What Happens If Neemias Queta Is OUT? | What is Jaylen Brown TALKING about?

Summary

Locked On Celtics – November 25, 2025

Episode Theme Overview

This episode, hosted by John Karalis with regular guest Tom Westerholm, discusses two primary topics: the implications for the Boston Celtics if backup center Neemias Queta misses time due to injury, and dissecting Jaylen Brown's recent comments about team focus and his relationship with Tracy McGrady, which influenced his decision to stay in Boston. The tone is a mix of candid basketball analysis and lighthearted banter, with in-depth context for Celtics fans.

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1. Neemias Queta’s Injury: Who Steps Up?

[04:28–13:00]

Current Situation and Concerns

• Neemias Queta left the last game in the first quarter with a sprained ankle and did not return. His status for upcoming games, including against the Detroit Pistons, is uncertain ([04:28]).
• The Celtics’ lack of size could be a major issue during an upcoming stretch against physical teams like Detroit, Minnesota, Cleveland, and New York.

"If they do not have him for the Pistons, that would be a big problem."
—John Karalis ([04:45])

Possible Strategic Responses

• Punting on the Pistons Game:
  Tom suggests it might be wiser to rest Queta even if it costs the Pistons game—taking a “giveaway” loss in a tough schedule ([05:21]).

• No Good Center Replacement:
  Options like Xavier Tillman for size and strength are mentioned, but Chris Boucher is ruled out as ineffective, especially against Detroit ([08:05]).

  • “You put [Boucher] out there against Detroit... that would be a punishment if he violated a team rule.” —John Karalis ([08:14])

• Going Small and Fast:
  The duo floats radical small-ball: starting shooters like Hauser, leaning into high-variance offense, and maximizing speed. The idea is to “zag” while opponents “zig” with size. Heavy doses of Minott and Walsh for defense, prioritize transition play, and hope exceptional three-point shooting swings a game ([09:02–11:44]).

“We can’t match up against you, but maybe you can’t match up against us... We’re just gonna go super fast, super small... and hope.”
—John Karalis ([09:43])

• Basketball “Rope-a-Dope” Analogy:
  John likens the approach to Muhammad Ali’s strategy against George Foreman—outmaneuver power with agility ([10:53]).

• With or Without Queta:
  Even if Queta plays, both agree the Celtics might still benefit from staying unconventional, though at least he provides some rim protection and rebounding ([11:44–12:21]).

“A completely zigless team.”
—Tom Westerholm ([12:27])

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2. Jaylen Brown’s Comments: Puzzling Accountability and ‘Loss-ish’ Wins

[13:00–30:54]

The “Loss-ish” Magic Game

• Celtics beat Orlando but nearly blew a 21-point lead, leading some fans and media to call it a “loss-ish” win ([13:01], [18:38]).
• Tom pushes back, emphasizing that winning ugly games against tough competition still counts, especially during a brutal schedule stretch ([16:09]).

“You take a win if you can get it, and it doesn’t matter how you get it... Fluky stuff happens in the NBA.”
—Tom Westerholm ([16:09])

Jaylen’s Postgame Quotes Under the Microscope

• Calling Out Team Focus:
  Jaylen called on the Celtics to “maintain humility,” noting: “when we get up, sometimes we veer and try to get into our own thought process... that’s how you open the door for a team to come back” ([18:38]).
• Does the Film Support His Critique?
  John says he rewatched the decisive third quarter and couldn’t find evidence of stars playing selfishly or freelancing, suspects Jalen’s comments may be based on patterns from other games, not this one specifically ([19:23–20:09]).
• Media Challenge:
  Tom suggests players sometimes resort to stock answers under pressure, reaching for generalizations rather than specifics—sometimes to avoid disrespecting opponents ([20:09–21:21]).

“The truth of what happened was kind of random. It was just kind of random NBA-ness.”
—Tom Westerholm ([21:01])

Notable Exchange About NBA-Level Talent

“You have to be one of the best basketball players in the world to be the worst player in the NBA.”
—John Karalis ([21:21])

“Excuses” vs. “Explanations”

• John defends players’ efforts to explain losses or bad stretches, pushing back on the media/fan tendency to label explanations as excuses ([22:23–24:37]).

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3. Jaylen vs. the Officials: The Fallout

[23:23–24:37]

• Jalen believes he gets an unfair whistle this year, having openly criticized refs, including on his Twitch stream ([23:23]).
• John speculates the league’s lack of a fine may have provoked referees to police Jalen more harshly, impacting recent game officiating ([24:37]).

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4. The Impact of Tracy McGrady on Jaylen Brown’s Career

[30:54–36:30]

• Jaylen’s Twitch Revelation:
  Jaylen admitted he was ready to leave Boston over years of trade rumors, but TMac advised him to stay and build his legacy ([31:36]).

“I thought [TMac] was going to say go... and instead he told me to stay. That’s basically why I’ve stayed for as long as I’ve stayed.”
—John Karalis ([31:36])

• The hosts reflect on NBA stars’ legacies: staying in one city leads to deeper local respect and significance than being a “mercenary” (as with Kevin Durant or James Harden) ([33:22–36:30]).

"If you can stay in one place for a long time... you come out with this legacy that really means something."
—Tom Westerholm ([35:13])

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5. Trade Rumor Frustration and Booing Myths

[36:30–45:21]

• Jalen’s Trade Rumor Fatigue:
  The hosts clarify that frequent rumors weren’t usually due to Boston actively shopping Jalen, but from other teams naming him in major star trade scenarios ([37:49]).
• Rumor Mechanics:
  “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire” doesn’t apply to most NBA trade rumors—much of it is agent or rival GM-generated noise, not team intent ([39:33]).

Booing on Draft Night – Myth Dispelled

• John addresses a key moment in Jalen’s Celtics tenure: fans booed after not picking Chris Dunn (perceived as a precursor to a Jimmy Butler trade), not out of dislike for Jalen ([43:00–44:52]).

“The fans did not boo, specifically, Jalen Brown. We don't like that pick. Boo. They were booing, ‘we wanted Jimmy Butler.’"
—John Karalis ([44:27])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• John on Boston’s Lack of Center Options:
  “You put [Boucher] out there against Detroit... that would be a punishment...” ([08:14])
• Game Plan Extremes:
  “We are just gonna go super fast, super small... maybe you can’t match up against us.” ([09:43])
• Jaylen Brown’s Perception of Officiating:
  “Jalen is pretty convinced... nothing is going his way, according to the officials.” —Tom Westerholm ([23:23])
• On NBA Player Talent:
  “You have to be one of the best basketball players in the world to be the worst player in the NBA.” —John ([21:21])
• Legacy vs. Mercenary Path:
  “Where is KD gonna be able to match Jalen Brown's sense of purpose and fulfillment?” —Tom ([35:30])
• Draft Night Booing Clarification:
  “I wholeheartedly believe... the fans did not boo specifically Jalen Brown... They were booing we wanted Jimmy Butler…” —John ([44:27])

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Key Timestamps

• 04:28: Queta injury recap and Boston’s center outlook
• 08:05: Who can fill the center role? Tillman, Boucher, Garza?
• 09:02–11:44: Small-ball, shooting-focused game plans discussed
• 13:00–18:38: Orlando’s “loss-ish” win and fan/media perceptions
• 18:38–22:17: Jaylen Brown’s comments and the validity behind them
• 23:23–24:37: Jaylen’s relationship with referees and fallout from previous criticism
• 30:54: Jaylen’s relationship with Tracy McGrady and decision to stay in Boston
• 36:30–41:43: Legacy, trade rumors, and the messiness of NBA media reporting
• 44:27: Draft night booing myth explained

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Conclusion

This episode gives deep insight into how the Celtics handle injuries in the frontcourt, thoughtful breakdowns of player psychology and locker room dynamics, and meaningful reflection on the power of legacy for NBA stars. The hosts engage in thorough, fan-centered analysis, debunking myths and offering behind-the-scenes perspectives that help fans interpret both on-court and off-court developments.

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"Celtics legend Jalen Brown... your number goes up, and it's probably already going up, but—there are no questions."
—John Karalis ([37:11])

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Perfect for Celtics diehards seeking smart basketball talk, inside stories, and the context behind the news of the day.

Transcript

[John Corrales]

Foreign. Every day.

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[John Corrales]

Inspires what happens if Nami Ishkeda misses an extended period of time with his injury? We'll look at that and I don't know what the heck Jaylen Brown was talking about after beating the Orlando Magic. That's right. Now on the Locked On Celtics podcast.

[Tom Westerholm]

Huh?

[John Corrales]

Yep.

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Be ever ready. It's the seas who else could it be? What they gonna say now screaming like J.T. coralis we kept the madness every game, every practice prime time Depp and D White on the sideline Renin J's how we started raising banners how we finish locked on Celtics pod home of the winners.

[John Corrales]

Welcome back to the Locked Celtics podcast right here on the Lockdown podcast network. Where does your team every day your team is the Boston Celtics and I talk about them Monday through Friday plus bonus podcasts when they play on the weekends. So make sure you're subscribed to this show. It's. It's available everywhere. It's free, it's on YouTube. So you get into the comments section and share your thoughts with your fellow Celtics fans every dayers, the people joining me every Monday through Friday. And me, John Corrales, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal, doing this job for 20 years now. Ten years on this podcast, plus two books about the Celtics. Today's show is brought to you by Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use the code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Later on, some revealing comments from Jaylen Brown and his relationship with Tracy McGrady and why that helped him stay in Boston. Thought that was interesting. We'll stick with Jaylen Brown. That's a second segment as well where Jalen said something after the game about losing the lead that I just can't figure out. We're going to start with Nami Esqueda. We're going to try and figure out what is going on if he misses time. And when I say we, I of course mean me and Tom Westerholm.

[Tom Westerholm]

Let's go.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, baby. Okay. Tom, how you doing, man?

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm good, man. How are you?

[John Corrales]

I am two thumbs up. Great.

[Tom Westerholm]

Heck yeah.

[John Corrales]

Namish Keda, not so much. Sprained ankle, left the game, first quarter, six minutes and never came back. Never appeared back on the bench. Don't know what his status is. Celtics weren't required to put out an injury report today.

[Tom Westerholm]

Tuesday.

[John Corrales]

Wait, no. Monday. This is the Tuesday show. So right now we don't know if he's going to play, if he's. Whatever. So considering that it's the Detroit Pistons coming up next, and I mentioned this on yesterday's show. Look, I know I've been critical of Kada for, you know, for a while. I, I think I'm fair in, in my assessments of him. I can also say that if they do not have him for the Pistons, that would be a big problem. What if he misses that game and Extended time, Tom. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. That's a rough one. I mean, you know, it. It's. I think the. What one thing is like, okay, if. Depending on how healthy he is, if. It's like, he would really be pushing it, but, like, you know, like to play against the Pistons. But he might be okay if you let him rest a little bit. Maybe you just punt the Pistons game.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, right.

[Tom Westerholm]

Because, like, just. All right, GG's, we. We got a freebie against the Magic. That's great. Yeah, we'll give away a freebie against the Pistons and we move from there. Like, I. I could for sure see that line of thinking. But, yeah, I mean, it's. Without him, that's. It's crazy that that's where the Celtic season is. But yeah, without Keda against the Pistons. Could get ugly. Could be. Could be real tough.

[John Corrales]

Listen, it could get ugly with Keita.

[Tom Westerholm]

It could. They're good.

[John Corrales]

Pistons are really good.

[Tom Westerholm]

Watch Michigan rise, man. Let's go.

[John Corrales]

They're really. They're strong, physical. They. They. Even if K played, he can't play 48 minutes. And. And he's just. He's been great this season, but the Pistons have had, you know, they. They beat the Celtics up when he played, you know, against him before. So. Listen, it is what it is. But with Detroit, big, physical team, Minnesota, notably a tall team. The Cavs, a team with also tall players. This is a stretch where having your tallest person out, if he misses any extended time. This was already going to be a tough stretch without Keda. I think you're starting to, like, not even. I don't want to say not have a chance because anything could happen. Right. This is. This could also be a classic. Oh, we get to take it easy against the Celtics. The Celtics shoot 50 from three and they steal one of these games. Totally possible. Yeah. But the conventional wisdom, if they don't have the Keda and you have to go with one of the other options, Detroit, Minnesota, Cleveland, New York. That could be a really, really rough stretch. But the question becomes, who do they go to? And I don't know. First of all, there's no good answer. It just might depend on who you know which. Which team. You know, Xavier, Tillman, you know, against Detroit, you need size, you need bulk, you need some strength.

[Tom Westerholm]

You can't. Chris Boucher is not doing it, period. Apparently. But Chris Boucher is also just especially not doing it against Detroit.

[John Corrales]

I thought Chris Boucher was so bad in that third quarter especially. He did not look good. He can't go out there you put him out there against Detroit, you're just, you're. That's almost like that would be a punishment if he violated a team rule. You put him out there against Detroit and be like, you're, you're playing, you're playing the whole first half. So that's your punishment. You don't have many options. I think, I think you have to go with Tillman and his strength, his size, Garza. But he's, you gotta just be like, use your strength. He's, he's a, he's a big dude, you know, strong. He's not that athletic, but he's strong. You know, you gotta just have him like, look, go hit somebody.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And I think the other thing you got to do, I would consider starting Hauser again and just try to bomb him out. Like, just, just, just shift. I don't know, like, you know. Yeah. Simons, Pritchard, Hauser. I want you to take 35 shots a piece. Like, just like, just gun, right? Because like, you're not winning, you know, like, like you're not winning the margins in this game. You know what I mean? Your, your chances to take like, you know, go a little flashback to last season's team, take way more three pointers than the other team, hope 34 of them go in and hope that's enough. Like, yeah, you know, like that's how I would, I would probably handle it. We'll see what Joe thinks.

[John Corrales]

But no, that, that, that is, I think, where I would settle. I think you get a heavy dose of Minot and Walsh for some, some defense and like, maybe you start, maybe you just start Minot. Maybe. Okay, we're, we're not, we're not going to try to combat your size with size because we don't have that. It's going to be, it's gonna be one of those. All right? We can't match up against you, but maybe you can't match up against us. And we are just gonna go super fast, super small and like it's Walsh and Minot together with Jalen, Peyton and Derek and you, you go with. Or, or maybe you, maybe it's, maybe it is Hauser in, in there and you try to shoot or you just are constantly keeping two or three shooters on the floor at all times, however it is and that, maybe that, maybe that does give Garza a few extra minutes because he can at least spread the floor. Yeah, maybe. I think the more I think about it, the more it might have to be. All right, you put backs and all that, so we're trying to rebound as best we can.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Box out. Maybe you can get a few over the back calls. Maybe you can frustrate them, but just try to get, you know, strip them and, you know, run and jump and. And try to force the turnovers. If they're going to beat you, they're going to beat you. But you. You can. They want to. They want to hit you. It's like, you know, Muhammad Ali versus George Foreman. And George. You know, they're the George Foreman that's just hitting you like breaking ribs. It's a very current reference. You young kids go Google that. Yes. But, you know, Muhammad Ali, with all his, you know, jukes and jives and all that stuff ends up winning the fight. Like, that's gonna have to be what it is. And I. I think. I think you hit on it. I think that's got to be the best. And, you know, even with Keita, I don't even know that. That I think you could play.

[Tom Westerholm]

You could play a little bit more normal with Keda, you know, like, I. I think you could still have a similar strategy, but at least with Keda, it's like, okay, like. Yeah, I mean, you know, there. Then there's bulk and height, and you.

[John Corrales]

Need that, but at least you get somebody to maybe challenge Cade Cunningham when he gets to the rim. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, exactly.

[John Corrales]

Maybe.

[Tom Westerholm]

And, you know, maybe you can get him to box out a little bit here and there. I mean, it's like, it's. Yeah, but. Yeah. Without him. Yeah, I think it's just. Okay. But fully in on zagging, you guys are gonna zig, and we are going to zag extremely hard and just hope.

[John Corrales]

That the zagging wins, because this is not gonna work.

[Tom Westerholm]

A completely zigless team.

[John Corrales]

That's going to be the headline. Ziglas Celtics hope zagging works.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes. I love that. I think that's all right.

[John Corrales]

That's the headline.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right. I think we've completed the pod.

[John Corrales]

Appreciate it.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's all right.

[John Corrales]

See you. Or maybe I could have done. I gotta get better at that. I'll watch some film. I'll get better at that. Celtics watched some film. Jalen. I don't know what he was watching.

[Tom Westerholm]

What?

[John Corrales]

He was.

[Tom Westerholm]

Something.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, he watched something. He's. He's been vocal. He's called out people, and he did it again after a win that, for a lot of people, kind of felt very lossish, which not having Kada played a role. We'll talk about that and we'll try to figure out what Jalen I want.

[Tom Westerholm]

To talk about the loss ish thing too, so.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we'll do that. We'll do it all when we come back. All right. Today's show is brought to you by Robin Hood. Nobody knows your money goals better than you. Robin Hood puts you in control of your money with tools that work as hard as you do, locking in on every opening, beating your pr, beating it again. Channel that drive into your money. Robinhood puts you in control of your money. Trade stocks and ETFs, options, futures and crypto all on one platform. You can now build and execute your own trades from a desktop with Robinhood Legends advanced tools or take advantage of the new Robinhood strategies with a tailored portfolio managed by a team of experts. You expect more from yourself. Expect more from your money. Get started [e-mail] yourmoney again, that's robinhood.com yourmoney your money, your move. Today's show is also brought to you by Drip Drop. When I'm hydrated, everything just works better. It feels better. Focus, energy, mood. Even my skin looks better. That's why I've been using Drip Drop. That's what I've got in my cup every day when I'm podcasting. It's doctor developed hydration that keeps me running at full power no matter what my day looks like. So whether it's after a workout or after my weekend in New Orleans at Jake Madison's wedding, coming back to three times the electrolytes and half the sugar of leading brands using science backed formula trusted by medical professionals, fighters and over 90% of top college and pro teams. That's what's doing it for me. Drip Drop is a great part of my daily routine. One packet in the morning gets me hydrated, gets me through the gym, gets me through that midday slump, and it tastes great. I use the sugarless one myself just because I'm trying to cut back. It's a personal thing, but all the flavors are great. I love the watermelon one. It's non negotiable hydration. You got to do it right now. Drip Drop is offering you the podcast listener 20 off your first order. Nice deal. Go to drip drop.com to use promo code locked on MBA. That's dripdrop.com promo code locked on NBA for 20 off. Stock up now before the heat hits hard. Keep your body and mind performing at their best with Drip Drop. Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day on the Locked On Podcast network, the number one sports podcasting network on the Planet got a lot of number ones here. This is locked on Celtics, the number one Celtics podcast around. So thank you all for making this show part of your daily routine. You every day is make this possible. So thank you so, so much for joining me every Monday through Friday. Remember, bonus podcast on the weekend, so make sure you're subscribed and it's a fun ride. Thank you for making. Making us part of it. All right, Tom, where do you want to start? You want to start with the loss Ish part?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I, I just. I. Because I just have a. That's. That's a dumb way to look at yesterday's game. You're. You're coming up on nine out of 10 games. Like, that's the start of nine out of 10 games against teams who are all either. Who are all ahead of you in the standings, whether that's in the Eastern or the Western Conference. You take a win if you can get it, and it doesn't matter how you get it. Like, I understand that it's like, oh, like that, you know, they came back okay. But like, weird stuff happens in the NBA.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Unless you're really worried that, like Jet Howard and Jace Richardson are like, better than the players on your team and not just like, fluky stuff happens. Because that's all it was. Fluky stuff happens. Yeah, yeah, sure. For sure. They need Keda out there. They need. They need a quality big man. But they know that they. They been well aware of that all season. You gotta win at the start of your 9 out of 10 tough games. You gotta beat the Wizards like you. You gotta beat the Wizards. Completely non negotiable, but any win you can pick up is a good thing. This is another stretch like that one at the beginning of the season where you and I were like, really hope they don't go 07.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

If you pick up a few here, it's like those are all. Obviously they're all wins, but those are real important standings. Quality wins if you get anything.

[John Corrales]

So if you take, if you take something out of it, you know, hopefully you learn. You learn lessons and you. And you pick up on things. And honestly, if Cato was out there for five minutes in the fourth quarter, some of those drives to the basket don't happen. And like, both teams are going without bigs, so the Celtics were driving and getting to the rim at will. The, the magic. We're getting to the rim at will. If anything highlights the importance of Kada, it's. It's that fourth quarter where the, the perimeter defense Wasn't always great, and guys get beat all the time, and you need somebody back there to at least be a deterrent. And he wasn't there. They didn't. They didn't go with anybody in that regard. So that, that definitely played into it. I agree with you. But when. When you lose a 21 point lead or something like that, and it comes down to needing late game execution, everybody comes out of it feeling bad. Right? That. But you're right. You gotta. You gotta take it for what it's worth. But Jalen had another. Like, he called out his team after the loss to Brooklyn, which was bad.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

Saying if you. If you're not gonna come, you know. Correct. Just don't come at all. Right. And in this one, he said, we gotta maintain that humility. It's hard to win in this league. Where is the one? He said, oh, 20 points is not really anything you can't get away from. What got us the lead, you got to keep playing the same brand of basketball. I feel like when we get up, sometimes we veer and try to get into our own thought process of what we need to do. And I feel like that's how you open the door for a team to come back. I said, okay, let me go see what Jalen was talking about. I went back and I watched the third quarter. It was a little bit more back and forth, but aside from Boucher, who was okay, Boucher was terrible in the third quarter. Was he the one trying to get onto his own? Like, I didn't see him. He wasn't in the great place, but he never had opportunity to go off on his own mentality or whatever. I didn't see, like, Jalen was the one that was doing all the scoring in the fourth quarter. Like, he was the one trying. I didn't see guys. I literally was just watching which one of these guys is going off script. And I didn't see it. Maybe he was talking about a different game because he said, sometimes I feel like when we get up, we. So maybe it wasn't that game. Maybe it's just a feeling that he's had over prior games. Yeah. But honestly, Tom, I don't. I don't know where that came from.

[Tom Westerholm]

I did. I. I think you're on to something when you say, like, it was from previous games. Because I do think it's like, I. I really do think it's like, okay, how do you. When reporters have microphones in your face and they're asking you, hey, what went wrong in that fourth quarter? The answer is we let a couple of players who have no business putting up 30 points in a game. Put up. You know, we let.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

At Howard, whose rookie contract was not picked up. You know, the option for his contract was not picked up. We let him score 18 points or whatever it was in the fourth quarter. Like, that's the answer. And. And, like, how do you say that without being super disrespectful to Jet Howard? And Jalen doesn't want to be disrespectful. Like, he's, you know, he's a professional. He's, you know, part of the players union. Like, he's not trying to. He's not trying to be disrespectful to anybody. So, like, at that point, you know, your mind kind of wander. This is. I'm just guessing, right? At that point, your mind kind of wanders, and you're like, all right, what's something that's been going wrong? I feel like sometimes. And then you get into something that might have been from a different game because, like, yeah. I mean, again, the truth of what happened was kind of random. It was just kind of random NBA ness that, you know. Yeah, a couple of.

[John Corrales]

You're right. You're 100, right. Two guys got comfortable and. And, like, they got their confidence so far. Like, Jet was making these moves. Like, he was dancing. Like, the guys on the broadcast me re watching it. I was like, they're like, what is going on here? He's like, you know, stopping, starting, boom. He looked like a superstar out there. Yeah. Which number one, it does tell you how good all of these players are, because all of these guys have that in them somewhere. I always tell everybody, you have to be one of the best basketball players in the world to be the worst player in the NBA. I hope people understand that you have to be incredible, amazing to not get burned in the league and just be on a team.

[Tom Westerholm]

To make it to the NBA. You have to be a sure thing to make it to the NBA. And then you might not make it to the NBA.

[John Corrales]

Like, it's like, yeah, so. But look, I think sometimes guy like Jalen is very much the I don't want to make excuses guy, but sometimes when you're like, it's not excuses. And no matter what you say, people are gonna be like, well, that's an excuse. Really. Like, I hate that. I hate that stop making excuses mentality. Because my job is to ask them to explain things. And if you're explaining things and you say, well, that's an excuse, it's not an excuse. Stop with that. You can't say that all the time. He's actually explaining why. We want to know why. So just like, you can easily say, like, well, we relaxed for a couple of minutes in the fourth quarter. These two guys got it going. And then after that, they had so much confidence that. And we didn't have Nemi. We didn't have a room protector. You know, we were getting called for all the files in the world. It's. It's hard to defend.

[Tom Westerholm]

Jalen is. Jalen is pretty convinced that this season he is. Nothing is going his way. According to the officials.

[John Corrales]

He's.

[Tom Westerholm]

He's brought it up so many times now.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, I have. Okay. Side note, and I'm blowing past my break here, but side note, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not saying that he's wrong. I think the worst thing that happened for Jalen might be. And I'm not saying this to any knowledge, he said a lot of stuff after whatever game that was where he really went off on the officials. Then he went on his twitch stream and started spewing like some conspiracy theory type stuff he did and the league didn't find him. And I bet. I bet that the officials were more pissed at the league not finding him and being like, well, if you're not going to have our back with him, we'll take it into our own hands. And I think there's some. And that's why Jalen was like, I'm gonna stop talking. And he's like, after the. The tech. And he was like, how many texts are. I had? 3. I'm. I'm. I'm done talking about it. I think that he understands. It's almost like an Illuminati thing. Like the.

[Tom Westerholm]

The.

[John Corrales]

What was the. The 30 Rock episode where it's like the. The black actors going against Tracy, everybody was. It's kind of like that. That thing where he's like, I do believe that the refs will dole out that justice and. And say like, hey, look, if the league isn't going to find you for that, then we're going to make sure you are aware that we heard it and we don't like it. And that I think is. I think that there might be a little bit of that because he is not getting certain calls, it seems, and he is. All the files are being called against him right now. So anyway, I lost my train of thought. Let's come back. I'll. I'll regain it, and we'll Talk about Jalen and TMac in just a second. Today's show is brought to you by Game Time. Download that game time app because that's going to get you into the arena to watch these Celtics games. Are you in town and you want to see them against Detroit? Hey, why not get in there and watch an NBA game? Or maybe you're in one of these other cities. Maybe you're in Cleveland and you want to catch a game. Wherever it is you open up that game time app, it's gives you the advantage. It's the ultimate life hack for getting amazing NBA tickets fast and stress free. You can get these seats for whatever Celtics game super easy. I've used this app for baseball games, for WNBA games. You open it up, you can see the green, the yellow, the red. So that tells you what the good and mediocre and not so great deals are for tickets. It lets you know you have no hidden fees at checkout. You have a seat view so you can click on a ticket and you can see exactly what the view is going to be from your seat and the zone deals. They pick the tickets, you pick the section, they pick the tickets and you save a lot of money there. There are some NBA tickets on game time for under 25 bucks. So take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with game time. Download the game time app, create an account, use the code locked on MBA for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. That's locked on NBA. L, O, C K e D Locked on N for $20 off. Swipe, tap ticket go. Oh, hey. Welcome to gift wrapping. Whoa. So we saldana.

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[John Corrales]

Visit T mobile.com thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Go check out Locked on NBA Locked on NBA game Night. Game Night covers the league seven days a week. I'm on there on Wednesdays. It will be with Jake Madison of Lockdown Pelicans when he gets back from his honeymoon in a couple of weeks. So that'll be fun. But I will still be there seven days a week covering all the games. Then Lockdown NBA getting all of the big stories in the afternoons. So two podcasts on that feed. All right, let's get back to this conversation here. I did not regain my train of thought from before talking about Jalen Brown. But okay, I think, I think what I was saying was the explanations are like, I, I'd rather hear the explanation. And for sure, an honest, like, get an honest assessment. It's not an excuse. Like an excuse would be like, ah, well, we didn't get any calls and you know, excuses. Yeah, yeah, excuses. But if you're just saying, if you literally are just saying, look, we didn't have Nene, so we're missing a rim protector. We went with a different direction. We weren't, we weren't great on the perimeter defense. And you know, these guys had a ton of confidence and they got going and it was, it was tough to stop. And so we had to try to answer it on the other end. We have to be better and blah blah blah blah and all that stuff. But if you say that, I'd be like, okay, I get it. Sometimes I think reaching for these other things to prevent, like to make it sound like you're not making excuses opens up doors for other things. Because then I followed up, I was like, well, it feels like you're talking about guys who are either auditioning for roles here, maybe auditioning for roles in other teams. They're playing for contracts, they're playing for playing time. How do you deal with your, yeah, of course you're up 20 something. And maybe some of these guys are like, hey, I'm gonna go cook because I have a contract to go get. How do you, how do you deal with that? And I thought that was a natural follow up. And I don't know if he liked that Follow up or not. But when you open up that door, my job is to walk through it. And so I, I wasn't, I wasn't sure what he was talking about. I didn't see anything that he was talking about. Maybe he was talking about other stuff, but I, I just think that sometimes that opens up doors that maybe you don't want to open up. You're creating another problem that then, you know, rather than preventing the one you're trying to prevent.

[Tom Westerholm]

Did you get hit with the. I don't know how to answer that question.

[John Corrales]

No, I didn't. I didn't. Okay. In fact, you avoided.

[Tom Westerholm]

I mean, you avoided. Then the. Did you know that Jalen didn't hate the question then? Because that is.

[John Corrales]

That. That's true. That's true. Where was his answer?

[Tom Westerholm]

It's been a while. It's been a while since I've heard.

[John Corrales]

Him say, yeah, he said, just holding each other accountable, stepping up, having voices, being a leader, me being able to speak like that. But guys have been in the league for a while. Derek's voice is important. Xavier's voice is important. The coaches as well. So he, he kind of was like, yeah, I, I see it. So I don't know. I don't know. I, I didn't see it. But I, I, maybe I'm looking at the wrong games. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

At least Jalen is here to say this stuff to us because for a while there, maybe he was. He didn't think he was gonna be. It's an interesting thing, which I can't play here because it's on Jalen's twitch screen stream, but the, the clip is out there of him saying, in a nutshell, I was thinking that my time in Boston was over mostly because of the trade rumors that he kept finding himself in. And I talked to TMac and I thought he was going to tell me to go, and instead he told me to stay. And that's basically. He's saying that's why I've stayed for as long as I've stayed. And so that is, I think, interesting, Interesting perspective from Tracy McGrady.

[Tom Westerholm]

Sure is.

[John Corrales]

Kind of being like. Because, because he said. Jalen said. I thought he was going to say go because he was the one who, who left. And it's interesting to hear from somebody who left a team in that situation be like, you don't really need to go. It's. It's not as. It's not as great as you think.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Which super interesting. And I wish I'd known that before this Season, because I, you know, it might have. Might have changed how I approached Jalen this season and, you know, talking about maybe his desire to leave and be a one somewhere. Yeah. If he truly is carrying this advice and it wants to stay and win, then all of this, All NBA play that he's. He's putting forward, I think. I also think that realizing how much work it is to be the number one guy, the only guy, is also being like, okay, you know what?

[Tom Westerholm]

I am this guy. I am. I am this good. I. I can tell that I'm this good. Oh, I'm tired.

[John Corrales]

I'm tired. Jt, Come handle some of these. I think. I think just a side note there, I think. I think the net effect of what this season is going to be is that Jalen is going to learn to do a lot of the things that he wasn't. I don't. I don't want to say it wasn't capable of doing, but hadn't proved that he could do. Yeah. And. And I think JT is going to get, like, some of those possessions off, and Jalen's gonna handle a little bit more of that. I think it's gonna be a little bit more equitable moving forward. But, yeah, I think that regardless, even if he has a first team all NBA season, I don't think that that's going to push him to leave. I think he's going to actually be like, no, I want to stay and. And have somebody with me that's more of a running mate.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Yeah. I. You know, it's funny because I. I do. It honestly fills in some gaps, right? Because, yeah, there was some. There was. There were stretches there where it was like, man, Jalen is in every freaking trade rumor. Like, you know, every single one that came along. And, I mean, there was the. I mean, the Anthony Davis one was, you know, was obviously like a big one, but I mean, even like James Harden, like, there. There were. He was, you know, Dame Lillard, like, there were. There were Jalen rumors all over the place. I mean, there's been, you know, Jalen rumors about, like, hey, the Celtics want to get, like, a top pick in the draft, like that maybe they trade Jalen Brown. Like, like those. Those trade rumors have been everywhere. And, you know, I mean, yeah, if you're Jalen Brown, of course that's going to kind of rub you the wrong way. I mean, I, I, you know, I think it also. It's an interesting case study, right, Because I think, you know, Kevin Durant. What if. What if Tracy McGrady had given this advice to Kevin Durant, you know, to James Harden. Right. To guys who have bounced around the league and I think their legacies have suffered massively for it. Whereas, you know, I mean, like, you know, James Harden is an all time offensive player, Kevin Durant's an all time player, full stop, period, no question. Right. Like all timer. And I, I think their legacies have suffered a little bit for having bounced around so much and played for so many different teams and kind of been mercenaries. You get Jalen Brown, it's like he doesn't, he's not going to finish his career with a Kevin Durant esque legacy. But if he wins another championship in Boston, if he, you know, continues on this run that he's on, there's going to be a massive market where he is just remembered in such glowing terms justifiably because he has been so good for so long for a team. Like, to me, I think there's so much value. I think that's kind of what part of what Tracy McGrady is probably getting at, right? I think there's so much value, you know, when you get to that level, when you get to the level of Tracy McGrady, Jalen Brown, Kevin Durant, James Harden, yeah, you, you can think on these massive, you know, 10,000 foot view terms and I think there's a lot of value, legacy wise. You can really think about legacy as opposed to just like career, right? Your career is handled, your career is taken care of, you're going to be multi, multi hundred millionaire, whatever, whatever. But like your legacy then really does matter. And I mean, for a guy like Jaylen Brown, you know, if you can stay in one place for a long time and win championships and make all star teams and do big things like he's been able to do in Boston and you know, embrace the community the way he has embraced the community in Boston. Like, I mean, you come out with something really, really valuable and really, you know, meaningful. I think you come out with this legacy that really means something in a way that like, where is Katie's. Katie's gonna be higher on the all time list, but where in the United States is Katie going to be able to match Jalen Brown's like, sense of purpose and fulfillment? Like, I don't think there is one. And that man, like, you know, it, that matters a lot. I think, at least I think it should. And I have a lot of respect for Jalen. If that's part of his calculus, I.

[John Corrales]

Think, I think that's true I think it's 100 true. What city. What city is going to say KD is ours?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

You know who's gonna say that? Not okc. Like, the way. The way you leave, the way that all happens. Like, and if he doesn't care, then he doesn't care. He's. He's. He's obviously stamped as one of the top, I don't know, 10 players of all time, Whatever it is.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. This is not. Katie hate. I love kd. I love his game. I love his personality. I love Katie.

[John Corrales]

Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

But, like, the legacy stuff is.

[John Corrales]

Is what it is, and I think you're right. Like, Jalen, You. Especially if you win another title here.

[Tom Westerholm]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Corrales]

And then it becomes. You know what he becomes Celtics legend Jalen Brown.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And your. Your number goes up, and it's probably already going up, but, like, there. There are no questions, and there's like, when you have a city, I mean.

[Tom Westerholm]

Heck, you win another finals mvp, it's like.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Are you talking like you're getting into statue territory, dog? Like, that's, like, big stuff, two titles, like.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, yeah. But now I'm. I'm. One reason why I'm glad that I think TMac gave him this advice is, you know, I. I'm. I'm glad that Jalen didn't make a rash decision.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Because my contention throughout the whole thing, because I've been doing this podcast for a long time and talking about all this stuff for a long time. I don't think the Celtics were actively shopping Jalen Brown at all. Like, they never said, okay, we got Jalen Brown. Who. Who's. What do you got? You got Jay. Okay. You got Jimmy Butler. What do you got? Oh, James Harden. You know, like they said, I think the Celtics said, we're interested in Jimmy Butler.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

What would it take? We're interested in James Harden. What would it take? And at that point, the Houston Rockets said it would take Jalen Brown, and that's what gets reported. And the Celtics say, we're not doing Jalen Brown, or, okay, if it's Jalen Brown, then it's only Jalen Brown.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And like, you have to have that discussion. Like, it's not that the Celtics ever said, okay, yeah, we'll do that. It's that they. They are interested in a player. And you have to. You have to say names when these things happen. Right. And it's not. It's not the team's fault if you and I sit here and say, well, the Celtics need to do blah Blah, blah. The Celtics need to go get another center. You know, they need to get a franchise center. Kate is not working. Blah, blah, blah. You got to trade Jalen Brown to get it. And like, if I say that and that gets aggregated because it happens sometimes, like Celtics podcasters. Celtics writer says Jalen Brown's gotta go like that. That's not always accurate, but that stuff is out there and it just seems like, well, there goes my name in rumors again.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Corrales]

I think, I think that's part of it.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think the old idiom where there's smoke, there's fire is. Is completely not true when it comes to NBA rumors. Like, there could a hundred percent be smoke without a fire. When it comes to NBA rumors all.

[John Corrales]

The time rival executives say, yeah, like that drives me nuts. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

And like, because that would actually sound. It rings true. And it's like, nah, dog, that's. They're just.

[John Corrales]

Rival executives say, well, you know, look, we. Brad Stevens is calling around active in trades, you know, and I'm not saying that Jalen was never in an actual trade rumor.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think he was probably in the Anthony Davis ones. I think that's the one where they're. They really wanted. Yes, exactly.

[John Corrales]

Right. Yeah. Because that was going to take like that was going to take one of Jason or Jalen.

[Tom Westerholm]

Exactly. Yeah. I think the Celtics preferred to give up Jalen.

[John Corrales]

That's right. That. That 100 believe that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

And Danny was trying to make that run. And if the, that stupid rule, the salary cap thing that prevented it, if that didn't. That didn't apply, then Anthony Davis would have been a Celtic and Jayla Brown would have been sent to New Orleans. I 100 believe that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And so there are some. Some rumors that were accurate. And when you're making a trade, you got to give something to get something.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And when you're talking about names that big, it falls under the, hey, like, you should be flattered in a way that a team giving up and Anthony Davis would say, we want Jaylen Brown and like that that's going to be what makes this trade okay for us. And like, so. But regardless, I, I think of all of the stuff that was floated out there, there's probably a less than 50%, probably somewhere in the 30 or less percent of that. That was actually the team said the name Jalen Brown in a way that was at least to some degree, a willingness to make a deal that involved Jalen for the player.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Now what I think happened in some of those was whatever player it Was that the other team was offering. They said to Danny Ainge, we want Jalen Brown. And he says, like I said before, well, you're only getting Jalen Brown. And they said, no, we want Jalen and this and picks. And he's like, no, you're not get. You're either getting Jalen and that's it and whatever salary filler, or we're not doing this deal. And I mean, you know what? I'm not even thrilled about the Jalen thing. So you guys can go.

[Tom Westerholm]

And then the other team went to everybody else and said, the Celtics are offering Jaylen Brown.

[John Corrales]

What would you offer?

[Tom Westerholm]

And then that it gets out.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, and then it gets out. Right. The Celtics are willing to move Jalen Brown out there. And like, you know, there is some shred of truth to that. And. And. And that is. That is draining on a player. There's drain. No doubt. That is draining on a player. But I'm glad that he was able to move past that stuff because I do think the Celtics are all along here. I think the Celtics made the right decision. Obviously, they won a championship. I think they. They did. Well, I agree. Since we're. This. Since we're that deep. The only other thing that Jalen. Let's go.

[Tom Westerholm]

I thought we were wrapping up. Let's go.

[John Corrales]

No, we're wrapping. Where we are wrapping up.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay.

[John Corrales]

But I just want to throw this out. Dispelling the booing on draft night thing. I've said this before. I'm going to say it out there again. I don't think Celtics fans were booing. Oh, my God. Jalen Brown boo. Yeah, the. I remember vividly the Jimmy Butler trade rumors. And the thought process was. I remember hearing from one of the reporters, might have been like Windhorse or somebody. If the Celtics select Chris Dunn. Correct. It is a trade to. It is part of a trade to get Jimmy Butler to Boston.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corrales]

If the Celtics select anybody else, that's to keep that player. And Celtics fans at that point wanted to trade for Jimmy Butler. So when not Chris Dunn's name was announced, fans were like, boo. We wanted Jimmy Butler in a trade. I wholeheartedly believe with 100% of my being that the fans did not boo, specifically Jalen Brown. We don't like that pick. Boo. They were booing. We wanted Jimmy Butler at that point. I think he was in Minnesota or maybe he was in Chicago. I forget which one at that point. Yeah, but he was still like, very much like the young superstar.

[Tom Westerholm]

It was Chicago. It was Chicago.

[John Corrales]

Right. And like, I Think fans really, really wanted that. And they were booing the fact that they didn't get the trade for Jimmy Butler. I will go to my grave with that feeling. That is 100 what I believe. And I know Jalen will say I was booed because from his perspective, they said his name and he got booed.

[Tom Westerholm]

Your name was said and you got booed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Corrales]

So again, again, this goes back. So of course he's going to have a perception of that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

But for context, for the real story, and I've never said this to Jalen, I. I hope it comes up sometime in. In conversation, because I really want him to know that that was because I don't want him carrying that. I think this would be a great time for him to, like, understand that context, because it had nothing to do with him. I don't think anybody even knew about him, who he was or what.

[Tom Westerholm]

I don't think so either. And real quick, Tom, victory lap. If the morass that it has that X Twitter has become. If you went back far enough, you would find some. Some draft night tweets from your boy being like, listen, I know Celtics fans wanted Jimmy Butler, but Jalen Brown is going to be really fun. He's probably going to be really good. Like, I had a bunch of tweets that were like, nah, you guys, like, I've been watching the film. This is a good one. So I. I am guilty of. Of being kind of a. Hey, I don't know, maybe it's. Maybe it is time to move Jalen and go get somebody else. Over the years, I've done that a couple times, but sure. But my draft analysis was spot on.

[John Corrales]

Okay, now we're wrapping up.

[Tom Westerholm]

All right, all right. I appreciate you.

[John Corrales]

All right. Appreciate you, man. I appreciate everybody. If you're sticking around for 43 minutes of this, then thank you so much. You're sure I'm gonna get in trouble? I'm sure I'm gonna get in trouble for being this long, and I'm still not wrapping it up. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Thank you, everybody for watching. Really do appreciate you. Get into the comment section on YouTube, share your thoughts about all of this stuff, and then share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.

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