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Locked On Celtics - Daily Podcast On The Boston Celtics
Was Jaylen Brown Actually BENCHED? | Joe Mazzulla’s LINEUP Roulette
00:37:42
Was Jaylen Brown truly benched, like he said, or does he need to believe he was? Is Joe Mazzulla’s unpredictable rotation the key to unlocking Boston’s next winning streak, or a sign of deeper uncertainty? John Karalis of Boston Sports Journal and Tom Westerholm break down Brown’s wild night against the Brooklyn Nets, weighing his monster 29-4-4 stat line against his eight costly turnovers. The conversation zeroes in on Mazzulla’s lineup roulette—from Sam Hauser’s gritty fourth-quarter heroics to the emergence of unlikely on-court combinations. Key topics include Brown’s rising usage rate, the fatigue factor shaping his approach, and the battle for the fifth starter spot between Hauser, Josh Minott, and Jordan Walsh. Can the Celtics’ supporting cast step up amid relentless roster experimentation? Get the inside scoop on Boston’s search for consistency—and what it means for their Eastern Conference ambitions.
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A
It's the Locked on podcast network. Your team every day. Oh hey. Welcome to gift wrapping.
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A
Did Jaylen Brown really get benched against the Brooklyn Nets? Did he have a good game or a Bad game. I'm still trying to figure that out. Plus, where will Joe Bazzula's lineup roulette settle? It's all right now on the Locked on Celtics podcast.
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Huh?
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Yep. Be town be ever ready Overseas. Who else could it be? What they gonna say now screaming like J.T. corralis recap the madness every game, every practice, prime time. Depp and D. White on the sideline. Ren and J's how we started raising ban that's how we finish. Locked on Celtics pot home of the winners.
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A
Welcome back to the lockdown Celtics podcast right here on the Lockdown podcast network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics. I talk about them Monday through Friday right here on the number one sports podcast network on the planet. It's the number one Celtics podcast on the planet. So thank you everydayers for making it that this show is free. It's available Everywhere. It's on YouTube. Get into the comments section. Share your thoughts with me. I'm John Corrales. If you're new to the show, I'm a beat writer covering the Celtics for Boston Sports Journal. Been doing this job for about 20 years. 10 years on this podcast. Plus I've got two books on the Celtics under my belt. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. New customers, you bet five bucks. If your bet wins, you get 300 in bonus bets to use across the app. Head over to FanDuel.com to get started. We're going to spend half of this show talking about Joe Missoula's lineups. The Celtics broke this game open against Brooklyn a couple nights ago with a lineup that never, has never played one second of basketball together. And I don't even know if they've played together in practice. That's how weird the lineup was. We'll talk about that in a little bit. We're going to start with Jaylen Brown because I still can't figure out if he had a good game or a bad game against Brooklyn. And then after the game, he talked about how he was kind of. It made it sound like he was benched and I don't know if he really was. So that's why I got Tom Westerholm over here to help me figure this out. Tom Westerholm, everybody.
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F
It's you got to bring on the experts for the big topics. And I'm here to really tell you definitively whether or not Jaylen Brown was benched.
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A
All right, so was he?
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F
I have no idea. I don't know. Maybe I Didn't think so. I, I, Nah, I don't think so.
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A
Maybe.
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F
Okay, all right, we'll settle on maybe. That's a good one.
- [04:39]
A
A definitive maybe. No. So. Okay.
- [04:41]
F
All right, thanks for having me, man. I'll catch you next.
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A
Everybody, everybody. Tom, what's your home.
- [04:46]
F
Thank you.
- [04:48]
A
All right, so he comes out. All right, let's, let's. Before we get to that, did he have a good game, a bad game? What was that from Jalen?
- [05:01]
F
You know, it's, it's funny because I think. And this is going to be another.
- [05:04]
A
Massive definitive, also a very definitive. I don't know.
- [05:10]
F
Right, right. No, I, this is gonna be, this is gonna be a bit of a cop out, I think, but to me, it's almost like Jalen has kind of like there's going to be games where he's really good. There's going to be probably some games where he's not so good, but I almost think to some extent he's evolved past the point of good, bad games with this team because he's just so integral to everything that they do, you know, like this season, he's just so important to every single thing that it's like, okay, if you don't, you know, have 11 points on 32 shots, and if you don't have 50 points on 21 shots, then your game was just a Jalen Brown game. And it's like, you know, it's somewhere in that range and you're really important to your team and you're really good and hey, you're, you know, you're like. We just, last time we were talking, we were talking about how everything's so results based these days. Right? It's like, I don't know, the team won and Jalen was important to that win. Like.
- [06:03]
A
Yeah.
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F
Scored the most points, you know, like, put up, put up, put up some stats. Was played a ton in the second half and, you know, did some stuff. So, like, you know. Yeah.
- [06:13]
A
Pretty good.
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F
I don't know.
- [06:16]
A
Right. He was, he was good. He was good, but also he was bad.
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F
Yeah, he was pretty bad sometimes.
- [06:21]
A
He was pretty bad sometimes. And, but also. He was good sometimes, but pretty good. And, and so. Yeah, so that's. Was he good or bad? The answer is yes. And he and I. The way I put it in that, you know, after the game was when 29, 4 and 4 is like, you know, then that, then you're good, then you're a really good basketball player. Because if you're putting up 29, 4 and 4 and we can't figure out if you had a good game or not, then you're a pretty damn good basketball player, because that's a good game. Just in raw numbers, before the analytics age. Yeah, I. You know, 30 years ago, when I was in my 20s, if I dared at a bar to say that, 29, 4 and 4, and I was like, I don't know if he had a good game or not. It would have been like, get out. Just. You're banned from this sports bar. Get on out. Or you're cut off because you're clearly drunk. But the eight turnovers were the eight turnovers. He looked tired. He looked like his head wasn't there for a lot of the game. And he admitted it after the game like, I played like crap. And, you know, he had to, like, tell himself to. To kind of, like, wake up. Which brings me back to Saturday, where the Celtics had practice. And I shared this on YouTube only. But because it was such an interesting quote, I want to play it here because I asked Jalen directly about the pace. So the setup of this question was about the pace in, like, you're. You wanted to play fast. Jalen, you know, you heard him, he been saying for the past two years, like, oh, we need to play faster. We need to play faster. He wants to play fast. And now here we are, He's. He's the guy. And it's like, oh, you're still last in pace, and you're still isoling a whole lot. So my question was, were you surprised by. Have you been surprised by anything so far this season? And here's what he had to say.
- [08:27]
H
Scoring is a lot. It's a lot more effort than it was in the previous. You know, obviously we had a lot of options, but I just got to exert a lot more energy, play to play offensively. You know, trying to find ways to get easier baskets. Like, baskets are getting closer to the rim, or I don't have to dribble the ball as much, but I. As of right now, game 13, game 14 has been. Every basket is, yeah, it's energy, and I'm up for it, but it's just. It's more energy than.
- [08:58]
A
I love that I'm up for it. Like, the way he said the inflection is like, look, I'm up for it, but it's a lot. He said, it's everything is a lot of work. It's a lot more work than he thought. And then just to button that up, I asked him afterwards, like, so does that mean, like, you know, Sometimes you. You know, you have an opportunity to run, but you're walking the ball up the floor because you know you're going to have to expend a lot of energy when you get to the other end of the 40s. Like, low key. Low key. Like. Yes. So, like, Jalen had to work extraordinarily hard in that Brooklyn game to get his buckets, and he got a lot of buckets. So ultimately, like, they don't win this game without him in the second half. Right. He was critical to them winning this game. So that alone tells you it was more good than bad, even though the eight turnovers were really not good turnovers. But I think what we're seeing, what we saw in that game is this whole season already has been a lot more work than he expected. And Brooklyn was unique. They threw a lot of big, athletic bodies at him, but often on the same play. Yeah.
- [10:14]
F
There were a lot of guys coming to Jalen Brown all at the same time.
- [10:17]
A
Yes. And so I wonder. I'm just like. I'll just throw it out there that he's. He's not playing as fast as he maybe had wanted to in the past, because he knows that when you get down to the other end, it's like, all right, here we go. I'm gonna just conserve my energy here, because when I get there, it's gonna be me against three, four guys, and I kind of have to do it that way sometimes. And that's going to lead to some of these games where, you know, the turnovers aren't going to be great or he's going to be a little too tired or his head's not going to be entirely there because it's just, like, so much work and effort.
- [10:55]
F
Yeah. And I think you saw that a lot yesterday, like you were saying. Right. Like, there's like. I think I could. I think there were at least two, maybe three baskets where he. He gets by. A guy is, like, running as hard as he can into the lane, jumps, has to make contact with somebody else before he can even get the ball up there to put it in. And it's like that when he talks about, like, expending energy, like, when he talks about, like, you know, okay, this is like. Like, like, I'm up for it, but it cost to all of that, right? There is a physical cost, and it's like, it very much is like a, you know, a sports car or just a car in general. Right. You, like, you have a. You have a certain amount of gas in your tank, and you Know, you're. You're. You're driving up a hill and, like, you gotta push on the gas a little bit harder, and that uses a little bit more gas. And, you know, throughout these NBA games, like, Jalen has to, like, think about, okay, when am I going to stomp on the gas and what am I gonna. Like, yeah, when am I gonna take off, crash into this guy and still muscle the ball up? And it, like, that's. That. That takes an extraordinary amount of effort, and he's done a really good job of it so far. Like, really impressive stuff. But, I mean, yeah, of course, it's. It's so much harder this season. It was.
- [12:14]
A
It was.
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F
You know, it was always going to be harder this season, even, you know, even. Even before Tatum went down. Right. Like, when they knew that there were going to be guys who were going to have to not be on the roster anymore. Like, this was going to be a hard season for Jaylen Brown. But, yeah, no, I mean, it.
- [12:29]
A
It.
- [12:30]
F
The quote makes a lot of sense. It's very interesting to see him and hear him realize it in real time. Of, like, it is game 14, and I am. I'm kind of tired, man. Like, this is a lot.
- [12:43]
A
Yo, that game that the. He was just throwing himself into bodies. Yeah, throwing himself. I've never. Honestly, I've never seen him just do that and kind of have that be the plan. Like, I saw him do it in his first couple of seasons when he had no plan and he would drive and just be like, I'm just going to drive into people and try to dunk every everything and dunk over everybody. I think that game against Brooklyn was, look, I'm going to go. I'm going to challenge these guys, but I don't think he had the burst like he could have. And maybe last season he would have dunked on a couple of these guys, but he didn't dunk on anybody. He didn't put anybody in a poster. He was just let me just go, boom, throw it up there. Get those guys to kind of put their hands down and force the refs to make a call.
- [13:34]
F
Yep.
- [13:35]
A
If anything, the most impressive stat that is that he did that got super, super tired and was 8 of 10 from the free throw line, like, he shot 80%. Like Jalen shooting 80% at all is historically, like, pretty good. That he did that as tired as he looked was impressive. So. Okay, so we figured out that it's probably mostly more good game than bad, but we never answered.
- [13:58]
F
Did we get really quick? I know we're running long, but it's very interesting that Jalen can have an eight turnover game this year and still have it. Be a good game because any eight turnover game from Jaylen Brown in previous seasons, horrible trash. F minus. Throw it in the trash. That's not, that's not what this was.
- [14:13]
A
That's a good point. That is a good point. Great point. Because yes, he's had eight turnover games before or close to that and it's just looked awful. Yeah, he's been off. This is for him to be like 29, 4 and 4 and have us be like, nah. Okay, okay. Upon further review, it's better than maybe we thought before. Yeah. So, yeah, important, but okay. So did he get benched in the first half? Well, we'll answer that question definitively for sure. Definitively.
- [14:39]
F
Definitely.
- [14:40]
A
Yes, definitely. Maybe when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by Quo business owners. You know the worst thing that can happen to you is a missed call. When somebody tries to reach you and can't get through that is money slipping away. Quo spelled Q U O Q U O is a smarter way to run your business communication so you never miss an opportunity. Quo is the number one business phone system built for 2025, not 1995. It's simple, modern and designed to help you communicate faster, look more professional and stay connected when you're working. Quo works right from an app on your phone or your computer. No extra devices, no clunky landlines. I feel like this whole thing is a shot at me in my childhood. The built in AI is a game changer. It logs your calls, it writes summaries and even sets up follow ups automatically. And if you can't answer, Crow's AI agent jumps in it. Qualify. It can qualify leads, root calls. Make sure no customer is ever left hanging, even after hours. Try Quo for free at quo.quo.com locked on NBA quo.com lockdown MBA and you can even keep your existing number quo. No missed calls, no missed customers. Today's show is also brought to you by Rougiette. Let's stop making excuses. You know the ones like it's just stress. I'm tired. It happens to everyone sometimes when it comes to performance. Sometimes your body just needs a little extra support. That's where Rougette comes in. It's fast acting. Dr. Prescribed treatments for ED designed to help you stop making excuses and start making moves. Go to rougette.com it's easy to get started. You get connected with a board certified doctor, 100% online no awkward waiting rooms. No in person appointments. If prescribed, your treatment ships discreetly straight to your door. Process is fast, simple and private. And it's all handled by real doctors. Visit rug.com r u g I e t.com lockdown MBA you'll get 15% off your first order. Rouge yet. R u g I e t.com Lockdown MBA make sure you use that code lockdown MBA so they know we sent you rug yet. Stop making excuses, Start making moves. Thank you for making Locked on Celtics your first listen every day in making the Locked on podcast network the number one sports podcasting network around everywhere. Now continue that by going to Lockdown NBA game night. I'm going to be hosting game night tonight, moving over a day, so we're recording this before the game start. I will be there with Tony east of Locked On Pacers to cover the entire night in the NBA. So go check that out. Whenever you're done with this podcast, go check out Locked on NBA Game night. It's on the same feed as Locked on NBA wherever you found this podcast. All right, Tom, let's go down through Jalen Brown because after the game he was asked about playing only 10 minutes in the first half. And he was like, yeah, that's just Joe holding me accountable. I'm like, okay, did he. Okay, okay. So Jalen comes out 5:33 to go in in the first quarter, which is about right, you know, six minute mark, five minute mark. You know, that's, that's Brooklyn's up 21:11. Celtics go on an 18:8 run to close the first quarter. So it's 29, 29. So Joe kind of rides with it. Jalen comes back with at 8:36 in the second quarter. So he lets that, that unit ride a little bit longer and they get to, I don't know if it's the first TV timeout or whatever, but he lets it ride a little bit longer. Jalen comes in, the run extends to 26, 13. It's 46, 44 Boston when he comes out. Now, I don't know if Joe said maybe he's tired. I don't think, I don't think Joe said I'm benching him for any extended amount of time because he played half of the first quarter and he played in the second quarter. It's not like he, not, it's not like he didn't play in the second quarter. He came in, the stint was shorter, but he played. And it's not like they sucked. They were, they were up three when he Came back. They were up two when he, when he came out. It's not like they were, they were horrible. Yeah, Jalen wasn't great turnover wise, but this does not seem like a benching to me. This just seems like we rolled with something, a different lineup that was working. We're just gonna let Jalen get a little extra rest and he played, like, most of the second half, so none of this sounds like a benching to me.
- [19:27]
F
I agree. I think if you told me, okay, like, Jalen Brown is going to play. What did we figure out? It was 10 minutes in the first half. Is that what we figured out?
- [19:38]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:38]
F
Ten minutes. If you told me Jalen Brown was gonna play 10 minutes in the first half, I would say, okay, I, then, then I assume he played a lot the second half. And the answer is, yes, he did. He played the entire third quarter, and he played 933 of this, of the fourth quarter. So that just sounds natural, right? Like, I, like, I would just be like, there's not anything that's too jarring to me about him not playing much in the first half. You and I have had this conversation. I don't remember if it was on the podcast or off, but about how, like, yeah, guys are. Coaches are trying this out some this year, right? Like, trying different ways to keep a guy's minutes within, you know, in check, but, like, make sure that he's out there as much as you can in the second half. Like, try that out. Like, that sounds a lot more to me, like, what happened here was that, you know, yeah, Jalen didn't super have it in the first half. That doesn't mean he's getting benched. That just means that a lineup played pretty well. And like, again, Joe will 100% let a lineup that is rolling, keep rolling. Like, there's no reason to break that up. They, they just went on an 18 to 8 run and got you back in the game, right? Like, that's, you just let that lineup keep cooking a little bit.
- [20:48]
A
Yeah.
- [20:49]
F
And I think, you know, sometimes I, I, I think Jalen, you know, he's, he's like a, Jalen's kind of like a big thinker, right? Like, he has, like, he, he, he, he. I think he takes, like, a very overarching view of things sometimes. And I think if you look at that game and you're Jalen Brown, you could think like, yeah, man, I was really bad in that first half, but. And you know, Joe's holding me accountable because I'm a leader and I think it might just be a lot more simple than that. I think it might just be a lot more just like, nah, Joe is just, like, doing some lineup stuff, and that's how this broke down. It's like, a lot more granular than Jalen Brown likes to be. I think Jalen likes to like to think about things on a much grander scale, which is very much to his credit, but also just didn't necessarily, to my mind, represent what happened in yesterday's, like, Tuesday night game between the Brooklyn Nets and Boston Celtics in November.
- [21:39]
A
It screams, like, not saying that, you know, Jalen is Michael Jordan, but it's the. And I took that personally kind of moment of like, well, Joe, he needs it to be. Joe was holding me accountable in his own head.
- [22:01]
F
Yes. And I am accountable because I am a leader. And Joe was right. And I'm gonna be better because I'm better. I'm better. Let's go. And it's like, no, that's it.
- [22:08]
A
That's it right there. That's exactly it. That's. That's what Jalen needs it to be. Whatever it actually was. No, it's. And look, there are plenty of times when Jalen says stuff at the podium and you're like, oh, okay, that sounds good. And then it. Well, I think I just have audio. Little video glitch there. Sorry. But anyway, it's not.
- [22:37]
F
It's.
- [22:37]
A
It's not that. It's not what Jalen said it was gonna be. And so, yeah, but Joe, this brings us to the lineups, because Joe, he's got no choice but to try different lineups. And you. You know that Jalen's going to be working, like we said before, extraordinarily hard to. To. To score into, you know, maybe too hard in some. Some instances. Right. If other guys aren't. Don't have it, or if Jalen feels like the knee, like, okay, today I've got to. I've got to do more today, whatever. Then you. You have to kind of almost protect him from himself, because if you. If you let him play 36 minutes, then Jalen, who's already dealing with the hamstring stuff, are you going to let him play 36, 38 minutes with that workload, with that much effort, with that much usage? He's at. He's near the top of the NBA. I haven't even checked today, but he. He's at the top of the NBA in usage rate. Like, he's.
- [23:48]
F
You.
- [23:48]
A
You have to kind of protect him a little bit. And so you go to different lineups, you go to a little more Anthony Simons, you go to a little bit something different. And that brings me to the lineup that broke the game open against Brooklyn. Yeah.
- [24:03]
F
Real quick. Yes. 100 percentile in usage. 35.
- [24:07]
A
Yeah. Right. Top of the league.
- [24:11]
F
Yep.
- [24:12]
A
So, yeah, we'll get to, we'll get to the evolving lineups here. And the one that broke the game open, that never played a second of basketball together and it was none of the new guys. That's all coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by skims. When I found out that skims was making underwear for men, I had a pretty nice reaction because my wife has been telling me about skims all along. She's been a skims consumer for a while and she said, you're gonna love it. And I said, okay, it makes sense to me. And she's right. You know, a lot of us will go to like freaking big box store and buy our underwear in bulk with like 10 pounds of chicken and three tubs of peanut butter. That's not where you should be buying your underwear. We're adults. We're grown men. You can go to skims and get yourself real underwear. That feels good if it's right. No slipping, no sagging, no adjusting. I like the stretch 5 inch boxer brief. It's just made the right way. It feels soft, supportive, and comfortable. They don't ride up. They don't lose their shape. They stay exactly where they're supposed to stay. Which is important because I wear them to the gym a lot. And you know, I'm, I'm on the elliptical. I'm up and down off of a bench. They're not riding up. I'm not like doing the. Has anybody looking as I adjust myself, like, that's that you don't want to be that and you're not that with skims. So go check it out. Skims men's is now available@skims.com when you place the order, choose podcast in the post purchase survey and select this show from the dropdown menu to let them know that we sent you. Plus, the skims holiday shop is open. So if you're looking for the perfect gift this season, skims has you covered. Today show is also brought to you by FanDuel. We're here in the NBA season and there's no better place to get started than fanduel, which I'm not getting my graphic here. But anyway, FanDuel can help you keep the game exciting because it has live bets on Everything from who will score next to fourth quarter comebacks. So if you miss the start of the game, no problem. Plus you can even combine your live bets into a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout. Keeps every game exciting, especially when your team's making the late push. Right now, FanDuel is giving you a new customer $5. If you bet $5, you get 300 in bonus bets when your first bet wins. So head on over to FanDuel.com to sign up and play your game with FanDuel. When you sign up, they will ask you to set a budget, set a limit, set a do that and it will help you gamble responsibly. Only set what you can afford to lose. And then if you had a cold streak, fanduel steps in and lets you wait until you get refill that. So don't worry about it. Gamble responsibly@fanduel.com official sports betting partner of the NBA. Thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Now. There's my graphic. All right. Thanks for making Lockdown Celtics the number one sports podcasting network. Sports. Let me start over here. I'm not going to edit this out. Thanks for making Locked on this the number one sports podcasting network on the planet and Locked on Celtics the number one celtics podcast on the planet. Appreciate that. Appreciate you every day as you're with me every Monday through Friday. Subscribe. It's free everywhere. Show is on YouTube. Get into the comments section there. All right, Tom with the score.
- [27:46]
F
You turned it over eight times. But you, you know, you had a good, you had a good ad read. It was good.
- [27:51]
A
That's. Yeah, you know, it was okay. It was, you know, you should have benched me in the middle of the first one.
- [27:58]
F
I was muted. I tried. Yeah.
- [28:03]
A
The Celtics had a lineup of Sam Houser, Namishkeda, Baylor Scheireman, Jalen Brown and Derrick White on the floor. And that's when Sam made the steal, which was Terrence Mann stepping on Sam Houser's foot, falling, and then Sam going, oh, I'll take that, thank you. And that starts a, a run. It was, I think Jalen just hit a free throw. So it was, it was 90 to 90. The Celtics went on a 70 run. And that's where they, they broke the game open. And after the game, I was like Hauser, Keda, Sherman, Brown and White. That's that. I don't remember those guys playing much together. That's because they never, never, not once, not for one second. And Thinking of that combination, I can't imagine that that would even be a combination in practice that would have gotten any run. This may be the first five on five action that group has ever gotten.
- [29:02]
F
Yeah.
- [29:03]
A
And they won on the game.
- [29:06]
F
Yeah. Yeah. It reminded me. So when sometimes I take my son to the local gas station, I let him get like a slushie and, you know, he does the thing that kids do where they're just like, ah, so many options.
- [29:17]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [29:20]
F
And it's like, you know, he creates these. These horrific flavors and. And I think, you know, like. And part of it, right, like, they're their own unique flavor. They've never been tried before. Right. But the reason they've never been tried before is because one of them was pumpkin spice for some reason. You know what I mean? And it's like, I think you look at, like, that lineup and it's like, yeah, that lineup has never been tried before because there was, you know, there was a, A pumpkin spice and then like mango or some other flavor that, like, is very rare. You just. In previous seasons, you didn't see that much keda and you didn't see that much shirement, and you certainly didn't see it with your classic cherries like your Jaylen Brown. Right. So it was like just. Yeah, just. Just a very strange. Yeah. Amalgamation of, of different flavors there.
- [30:04]
A
So, Sharon, Pumpkin spice.
- [30:06]
F
I think so. I think so. Yeah. The. The kind of the. The white girl fall thing going on. Yeah, I think.
- [30:12]
A
Sure. Yeah. Okay. I can see that Joe has to mix and match and like, Sam Houser. It was funny. I did a radio thing in Maine and they asked me, like, did Sam Houser sound like maybe not disgruntled to you, but like a little gruntled? And I was like, you know, I don't know, maybe. I mean, Sam. Sam came into the season as, like, the starter, and then he went to the bench pretty quickly. He had two starts and that was it. Then Ugo Gonzalez got a start, then Josh Minot got nine starts, and then Jordan Walsh got three starts. And like, if you're Sam Houser, you're like, okay, all. All of these guys are better to start than me. And maybe the answer is like, yeah, but this was the game where, like, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam Houser moved back into the starting lineup.
- [30:59]
F
It's coming. Yeah.
- [31:01]
A
You know. Yeah, like, if he's out there getting, like his fourth quarter was. Was really good because he had. He had like five rebounds, three assists, two steals. He was a plus 12 all of those led the team. And that's when your shot's not falling and it finally actually started to fall a little bit. You got to do the other things. And I think the lineup dance that Joe is doing is somebody start, somebody do the other things consistently. The way, the way I see it, Tom, you play around the world, right? The, you shoot from different spots. The way I always played around the world was if you make this, if you make the shot, you move to the next spot. If you miss that shot, you go back to the previous spot. And like, that's, that's how I played. And you can play it around the three point line or up and down the lane, so you get three, you know, you got like five, six, seven spots depending. And to me, that's what this is. Can any one guy make five, six, seven shots in a row? Can somebody do enough where you're like, okay, I've gotten this far. I'm going to go back one spot. But Joe, I've gotten so far that Joe's going to give me time to see if I can get back to, you know, if you go all the way around the world, congratulations, you've won and you are going to be a regular starter. But none of these guys have become regular starters. Like, Josh lost his spot. I don't know if Jordan Walsh is going to lose his spot because he had a, you know, a tough game with the fouls. Now, now here's Sam again with, with a great fourth quarter. So I don't know who. Who's gonna win this game around the world.
- [32:39]
F
Yeah, Yeah. I think that's a good comparison. I, I think. And I, I think that's what, you know, like, like, Joe does seem to really want these guys to be, like, going at each other, you know, like, not going at each other, but like, to like, have a level of desperation here, right? Like, I think that's what if I, like, I don't know what he's saying in the locker room, but, like, the implicit message to me very much seems to be just like, yeah, no, you gotta fight for your spot. You gotta. That is. That could be literally anybody, Sam. That could be anybody. Jordan, that could be anybody. Like, go fight for that spot because it is not promised to you. And if you're, yeah, if you're Sam Houser, right? Like, you know, you've had a few games here where like, yeah, your minutes are down, you're not starting. And like, you know, we just said, like, and I took that personal. He should take that personal. He's an NBA champion. He's been around. He's a veteran. He's been around for a while. He's played huge games. And you're losing your spot to Josh Minot and Jordan Walsh. Like, yeah, you should take that personal. You should come out and do a bunch of little things, even if your shot isn't falling, because, you know, you've been in much bigger positions than, you know, a Tuesday night in Brooklyn in November. Like, that's, you know, like, it's. It's just kind of what it is. So. Yeah, I mean, I. I think it's. It's. It's a very interesting way to. To go about things. I mean, I. I think that there are. I don't know. I'd be curious to know how many coaches in the NBA can get away with it, with. With doing this kind of thing because, like, the guys do kind of buy in on Joe, I think, because Joe is very much himself all the time, right? And so, like, they're like, okay, like, Joe has a reason for doing this. He's not doing this to single me out. He's not doing this because he doesn't like me personally. He's doing this because he has a system. You know, I think that seems to have gotten through to a lot of these guys. So I don't know how many coaches could pull this kind of, like, rotating cast of characters off. But I think. Missoula, can I. I. I think that's. Yeah, I think it's probably going to work for him.
- [34:43]
A
I think Joe has demonstrated to these guys that he does actually care like Joe truly. And I'm not just saying this, like, he truly does care about his players, and he doesn't want. He doesn't want bad things for any of them. At the same time, he expects in return for his devotion to his players, production and 100 effort. 100 production and the understanding that we are here for one common goal, and that is to win, to have a little basketball games. Yeah. Don't buy into that, kid. Don't buy into. That's a cop out. Have we talked about that on this podcast?
- [35:33]
F
I don't think we did. I think I pitched it, and then.
- [35:35]
A
We ended up talking about other things. You know, we gotta. That was such a great answer, but at the same time, the way he said it to that kid was like, it. Don't believe it, man. It's. You know, the. These. These pigs in Washington, man, they're gonna get you.
- [35:58]
F
They sell you on the fun, and then you go nowhere.
- [36:02]
A
Very George Carlin, kind of like it's a scam. They're on. Don't. Don't buy into it, kid. When you grow up, don't say, was so funny. But also like, when you listen to it, it was, you know. Yeah.
- [36:18]
F
What's.
- [36:18]
A
You got to define fun. Like, it's. You can't just be like, ah, well, this doesn't go anywhere. Let's just have some fun. Like. But that. But that's exactly what Joe's doing here with the lineups.
- [36:28]
F
It's.
- [36:28]
A
It's not like, oh, let's just have some fun. It's. No. Our job is to win games as members of the Boston Celtics. And I'm sorry, if you personally don't like what this is, what's happening. If you don't like it, do something about it. That's on you. I am going to go with the guy who can do something most often, most consistently, and I don't care who it is. I'm not playing favorites. If you don't do it, I will go to somebody else who will. And the problem for all of these guys is none of them is really capable of doing it consistently because Sam is an incredible shooter that goes through slumps, and if. If he has bad matchups and he's not defending, then that can be a little messy. Josh Minot can. Can do a lot of things, but not all the time. Jordan, Walsh, same thing. Ugonzales is too young. Even though he has experience. He's 19. He doesn't. He's. He's still figuring out the NBA. All of these guys, Baylor, Scheireman, none of these guys is good enough to be consistent. Sam is probably the closest because he's been around long enough and he understands what Joe wants. But if, again, getting to the other end of around the world, you got it. You got to do all of these things consistently long enough for Joe to be like, okay, this is it. You. Because like, we started with the show. Jalen didn't get benched. He can. He can have eight turnovers. He's in there in the fourth quarter.
- [38:07]
F
He's been around the world many times.
- [38:09]
A
Many, many times.
- [38:12]
F
Literally. And in a basketball sense, yes, yes.
- [38:15]
A
But these guys, they're not saying. They're not. They're not. They're not jailing, they're not Peyton, they're not Derek. And that. That's kind of where that list ends. Yeah, those three guys is where this list ends. Everyone else has the potential to be caught up in this lineup thing. And hey, like, go Earn it. Go earn it. And, and I think that's the number one thing for Joe. You have to earn it. And if you don't, I'm not going to give it to you. What's the point? Like, nothing is given. So that's it. Yep. All right. Well, we figured things out definitively. Definitively, yeah, sort of.
- [38:57]
F
No, no, for sure. I'm, I'm strong on this one. Jalen had a good game. He wasn't benched. And that's, that's it. That's what we figured out.
- [39:05]
A
All right, fair enough.
- [39:06]
F
It's pretty good.
- [39:07]
A
Okay. Thanks, Tom.
- [39:08]
F
Appreciate you, man.
- [39:09]
A
Appreciate you, Tom. Appreciate you listener watcher, viewer here on the YouTube page or in your car, in the shower, listening, all that stuff, walking your dog, wherever you are.
- [39:22]
F
Hello.
- [39:23]
A
Thank you. Thank you for getting all the way to the 37 and a half minute mark. Ooh, that's way too much. But we just have fun here on the Lockdown Celtics podcast. So thank you for subscribing. Become an every day or join your fellow Celtics fans Monday through Friday here. It's free. It's available everywhere. It's on the YouTube page. Get into the comment section, let us know what you think about everything that we've talked about and share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast. Here in the Lockdown Podcast network is your team every day.
- [39:54]
I
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A
What about toys?
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F
Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year?
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I
Yep.
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A
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F
Do you mean they have all the.
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