Were we WRONG about Boston bigs? | NBA GMs SNUB Celtics in Rankings

Summary

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Locked On Celtics Podcast: Were We WRONG about Boston bigs? | NBA GMs SNUB Celtics in Rankings

Host: John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal)
Guest: Tom Westerholm (Boston.com)
Date: October 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

John Karalis and Tom Westerholm dive into preseason takeaways from the Celtics’ win over the Grizzlies, reexamine the narrative around Boston’s big men, discuss what to watch for against the Toronto Raptors, and react to the annual NBA GM survey that surprisingly snubs the Celtics in multiple categories. The tone is insightful, self-aware, and often playful, with candid criticisms and an insider’s understanding of the Celtics' roster construction and NBA politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Takeaways from the Grizzlies Game

(starts at 05:05)

• Big Standouts: Derrick White and Jalen Brown played well, but the biggest surprise was Luca Garza’s performance.
  • “My biggest takeaway was I didn’t expect Luca Garza to look as good as [he did].” – Tom Westerholm (05:28)
• Luca Garza’s role: Garza impressed by setting hard screens, rolling to the rim, and doing the little things needed to function in Boston's offensive system. Westerholm likens his archetype to Luke Kornet—playing smart, unselfish basketball that makes teammates better.
  • “A pick and pop big man who all of a sudden is like, you know what? No, I'm gonna just roll to the basket a whole bunch of times and go straight at the rim.” – Tom Westerholm (05:55)
• Xavier Tillman’s Impact: Tillman also fits naturally and functionally into the Celtics' system, showing great timing on screens and unselfish play.
  • “Just here to reverse and get the ball to the other side…and then I’m going to go do a pitch and chase with Derrick White…all that stuff.” – John Karalis (07:22)

Meta-Narrative: Have We Underestimated the Celtics' Bigs?

• The analysis goes beyond individual talents: it centers on how “system bigs” (like Kornet previously) thrive in Boston’s designed style.
  • “Maybe we’re thinking about the Celtics bigs…kind of wrong.” – John Karalis (08:15)
• Boston’s apparent ability to reclaim undervalued big men could set up a sustainable, budget-friendly model for roster construction:
  • “Bring us your reclamation project, Bigs, and we’ll just sign these guys to two three year contracts and just keep funneling them out…That would be huge.” – John Karalis (13:09)

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2. What to Watch For Against the Raptors

(starts at 16:39)

• Carryover Points: The focus is not on stats, but decision making, timing, and chemistry—especially as new or rested players (like Simons, Pritchard, and Kata) enter the fold.
  • “It’s the decision making. It’s the timing. Can you build on that kind of stuff?” – John Karalis (17:46)
• N. Keita’s Audition: Both hosts are skeptical/excited to see if Keita shows the same “professionalism” and mastery of big-man fundamentals as Garza and Tillman.
  • “Keda has always been this, like, flashes guy…Now what you need to see from him is…that he can also contribute on that professional level.” – Tom Westerholm (19:53)
• Simons' Role: Tom is driving the “Anthony Simons hype train,” focusing on whether he can buy into the system and impact both sides of the ball.
  • “If Simons buys into this system, I think he’s a really dangerous, really good player…It just comes down to buy-in, right?” – Tom Westerholm (23:18)

Memorable Moment

• The hosts jokingly barter Minot and Simons “stock,” reflecting their player preferences and what Boston fans might be excited for.
  • “You own all the Anthony Simons stock for sure…maybe we can like sell each other some of the…Take some Minot stock.” – John Karalis & Tom Westerholm (24:09–24:26)

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3. NBA GM Survey Reaction: Are the Celtics Being Snubbed?

(starts at 29:21)

• GM Survey Dissection: The annual exercise, supposedly polling league insiders, yields little respect for the Celtics—ranking them 8th (!) in the Eastern Conference, behind questionable teams.
  • “Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, and then Boston. What!” – John Karalis (31:28)
  • Both hosts express disbelief at the amount of faith placed in Philadelphia and Atlanta compared to Boston.
  • “I’m not buying Milwaukee either.” – Tom Westerholm (33:01)
• Coach Recognition: Joe Mazzulla is mostly omitted from ‘Best Coach’ categories except for a nod in ‘Best Defensive Schemes.’ The hosts note the inconsistency and lack of recognition.
• Position Confusion & Survey Validity:
  • The GM survey exposes a lack of clarity about NBA positions (e.g., Luka Doncic appearing as top three in three different positions).
  • “How many minutes has Luka played at small forward? Like, ever?” – John Karalis (35:30)
  • The hosts openly question the authenticity of the survey results, joking that few real GMs actually fill it out.
  • “Of the 30 GMs, how many actually fill this thing out? 3, 4?…There’s no way Brad fills this out.” – John Karalis (37:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Exchanges

• On Boston’s System for Bigs:
  “Look at Luke Kornet and be like, bro, if I do this right…I could put—Luke Kornet just got four years, 40 million.” – Tom Westerholm (11:36)

• On the Value of System Buy-In:
  “It just comes down to buy-in, right? That’s, that’s really what it is with them.” – Tom Westerholm (23:18)

• On the GM Survey Reality Check:
  “GM, whose job it is to look at the round at the league would say, 'I’m getting Luka to be my small forward.' He’s a point guard. He’s your point guard.” – John Karalis (36:18)

• On Survey Silliness:
  “I promise you, they don’t think this dumb thing.” – Tom Westerholm (37:21)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:05 — Start of Celtics/Grizzlies basketball analysis
• 05:28-06:50 — Garza and big new look at Boston’s center rotation
• 08:15-13:09 — Rethinking the bigs as system successes; Boston as a “big man reclamation line”
• 16:39-18:56 — Raptors preview; what to watch for in decision-making and chemistry
• 19:53-21:59 — Keita’s challenge to match new “big man professionalism”
• 22:37-23:59 — Anthony Simons’ buy-in potential
• 29:21-31:28 — GM Survey segment begins; disbelief at disrespect for Celtics’ ranking
• 35:30-36:18 — Position confusion in the survey (Luka at “small forward”)
• 37:21-38:16 — Questioning who actually fills out the GM survey

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Episode Tone & Style

John and Tom alternate between wry skepticism of league narratives (especially national media and survey “clout”), deep respect for roster-building nuances, and the playful critique fans will recognize. Their Celtics analysis focuses as much on culture, buy-in, and the “conveyor belt” concept for big men as on individual player skills. The episode rewards both hardcore fans and NBA observers who value sharp, unfiltered basketball discussion.

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Recommended For: Celtics fans, NBA roster nerds, anyone curious about how non-star players can swing team-building, and those looking for a healthy skepticism toward popular league narratives.

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Listen to the full podcast for more:

• Roster updates and match previews
• Deep dives into player archetypes and fit
• More unfiltered takes on “fake” GM surveys

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Transcript

[John Corcoran]

It's the locked on podcast network. Your team every day.

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Dana]

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[John Corcoran]

Warning.

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[John Corcoran]

Is there anything to really take away from that? Win over the Grizzlies. And why do NBA GMS hate the Celtics so much? We'll talk about it right now in the Lockdown Celtics podcast, huh?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[Lockdown Celtics Intro Announcer]

Beam Town be ever ready. It's the seas. Who else could it be what they gonna say now screaming like J.T. corralis recap the madness Every game we practice prime time Depp and D White on the sideline Ren and J's how we started raising ban is how we finish Locked on self this pod home of the winner.

[John Corcoran]

Hey there. Welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics podcast right here on the Lockdown Podcast network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics and we talk about them here Monday through Friday. Bonus podcast when they play like on Friday night against the Raptors. Yeah, I'll give you a bonus podcast. So six free podcasts for you this week. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Watch the show on YouTube, get into the comments section, join the everydayers, become an everydayer and be with me every time I drop a new show. I'm John Corralis, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal. I've been doing a version of this job covering the Celtics for about 20 years now. I've also written a couple of books about the team. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can bet five bucks and if your bet wins, you get 300 in bonus bets to use across the app. Head to FanDuel.com to get started. Today is GM survey day and we're going to talk about that in the third segment. Not a ton of love there in the in for the Boston Celtics, but where they have the Celtics slotted in the east is going to make a lot of you angry. And people don't know what positions anybody plays. So that's going to be the second segment in the first and second, that's gonna be the third segment. The first and second segments, we'll talk about last night's game or two nights ago. But whenever you listen to this against the Grizzlies, anything we could take away, what are we looking for against the Toronto Raptors? And when I say we, I mean me and Tom Westerholm. You can find his work on Boston.com Tom, how are you?

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm good, man. How are you?

[John Corcoran]

I'm great. I'm debuting. If you're watching on YouTube, I'm debuting my Halloween costume. I'm. I am a Rhode island leaf peeper from Schenectady. I forgot my warm clothes and I had to go buy a tourist Newport hoodie. Yeah. A Rhode Island FC hat.

[Tom Westerholm]

And so it's good too, because you picked a, you picked a good, a good color that whenever you, whatever touristy food you eat, when you spill on it.

[John Corcoran]

Yes.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's gonna. It's gonna be.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Forever.

[John Corcoran]

This thing is gonna be like. You buy it, you pay, like, 70 bucks for it, and you're like, oh, man, this is nice. This is actually a nice hoodie. And then by the. The time you're done with your trip, it's the one you wear outside at fires. Like, that's. It's all it's good for. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

This has been fit. Talk with.

[John Corcoran]

That's it at the beginning. This is what happens when it gets to be 40 degrees and you're like, oh, my God, it's so cold out. All right, so let's start off with the. Okay, everybody, we're at timestamp 305. We start talking about basketball. The. Let's just. You. You do takeaways on Boston.com. what are your big takeaways from the. The game against the Grizzlies?

[Tom Westerholm]

So, I mean, I think, you know, Derrick White and Jalen Brown looks great. My biggest takeaway was I didn't expect Luca Garza to look as good as.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, I was.

[Tom Westerholm]

I know everybody wanted to, like, talk about Ugo and, you know, like, you know. Sure, yeah, he looks. He looked. Yeah, he looked. Looked like a, you know, solid rookie. Like, you know, fine Luca Garza looking like slightly shorter Luke Cornett and setting phenomenal screens, resetting phenomenal screens, doing all these little things. A pick and pop big man who all of a sudden is like, you know what? No, I'm gonna just roll to the basket a whole bunch of times and go straight at the rim. Get to the free throw line a ton. Not an amazing free throw shooter, but, like, he got there a lot. He created a lot of really good opportunities. Real interesting. I. I did not have my hopes nearly as high for Luca Garza as I think maybe I should have. I thought he looked great. I. I thought that, to me, he was maybe the biggest takeaway of the evening. Like, that. It's just like, we spent the whole summer talking about, you know, like, oh, the Celtics don't have anybody who can, you know, they don't have any bigs. They don't have any bigs. And how many bigs. Very first game, a guy comes in and, like, kind of. I really like the way Garza looked, so.

[John Corcoran]

I agree. I'm gonna throw Xavier Tillman in this.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

Because he started, first of all, weird starting lineup, which I didn't read into because Joe Missoula said, do not read into this. So I did not read into it.

[Tom Westerholm]

But it was. Kata. Was Sitting like. Sure.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah. Right. So. Right. And we'll get into some of that maybe in the second segment what to watch for because three main guys didn't play. I assume they're going to play against Toronto. So that makes what to watch for pretty easy. Yes. But Garza, everything you said about Garza is true. Now I, I did do a little bit of a breakdown on Boston Sports Journal where I just, I wanted to show people kind of like what the uptempo stuff looks like. And you had the one classic example of ball starts on one side, goes to the other side. There's multiple picks, there's like six, seven options. And in the middle of it was Tillman. Just now when we talk about looking like Luke Cornett, he did the same type of thing where it was screen, get the ball, turn, just. I'm not, I'm not doing anything with this. I'm turning, I'm just, I'm here to reverse and get the ball to the other side and then I'm going to go do a pitch and chase with Derrick White and get him open and then I'm going, you know, all of that stuff. So I lump him in just to say, like, maybe, maybe we're thinking about the Celtics bigs in, you know, kind of wrong.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

Like this is nothing against Luke Cornette, who is actually doing well.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

In San Antonio. So he, he's, he's good. Not a product of the system. But also I think the system kind of launched him into that trajectory. Now Garza and Tillman and these other guys are in the system and like, oh wait, they're doing the same things because that's what was asked of them. And Luke Cornett took that and ran with it and became like he earned that contract. These guys are now doing the same thing. So wholeheartedly agree that, you know, there was one play with Garza where Jalen, Jalen was on the left side left slot and he's doing his thing, right. Going one on one. Ball gets poked away. Jalen picks it up and that we've seen what happens next. Right. He goes at it again and sometimes he scores, sometimes he does. But it's. This was going to be a pure ISO Jalen possession, except Jalen went and got the ball. Garza's coming up the left side of the lane and he's pointing to Derrick White just to like, hey, reverse it. And so Jalen, playing fast, swings it over to D. White as Derek is catching the ball. Garza is there to set the pick. And you can hear on the broadcast, the, the Grizzlies teammates. I don't remember who it was. You can hear him being like left, left, left, left, calling out the pick. And when Derek's defender turns around he was surprised be like oh like I, I was expecting the, you know, a pick to be coming. I didn't expect Garza to be in my face.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

So when, when Scal talks about like the timing was. And you just mentioned too the timing and, and everything like that was. That was good uptempo basketball in the half court where Jalen made a move, didn't work. Swing it then the pick is right there. You're wasn't. Derek gets the ball. Come on up set the pick. You know, very regimented. That was just in the flow. And then Garza rolled like you mentioned pick and pop guy that actually he was rolling.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

Garza rolls now. Now this one defender is shocked, doesn't know what he's doing. He's on Derek's hip already. Derek is in complete control of this possession with Garza rolling. Guys aren't sure which way they're going. They haven't communicated that yet. And Derek just pulls up for an easy midi and, and drains it because he knows that he, he can kind of do whatever he wants. And Garza is just pulling the defense away. That kind of stuff. Chef's kiss. Beautiful. And I know it's against the G League Memphis, you know, remnants of who they played. So not going overboard with the, the results. But that play especially was like hey, wow, we didn't get too much ISO from Jaylen. We got a nice swing. We got great timing on the pick. We got a great read. That was. That type of stuff is what you're looking for when you talk about Celtics offense and playing fast and playing with tempo like okay, can anything carry over? Yes. That kind of timing, that kind of mentality is what you're looking for.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Like Grizzlies G league team like 100. So like tap the brakes. But I don't think we need to slam on them when it, you know, when it comes to this stuff. Right.

[John Corcoran]

It's like doesn't negate everything.

[Tom Westerholm]

It doesn't negate everything. It doesn't negate the fact that like, like Garza looked really good. Like it doesn't. That these guys played really. That they did like Missoula said after the game, like they did, you know, 34 minutes of up tempo basketball. Like that's, that's a positive. There was, you know, there's so much good stuff there's I think, you know, just to close on your point about like, you know, the bigs playing in the system. It's if, if you're Luke Gagarza or you're Xavier Tillman, you can look at Luke Cornet as the perfect archetype for what you can do now. And like, I mean, if you're Luca Garza, you're right now you're on a two year, five million dollar contract, right? Look at Luke Cornette and be like, bro, if I, if I do this right, I could put like, Luke cornette just got four years, 40 million. Like, if I do this right, if I really buy in, like, what a great way to get, you know, guys who like, yeah, Luca Garza is probably not in your long term plans. But man, if that guy's good for two years, holy cow, that does you so much. What a great way to get guys to really buy in and try to be that guy for two years. Then just point directly at Luke Cornett and be like, this guy, you know, played for the Westchester Knicks and now he just got four years, 41 million because he bought in on our system and showed everybody what he could do as just a big, solid, big man. Like, you know, that's a great selling point.

[John Corcoran]

Absolutely. And to add to that, you know what that does long term for the Celtics? It makes agents say, yes, hey, my big man is sitting on this bench doing nothing. Get him to Boston because he's good and he can do this stuff. And now like, I don't want to go too crazy with this point, but this could be like the conveyor belt. This could be that, you know, that, that assembly line type of thing. Like, look what we did with Luke Cornett. Boom. Look what we did with Luca Garza. Look what we're doing with Xavier Tillman. Bring us your reclamation project, Biggs, and we'll just sign these guys to two three year contracts and just keep funneling them out. And those guys are cheap. That means you can spend your money elsewhere in the second apron era. That would be huge. So if Boston gets that reputation of bring us your bigs, we can rebuild all of them. Then that would be mutually beneficial. So love that, love that take. Let's continue this conversation. Anything to carry over. What are we carrying over against Toronto? What are we looking for against Toronto? I already told you a couple of things. But that's coming up when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by Prize Picks. Every day we make decisions, but on Prize Picks being right can make those decisions. Pay off. Don't miss the excitement of this football season with prize picks where it's good to be right. Playing prize picks is a lot of fun. It's a simple way to add more excitement to football. You just pick more or less on player projections like Josh Allen's passing, your passing yards, Drake Mays passing yards, Saquon Barkley touchdowns. You're in the game. So if you want to select, you can do their their stacks. They have this cool new thing called stacks. If you want to ride with a player, you can select passing yards, rushing yards, touchdowns. It's all in one lineup. It's also fun to follow other players in the app and copy their lineups with one click if you'd like to do that. So and don't worry about if somebody gets hurt. They have an injury reboot feature. If your player leaves early and doesn't come back, it doesn't count against you. So go ahead and download the prize picks app today. Use the code locked on NBA to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code locked on NBA. You have $50 in lineups after your first $5 lineup. Prize picks. It's good to be right. Thank you for making Locked on Celtics your first listen. Every day, go check out Locked on Fantasy basketball. Your draft is coming up. Josh Lloyd is going to have you covered. You better be listening to him when you're done with this show. Listen to lockdown Fantasy basketball. Go dominate your league with Josh Lloyd's information. Follow him anywhere you get this podcast. However you're listening. If you're watching. It's also on YouTube, so we're looking at the, you know, I, I really don't think there's much more to to say about the, the Grizzlies game. I, I am impressed. Like I said yesterday with, you know, Josh Minot, I want to see what, you know, how that, you know, carries over. I was watching, you know, in, in my re watch. I like re watch and then go back. I'm like, let me just look at my knots possessions. I'm like, he, he navigates screens well. Not quite a Drew Holiday level, but navigated the screens well, switched well, was boxing out even when the rebounds weren't coming his way because rebounding was a problem, but he was there boxing out.

[Tom Westerholm]

Missoula said that, you know, it's, it's not, it's, you know, he doesn't want to like focus on that.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, that storyline. Let's watch that storyline, huh?

[Tom Westerholm]

Talking about that One. It's just, you know, it' always important.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, it's always important. You know, who cares if you only got 66 of your defensive rebounds? Squash that storyline. It's always important. So. But I, I thought Minot was solid when he needed to be solid and impactful when the opportunity presented itself.

[Tom Westerholm]

There's a slightly smart, like, quality to him. Like a poor man smart, like, quality of just kind of like, making things happen sometimes.

[John Corcoran]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is cool.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's like, I love guys like that where it's just kind of like, I mean, also a smart, like, quality to him going 4 for 9 because he missed all five of his threes. But smart, like, quality of him just kind of being like, just, just doing stuff, you know, like, I'm gonna go knock this ball free. I'm gonna go grab this rebound over, like, you know, go way out of my way to go get this rebound. I love that. Especially at his height and athleticism. That's, that's an interesting player. I'm excited to watch him.

[John Corcoran]

I'm very, I'm. There's a reason why I wrote about him first. I'm so fascinated by what he can be. So the carryover stuff, it's the stuff we talked about. The, it's, it's more decision making. Like, okay, is Jalen gonna. I don't know if he's gonna play or not. Yeah, but he's gonna shoot, like, the way he did. Who cares? Who cares? I don't care. Right? Like, I don't care if Derek White's gonna shoot well or not. Like, we know that they're going to, like, they're gonna be who they are, so who cares? So they feasted on the back half of the Grizzlies roster. It's the decision making. It's the timing. Can you build on that kind of stuff and what to watch for? Well, they, Peyton Pritchard didn't play. Anthony Simons didn't play. Namish, Kada didn't play. Can Kanimi and Simons have the same and, you know, Mimi and Pritchard and Pritchard and can they have the same kind of, you know, chemistry, timing, all of that stuff? So kind of thank you, Joe, for not playing those guys. Because now the what to watch for is. Hey, those three guys who didn't play, can they do some of the same things?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I'm, I'm trying to think of the way to say this without being mean. I'm, like, not that excited to watch Cato, like, Like, I don't know. Like. All right, here's. Here's Neemi. I don't know. I. I don't know. I enjoyed watching Garza. I want to watch some more good screens.

[John Corcoran]

I don't know.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, yeah, but Untilman too.

[John Corcoran]

Well, right, but like, let's. I mean, can. Can Mimi do it? It's almost like. I don't want to say pressure's on, but like, everybody's kind of having a ball, talking about, like, who Garza and all that stuff. And I'm, you know, throwing Tillman in there. Like these screens, the timing, the pace. Okay. Neemi. Yeah, he. He's. He's also the seven footer and he doesn't move quite the same way. He's not quite as fluid. So.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, no, and it's interesting, right, because I think the thing with Tillman and Garza is that what they showed on Wednesday was that they are. That they can play a really professional style of basketball. And it's important for Keda now because Keda has always been this, like, flashes guy, right? He shows you, like, little flashes of like, whoa, whoa. That is something that only Keda can do, right?

[John Corcoran]

Sure.

[Tom Westerholm]

And so now what you need to see from him is, is that he can also contribute on that professional level. Right? That, like, okay, Derek didn't quite get free enough on that screen. So I'm going to re. Screen and this is going to be the one that frees him. And I know that because I'm a professional and I, And I, I can. And I know how to time my screens and how to set my screens. Kaden needs to be able to, like, do that kind of stuff or at very least contribute as much as that does. Right? Because the important thing is that you help Derek and Jalen excel, like, as a big man. That is what your job is to help Anthony Simons excel, help Payton Pritchard excel. Like, that's what you have to do. So Kaden needs to be able to do that. And I think that's going to be the thing that I'm watching with him is like, okay, these other guys have shown like they're not. They're not perfect either, right? Like, they're not. None of these guys are perfect bigs, but, like, they have shown that they can do this at a really professional level and Kate has got to be able to do that too, because, yeah, this team is trying to be competitive this year. This is not an AJ Dibenza team. This is a team that is trying to be competitive. And you've and you've got these pros in there who are there to help the stars, so you've got to also help the stars.

[John Corcoran]

I just get this feeling that Keda is going to be not quite as fluid on the offensive end, but all of a sudden, like on the defensive end, you'd be like, oh, well, he's blocked four shots.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, that's definitely possible. Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

You know, I think, I think what we're going to see is him and.

[Tom Westerholm]

Him and Ugo are going to combine for 10 in a game.

[John Corcoran]

I can see myself saying on Friday night, like, man, it'd be great if you could like fuse Luca and Keita together.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

And get like, that would be your center. Yeah, that. Which is probably how it's gonna go. And yeah, I think, I think what we're gonna end up seeing is Joe Missoula with situational, you know, lineups. And, and maybe that's part of, part of why he did it in like these pieces where, okay, here's our chance to get all this film on, you know, Tillman and Luca and Boucher. And now, now we're gonna get all this film on Neemi and, you know, go from there. So that's, that's gonna be the big thing. Obviously, Anthony Simons, like, what, what is he, what is he defensively? Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like, I'm really, I'm interested in that. I'm with him. I'm also interested in, I'm interested to see how the up tempo stuff works with him because, like, he is, he's a really, I mean, you know, high level, kind of like, like ball handler, kind of like shifty guy. He can, he can really do some good stuff out of like picking roles and all that kind of thing. Like, I mean, I'm interested to see like, is he gonna get out too? Because if he gets out, I mean, that's a real weapon. Like, that's. If, like you want to talk about buy in. If Anfredy Simons buys into this system, I think, I think he's a really dangerous, really good player. I'm.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, you are driving the Simons hype thing. You are. You are. Yeah. Okay, here's.

[Tom Westerholm]

All right. The one caveat that I will put on it is that it requires the buy in and I think that's across the board. Right? That is, that's Keda. That's everybody. It requires, like, I, I think if Simon's. I think that Joe Missoula is really good at motivating players and I think he's really good at Getting that level of buy in. If he gets that level of buy in from Anthony Simons, I think Simons is going to have a big year because I think Simons is a good player who has the potential. If he plays really hard on defense, gets out in transition, all of, you know, like plays fast. If he does all that stuff, he's got the talent to be really, really good in this system. So I, I really, I think it just comes down to buying, right? That's, it's really what it is with them.

[John Corcoran]

So it's just like he said, I gotta, I just gotta want to do it.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, dude, you really do.

[John Corcoran]

Like, you gotta want to do it.

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm just an optimist, I guess. I'm like, I think he wants to. I don't know.

[John Corcoran]

We'll. You, you own all the Anthony Simon stock for sure. Like I should. I, you know, I own all the, the Minot stock. And so maybe we can like sell each other some of the, you know.

[Tom Westerholm]

Take some Minot stock. If you're, if you're offering, I'll take some.

[John Corcoran]

So we'll see. We'll see. Those are a couple of things to watch against tomorrow. We'll see what the lineups are and all that stuff, you know, should be fun. All right. When we come back, GM survey time. And why do gms hate the Celtics? And why don't they know what position people play? That's coming up next. Today's show was brought to you by fanduel. Fanduel's got a great offer, maybe the best offer we've seen from FanDuel here. If you are a new customer, you bet five bucks. You get 300 in bonus bets if you win. So it's very simple. Pick a bet, put down five bucks, make it a good one. Make it the easiest possible one you can think of. If it hits, you'll unlock $300 in bonus bets to use across the app. Like maybe picking the Toronto Blue Jays to beat the New York Yankees in the division series. That would have gotten you 300 in bonus bets. So once you do that, once you get that, you can turn around and build parlays. Try player props. You can even follow live lines during games. It's always fun to kind of follow the live line and see like, oh, the Celtics are up 10. What's the Liveline say? You know, it went from Celtics three and a half point favorites to six and a half point favorites. And maybe you want to bet on that or maybe you want to wait so you can do whatever you want there on FanDuel. Whether you're a casual fan or if you love diving into stats, FanDuel makes the game day experience so much better. When you sign [e-mail] they'll give you the option to set your budget. Set your limit. Take that option. Opt in in set your budget so you can gamble responsibly and only bet what you can afford to lose. This way, if you hit a cold streak, you're still okay. So go to FanDuel.com Download the FanDuel app today and get started. Today's show is also brought to you by Quo Used to know Quo as Open Phone and it's one of the tools that helps you make a huge difference for business owners. Now it's the same great business phone system that you've heard me talk about before. It's just got the new name, but it matters because every missed call is money left on the table. If you've got a small business, you know that every customer conversation counts. You need a phone system that keeps you connected 247 quo is the number one business phone system streamlines customer communications. It works right through an app on your phone or on your computer so you don't have to carry around two phones. You don't have to rely on a landline. Quo, again formerly known as Open Phone, lets your whole team share one number and collaborate on calls and texts like a shared inbox so no customer gets left hanging. There's a built in AI agent that can answer after hours calls for you. That's a game changer. Captures leads, keeps the business moving even when you are off the clock. You can rest easy knowing that Quo has you covered. See why over 90,000 businesses trust quo formerly open phone. Get started free and get started for free and get 20 off your first six months at quo.comlockdown MBA that's Q U O.com locked on NBA if you've got existing numbers with another service, Quo will port them over at no extra charge. Quo no missed calls. Don't miss customers. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Go check out Lockdown NBA game night. There's a bunch of preseason games going on. You can go check out all of those recaps in depth at lockdown NBA game night and then of course lockdown NBA has you covered. With the big stories in the NBA like LeBron James missing a few weeks with sciatica. That's a very old man thing to be missing time for. I. I don't Know, Tom, you're not old enough with sciatica stuff, are you?

[Tom Westerholm]

That's, I mean, I don't know. I, I'm a lot. Actually significantly younger than LeBron. No, I don't have sciatica.

[John Corcoran]

No. Yeah, that's an old man thing. That's like, if you're, if you're missing time because of sciatica, like, it happens to a lot of people. But like, that's, yeah, that, that's a, that's a. You're 40, buddy. What are you doing still trying this stuff.

[Tom Westerholm]

Hugo is not.

[John Corcoran]

Worried about sciatica. He's worried about, like, God, considering the size of his hands, he's worried about like a.

[Tom Westerholm]

That was, that was one of the. I, I, I, I, I don't post much anymore, but that one even elicited a post for me from me. I was like, that. That is insane.

[John Corcoran]

Are you kidding me?

[Tom Westerholm]

Are you like, are you, I mean, listen, you covered Taco. You shook that man's hand.

[John Corcoran]

I did.

[Tom Westerholm]

How could, how could. Hugo's hands.

[John Corcoran]

No.

[Tom Westerholm]

Almost as big as tacos.

[John Corcoran]

I have decent sized hands. I have good size hands. I'm six five. I've got, I've got the requisite mitts to go for. I could palm a basketball. And Taco's hand was like, oh, God, man, what the hell happened over here? It, I, I haven't shaken, but I'm going to. Yeah, I'm gonna do like that thing. Can I see? I want to see what Hugo's got. Like, what is that? That's crazy.

[Tom Westerholm]

Wild. Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

So, yeah, anyway, GM survey, they don't give a damn about the biggest hands. So, so not a lot about the Celtics. Not, not unexpected. Right. Because you're talking about MVPs.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

Starting a franchise with somebody, even if people were like, I would have with Tatum, he's dealing with the Achilles injury. So nobody's going to sit there and be like, yeah, I want to start my franchise with a guy coming off the Achilles injury Right. When Victor Wimanyama exists. So, yeah, so I didn't expect a whole lot. I mean, I didn't talk about the coaching, but Joe Missoula isn't mentioned, like, anywhere except for the coach with the best defensive, like, the best defense. Everybody talks about Joe with the offense. He's not in there. As far as offense, who is the best head coach in the NBA? Spo with 52%. Okay. I love Spo. He's, he's, you know, nice enough and he's, he's a great coach. What is what has Miami done recently? Honestly, like, what has Miami done recently for him to be like past Mark Degno, you know? Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, how did, how did Dagnall not get like, he's at 34 past Rick Carlisle?

[Tom Westerholm]

Like, I'm sorry, Rick Carlisle's been.

[John Corcoran]

Carlisle was also receiving votes.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's crazy. Rick Carlisle has been awesome.

[John Corcoran]

The whole thing with the Pacers is like, wow, they're getting so much out of that team that screams coaching. And like, that's the whole thing. That's the whole ethos with spo. He gets so much out of these guys. You know, you give them a two way player and that guy becomes like a borderline all star. But what are the Pacers doing?

[Tom Westerholm]

The team that made the finals? Can we.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, come on. What are we doing? But no, no. Missoula.

[Tom Westerholm]

Once again, we've devolved into locked on Pacers.

[John Corcoran]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I've even got the yellow. I got the yellow and the blue. I'm wearing the team colors.

[Tom Westerholm]

You are?

[John Corcoran]

Oh, man.

[Tom Westerholm]

But he did get the best Indiana over there.

[John Corcoran]

He did get the best offense. So which head coach runs the best offense? No mention. Not even. Also receiving votes for Missoula, but he did tie for fourth in best defensive schemes, which is interesting.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

Okay, so the thing that we really wanted to mention as we're running out of time, they ranked the east and Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, and then Boston. What? I mean, you. I don't know how anybody has any faith in Philly. Okay. How can you have any faith in Philadelphia? I. I even get the others right. Cleveland, New York, obviously, Orlando, Detroit, on the come up. Sure. Milwaukee has Giannis still. I.

[Tom Westerholm]

People have more faith in Atlanta than I do. I mean, I, I like Atlanta's team.

[John Corcoran]

But like, yeah, they're getting a lot. They're. I'm. Obviously.

[Tom Westerholm]

We'll see. I'm ready to be proven wrong by Trey Young for the first time in my life.

[John Corcoran]

No, I'm not. I'm not. I don't think it's happening.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't think, man, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.

[John Corcoran]

Cleveland, New York. Yeah, I, I can see Orlando or Detroit rising up to a 3C. I can totally see that 3, 4, some more in that now. Boston and 8th. I don't know when they do this, but people are really down. I mean, that's. Look, I've. I've even taken some heat in the YouTube comments about like, whoa, where's your faith? Like, my job is not to have faith. But eighth. No, no, no, no, no, no. They're above Philly. And I'm not buying Milwaukee.

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm not buying Milwaukee either. No, I'm. Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

I don't know, man. Like, that seems messy over there. I'm not buying it. I'm just.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

So I, and, and we're on the same page about Atlanta. Like, I, I just think, look, there are Atlanta believers out there in the basketball sphere for sure. I am not one of them. And I'm, I am ready for them to be a playing team again and for next summer to be. The next summer will be. Everybody's lining up to trade for Giannis, and Trey Young's gonna be like, I'm also requesting a trade. And he's being like, yeah, we don't care. We're going for Giannis, and then we'll get around to you maybe later. And like, like, Trey's gonna be like, here are my preferred teams. And his preferred teams gonna be like, did we, did we talk about this? Did we. I mean, flattered, totally flattered, but, like, it's the. I'm sorry. I have, I have a girlfriend. I'm sorry.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right, Right.

[John Corcoran]

You know, I'm married, so. I'm sorry.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I. Atlanta's a weird one to be mad. I could, like. Yeah. I mean, I hope, I hope that these people who have. Were picking them are not factoring in a full season of Kristaps Porzingis, because I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I don't think that's happening. That seems unlikely.

[John Corcoran]

Very unlikely.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corcoran]

Look, they've made some nice moves and they've got some nice players. I just, I. As long as Trey is at the head of that snake, I don't, I just don't buy it. I just don't buy it. Yeah, the other thing. And just this is just another, like, little bit of a rant. So they go by each individual position. Who's the best point guard? Okay. Shay, Gilders. Alexander. Who's the best shooting guard? Anthony Edwards. Who. Who's the best small force. So do you can't get the straight answer. No one knows. So who's the best point guard? Shea. Number two, Luka Doncic. Who's the best shooting guard? Anthony Edwards. Number two, Donovan Mitchell. Number three, Luca Doncic. Who's the best small forward in the NBA? Number one, Luka Doncic. How many minutes has Luca played at small forward? Like, ever? Ever?

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, I, I, I, I wish, I wish I had time to look it up.

[John Corcoran]

Well, yeah, I. I'll tell you who looked it up. We know who looked it up. On Dan Greenberg looked it up. Stool Greenie. And like, last year, it was like, 12% of the time when he joined the Lakers, it was like 6% of the time when he was in Dallas. And then it was like, three or four straight years of zero percent at small forward, there's nothing that screams, hey, intern, fill this out for me. Quite like, oh, yeah. Luka Doncic is a small four man. He's like, come on.

[Tom Westerholm]

No.

[John Corcoran]

No. Gm, whose job it is to look at the round at the league would say, I'm getting Luca to be my small forward. He's a point guard. He's your point guard.

[Tom Westerholm]

Even if he was a small forward, he's not better than Tatum. Sorry.

[John Corcoran]

But also.

[Tom Westerholm]

Also, there's that, too.

[John Corcoran]

There's also that. Yeah, but like, Tatum. So Tatum was second at 20. I consider that basically, Tatum is the best small forward in the NBA. Yeah, like, that's. That's where we are with this. So Congratulations, Jason Tatum. 40 of the vote is invalid. That's it. Last year, he got it at 47, and Jalen Brown got a vote like, okay. Like, Jalen. Okay, whatever. At least Jalen. No, I. I get it. I get it. Because they were starting Derek and. And Drew. Yeah. So. No, that's fine. That is fine. That is fine. That is fine. GM survey is always fun because people make it like, oh, my God. Like, oh, there's all these GMs. That's what they think you're like.

[Tom Westerholm]

I promise you, they don't. They know more about basketball than we do. I promise you they don't think this dumb thing.

[John Corcoran]

Yes. Yeah. Of the 30 gms, how many actually fill this thing out? 3, 4. What's the old. Under 4.5.

[Tom Westerholm]

There's no way Brad fills this out.

[John Corcoran]

Do they? Yeah. You think they get this? Like, no. No disrespect intended, because I love the idea, but I don't think John Schumann is sending this out around to these GMs. And people are like, well, I got to respond to John Schumann because they know. Like, they who? Like, it's like me saying, like, no one would give a damn if I sent them this survey. Like, I hear you go, whatever. Like, no, no. So I don't know. Maybe. Maybe I'm low. 4. 4, maybe 2.5. I don't know. How many GMs actually fill this thing out?

[Tom Westerholm]

You know, I gotta.

[John Corcoran]

I gotta ask around. Gonna ask around.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's the investigative story we need.

[John Corcoran]

That's the journalism we need to know. How many of you guys, how many of you guys actually fill this out? They'd be like, what? Oh, yeah, no, we. You play rock, paper scissors and the loser fills it out. All right. Okay. So basketball again Friday night, Toronto. Gonna be fun.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, Tom, we're back at it, man. Feels good.

[John Corcoran]

Talking hoops. Just talking hoops. Love it. All right, Tom, thank you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate you, man.

[John Corcoran]

I always appreciate Tom Westerholm, everybody, again. Find his [e-mail] post game takeaways there. And I appreciate you listening, watching, being here with me, being in every day or Monday through Friday, Monday through Saturday. This time around, I will do a post game podcast after the Raptors game to whatever. We'll see what, what comes out of that. It's fun. It'll be fun. So happy to talk basketball again. Make sure you're subscribed wherever you get your podcast. If you're new, welcome aboard. Watch the show on YouTube, get into the comments section, share your thoughts with me, with everybody else, and then share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Solving podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.

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