Trade Rumors: Boston Celtics 'would love' Jaren Jackson Jr. | Is it even possible?

Summary

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Locked On Celtics Podcast

Episode Date: January 14, 2026
Host: John Karalis
Guest: Tom Westerholm
Topic: Trade Rumors – "Boston Celtics 'would love' Jaren Jackson Jr. | Is it even possible?"

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Episode Overview

In this episode, John Karalis and Tom Westerholm dive deep into the latest Boston Celtics trade rumors, specifically addressing the buzz around Jaren Jackson Jr. and Daniel Gafford. The duo critically examines the financial realities behind these rumors, the team’s recent tendency to focus on officiating, and what realistic options exist for the Celtics as the NBA trade deadline approaches. This episode is an engaging mix of salary cap analysis, skepticism about rumors, and classic Celtics humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Celtics’ Ref Complaints & Culture of Blame

[01:11 – 13:06]

• Joe Mazzulla’s press conference fallout:
  The episode opens with Karalis and Westerholm venting their exhaustion over the Celtics’ recent fixation on questionable officiating decisions following tough losses.
  • Karalis: “I hate, hate, hate… just making it about the refs because… You could have done 10 other things. Joe Mazzulla loves to say, 10 to 15, you could have done a few other things to make this game less… tight.” (04:21)
  • Westerholm: “I’m tired of it. If it wasn’t for the refs, the Celtics would be well on their way to a 73-win season… That’s not going to result in good things.” (05:39, 08:13)
• Leadership Setting the Tone:
  Westerholm pins the trickle-down effect on both Jaylen Brown and Mazzulla, arguing that the team leadership needs to set a culture of resilience rather than deflection.
  • “Jaylen Brown started this… You are still the leader of the team, both of you.” (07:57)
• On the missed call:
  Both acknowledge the missed illegal screen was real, and Karalis insists egregious calls should always be made regardless of the situation.
  • Karalis: “A foul is a foul… an illegal screen is… a difference between letting some contact go and letting an illegal screen like that go.” (11:09)

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2. Trade Rumors & Jaren Jackson Jr.: Fantasy vs. Reality

[13:06 – 24:03]

• The “We’d Love to Have Jaren Jackson Jr.” Meme:
  • The Celtics being rumored to “love” Jaren Jackson Jr. is compared with fans dreaming of buying Aston Martins or guitars—realistic in desire, but not feasible financially.
    • Karalis: “The Celtics would reportedly love to get Jaren Jackson Jr. In a related note, I would love to buy myself an Aston Martin… do people understand where I’m getting at here? Jaren Jackson Jr. is super expensive.” (16:25)
• Financial and Roster Realities:
  • Karalis breaks down Jackson’s escalating contract: $35M this year, ballooning to $52M by 2029.
  • The show emphasizes the cap’s “second apron” and notes Boston is already financially locked in with Tatum and Brown.
    • Karalis: “We’re talking about $160, $170 million with those three players. Did we not just do the whole second apron thing?” (17:44)
• Would Jackson Even Fit?
  • Westerholm: “You are locking your team in…this championship window… is then set. There is not a lot of fiddling you can do around the edges.” (19:05)
  • Both argue that unless you’re trading Jaylen Brown—a move neither supports—Jackson isn’t a realistic addition, and the Celtics will likely focus on adding around their main core.

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3. Daniel Gafford as Plan B: Value Over Splash

[24:03 – 32:47]

• Comparing Gafford to Jackson:
  Karalis describes Gafford as “not Jaren Jackson Jr. production”—but the salary difference is huge and Gafford arguably offers better value under the current CBA.
  • Karalis: “You’re not getting $30 million less production… the value is better for Gafford because you can make a move…” (27:23)
• Would You Trade for Gafford or Keep Simons?
  • Westerholm would prefer Anthony Simons and internal options like Neemias Queta to using assets on Gafford.
    • Westerholm: “I’d rather have the variety, I’d rather have the bucket getting…than bringing in somebody who…I don’t know to what degree better than Keda is he gonna be?” (29:15)
  • Both prefer to use the Celtics’ resources to maintain roster versatility.

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4. Ideal Target Profiles & Aggregation Caution

[32:47 – 37:38]

• Zubac as the Best Fit:
  Karalis identifies Ivica Zubac as the most attractive rumored target due to his contract, on-court fit, and overall value.
  • Karalis: “That’s the type of player—a good two-way player—that would be a decent fit…Zubac kind of is that guy.” (33:58)
  • Westerholm agrees, noting Zubac “really does hit the middle of that needle.”
• Discernment in Rumor Season:
  The hosts emphasize the need to separate real possibility from agent-driven rumor, especially with Boston’s name being used as a catch-all in speculation.
  • Westerholm: “If it doesn’t make too much sense, it probably isn’t gonna happen…trust your intuition.” (36:40)
  • Karalis: “We’re in this age of everything being amplified…amplification without thinking…I think is the problem.” (36:06)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On repeated ref complaints:
  “I don't want this to be like an opening where every time the refs blow a call, the Celtics just lean into the—oh god, we're doing it again…We can't have this be the identity.”
  – John Karalis, [06:45]

• On trade rumor logic:
  “The Celtics would reportedly love to get Jaren Jackson Jr. In a related note, Tom, I would love to buy myself an Aston Martin.”
  – John Karalis, [16:25]

• On the financial blockade:
  “Did we not just do the whole second apron thing? …I don't understand how the Celtics get Jaren Jackson Jr. and pay him all that money and keep the guys they have here together.”
  – John Karalis, [17:44]

• On locker room culture:
  “You guys set the culture here…The ball finds energy…complaining about the refs, that's not going to result in good things.”
  – Tom Westerholm, [07:57, 08:13]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ref Complaints & Team Culture – [01:11 – 13:06]
• Jaren Jackson Jr. Rumor Deep Dive – [13:06 – 24:03]
• Daniel Gafford vs. Internal Bigs – [24:03 – 32:47]
• Best Targets and Rumor Caution – [32:47 – 37:38]

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Summary & Takeaways

• The Celtics’ locker room has developed a concerning habit of blaming officials, which both hosts argue is counterproductive for team culture and success.
• Jaren Jackson Jr. would be a dream fit talent-wise, but the financial realities of the NBA’s new cap structure make such a trade almost impossible unless Boston is willing to break up its superstar duo—an outcome neither Karalis nor Westerholm see as likely or desirable.
• Daniel Gafford offers more plausible value but probably isn’t enough of an upgrade to justify giving up mid-tier contracts or sacrificing depth.
• Ivica Zubac is identified as a more realistic and optimal target due to his fit and contract, but the overall message is clear: Most rumors are “smoke,” and smart fans should use their intuition to sort serious discussions from click-bait.
• The show closes by reminding listeners it’s “silly season,” and not to believe every aggregated headline involving the Celtics.

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Final Word:
“If it doesn’t make too much sense, it probably isn’t gonna happen…Trust your intuition during this season.”
– Tom Westerholm [36:40]

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Transcript

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New year same extra value meals at McDonald's. So now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for just $8 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery. Joe Mazzulla was right, but I'm still not thrilled with the way he went about things and trade rumors. Jaren Jackson Jr. Is it even possible right now on the Lockdown Celtics Podcast? Hey, welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics Podcast right here in the Lockdown Podcast network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics and I talk about them Monday through Friday plus bonus podcasts when they play on the weekends like this weekend in Atlanta. I will be in Atlanta assuming the weather allows me to get there. But I will be there at State Farm Arena. So make sure you get that postgame podcast to bonus podcast. It's all free, available everywhere you get your podcast. If you're new to the show, I am John Corralis, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal, covering the Celtics for about 20 years now doing this podcast for 10 and I've written a couple books about the team. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. Before tip off, check out the FanDuel app and see what's dropping during NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern. Later on, trade rumors. Daniel Gafford, Jaren Jackson Jr. Lots of names being thrown around. Does anybody even pay attention to the numbers? Well, we do. We'll talk to some of the we'll, we'll get into some of the possibilities what's real, what's not, what would actually have to happen to make some of these rumors come true. But first, Joe Missoula. Yeah, he was right. Illegal screen. Illegal screen. Illegal screen. He was correct. And today we're talking about it with Tom Wesserholm. Tom, Illegal screen.

[A]

Illegal screen. Thank you. Thank you. It's. We are both the own. We're. We're both the first ones to make that joke. Nobody before us has made the podcast illegal screen and Illegal Screen over and over. Joke. That's ours, dude.

[B]

It's brand new.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trademark Copyright 2026, John and Tom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Underscore Boys Productions, LLC.

[A]

Yes. Pay us money, please.

[B]

Yes. Okay, now, so illegal screen. That was an illegal screen. It was indeed. We knew it. I said it in last night's podcast. Everybody could tell it was absolutely an illegal screen. Joe Mazzulla was correct, but not a surprise that it was correct. The point, I think still stands that to make the last three losses that the Celtics have had have all been the ref's fault. That's what I. My big takeaway. Jalen went off against the. After the Denver game. Jalen went off again after the San Antonio game. Now Joe went to illegal screen mode after the. The loss. This last loss in Indiana. Okay, now we get it. It's done. I'm not saying don't bring it up because you very easily could have gone into that post game press conference and said, you know, guys really worked hard. That was an illegal screen. At the end. They didn't call it. They should have called it. You know, it was not our best night. We. We fought back. We were short handed and the guys deserved better than what they got. And, you know, maybe we wouldn't have won the game anyway, so who knows how it would have gone? But they still should have called an illegal screen. That would have gotten your point across and, like, we wouldn't be in this. Hey, stop. Will you stop? Just making it all about the officials. And I know fans are listening and being like, no, but the officials suck. Like, okay, yes, maybe they do. You. Even if we say, yeah, oh, they suck, they're horrible, they're the worst. Which I don't believe necessarily, but even if we went there, I'm not like, I hate, hate, hate, Tom. I hate the. Just constant. Just making it about the refs because it's. You could have done 10 other things. Joe Mazzulla loves to say, 10 to 15. You could have done a few other things to. To make this game less, like, less of that tight situation. And it, maybe, Maybe it would have mattered, maybe it wouldn't have, but. Anyway, that's. I, I'm repeating myself, but I. What else can you say?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, well, what else can you say?

[B]

Yeah. Tom.

[A]

Illegal screen. No, listen, I, I think you're exactly right. Thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I, I agree with you on all points. I'm so. I'm tired of it. I, like, oh, like, yeah, if it wasn't for the refs, the Celtics would be. The Celtics would be well on their way to a 73 win season. Like, great. Like, okay, I'm glad we've done this. And now we can yell at the refs and we can all be mad at the refs together and surely that will make a huge difference. I mean, it's, it's like, you're right on two points. Right? First of all, it's funny that Joe Mazool, like the messenger here is funny, right? You're the messenger delivering it very much is the, like you said, 10 to every post game, whether they win or lose. If they win, it's like, you know, I, I mean, you know, we'll go back. I'm sure there were, you know, we can always keep improving. There's 10 to 15 things that we could have done better and we'll look at those in. And if they, if they lose, then it's like, yeah, there's 10 to 15. Like, does not matter. He always passes on the same message.

[B]

Always.

[A]

And so like, you know, to, to put it all on the refs. I mean, it's, it, it's. We talked about this with Jalen the other day. It's just grading and tiring and undignified.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Just.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

I don't wanna.

[B]

I'm sorry, but you know what I.

[A]

Don'T want to happen.

[B]

I, I don't want this to be like an opening where every time the refs blow a call, the Celtics just lean into the. Oh, God. Yo, we're doing it again. Like, because what's going to end up happening is somebody's not going to get back and you know, we're going to have more, more situations of. Well, Jalen got. Thought he got fouled going to the rim and he hung back and was yelling like, Jason Tatum has done that enough or over the past few years now. We don't need to have it happen all the time again. Like, we, we can't have this be the identity. Just can't. And I, I, again, I totally believe they have a point. Yeah, but, but we can't get caught up in that. You have to focus on the other stuff. Got to be mentally tough. Your mental toughness comes from getting past the BS that holds you back sometimes. And sometimes, like, we've all been at work and been like, well, this is terrible and this is crap and I don't want to, I don't want to deal with this, but I will deal with it because I have to and I have to do my job. So that's, that's just do it, deal with it. Deal with it.

[A]

Right? Yeah. I mean, like, be a professional and listen, I think, I think there's two things with this, right? One, this comes from your leadership. Right? This comes from like, like Jaylen Brown started this. Like, you know, like, like he, he started complaining about the refs at the very beginning of the season. He started saying, like, well, I've got my conspiracies. And it's like, okay, well, you, like you say all the time quite correctly that you are the leader of this team. Well, I mean, so is Joe Missoula. Like, what example are you guys setting? Like, what kind of a culture are you guys setting? You guys set the culture here. And obviously it's a little bit different. You know, this is the NBA. These are grown men. These are not children, all that stuff. But at the same time, it's like, you are still the leader of the team, both of you. Like, you're both still very much the leader of the team. And I think there's a lot to be said. You know, I think one of my favorite phrases that gets passed around sometimes is like, the ball finds energy. You know, I love that phrase because, like, you know, it's just, you know, kind of woo, woo. Mystical enough to be like, you know, to kind of be like kind of fun and out there a little bit. But it is really true, like, if you play with a lot of energy, but the ball will find that energy. Good things happen when you play with a lot of energy. I think the same can be said here with this kind of like negative energy of just like complaining about the refs. Complaining about the refs. That's not going to result in good things. Like, that doesn't help, you know, like, especially on, like, especially on a one off like this where it's like, there's one call that you're complaining about. You know, when Jalen's complaining about, okay, I got no free throws. We got like, you know, four free throws for the entire course of the game. Maybe the next game, the NBA looks at it and is like, you know what? All right, let's give the Celtics some more free throws. Right? Like that does that especially happens in the playoffs. Right. You know, you get to game two, a coach complains a lot about the, about the officiating the next game. They happen to get a friendlier whistle. We do see that a fair amount. But when it's like a one off, like Joe was complaining about yesterday, what you want them to. Okay, the next time that there is a moving screen on the final play of the game and you maybe you'll get that call in that one specific instance. You know what I mean? Like, it's. Yeah, I, I just, I don't know, get over it a little bit.

[B]

Yes. Okay, now let's give two minutes to the actual credence of the call being like Joe being correct just for a second here.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Gotta make that call. You gotta make.

[A]

It's a bad missed call.

[B]

You gotta make that call to some extent. I, I don't want to get into, in that situation. You don't make that call because it's the number one thing that bothers me. Are you gonna say that?

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say that. We finally disagree.

[B]

We did it. We did it. We finally disagree. A foul is a foul. A foul is a foul. And okay, you want to let like minor contact go. Sure. If it doesn't affect the, if it doesn't affect the play, it doesn't affect the shot. But that the illegal screen is, it does affect the play because it allow. It changes how that play is defended. So I, I believe in let the players figure it out down the stretch or in the game. Like, I, I don't want every tic Tac file call like there's going to be contact, but that call has to be made in, in the first minute and the last minute because it is, I pulled it up. It's on the, the NBA's officiating video rule book. It literally is a section where they show a play that looked exactly like that. And so I, I just, I don't believe in the. Well, in that situation, you don't call that because that's egregious. And there's, there's a difference between letting some contact go and letting an illegal screen like that go. And I know people are going to be like, hey, John, Al Horford used to do it. And yeah, of course, of course they did it. And it should have been called then, too. Like, I, I'm not gonna say, like, I believe in. That should be called no matter What? Some of these calls need to be called no matter what.

[A]

Well, you. You presented my counter argument already for me. I'm people. I was going to say Al Horford. So, yeah.

[B]

It is one of my. It is one of my tactics for winning arguments. Taking the other person's argument incorporating into my rant and immediately dismissing it. So when the person brings it up, they go, well, I was gonna say that already. And, like, just takes a little bit of this.

[A]

I already dismissed it, though. That's already. That's already in the past. I already mentioned it, so.

[B]

Because that's like you're gonna come at me with the, well, what about Al Horford? Like, I've already talked about Al Horford, and I got away from you. So now what do you got, buddy? Huh? Cow.

[A]

Huh? Well, I still think that the Celtics probably owe the NBA some karma for Al Horford. That is. That's my take.

[B]

Okay, sure, sure.

[A]

But. But realistically, I. I do have one final thing to say, which is illegal screen.

[B]

Trade rumors. Jaron Jackson Jr. Dale Daniel Gafford, and who knows what else. We're going to talk about those and whether they're even possible when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by illegal. No, it's brought to you by FanDuel. It's every Friday on FanDuel from 6 to 7:30. You get the NBA Happy Hour right before games, tip off right before the weekend starts. It's your official pregame, a limited time window. We get special offers inside the FanDuel app. So open it up at 6 to 7:30. And a lot of times it's like you turn on the pregame show, you just. Or you get home from work. All right, this is a good time to open it up. And you get boosts, you get bonuses, they get surprises. Who knows what you get? It's easy to check the weekly special before tip off and make a move before the window closes. So go check it out. Head on over to the FanDuel app every Friday from 6 to 7:30 and see what's dropping during NBA Happy Hour. A little basketball, a little action, a little Friday energy boost. So go do that. And when you sign up at FanDuel, when you log in, it'll ask you to set a limit, set a budget, whatever your disposable income is, whatever you would normally spend on a night out, that's what you should be setting your limit at, nothing more than that. So you can gamble responsibly, have a little bit of fun, but don't Go overboard, set that limit and then enjoy NBA Happy Hour on FanDuel, the official sportsbook partner of the NBA Today Show. Also brought to you by Wayfair. It's a new year, new year, new you, new decorations, new year, living room, new bedroom, whatever you want, it's over there on Wayfair, you one stop shop for getting getting your home back on track. Bedding, mattresses, storage solutions, it's all there on Wayfair. Whatever you need for a full home refresh, it's all in one place. Whether you're updating one of those living rooms or whatever, organizing your space, an office, whatever, check it out. At FanDuel, we are going to be looking at some new outdoor stuff this year, but you can get bedding. You can find anything that matches your style without spending a fortune. Whatever the price point that you are normally at, you can find something certainly within that price range whenever my wife gets that bug and it's going to be coming up very, very soon. Hey, we need to refresh this room. My my texts end up with a ton of Wayfair links so you can find anything you want. Get organized, get refreshed, get back on track. This new year for way less, head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's w a y far.com wayfair every style, every home. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day and the number one Celtics podcast in the world on the number one sports podcast network in the world. Really do appreciate you, the everydayer who's with me every Monday through Friday for being here and making the podcast and the network number one. You guys are great, listening five days a week, maybe more sometimes. So I do appreciate you doing that. All right, let's get into the trade rumors with Tom. If my buttons will work. There we go. Hi, Tom, how are you? Great. My buttons now work. Gotcha. Jon Jaren Jackson Jr. Is in the rumors the Celtics would reportedly love to get Jaren Jackson Jr. In a related note, Tom, you know, I would love to buy myself an Aston Martin. I would love to buy myself an Astro Martin. That'd be great.

[A]

Yeah, I listen, I mean, yeah, hundreds of guitars I would like to buy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Tom would love to buy many guitars.

[A]

Many guitars.

[B]

Do you, can you, can you, can you buy many guitars?

[A]

I gotta look at my pick situation. It might have to be pretty far out there to make sure that I'm not, you know, any good at podcasting anymore.

[B]

I would have to sell a lot of things if I Wanted to buy some good things. Some good things. Things that I want, but I would. If I wanted that Aston Martin, I would have to sell a lot of things that I want. Maybe even, like one of my dogs like that. It would have to be. It would be a very painful situation. Do people understand where I'm getting at here? Jaren Jackson Jr. Is super expensive, and I'm not sure how the Celtics actually get him. He makes $35 million. It's not. It's not even how they get him, Tom, because he makes 35 million this year. You can get there. Yeah, you can get there with Anthony Simons and like a Sam Houser, or you can get. You can put a. A trade together that gets him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

49 million next year, 50 million the year after, 52 million the year after that. With Jayson Tatum and Jalen Brown both under contract, we're talking about 160, $170 million with those three players. Did we not just do the whole second apron thing? Did we not just do this? I don't understand how the Celtics get Jaren Jackson Jr. And pay him all that money and keep the guys that they have here together. Because you cannot have Tatum and Brown and White and Jaren Jack. You cannot do that. So.

[A]

Yeah, and it's tough, too, because, you know, like, the reason that the Celtics are good right now is because so many of their guy, their cheaper guys took a big step up. So, you know, it's like. But, like, that's not. That's not permission to then go add another really expensive guy. That's just an encouraging thing that you now have. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's really hard to. Yeah, it's really hard to make it work. I like, you know, the Jaren Jackson thing is interesting because on the one hand, it really speaks to. Okay, if you go get Jaren Jackson Jr. Somehow, right? Like. Like set aside the apron stuff for just a second. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At that point, you are locking your team in. You know, you know, the rest of the time that you employ Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum or whatever iteration of those two guys, you know, you. You've got around this. This window, this championship window that you are in right now is then set. There is not a lot of other fiddling that you can do around the edges. Like, it's like, nope, this is the. This is the core that you're working with. So it's intriguing from that perspective. Right. But I mean, realistically, the finances are just really prohibitive. And I mean, and like, the picks that would have to be involved would be ones that like, yeah, down the line, you're probably giving up a couple of picks where it's like the future is mortgaged again. You. Again. You.

[B]

You.

[A]

If you go get Jaren Jackson Jr. Setting aside the second apron stuff, you better be right, because that is. That is going to be your big shot at a title. But realistically, it's also, you know, probably a moot point because I don't. I don't. I don't think the money is going to work one way or the other.

[B]

And like, do you want to spend $50 million on your center?

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's tall ticks. I just said this the other day. Grab some guy that you kind of like, out of the G league and turn him into what you need. Like, it's.

[B]

You're really good at this right there. Of the options that are out there. I just, I feel like there are. There are other places that you can go to get some level of what Jaren Jackson. Jackson can give you without paying all of that money. And like, in a different world, five years ago, I think I would have been all in on this trade because it would have been, you give up Simons, you give up. Maybe you give up Hauser and whatever else you. It would have depended on the picks and all of that. But you. Okay, it would have just been taxes. It would have just been a tax thing. And like, I don't care if, If Bill Chisholm wants to pay the tax, that's. That's fine with me. Go ahead and pay the tax. This is an opportunity to go for it. But.

[A]

But also, five years ago, Jaren Jackson Jr. Was a little bit more promising, too. Like.

[B]

Well, yes, but like, if. All right, if this was this scenario, under the system of five years ago, the but and so people, I think, may have, like, some outdated views of how this. This stuff works. I don't see a path to an expensive center, like, even like a Nicola Vucevich. I don't see an. A path towards a big salary. And because. Because of the salaries that are already on board for the Celtics. And unless. Are you trading Jalen Brown somehow? Like, that's. That's the discussion. And I certainly am not advocating for trading Jalen Brown. Like, I'm not saying, oh, well, if you do that, then this is fine. But if the Celtics are serious about trading for Jaren Jackson, which I don't believe they are, by the way, because if it's gotten out to this point, it I don't think that that's. The Celtics don't put this much smoke out there.

[A]

No.

[B]

So. But if you are going to get him eventually, I think that means they have some designs on, hey, we're going to move Jaylen, maybe. Maybe sell high on that. I just don't see that happening. I think the Celtics are more in the. Jaylen. Look at how good Jaylen is. Look at how good Jason has been. We're going to keep these two guys together forever as much as we can, and let's. Let's figure out something around them. And that. That would. That would mean that Jackson is out.

[A]

That's right. I. I think that's exactly right. Yeah. I actually don't have much more to add Jon Jared Jackson Jr. I just think that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I, I think you're right. I think that Jalen is the, like trading or, you know, or, you know, if you're. If you're the Celtics and you decided to sell at the absolute lowest point on Jason Tatum. Right. It's like one of those, like, you're talking about giving, like trading away one of your superstars and like, why. Why would you do that? Like, you have superstars that, you know.

[B]

That's right. Just for. For a guy that is not a superstar, he's just not a super player of the year possible and all that.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yes, but he's not a superstar. It's. His contract is outsized for what the current situation is.

[A]

And you can't even make a fit and you can't even make a fit argument because, like, this Celtic, like this Celtics core won a championship. So, like, you know.

[B]

Right. All right, so let's get into Daniel Gafford. We'll do that when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by zocdoc. You want to find yourself a doctor. It's very, very difficult finding yourself someone who is in network, who will, you know, who's nearby, who has an appointment and who also listens. Makes you feel comfortable. All that stuff. You. You got to do a lot of shopping, unless you use ZocDoc, in which case they do the shopping for you and they can help you find somebody in network high quality, who is free and available and has reviews. You can read reviews from people that have actually used these doctors. You can search for a specialty, you can search for symptoms and quickly find the right fit. You can choose in person or video visits and those verified patient reviews. You get a sense of who the doctor is, what the vibe is, the communication style so you get what you're looking for. They have real time availability, which means appointments can happen within 24 to 72 hours. Sometimes you get same day openings. And it's all there in a very simple, easy to use app that is free. The website is free. You just go and find the doctor and book the doctor. So stop putting off the appointments. Go to zocdoc.com lockedonnba to find and instantly booked a book a doctor you love today. That's Z O c d o c.com lockdown mba zocdoc.com lockdown mba thanks to Zocdoc for sponsoring this message.

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[B]

Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. You're in every day or you're here with me every Monday through Friday. Do you want to level up? Do you want to join the everyday or club? Do [e-mail] locked on celtics.supercast.com you get ad free audio. You get access to the Discord server. You get merchandise drops. It's all for five bucks a month or if you want to pay up front, 50 bucks for the year. You get two months free. Check it out. The everyday club lockdown celtics.supercast.com so Tom, you know, Gafford is another guy that's rumored. I'm not thrilled with the idea, but he's making 14 and change this year. 17 million next year 18, almost 19 the year after. So you're, you're, you're getting, you're not, I'm not going to sit there and say you're getting Jaren Jackson Jr. Production out of Daniel Gafford, but the 30 million dollar difference in their salaries, you're not getting $30 million less. Right. Production, you know what I mean? So the value, I think if you're gonna pick between those two, the value is better for Gafford because you can, you can make a move. You can include Simons if you know that's, that's how you're going to get there. It doesn't cost you as much. You can save a little bit of money so you know, the, the boss can feel a little bit better and then maybe you're more likely to pay taxes down the road, blah blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. I still am not like salivating over trading for Daniel Gafford, but I would rather have him than Jaren Jackson Jr. Considering all the financials.

[A]

Well, I mean, rather have him. You'd like, you know, in a vacuum you'd probably rather have Jaren Jackson Jr. Right.

[B]

Well, if money wasn't an option and we're just like lining up shirts and skins and picking teams. No, I do not want Daniel Gafford over Jaren Jackson Jr. But under the, the second apron era where money matters and all of that stuff, like yeah.

[A]

And then it comes down to like okay, would you rather have Anthony Simons or Daniel Gafford? Right, like that and that, I think that's the big question here, especially given what we know about this, the bigs, the bigs who are on this roster. Like I, like I'm not saying that I think that the bigs on this roster are, you know, championship caliber bigs. Like neither of us has said that at any stage this year. Right. Like Mimi Keda maybe like coming off the bench for sure. Like that that's a championship big man. But like that, that's not really the case here. I, I just, I think I would rather have Anthony Simons. I, I mean that's going to come as no surprise to any locked on Celtics listener who has listened to me at all this season. I've been very on the record as very pro and Freddy Simons. But I mean, I, I guess, I, I guess because it's not just Anthony Simons in a vacuum, right? It's would I rather have Anthony Simons, Nemikeda and Luca Garza or would I rather have Daniel Gafford? And it's like, I mean, whatever else because obviously you're probably not trading those guys. I, I just, I'd rather have the variety, I'd rather have the bucket getting. I'd rather have the different kind of skill set than like, than bringing in somebody who I, I don't know to what, like what degree better than Keda is he gonna be some. But like not, I don't know, not, not enough to really move me, I guess.

[B]

I, yeah, it's the same question of like if I'm going to do the Jaren Jackson to Daniel Gafford for, you know, 40, $50 million down to 18, we can do 18 down to Namishkada who makes 2.3 and has a team option next year for 2.6.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then even after that, what's, what's he going to get as an unrestricted free agent? What's he going to really get in that market? Is he worth more than five or six? No, I don't think he's in this economy in this NBA. Like no, I don't think he's going to get more than he might get like taxpayer mid level like that I think would be a fair taxpayer mid level for, for Nimi Esqueda is on the money, which in, you know, next year. Absolutely. Give him the take the team option and take the team option on Nene just in case you'd be like, hey, this is great but let's see what he looks like next year with like let's make sure this wasn't just a one and done kind of like crazy year. Like you want to protect yourself and that's, that's how it goes. And two and a half million dollars is still a lot of money. So I do agree with you that if you said to me you have to trade for one of these guys, I would go for Gafford.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because of the money. You go with Jaren Jackson because of the talent, but the money doesn't work. So you go with Daniel Gaffer because of the money. But if you said would you rather trade for him with that package or not, I agree with you that trading going with the knot. I would rather Find somebody that you can trade for on, you know, a, A, even if he's at the Nemes K level, you know, and, and you go with a different, a different player. I don't even know who it would be, but someone in that 4, 5, 6 million that. You got exceptions, you can use that to acquire somebody. You got trade exceptions, you've got ways to, to bring somebody in. Use those. Keep. If you can do the thing that we've talked about a few times, keep Anthony Simons at the mid, at a mid level contract, then that would be, I think, a much better situation. So it, your rebounding will be much better. You know, Keita can go out there and rebound. You get another center who can rebound. Jalen, Jason Tatum will be back. He can. He's your best rebounder.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So the rebounding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gets shored up very easily.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So now the Zubotz thing, I think is the rumor that I would pay the most attention to. I think that's the, that's the type of player that, you know, a good two way player, a guy who ticks like a lot of those boxes and that would be a decent fit. Okay, that, that move I would make, but I would, I, I think I'm, I might be out on a lot of these other rumors that frankly are, I think people are just lumping the Celtics, like Celtics need a center and they just throw them into these rumors without paying that close attention to what's actually happening right now.

[A]

Yeah, no, I, I agree on all counts because I, I think Zubac, like, because he not only does he tick enough boxes, he, he threads a very small needle right where it's like you have to be the right contracts, the right level of talent and the right kind of fit with all the guys who are going to be back next year to be worth all this. And you know it honestly, like, yeah, Zubac kind of is that guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At his best. He, like, he really does. Yeah, he really does. He just hits. He hits the middle of that needle in a way that is very difficult to do and in a way that Jaren Jackson Jr. And Daniel Gaffer just don't to me like. So, yeah, I think it really is kind of that simple. It's like there is, there is one guy who you could make a trade for who would meaningfully improve this year's team and potentially meaningfully improve next year's team within your cap capabilities.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you can go get that guy. Sure. Absolutely. Go do that. But these other guys just feel like Kind of stop gaps in a way that wouldn't even necessarily help you that much.

[B]

Yeah, I think. I think this is, like. I don't know who's. Like, a couple years ago where the Celtics were just thrown into every trade room. Like, a few years ago when the Celtics had so many draft picks that they're like, there's no way they could possibly make all of these picks. So we're going to throw the Celtics in every rumor because they can make a trade. And it was always Jalen Brown, plus the draft picks, four. And it was like, okay, here's the Jimmy Butler rumor. Here's the James Harden rumor. Here's the. And. And, like, this is a. Kai Leonard was another one. Yeah, right. Kawhi Leonard.

[A]

This is.

[B]

This is where, like, Jalen, like, keeps hearing his name and trade rumors. You're like, buddy, you're not actively being shopped.

[A]

Right?

[B]

This was. This is just like the. The people who are. People who are going out there and breaking these kinds of stories. Like, there are. There's, like, a couple of people who break these stories. And then right around this time of year, you're like, Scott Os and Fishers and those guys who you don't hear from a ton still do great work and all that stuff. But then all of a sudden, you hear a ton because all of their stuff gets shared. And they will be like, yeah, this center's on the market. The Celtics are in the market for a center. You know, they could be involved. And like, then the aggregators latch on and be like, whoa, the Celtics could be involved in this. Like, somebody says that. That they heard that the Celtics would love to trade for this guy, which.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I'm sure that they did say that. I'm sure somebody said like. Like, Brad Stevens sat there just like I said, like, oh, man, I would love to get Jared Jackson Jr. On my team. That would be so great. And it would be. But, like, there's a big, like, however in there that doesn't get reported. It's just a little thing that gets thrown into these stories. Totally understandable, totally justified that it gets mentioned. But we're in this age of everything being amplified. It's the amplification without thinking that I think is the problem.

[A]

So I think if you're a discerning Celtics person, right? Whether you're a fan or whatever, you might be, like, if you're somebody who. I mean, frankly, if you're somebody who's listening to the Locked On Celtics podcast at minute 34. If you're somebody who's you know, reading all the stories, who's like, you know, looking at the stats, that kind of thing you can kind of parse out who's like, what guys are pretty legitimate. What guys might actually be targets. If it doesn't, if, if you hear one and you're like, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Trust your intuition during this season because, like, if it doesn't make too much sense, like, it probably isn't gonna happen. Especially, especially if you're hearing it, you know, especially if there's a lot of smoke or if there's like a little bit of smoke, you know, like, I don't know. Just trust your intuition. Something that doesn't sound right probably isn't. And honestly, stuff that does sound right also probably isn't because most things that get reported these days, like around this time just don't end up actually happening.

[B]

Yeah. Good place to end it to trust your intuition. Tom. Illegal screen.

[A]

Illegal screen, man. All right.

[B]

And illegal screen to you for being here with us on a daily basis. I really do appreciate having you all here with me Monday through Friday with me and Tom here on a few days a week. So thank you so much. Yeah, well, you know, it's, it's silly season. It's rumor season. So we'll be here to give credence to the ones that make sense and shoot down the ones that don't and obviously cover every game all along the way. So make sure you're subscribed. River, get your podcast watch show on YouTube and I would love it if you shared the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the lockdown Celtics podcast here on the lockdown podcast network. It's your team every day.

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