewer spots. If you liked, for example, Ron Harper Jr. Right. That's, that's one fewer spot that you give to somebody else who you want to take a flyer on. Like, look, again, I'm, I'm, I'm all about it. If you want to, if you want to give Robert Williams a spot, like I, I love it, I'm about it. But do keep in mind that every spot that you know, every spot that you give to a luxury guy is a guy that you know again, you, that you can't pay who. You. Another guy who you might have liked who.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. So like, just to wrap it up, like in my, in my scenario as I, I, you know, threw out a few things in in the Keith Smith episode. So people, you got to go check those out just to, you know, get up to speed on what I said. But one of the scenarios is you can. You can pick up Ron Harper's contract, He's attractive enough, but not indispensable. Where you could put him and Sam Houser together and bring back a player that makes decent amount of money like that could be a way to trade for your mid level guy. So you can do. You can get two mid level guys and now it's, you know, two roster spots that go out, one comes back in. That's the. That's the extra roster spot. But you're 100, right? That if you have a young guy, maybe somebody that you draft, maybe somebody that, you know, maybe you want to keep Amari Williams on a standard contract and keep him up for your. For his development, like you, there is a risk that you. You don't want to mess with some of the other stuff. So even the luxury scenario is there, There. There's a downside to it. But, yeah, I think. I think that's. That's where we land. So. All right, 35 minutes into the show, we have not talked about Derek White, who people on YouTube can see, hey, that's Derek White's name. You haven't mentioned anything. I. I got three more questions, Tom, you know what that means. Bonus podcast. It's a good one.

[C]

Before we go, I need to apologize to my dad for not immediately coming up with Terrace Reed when you were referencing a Yukon center. So sorry, dad. That's on me.

[A]

Once again, proving to be a disappointment, just a disappointment to the Westerholm family. It is. Over and over, over and over. I know you're. I know both your parents listen, and so. It was just a joke. I'm just kidding. Your son is a fine young man, very smart and valuable. Valuable part of this podcast. Are they gone now? Okay. You suck, Tom.

[C]

No, man, it was. Yeah, we had to get that out of the way. That was good.

[A]

All right, all right, bonus podcast. Let's. Let's wrap this up and say, Tom, appreciate you as always for hopping on. Appreciate you. Appreciate everybody here listening. Yeah, I got three more mailbag questions. What? This is gonna be the Friday show. Maybe this will be a Saturday. Maybe on Saturday. I'll give you something. It's gonna be a little rainy around here in the New England area. Something to listen to, or maybe you're doing a little yard work, A little shorter show to kind of put on, so we'll do that. So another bonus podcast coming up. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for being an everydayer again. 7 day free trial in lockdown celtics.supercast.com Now I would love it if you shared the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.