We EXPLAIN Derrick White's HUGE SLUMP | Is 44 Wins Still Possible?

Summary

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Locked On Celtics – "We EXPLAIN Derrick White's HUGE SLUMP | Is 44 Wins Still Possible?"

Host: John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal)
Guest: Tom Westerholm
Date: October 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Locked On Celtics, hosted by John Karalis with guest Tom Westerholm, dives into the Celtics’ recent win over the Pelicans, examines the causes of Derrick White’s early-season struggles, and revisits preseason predictions about the team’s outlook—specifically whether a 44-win season is still feasible. The focus is on actionable, data-informed breakdowns of player roles and team performance, fostering a measured optimism amidst a challenging early schedule.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celtics’ Recent Win & Early-Season Struggles

Timestamps: 03:10 – 11:01

• Win over Pelicans:
  • The Celtics finally tallied a win, but it was not a clean or revelatory performance.
  • Tom Westerholm quips about how precarious the game felt:

    "Seven [losses] was really not off the table midway through the third quarter... it was teetering." (03:28)

  • Critical moment: Derrick White's defensive play on DeAndre Jordan led to a run that secured the game.
• Perspective:
  • Both hosts discuss whether Boston “took” the game or if the Pelicans failed to exploit the Celtics. Consensus: it was a mixed bag due to the Pelicans’ lack of imposing bigs, and Boston’s three-point shooting finally breaking through:

    "When this team makes threes, they're going to be dangerous." – Tom Westerholm (05:19)

  • Jalen Brown’s perspective post-game is highlighted:

    "I hope they gave us more than a week to figure this out." – Summarized by John Karalis (06:30)

  • Importance of Jalen Brown getting rest during the game (due to foul trouble) and the vulnerability this exposes in Celtics’ roster.

2. Derrick White's Slump: Explaining the Numbers

Timestamps: 11:05 – 23:46

• The Problem:
  • Derrick White’s shooting splits have plummeted: 32.9% FG, 25% from three, on a career-high 11 attempts per game.
• Shot Profile Shift:
  • John Karalis provides a dramatic statistical breakdown:
    • Increase in pick & roll ball-handler possessions (31.2% vs. 22.8% last year).
    • Decrease in spot-up opportunities (19.5% vs. 34.1% last year).
    • Most important insight:

      "65% of his made shots are unassisted this year, a flip from last season where 68% were assisted." (16:18)

  • White is taking far fewer catch-and-shoot chances and far more self-created (and contested) looks.
• Quality of Looks:
  • Wide-open shots (defender 6+ ft away) have dropped by 12% compared to last season.
  • Tightly contested (2-4 ft) attempts are up 6%.
• Panel Analysis:
  • Westerholm:

    "That's a big...that tells the story, right? That is what happens when you lose Jason Tatum, when you lose Drew Holiday ... your role goes way up as the lead ball handler." (17:35)

  • Both agree White is smart and should adjust, but he’s in a dramatically new role.
  • Karalis urges patience:

    "If you trust Derrick White — which I do — this is something that needs time to shake out... He's getting used to a new role." (20:29)

Notable Quote

• "When the smartest kid in the class is struggling, then you know the subject matter is difficult." – John Karalis (23:27)

3. Looking Ahead: Schedule, Optimism, & 44 Wins

Timestamps: 25:53 – 39:30

• Upcoming Games:
  • The next stretch includes Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, and then a softer run (Utah, Washington, Orlando twice).
  • Westerholm and Karalis agree: games against better teams (Cleveland, Philly) will be tough to win. The Celtics tend to beat inferior teams, not better ones.
• Optimism, But Cautious:
  • The four-game soft stretch is pivotal. The hosts agree the Celtics must go at least 3–1 in this run to keep the possibility of 44 wins alive.
  • Both reaffirm preseason predictions:

    "I still feel like they'll finish above .500, wherever that lands. Maybe it's 42, maybe it's 44." – John Karalis (36:30)

  • Signs of progress: If White, Pritchard, Simons settle into roles and rebounding improves, the team can “level up” by midseason.
  • If the Celtics stumble (i.e., go 1–3 or 2–2 in the soft stretch), they may have to adjust expectations to a sub-.500 campaign.

Notable Quotes

• "If you go 3–1 or 4–0 [in the upcoming stretch], then I feel good. If it's 2–2, 1–3 somehow, then...we’re gonna start looking at, okay, below .500 team, because that’s just too much road to make up." – John Karalis (39:01)
• "It's not even mile markers, it's quarter mile markers... You know what kind of pace you're looking at each lap, not each mile." – John Karalis (39:53)

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Memorable Moments & Additional Insights

• Humor:
  • Playful banter about DeAndre Jordan’s longevity and athleticism (“Me and DeAndre Jordan, one and the same,” Tom, 04:57), and Derrick White’s struggles as “the smartest kid in the class” (23:27).
• Fan Perspective:
  • Discussion about Tyrese Maxey’s likability vs. Joel Embiid’s reputation among Celtics fans:

    "Maxey’s hard to dislike on the level that Joel Embiid is." – Tom Westerholm (28:23)

• Team Assessment:
  • Both hosts stress not to overreact to early losses, reminding listeners that every rotation player is in an unfamiliar role this year.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment | |---------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:10 | Pelicans win recap, are Celtics turning the corner? | | 11:05 | Teasing Derrick White’s slump discussion | | 15:14 | Statistical deep dive: Why White is struggling (shot analysis) | | 23:27 | Analogy: “Smartest kid in the class” on White’s challenge | | 25:53 | Looking at the schedule ahead: Cleveland, Philly, Houston, etc. | | 33:25 | Is 44 wins still possible? Team outlook revisited | | 39:01 | The next four games as a season barometer | | 39:53 | Quarter mile markers: How to judge this Celtics team |

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Conclusion

The Celtics’ early-season woes, particularly Derrick White’s shooting slump, are rooted mostly in vastly different offensive responsibilities and a lack of high-quality, catch-and-shoot opportunities. Both Karalis and Westerholm argue for optimism, predicting that with time and consistency against weaker teams, Boston can stabilize their season and potentially reach the mid-40s in wins. However, upcoming games—especially against lesser opponents—will be pivotal in determining whether that optimism holds weight.

Essential Quote:

"He's getting used to a new role. It's just going to take some time." – John Karalis (20:29)

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Transcript

[John Corrales]

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[John Corrales]

Derrick White has started out in a big time slump and I've got the stats that show what might be behind it. It's right now on the lock on Celtics podcast. Huh?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[Ren and Jace]

Be down, be ever ready. It's the seas. Who else could it be? What they going to say now? Screaming like JT Corralis? Recap the madness Every game, every practice, prime time Depp and fight on the sideline. Ren and Jace, how we started raising banners. How we finish Locked on Celtics pot. Home of the winners.

[John Corrales]

Hey there. Welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics podcast right here on the lockdown podcast network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics, and I'm talking about them like every day for the next two weeks because I got bonus podcasts when they play in the Weekends, and they're playing both Friday and Saturday this weekend. Tons of free podcasting. It's all available wherever you get your podcast. If you like to listen to them, if you like to watch them, it's on YouTube. You can get into the comment section. Share your thoughts with me. I'm John Corrales, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal. I've been covering the team for about 20 years now. I've written a couple books about them. And today we're talking about. We're going to. Later on we'll do over reactions or just reactions. We'll just see if maybe we did overreact before. We'll kind of take stock after four games. I get to the Derrick White stuff in the second segment. But first, let's go back in time with Tom Westerholm.

[Tom Westerholm]

What up?

[John Corrales]

How's it going, man?

[Tom Westerholm]

Good, man. Good.

[John Corrales]

Yeah. You know, Celtics, Celtics got the win. So I, you know, we were talking about like, Owen, seven wasn't off the table. One and six, two and five. Still.

[Tom Westerholm]

Seven was really not off the table midway through the third quarter. Yeah, it was like it was teetering.

[John Corrales]

Right. But right before Derek got that steal that or block on. On DeAndre Jordan and. And fed Anthony Simons and. And just basically lit a fuse. That was just fireworks. Yeah, it was still in doubt. It's still in doubt. So.

[Tom Westerholm]

But it was funny because like on the NBC Sports Boston broadcast, like Scalp said, I'm a little worried about this game. And then immediately they went on that run and then scale spent the rest of the broadcast being like, oh, like I was really wrong about that. It's like, you weren't, man.

[John Corrales]

No, you weren't wrong.

[Tom Westerholm]

Wrong at all.

[John Corrales]

We're not wrong. We should have been worried. You should have been worried. Absolutely. Which is like, you know, the, the one thing that we talk about is, I talked about this last night. Like, is, is it the Celtics went out and took this game or is it the. The Pelicans didn't, you know, couldn't make them pay. A little bit of both. Like, I, I feel like there's a little bit of a mix there.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I think a mix is the right word. I think it was like a very mixed bag. Like, for One thing, like, DeAndre Jordan is not Jalen Duran. He's not Carl Anthony Towns. He's not going to punish you the way, I mean, look DeAndre Jordan, like, I'm ecstatic for the man that he's still like dunking the ball like the rim insulted him. Right. Like that.

[John Corrales]

He's seven. Still getting up there, man. It's great.

[Tom Westerholm]

18 years in the league. His knees can still get up and dunk and he can just. Yeah, I love it. One time for all the latest 30s guys out there, we. We. Me and DeAndre Jordan. One and the same is what I'm trying to say.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, yeah. But I don't know what that feels like.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, right.

[John Corrales]

He's so dismissive with that. You're like, you can't even play along. You're like, yeah, right. Anyway.

[Tom Westerholm]

Anyway, no, like, I think. I think the bigs is a big one, right? Like, that's like. Pelicans did not have the bigs to punish the Celtics the way some of the other teams did. I think also, like, the Pelicans just straight up aren't as good as a lot of those teams. Right? And so, like, the Celtics were more able to go out and take a game from the Pelicans and say, like, all right, like, you know, like. But I think. And I think the biggest thing, though was just the threes fell. You know, like, looks this team's going to be able to beat teams when they make threes. You know, that's. That's. That was the case last year. That's the case this year. Like, it. When Anthony Simons makes shots like that, this team's going to be hard to beat. That's. That's. That is a dangerous weapon that opens things up for. For Jalen and. And Peyton Pritchard and, you know, it opens things up all around the court. Sam Houser got a couple of threes in the fourth quarter. Like, when this team makes threes, they're going to be dangerous. And when they can out rebound a team and they make threes, they're probably going to win the game. Like, I think, you know, it's kind of what it came down to last night.

[John Corrales]

And yeah, that. That is the thing. Like, we look at that Pelicans game, and I said this yesterday, it wasn't that it was a materially different basketball game, that the Celtics something clicked or anything like that. And Jalen Brown after the game was very, very much still in the. Hey, look, it's good. It is still going to take time. You know, I loved his line of. Like, I. I hope they gave us more than a week to. To figure this out, you know, and it's true. They. They are in the process. This is again, the same thing that we have been saying. It's going to be a tough beginning. They. They may figure this out somewhere along the way. The optimistic view of this early point of the season was going to be the. Can the shooting get them through the other stuff that they're figuring out? So when the shooting is there, you see the Pelicans game. And in a win and. And maybe if we're looking at can this. Can the Celtics turn things around? You hope that Peyton hit a couple of tough shots. Derek. We'll get to Derek in a minute. But he did hit. He hit one. You're like, okay, you just. Hopefully that. That you. You see one and it starts to maybe trigger something. Anthony got hot. Jalen has been great. Yeah. Shooting the ball. So maybe. Maybe there's a world where. Okay, I, I'm. I'm not optimistic about the Cavs game, but there is a world where. Okay, I didn't mean to be that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Dismissive a second time, but.

[John Corrales]

No, yeah. Absolutely not. But the Sixers, you, like, they're. The Sixers just been so, like Tyrese Maxey and Vijay Edgecombe just, like insane. Yeah. If they have like a normal game somewhere there and the Celtics shoot well, they could. They could beat Philly.

[Tom Westerholm]

Absolutely.

[John Corrales]

So taking two, is there a third game? Can. Can they get that Houston game? I don't know. I think when I look back at the Pelicans game, that's the one thing that if you're trying to be an optimist, if you're trying to just put the green goggles on and be like, Celtics faith, you. You hang your hat on. Anthony went off. That's him getting comfortable. Will be huge. Peyton was great in the two pointers. He was one shot, one main three pointer away from having a good three point percentage. So he. He could be climbing back. And if Derek can get back on track, there's. It's not going to look as bad as it did in. In the first three games.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think it's also worth remembering too. Right. Like, we. When we talked about this for these first seven games, like, we said that they might go 07 for a reason. Right. Like, there's a lot of tough games here. It wasn't just because we were like, oh, we don't believe in the Celtics. It's like, no. Like, even the Pelicans game was the second night of a back to back, a third game in four nights. Like, yeah, Jalen played 24 minutes. And that was such a blessing for the Celtics that they were able to, like, let him sit as long as they did. That was huge foul trouble.

[John Corrales]

That fifth foul was actually the Best thing that could happen to the Celtics.

[Tom Westerholm]

Ah. And it's not. It's not because they're, you know. Oh, they're better without Jalen. Like, that's. That's not it at all. The thing is, like, that guy needed to sit for a little bit, because if he goes down for any stretch, any, like, extended stretch of time.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

This season is like, throw it in the trash, crumple it up, and, like, you know, really get on the Dibanza trade at that point. But, like, you know, like, I mean, that's. That. Like, that. That was. That was really big that they were able to do that, that they were able to get Jalen some rest, because that. That Pelicans game was always. It was always one of the most winnable ones out of these first seven, but it was also still a big challenge. Like, that third game in four nights is hard. And they. You know, the fact that they won that, like, you want to put on green goggles. Hey, this is a team that's, like, that's really struggled. First four games of the season, they've had it. They've had a tough time, and the Pelicans kind of, you know, pushed them a little bit. Right. Like, the Pelicans made them work for it, and they stuck with it, and they still won in less than ideal circumstances. Like, Zion Williamson wasn't playing. So that helped. But, like, you know, like, they still kind of stuck through it and were able to. To play tired, play through it, make some shots. Yeah, I mean, there's. There's reasons for optimism. It's not just that the Pelicans stink, although they kind of do, but it was like a.

[John Corrales]

It was a nice one. Yes. All right. They're gonna need Derrick White.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, we'll get to.

[John Corrales]

We'll get to more like looking forward and. And assessing our reactions. In the third segment, Derrick White. If. If he can't get going, then that. That's a problem. The question coming into the season we talked about it was, can he create for himself? What's life going to be like without Jason Tatum and Kristaps Porzingis and the shot profile? I have stats, Tom. I have.

[Tom Westerholm]

Can't wait. I'm so excited for these stats.

[John Corrales]

These are.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't even know what these stats are. You wouldn't tell me.

[John Corrales]

I won't tell you. I will tell everybody when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by Quo. One of the tools that helps make a huge difference for a business owner is Quo. Formerly open phone. It's the same great business phone system that you've heard me talk about before, just with a new name. And here's why it matters. Every missed call is money left on the table. When every customer conversation counts, you need a phone system that keeps you connected. 24. 7 quo is the number one business phone system that streamlines customer communications. It works right through an app on your phone or your computer so you don't have to carry two phones or rely on a landline. It lets you. It lets your whole team share one number and collaborate on calls, texts and a shared inbox so no customer gets left hanging. There's a built in AI agent that can answer after hours calls, capture leads and keep business moving even when you're off the clock. That is a game changer. See why over 90,000 businesses trust quo Formerly open phone get started free and get 20 off your first months at quo q u o.com quo.com lockdown mba quo.com locked on mba and if you've got existing numbers with another service Quo will port them over at no extra charge. Quo no missed calls, no missed customers Today's show is also brought to you by Rippling. If you're a business owner, here's something else for you. SaaS promised to make work easier, but now the average company is buried by hundreds of apps that slow you down and simply don't work together. That's not SaaS. That's sad software as a disservice. That's why you need Rippling. Rippling is a unified platform for global hr, payroll, IT and finance all in one place. They've helped millions of businesses replace a mess of disconnected tools with one system designed to give leaders clarity, speed and control. It removes bottlenecks and busy work that slows teams down. That is always something that you need to get rid of. Everything from onboarding to payroll to IT access runs automatically and perfectly in sync. It's seriously simple to use. It gives companies one source of truth for their people, data and everything they touch. And you can get 6 months free when you go to rippling.com lockedonnba learn more at rippling.com lockdown mba r I p p l I n g rippling.com lockdown NBA for 6 months free thank you for making lockdown celtics your first listen. Every day. Check out Lockdown NBA Game Night. I will be on Game Night tomorrow, the Wednesday show with Jake Madison covering all the games in the association. So check that out. Lockdown NBA on the same feed covers all the big storylines of the Day, game night is seven days a week. Lockdown. NBA is five days a week. Find that where you found this podcast. All right, Tom. Derrick White is in a little bit of a slump. His shooting numbers are down. He is, is not scoring well. It's. It's just been a struggle for Derek. His shooting percentages this year, 32.9 overall. These aren't the stats, by the way, but 32.9 overall. 25 from three. He's taking 11 three pointers a game, two more than he took last year. And that was a career high by over 2. The question is why? Tom, these are the stats. Do you mind if I get dramatic about this, please? Okay, I'm gonna put my glasses on. Glasses.

[Tom Westerholm]

Do you have like, you have like applause and you have booing. Do you have like, do you have like one of those sounds?

[John Corrales]

Do I have one of those sounds? No. Nope.

[Tom Westerholm]

Dramatic gasp.

[John Corrales]

I got this to signify his shooting percentage. Maybe.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

I've got my notebook here. My Wilson basketball looking notebook here.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's good.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, for, for people, like, people listening, like, don't care. But I've put my glasses on and I've pulled out my notebook for dramatic effect. Derrick White as a pick and roll ball handler this year has done it 31.2% of the time. Last season, 22.8% of the time. So he's a pick and roll ball handler. It's up about 10%. His spot ups this year, 19.5% of his possessions are spot ups. Last year, 34.1% spot ups. That right there. And I got more numbers, but that right there. Let's just talk about that for a second.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's big. That is a, that's a big 15.

[John Corrales]

15 drop in spot up shots and more time as the pick and roll ball handler, which is that. You can see that. You can see that in his game. And catch and shoot is a more efficient shot. Right. You. This is where the Tatum Porzingis departure unavailability is, is, is showing itself where he has to create more for himself. And if he's not spotting up and getting, getting catch and shoots, then he's had. He has to create for himself before you react to that quick, small sample size because it's only 23 made field goals, but 15 of those are unassisted. That's 65. A little over 65% unassisted last year. That's a flip from last year where 68 of his shots were assisted. Were assisted. So last year, 68 of his makes were assisted this year only through four games and only 23. So it can change tomorrow, like in a, in a blink. Yeah, but, but 65 unassisted. He has to create for himself a lot. So before I get to the other numbers, that right there is very, very telling with Derek.

[Tom Westerholm]

It is, Yeah. I mean, honestly, I don't know how much I even have to add to that. Like, that, that's, that tells the story, right? Like, that's, like, that's, that is what happens when you lose Jason Tatum. That is what happens when you lose Drew Holiday. That is what happens, you know, like on, on a much less talented team where your role goes way up as the lead ball handler. I mean, I guess I kind of. I want to hear the rest of your stats before I get too deep into this. I am, I'm curious to see how he, I, I'm curious to see how he develops in this because I do think that like, Derek White is a really good basketball player and I think he'll get better at this as it goes, as the season goes on. But. Yeah, no, I wanna, I want to hear the rest of your stats before I get too deep down that rabbit hole.

[John Corrales]

One more set of stats. Closest defender. So on wide open shots, which is like six feet away, that, that he, he's taking, this is percentage of shots taken. Last season, 36.1% of his shots were wide open. This year, 24.3% are wide open. So it's a 12% drop in wide open shots spread out over the, the open shots are the same. He's getting the same amount of open shots. 34 and a half percent of his shots are open.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay.

[John Corrales]

But with the defender up tight, which is 2 to 4ft, which is very enough space to challenge shots. This year, 15.7% of his shots are tightly defended. Last year, 9.8. So it's a 6% jump in shots where the defender is on him and a 12 drop in shots where nobody was around it. So those, those are my stats. Those are my Derek White stats.

[Tom Westerholm]

And a 15 drop in spot ups.

[John Corrales]

Which in a 15 in a. Yes, 15 drop in a little bit more than that in spot up shots. So he's not getting catch and shoots. The defenders are on him. He's not getting, he's not getting as many wide open looks and he's, he's not getting as many. He has to create for himself because most of his shots are unassisted. Most of his makes are unassisted. It's a complete change for Derek. It's a complete change, which makes me say, I am not worried about the slump necessarily right now because this is a drum. Such a dramatically different kind of role. Yeah, the preseason was so meaningless that. Yeah, that, like, Jalen nailed it last night when he was like, you know, we're out there. We're seeing these, you know, right away, you got guys in your face. It's like we're seeing it at full speed. Like, it's going to take time. If you trust Derrick White, which I do. He has earned my trust as a basketball player.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

I think this is something that needs time to shake out, and that's going to be the game slowing down for him again, because I think. I think it's just moving too fast right now. It's other guys making shots. Yeah, it's. It's. Some of it is like, scheme it. It. It might be a change in the personnel, the grouping that he's with. Maybe you take. Maybe you put Simons in the starting lineup to take a little bit more of the attention and you take some of that away.

[Tom Westerholm]

Y.

[John Corrales]

You know, like, there are little tweaks that can be made. I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, these numbers show that Derrick White's screwed.

[Tom Westerholm]

No, no, certainly not.

[John Corrales]

I think what these numbers show is. It's going to take. It's going to take a minute for Derek to be like, okay, because he's smart. He's smart enough and he's getting. He is getting looks. He's taking a lot more early. Early offense, three pointers. Maybe he needs to settle that down a little bit. I think he's searching for his shot a little bit. I think if he just settles down, calms down and just runs a little bit more offense and lets the game come to him a little bit more, he'll be okay. But what these numbers show me is he. He's getting used to a new role. It's just going to take some time.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. I think I'd be curious to see what happens if he. Like you mentioned, he's taking more early offense shots. You know, if he was able to. If you put. If you put more lineups with him and even if. Even if you don't start Simons, if you. More lineups with, like, you know, Derek Pritchard, Simons in, like, there's going to be defensive issues with those lineups, not because of Derek, obviously, but, you know, the other two. Like, I. I'd be curious to see what happens then offensively if Derek is able to kind of Take more of a facilitating role, less of. Like that. Like, one great way to have the game slow down a little bit for you is to be more of a facilitator, right? Is to, like, ok, like, okay, dribble through the pick and roll. And you're not putting it on yourself to. To take the shot. It's not. Yeah, I don't have to take this shot. I can. I can. I can make this pass. I can trust that things are gonna feel like, you know, if we keep working the ball around, things are going to work out a little bit better. We'll get a better shot. Generate shots, right? Like, that's a big thing we talked about last year was how often they were able to actually generate shots as opposed to just hoisting them. You know, stuff like that. But I'm. But I'm with you quite a bit at this. At this stage, especially, like, it's. It's so early. This is such a new role for him. This is. This is a new role for everybody, right? Every single player on this team is in a new role. And like, yeah, it's not gonna look. It's not gonna look pretty at the start. So I think it. It's a little jarring when it's Derrick White, because with Derrick White, you just think of, like, just, you know, perfect, solid, does everything correctly kind of player, right? And so it's like when Derek White is doing things wrong, it's like, all right, yeah, yeah, yeah, something's wrong here.

[John Corrales]

But when the smartest kid in the class is struggling, then you know, the subject matter is difficult.

[Tom Westerholm]

When the smartest kid in the class is struggling, like, Brad Stevens really made things hard on these guys.

[John Corrales]

We'll take this into account.

[Tom Westerholm]

Professor Stevens really advance things too quickly on these guys.

[John Corrales]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like they skipped a grade. Oh, my God. So let's look forward and take. Take this into account because I think Derrick White's performance is just something that you have to consider moving forward. When we look at what we thought the Celtics were going to be or is it Is. Is. Has this changed anything about what we think they're going to be moving forward? We'll talk about that when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by peloton shaping the future of fitness with the brand new peloton cross training tread plus. Powered by Peloton iq, it's their most advanced equipment yet. Designed to give you real time, guidance and endless ways to move, whether you're running, lifting, or cross training with your favorite Instructors. This is training Reimagined Peloton is built for breakthroughs with tools that help you plan, stay motivated and reach peak performance. The Peloton IQ system offers real time strength coaching. It actually tracks your reps. It suggests the right weights, which is a big mistake that people make. A lot of times people use too much weight. Peloton IQ suggests the right weights. It corrects your form so every rep is safer and smarter and you can get those gains. The swivel screen is a game changer. You can go from running on the Tread plus to strength training without missing a beat. And the personalized class recommendations keep you engaged. You get workouts tailored to your vibe and energy level each week. So let yourself run, lift, flex and push forward. Explore the new peloton cross training tread plus today at 1peloton.com Today's show is sponsored by Indeed.

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[John Corrales]

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Every day. Go check out Lockdown fantasy basketball. Make that your second listen. Join Josh Lloyd, get his expertise and win your fantasy league. He's going to get you filled in on all the ads, the drops, the just the lineup moves that you need to win your league. He's the best at this and he will help. So check it out wherever you found this podcast. Tom Celtics 1 and 3. They are now going up against Cleveland, which we were, you know, we're both like okay, it's, it's not going to be an easy one. Nope. Philly. It kind of depends. Like it's Maxi and Edgecombe, man, you might if, if put Philly aside. That feels like like your kind, your kind of guys. Like the Edge Comb just.

[Tom Westerholm]

Oh absolutely. I mean awesome basketball players. Like yeah. Maxi especially. Honestly, I, I, I was so impressed by him over the last couple of years just because like it's, there's, there's guys right? Like it's, I think it It. It speaks to the modern NBA, where it's like a guy with his physical attributes, right. Could have been a star previously, even if he couldn't shoot. You know, John Wall was a superstar, and he couldn't really shoot. And, like, you know, you were able to, like, scheme some of that out, but, like. But then Maxi comes out and he's just, like, banging three pointers. And then he's also running that fast with the ball. He's. He's awesome. He's a really great basketball player. I like.

[John Corrales]

It's so funny. I'll always remember I was. I was in Kentucky visiting friends, and they had a game, so I was like, let me. Let me see what this is all about. Let me see what this game is all about. And I don't do a ton of college scouting. I usually wait till they get to the NBA. And I went there, and it was literally his worst game ever. It was his absolute worst game in college. I'm like, this is the guy. This is what. People are going crazy. Really? I'm like, this is. Does not impress me at all.

[Tom Westerholm]

You weren't alone. Like, he was a top prospect coming out of high school, and then he went. You know, he didn't. He wasn't like a top five pick or anything like that.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

So. But anyway, so it kind of depends on, you know, Max is going to make the decision, I think, on whether the Celtics win or lose that game on. On Friday.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay, one more. One more Maxi thing real quick. If you Celtics fans hate the Sixers, right? And, like, you know, fair enough. Obviously, Right. Big rivalry. But, like, Maxi is interesting because Celtics fans, I think, hate the Sixers and also really hate Joel Embiid.

[John Corrales]

Yes.

[Tom Westerholm]

Maxi's, like, hard to dislike on the level that Dwell. Embiid is. It's like you. You can't dislike him that.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, no, I don't dislike him.

[Tom Westerholm]

You can because he's like a Sixer, and Celtics fans hate the Sixers. Like, that's fair. Totally. But, like, the other stuff with him is, like, he's not flopping around. He's not.

[John Corrales]

No, he's legit. He's legit. He's legit. And he's like. He seems to be having fun personality. He's just like.

[Tom Westerholm]

He's not even talking about trash. No, he's just out there running really fast.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, he's just like. He looks like a dude that's having fun. You're like, it's not that you. I don't know. For me, it's not even, like, I hate him because of the Sixers. It's like. It's a shame that he's playing for the Sixers. I want to like this guy more than I do, so. But then you get Houston, which I don't know. I don't know what to. I don't know what to make of that game. It's. It's probably gonna go poorly because Houston is just massively big. I think that's the thing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Even if the Celtics, like, are. Are playing well, it's gonna be like, wow, the first shot defense was great. And then it's like, 35 offensive rebounds because they're just all 10ft tall.

[Tom Westerholm]

See? And I'm curious about that game because I do think that there's something to the. The level of attention to detail that the Celtics will have to pay in that game. Right. To not like. To not give up, like, literally a 100% offensive rebound rate. Like, they're gonna have to pay, like, really close attention, you know, like, they're gonna have to be really locked in. And there is. I mean, you can't do that for an entire season, but you can do it for a game. You know, I'm curious if that. If that.

[John Corrales]

That's gonna be a fascinating game, because it could go absolutely horribly. It really could. It could. It could be, like, a real good test of their discipline. They're like, okay, we all know. We all know what the scouting report is. Crash and torch, the Celtics and second chance points. Houston is massively big. They're going to try that. Everybody knows what's coming. Do you have it in you to fight that in? Like, we're like. It's almost like a. Where's your pride? And they might still do everything right and lose.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And even if that's the case, so be it. If you look at the film, you'd be like, look, they were boxing out. They did it. It's just like Derrick White was going up against, you know, whoever and, you know, just got. Just jump over him and got the rebound. So. Okay, so they're one in three.

[Tom Westerholm]

I just looked up Stephen. Stephen Adams. Career highs in both points and rebounds. 27 points is his career high in. In points. 23 rebounds is his career high in rebounds. Do we think that he can break both of those in the same game?

[John Corrales]

Well, he would have to break his career high in rebounds to get those points.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Right.

[John Corrales]

So. So the answer is yes. Unless, like, I don't know, Chris Boucher decides to go full Robert Parrish and just Karate chop the hell out of him. But he's like this. Stephen has this big Australian dude. Like, he might love it. He might just like, what's that? New Zealander. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what, you know, Oceana.

[Tom Westerholm]

He.

[John Corrales]

If you, if you cry, chop him. He might not. He'd be like, good one, mate. And he's like, all right, let's go. That's how we're doing it. Let's fight. So, yeah, I. It's. It's entirely possible. But then they've got Utah, Washington, Orlando, twice. Orlando's offense is hot garbage. Really bad garbage. So the Celtics, like, of the Magic.

[Tom Westerholm]

Winning the east may have been over exaggerated just a smidge.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, like, I think Pete. I think. I think the Desmond Bain acquisition was doing a lot of work, a lot of work in those predictions. Yeah, it's. It's not out of the question. I mean, look, sell. This could go in a little bit of a. Like, I, I was talking about 0 and 7. Yeah. But I will gladly be like 4. Four games in a row. Could they do it? Utah, Washington, Orlando, twice. Tough to beat the team twice, but, you know, again, they've got size and they're tough, but they, they can't score to hurt the Celtics. So there's the possibility. Okay, let's say they go two and five. Yeah, they could, they could end up six and five, you know, by the time they face Philly for the third time, you know, in four weeks, which is weird. I'm not going to put that out of the question either. 6 and 5 Celtics is not out of the question. So when I look at 44 wins, I'm like, that's still, that's still in play. A 44 win team is still in play. What do you think about that before I follow this up? Follow it up?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I think I, I think even if you go three and four against, like, even if you, if you, Even if you plan on. Or three and one, even. Even if you win three out of four, let's say you drop one of those games for the Magic because, yeah, it is tough. You know, it's tough to beat a team two times in a row. And it's, you know, the Celtics team isn't like, you know, doesn't look like amazing. Right. So let's say you go. Let's say you go three and one over that stretch. Like five and six is not like all. That's. That looks a lot better then it looks a lot better than like where they would be coming out of this stretch. Here, right? Like, that's so. Yeah, no, I think when you look at like the way that we kind of talked about this team like before the season and what we predicted, I, I, I felt we were talking before we got on. I, I still feel pretty good about all of it. This did Nothing, these starting 1 and 3 did nothing to change my mind about, about where I think this team is. I think you saw them lose to a much better team. In the Knicks, you saw them almost beat a somewhat comparable team. In the Sixers, you saw like, that was a really close game like that. You know, Matt, we just thought we just got done, you know, talking all this nice stuff about Maxi. But like that Sixers team is like, okay, right? And like really close. Were tailor made to beat the Celtics. Like, they were good. That was a tough game. That's going to be a tough matchup for the Celtics all year. And then they beat a worst team in the Pelicans. I think that's what we're looking at this year. I think that that's why we're both like, yeah, this Cleveland game is going to be tough. Like they're probably going to lose that one because Cleveland is the better team. And I don't know how many games the Celtics are going to win against teams where you're like, that team is better. But if they can kind of, if they can go, if they can beat most of the worst teams and be about 500 on the teams that are at their level, I think you're kind of okay. I think that's where you start to look at like, yeah, you're, you're playing, you're six seed, whatever it is. That's that, that's how you get to that is just B500 against the comparable teams. Win most of your games against the bad ones. And that's what we've seen so far.

[John Corrales]

That, and that my follow up was going to be where our level of confidence was that they can do what they, they do. And I am 100 in agreement with you. I think the win against the Pelicans kind of confirmed everything that you just said, that they didn't play a different game. They, they beat a team that was worse than them and they are just like I've said, I don't know, a dozen times at this point, exactly what you said. They're not going to beat the better teams. They're just once, once in a while. Once in a while.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right.

[John Corrales]

You know, like they could win, they could beat the Cavs. Right. It's not out of the question. They probably won't. But that doesn't mean.

[Tom Westerholm]

Really hard to imagine Donovan Mitchell not.

[John Corrales]

But anyway, yeah, they probably have like a 25 to 30 chance of winning that game. But that doesn't mean that, that means that you play 10 times, you win three. Maybe this is one of those three. Maybe the shooting, maybe they shoot 45 from three. The Cavs are cold and the Celtics just do a math and win that game. That is possible against the good teams. Same thing's gonna happen against bad teams. We where they're going to map their way out of it with bad shooting, but it will all level off ultimately. Lose to the good teams, beat the bad teams. And what happens in that creamy middle is where you're going to get to that 44, 45 wins. I don't know. Like 44, 45 is still a bit optimistic because you're, you're asking, you're asking for a lot of improvement. But I do think that by January, February, I'm not taking any Jason Tatum stuff into account here. By January, February. There is a point here where just looking at the February schedule, there's an All Star break here. But Milwaukee, Dallas, Houston, Miami, New York, Chicago, you know, they, they could beat Milwaukee. I don't know. We'll see what Milwaukee is at that point. You know, Yas is doing work right now. Dallas, who the hell knows? Houston, we just talked about. We'll see Miami, they should, they can win. The Knicks are better, but we'll see Chicago, I don't know what Chicago is. They seem okay, but those are winnable. Those are winnable. And then, you know, the west coast trip's going to be difficult. You can split February by March. You have games, let's see you get Charlotte, Dallas, you got a Washington in there. You got games that are winnable. There's no seven game winning streak, but there might be a three or four in there somewhere. And if this stuff comes together, if Jalen's. It takes time comes to pass and guys figure things out and things slow down for Derek White and things slow down for Peyton Pritchard and maybe Simons and Pritchard switch places and Simons becomes a starter and he's a little bit more comfortable and Pritchard's a little bit more comfortable coming off the bench and things just come together a little bit and they, they become a slightly below average rebounding team as opposed to the worst rebounding team. They'll be okay. And I still feel like they'll finish above.500, wherever that lands. Maybe it's 42, maybe it's 44. I still think they're going to be in above 500 teams. They can be in above 500 teams, but I'll tell you that, that stretch after. After the Houston game that I was just talking about, Utah, Washington, Orlando, twice, if they. If they flub that, then. Then we have to revisit that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

This is like, I don't want to make things pivotal or must wins, because we're not talking about that. But when it comes to predictions, you got to go three and one in that Utah, Washington, Orlando, twice stretch. Like, if you. If you go 3, 1, or 4, 0, then I feel good. If that's 2 and 2, 1 and 3 somehow, then. Then. Okay, then we're gonna start looking at. Okay, below 500 team, because that. That's just too much road to make up. So.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And. And at that point, you start.

[John Corrales]

Look. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Having more dire conversations. Yes.

[John Corrales]

Right. So, like, this. We'll have to revisit this November 10th is. We're gonna have to take stock a little bit again, you know, and it's. We'll wrap it up like this. I think that's what kind of team this Celtics team is. It's not even mile markers. It's the quarter mile markers.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

You know. You know what kind of pace you're looking at each lap, not each mile. Okay, how are we doing the first lap? Are we slowing down? Oh, God. This is gonna be tough to get through this entire race, you know, so these little stretches. So that first stretch, that Houston game ends the first opening stretch. They got one win. Can they get two? Can they get the three? I don't know. The next stretch is those four games that I mentioned. You got to come out of that. Looking good. One game above 500, one game below 500, if not. So we'll see. Yep. All right. In the meantime, first things first. Cleveland Cavaliers, Wednesday night in Boston, though. We'll see. Tom. Appreciate you, man.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate you, man.

[John Corrales]

And I do appreciate you. The listeners, the everydayers, the people who have chosen to be with me every Monday through Friday. This week, it's Friday, it's Saturday, it's Sunday. So I'm here for you seven days this week. It's two straight weeks of podcasting. It's all free. It's all available everywhere. It's all on YouTube. So watch, listen, comments. Get into the comment section, and most importantly, please share the podcast. Tell everybody that they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.

[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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