Payton Pritchard's FUTURE | Jayson Tatum's RETURN | BEST Celtics handles

Summary

Locked On Celtics – Payton Pritchard's FUTURE | Jayson Tatum's RETURN | BEST Celtics Handles

Host: John Karalis (with guest Tom Westerholm)
Date: September 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Locked On Celtics podcast features another round of "Flashcard Friday," in which host John Karalis and guest Tom Westerholm tackle a rapid-fire list of Celtics and basketball topics sourced from listener submissions. With training camp and media day just around the corner, this loose, conversational episode covers the future for Payton Pritchard, looks ahead to Jayson Tatum's injury return, and debates the best ball-handlers in Celtics history, among other fun stories and memories from years covering the team.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Payton Pritchard's Future (04:32–10:00)

• Career Arc & Longevity

  • John and Tom discuss the relatively short NBA lifespan of smaller guards like Payton Pritchard and temper expectations for his long-term place in Boston or beyond.

    • John Karalis: “Small guards like Payton don't last as long in the league. So...enjoy what you got now, because this is the best we’re going to get and it’s going to be great.” (04:32)
    • Predicts Pritchard’s peak may be “Sixth Man of the Year” in the upcoming season, but doubts he’ll have a long career in his 30s.

  • Tom Westerholm: Adds a positive spin, noting Pritchard’s skill, not just speed, and outstanding shooting, predicting he "sticks around longer than some small guards" and will be “remembered really, really fondly in Boston.”

    • “That guy was just a hooper...Hit a half-court shot in the NBA Finals.” (06:43)

• Coaching or AAU Future

  • Both hosts see Pritchard as a classic “basketball lifer”:
    • John Karalis imagines a post-playing career as a passionate college coach, possibly back at Oregon.
      • “I think Payton Pritchard could become a Hall of Fame college basketball coach...Go back to Oregon, coach the Ducks, win three national titles.” (07:48)
    • Tom Westerholm pitches an AAU program or high school angle, highlighting Pritchard’s love for pickup and youth basketball. (09:08–09:49)
    • They agree: His post-career is certain to be rooted in “the purest form of basketball.”

2. Retrospective: "The Jays" (10:06–14:49)

• Brief comedic confusion about whether the listener’s flashcard about “The Jays” referenced the podcast’s own history or the Jayson Tatum/Jaylen Brown era.
• Podcast Origins Story: John recounts the journey of Locked On Celtics:
  • Started in 2017 with J. King, then joined the nascent Locked On Podcast Network.
  • John ultimately became the solo host after J. and Sam Packard left for other opportunities.
    • “So Jay and Packard were like, yeah, we’re leaving to go do that. And I did. I took over this podcast myself ... been doing it, you know, as the primary person ever since.” (14:16)
  • Tom describes his own roots at Celtics Town, then Mass Live, before joining the pod.
• The hosts joke that the real retrospective on Jayson and Jaylen’s careers is “not needed yet,” since their Celtics story is far from over.

3. Best Handles in Celtics History (17:45–22:21)

• Kyrie Irving is immediately eliminated for the sake of discussion, as he’s the obvious answer.
• Top Contenders:
  • Tom Westerholm: “I think number two is actually pretty easy. It’s Rondo, right?” (17:45)
    • Praises Rondo’s shifty, creative, purposeful handle and basketball IQ (“so shifty, quick thinking...not just flair but impact”).
  • John Karalis: Offers a thoughtful historic perspective for Bob Cousy as an “honorable mention.”
    • “The rules back then were very specific. You could only bounce the ball from the top...Yet somehow he dribbled so much better than everybody else. If he was born in 1990, he’d be as good as anybody handling the ball.” (19:14 & 20:41)
  • Tom commends John’s fair take: “Your Koozie case is about as fair as I’ve heard for a guy from the 60s.” (22:21)

4. Jayson Tatum's Return Timeline (23:13–31:20)

• Tom Westerholm (23:32): Initially predicts Tatum won’t push for a return until next season, citing team context and caution around his injury recovery.
• John Karalis (26:17–29:32): Lays out a more optimistic, evidence-based timeline:
  • Injury was May 12; similar surgeries see NFL players return in ~6 months.
  • Adding a “basketball tax,” he projects 8–9 months— “February to March...coming out of the All-Star break, Jason Tatum returning, somewhere late February, early March.”
    • “If he is 100% healthy, then sitting out an extra two, three, four months means zero. ...If March 1st comes around and they say he is 100% healed...sitting him till June, July doesn’t add anything.” (29:32)
  • Advocates for return to test explosiveness, work on confidence, and retool if needed ahead of future seasons.
• Tom: Concedes, revising his stance and agreeing with John after this reasoning.

5. Favorite Moments Covering the Celtics (31:46–38:00)

Tom Westerholm

• Playoff Press Conference With Isaiah Thomas’s Son: Candid, tender moment at the podium (31:46).
• Robert Williams’s Wallet Saga: Lost wallet twice right after draft, missing summer league—Tom enjoyed writing about it (32:41).
• Connecting with Jayson Tatum: Early-career conversation about fatherhood and road life, relating as young dads—“There are precious few opportunities, especially with the star players, to just kind of be a human with some of these guys.” (37:22)

John Karalis

• Marcus Smart’s "Stuck Ball" & MVP Chants: What started as a light question about Smart rescuing balls became a moving story about Marcus feeling accepted by Boston and the fans.
  • “He turned it into this big, poignant thing...He took that as like, people in Boston love me now, and I’ve made all these strides, and I was like — oh my god.” (33:39)
• Jalen Brown’s Deadpan Response: On asking about “nameless, faceless opponents” rhetoric—Jalen: “Your guess is as good as mine, John. I don’t know what the f— you’re talking about.” (36:00)

6. Shout-Out: Jeff "Twist" Twist (38:02–39:11)

• Celebratory nod to Celtics PR legend Jeff Twist on making the Hall of Fame; remembered with affection and humor for his behind-the-scenes role and reliability to the media.

7. Looking Forward: Last Flashcard Friday (39:11–40:00)

• The hosts tease one final Flashcard Friday (14 flashcards remaining), vowing to go “super lightning round” to get through them all.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Karalis on Pritchard: “He's not playing into his 40s...Enjoy what you got right now because like, this is the best we're going to get and it's going to be great.” (04:32)
• Westerholm on Pritchard Memory: “He'll probably just be living on Cape Cod, you know...But he's too much of a Hooper.” (07:48)
• Westerholm on Rondo: “In terms of just being so shifty, quick thinking...Rondo was exceptional. Really fun player to watch in terms of handle.” (18:02)
• Karalis on Bob Cousy: “You could not be that much better than everybody else dribbling the ball...without being special.” (20:04)
• Karalis on Tatum return: “If he is 100% healed, then...sitting out an extra two, three, four months means zero. He doesn’t get healthier when he’s healthy. When he’s healthy, he’s healthy.” (29:32)
• Tom on Reporting: “There are precious few opportunities, especially with the star players, to just kind of be a human with some of these guys.” (37:22)
• Jalen Brown’s deadpan: “Your guess is as good as mine, John. I don’t know what the f— you’re talking about.” (36:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:32–10:00 – Payton Pritchard’s Future
• 10:06–14:49 – Retrospective: ‘The Jays’ / Podcast origin
• 17:45–22:21 – Best Handles in Celtics History (non-Kyrie division)
• 23:13–31:20 – Jayson Tatum’s Return: Recovery Timeline
• 31:46–38:00 – Favorite moments covering the Celtics
• 38:02–39:11 – Jeff Twist Hall of Fame shoutout

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Tone & Format

• Style: Fun, irreverent, friendly, knowledgeable basketball banter.
• Language: Light, conversational, with a blend of nostalgia, humor, and expert insight.

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This episode delivers a classic loose and lively offseason pod as John and Tom riff on beloved Celtics personalities, speculate about the future, and share behind-the-scenes stories that will entertain diehard and casual Celtics fans alike.

Transcript

[Tom Westerholm]

Foreign.

[John Corralis]

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[Tom Westerholm]

No way.

[John Corralis]

Jim this is incredible, but you can.

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[John Corralis]

We're almost done with Flashcard Friday. There's a tiny, tiny list left, but you have submitted these random topics. We don't know what's coming so we're gonna rapid fire. We're going to freestyle our answers right now on the Lockdown Celtics podcast.

[Tom Westerholm]

Huh? Yep, yep.

[Lockdown Celtics Intro Voice]

Beam ever ready. It's the seas. Who else could it be? What they gonna say now screaming like J.T. corralis we kept the madness every game, every practice, prime time Depp and D. White on the sideline. Ren and Jays how we started raising Ben. That's how we finish. Locked on Celtics pot Home of the winner.

[John Corralis]

Hey there. Welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics Podcast right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics. I talk about them Monday through Friday throughout the season. Maybe it'll be a sixth or seventh day if they plan the weekend. So just subscribe wherever you get your podcast. The show is free and available everywhere on any podcasting app. It's also on YouTube get into the comment section. Share your thoughts with your fellow everydayers, those of you who are with me every Monday through Friday. And with me, I'm John Corralis, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal. I've written a couple of books about this team. I've, I've covered this team for about 20 years now. So we just, we're going to have fun all year long. We're going to have fun today with the Flashcard Friday on a show that's brought to you by FanDuel. Place your first $5 bet on FanDuel. If it wins, you get 300 bucks in bonus bets to use across the apps. Download the app today. We've been doing this all summer. We got two Flashcard Fridays left. This one and next week and then media days here. We're going to get into a lot of topics. Flashcard Friday has served us well. We've got very few topics left, but you've submitted these. We're going at them blind. When I say we, I mean me and Tom Westerpod. What's going on? Tom Westerholm. How you doing, man? I'm good, man. How are you? I am great. What I love about this little tiny list means basketball is around the corner. NBA basketball is almost here. We're going to have new things to talk about. All the theoreticals are going to go away. It's gonna be fun. This has been great. I, I personally, I've enjoyed Flashcard Fridays. I'm looking forward to bringing them back next year. I do, I think next year we'll do, like, the separation of the basketball type questions. And like, these are like the last few, like, goofy type of questions, so I like to save those for last.

[Tom Westerholm]

But I like, I, I would like, I would like the listeners to know that I disagree with that method. I think, I think it should be random. I think full democracy fully. You know, I think I, I think what you're doing, quite frankly, is authoritarianism.

[John Corralis]

Well, I'd like to answer that directly, but for fear of my job, I'm going to move on to our first topic here, which is Peyton Pritchard's future. Peyton Pritchard's future, which I think this year might involve him being a starter, but he is 27 and he feels like he should be younger than that. But he played four years in college, so you know his future. Listen, I don't want to bring us down right away, but small guards like Peyton don't last as long in the league. So we're like, I'll just say when it comes to Peyton's future, enjoy what you got right now because like, this is the best we're going to get and it's going to be great. 6 Man of the year. This year is going to be a great year for him and I'm sure he's going to try to fight this, but like 31, 32 year old Peyton Pritchard, he's not playing into his 40s.

[Tom Westerholm]

No.

[John Corralis]

In the league. You know what I mean? He's not like that. So I think, I think maybe this is more specifically how long does he stick around with the Celtics. But I don't know how long that's going to be. Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

A few more years.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I think I, I think the thing about Pritchard, like there's. So that's the, that's the kind of less optimistic way of looking at it. And I agree in principle with what you're saying, but I also think you can look at it from a slightly different perspective too, of like, okay, Peyton Pritchard's future is in, you know. Yeah. However many years. A couple probably. I don't think he's gonna like retire a Celtic, you know, I don't think that that's what we're like.

[John Corralis]

Yeah. Right here.

[Tom Westerholm]

But I think that if you look at Peyton Pritchard's future in terms of like how he's going to be remembered. Right. Like, like, you know, if he's got four or five more years in the NBA, six more years in the NBA, like, I think that's probably pushing it to. To about how far.

[John Corralis]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Reasonable, you know, because. Because the thing about Pritchard is that he is a good player. He is a good shooter. He's got, you know, he isn't just like a small guy who's super fast. And when his speed, you know, deserts him, you know, he won't be able to, you know, participate like that. That's not really who he is. I mean, he's, he's. He's pretty quick, but he's not like, he's not like blazing fast to where if he loses a step, he's no longer useful for a team. He's super aggressive. He's, you know, like, he's a super three point shooter. He's very, very skilled. I think he'll be able to stick around longer than some small guards, but he is still a small guard. And when he's done, he's gonna be remembered as, man, you know what, that guy was just a Hooper. That guy in the ring, that guy Hit a half court shot in the NBA Finals. Like, you know, it's, it's like, I think his future, you know, like, I think he's got several more NBA years and then his future is to be remembered really, really fondly in Boston. And he'll probably just be living on Cape Cod, you know, Doesn't Payton Pritchard seem like a Cape Cod kind of retiring?

[John Corralis]

He could be, but you know what? I think he's too much of a Hooper. He loves basketball too much. You want to, you want to go deeper into his future. I think Peyton Pritchard could become a hall of fame college basketball coach where he's, I don't think he's an NBA coach. I think his passion, his fire is perfect for college. So I think that he's like, go back to Oregon. Go in, like, coach the Ducks and become their coach like, 10 years from now and just win three national titles and just, just be, you know, like that, that high intensity, just, you know. Yeah. Always high fiving guys coming out of the timeouts. Like, I think, I think that's like, Pritchard's gonna be like, wow, great pro career, incredible college basketball coach.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay, I'll do you one better. What do we know about Peyton Pritchard? We know about, like, as a basketball guy off the NBA court. Right. We know one, he likes to, he likes to hoop at the park with kids. Right, right. Two, he likes, like, the disorganized getting buckets pro am thing. I think Peyton Pritchard starts his own AAU program.

[John Corralis]

Okay.

[Tom Westerholm]

And you know, you want unorganized basketball with tons of buckets. Aau. You know, you want to be, like, with the youth. Aau. Perfect.

[John Corralis]

You know, it's funny because I was going to say high school coach, but I was like, no, I, I, I can see him in college, but, you know, I like where you're going because there's the recruiting element. I think he wants the purest form of basketball. So he's, yeah, he's gonna go to high school and take, like, me. Yeah. The top high school guys. He's gonna get, like, he loves Oregon. He loves Oregon. So go back there and get, get guys into that pipeline.

[Tom Westerholm]

And, and what, and what company is in Oregon? Nike. They have a huge presence.

[John Corralis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think we saw it. Yep.

[John Corralis]

That's his future. You're welcome.

[Tom Westerholm]

Whoever asked about Peyton Pritchard, wondering about was, will he start an AAU program?

[John Corralis]

And.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Yes.

[John Corralis]

We didn't expect it to go down this road, but there we are. Oh, that's interesting. A Jay's retrospective. A retrospective of.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, started. He started at Mass Live. Well, no, he started at Celtics town.

[John Corralis]

The Jays. Was that about us? I don't know. You know, said Jay's. I don't know. Is it us? Me and Jay, the Rangers?

[Tom Westerholm]

Is it the raining Jay's retrospective? I. I can put this one out. You want. You want. You want to do.

[John Corralis]

No, I thought that was about Jalen and Jason Retros. I don't know.

[Tom Westerholm]

What kind of retrospective do I. I don't know. Like, yeah, they. Like, do you want us to just talk about. Well, they were drafted number three, and. Yeah, you know, like, what? I feel like I just threw the card.

[John Corralis]

I can't get it now. I don't know where it went, but it did say J apostrophe S.

[Tom Westerholm]

This is the range of you, man. I. I think this might be this. You might have to. You might have to do a little retrospective here.

[John Corralis]

Okay, sure. Wow. That talk about being caught off guard. Well, I. I will say that, like, started out 2017, J. King called me up. I remember walking. I was living in Long Island City, New York. I remember walking down the block, J. King calling me up. I'm like, what the hell is J. King calling me for? And it was. I remember it was so funny. So, yeah, he was. He was doing Celtics Town and going back to my Reds army days. We. We had had a partnership with T Mobile. We were a little flush with cash. I was like, hey, I want to start buying some of these blogs. I want to consolidate some of this talent. And I tried to buy Celtics Down. I remember being in Orlando at summer league, man. That's right.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's why. That's where I got my start writing about.

[John Corralis]

Yeah, man. Yeah, that's. Wait, was Celtics Town what. What Zach Lowe started?

[Tom Westerholm]

No, that was Celtics Hub. I also worked for a while, but, yes, I started at Celtics Town. But, yes, that was Celtics Hub.

[John Corralis]

So. So anyway, so Jay. Jay called me up and said, do you want to do a podcast? I was like, hell, yeah, I want to do a podcast. Like, I've been dying to do a podcast. I'd been doing podcasts with Chuck McKinney and on Reds army, and I did a little, like, a little stint as, like, on Celtics Celtics Talk. Was it Celtics Talk live or. Yeah, so Jay Jay called me up, and we just started doing this weekly thing, and it was, you know, we're, like, screwing around on Skype. And then shortly after that, David Locke called me up and said, hey, do you guys want to join this. We're starting this network thing. And Jay and I were like, yeah, sure. And so we decided to join. And then after that, it was just like, oh, God, we're doing five days a week. What the hell are we doing? We don't know what we're doing. We brought. We brought Sam Packard in. He'd been doing stuff with ei and just to be a third person, just so two of us could be there at some point. And then. And then after that, I don't know what the it was. I. I was working in New York City. I was producing and reporting at Fox 5 News in. In New York City, and which, you know, at the same time, we're doing this. This thing. And I decided to make the leap to come to. To come back to Boston. And I started. I started saying, I'm going to do full time, this podcast full time. I'm gonna be on every show. And then. So I was a constant presence. And then Jay. Fast forward to Jay leaving for the Athletic, and they started their own podcast network. So Jay and. And Packard were like, yeah, we're leaving to go do that. And I did. I took over this podcast myself. And that was, you know, five, six years ago, something like that, whatever it was. And I've been doing it, you know, as the primary person ever since. And somewhere along the way, you and I started working together at Mass Live, and you start hopping on the podcast, and here we are. That's the retrospective. That's.

[Tom Westerholm]

They might have met. They might have met the Jays, but.

[John Corralis]

I like this better.

[Tom Westerholm]

I feel like this was more productive people, probably.

[John Corralis]

What do we need? Jalen and Jason, retrospect.

[Tom Westerholm]

We don't need a retrospective for them yet.

[John Corralis]

No. In the middle of their careers.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, there's still being written.

[John Corralis]

All right, let's do this. Best handles in Celtics history. Not Kyrie. We'll do that when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by Open Phone. If you're running a business, you know every missed call is money left on the table. I've literally just cleared up a plumbing issue in my house, though, I was down to my fourth call to someone who actually was able to get to the phone. And you know that if you miss the call, you miss the business. So that's why you need Open Phone, because Open Phone is going to get you that. It's going to streamline your system. It's going to get you that answered phone. It's the number one business phone system, and you can do it all from an app on your phone or your computer. It lets you manage your business calls and text from a single app. There's a shared inbox feature so your team can hop into conversations instantly without missing a beat. There's an AI agent that handles after hours calls, gets answers common questions, and captures leads so you never miss a customer. You got to get Open Phone if you're running a business and right now you can get 20% off your first six months. @openphone.com LockedDonNBA that's O P E N P H o n e openphone.com lockedonnba if you have existing numbers with another service, Open Phone will port them over at no extra charge. Open Phone no missed calls, no missed customers.

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[John Corralis]

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Go check out Lockdown NBA and Lockdown NBA Game Night. I've already recorded Lockdown NBA Game Night. There's a Jason Tatum segment in there because there's a little mention of him on the radio where the Celtics are happy with his progress. So one of the topics in the Friday Locked on NBA Game Night is Jason Tatum's potential return and a whole segment on the Celtics there. So if you want that, go check out the Friday edition of Locked on NBA Game Night. I will be moving to the Wednesday show with Jake Madison. But check it out. Locked On NBA Game Night. Locked on NBA Two podcasts on the same feedback. Check it out after you're done with this podcast. All right, let's get back to Tom Westerholm. Tom, who has the best handles in Celtics history? Not named Kyrie Irving.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, I'm glad that they. I'm glad that we're kind of. Kyrie is clearly the answer, right? Like, it's like, I'm sorry, I'm like, yeah, I know people don't love that. But it's Just the honest truth, I think number two is actually pretty easy. It's Rondo, right?

[John Corralis]

Sure. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like, I think it's not that hard. You know, I think, you know, you go back in terms of just being so shifty, be, you know, quick, quick thinking, you know, because I think so much of. Of handle is like. Is feel and. And sort of flair and it. It goes beyond. But. But being able to do it in a way that. That matters to the play. You know, you're not that gif. Of that little kid who's like, you know, doing like the spider dribble in front of a defender, who's like, looking at him and being like, what are you doing here? You know, like, not. You know, I think back to like Rondo when he used to do that, you know, bring the ball all the way around his body, make it look like he's throwing a behind the back pass, but then he's just like spins it the rest of the way around his body and goes in for a layup. Like. I think he stole that from. I want to say it was. I want to say it was white chocolate. I think he stole that move from. But one way or the other, like, Rondo was. Rondo was exceptional.

[John Corralis]

Sure.

[Tom Westerholm]

Really fun player to watch in terms of handle.

[John Corralis]

That's. That's. I think that's the answer. I'm gonna be the old guy. I'm gonna be the guy who wrote the history book.

[Tom Westerholm]

Don't do it. Go ahead.

[John Corralis]

Bob Koozie.

[Tom Westerholm]

I hate that.

[John Corralis]

Okay, here's the thing about Bob Koozie. The rules back then were very specific. You can only bounce the ball from the top. You couldn't manipulate it from the sides the way they do now. So my just. I'm going to throw this out there. That Rondo and Kyrie, when they are back. If they were back in the Bob Cousy days, they would have dribbled the exact same way as Bob Cousy, because those were the rules. Okay.

[Tom Westerholm]

They might have used both hands and.

[John Corralis]

Looked up a little more, but sure, okay, that's okay. You're thinking of that one clip. But like, that's he. I'm just saying.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

You can't. You can't be. When the rules are what they were.

[Tom Westerholm]

Sure, sure.

[John Corralis]

You could not be that much better than everybody else dribbling the ball. Right. Without being special. Dribbling the ball. I'm just gonna say, sure, sure. That based on the rules, like, everybody had to do the top of the little. Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

For sure, you're right. Yep.

[John Corralis]

Yet somehow he dribbled so much better than everybody else. And I'm like, listen, if he were put in a time machine and brought here, he'd look ridiculous, of course.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corralis]

But if he was born in 1990 and was playing basketball in the mid 2000s and it was in. In the NBA in the 2010s and was. Whoa. And grew up with the ability to palm the ball and manipulate it, he would have been as good as anybody handling the ball. I'm just saying that I'm putting it out there.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

The answer is. The answer is still Rondo. I'm just putting an honorable mention out for why Bob Cousy still matters.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think you made a Bob Koozie case that I can respect. I. So props because I. One thing that I do get annoyed when we've talked before about how hard it is to think about shifting eras, and I think that one thing that happens in sports is that the longer a sport is in the zeitgeist, the more skilled people get technically. Right? And you know, I mean, how many times, even, even athletically, right. Like how many times have you seen some 13 year old kid throwing down, you know, a 360 windmill dunk and just being like, what is happening? Like, how is, how is this possible? And it's like that, that just, that happens organically over the course of a sport. Right. And so like, to say that somebody from the 60s has the best handle is just wrong and doesn't necessarily take into account that progression. But your K. That case that you made for Koozie is about as fair. It's about as fair as I, as I heard for a, a guy from the 60s. So.

[John Corralis]

Yeah, okay, great. Just a little story about what you were just talking about. I. Not, you know, probably at this point, like 10 years ago, I was at a. An alumni high school alumni game, Shea High School in Pateka, which is going away sadly. Back when I was playing, like, nobody dunked. Yeah, like a guy who dunked like once, like I did. I didn't dunk in high school. I didn't dunk till I was in college in a game. And. But we went back for this alumni game and we're warming up and everything and these dudes are throwing each other alley oops and stuff. They're like catching it and like rocking. I was like, when did everybody in high school get this? Because we were like one person dunked in a game and the whole building exploded and now these guys are throwing these down, like, okay. Oh, that was nice.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

What?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. So, yeah, dunks used to be. Dunks used to matter, man.

[John Corralis]

Like, it was crazy. Oh, man. Let's see if we can sneak this in. Oh, okay. When does Jason Tatum return? A more contemporary question. When does Jason Tatum return? Let's. Let's sneak that in right real quick.

[Tom Westerholm]

All right. I think. I think next year. I. I think that beginning of next year, he's. He's fully healthy. He's ready to go. I don't think they push it this year. I think that I. I'm. That's just my. That's. I could see him coming back. I could see him. Him demanding to come back. I don't think that Jason Tatum will be happy if. If he doesn't come back this year. I think that, like. But I think that the Celtics are going to be middling enough that him coming back will feel like pushing it unnecessarily. So I'll. I'll go for. I'll. I'll. I'm almost talking myself out of it, but I'm gonna go with next year.

[John Corralis]

I'll give you my answer when we come back.

[Tom Westerholm]

All right.

[John Corralis]

You're wrong, Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

I. I'm. I'm afraid that I might be. After. After giving my answer, I'm like, man, I don't. I think I'm wrong.

[John Corralis]

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[John Corralis]

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Hope you're enjoying a flashcard. Friday mailbag questions on Monday and throughout the course of the season. Maybe not on Mondays when the season starts, but still getting mailbag Questions@john corrales.com mailbag John corrales.com mailbag that's where you get your questions in. So please submit those. Tom I think Jason Tatum does return this year. Injury was suffered on May 12, so June, July, August, September, October, November is six months. The speed bridge surgery has gotten NFL players back in six months. That's November. Let's add the basketball tax because basketball is a different story. December, January, that's seven months. February is eight months. Eight months is not only, I think, a more realistic timeline, it's kind of the timeline that we heard when Jason was, you know, we heard like Jason was telling his dad, like, oh, it's gonna be like eight months, all that stuff. I think a February to March return date is.

[Tom Westerholm]

February is nine months, by the way. Yeah. So for the record, February is nine months.

[John Corralis]

Did I miss one?

[Tom Westerholm]

You did. Yeah, you did. You counted two as one. Yeah. Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Okay. So great. So then, yeah, February is like, that's right there. Yeah, it's, it's as I've said before, and I said it on the Locked On NBA game night podcast. Guy in his prime, his absolute physical prime.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Goes to the best. The best surgeon in the business gets this innovative technology, innovative surgery that is known to get professional athletes back to professional Sports in shorter time. And he gets that surgery right away. When we know the quicker you get the surgery, the better it helps the healing. I just, I cannot, I just can't see. Well, I can see because an Achilles injury and all of the stuff that people said, well, they're not going to be so good and all that stuff. Like, I get it, I get it, I get it.

[Tom Westerholm]

But nah. Yeah.

[John Corralis]

All Star break feels like coming out of the All Star break. Jason Tatum returning somewhere late February, early March. I think that's going to be where I see him returning. And I think that's going to be good. And as I've said a million times, I'll say it again, not rushing him back. Not rushing him back. That is the actual timeline where he is 100 healed, where every trainer, every doctor, every person who is involved says, yes, he is ready to go. If he is 100% ready to go. And if he's 100 healed, then him sitting out an extra two, three, four months means zero. It doesn't help him anymore. He doesn't get healthier when he's healthy, he's healthy. I need people to understand this. If March 1st comes around, they say he is 100 healed, 100 healthy, and 100 ramped up.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

To return to end, there's going to be a, a month long process of scrimmaging and all that stuff. If on March 1st he ticks all of those boxes sitting him until June, July doesn't add anything. So I think that's when he returns and it's going to be important for him to return. Knock off the rust. Knock off that, that mental, that mental thing where you're like, you got to get past that mental hurdle of, oh, my God, my body just, my leg just exploded on me. Doing a natural basketball thing. You got to get past that. You. And the point that I made on lockdown, ba I'm giving away all my locked on NBA stuff. If Tatum comes back and realizes, oh, crap, I'm not as explosive, oh, crap, I've lost these two things from my bag. Isn't it better for him to find out in March?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corralis]

So he, in June, July, August, September, he can start to be like, what new things do I need to add so I can go back to being myself and like, just a little bit different? So I think, I think all of that stuff is important.

[Tom Westerholm]

No. And I think you can look to Gordon Hayward's injury, too, to be like, okay, look at how bad Gordon was that first season back. Like, and like, he didn't he never really got it back. But like that, especially that first season, it was just a disaster. And like, if you're, if you're, you know, if you can get that out of the way during a season, that doesn't matter much. Exactly. There's a lot to be said for that. I've actually, as I was talking, I was like, no, I don't think this any, you know, like, this is what happens when you kind of freestyle a podcast. Is that like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Corralis]

You know, I love it. You know, I love it. I love that that's how I'm, I'm.

[Tom Westerholm]

Actually fully on board. I, I don't think what I thought before. And here we are.

[John Corralis]

All right, let's get into some of the more fun, these are the fun topics. Shuffle, shuffle, shuffle, shuffle, shuffle. All right, let's get to the first one. Let's knock these out. Oh, this is a good one. Favorite moment covering the Celtics. We've both covered the Celtics. Do you have a favorite moment that sticks out?

[Tom Westerholm]

I can, I can get us going and then I might come up with another one. But I remember I was, I was in the press conference room during, during the Celtics during playoff runs. They, they kind of moved press conference rooms around, you know, to accommodate more media. And there was, there was a big podium and Isaiah Thomas was sitting up at the, at the press conference interviewing his son. And I was just kind of like sitting in there and I was like, this is gold. And like when somebody's up there like that, it's like, it's okay if you record them. Like, it's like, like you're super in public if you're out like that. So I, I don't know, I took a little video of it and put it online and exploded because it was pretty, pretty sweet, pretty cute. So I really enjoyed that. I also really enjoyed, I, I probably told this story on the podcast before, but when Robert Williams was drafted, I was, I, I was, I went to everything, right? And I went to, I went to a community event that he was doing and I, I knew that he had, he had lost his wallet and he was gonna be late for a flight and so they had to like, really like work to, to get Robert Williams wallet back, which was really awesome. And then I, I, I'm trying to, I'm quick googling to see if I can get back exactly what happened, but I'm pretty sure he lost his wallet a second time in a two day span. Yes, yes. So he lost his wallet again, which was why he missed Summer league. I believe he missed, like, the first day because he. Because he had lost his wallet a second time and was like, oh, no, I gotta find my wallet. So anyway, I really enjoyed writing that story about Robert Williams just being completely unable to hang on to his wallet. That was. That was fun.

[John Corralis]

That's hilarious. That's awesome. My favorite was the Marcus smart moment where he had had, like, two straight games where the ball got stuck up above the basket and he went out, like, in one game, it was like he just. He was on the floor and he went. And he just got the. The broom and he knocked it off. And people, like, cheered or whatever. In the next game it happened was like, either the game later or whatever it was. It was very, very shortly after that, the team. The opposing team chose the different basketball. So the. The Celtics were shooting on the wrong.

[Tom Westerholm]

The.

[John Corralis]

The opposite basket in the second half, which was in front of their own bench. And Marcus was on the bench and the ball got stuck again. And, like, Marcus had just saved the ball, like, the other day, and so he went out again, and then everybody cheered and went crazy, and so whatever. Okay, so that happened. So I jokingly asked Brad Stevens after the game. I was like, did you know that Marcus had this ability? And he's like, yeah, you know, he's, like, joking about that. And I'm like, I'm. We're working at Mass Live. I'm thinking I'm gonna do this silly little 400 word, goofy thing, put a funny headline on it, and hopefully it gets some traction. I talked to Marcus about it, and he turns it into this. Like, people in Boston never believed in me at first. And then this just goes to show how far I've grown, that everybody's behind me now. And he turned it into this big, like, poignant thing. Like, that was a. A moment for him. I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting the best quote ever. And I was like, that was literally. It's still my favorite story that I've ever written because it was so unexpected. And I'm standing there at Marcus's locker, and everybody's off, like, waiting for the scrum. And as he's talking to me, I'm like, oh, my God. No one knows the stuff I'm getting right now. And this is so cool because it meant so much because. Because the thing I left out, the second time he did it, he. He got MVP chance. People were like, joe's like, mvp. And. And. But he took that as, like, people in Boston love me now, and I've made all these strides, and I was like, oh, my God. That was awesome. Yeah, My other. My other favorite moment quickly was IME Udoka had this thing where he. He was talking about nameless, faceless opponents, and I was like, okay, so it was some sort of, like, I don't know, metaphor or something like that. He was. So I thought that there was something that he talked to the team about nameless, faceless opponents, and I thought it was, like, some sort of inspirational thing. And we were on Zoom at that time, so I asked Jalen about it, and he was like, say that again. I was like, yeah, he may talk to us about nameless, faceless opponents. Is that something he's talked to you guys about? He's like, your guess is. Your guess is as good in mine, John. I don't know what the f. You're talking about. I was like, that was so funny. I was like. Like, he has literally no clue. I don't know where IME came up with it, but I was like, oh, this is not some inspirational thing. Jayla's like, I. No clue what you're talking about, John. All right, let's wrap it up.

[Tom Westerholm]

I got one more. I got one more really quick. Another favorite one was the first. Early in. In my career, I was. I was a young father traveling around on the road, you know, like an infant son back at home, and Jason Tatum's son is about the same age as my son, and I. I got to, like. I got to be one of the first people to talk to him about Deuce, and it just.

[John Corralis]

It was really cool.

[Tom Westerholm]

It was really cool to be like. Like it was as a reporter. There are precious few opportunities, especially with the star players, to just kind of be a human with some of these guys and to just kind of be, like, two young dads with young kids who are on the road a lot, talking about your kids together, you know, really cool. That made for a really. I really liked that story, and I liked talking to Jason about it, and obviously, he was. He was a lot younger than I was, you know, at the time, but it was, like. It was a real connecting moment for me, at least. I don't know, you know, whatever. Like. But it was really cool to. To get to do that with him. That was.

[John Corralis]

That is cool.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

All right, we're gonna wrap it up on Twist. Twist, which is famously the Robert Williams exclamation from a few seasons ago after he was done with all of his zooms. Jeff Twist, Celtics PR guru, legend, hall of Famer. Now Rob Would always wrap up all of his zooms with Twist. I have a shirt somewhere with Robert Williams, you know, a bubble saying twists. That's just a way to shout out Jeff Twist for making the hall of Fame. And super amazing that that dude is legit good person and super helpful over my time there and one of the most deserving talk about, you know, we, we have all these conversations about people who are like, do they belong in the hall of Fame? And blah, blah, blah. If there's one person associated with the Celtics in the NBA, that belongs to the hall of Fame. Jeff Twist. Seriously, is that dude. So congratulations to him. Super cool.

[Tom Westerholm]

For sure.

[John Corralis]

For sure. All right, Tom, we got one more flashcard Friday. And look, we got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 topics.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think we got to try it. I think we gotta go lightning round next time.

[John Corralis]

Super lightning round. Okay, let's try. Okay. Next Friday, no bs. I'm talking to myself because I'm the long winded one for sure.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, I'm the one who brought it back for one more favorite moment to covering the Celtics anecdote.

[John Corralis]

That's true. We do like to talk. There's no doubt about it.

[Tom Westerholm]

Have you ever considered being a podcaster, Corrales?

[John Corralis]

Is that it's, it's, it's in there.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's.

[John Corralis]

It's in the mix. It's in the mix. Uber driver might end up winning out in the end, but it's in the mix.

[Tom Westerholm]

Famously, people love when their Uber drivers talk to them a lot.

[John Corralis]

That's, that's, that's gonna be like, I thought about, like, how does my love for talking, how can it really pay off? Driving random people around who do not care about me? I think that's going to be the way to really hit that home. So, yeah, for sure. Thanks for talking with me. Yeah, Tom, always appreciate you, man. Appreciate you, man. Tom Westerholm, everybody find his Celtics [e-mail]. my work is, of course at Boston Sports Journal. Of course. This podcast is free and available every Monday through Friday when the season starts. Bonus podcast after every game when they play on the weekends. So subscribe. This show is free. It's Everywhere. It's on YouTube. Get into the comments section there. Share your thoughts with everybody and share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the lockdown Celtics podcast here on the lockdown podcast network. It's your team every day.

[Tom Westerholm]

This is the Chase Sapphire Lounge at Boston. Logan, you got clam chowder in New York. Dirty martini over 1300 airport lounges and one card that gets you in Chase Sapphire Reserve the most rewarding card.

[John Corralis]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member.

[Tom Westerholm]

FDIC, subject to credit approval Our state.

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