Should Celtics GO FOR IT on trade market? | NBA Cup NEEDS FIXING

Summary

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Locked On Celtics – December 4, 2025

Should Celtics GO FOR IT on trade market? | NBA Cup NEEDS FIXING

Episode Overview

Host John Karalis, joined by guest Tom Westerholm, explores whether the Boston Celtics should “go for it” in the trade market as the unofficial start of trade season approaches. They also dissect the flaws and impacts of the NBA Cup schedule—with particular ire for how the condensed calendar is overworking players. The conversation is laced with classic Celtics humor, candid analysis, and the rapport of two insiders closely covering the team.

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Main Theme: The Crossroads—Celtics Approach to Trades & NBA Cup Fallout

• The Celtics are positioned at a pivotal moment with assets and an open Eastern Conference.
• NBA Cup scheduling and its impact on player workload and injuries is under the microscope.
• Trade options—including rumored targets like Ivica Zubac—are weighed against the risk of overextending.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. JAYLEN BROWN NEEDS REST: The Scheduling "Mess"

• Celtics’ Injury Report: Jaylen Brown is doubtful for the upcoming Wizards game (03:28). John argues it’s “the perfect time to get a break.”
• Rationale for Rest: The early season has seen two stretches of 3 games in 4 nights and 5 games in 7 nights—very unusual for this early, given the NBA Cup’s schedule compression.
  • “It’s a wonder why all these guys are getting hurt at the beginning of the season.” – John Karalis (05:30)
• NBA Scheduling Critique: Tom calls it “a mess,” highlighting the contradiction in resting policy vs. schedule density.
  • “NBA is like levying fines…for resting guys…but if you’re the Celtics, I’m gonna rest guys because I’m playing the Wizards the night before.” – Tom Westerholm (06:08–08:29)

Notable Quote

“All of your value comes from your players… and you’re running them into the ground in December. That’s kind of a wild move. I have a hard time believing the NBA Cup is worth that.”
— Tom Westerholm (07:33)

2. THE NBA CUP: A Fix is Needed

• Lack of Fan and Player Engagement: John and Tom both report negligible buzz around the NBA Cup.
  • “Not one person in the comments said anything…that’s how you know nobody cares about this.” – John Karalis (11:01)
• Comparison to Soccer’s Champions League: Tom points out the NBA could learn from spreading cup events across the season, not cramming them into the schedule.
  • “In the Premier League…the Champions League goes the whole season…there’s no reason the NBA cup has to end this early.” – Tom Westerholm (09:02)
• Celtics Insider Views: John admits he’s covered cup games and “totally forgot” to even mention it.
• Conclusion: Both agree: The NBA must spread out these games or risk more injuries and undercutting value for TV partners and fans alike.
  • “This needs to change. Next year. It needs to change. They need to do something about…Fix it. Fix this schedule.” – John Karalis (12:35)

3. TRADE SEASON: Should the Celtics “Go For It”?

• Current Landscape: The East is wide open; Celtics have assets and flexibility.
  • “The east is just wide, wide open. The Cavs lost to the Blazers… The top seed is the Pistons.” – John Karalis (19:43)
• Rumored Targets: Ivica Zubac, and theoretical interest in players like Anfernee Simons, are discussed as fits for a playoff push.
• Trade Mechanics & Constraints: Salary matching under new CBA rules makes deals harder.
  • “Because it gets complicated. Because with the money and the aprons, it’s not as simple.” – John Karalis (24:45)
• The Case for Swinging Big (Zubac Example):
  • “Going in there with a starting lineup of Jalen, Jason, Payton, Derrick White, and Ivica Zubac. Hello…that’s the best team in the East.” – John Karalis (29:02)
  • “If you have the chance to make a run…really be like, ‘dang, we are the best team in the East now’—take that opportunity.” – Tom Westerholm (32:58)

Notable Quote

“If you have a chance to become the best team in your conference, even if it’s short-lived, take it. Like, yeah, give it a shot.”
— Tom Westerholm (32:46)

4. Caution: Don’t Overextend for “Consolation Prizes”

• Avoiding the “Justice Winslow” Trap: Don’t spend all your picks and assets chasing a player who isn’t a difference-maker.
  • “You don’t need to do more than that this season…you do not have to push it…you don’t want to overextend yourself.” – Tom Westerholm & John Karalis (32:58–34:00)
• Be Patient for a Real Opportunity: If Zubac or a clear upgrade isn’t available, don’t panic—wait for the right deal or revisit in the offseason.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 05:30 | “It’s a wonder why all these guys are getting hurt at the beginning of the season. Everybody’s looking for reasons. The schedule is too condensed at the beginning of the season. That’s why.” | John Karalis | | 07:33 | “All of your value comes from your players.…and you’re running them into the ground in December. That’s kind of a wild move.” | Tom Westerholm | | 11:01 | “Not one person in the comments said anything…that’s how you know nobody cares about this.” | John Karalis | | 12:35 | “This needs to change. Next year. It needs to change. …Fix it. Fix this schedule.” | John Karalis | | 19:43 | “The east is just wide, wide open. The Cavs lost to the Blazers…” | John Karalis | | 29:02 | “Going in there with a starting lineup of Jalen, Jason, Payton, Derrick White, and Ivica Zubac. Hello…that’s the best team in the East.” | John Karalis | | 32:46 | “If you have a chance to become the best team in your conference, even if it’s short-lived, take it.” | Tom Westerholm |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• NBA Schedule & Jaylen Brown Rest: 03:28–06:08
• NBA Cup Critique: 06:08–14:38
• Trade Season & Rumors: 17:52–25:22
• Should the Celtics Go For It?: 29:02–34:00
• Don’t Overextend, Be Patient: 32:13–36:04

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Summary Takeaways

• The Celtics are smart to rest players like Jaylen Brown, given the compressed schedule—which they blame on the NBA Cup and poor league planning.
• Neither John nor Tom thinks the NBA Cup has caught on with fans or players; both say the NBA is risking its product and players by overloading the early season.
• The Celtics should pursue a trade for a player like Ivica Zubac if the cost is reasonable, but avoid mortgaging the future for “just another center” or overpaying.
• Patience, discipline, and maintaining flexibility for bigger opportunities either at the trade deadline or in the offseason is the recommended approach.

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Closing Remarks

For Celtics fans wondering whether to push the chips in or stay the course, the message is clear: Yes, seize a real opportunity—but don’t lose sight of the bigger picture. And as for the NBA Cup? Most, including diehard Boston followers, barely notice it’s there.

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“If you can swing a reasonable deal for Zubac, then absolutely, obviously you do that. Don't overextend for him. Don't overextend for like…consolation prize. Don't do that. There's a summer and there's next season and there, there are a lot of things that can break.”
— John Karalis (34:05)

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Transcript

[John Corralis]

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Every day.

[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corralis]

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Jaylen Brown needs a break and it's for a very dumb reason. And what should the Celtics do at the trade deadline? Or at least in trade season? It's all right now on the Lockdown Celtics Podcast.

Huh. Yup yup Bean town be ever ready. It's the seas. Who else could it be? What they gonna say now screaming like J.T. corralis we kept the madness every game, every practice, crime time Depp and D White on the sideline Ren and Jace how we started raising ban is how we finish Locked on Celtics pot Home of the winners. Welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics Podcast right here in the Lockdown Podcast Network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics and I talk about them every day Monday through Friday. Plus I'll give you a bonus podcast when they play. On weekends like this Friday they play the Lakers and I will give you a podcast after that. Every one of these is free. It's available Everywhere. It's on YouTube. So get in there and share your thoughts with me. If you're new to the show, I'm John Corralis, beat Writer for Boston Sports Journal. I have been covering this team in some form for 20 years doing this podcast for 10. I also have a couple of books out about the Celtics as well. Today's show brought to you by Game time. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code locked on NBA for 20 off your first purchase of tickets. Tickets to the NBA game. Tickets to whatever you want on game time later on, we're going to talk about the trade, the approach in trade season, where at the beginning of December, we're about a week and a half away from the soft launch of trade season. And what should the Celtics do? Should this start. Should this should affect what Brad Stevens does in his approach? That's coming up later on. But we got to start with this schedule, and I say we because it's going to be me and Tom Westerholm, everybody.

[Tom Westerholm]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[John Corralis]

How you feeling, Tom?

[Tom Westerholm]

Blessed and grateful. How are you?

[John Corralis]

Wow. Neither of those things.

No, I'm good, man. I'm good. Can't get my.

[Tom Westerholm]

Can't get my.

[John Corralis]

My graphics right here. I think my white T shirt is kind of screwing with me. But anyway.

Jalen Brown is doubtful, which I'm happy about. I've been saying on the show he needs a break. This is a perfect time to get a break. Yes. In fact, sit like, I hope Derrick White comes up with something.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

The injury report for the Celtics Wizards game on Thursday night. Jalen's doubtful for the Wizards. Out. Alex Sar. Corey Kispert. Bilal Kulabali. Sharif Cooper. Trey Johnson. So the Wizards are, like, expertly tanking. They are. They are doing it. They are.

[Tom Westerholm]

They're like, you know, few teams in NBA history have as much experience in tanking as the Wizards do.

[John Corralis]

They are, yeah. They have the art.

[Tom Westerholm]

A veteran of these tanking streets. Yes.

[John Corralis]

Yeah. So they are not gonna let the Celtics say, okay, we're gonna rest Jalen. We're gonna arrest whomever else and, like, start Amari Williams and Ron Harper and Max Shulga and, you know, have the Wizards fall into a win. They've already screwed up by beating the Bucks the other night. They're. They're not going to take any chances here. No, but what makes this so dumb and why Jaylen Brown on December 3rd already needs a break. It's not just that he has this workload that is extreme, but he's working extraordinarily hard to be as good as he is. It's that the Celtics are on another three games in four nights and a five game in seven nights for the second time already this season. Yes. They have played, like, so many games, and you look ahead. So it's three and four. If you want to go down and distill it down even further, you've got Toronto on. On Sunday afternoon. So that even worse. So that's four games in six nights, however you want to move. But then you get like three days off and then another, you know, Milwaukee on Thursday and Giannis just went down with the cap stream.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Right before we recorded this. So Giannis might not even be in that game. So then three days off and then Detroit and then another three days up. What a dumb schedule to be sitting here and needing, you know, a guy like Jalen needing a break because of the NBA Cup. Yeah, the NBA cup schedule is so dumb that here we are with a super, super condensed early part of the schedule where guys are getting worn out and it's a wonder. You wonder why all these guys are getting hurt in the beginning of the season. Everybody's looking for reasons. The schedule is too condensed at the beginning of the season. That's why.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, well, I mean, look, the, the schedule is, is too long in the regular season. You know, I mean, they're like. But yes, it's very condensed here. I mean, you know, like, I, I think it's absurd to, if you're the NBA, to, to give. Okay, Celtics, Lakers, we're giving our new broadcast partners Amazon Prime. We're giving them Celtics, Lakers here in the early season, it's, it's a, you know, like, obviously in the early NBA season, it's not always great, so we're going to give them a good one right off, right off the jump. This is, this is big time. Oh, and by the way, the Celtics are going to be on the. Playing their third game in four nights. Like, and it's the second night of a back to back of a road back to back. Now, I mean, like, Obviously, you know, D.C. to Boston isn't like the craziest trip of all time, but like, it's still a road home back to back. Like, there's still going to be nights not spent in their own bed and there's still a basketball game happening the day before. So, you know, I mean, like, the NBA, you know, is like levying fines against people who, you know, for like resting guys or whatever. It's like, well, if you're the Celtics, it's like, I'm sorry, I'm gonna rest guys because I'm playing the Wizards the night before. I'm playing. Yeah, like a, a Wizards team that, that features just like, like the tank commanders and, and the, the tank sergeants and the, the tank foot soldiers of, of the Washington Wizards. We're playing them. All right, cool. Rusting them that night. It's. I don't know, man. It's, it's, it's a mess. The NBA schedule is, is a mess and Like, I mean, obviously the NBA cup, it's like, well, everybody could have seen this coming. Anybody in the right mind could have seen that this was going to cause massive issues at the start of the season. And like, I would understand if it was like, growing pains in terms of, okay, like, you know, these rules didn't work or, or this, you know, like, this setup didn't work. And we want to shift some things around there. But it's like, you know, if you're the NBA, all of your value comes from your players. All of your value comes from these super talented guys, these irreplaceable. These, you know, the, the, the, these, like, solely. Nobody else is as good as these guys at basketball. And you're running them into the ground in December. That's, that's kind of a wild move. I, I, I have a hard time believing that the NBA cup is worth that.

[John Corralis]

It's not, it's definitely not. I don't know how many people actually care about this thing, but if you want to do it, do it, like, do it in January, spread this out a little bit more so you're not, you're not condensing this season so much. You got to figure out a different way. You can't, you can't have so many, like, two weeks blocked off for you. Just, we can't have that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Why does it need to be done so early? I don't understand.

[John Corralis]

I really don't understand.

[Tom Westerholm]

In the Premier League, right? In soccer, overseas, the, the Champions League, which is like kind of the model that the NBA is like, trying, trying to follow, it's a little different, but they're kind of going for that model where there's, there's the one league going on at the same time as the other league. The Champions League goes on like, that goes deep into May, and it's going on right now. The group play is going on now. It goes the whole season and it goes into May. Now, obviously you can't do that, but, like, I don't know, everybody's still into the Champions League from the start of the season to the end of it. I don't see any reason the NBA cup has to end this early so that you have to mush everything together.

[John Corralis]

My only feeling here is that it's something to get you through the beginning of the season when no one cares. Historically, no one cares. Yeah. And Christmas is supposed to be like the, the real opening day for the NBA. And so you want to get this cup done and then in a week, have Christmas or two weeks Have Christmas and then you. You get going and whatever. I don't. I don't buy it. It's. I know this is only year three. I'm not seeing the traction. I'm not saying I. And. And maybe it's just a Boston thing. I. I don't know anybody that's into this. It hasn't been a buzzword. It hasn't been any conversations when I. When I was at these games. Yeah, I have. I. I said this on a. On a. I forget if it was on the podcast or on a live stream. Whatever. I did, I did a show after one of the cup games. I covered the whole thing for Boston Sports Journal. I wrote two pieces without mentioning the Cup.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Corralis]

I did a podcast. Didn't mention the Cup.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, totally forgot.

[John Corralis]

I totally forgot that I had to mention, like, the cup was a thing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corralis]

Not one person in the comments said anything.

[Tom Westerholm]

Nobody will actually do. That's how, you know, nobody cares about this. Dumb.

[John Corralis]

Right? Right. No one on the Internet said, hey, well, actually, you know, not one, you know, comment or troll was like, oh, look at this guy. You know, so dumb. You can't. You can't even acknowledge the Cup.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right?

[John Corralis]

That's right.

[Tom Westerholm]

Because nobody cares.

[John Corralis]

It.

[Tom Westerholm]

It is. It. It's funny, because the NBA wants this to be a cup that fans care about. Like, you know, there's. So I mentioned. Right. Okay. Soccer. Right. Like, just to draw that parallel, because again, I think that's what the NBA is going for here. There are other cups within the soccer season that people do care about. Right? The people do care about. Like, if you get deep into the season, people really care about some of these cups. But, like, the NBA hasn't got that. What they have is the G League championship or the. The. Sorry, the summer league championship where guys care about it if they get there. Right. Like, if you get to the semifinals of the cup, then, yeah, maybe your team does kind of care and they're like, oh, yeah, maybe I'll try, you know. Like, sure, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. This. Yeah, I do want to win this year.

I can make a little money. Like, yeah, that's great. But, like, up until those, like, quarterfinals, semifinal, finals games, the group play is completely meaningless. And, like, just adds so much, just that friction to the schedule that doesn't need to be there. Friction to guys, joints and ligaments and, you know, other things that are. That already experience a lot of friction during an NBA season.

[John Corralis]

This needs to change. Next year. It needs to change. They need to do something about like, and I. I don't. I don't care that they're trying about. Like, they can. You can try something. Go ahead, try it. Okay, so here. This is my feedback. This is my feedback to the NBA. Fix it. Fix this schedule. This is too much too soon. You come out of the summer, you go into a training camp that doesn't mean a damn thing, and then you just launch into the beginning of the season. That's super condensed. And then there's a bunch of games where no one can skip because you. You get fined if it find.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Corralis]

And so it. It's. It's. You're. You're hitting the ground running, and it. You're just asking too much of guys. All of these. All of these old NBA, you know, people who like to complain, they talk about, oh, well, guys used to play 82 games. Yeah. Guys used to coast at the beginning of the season.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

No one. Like, no one came into camp in shape. No one was doing the. Jalen Brown.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right. Exactly. Exactly.

[John Corralis]

Ready for the. No, everybody was chilling out, and you would work through camp. The training camp was like, a whole month. There were a lot of games you had to try to work through to get yourself into shape in the beginning of the season. Wasn't this. So. I don't know. I'll wrap. I'll wrap this part of it up just by saying the NBA needs to fix it. However, you need to reschedule this. Spread it out. Whatever you need to do, do it. Because this is too much. Guys are getting hurt. And I. I think it's because of the condensed schedule.

And, you know, there's no reason for Jalen Brown to need to rest. But he's been working so hard, and there have been so many games where, like, I. If. If he didn't get, you know, if he wasn't listed as doubtful for the Thursday night game, I would have been on here being like, celtics. What are you, stupid? Yeah, you know, and. And thankfully, they're. They're smart.

[Tom Westerholm]

Actually.

[John Corralis]

We see it, too, you know, so fix it. NBA.

[Tom Westerholm]

The NBA is stupid. Celtics are smart.

[John Corralis]

Stupid. Celtics not stupid. Right. Boy, that's. We're, like, edging up on sports talk radio there for a second. All right, The Celtics are so. They're. They're 12 and 9, and they are looking good.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

December 15th, around the corner, trades. Giannis is talking about, like, his future. All of these things are happening. What should the Celtics do? Should they stick to the plan that we think they're sticking to? Or has the beginning of the season made that made them change. Should they change their approach? That's all coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Robin Hood what if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robinhood Prediction Markets. It's not you against the house, it's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robin Hood Prediction Markets changes the game. It's people moving the action so when momentum shifts, you can move with it. I always knew the game but never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge. Now I can actually take part live. In a market powered by people, you're no longer just a spectator. Play by play, you decide. Trade every play with Robin Hood now available across the U.S. download the Robinhood app now to begin.

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[John Corralis]

Thanks for making Locked on Celtics your first listen every day. Thanks for making it the number one Celtics podcast in the world on the number one sports podcasting network in the world. That's all because of you, the everydayers who are with me every Monday through Friday. Thank you so, so much. Again, if you're new, this show's free. It's available everywhere. Subscribe, get into the YouTube page, get into the comment section. I love seeing the threads developing as people chat with one another. It's a great place to start a Celtics community and go back and just talk to people that you're familiar with. So go do that and discuss all of the topics that we're talking about here on the Lockdown Celtics podcast, including Tom Westerholm the trade situation, which is a question I've gotten a few times now. So I figured a lot of people are talking about this because Giannis has has not requested a trade necessarily, but he and his agent are sitting there discussing his future with the Bucks. Yeah, Sham Sharania doesn't get that scoop if they're just getting together and Being like, hey, I like it here. Oh, I. We like you being here. So great. That's not how this is gonna go.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

So, yeah, Giannis is probably gonna hit the market, although we'll see what this calf strain situation is and how serious if it's more or whatever. But regardless, he's gonna hit the market. You have. I'm watching the Atlanta situation closely because there's. For the first time, I've heard national people start talking about Trey Young the way I talk about Trey Young. Well, they're starting to encroach upon my territory.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. I mean, copyright infringement laws exist. People. I. I like. We've been saying this. You and I have been saying this about Trey Young for quite.

[John Corralis]

You know what? This is quite. Sometime this is like going on Shark Tank, and you go up there and you'd be like, worse without Trey Young. I mean, we're. You're better without Trey Young. Yeah. And then some factories in China are like, oh, that's a good idea. Let's knock that off. And now we're flooded with. Hawks are better without Trey Young.

[Tom Westerholm]

Taste factories in Bristol say, oh, that's a good idea. Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Yeah. Wow. We got to get in on this. So we'll see what that. What that brings. The John Morant situation is an interesting one. Obviously, in Memphis, there are players that are probably going to move. So the Celtics have assets. There's a rumor out there that Evita Zubacz could be. Now, this is the juicy one.

Could the Celtics get in on Zubac? If the. The chatter. The rumor is, hey, they do kind of like Anthony Simons, like, oh, you do. Oh, that's great. And you want first round picks. The Celtics got them. They got them all.

[Tom Westerholm]

They do.

[John Corralis]

They got them all. And I. I bet they actually put protections on theirs, unlike Joe Dumars.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. So.

[John Corralis]

So.

The question becomes, should the Celtics look at their situation, say, hey, 12 and 9. The east is just wide, wide open. The Cavs lost to the Blazers.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Right before we started recording. They're 13.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And. And did anything about last night's game make you go, oh, man, that.

Dog. Come on.

[John Corralis]

No, no, there's nothing. The top seat is the Pistons, which is great. 17 and 4, like the Pistons, and they are in action right there. They're probably gonna beat the Bucks because Giannis is out, but who knows? So that. That's going on. They might be 18 and 4. Hell of a start to this. But it's the Pistons.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corralis]

They're young. We don't know what they're going to be able to, you know, accomplish. The Raptors are probably gonna fade there.

[Tom Westerholm]

I have to think so. Yeah, they're.

[John Corralis]

They're good. They're good, but, like, second seed good. Yeah. I don't know. Miami, they third seed good.

[Tom Westerholm]

There's.

[John Corralis]

There's a lot of by default happening here.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, as you can tell by the fact that they're all separated by, like, one and a half games. Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Right. The. So it's, it's there. It's there.

If, if you kind of. If you want it. But here, here's the question.

Should the Celtics go for it here? Because you can say, yeah, but the west is like, I mean, you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes. Like, the west is the opposite of. We're talking about. Yes.

[John Corralis]

Are you. What's better? This is the heart of the whole discussion. What's better? You cashing in assets to go for it right now? Because if Tatum. If Tatum does come back.

There is a world where he comes back in, like, February, March, takes a month and a half and becomes some version of himself. And now he's playing a version 75 of Jason. Tatum is still better than Jordan Walsh, despite what Jordan Walsh is doing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corralis]

You know, like, you know, you get him, and let's just say, theoretically, you'll get Zubac. Like, whoa, whoa, hey, there's. That could be the, that could be your Eastern Conference. You can get to the NBA Finals with that team.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, listen, I think you got to think about it. I think. I, I mean.

Listen, I, I don't know, man. I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm riding a little high on the Celtic supply at the moment. I, I'm very. I mean, I'm just, I'm so impressed by Jalen, obviously. I mean, you know, it's, it's the, it's both the wrong and the right day to have this conversation, because it's like the day after they were unbelievably good against the Knicks, and you're just like, whoa, this team is awesome. But, like, I don't know, man, they've been really good. They're 12 and 6 since they started owing 3. Like, they're. Yeah, they've been really good. And, like, I think, you know, when you look at, like when you look at the east and you look at like, okay, they could conceivably win the east if you, and if you win the east, if you make it to the Finals, you give yourself a chance. Right? Like, yeah, weird stuff can happen. The Knicks beat the Celtics in the Playoffs last year. They should not have done that. Weird stuff can happen after the finals.

Yeah, like. Yes, exactly. Like, it's weird stuff happens. Like, yeah, things can happen. I, I think you got to think about it because I, I mean, the, the other thing to remember, right, the best team in the east right now is the Detroit Pistons. If you're the Celtics and you get to the. And you get into the playoffs and you've got like a relatively full complement of your guys, you have no fewer than. You know what, like no fewer than four rotation guys who have been in the finals and have won the finals. Oh, you have. You have no fewer than four guys who have been in the finals and won the finals.

[John Corralis]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[Tom Westerholm]

My computer just throws up on me. But yes, you have. Like, you have a genuine chance.

[John Corralis]

You're bad.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah, you have a genuine chance at winning the championship. That's. That's worth, that might be worth pursuing.

[John Corralis]

It's such, it's such a hard, like, answer right now. Like, if you can get Zubot for Simon's, it, like, it wouldn't be a straight up deal. And the, the question would be, are you. How many of your assets are. You're cashing in for Vita Zubac, who this year makes 18.1 million and he's under contract for two more years, basically at 20 million or so.

If. Okay, so if they like Simons, but he makes 27 million. 27 and a half. Yeah, you might. It gets a little complicated because the Clippers are going to say, well, we want more, but Simons is the one that makes the most money by us by a fair amount. Enough that it, it makes these first. Celtics are our first apron team. The Clippers are a first. No. Are they. They're hard capped at the first apron so they can't take back. And They've only got $1.2 million, $1.3 million.

In. In room. So they can't just do Simons for Zubac. They have to match. So they have to add, which means the Celtics would also have to add, which means now we're talking third team. It gets complicated. So it's not a simple go get Zubot. And. And so, yeah, they're gonna say, well, we want Ugo Gonzalez and we want first round picks. And you know, how far do you go in this? Let's. Let's answer that question when we come back because there's. I don't know, there, there's value to yes and value to no, and we'll get to that when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by. Game Time. The World cup is coming to the United States, to North America for the first time since 1994. There are 48 teams for the first time ever. It's going to be a massive event and getting tickets. Yeah, good luck. But that's why the game Time map is clutch, finally giving fans a real advantage when it comes to snagging seats. With Game Time, you can track price drops in real time. You can get alerts when great seats open up and buy tickets. The moment they hit the app, it puts the power back in your hands and it makes going to the World cup realistic instead of impossible. Pull up the app. The layout makes it very, very simple to scroll through matchups and compare seat views, which is important. You want to know what you're going to see. You can pick a game, tap a section, have your tickets locked within minutes and no confusion, no hunting for fine print. The prices that you see are up. Up front are the prices you're going to pay. No surprises at checkout, which is a great feature. Take the guesswork out of buying World cup tickets in every match, concert or event. With Game time. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code locked on NBA. You'll get 20 off your first purchase terms. Apply again, download the app, make an account and use the code locked on NBA. For 20 off. Swipe, tap, ticket, go. Game Time.

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[John Corralis]

Inspires.

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Go check out Lockdown Fantasy Basketball. Make that your second listen. If you've got a fantasy basketball team and you're not listening to Josh Lloyd, you're just not going to win your league. So check him out. He's got all the ads, drops, starts, benches, all of that stuff on the number one sports podcasting network on the planet. Thank you all for making the Lockdown Podcast Network. That so, Tom? I. I think if you can get a reasonable Deal for a Vita Zubot. You do it right. I think that's pretty straightforward. You can do it, but because it gets complicated. Because with the money and the aprons, it's not as simple. Three years ago, four years ago, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If Zubox is available and you can get close enough with the salary matching, they could throw in somebody that doesn't matter and make the salaries match. It would just be basically be Simons and picks and maybe a young player and figure it out, move on. You get Zubot, he's obviously a really good player. And you say, great, that's our center. Nimash K becomes your backup. That's a really good, that's perfect.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corralis]

You know, like going in there with a starting lineup of Jalen, Jason Peyton, Derrick White and Evita Zubac. Hello. Yeah, because now you got Keita off the bench, Jordan Walsh off the bench, Josh Minot off the bench, Sam Houser off the bench. I'm assuming that maybe some combination of, you know, maybe Ugo is gone in this scenario, which would really suck. You got to give up something to get something. But you have.

[Tom Westerholm]

And if you're giving up, if you're giving up an athletic young wing who plays hard, it's like that is the thing that you have a surplus of at the moment. That's like.

[John Corralis]

Right, right. And so it was, I, like, I don't want to give up Ugo. Nobody's untouchable in a deal like this. Correct. Yes. But, okay, so you, you do that and like that starting lineup would be like, oh, wow, you know, wow. Yeah, that's, that's the best team in the East. No doubt about it.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corralis]

Even if, like Tatum comes back, and I'm not putting any expectations on Tatum when he comes back.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right.

[John Corralis]

This is a rehab stint, but he's still gonna be playing basketball. Even if he's playing 20 minutes, it's 20 minutes of 70 of Jason Tatum, 75. Jason Tate, whatever his abilities are with all the rust and all of that stuff. So eventually, who knows what he gets to. But it's still a really nice option to have and you make your run at the same time. Okay, there's, there's the wait and see option because.

Maybe, maybe you sign Simons to a different kind of deal or maybe, maybe he becomes filler in a multi team trade or, and you get a, you know, different options or you just take it into the summer and, and you have a better idea of, okay, we want to keep these guys. We're willing to move these guys and there are other options that you can get into. I think there's value. Like, I'm not saying you say no to Zubot. I'm saying if Zubot isn't available.

You don't just go get another center.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Corralis]

Start, like, you don't start being like, hey, okay, like, if you can get a center. I keep using Santi Aldama as a, as an example. Like, John Morant goes 14, trade. Santi Aldama comes to Boston in some kind of weird thing. Like, that could be a thing. But.

You don't just be like, okay, now's our time to strike. We got to go get a center and start being like, here's Simons, here's all the picks and you do the Zubotz deal for a lesser player. You don't go all in for a player. Now, Zubac is an exception. Yes, but otherwise, if something like that isn't available.

You explore the four team trade thing and getting in there as an ancillary kind of team and, and trying to get somebody that way. Or you just take it into the summer. Like, be careful about how hard you go this season is what I'm saying.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right? Don't get, don't get justice winslowed. Right. Like, don't, don't start making it something where you're just like, more picks, more picks, more picks. Like, you're not, that's not. No, no, no, no, no. Like, yes, I, I agree with that completely. I think you have to consider it. I think you have to like, take up, take a big run at Zubots. Like that, that's, that's a really good player that like you said, I think anytime, especially under, like with all the new, with all the weirdness, with all the fluidity that could happen with the new salary, with the new salary rules, all that kind of stuff. If you have a chance to become the best team in your conference, even if it's short lived, take it. Like, yeah, give it a shot. Like, see what you can accomplish. Because, like, opportunities are going to be fast and fleeting, you know, over the next however many years.

[John Corralis]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Take a swing at it. But I think you're exactly right. Like, if there's one thing that we're seeing with this team, it's like, okay, there's enough talent on this team right now to be competitive this season. You don't need to do more than that this season. You don't, you don't need to. If you have the chance to make a run, if you have the chance to really be like, oh, dang, we are the best team in the east now. Take that opportunity. But like you said, you do not have to push it. So. Yeah, I, I'm, I'm right there with you. I, I think if you can get Zubac, you go get him. But. Yeah, but you don't, yeah, you don't, you don't, you don't get Justice Winslow.

[John Corralis]

Right, right. If a team, if another team comes along and says, hey, you know, we see that you want a center, we got a center, and you just say, okay, well, we, sure, we'll, we'll take, we'll take that center and we'll, we'll give you all of the same picks for the same thing. Like.

Sure, let's go. You don't want to do that. You don't want to do.

You don't want to overextend yourself. So that. I think that's the lesson. Sorry, I'm having a little bit of a. Tom Westerholm ended up falling off the, the broadcast there, so I think that's a good place to wrap it up. The final lesson is Zubac. Yes, absolutely. If you can get Vita Zubot. Yes, do it. I don't know if that's going to be the case because you know what other teams are going to be like, zubots is available. Sure, we can do that. And maybe Anthony Simons isn't exactly what, you know. Yeah, the Clippers had interest in Simons. Maybe they had interest in him when he was in Portland. Maybe they look at this deal, you know, now and be like, hey, we're not as interested anymore. Or you, you, they get another offer from somewhere else. Like, don't, don't. Also, don't, like, give up six first round picks for Zubac either, because the Celtics are kind of at the tail end. Like they've got a couple years left. You don't want to, you don't want to be like one of these teams. You want to, you don't want to be like the Clippers who, you know, you don't control your picks anymore. Like, you don't want to be at the end of your contention and all of a sudden all your picks are gone. You're like, oh, my God, we still owe picks. We still owe swaps for Zubots. Like, you don't want to overextend for that either. You got to be careful about how you do this. So if you can swing a reasonable deal for Zubox, then absolutely, obviously you do that. Don't overextend for him. Don't overextend for like, oh, God. Consolation prize. Don't do that. There's a summer and there's next season and there, there are a lot of things that can break. So there, there are so many moving parts in the NBA right now. There are so many moving parts that you can probably, you can probably get in on somebody somehow.

In another way. All right, Tom, thanks for joining the show. Appreciate you being here.

[Tom Westerholm]

My computer died. My bad.

[John Corralis]

Well, I wrapped it up, so unless.

[Tom Westerholm]

You got other thoughts, I bet you I listen. I agree with nothing you said. I think you got it all wrong. And.

[John Corralis]

Yeah, well, I was saying, I read, I was saying that Tom Wester home was great. So you're right, I'm wrong. You suck, man.

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm rubber, you're glue. Dang it.

[John Corralis]

Bye, Tom. Appreciate you, man. I always appreciate Tom making the effort. Coming back, it's like going out with a cramp and then coming back and like, I'm gonna finish this game. Thank you all for listening, for watching. Let me know in the comments. What, what do you think what the Celtics should do? Obviously a lot of different opinions on this. Celtics play the Wizards. I will be here after the Wizards game. Celtics play the lakers on Friday, 7 o', clock, start at the Garden. I will be there for that. I will be podcasting after that game, so make sure you are subscribed. If you're new to the show, would love to have you subscribe. Get into the comments section on the YouTube page, share your thoughts and then share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast network. It's your team every day.

[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corralis]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corralis]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corralis]

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