COWBOYS SQUAD SHOW: Can the Cowboys Defense REALLY be fixed?

Summary

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Locked On Cowboys: "COWBOYS SQUAD SHOW: Can the Cowboys Defense REALLY be fixed?"

Date: February 13, 2026
Hosts: Landon McCool, Jeff Biggs, Glenn "Stretch" Smith
Network: Locked On Podcast Network

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
This episode tackles a burning question for Cowboys Nation: Can the defense actually be fixed enough to make Dallas a true Super Bowl contender? Hosts Landon McCool (Locked On Cowboys), Jeff Biggs (Cowboys Squad Show), and former Cowboys coach Glenn "Stretch" Smith break down the state of the defense, discuss the team's cap situation and offseason strategies, examine GM Jerry Jones' recent introspection, and reflect on what separates championship teams from perennial also-rans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can the Cowboys Defense Be Fixed for a Super Bowl Run?

[03:45-07:48]

• Jeff Biggs frames the central question: Despite coaching changes and the possibility of new additions at DB, can the Cowboys truly fix their defense, or is this just offseason optimism?
• Landon McCool:
  • Acknowledges the challenge but sees it as possible:

    "You can rebuild the defense. It's going to be a very difficult task ... but I think if you're talking about building the defense to a place where you feel like they have a good enough team at large to win the Super Bowl—yeah, I do think that's possible." (05:19)

  • Cautions against assuming the offense is already set:

    "Teams need to evolve every year ... it's a mistake to completely rest on your laurels on the offensive side." (07:07)

2. The Salary Cap – Flexibility & Restructures

[07:48-09:56]

• Glenn Smith: Raises concerns about financial resources for filling needs.
• Landon McCool:
  • Outlines the Cowboys’ cap flexibility:

    "You could flip four switches and have enough money to pay for Pickens on the franchise tag, pay for both second-round tenders for backup O-linemen, pay for Williams and a free agent DE ... The Cowboys have $133 million available to them in simple restructures. They are the number one team in the NFL in restructure-capable money." (08:06-09:56)

3. Defensive Identity: Physicality, Technique, and Personnel Needs

[09:56-14:20]

• Glenn Smith:
  • Emphasizes the importance of physical play, especially at DB and on the edges.

    "All of those defenses to me are physical on the edges ... you've got to have the physical size ... if you're gonna get three or four critical stops a game." (10:36)

  • Some tackling issues are fixable with technique, others require new personnel.
• Stresses the need to understand divisional rivals’ personnel, match up accordingly, and target the right characteristics in free agency and the draft.

4. Lessons from Other Teams & the Importance of the Draft

[13:29-14:20]

• Glenn Smith: Highlights how great teams like Seattle have excelled in the draft, turning rookies into instant contributors and managing the cap with a cheap QB: "John Schneider drafted his ass off. He hit with all of those picks. They all play." (13:29)

5. What’s a Realistic Goal? Division Titles and Beyond

[09:56,14:20-16:21]

• Smith grounds expectations:

  "The goal needs to be win the NFC East, get in the tournament ... They're ways from that." (09:56) "You better make four or five moves and they better be home runs ... not talking about a bunch of singles. I'm talking about hit it out of the park." (15:10)

6. Technique, Coaching, and the New Staff’s Role

[16:21-17:40]

• Landon McCool:
  • Stresses that success will require both smart personnel moves and excellent teaching by the new defensive staff:

    "It’s about correcting basic things and seeing if talent shines through once the technique is corrected."

• Smith: Even with additions (Pickens, Williams), offense may still need to score 28-30 per game due to defensive rebuild timeline.

7. Roster Moves & FA: The George Pickens Contract Situation

[22:04-31:16]

• Pickens’ Franchise Tag:
  • McCool explains most likely scenario is Pickens plays on franchise tag ($28.3 million), but a long-term deal would lower the immediate cap hit.
  • Negotiation dynamics: If Cowboys want to keep him and pay more than CeeDee Lamb, it's feasible through creative cap moves—even if it means future pain:

    "If Pickens ultimately wants to stay in Dallas and be paid more than CeeDee Lamb, they could sit down and work it out. It's certainly doable ... You only have a limited window with Dak anyways. So what are we holding back for at this point?" (26:18)

• Agent Leverage:
  • Smith: "He does not have the hammer right now ... You're either the hammer or the nail and he does not have the hammer." (28:01)

8. Max Crosby Trade Rumors – Dead on Arrival

[31:19-35:47]

• Discussion over renewed rumors of trading for Raiders’ Max Crosby.
• Landon McCool:
  • “Seattle offered two firsts, Vegas said no. I’m not interested in giving two first round picks and paying a 29 year old pass rusher $35 million a year ..."
  • The scheme fit, age, and price are all wrong for Dallas now.
• Smith: Would be “completely shocked” if it happened. “If it does, I may quit that day.” (34:23)

9. Jerry Jones' Surprising Introspection: "My Way Doesn't Work If I Don't Change"

[39:29-54:26]

• Jerry tells the Dallas Morning News:

  "My way of doing things doesn't work if I don't change." (39:29)

• McCool: Reflects on possible internal changes in Jerry—perhaps lessons from the Parsons contract saga, Schottenheimer’s offensive process, and the shift toward hiring unfamiliar names, showing openness to new ideas.
• Smith:
  • Defends Jerry as both a shrewd business mind and a boss who desperately wants to win:

    "He is a damn good guy to work for. And I promise you, he wants to win ... He gives you a number ... and he was not turning away from the fact that he had a handshake deal with Micah Parsons. So I don't believe that he ... regrets one thing that he did with Micah." (45:03)

10. What Separates Champions From the Rest? Culture, Leadership & Fear of Failure

[55:53-61:37]

• Emmitt Smith's critique & the championship era Cowboys:
  • Smith and Biggs note the past Cowboys’ “chip on the shoulder” mentality and alpha-male leaders.
  • Smith:

    "If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes ... those Hall of Fame guys had that burn in them ... that's what separates a guy in the HOF from just another guy. And when you have a group like that, that's what wins football games." (57:11-61:37)

  • Fears of failure, intense work ethic (Michael Irvin stories), and player-driven culture are key.

11. Does This Team Have the Right DNA?

[61:54-64:33]

• Landon McCool:
  • “It takes the right types of players in the building ... I think Dak is definitely one of those guys, but even though he’s the quarterback, he’s not enough. You need a lot more of those types of guys.”
• Both hosts agree: you can have a good culture, but culture alone doesn’t win with a 7-9-1 record. The right ‘DNA’—more than just talent—must be recruited and developed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Landon McCool (on defensive rebuild):

  “It’s going to be a very difficult needle to thread ... But I don’t think it will be impossible to get them to a point where they have a defense that’s competitive enough that, if the offense is good, it’s good enough.” (16:21)

• Glenn Smith (on personnel overhauls):

  “You better make four or five moves and they better be home runs. I'm not talking about a bunch of singles. I'm talking about hit it out of the park.” (15:10)

• Landon McCool (on negotiating with Pickens):

  “You only have a limited window with Dak anyways ... What are we holding back for at this point?” (26:18)

• Smith (on being the 'lead dog'):

  “If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes ... they may have been selfish in some ways, but they were selfless when it comes to putting it on the field.” (57:11)

• On Jerry Jones (by Smith):

  “He is a smart business guy ... but I don't think for one second he regrets one thing that he did with Micah. That’s just my belief.” (45:03)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:45] – Central Question: Can The Defense REALLY Be Fixed?
• [07:48] – Cap Room and Restructuring
• [09:56] – Defensive Physicality & Technique
• [13:29] – Lessons from Seattle’s Draft Success
• [14:20] – Realistic Goals: Win the Division First
• [16:21] – Coaching, Technique & the Role of Teachers
• [22:04] – George Pickens’ Franchise Tag Discussion
• [31:19] – Max Crosby Trade Rumors Addressed
• [39:29] – Jerry Jones Admits Need for Change
• [55:53] – Emmitt Smith, Team Leadership, and Championship DNA

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Takeaways

• Fixing the defense is possible but requires major, targeted moves (both personnel upgrades and better coaching/technique).
• The Cowboys’ cap flexibility is a real asset, if used wisely—simple restructures create significant spending room.
• Dallas must target not only talent but leadership and mentality (“lead dog DNA”), prioritizing competitiveness and accountability.
• Jerry Jones’ recent humility may signal a genuine openness to process changes—or, at minimum, the pressures of a prolonged championship drought.
• Winning franchises do more than just add stars; they cultivate the right mindset throughout the locker room.

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For listeners: If you’re craving a blend of realism, capology, culture analysis, and inside perspective on what really needs to happen for a Cowboys turnaround—this episode is a must-listen.

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This summary excludes all non-content advertisements and focuses exclusively on the discussion about the Dallas Cowboys and the NFL.

Transcript

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

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[Landon McCool]

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[Jeff Biggs]

I'm Jeff Biggs, host of the Cowboys Squad show and the big's question is can the Cowboys defense really be fixed?

[Landon McCool]

I'm Landon McCool with the Locked On Cowboys podcast and I cannot believe that we are under two weeks until the NFL combine.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Nice Glenn Stretch Smith and the super bowl hangover is officially over.

[Landon McCool]

How about them Cowboys? It's the Cowboy Squad. Everything Dallas Cowboys every week covering all the big hits and game changing plays from America's team the way only the Locked On Podcast network can get ready and squad up. It's the Cowboy Squad show starting now.

[Jeff Biggs]

You always have to squat up. That is the key for this show. The NFL off season is rolling as Coach said, the super bowl hangover is over and another edition of the Cowboys Squad show is on its way. We are grateful to be with you tonight. Thank you for tuning in. As always, we start with a welcome to one of the co hosts of the daily Lockdown Cowboys podcast. That would be Landon McCool. Landon, welcome back to you. Marcus will be back if he gets some sleep with the new edition on Monday. Aisha Morrison will be back with us next week as well and we have as always the great former Cowboys coach Glenn Stretch Smith. Good to see you as well Coach. So coming up on the show tonight, lots to get to even though it's quote unquote off season but we I.

[Landon McCool]

Got a lot of things I want.

[Jeff Biggs]

To run by you guys. We've got a new number one for George Pickens I'll tell you what that is more Max Crosby rumors. I thought that was kind of dead, but they're still out there. I'll tell you why. And a surprise admission from Jerry Jones, which kind of kind of took me by surprise. We'll see what you guys have to think about that. But we're going to start with this one tonight. And, Landon, I'll get you first and then coach, you can. You can follow up. But we talked about this on Monday, and kind of the theme of the show was, okay, Super Bowl 6 is over. What will it take for the Cowboys to get back to the Super Bowl? I know you and Marcus did a show on that, Landon. And so after we were done and over the last couple of days, I've been thinking about it. Okay, you know, what does that look like? Right?

[Landon McCool]

We.

[Jeff Biggs]

I think we all feel pretty good about the offense, and we've all said priority number one, fixing the defense. Right. They've done the coaching changes, the hires. That's good. We're excited about that. Can't wait to see what that develops into. But then, you know, I was thinking about something we've all discussed, and that is kind of the narrative that, well, pretty good on the D line, could use some help with linebacker. And if they can just get, you know, three, four, five defensive backs, then, you know, they'll be able to turn the secondary around. And. Okay, I'm. I'm with you there. But then I was thinking, you know, I was looking around at some of the DBs that were available, and I thought, okay, even if they get a couple of rookie DBs with their. Their first round picks now, number one, I mean, can you really bank on, you know, a couple rookies stepping in and leading a team to the Super Bowl? And if not, you know, if you're going to sign some free agents, is there enough that they can do to really get the defense to make a run to the Super Bowl? Can they really. I'm saying I'm keeping it real. I'm saying can they really, really not just say it, not just be optimistic, but can they really turn this defense around enough to make a Super bowl run? I mean, that was kind of the theme. Kind of the surprise theme of this postseason in the NFL was that all the teams that advanced all had really good defense. What do you guys think?

[Landon McCool]

Well, I would say there's a lot in there. I'll start with can mine gets going? Yeah, no, I get you. I'll start with can, you know, can you kind of rebuild this Defensive, A Super bowl caliber defense? I, I think so. I mean, I think, you know, there's, there's always this after super bowl time when we all kind of try to learn lessons from the super bowl and I feel like this is always a really dangerous time because I feel like people lean too far into that. I do think that there are lessons to learn from who wins the super bowl, but I also think there are times when we can kind of overvalue that. I think that you can rebuild the defense. It's going to be a very difficult task. I mean, I think he laid out for a lot of the reasons why it will be a very difficult task, you know, to kind of break it down a little bit further. Can you win a Super bowl with two rookie defensive backs? I think Christian Parker could tell you. Yes, that. Yeah, that he, and he has before and, and, you know, just not too recently with, with the Eagles. So I think that, I also think that the Cowboys have a lot more avenues to kind of fix the personnel side of this than just, than just the draft. They have the capability of trading. They have the free agent market, which I think that they're gonna, it sounds like they're gonna be maybe a little bit heavier on this year. We'll see. We'll maybe talk about that a little bit later in the show, but I think that the answer is yes. I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to do so, obviously, beyond the fact that only one out of the 32 teams can win the Super Bowl. But I think if you're, if you're talking about building the defense to a place where you feel like they have a good enough team at large to win the Super Bowl. Yeah, I do think that that's possible. Real quick, before coach gets in, I do want to also preface by saying that I think we should all be really careful just saying that the offense is good enough. I think that the, the, that the teams need to evolve every year. They need to. Things are going to change. The angles will change. So I don't, I, I do think that the Cowboys should lean very heavily towards fixing this defense with their off season resources, but I think it's also a mistake to completely rest on your laurels on the offensive side and think that, oh, it was great last year. We don't need to change a single thing. That's not really, you know, how this works.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

So what, what are your, what are your monetary resources? Because if you, if Pickens is in the picture, if Williams is in the picture, what, what are you really going to have. I mean, I mean you ain't gonna have much.

[Landon McCool]

Marcus and I just did a show yesterday where we showed that. Where that, where. Yeah, great plug Marcus. Marcus and I had literally did a show, I think it was yesterday, maybe came out today where we talked about you could flip four switches and have enough money to pay for Pickens on the, on. On the, on the. The franchise tag, pay for both second round tenders for both backup offensive linemen, pay for Williams and free agent defensive end. And I think because you have the capability. But someone put out a graphic today. The Cowboys have $133 million available to them in simple restructures. They are the number one team in the NFL in restructure. You know, capable money with simple.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Who they're gonna re. Who's getting restructured.

[Landon McCool]

You could by simply restructuring Dak, Prescott.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

And C and CD they better restructure that. That better be.

[Landon McCool]

Just by doing, just by doing that alone gets you over the cap or under the cap. If you do Quinn and Williams, I think it gives you another 10 to 12 million. These numbers certainly need to be checked, but I think the four players that we ended up restructuring were the two I just mentioned, CD and Dak, Quinn and Williams and I, I think maybe we, we did a, we did a resigning of Kenny Clark so you could push some of that 21 million out a little bit and you gain I think something like 10 if you could do that right there. There's certainly just a lot of these different triggers. Oh, so Diggy Zoo is another guy that you could pull a trigger on. I'm pretty sure you have, you have a decision to make with Terence Steele, but I have a feeling you could figure that out as well. There are lots of mechanisms to create a bunch of money and like I said, the Cowboys just with simple restructures are the number one team in the NFL with money that they can get reallocated into their cap by doing very simple things that they probably should do anyways.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Okay. So if that's been identified then I mean, I mean I would be fine with that. Now. Now you start talking about Super Bowl. I mean to me the goal needs to be win that when the NFC east get in the tournament. Because they're, they're, they're ways from that. Then you look at. And you look at some of the defenses I think that are really good in the NFL right now. Whether you say Houston, obviously Seattle, we could take the Chargers. Trying to think of who else.

[Landon McCool]

Rams. Rams have a pretty good Defense too.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yeah, but, but I'm saying all of those defenses to me are physical on the edges. And that means they, you, they've got, they've got safeties who will knock your ass off and they have corners who can play. Now I do believe I was talking to Tom Siskowski today. I believe the pendulum has, is starting to swing football goes back and forth with what the business looks like. Do they want, do they want smaller, faster corners who can cover, who can buzz their feet and get places, or do you want the physical guy? Now the league to me feels like it's you. You've got faster receivers, but you got to have bigger corners. You, I mean, that, you know, you got, obviously DK's, you know, is a freak. But I'm saying you've got to have the physical size if you're gonna, if you're gonna be the guy that says we're gonna go get three or four critical stops a game because the one thing the Cowboys couldn't do is tackle on the perimeter. Do I think some of that can be fixed with technique? I do. Do I think that some of it needs to be personnel? Hell yeah. But at the end of the day, you can fit. Some of it is fixable from a technique standpoint.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Now how are you going to go and address that this time? Right here in my mind, this, this, this kind of two week period leading into the combine is about identifying number one. What else? You should have an unbelievable feeling for the three teams that you play twice a year. You should have a great personnel feeling for the Giants, the Commanders and the Eagles. And so talking about that and getting yourself in position where you can go basically be better than they are from a personnel standpoint is something that you got to address. And then you have to address, okay, what, and how are we going to take a look at the characteristics of what Christian Parker and his staff want defensively? And then how are we going to go address that? Are those guys in free agency and I don't know, I haven't looked at it that close yet. Or are those guys in the draft? Are there guys draftable guys that can fit into this defense right now? If there's one thing, if you didn't get one other thing out of the super bowl, then you should get that. John Schneider drafted his ass off.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

He hit with all of those draft picks. They all play. That's one. And they got a quarterback that's getting it done for $34 million. So that, that, that now they can go address what you Got Walker, who's up in free agency. You got Shaheed, you got Job. I mean, they're going to have their issues, too. And you know, the teams are going to say, wait a minute, I got to go. I've got a chance here to sign the super bowl mvp. There's a chance I could go do that. Getting back to where the Cowboys are is identifying what and where you can go and address what your weaknesses are. And there's no question where their weaknesses are. There's also no question that they're way, way, way overspent on the offensive side of the football.

[Jeff Biggs]

And I want to say too, coach, I think we're, we're on the same page. When you said super bowl and winning the division, I'm with you. I mean, just overall having a winning season, making a run, and once you get in, I mean, the goal is to win it. And so I think with where this team and Dak and some of the others have been from, you know, the last several years, I think, you know, they don't need to kind of prove themselves. I mean, they do, but they don't, you know, they're not babies and there's no reason why they can't have a great season and a championship season and make their own run. So I'm with you, though. Same thing. And you know, it's getting, the, getting better over the course of the season and then, you know, getting hot at the right time and being healthy.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

San Francisco with the exact same issue mean the 49ers are dealing with the exact same issue. They got a high end quarterback, they got a high end running back, and they had to let, you know, Hanga her funga. They had to let him go, they had to let the linebacker go. You can't keep them all. And I think that's the position that really Dallas is in right now is can you get what you need to get defensively and still hold on to what you have offensively? And I, I'll be honest with you. I mean, I, I, I went from saying there's no way they could let, you know, a couple guys out of the building to saying, hey, you know what, you might have to completely rethink about where you're at on multiple guys because you are so deficient defensively from a linebacker standpoint and from a defensive back standpoint. You know, I think it can be fixed. But, but I think you better make four or five moves and they better be home runs. I'm not talking about no bunch single. I'm talking about hit it out of the park.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I, I think it's a multifaceted approach, too. Like. Like coach said, like, it's, It's. It's not just personnel. It's. It's technique. It's. That's why the coaching staff that was brought in was brought in. And, and that's a big part why I think they. They focused on teachers. Right. And. And teaching and technique. Right. Because I think it. It's about correcting very basic things and then seeing if. If talent shines through a little bit once the technique is corrected. So, yeah, I mean, I, I think it's. It's going to be a very difficult needle to thread. I, I don't think it will be impossible to get them to a point where they have a defense that's competitive enough that, that if the offense is good that, that, you know, it's good enough, I think, to get to a level where your defense is winning football games for you on a regular basis. That's a different question. That's a different standard, and that's going to be difficult to get to without making some sacrifices. I don't disagree.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

And I still think that if you go and spend the money on Pickens and you spend it on Javante, get ready, you're still going to have to score 28 to 20, 29, 30 a game to win because you just can't get. You just are not going to be able to make the strides defensively that I think you need to make, which is really. Would really have to be from a free agent standpoint.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I think. I honestly, I think, you know, there's a way to kind of shortcut this a little bit by bringing in a couple of guys that have experience with Parker. Like there is. There are a couple of those Eagles defenders that are available in free agency at positions that we have needs specifically, I'm thinking a blanket ship at safety. It just makes a lot of sense, right, to kind of bring in a guy like that. So I think there are things they can do to kind of help shortcut both sides of this solve from a personnel and from a scheme side. But yeah, it's. It's going to take a lot of really smart moves this offseason, and hopefully the Cowboys are savvy about this.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, well, I have another question about the defense, but we'll save that for later. When we come back, we're going to talk about the offense and the very latest with George Pickens. I'm not doing it on purpose, but we'll do that when we come back. This is the Cowboys squad show.

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[Landon McCool]

Yeah, it's George Pickens. GP no, he's a number one wide receiver. That's that they, I mean, again, these media companies always do this. NFL and ESPN always do this every year. They always include the, they do a free agent list before free the, the franchise tax get done so that they can double dip, right. So they can get you excited about the guys that are never going to make it to free agency and then the actual list once it comes out. Yeah, there's a lot of names on, on those lists that you're like, oh, well, this guy will be available. But there's, I mean, if you, you honestly could go through those lists at this point and look at the top 10 names, probably about half of them will not be available on free agency.

[Jeff Biggs]

Right. Well, so when you and you and Marcus were doing your show and you were talking about getting, and I, I confess I have not watched it yet, not talking about getting that cap money. What did you come, what was your, your number ultimately for Pickens when, when that was done?

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I mean, our assumption is that, is that, you know, he plays, if that the worst case scenario is that he plays on the franchise tag. I mean, and I mean that monetarily because I think if you sign him to a long term deal, it's a high likelihood that the first year number, the cap number will be reduced. Right. It'll be a smaller number just by the mechanics of how they usually manipulate that money. Right. So we, we estimated his number at, at the franchise tag number for wide receivers, which I think ended up being $28.3 million or something like that. All right, so, you know, a pretty hefty price. Certainly not the, you know, the price of what, whatever his eventual contract APY is going to be. But again, the APY is very different than the actual yearly cap hit, which can be manipulated and shifted around a lot.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I think what's interesting too is there are, there are going to be. There are a lot of teams that are looking for a wide receiver and a lot of pretty good teams, believe it or not, that, that are looking for a wide receiver. So that's going to, you know, that's going to, that's going to move the needle in that scenario as well. I mean, like I said, it'll be interesting to see like, can Seattle afford to keep Shaheed knowing they had made that trade for what feels like a happy year rental? Yeah. So there's, you know, there's needs across the board, like I said, for really good football teams who, you know, are going to be in the market and have that as, as, as one of their top needs is a wide receiver. I mean, we could sit here and go through it, but there are multiple teams whose top need is a wide receiver.

[Jeff Biggs]

Well, see, my, my only thing is, and coach, I'm not trying to bore you with this. We've already talked about it. But Landon, I mentioned this on Monday. My only thing is, look, I know the Cowboys, they have the final say with the tag, but again, looking at the other side, if you're Dickens agent, right, and you know where he kind of sits in the free agency mix, you're going to, you, you're going to feel like, hey, for him, he should be paid like the number one guy or number one wide receiver for sure. And I'm, I'm just trying to figure out how they can make that fit with what the Cowboys want to do and if they can find common ground and make it work where it's a win win for everybody, where the Cowboys are happy and Pickens is happy and feels like he got the deal that he wanted.

[Landon McCool]

I mean, are we talking, are we talking about the, a long term deal for Pickens or are we talking about.

[Jeff Biggs]

I mean, I'm just wondering, okay, if.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

They'Re not going to have any say if they put the franchise tag. I mean, what is there to negotiate?

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, there's no negotiating there.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

So it's like they put the franchise tag on him. Yeah, you put the franchise tag on him. I mean, that agent go over and stomp his feet till they turn red. What does it matter?

[Landon McCool]

I, I think, I think for the Cowboys, you know, I mean, if Jerry, they can make it work. Like, I mean, I just. Okay, it's, it's all like, I think that the salary cap is fungible as as Jerry said. And, and, and I, I really do believe that there's in the way that the, the, that kind of show that is like we just talked about in the first segment. They're negative. What is it like probably $40 million in the hole if you account for what they also like, like where they are currently. Plus, you know, accounting for pick ins, accounting for maybe guys that you definitely want to resign. They can get to +30 million just by pulling triggers in these contracts. Like, and then on top of that, all of these contracts were written with a lower salary cap in mind for than what the actual ended up projecting salary cap as it continues to explode every single year. So there's ways to do these things. It's, it's gonna. If, if Pickens ultimately wants to stay in Dallas and be paid more than CD Lamb, they would be able. They could sit down and work it out. Like, it's certainly doable to shift the money around in a way that, that works. You know, it could hurt. It could be hurt. It could hurt the Cowboys down the road. It could. You know, it might be short sighted, but you only have a limited window with Dak anyways and then you got to start this whole process over. So what, what are we holding back for at this point?

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah, okay. I, you know what? I. I hope I'm, you know, I hope I'm. It's a nothing burger and everybody lives happily ever after.

[Landon McCool]

I want to be clear. I don't, I don't think it's not a nothing burger. I just.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

At all. I just think that. I just don't think he had the leverage. Is not, is not with. You're either the hammer or the nail and he does not have the hammer right now.

[Landon McCool]

He's not Micah Parsons. You know, like, like that's the thing. Like he had a good year but you know, before this he was available for a third round pick and there was a reason for that. Right. And, and I. He had an incredible year and he's a number one in all these lists. And that's all that is. Absolutely true. But right now the salary cap is $28 million. So that's kind of your starting point of negotiation. Right? I think he's definitely, obviously going to get more than that in apy. But the truth of the matter is, is if he causes a huge ruckus in this contract negotiation, again, this is not Micah Parsons. This is a guy who. Whose value has already been devalued at some point for being Malka Tit or whatever you want to label it whatever he was labeled as, as go from coming from Pittsburgh. Right. It's not gonna, it's not gonna help his stock or his value if he kind of continues to show that. The thing that lifted his value so much is we all knew he was a talented player. It was that he was able to help hold it together this year and be mature and kind of live up to those expectations. I just think that it's in both parties best interest, more so than the Micah Parsons situation action. It's, it's, it's in both parties best interest to work out a long term deal because I think ultimately both sides want to be here. And, and I think that wasn't necessarily the case with Micah, which we found out.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

You don't think he wants to go back over there with McCarthy where the Ohio and the Monongahela and the Allegheny meet?

[Landon McCool]

I, I, I'm sure, I'm sure Marcus, you know, may protest half of the things you just suggested, but no, I, I think, I don't think anybody wants to go back to that.

[Jeff Biggs]

Can I just one thing and I'll, we'll let it go. I, I promise. I, I think it, for me, it's not, it's not the Cowboys, it's not even Pickens. I, I just, I, I know. I, I, I've never met his agent, Mulligetta, so I, I don't know what kind of guy he is, but I, I just think that he, for him and for Pickens and for his, his brand would want Pickens to be paid like a number one highest paid receiver in the class. And I guess.

[Landon McCool]

Why is that an issue though, Jeff? Like, I guess that's my issue is like I, I, I don't think that that's a problem. I, I think, you know, I, I think again, if he, that's what the expectation is like. He came out there and produced at a crazy, crazy high level. He functioned as the number one wide receiver for function for a lot of times. It's, Is it gonna hurt the Cowboys to pay him like that? Probably, it's probably not going to feel nice. But can they do it? Yes, they can absolutely do it if they want to.

[Jeff Biggs]

Okay. I just, I hope that he doesn't keep pushing it up his agent pushing it up and pushing it up and pushing it up until it gets like an unreachable or untenable number. You know, it's got to be something that they can live with.

[Landon McCool]

That's, you know, that's what negotiation is at this point. That's what it is.

[Jeff Biggs]

Absolutely. All right, well, so, so I was going to ask you about this. Looking around at these sites, I also saw one and I, like I said I thought it was kind of a done deal. But there's this, this one site that still lists the Cowboys as the favorites to land Max Crosby from the Raiders. And I was wondering what you guys thought about that. If that, if that's still alive, if that's still even a possibility in your minds and you know we're talking about the secondary. Could having somebody like Max, could that maybe hide some of the issues with your secondary? If you can get somebody that can really get pressure on the quarterback in a hurry.

[Landon McCool]

I, I think for me it's the latest I've heard is that apparently Seattle, I think it was offered him, offered Las Vegas two first round picks and Las Vegas said no. So that's kind of the end of the conversation for me. Like I'm not Interested in giving two first round picks and paying a 29 year old pass rusher 35 at least million dollars a year who's currently got a, an injury that he's rehabbing from if I'm not mistaken. Not that it's a major thing, but you know, my point being that like I was promoting when I, I thought it was a mid season trade for a guy that was, you know, for a first round, for first round pick straight up.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Right.

[Landon McCool]

I, I was on board with that because his contract at the time was, was doable and it felt like a good strong push. You know, the angles have changed quite a bit here, including you have a new defensive coordinator and, and maybe a different kind of, of front that opens you up to different types of pass rushers. I think in a situation where you were running a, a plane, you know, four, four attacking, seven droppings defense, you needed a, a guide a lot more like Max Crosby who could be a hand in his dirt, gonna get after it plays both sides of the ball really well and you know, is the right body type to fit that kind of role. I think now you can find, you know, more pass rushers with different body types. It opens things up, it sets you up nicely in the draft with this defense. Not that Max Crosby wouldn't be an incredible addition. I just think that the, the need for that specific body type is, is no longer necessarily there. The, the angles economically have changed and the price is is way. It's just not what we thought it was. We thought it was a first round pick. If they're saying no to a two first round picks. I've heard that they want more than the Micah Parsons deal for. For him. That's absolutely outrageous and ridiculous, and I would not even go anywhere near them if they were. If they're talking like that.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah, they won't get that either, by the way, from anybody.

[Landon McCool]

What do you think?

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I mean, I, you know, this is just kind of a. One of those issues to me that, you know, we got somebody that's putting out there because he's from the Metroplex. Well, you know, I, I just. I don't. I don't see it as a fit. I, I didn't see him as a fit. I think from what I understand about this defense and what I've seen, I mean, you know, that guy's going to be dropping into coverage. Some think you pay that guy that kind of money to go say, okay, look, I want you to play this curl flat combination here. I just, I don't think it's. I mean, again, it's the offseason and we've got to have things to discuss, kick around just like everybody else does. But I don't even. I do not. If this happens, I would be completely shocked. And if it does happen, I, I may quit that day. I might just.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I mean, like, that's the thing, right? I. I think. I think it made more sense at one time. And so now that the conversation is coming back around, everyone's just talking about the Cowboys because they were part of the conversation earlier. But the angles of. Even though the Cowboys defense is not any more talented necessarily than they were when we were talking about this before, the angles have really, really changed on. On the situation, and it just doesn't make any sense at all. And it really only made some sense then.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Right?

[Landon McCool]

So now it's. Yeah, it's just not a good fit at all.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

And if, in fact, that's what they're expecting in return, is mic a value? I mean, you know, I, I'd go out there, I'd go out there and tell them to pound, pound on that sand a little bit.

[Landon McCool]

It's delusional. It's delusional.

[Jeff Biggs]

Could be Micah. I'm sorry, Max's camp hoping to speak it into existence.

[Landon McCool]

Well, it would be Vegas, right? I mean, Vegas is the one who's hoping that. That they get that kind of haul. I mean. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Talking about Viva.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I'm all Viva, baby. Bright light city gonna set my soul, you know, set my soul on fire. Coach. There you go.

[Jeff Biggs]

There you go.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

A little Elvis in you. I like it. Cut that beer down and grow those mutton chops out. I'll vote on you.

[Landon McCool]

I don't know if I got the hips for that coach.

[Jeff Biggs]

Well, Jerry Jones hasn't talked a lot this off season, but you won't believe what he said. We'll tell you what that is when we come back. This is the Cowboys squad show.

[Landon McCool]

To.

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[Jeff Biggs]

But first, we want to tell you about FanDuel because the winter Games are officially here and if you are anything like us, you're locking in, no pun intended, for events you only get to see on the biggest stage every four years. And that's why following the Winter Games on FanDuel just makes sense. From medal counts to individual events to finding your angle on the sports you care about most, FanDuel gives you more ways to stay connected to to the action. Now the drama of curling, okay, right? I mean, the start, the slow somehow get intense fast. How about the speed skating races decided by inches hockey games that feel different right from the opening face Off? Even niche events become must watch when you're fully locked in to the competition. FanDuel keeps the entire Olympic experience engaging from start to finish. So the Winter Games are on. There's no better way to follow them with FanDuel than with FanDuel. FanDuel, play your game. Great to be with you here on the Cowboys squad show. That's former Cowboys coach Glenn Stretch Smith and the co host of the daily Lock on Cowboys podcast, Landon McCool. Aisha and Marcus will be back with us on Monday. So, guys, we haven't heard a lot from Jerry Jones except the surprising quote that he gave the Dallas Morning News in context. Just talking about kind of where things are and the hiring of their defensive coordinator. And he said, quote, my way of doing things doesn't work if I don't change. And so really what you take away from the whole the whole article was some Jerry humility sounds to me like a man realizes that, you know, we're kind of in the 11 o' clock hour here and it's time to Win again.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I mean, look, I think Jerry is a very accomplished human being at times and acts that way at times. And I think there are other times when he, you know, is just. He realizes that that is the way his way is not working. Right. Like, and, and that he's, he's. I think he's more introspective than people give him credit for at times. I do think that there are lots of periods where he can get, you know, wrong headed and big and big headed and not want to change his mind, but I, I don't think that that's most times. I think most times he likes to build consensus, he likes to get opinions. And I think he's gotten into trouble doing that before. Right. Like, I think, you know, there is a case where maybe sometimes the last voice to get to Jerry is the, the voice that he kind of reacts to. But I think, yeah, I think he has seen, you know, he, he's getting older. I think he sees his own mortality to a certain degree. There's quest. These questions are going to come up every single year, you know, as he gets older. And I think, you know, it's always a good time to kind of be a little bit introspective and where you are in this process. And I think one thing that has, you know, really come two things really that have come up, the Micah Parsons situation and the criticism he received and probably just being introspective in the way that that relationship fell apart because I still to this day honestly believe that those two people had a strong personal relationship and that they had a falling out that let their, you know, money get mad. And that's ultimately why this whole situation happened the way it did. And then I think that, that in kind of looking back at that, I think that, you know, Jerry has kind of recognized that maybe that wasn't the best way to handle this or maybe I don't like the way that the, the, the Cowboys, you know, fandom reacted to the, that whole situation. And, and, and he's, you know, kind of try to do something about it. There's also the kind of more cynical way to look at this, which is that, you know, Jerry looks at what he did, realizes that he made a mistake, and is still trying to put in efforts to make it look like this wasn't a mistake by, you know, hey, this is still money that we, that could have been Micah money, but now we're using it for free agency. You know, those kind of conversations which, which to, to some degree is true, but you know, at the end of the day, it's about the actions that he puts in. Right. I think, I think that, that, that he's, you know, spoken kind of like this before, but we're gonna see where his money gets spent. Oh, and that's what the thing I was gonna mention. I think the other thing that may have changed him a little bit is seeing seating his pro there, the front offices, offensive hiring, and watching Schottenheimer's process and maybe realizing that there, there's other ways to do this, that that might be kind of better ways to do this and actually being open to new processes and you know, and just the kind of influence that have come into the building the last year because the Cowboys have done more hiring of, of unfamiliar names. So I think Jerry's been through a lot this year and, and I don't think it's, it's shocking that he's kind of speaking like this.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

And your point is that he's, you think he's pointing to those issues and that's why he's making that statement. You think he's pointing to, well, I let this guy come in here and make his calls or I wish I would have paid Micah. You're saying that that's what you think? I think.

[Landon McCool]

I think the Micah situation changed him. I'm not sure if it changed him in a like defiant, I'm still trying to prove that I'm right way or if it's a, you know what, maybe I didn't handle that situation the best way. Maybe I should like be it. Be more self examining. And then I think that the Schottenheimer thing, it was more just watching that have a success like kind of play out the way it did and them trying something different and, and it being a little successful and realizing, you know, maybe I should open up a little bit and, and kind of my tolerance for processes that I'm unfamiliar with.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

So I guess what I'm saying is you're, you're given a lot of credit to Schottenheimer for this last season is. Am I understanding that right?

[Landon McCool]

I'm giving Schottenheimer credit for a, I think a successful collection of offensive coaches and, and, and the way that the offense came together in a season where he was also being a first year head coach. Yeah, I think that there's, there's, there's some success there.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yeah, I'm gonna, I mean, I'm gonna say this. I mean, I'm gonna. And I'm, and you know, it's like, I feel like we do. We talk about this scenario a lot. You know, I was in that building for nine years. There were a lot of conversations, one on one conversations that I had with Jerry Jones. Jerry Jones is smart as. And I'm telling you, he is a smart business guy. Does he at times get influenced by maybe the wrong voice?

[Landon McCool]

Yeah.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yes. Does he at times want to be considered as a great football mind as I, I think he does. But I don't think for one second that he regrets one thing that he did with Micah. That's just my, that's just my belief, because I think that's how Jerry does business, is he. He gives you a number and he went in with that. And he was not, he was not turning away from the fact that he felt like he had a handshake deal with Micah Parsons. So I don't believe that he. And this is just my feeling, I don't believe that he looks at that scenario at all and says anything except, hey, I. You know what I did what I felt like was best for this organization. When it comes to what I think the offensive staff did, I really believe that what Schottenheimer did was he had. He put a lot of trust in Clayton Adams, and I think that worked out. I think what you saw them do this year, from a protection standpoint, again, I don't like to get in and start talking X's and O's and talking down because it feels like I'm talking down. I'm not the, the, the throwing the football. I don't want to hear about these deep routes and any of that. Throwing the football starts with protection. You must protect the quarterback. I don't give a damn at what level you're talking about. That's number one. So what I saw him do this year with some things as far as pulling the center and the guard out of the core of the protection to be able to do some different things told me one thing. And what told me another thing was Dak stayed upright all year, okay? So I'm giving the credit if I have to give credit. I'm. I'm saying, hey, they did the right thing with how he went about hiring him. Am I here to say, I mean, that he's some sort of coach? They were 500 football team.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

He could have corrected. He, he being the head coach, could have corrected the defense about week three or four. They weren't worth a tinker's ass day one. And so how long did I, you know, how long did you need to see that before before you, you know, before I'm going to give a bunch of credit to making a bunch of corrections. I'm going to go back to this, though. You can say a lot of different things about Jerry Jones if you want to you, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I'm gonna tell you something. He is a damn good guy to work for. And I promise you, I promise you, he wants to win. Does he go down and get off of the beaten path and yeah, Abs, absolutely he does. And maybe he's realizing, and I would bet you that's what he's saying is there are times I let something influence me or someone say something that influenced me. And I think that's much more what he's going at when he makes that comment. Instead of, you know, a particular situation or a particular negotiation or a particular, hey, I decided to do this and change my mind and did that.

[Landon McCool]

Let me be clear too, because I, I, I, I, I, I don't think that, I don't know, like, like, I, I don't think that it's necessarily that he felt like he regrets the negotiation of Michael Parsons. I, that could be it. But I, but you, you certainly make very strong points. He is certainly the kind of person that, you know, would have set that hard set rule. And, and you're absolutely right in the sense that he gave a number that didn't. That was the end of the conversation. So I, I, I think at that.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Time, didn't, I'm sorry, but Landon, at that time, didn't that make him the highest paid defensive player?

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, yeah.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I mean, okay, I'm talking about the number he gave him would have made him last a guy. Right.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah. I'm not pushing back on, on the way Jerry handed.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

No, no, I'm not saying you are. It's just open conversation here.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I'm just saying that at the end of the day, the point is, keep in mind, Jerry's a business guy. 1 and he went in, he went at him, said, I'm gonna make you the highest paid defensive guy. The guy shook his hand and guess what? Then he decided, whoa. You know, he started hollering like he was training horses. Whoa, whoa. Yeah, I need to have my agent involved here. Well, Jerry was like, hell, no, it ain't no.

[Landon McCool]

Whoa. It's, yeah, we've been talking about this. Yeah, Listen, to be clear, what we're talking about, what is about, like, why what I thought may have changed him and what I thought may have changed his tune and, and he is singing a different tune. And I would also point out that the, the process of hiring the defensive coordinators and, and the staff, that was the Schottenheimer process. So he did like feel like that they're at least going that direction or leaning into that kind of mythology. I think the thing that, I think could equally be the thing that kind of is the catalyst of change for him is not that he regrets the Parsons negotiation, but maybe he didn't like the reaction that was given to him by the Cowboys nation and by how everyone treated him after like, I mean, like think about like the, how he got roasted at the, at the, the ESPN Awards right on stage and it's like, I, I agree with you. I, I, I, I don't think he thinks he made a mistake because the, for all the things you just laid out, how, it's hard to argue that he made a huge mistake. He, he negotiated and then kind of had a situation where, you know, there's a he said, she said aspect of this. But, but Micah Parsons has his hand into this as well, obviously. So I don't know what it is, but I think it's, I also think that it changed him. I don't know. And what, what aspect of it or what about it that affected him, but to me it's hard to like kind of listen to the way he's talking now and listening the way he used to talk and not think that, you know, he's kind of, I don't want to say grown because he's an 80 plus year old man, but you know, changed at least the way that he's, he thinks about this a little bit. And maybe you're right, Coach, maybe it's, it's more about like, you know, I need to ignore these voices that are, are not helpful that are in my ear.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

And I can promise you if you, if, if you think he, he, that, that didn't affect him one single bit, what they said at the NFL line, I guarantee you he is, he is, he is tough as a wood hauler's rear end and they crap splinters. So that's very tough. And it ain't, it ain't going to affect him one bit. I promise you.

[Landon McCool]

Tough people still care what other people think about them though. And Jerry Jones definitely cares about what people think about him.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I'm telling you right now, he doesn't. But.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, well, I would think too, I mean, take a step back and I would think when you're in his shoes, try to think as much as you can, but you come into the League, and you have, you know, one of the great dynasties of all time, and then to follow that with a 30 year drought, I mean, that. That's. It's tough. I mean, you know, that's tough to kind of reconcile. And, And I'm sure he probably has moments where, especially during super bowl week, where maybe he, you know, is kind of reminded of that, like, man, you know, been a while and.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, and I think he, you know, I do think that, you know, I do think when you look at how Jerry, you know, how he went through that process, he wanted a little credit when it was Jimmy getting it done. I mean, that's, that's, that's what he wanted. He wanted credit for saying, I turned both of my suit pockets inside out, emptied everything I had, mortgaged everything I had to spend $150 million to buy the Cowboys. And really, at that time, really what he wanted was an attaboy, atta boy.

[Landon McCool]

That's exactly what I was just saying, Coach. Like, that he cares about what other people think. What do you think credit is? Credit is getting atta boys from other people. So to me, this plays right into what I'm saying.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it matters who it's coming from or that it's coming from just anybody?

[Landon McCool]

I think it matters to him for sure. Yeah.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, well, we'll leave it at that.

[Landon McCool]

That's a lot of time in front of cameras for someone who doesn't care about what people think about it.

[Jeff Biggs]

And, you know, I was thinking, too, it could be just a case of maybe he wanted to have maybe a veteran defensive coach come in and kind of go down that road. And he ultimately let more let shotty go with Christian Parker.

[Landon McCool]

And that's what I'm saying. Like, that's, that's the change. Like, you know, the, the understanding, the process. And maybe that's, you know, again, like, there's other things there, too. But part of that change is. Is like recognizing, hey, there's another process that we should try. Let's do this.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yeah.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, final timeout, final segment. We'll talk about 30 years ago, and also, a former Cowboy has a theory about why Trayvon Diggs is no longer a Cowboy. We'll get into that when we come back. This is the Cowboys squad show.

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[Jeff Biggs]

All right, welcome back, Cowboy squad show coach Glenn Stretch Smith and Landon McCool. Final segment here. Coach, you were around Emmett Smith and he's been, you know, one thing I love about Emmett, he, he talks and he doesn't hold back and it's refreshing and it's good to hear. And so he did a radio interview recently and paraphrasing, you know, he's, he's not, not holding back on kind of giving the Cowboys a little nudge for their, their super bowl drought. And, you know, I was thinking about that, that, you know what, maybe, you know, maybe that kind of we, you know, us against them, we're going to tune out the outside noise. Maybe, you know, maybe if some of the Cowboy players get a little angry at some of that kind of criticism, I know it's not all this group's fault, but, you know, maybe something like that might be, might be good, might be good to have a little, you know, a little chip on your shoulder and go into the season like, okay, they're calling us out. They think, you know, we, we haven't got it done this and that, and let's go prove them wrong. I'm okay with that is what I'm trying to say. I don't mind a little anything that kind of can kind of get the ball rolling and get that, get that edge that you need to win. I'm in favor of.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I mean, that, that team was full of guys like that, though. You think Michael is not very outspoken in, in certain ways. You think Amman is not outspoken in his way, Daryl Johnston in his way. I mean, they were all, you know, there it was, it was, you know, different guys from different backgrounds and they, they all had that same, What I say is an Alpha trait, an alpha male trait, a leading, you know, we'll lead the pack. If you're, you know, that's, I guarantee you, if you ask them that, they would all tell you, you know, the same thing. If you're not the lead dog, the, the view never changes. It never changes. That means you're looking at somebody else's ass. For all the simpletons out there, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. And I think all of them, every one of them feel that way. I know they do. Because I. I saw it. I saw how. You know, and Larry Allen never said a word. He led with his helmet and his shoulder pads. That's how he led. I mean, Eric Williams was, I'm telling you, would knock your yang. I mean, you know, so we had. And then you had, you know, the guys that were the voices in the room, you know, whether that was Michael or Emmett or, you know, and then you had the Woodsons, who didn't say a lot, and just, you know, same thing. Tolbert. I could go through all of those guys, Haley. I mean, you. You look at all of them, and you think they all had. They led in different ways, but they all had that certain characteristic. I can't speak for the football team over there now, because I don't think you. You know, I don't think any of us know. I mean, you. You don't know until you go, you know, until you shut that door in that meeting room. And I mean, I. I remember, you know, the. The sign read, check your ego at the door. And I. And I think that's. You know, you had a team of guys that was. You know, they were. They. They may have been selfish in some ways, but they were selfless when it comes to putting it on the field. And I think, you know, that's obviously a characteristic that everybody wants. You hear about Seattle right now, and you read about, you know, you look at the. At the characteristics that Sam Darnold distributed. I mean, it's his fifth team that he's been with. Never been done before a guy been with 5 teams and won a Super bowl. And, you know, so when you can get it to come together, that's what happens. And, you know, you hear guys talk about it all the time, and. And. And you hear guys say, well, we got to change the culture. We got to do that. I think it comes from within, and I think it comes from the guys that are in the building. And. And either you have that. And you have that burning desire to. To succeed, or you don't. And this is the last thing I'll say. I mean, the one thing that I'll tell you about Michael Urban. Michael Urban has a tremendous fear of failure. It burns in him like nothing I've ever seen. And I watched him in June and July, the hottest period that it was a blast furnace out there at. When we'd go out at Valley Ranch and a lot of guys were taking vacations, some guys were all. He would go out there, and he would get in full gear, helmet, shoulder pads, the whole nine. And he would strap that thing around his waist and he would. He would drag that sled. And I. I can remember him telling me, stretch, I'm gonna drag this sled till it won't go another foot. And I'm gonna tell you now, could push his body because he had a fear of failure. And I think, you know, that. That. That's what makes. That's really a. And all I'm going on is, you know, being around those guys that are now in the hall of Fame, that's what separates a guy in the hall of Fame from just another guy. And, you know, when you have a group of guys like that, I mean, think about that. Those guys that are hall of Famers, Emmett, Michael, Troy, I mean, you know, they had. They had that burn in them, and, you know, that's why. And that really is. At the end of the day, that's what wins football games for you.

[Jeff Biggs]

Amen. Well said. Well, hey, anything. Anything, you know, anything we can do to get that vibe going again. That's why. That's all I'm trying to say. Whatever it takes, if it takes. Criticism takes, you know, it takes players.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

Yeah.

[Landon McCool]

Like coach said. He mentioned a bunch of names, you know, not. Not. Not Jimmy Johnson, who. I. Listen, I think Jimmy was incredible. But, I mean, Jimmy wouldn't have done it, like, without the players, without the right types of guys. I hate to use that Garrettism, but. Yeah, like, the right types of people in. In the locker room that had that kind of mentality. So, yeah, I think that's the key right now, especially on the defensive side, is going out and finding the right kind of people to match that mentality. And I think. I mean, Coach, you know, you pointed it out like the. I mean, we talked this segment about talking about Trayvon Diggs, right. And Diggs definitely was not one of those guys, you know, like. And. And, you know, I think Micah certainly, like, put a lot of that in question with the. The stupid stuff in the preseason and all that, and certainly put it. Put that question in the hearts of the people that were, you know, attempting to sign checks for him. So, yeah, I agree. I think. But I think it takes the right types of players in the building. And so I think Dak is definitely one of those guys, but that even though he's the quarterback, even though he's a leader, he's not enough. You need a lot more of those guys in your locker room.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah, and I completely agree, Landon. I think maybe a better way for me to articulate what I'm saying is that. Okay, yeah, the culture was great. I mean it was better under shotty last year, but at the end of the day it was a seven, nine and one season. So that's not, I mean it can be good, but that's not good enough. That, that culture of seven, nine and one won't, that's not, that's not going to cut it. You gotta, gotta do better.

[Glenn Stretch Smith]

I mean the blueprints out there, I, you know, it, there's no secret to it. But now how do you go and, and feel like that you've got every one of those guys DNA and you, you can match it together because, because that's, that's really what it is. It's either, it's either something that's in you and it burns in you or you know, you're, you're, you're playing professional football for a living. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not just, it's just. Not everybody has that. Not, not everybody has it. And I can sit here and tell you, I mean I could tell you 15 stories and it was, you know, it was because all of those guys had that certain, they had that certain DNA in them.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, coach, thank you. Great, great insight tonight. Thank you for sharing that with us. Landon, before we go, really quick, what do you and Marcus have coming up on the daily Lockdown Cowboys podcast?

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, we're doing some more draft. We've been doing draft previews, we've been going down doing prospects. So we got another trio coming out before the end of the week and then we're going to do a couple more trios next week.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right. Appreciate you brother. Enjoy the weekend and have a great week. We'll talk to you again next Thursday. Check out Marcus and Landon for the coach. We'll be back with you on Monday night. This has been the Cowboys squad show. Tax season doesn't have to take over.

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