Why Jayson Tatum is UNSURE about returning | Gordon Hayward memories?

Summary

Locked On Celtics: "Why Jayson Tatum is UNSURE about returning | Gordon Hayward memories?"

Date: January 30, 2026
Host: John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal)
Guest: Tom Westerholm

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates the uncertainty surrounding superstar Jayson Tatum’s return from injury, delving into the mental and team dynamics at play. John Karalis and Tom Westerholm analyze Tatum’s own words about wanting to “get it right the first time,” echoing past Celtics experiences, notably Gordon Hayward’s comeback. The hosts explore the implications of Tatum’s hesitation: the concept of “disrupting” a thriving team, team chemistry, and parallels to past Celtics history. The podcast also touches on the Celtics’ current struggles, the fatigue factor heading into the All-Star break, and how the team might integrate Tatum when he does return.

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Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jayson Tatum’s Uncertainty and Approach to Returning

• Tatum’s Cautiousness: Ramona Shelburne reported Tatum told her directly, “he wants to get it right the first time, so it’s just a lot to think about… everyone here recognizes the seriousness of the injury and isn’t rushing into any decisions.” (03:08–03:45)
• Tatum’s Mental State: Tatum is progressing well and feels stronger, but hasn’t made a decision yet due to the gravity of his situation. The team is aware and being cautious.

Quote:
“He wants to get it right the first time, so it’s just a lot to think about.” (03:14, Ramona Shelburne via John Karalis)

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2. “Disruption”: Lessons from the Gordon Hayward Year

• Historical Parallel: Tatum’s second season was marked by Gordon Hayward’s return, which disrupted the Celtics’ chemistry in a negative way—not Hayward’s fault, but a cautionary tale nonetheless (04:07–05:39).
• Personal Impact: Tatum, as a young and impressionable player, witnessed firsthand how an ill-timed reintegration could upset the team’s dynamics.

Quote:
“I wonder if part of Tatum’s concern here is he saw that happen... He’s just thinking to himself, 'I don’t want to be that.'” (05:12, Tom Westerholm)

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3. Respect for Teammates and Reintegrating Tatum

• Balancing Act: Tatum doesn’t want to undermine what his teammates have built in his absence. John respects Tatum’s respect for his teammates—he doesn’t want to barge in and be seen as more important than the collective (06:30–07:24).
• Tatum’s Importance: Despite Tatum’s humility, the team ultimately needs him healthy to contend.

Quote:
“If Tatum comes back, it’s going to change what this team is. There’s no way around it.” (06:00, John Karalis)

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4. Current Celtics Chemistry: Why This Isn’t Hayward 2.0

• Key Distinction: Unlike Hayward’s comeback, Tatum is unquestioned as a franchise cornerstone. There are no “Terry Rozier-type” internal conflicts, and no one who deserves to claim Tatum’s minutes (22:51–25:13).
• Locker Room Strength: This Celtics team is rock-solid, and the young contributors are marginal; no true threat to team chemistry exists as before.

Quote:
“No one else on this team... should be threatened. Everybody on this team should be welcoming Tatum back.” (22:51, John Karalis)

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5. Joe Mazzulla’s Take: Disruption as a Positive

• No Setbacks Physically: Coach Joe Mazzulla stated on Boston radio that there have been “no setbacks” and that Tatum is “progressing naturally” (17:22–17:58).
• Perspective on Disruption: Mazzulla embraces disruption as essential and ultimately beneficial, comparing it to muscle growth or weathering a storm—it may be turbulent, but the end result is growth (18:24–21:14).

Quote:
“I look at disruption as a positive, just making a comeback and just make us better.” (18:24, Joe Mazzulla via John Karalis)

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6. The ‘Jayson vs. Jaylen’ Discourse & Team Dynamics

• External Noise: The success of Jaylen Brown in Tatum’s absence has reactivated online debates about whose team it is, with ‘Jayson stans’ and ‘Jaylen stans’ battling (12:22–12:47).
• Reality Check: Both hosts emphasize the team needs both players, and the true story is how to fit them together for title contention.

Quote:
“If you praise Jayson Tatum, the Jaylen Brown people come up, and if you praise Jaylen Brown, the Jayson Tatum people come up... it’s just this back and forth.” (12:47, John Karalis)

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7. Celtics’ Fatigue, January Struggles, and Path to the Break

• Recent Slump: Celtics are 6–6 in their last 12 (32:03–33:00).
• Fatigue: Both hosts think the team looks genuinely tired; recent mid-range struggles (especially from Jaylen) reflect tired legs, not just regression (30:45–33:15).
• Looking Forward: They discuss the difficult upcoming schedule and the potential benefit of “banked wins.” Tom jokes about giving rotation players an early All-Star break to rest up (30:45–31:50).

Quote:
“This looks like a really tired team… start grounding, get those earth particles in your feet, heal up!” (30:45, Tom Westerholm)

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8. Strategies for Tatum’s Return

• Timing His Comeback: Suggestions range from not making his return a big splash (perhaps returning on the road, not a marquee game) to minimize pressure and headlines (26:29–27:19).
• Team Integration: Reassurances that current chemistry issues don’t parallel the Hayward situation; the team will welcome Tatum back and benefit from it, even if it’s bumpy at first.

Quote:
“Maybe you don’t make it a big splash… maybe you do it on the road, or a less meaningful game.” (26:44, John Karalis)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom Westerholm on Twitter Fandom:
  “It very much becomes that old Twitter meme of, I like pancakes. Oh, so you hate waffles now? And that’s what this has all become.” (12:46)

• Karalis on Rehab Mindset:
  “A rehab is inherently all about Jason Tatum. It’s all about… there’s no teammate in the rehab. It’s you. It’s you against the injury… then now you come to the culmination of it and you’re like, oh wait, now there are teammates involved.” (12:46–15:00)

• Mazzulla’s Storm Metaphor:
  “Even if in the short term, it’s like a thunderstorm. You get the hot and the cold, they slam into each other, and you get a thunderstorm… but then on the other end, things are growing, we came out the other side… we’re better off for it.” (20:20, John Karalis paraphrasing Joe Mazzulla’s take)

• On Tatum and Brown Needing Each Other:
  “They need each other. They know they need each other. So let’s figure out how to get this thing back together.” (12:46, John Karalis)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:08: Tatum’s comments via Ramona Shelburne, “get it right the first time”
• 04:07–05:39: Gordon Hayward’s return as a precedent for negative disruption
• 06:30–07:24: Tatum’s respect for his teammates and the challenges of reintegration
• 12:22–12:47: Online “Jayson vs. Jaylen” debate reignites
• 17:22–17:58: Joe Mazzulla says there have been no setbacks in Tatum’s rehab
• 18:24: Mazzulla: “I look at disruption as a positive”
• 22:51–25:13: Explaining why this isn’t another Hayward situation (chemistry is different)
• 30:45–31:50: Both hosts discuss the Celtics’ fatigue and possible rest strategies

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Tone & Final Takeaways

• The conversation is analytical yet conversational, peppered with humor and analogies.
• The core message: Tatum’s return is complex, wrapped in psychological concern, memories of past disruption, and a changing Celtics landscape. The integration might not be seamless, but it is necessary, and the team (and its leaders) seem equipped to handle it positively.
• The hosts push back against the combative online discourse, emphasizing nuance over narrative battles.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode breaks down the uncertainty surrounding Jayson Tatum’s return and why it’s about more than being physically ready. Drawing on lessons from the Gordon Hayward ordeal, the hosts explain why Tatum feels pressure not to disrupt the chemistry the Celtics have painstakingly built. Coach Joe Mazzulla offers reassurance that disruption can be positive and that Tatum’s return will make the team better in the long run. Ultimately, however, Tatum and Brown’s partnership—despite fan debates—remains central to Boston’s championship hopes. The Celtics' current fatigue, minor slump, and need for rest only highlight how much they need Tatum back, even if it takes some adjustment.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[John Corrales]

Foreign podcast network your team every day.

[Jake (State Farm Ad Voice)]

This is Jake from Lock Dawn. When the game's on the line, the best know when to pass because the right assist can change everything. And off the court, it's no different. That's where your State Farm agent comes in. Whether it's protecting your car, your home, or helping you prep for the unexpected, they'll help set you up with a game plan that works for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state.

[John Corrales]

New year, same extra value meals at McDonald's. Now get a savory sausage McMuffin with egg plus hash browns and a small coffee for just $5 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery now on the Locked On Celtics podcast, Jayson Tatum wants to get his return right the first time. Plus Joe Mazzulla we on the controversy Lock on Celtics pot, home of the winning. Hey, welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics podcast right here in the Lockdown podcast network. It's not a controversy, but you know, Jason Tatum. It's a drama. I don't know what, how to characterize it, but we're going to be talking about it here on the Locked On Celtics podcast. So make sure you're subscribed wherever you get. Your podcast is what we do five days a week, plus bonus podcasts when they pay in the weekends, tomorrow night or this is the Friday show. So if you're listening on Friday tonight against the Sacramento Kings, post game podcast after that. So it's available Everywhere. It's on YouTube. If you're new to the show, you don't know who I am. I'm John Corrales. I'm a beat writer covering the Celtics for Sports Illustrated Celtics on si. I have written a couple of books about this team. I've been covering the team for 20 years doing this podcast for 10 of them. Today's show is brought to you by game time. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code LOCKEDON for $20 off your first first purchase of tickets. Maybe you're looking for a ticket to get to what might be Jason Tatum's return. If there is a return. And we're going to talk about we're bringing Tom Wester home. What's up, Tom?

[Tom Westerholm]

You know, it was, it was kind of Tatum to give us, what, 20 hours or so between us talking about him and then him making everything that we said not irrelevant but, you know.

[John Corrales]

Throwing it.

[Tom Westerholm]

If somebody was A day late on the podcast. They missed a lot is what I was.

[John Corrales]

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. And, you know, I, I think so. Later on. Later on we'll get a T. Like, we'll look ahead to the Celtics and, and how they're going to finish before the All Star break. But the first two segments are all going to be about Tatum and his Joe Missoula. We'll get to Joe Missoula in the second segment about how he's had no setbacks and all this stuff disrupting the Celtics, that whole concept. But after Chris Haynes, which I talked about in last night's post game podcast, Ramona Shelburne came out with an interesting couple of tweets that said that she talked directly to Tatum and she said, quote, he wants to get it right the first time, so it's just a lot to think about. And then she said he added that he's progressing well, feels stronger, hasn't made a decision yet because of how serious the injury is. And he said everyone here recognizes the seriousness of the injury and isn't rushing into any decisions. So it is a lot. It is an interesting kind of left turn here because I thought it was just either you come back, you're healthy and you're mentally ready and you come back, or you're not healthy, or you don't feel, like, confident out there and you don't come back. This concept of. Well, I'm not sure if I want to. And I'll use the term disrupt because that's the term that was thrown around on the radio with, with Joe and Joe, like, there. It would be some level of disruption that doesn't necessarily have to be a negative term. That whole concept is, frankly, a little surprising to me. I don't know about you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I mean, you know, the, the concept of disruption. I mean, obviously, like you said, we're going to get into it, like, later on, but it is, it, like, it's, it's unquestionably there. You know, he. It's. It's going to happen. And I think it's interesting to hear Tatum talking about, like you said, get it right the first time. It's. I think what we're seeing here is Tatum recognizing the importance of, of not being a negative disruption. And I think it's interesting to kind of look at how Tatum came up in the league from that regard. Right. Because the second, his second season was the Gordon Hayward year, right, where, where Gordon Hayward came back and it disrupted everything. It ended an entire, like, line that the Celtics were trying to follow. He was trying to go down. Danny angel was trying to go down a very specific path. Gordon Hayward's return disrupted all of that in a very negative way. And it wasn't Gordon Hayward's fault. I don't think anybody reasonable would look at Gordon Hayward and be like, wow, how did you do that to the Celtics?

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

And I wonder if part of Tatum's concern here is he saw that happen. And I would, I wonder if he's just thinking to himself, like, I don't want to be that, like, I don't want that. I, I don't, I don't want to disrupt anything that's happening here in, in that negative way. I, I wonder how formative that was for him given that, you know, at the time he was a really impressionable young NBA player. Like he was. That was the start of things for him.

[John Corrales]

I, I, and I can appreciate that. I think that's a great point, the connecting it to something that he's been through in the past. That's where a lot of this always comes from. Right. You've experienced something and then all of a sudden that creeps up and be like, this might just be a little bit of that self doubt of, I know I have to come back and be, you know, it is going to change what this team is. There's no, there's no way around it. If Tatum, if Jason Tatum comes back this season, his insertion into the lineup, it's going to be, you're, you're throwing in a guy who hasn't played basketball since, since last May. It's going to be almost the full calendar year. So nine months and as he said, 50 to 60 games or whatever it is, he's gonna have to get right. This is basically a preseason game for him. Meanwhile, his teammates have gone through all of this stuff and he, they, they are in a place where they, they, I, I, the way I put it last night, for people who didn't hear it, like, I respect Tatum's respect for his teammates. They have worked this hard. They have gone through a thing. They have an identity. I don't want to come in and screw up that identity because what have they been working for? You know, like that whole element of, I don't want to be, I don't want to come in and be like, I'm more important than all you guys, so you guys gotta wait for me to come back. At the same time, he, he is more important than basically everybody on that team except for Jalen Brown. Because if they're going to win a championship. They need a healthy Jason Tatum. And this is just part of the Tatum recovery. It's, again, I can appreciate the, the whole Hayward thing, but this is also not Gordon Hayward.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's not the same thing for sure.

[John Corrales]

It's not the same thing at all. And some time to kind of come back and work through some stuff. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, especially because you can do it. As we've talked about, it's off the bench. Come in, you know, do the wimby. Yeah, do the Wimby thing. Like, come in, get check in, check in for Jalen. You know, you don't have to have those guys getting in each other's way. You have to, you, you just have to come in and work and knock off the rust and be the best you can be. And it's going to be in limited minutes. It's going to be in 15, 20, 25 minute increments. He's not just going to come back and play 40 minutes. And the hope is that his, whatever percentage of himself that he is eventually just going to be better than, I don't know, Jordan Walsh or Josh Minot or, you know, whoever that, that, that's the whole thing. So I, my, where I've landed on this is I just feel like there's maybe a little bit of self doubt. The Gordon Hayward thing is. Certainly feels like that that's something that's in his, his mind and he doesn't want to be, he doesn't want to be a negative. He does not want to be, you know, come in and Jalen's having this whole first team all NBA year and, and he's been doing all of this stuff. He may not want to come in and say, hey, I'm, it's me. You step aside now because you've worked hard. So it, it's, it's a, it's a real, it's interesting, fascinating kind of place. And in a, in a way it's, it's kind of like an example of the, the adjustments, the, the, the stuff that we talked about before where Jalen and Jason are going to have to, you know, figure things out a little bit before they kind of dive into. We're just going to get back to being a contender again. This is all part of the reintroduction kind of part.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And I, I think to that point, right. If you think that Jason Tatum isn't seeing all of this stuff about like, is he going to disrupt things if you're not like he's seen everybody calling Jalen Brown an MVP candidate, which, I mean, this season, Jalen Brown has gotten, like, more chatter, or at least as much chatter as Tatum has at any point in his career in terms of mvp and maybe more like. Maybe more serious chatter based on the fact that the Celtics weren't supposed to be this good. Right. So that I. Tatum is seeing all of that. Tatum has seen everybody who has said, like, Jaylen Brown was the Finals mvp. He's seen all that stuff, like, guaranteed, right? He's. He. He's very conscious of his legacy and how he's perceived and all of this stuff. So when he's saying, you know, maybe I shouldn't come back. I haven't decided for sure if I. If I should come back, like, I think you're right. I think there is probably some level of, like, him being really cognizant of where things stand with the Celtics and what it would mean if he came back and the Celtics struggled. If the Celtics struggled to reintegrate him. I think he is probably very well aware of how that would look and. Which stinks for him. Right. Because the Celtics need him back. Look no further than. Than last night. Right? The Celtics, like, they just didn't have it, and they need him. He's. He's such an important piece. He's, like you said, probably the most important piece. Maybe not. And this year, maybe Jaylen Brown, you know, supplants that. But, like, the. The story of the Boston Celtics, the most important story of the Boston Celtics over this whole season, they've had this nice year, but the most important story of the whole thing has just been when is. When is Tatum coming back? Is it this year? How will he look when he does? Because that's the level of superstar. He is. So it. I do feel for him because I understand why there's that doubt there. And it's why I joked. Yes. Two days ago on the pod, that if it was me, I'd come back for the Nets game rather than the Knicks. I just wouldn't want that level of, like, scrutiny on my first game back when I'm just getting back out. So I don't know. I. I feel for him because he is that important. Like, it's not Gordon Hayward. There is no, like. No, you are like the franchise in so many ways. And. But I also completely get why that level of question would be there.

[John Corrales]

I think the worst thing that's happened in this. This time, it's. I'm a big believer in the best Thing that happened is the worst thing that happened. And sometimes the worst things that happen can be the best things that happen. Like the. The. The worst thing that happened is Jason Tatum's injury. But the best thing about it is, hey, look at you. What you get out of Jaylen Brown. Yeah. And look at what you get out of these other guys.

[Tom Westerholm]

And you.

[John Corrales]

You start to get a real sense of how this team needs to be built. Strengths and weaknesses and all of that stuff. And then you turn around and say, well, the best thing that happened is Jalen Brown has. Has led this team to all of this. But then the worst part of that is, well, now the Jalen. Jalen stands and the Jason stands on. Are back at it, and we're not. We're not coexisting anymore. This is like, hey, here's Jalen. Look at.

[Jake (State Farm Ad Voice)]

See, we knew.

[John Corrales]

We knew he doesn't need Jason Tatum. And all the Jason Tatum people are like, what are you talking about? He's looking at. His percentages are dipping and blah, blah, blah. And they're. They're starting to fall apart again now. And it's just. It's just this back and forth where if you praise Jason Tatum, the Jalen Brown people come up, and if you praise Jalen Brown, the Jason Tatum people come up, and it very much becomes that old Twitter meme of, I like pancakes. Oh, so you hate waffles now? And that's what this has all become because of all of this, because Jalen is so good and Jason is coming back, and. And people can't. People can't handle the. The concept of, okay, so Jalen is this good. Jason is this good. Okay, they need each other. They know they need each other. So let's figure out how to get this thing back together. And that's where we are right now. This is the figuring out part. I think Jason is just saying out loud, hey, I know I've been building up to this, but I'm starting to get that, you know, second thought, you know, hold on. You know, I'm. I'm. Yes, I'm almost ready, but I want to. I want to be absolutely sure. There's just that little bit of a. I think the steamroll of head down. I'm rehabbing. Look at me. Look at. Look at me. Be how good I'm doing. Yeah, I'm ready to make this return. And a rehab is inherently all about Jason Tatum. It's all about. There's no teammate in the rehab. It's you. It's you against the injury. It's you against that mentality of, I can't do it. Oh, yeah, I can do it. And then now you come to the culmination of it and you're like, oh, wait, now there are teammates involved. And I can't just be me, me, me, me, me. Which, again, that's what a rehab is. A rehab is a test of will. And it's not that. That's not a criticism of Tatum. That's you. It's you against yourself, your body and the doubters and all of that stuff. But then when you come up for air, you realize, now I have to incorporate my team, my teammates, they have to incorporate me. And. And I think this is where he's at. Let's come back, we'll talk about the physical where Joe Missoula comes in and says there's no setbacks and how. How this concept of disrupting. That's all coming up when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by. Game Time. There's nothing like being in an NBA arena. When you see the crowd, when you see a Celtics going on a run, I know. TD Garden explodes. If you've never been in there, you should. You should open up the Game Time app and you can go to a Celtics game. And what you'll get is upfront pricing, no surprise fees. When you're at checkout, you'll see the view from your seat. Again, if you've never been into the arena, I can say section 114, but you don't know what that means. But you can look on the app and say, oh, this is the view from section 114, and this is what I want to pay. Maybe that's not what you want to pay. Maybe that's not what you want to see. They have zone deals. You can kind of pick a section. Game Time picks the seats, and they'll help you save money. So whether it's last minute, whatever it is, the app is quick, easy to use, intuitive, and you can take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets. With Game time. Download the Gametime app, create an account, use the code locked on for $20 off. Your first purchase. That's locked on. L O C K E D O N locked on for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. And remember, if you're going on the web, it's gametime.co gametime co new year, same extra value meals at McDonald's. Now get a savory sausage McMuffin with egg plus hash browns and a small coffee for just $5 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery. Thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Every day you're an everydayer, and now you can join the Everydayer club to help you get ready. If you're getting ready for the trade deadline, it's going to be a fun one and you need a group chat to keep up join hours. The everyday club gets you access to a group chat for Celtics fans on Discord, plus national chats where you can hang out with fans from across the league. You get AD Reef ad free versions of the show. You can sign up by February 5th. Use the code deadline. You get your first month free. That's five bucks off. If you want to pay up front, it's 50 bucks. So tap the link in the show notes go to lockdown celtics supercast.com lockdown celtics.supercast all right, Joe Missoula was on the radio. He does a weekly appearance on 98.5 Sports Hub in Boston. Obviously he was asked about this and the the takeaways. Tom. Very simple. No setback, no physical setbacks. None of this.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I real. Before you, before we go past setbacks, I think it's so important to note everything that we said before, right? All that mentality stuff. As we were saying it, I was like, I really think we need to highlight that Joe said there were no setbacks because, like, it's so important to note, like the, like the physical stuff is all the same. Because it would be one thing if Tatum was like, I am not. All of a sudden I tweet something. Something's not feeling right. Sure. That's not what happened. Right. We're like, so. So something is going on with all of this stuff. Based on the podcast conversation that he had that sparked this whole conversation. Anyway, continue.

[John Corrales]

No. Right. So there's zero setback quote, progressing naturally. So he's checking the boxes. There are checkpoints. They have to go through a rehab process and hitting all those and continue to work. And that's the only thing I check in on, care about is where is he at as a person throughout the process, all that stuff, blah, blah, blah. He was asked about disruption and Joe Missoula, in very Joe Missoula fashion says.

[Tom Westerholm]

I look at disruption essential. Yes. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

I look at disruption as a positive, just making a comeback and just make us better. So I think it's two things. One, I think you go through an injury in a process like this, a thousand things are going to come up And I think one of the greatest things about a guy like Jason is his openness and his vulnerability and his honesty, where he's at as a person. And. And so it goes on. He goes, you should never just be worried about disrupting in a negative way. He'll be disrupting in a positive way because he'll make us better at both ends of the floor and already add to what we've been building. Been able to build here this season. So the. The message from Joe Missoula is he's fine. He's checking the boxes whenever he wants to come back. We'd love him back. And yes, would. He would be disruptive, but in a positive way because he would make us better. And we'll figure it out. Which. 100.

[Tom Westerholm]

100.

[John Corrales]

Like, that's. I think that gets to the heart of everything that I've been saying here, and the stuff I still. The. The weird Tatum Twitter cult that is just driving me nuts. And I do not want to make any of my show about what happens on Twitter, because Twitter's not real. But the people who don't understand that, yes, it will be a disruption to this team also, they will figure out this disruption, and it will be a positive because you're adding Jason freaking Tatum back to a lineup. And, yes, he will have to adjust.

[Tom Westerholm]

Adding. Does that mean he's been subtracted? How dare you.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, that's. That's essentially it. That's essentially it.

[Tom Westerholm]

So it's really fun to do. It's like such a Fun.

[John Corrales]

Oh, man.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like to just, like. Like, it's the. The most fun little game to play. I. I enjoy it immensely. It's.

[John Corrales]

It is fun.

[Tom Westerholm]

I should just be a Twitter troll. I should get back on Twitter and just become a troll.

[John Corrales]

I mean, there's plenty of people out there that. Anyway, so, yeah, I think. I think this is. This is the heart of it that Jason Tatum, like I was saying before, he knows that this is going to change things. He knows this is going to be disruptive. It is just a fact of the matter. This will be. This will change how things have been going. And even if in the short term, it's like. It's like a thunderstorm, right? You get the hot and the cold, and they slam into each other, and you get a thunderstorm. And at first you're like, man, this thunderstorm sucks. And that might happen with the Celtics, but then on the other end, you're like, man, we got all this water. This is great. There's, you know, things are growing where we're we came out of it the other side and, you know, maybe a couple of tree branches are down, but in the end, we're doing okay. And this is. We're better off for having gotten all this water and weather and all that. So, though, that's.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Or, yeah. Or, or to, you know, I think Joe Missoula, like, you know, it's like when you lift weights, right, you tear all those fibers and it's a disruption. You're just literally disrupting your muscles, and then they grow back stronger. And I think. Yeah, I, I, I. Even when you. And I think that's actually an important way to look at the Gordon Hayward thing, too. Right. Because you go back to that season and there was so much disruption and there was so much tearing and everything else and so much of a storm. That entire season was just an absolute hurricane. But you come out on the other end of that with a genuine path forward. Right. You're not worried about what does Kyrie Irving think of. I don't have to, I don't have to worry about how to integrate all these guys. It's. No, it's okay. This is the Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum show, and when you invest in the Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum show, eventually you get a title out of it. Like, that was. I, I think that goes to your point, right. Whatever happens with this disruption, it will take some time. But, and like, to your point, I, I don't know that it's always going to look good, and I know that, like, people are not looking. I think people are really not looking forward to that part of it, partly because I think people are really worried about what other fans are going to say online. Right. When, yeah, when Tatum comes back, if it's not perfect right away. You know, I think people are, like, anticipating the, oh, look at the Celtics. It's over for the Celtics. And you know what? Yeah, that's probably going to happen, but it's not going to be over for the Celtics. They're going to have Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown back, and eventually that partnership will probably flourish again. Like, I don't have a lot of question about that.

[John Corrales]

So I go back to the Gordon Hayward thing, and my, my, one of my biggest takeaways from that was how big a problem I always perceived Terry Rozier to be. I, I really, I really felt like Terry Rozier was more than Kyrie, more than, like, I think Terry Rozier was a much bigger problem because his minutes, he was going to be in that Gordon Hayward role. Like Hayward was heward sucked. He was working his way back and Terry Rosier was like, I can be better than him. And I don't understand why he is getting my minutes. That does not exist on this team. There's no question that when Jason Tatum comes back, because who, who could possibly be supplanted? He's not supplanting anybody. Jordan Walsh. Jordan Walsh can't look at Jason Tatum in any way and be like, oh, I should be getting those minutes. Jaylen Brown is well established as an all NBA level player, so he's not going to. He shouldn't be threatened by any of this. No one else on this team. Derrick White. Derek White's going to be like, thank God I get to go back to catch and shoot Derrick White and not create White. Catch and shoot. Derek White is like, oh, man, that guy is amazing. And this Derrick White is also really good. But catch and shoot White is there is better. So he's going to be like, yes. Thank you so much. Everybody on this team should be welcoming Tatum back. Jaylen Brown should be like, we got some help. I don't have to do it all. You can still do basically everything that you've been doing. You just don't have to do it all. And that's going to be great because at the end of the game when you're feeling tired, you won't be as tired because there are stretches where you could just be like, I'm going to go in the corner and let Jason Cook. And that's. And Jason doesn't have to do it all. He could be like, I'm going to go in the corner and let Jalen Cook, because I can let him do that. Five more possessions a game than we used to. Like, that's just, I think in the end, a real positive way to do this. And then in the fourth quarter, everybody's going to be that little bit fresher, maybe get a little bit better execution, and that's it. So whatever Tatum is worried about, I don't think that level. If the Gordon Hayward thing is in the back of his head, that dynamic doesn't exist. The locker room is incredibly different. It's a much stronger place.

[Tom Westerholm]

They.

[John Corrales]

I don't think the guys in that locker room would allow that mentality to permeate anything. The people here are just so much better. Any young guys that are impacted are marginal contributors at this point and even at their best aren't going to grow into more of like Jordan Walsh. And no disrespect to Jordan Walsh by the way. But when Jason Tatum comes back next season, Jordan Walsh is. Is part of the rotation. He's going to be doing what he did this year. That's going to be his role no matter what. So Hugo Gonzalez can find a way and grow. We'll see what he becomes. But in the end, I hope that Tatum kind of recognizes all of this stuff that we're saying and says, okay, let's. Maybe you don't make it a big splash. Maybe you. Maybe what you don't do is come back on Super Bowl Sunday like we talked about. Maybe you do say, you know what, we're going to make it a different game. I'm going to make it a less meaningful game, and I'm not going to make myself as much of the center of attention as I wanted to because he definitely, again, no shade Jason Tatum, he wanted to make this a big deal. He wanted to be. Because he wants to. That's the triumph. That's the payoff.

[Tom Westerholm]

It is a big deal. It's a huge deal.

[John Corrales]

I came back from.

[Tom Westerholm]

Inherently, it's massive.

[John Corrales]

Right. And he wants to make it a big deal. But now I think he's realizing, like, this is about more than just me having this moment. Like he should have this moment.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

But also it's about more than that. And it's okay that it's about more than that. Maybe just rethink how you do it and you can move on from there. Like, you don't. Don't make this whole big thing about taking away from the team. Maybe you do do it on the road. Maybe you rethink that and you say, I'm just going to come back. We're going to do it in Golden State. We're going to do it on the out of the All Star break or whatever and then build something up and then you can kind of embrace the people at home. So I don't know. I. I think there's a way to do it. He may need to adjust it, but I think. I think ultimately we're going to get into a good place where Datum does still come back this year.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think so, too.

[John Corrales]

All right, so let's see what he's coming back to. We'll wrap up the show quickly. There's seven more games before the break. The Celtics have been struggling a little bit. A little bit. They're not January. It's a January Celtics thing. So where. Where will they end up? We'll do that when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel Super Bowl Sunday is coming up. Whether it involves Tatum or not, we know it's going to involve the Patriots and the Seahawks. It's one last kickoff, one more time to get in on the NFL action before that season closes at Super Bowl 60. And FanDuel is making sure you're right in the middle of it all with a special offer just in time for the biggest game of the year. So whether you're backing the favorite, riding with the underdog, or building one last same game, parlay the games. This is the game that everybody's waiting for. So it's a perfect way to cap off the season and make the super bowl even more exciting. From kickoff to final whistle, here's the offer. If you're a new customer, you bet $5 and you'll get $200 in bonus bets. And if you win, so make it a good one. Make it count. Because after the super bowl football season is over, you have to turn your attention to something else. Last call For Football on FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60 and official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl60. When you sign up, when you log in, they'll ask you to set your limit. Please do that. Set your limit. Be reasonable and set it. If you hit a cold streak, they'll help you. They'll stop you. Just chill out. When you get paid again or whatever, you can get back to it and have fun gambling responsibly. Visit FanDuel.com to get everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits plan features in Texas and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. Thank you for making Locked on Celtics your first listen every day. Speaking of the super bowl locked on Patriots locked on Seahawks locked on NFL. You want to get ramped up for that for super bowl, that's where you got to go. Whatever fan you are, maybe you are Boston. All Boston. I'll be listening to Lockdown Patriots. I'm unabashedly a Patriots fan, but maybe you're not. A lot of people aren't. So you want. You want to root against the Patriots and listen to Lockdown Seahawks?

[Tom Westerholm]

Check it out.

[John Corrales]

Lockdown NFL's got it all covered. So check that out. All right, Tom Westerholm. The Celtics on Friday night take on the Sacramento Kings. Then they take on on Sunday afternoon, the Milwaukee Bucks. The Giannis, Les Milwaukee Bucks, Dallas, Houston Road back to back. Sorry, you said I had you muted.

[Tom Westerholm]

I said maybe the forever Giannis lists.

[John Corrales]

Maybe the forever Yanis's Milwaukee bugs, Miami, New York on Super Bowl Sunday return. Maybe, maybe not. And then Chicago on Wednesday the 11th at home before heading out to the All Star break. They have been sliding a little bit here. The. And, and that's to be expected. I, first of all answer this for me. Regression or January doldrums?

[Tom Westerholm]

I actually think, I think it's, I think it's a little bit regression, but I also think less doldrums and more. I think they look tired. Like this looks like a really tired team. I don't know about doldrums as much as, just like they have not had two days off in a row in a long time. And they've had road trips. They've had all kinds of stuff. Like they, their schedule has been really, really rough. Like my, my big take from these last seven games is if I were Joe Missoula, I would like you play Super Bowl Sunday. And then I tell every one of my rotation guys, goodbye. Enjoy. I don't care about that Chicago game. Get out of here. Go. Like, I mean, you know, Jalen's headed to the All Star game obviously, but like everybody else, go get your feet in the sand now. Start grounding. Get some of that, those earth particles in your feet, like heal up. Because like, I, I just, you have a couple, a couple days off before that Chicago game. I'm just telling them to leave.

[John Corrales]

Just go, goodbye. Take two weeks off.

[Tom Westerholm]

Thank you for your service. We'll see you soon.

[John Corrales]

That would be fun. You know, you get a Max Shulga.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Harper, you know, yeah. Amari Williams, get him out there. Yeah, sure. I, I'd be all for that. Joe Missoula is not going to do that. I know, but I, I agree, I agree. You know, I think Jalen is due for a day off. Like, he's been due for a day off. I'm surprised that he played in that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Chicago game for when Tatum comes back.

[John Corrales]

Oh, man, like he, he needs, he needs some time off, man, because the, the mid range game has slipped a lot in January for, for Jalen. And that's the thing that what made the Celtics so good is they, you know, Jalen was just hitting these shots just at a ridiculous Rating like, man, he's just crushing us from mid range and just opening up so many things. Now the Celtics, let's see where they've lost two, three, four, five, six games in January, which is, I mean they, that's a lot for, for them for what this season has been 2 4, 5 2, 3.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, while you're counting that, I also want to say about Jalen's mid range.

[John Corrales]

6 and 6 last 12.

[Tom Westerholm]

Part of what made him so good at those mid range shots was he was getting to his spots like so determinedly. And I think that's why I, to me, it looks more like tired legs than anything else.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Because it's harder for him to get to his spots. It's harder for him to get around people. Like, I don't think defenses suddenly figured Jalen out. I think he's, I think he's really tired.

[John Corrales]

They're being more physical with him, which plays to your point. Like they're really being more physical with him. And so that's, that's wearing him down. Which is another reason, by the way, for Jason to come back.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

Because now if you put Jason Tatum on the floor with jalen, even some 60% of Jayson Tatum, you still have to worry about him. It just opens things up for J. I think that Jalen has done such a great job this season and now teams are just saying, fine, we're just going to beat the hell out of you because you're the only one that can create his own shot consistently outside of Peyton Pritchard. Yeah. Is probably the next best guy to create his own shot. And his size works against him where he, he can get in and get into people's bodies and. But then when he turns around, if you're playing against Dyson Daniels. Oh, crap, that's not going to work.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

So where they end up at this point, it's going to be interesting because you look at, you should beat Sacramento. Milwaukee, you should beat, let's see, Chicago. You, you should. Well, depending on if they follow your plan or not, New York will be iffy. Miami you probably should beat. But that's, you know, that's always a weird game. And then you got that Dallas, Houston, where you don't know what version of Dallas you're going to get. And they, they've had some good games. Houston is just so poorly mat the Celtics matchup. So poorly. Even though Stephen Adams is done for the season, that's still a tough matchup for them. So I don't know where they back.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

On A back to back. Yeah. So I don't know where the, the Celtics end up here. The good thing is that they've banked so many wins. This is, I remember saying this on a podcast a while ago. You bank the wins when you can, because now, okay, they're tied. They're tied for second. They're 6 and 6 in their last 12. Even if they continue along at 500 and they, they go into the All Star break at third or fourth, that's still okay. You're still okay. So I like, I like where you're at on this because I, I think there might be a tiny bit of regression, but I, but with the regression, I think regression is inherently part, as the season goes on, inherently part of fatigue.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

You know, so.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yep.

[John Corrales]

Maybe, maybe it is even an unfair classification to say, well, J. Jalen's mid range shot is regressing. Jalen's also really tired. And as the 82 season, 82 game season goes on, you're gonna regress sometimes just because you're like, oh, God, I can't, I can't get up on these jumpers.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. It's like you're, you're regressing like that. That does happen. But then also your regression is amplified by your exhaustion. Your regression is amplified by not having two days off in a row. So it's like you don't know where. It's, where one starts and the other, you know, ends. But, like, they're both there for sure. And I, Yeah. And, and they, they do not help each other.

[John Corrales]

They do not. I, I, I feel like Jason Tatum can, can help. Yeah, Jason Tatum can help a lot of this, even as he's working his way back. Because just help.

[Tom Westerholm]

Does that mean he's been hurting?

[John Corrales]

That's right. That's right. That's exactly. You know what? I'm gonna shut up now. I'm gonna wrap the show because I've probably said a dozen things in here that I'm gonna, People on Twitter are gonna, I don't know. It's just, it is really funny. It's just really funny. And I'll, I'll save this for, for this. Now I'm at the end of the show. I can get into it a little bit.

[Tom Westerholm]

Minute 36. You're like, all right, like, let's go.

[John Corrales]

Let's, let's, you know, just, just for a second. Just the. I don't care. I honestly, I don't care if people disagree with me. I don't care if people think I'm a Moron. You know, there's some. Sometimes I say things. Sometimes you say things that you're like, off the top of your head, like you're saying it, and you go, oh, wait a minute, that's. That's the thing. And then afterwards you go, maybe not, maybe not. When you talk for a living and write for a living, you, ideas pop in your head, you explore them, you write them, and then afterwards you go, maybe not, maybe not. And you get a. A ration of crap for it. And then. But the thing that bothers me about what's been happening here, like, don't make up things that I said. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't take. Don't do the. Oh, you hate. You know, you hate waffles when I say I like pancakes. Because I've said plenty. I've said enough for you to get mad at normally. Just. I've had opinions, and I think I'm one of the more rational people around, and I still have opinions that maybe some people don't like. Fine. That's fine. But geez, the people putting. Taking what I said and going three steps down the road and then saying, well, you're basically saying this, and that's stupid. And like, I didn't basically say. I didn't say those words at all. So that's. That's the part that's just very. Twitter. Twitter is so bad now. I want to. I want to transition to blue sky so bad. I've said that for, like a year now. Yeah, right. All the people are on Twitter, like, all the PR sources, all of the teams, all of everything. I was. I'm just like, can somebody just move on over?

[Tom Westerholm]

Let's just.

[John Corrales]

It's like. It's like the Simpsons where they move the town. I just. The other town has just turned into a pile of garbage. Let's just move the town over here and turn this into a pile of garbage. And then I'll go on to. I don't know. Threads is horrible. Threads might be worse. But anyway, that's my.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's my 2 cents, not 3 cents. I can barely believe you.

[John Corrales]

Bye, Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate it, man.

[John Corrales]

I do appreciate Tom Westerholm being here, giving me that. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for watching. It's just funny. It's just funny on a daily basis, people. Somebody asked me on Twitter, like, how do you have the energy to do this? I was like, you know what? It's my own fault because I engage very easily. Just mute people and just not even care. But for some reason I like. I like to interact. I like to be understood. I think that's the thing. When people don't understand what I'm saying, it bugs me. So understand this. The podcast is over and thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. I do appreciate you being here every Monday through Friday. I got a bonus podcast coming up after the Kings game, so make sure you listen to that. I will be here after that starting next week, another Monday through Friday and then a Super Bowl Sunday podcast. I will give you a Super Bowl Sunday podcast and hopefully do that in enough time to go watch the Patriots win. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Please share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.

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[John Corrales]

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