COWBOYS SQUAD SHOW: Lots of questions before the Cowboys home finale vs. the Chargers.

Summary

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Locked On Cowboys: "Squad Show" — Lots of Questions Before the Cowboys’ Home Finale vs. the Chargers

Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Jeff Biggs (host), Marcus Mosher, Landon McCool (Locked On Cowboys), Glenn ‘Stretch’ Smith (former Cowboys coach)
Main Theme:
A deep-dive autopsy of the Dallas Cowboys’ late-season collapse, with almost clinical focus on failures in coaching, defense, draft strategy, and the future of key players as the team faces its home finale against the Chargers.

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Episode Overview

The Locked On Cowboys crew dissect the Cowboys’ downturn after back-to-back losses erased playoff hopes, focusing on what went wrong defensively, the uncertain fate of DC Matt Eberflus, misalignment between the front office and coaching, and the difficult balance between evaluation and “culture” in meaningless end-of-season games. The show closes with thoughts on player development, possible departures (notably Trayvon Diggs), and a preview of the showdown with the Chargers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Did the Cowboys Collapse?

[03:59–07:05]

• Marcus Mosher: The recent streak was deceptive—the Cowboys beat “brand name” teams in offensive slumps (Raiders, Eagles, Chiefs) and “inflated expectations artificially.” Defensive flaws were always present, especially in the secondary.
• Landon McCool: Defense regressed to its true level. Slight improvements post-trade deadline, but the sheer deficiency in both run and pass defense couldn’t be masked for long.
• Glenn Smith: The defense’s continual problems (poor leverage, head/hand placement, lack of technique) are a coaching failure.

  “It’s a defense that plays with terrible technique ... this far into the season, continuing to talk about the same things ... either the message is wrong, or the messenger is wrong.” — Glenn Smith [07:07]

• Mosher: Statistically, opposing QBs “look like MVPs every week” against Dallas:

  “The Cowboys are allowing a passer rating of 109.1. That basically means you’re playing against the NFL MVP every single week.” — Marcus Mosher [08:57]

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2. Expectation vs. Reality: Playing Up or Down to Opponents

[09:41–11:48]

• Jeff Biggs: Disappointed by lack of energy after the Lions’ loss; expected a bounce-back.
• Landon McCool: Offense did plenty, but kicking field goals not touchdowns killed momentum. Defense let a rookie (J.J. McCarthy) look far better than he was.

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3. The Defensive Coordinator Problem (Matt Eberflus on the Hot Seat)

[11:48–19:32]

• Jones Comments: Jerry Jones himself acknowledged the trend of “struggling” QBs having their best games against Dallas.
• Glenn Smith: “We’re beating a dead horse.” Change is overdue; coaching is simply insufficient.
• Landon McCool: Has lost faith in retaining Eberflus:

  “I don’t feel like I ever saw enough positive ... even just a crumb or something to hold on to.” — Landon McCool [12:59]

• General Consensus: Staff changes are inevitable; no foundational elements (“nothing to build on”) exist defensively.
• Mosher: Warns not to be fooled by decent showings against depleted teams in final games.

  “I just don’t want them to go out there and have decent days and think that they’re suddenly turning the corner, because you’re just playing three teams that are really beat up right now.” — Marcus Mosher [16:00]

• Landon: Emphasizes that effort/energy drop-offs could trigger an early firing.

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4. Front Office vs. Coaching: Roster Building and Draft Disconnects

[22:55–38:23]

• Mosher: Major question is whether the next DC gets to hire his own staff, or whether the Joneses will force preferred position coaches, leading to continued meshing issues.
• Smith: Dallas forced man-cornerbacks into zone roles—no synergy in personnel for the current DC’s scheme.
• Landon: “Eberflus should have said something” in draft meetings if picks didn’t fit his style.
• Mosher: Calls out a longstanding Cowboys pattern of front office imposing draft priorities without enough coordinator input:

  “There’s absolutely no way Dan Quinn would have ever drafted [some of these players]... you spend a first round pick on him because Will McClay in the front office likes him. And now we blame Dan Quinn for not knowing how to use that player.” — Marcus Mosher [32:16]

• Will McClay Discussion: Universally respected, but his “glue guy” role between scouting/coaching is now under scrutiny as communication clearly faltered.

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5. Building or Breaking the Culture: Who Plays in the Final Games?

[50:15–59:12]

• Twitter Q: Should Dallas play starters ("culture") or tank/evaluate youth?
• Mosher: Winning culture is valuable but wonders about balancing that vs. evaluating younger players.
• Glenn Smith:

  “Go challenge your guys that you need to see something from and go put them in these situations ... I’m for putting guys in the game that need to have playing time.” — Glenn Smith [52:43]
  (wants the preseason-roster approach—"see what you have")

• Landon: Predicts the usual NFL "wink-wink" approach: claim nicked-up starters are resting for minor ailments, giving reps to backups without “saying the quiet part out loud.”

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6. George Pickens “Discourse” and Offensive Focus

[43:07–47:31]

• Fan Narrative: Cowboys fans/observers worried about George Pickens’ “quiet” games.
• Mosher: Dismisses as non-issue; offense is productive, Pickens draws attention/openings for others, all top receivers can't eat every single week.

  “If the offense is operating and he’s creating attention away from the other players and they’re able to produce ... I don’t think George Pickens producing a ton of numbers is high on my list of things to complain about.” — Landon McCool [45:29]

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7. Trayvon Diggs’ Future

[60:02–61:48]

• Jeff/Landon: “Do you think [Trayvon] Diggs will play again?”
• Landon: “He’s not playing for the Cowboys ever again.”
• Mosher: Agrees—he’d be “shocked” if Diggs ever appeared in a Dallas uniform, citing health and trust as factors.
• Smith: Lack of faith due to recurring injury—"I don't think he ever puts on the Cowboys helmet again."

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8. Chargers Game Preview

[61:48–63:20]

• Landon: Warns that “beating up on the Chiefs” is no longer a brag-worthy feat—Chargers will be tough and physical.
• Mosher: Expects a “27–24 type of game,” Chargers have no tackles but play hard.
• Smith: “If you don’t come ready ... your ass is taped up ... you’re going to get crap knocked out of you.”
• Landon: Wouldn’t be shocked if Herbert gets hit a ton but posts big numbers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Glenn Smith [07:07]:
  “I could take 11 damn tin soldiers, line them up, and they’d at least play with correct leverage. Are they going to get beat? Absolutely. But what I don’t like is ... talking about the same things that should have been corrected in week one of OTAs.”
• Marcus Mosher [08:57]:
  “You are playing against the NFL MVP every single week. That’s the kind of performance you’re giving up ... it’s unbelievable how bad they’ve been on that side of the ball.”
• Landon McCool [12:59]:
  “I don’t feel like I ever saw enough positive ... even just a crumb or something to hold on to.”
• Marcus Mosher [32:16]:
  “It’s why it’s hard to build a consistent defense—because you’ve got a front office that likes to draft guys they like, not necessarily who fit the scheme.”
• Glenn Smith [52:43]:
  “Go challenge your guys that you need to see something from and go put them in these situations ... put guys in the game that need to have playing time.”
• Landon McCool [60:33]:
  “Trayvon Diggs is not playing for the Cowboys ever again. I’m just going to go ahead and say that.”
• Glenn Smith [63:03]:
  “If you don’t come ready and you don’t get your mouthpiece molded and your ass taped up ... you’re going to get crap knocked out of you.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:59 — Why the Cowboys collapsed: Defensive regression, false sense of progress
• 07:07 — Defensive technique and coaching failures (Smith’s “tin soldiers” analogy)
• 12:59 — Landon: “Indefensible” to keep Eberflus as DC
• 16:00 — Mosher: “Don’t be fooled by easy games in final weeks”
• 22:55–24:10 — Staffing, forced assistants, and Cowboys’ patterns
• 32:16 — Draft disconnect: Will McClay, front office, and DCs
• 43:24–47:31 — George Pickens critique: Overblown non-issue
• 52:43–59:12 — Playing backups, evaluating youth vs. maintaining culture
• 60:02–61:48 — Trayvon Diggs’ likely departure
• 61:48–63:20 — Chargers game preview: "Get your mouthpiece molded"
• 63:25 — Cowboys podcast preview: Looking at long-term players

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Episode Tone & Style

• Direct, unvarnished, and often darkly humorous: The panel doesn’t sugarcoat—frustration and fatigue with the Cowboys’ all-too-familiar dysfunction is evident in both complaints and gallows humor.
• Analytical but accessible: Explains technical flaws (like leverage, technique), but always circles back to practical consequences and what lay fans will care about.
• Candid and at times critical of Cowboys’ leadership: No punches pulled about ownership, the front office, or the failures at DC.

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Essential Takeaways

• Collapse was never a surprise: Defensive improvement was an illusion created by facing weak or slumping offenses. Major coaching and technique failures were never solved.
• Eberflus likely finished as DC: Hosts see “nothing to build on.” Even minimal end-of-season improvement vs. weak offenses shouldn’t change minds.
• Communications and personnel process are broken: Major disconnects between front office, draft team, and coaching staff.
• Rest of season is for auditioning young players: Starters should “develop ailments,” youth should be auditioned, but never say “tanking” out loud.
• Trayvon Diggs era is likely over: All hosts agree the team is moving on and trust is broken.
• Chargers matchup is a physical test with little on the line for Dallas.

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Transcript

[Landon McCool]

It's the Locked on podcast network your team every day.

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[Jeff Biggs]

The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, roles, sacrifices.

[Landon McCool]

Life's a focus. This is where i50 everything you got all damn day. The attention to detail is like none other.

[Marcus Moser]

Keep physical, keep playing. We are the winners. Tlane takes on Ole Miss, followed by.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

James Madison in Oregon.

[Marcus Moser]

It's time to bring it round Coverage of the College Football Playoff presented by.

[Landon McCool]

Allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.

[Jeff Biggs]

Max, are you ready?

[Marcus Moser]

Let's go.

[Jeff Biggs]

I'm Jeff Bigs, host of the Cowboys Squad show and The Cowboys are 6, 7 and 1 and this is not a lot of fun.

[Marcus Moser]

I'm Marcus Moer and it's draft season.

[Landon McCool]

I'm Lana McCool and I'm frankly just really distracted by the 67 reference. That was done early. I can't believe it.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Glenn Stretched myth. And just the whole thought of that makes my butt itch.

[Marcus Moser]

How about them Cowboys? It's the Cowboy Squad. Everything. Dallas Cowboys every week covering all the big hits and game changing plays from America's team the way only the Locked on podcast network can get ready and squad up. It's the Cowboy Squad show starting now.

[Jeff Biggs]

Landon, it was you that inspired.

[Landon McCool]

Hey listen, I. I'm more mad that it wasn't me who said it than anything else to be honest.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah, if they would have won, it would have changed. I would have preferred they would have won, but anyway, welcome to another edition of the Cowboy Squad show and after three straight wins, the Cowboys crashed with back to back losses and they are now on the brink of elimination officially as they get set to play their home finale on Sunday against the Bolts. Although they could find out on Saturday that they have been eliminated. We'll find out. As always, today's episode is brought to you by fanduel. If you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit FanDuel.com and place your NFL Live bets all season long. As always on this 10 days until Christmas or a week. I'm sorry, almost a week. We're getting Close either way today, right? Yeah, that's right. There we go as we start with a welcome to the co hosts of the daily Lockdown Cowboys podcast, Marcus Mosher and Landon McCool along with the coach, former Cowboys coach Glenn Stretch Smith. Great to be with you guys again, which was after an important win, kind of changed things a lot. But here we are. Coming up on the show tonight, we're going to talk about the very latest with the Cowboys on and off the field. As I said, must win again on Sunday against the Chargers. And will it be the final home game for DC Matt Eber fl We'll get into that. But first I'm going to mix it up a little bit tonight, guys. Marcus landed. I'm going to start with a fill in the blank question this time. All right. Just to mix it up a little bit so we're not doing the same thing for you both. The Cowboys collapsed in these last two games after they had all that momentum from three wins in a row. The Cowboys collapsed because.

[Marcus Moser]

They'Re not very good. Well, I mean game, I think they had some really nice wins, right? They had the win over the Philadelphia and the win over Kansas City were, were good wins. But this team is still incredibly flawed really on both sides of the ball, but obviously more on defense. And you get into some of these games and you're just so, you have to play almost a perfect game on defense just to have a chance. And that has not been the case. You, you know, you play the Lions, you're significantly outmanned on that side of the ball. And then against Minnesota, JJ McCarthy, he's got wide open receivers all over the field and it shouldn't be unexpected. Like we knew this defense was going to really struggle this year. They've been playing a lot of new guys. They have a new defensive coordinator. I, I don't know why we would have expected anything else.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I don't, I don't really disagree with any of that. I, I think if, if I'm filling in the blank, I'm saying the defense, you know, kind of fell back to earth where we thought it was. And, and I, I think we got a lot of improvement from this team, maybe specifically on, on, on, you know, in run defense after the, the trade deadline. And I think we, we made some improvements as a past defense as well. But I also think that you were talking about a team that was, you know, 32nd or 31st in almost every measurable type of, of metric on, on past defense. And so, you know, there's only so much you're going to be able to do about that during the trade deadline and kind of getting some of those players back without making, you know, major.

[Marcus Moser]

Well, let me ask you this. Like, could it just have been that they hit three slumping offenses with the Raiders who, that all year, the Eagles who are in the middle of a slump on offense, and then Kansas City that, you know, they've struggled all year to score points.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah. I mean, I'll even put a finer point on that. It's, it's three offenses that hit a slump that are brand names. Right. That, that like you know, on, on a surface level from a 10,000 foot view in, at the beginning of the season, if you had told us that the Cowboys had beaten Kansas City and, and Philadelphia in four days, you know, apart, we would have been excited. And look, we should, we should be excited about that. Like I'm not, you know, downplaying it. I think what it, what it, it did is it artificially inflated our expectations for a team that probably was still a year away from being a, a playoff, you know, mover and shaker. And I think it made us kind of, you know, believe that this was a group that could overcome some of the shortcomings on the defense, on offense. But the truth of the matter is, is that it's unrealistic to expect them to face kind of a hobble teams the way they did. It's unrealistic to think that they would play the kind of almost pristine, perfect type of offensive football that they need to overcome the, the issues on, on defense. And ultimately, you know, they got some surprising results maybe because, you know, we all just put expectations too high at after, you know, a series of. Of of really good. That may be flawed opponent.

[Jeff Biggs]

Coach, what do you think?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I mean, you know, it's the defense that gave up what, 27 points to Jacobe Brissette. I mean they gave, you know, and did I think that they made some strides maybe. The problem I have is, and you guys have heard me say this so many times, I mean it's a defense that plays with terrible technique and I don't care what, what you're looking at. I don't care if it's a secondary. I don't care if it's the linebackers at times. I don't care if it's the leverage on the edge at times. They don't play with good sound technique. Do I think the cast of guys that are out there needs to be better? Absolutely. But I also think I could take 11. Damn. 10 soldiers and I could line them up and they play, they at least play with the correct leverage, they'd at least know what to do. Are they going to get beat? Absolutely. But what I don't like is this far into the season, continuing to talk about the same things that we've talked about all year, which is leverage, head placement, hand placement, where your eyes are. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it really is. It's one of those things where you just, you sit back and you go, okay, either the message is wrong, either or the messenger is wrong. And how are you gonna, how are you gonna get this straightened out? And I think that's something that they've come to the conclusion of saying, hey, we got to get to the end of the season and we got to self scout this thing and we got to take a look at it. We got to figure out why we're still so bad at doing the things that should have been corrected week one of OTAs.

[Marcus Moser]

And Jeff, just to show how poorly they play this year, the run David defense has been better. And honestly, they've made it an effort to, to get better on that side of the ball, and they have. But compared to what they have on the other side of the ball right now, Dak Prescott has a pass rating of 99, one of the highest in the league. Right. The Cowboys are allowing a pass rating of a 109.1. There's only two quarterbacks in the league right now that have a higher pass rating than that, and that's Matt Stafford and Jared Goff. That basically means that you are, you are playing against the NFL MVP every single week. That's the kind of performance that you're giving up week in and week out. It's unbelievable how bad they've been on that side of the ball.

[Jeff Biggs]

JJ looked like the MVP a little.

[Landon McCool]

Bit the other night.

[Jeff Biggs]

Can I offer a. A different take to what you guys are saying? And I want your feedback. You know, it was really disappointing to me. The, the loss to the Lions was bad. We talked about that last week. Felt like the Lions raised their game to just to a different level and they, they won it. But I was really, I really thought that after that loss and with the extra time off and all that was at stake, where you, I mean, you knew you had to win. I thought they were going to come out on fire and just dominate offensively, just go nuts, play with a ton of energy. And I just, I, I don't know. It just didn't. Maybe I'm reading something that's not there, but that would seem like a, well.

[Landon McCool]

I mean, they did a lot of good stuff offensively. It's just, you know, they ultimately, they didn't score touchdowns when they, they kicked field goals when they needed to score touchdowns. And that was a problem. But certainly the biggest problem is that Minnesota had no business keeping pace with this Dallas offense and they did, you know, and, and that has everything to do with the fact that J.J. mcCarthy was made to look like, you know, a much better quarterback than I think any of us anticipated showing up on Sunday. And, and, and I don't think it's because JJ McCarthy was particularly elite. I mean, I feel like he, even, even when the Cowboys gave him opportunities, he was still missing throws high and wide and with wide open receivers. But, but the Cowboys also gave him plenty of opportunity. They didn't, you know, they didn't rush the passer very well at all. They didn't seem to affect JJ McCarthy too much and his ability to throw the football. And at the end of the day they, they still have, you know, two of the best, you know, maybe the, one of the best duos and wide receivers on their side with Jefferson and Addison. So, you know, I think if, if the one thing that they couldn't afford to do was give JJ McCarthy all the time in the world to throw the football. And, and that's specifically what they did. And, and they got shredded just like they have been shredded, you know, consistently throughout the season in the passing passing game.

[Marcus Moser]

Well, and Jerry Jones mentioned that earlier this week on the radio, basically saying it's not a great sign when all these quarterbacks who are struggling are having their best games of the season against us. We'll talk about Matt Eberfluz's future in a little bit. But I thought Jerry, even, even acknowledging that, that's a telltale sign of maybe.

[Landon McCool]

What'S going to happen. I agree.

[Jeff Biggs]

Any thoughts, Coach?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

No, I, I mean, you know, we're, we're, to me, we get to the point here where we're beating a dead horse with this, with this scenario. I mean, I, they're, they're, you know, they're not coached very well and I, I, I don't know, you know, I, I really don't know how differently to, to say it. I'm not for, for. I, I'll never get on here and advocate to get rid of anybody, fire anybody. I mean, I think that's, you know, that's, that's the easy knee jerk thing to say. But at what Point. Does bad football just not go away? And we're too far into the season to be talking about the same, same, same, same.

[Landon McCool]

Can I just say real quick, like, I, I, I, I don't want to, like, you know, change defensive coordinators. Like, I mean, I, I'd hate that, the idea that the Cowboys have constantly changed over this defensive coordinator position. But I also feel like, man, like, you've got to show me something in order to keep you. Like, that's, that's where I think I stand with this, is that, like, it feels, it feels pretty indefensible what the defensive coaching staff has done, you know, for the most part, throughout the season. And, and I think we've talked about it throughout the season. So I, I think I've kind of just, you know, and I've, and I've, I've been prescribing against it for the last few weeks, but I think I finally reached a point, you know, me personally, that it, it feels like I haven't seen anything that I think positive that has been derived from this defensive coordinator and, or the staff. I, I don't even know what the loss would be at this point for, for not having continuity with this coaching staff. So I, I think I've, I've turned around on this to the point where I, I don't feel like I ever saw enough positive. I mean, even just a crumb or something to hold on to that makes me feel like there's something to work, work forward here. I mean, Eber Flutes was supposed to be, you know, a linebacker whisper. And the linebackers are the worst thing on this team.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So, I mean, let's reverse handicap this a little bit. What do they do any good?

[Landon McCool]

That's, that's what I'm saying, Coach. Like, that's.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Give me one specific thing on defense.

[Landon McCool]

Or on both sides of the ball.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

That they do that's any good. And, and I'm talking about on the defensive side. Yeah, there's the edge. They don't play the perimeter. They don't play with leverage, and that guy's run through the middle of the defense.

[Landon McCool]

I think that's, I mean, we could.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Sit here and just go on and on.

[Landon McCool]

That's why we're having this. I think that's why, that's why this conversation to me isn't just, hey, let's, let's regroup next year and kind of build off of what we learned, whatever. Like, that's why the conversation needs to be about a new defensive coordinator, because you're right. Like, what do they do? Well, like, what's the one thing I can at least point to that we can build on it? And, and I, I feel like at this point, like, maybe you got a glimpse into something that you were, it could have been an ember of an idea, something in those two, these, those, you know, that, that three game run that they won. But I think since then, that's all been disproven, I think, and kind of reeled back. So at this point, as we go into, what is it, Marcus, week 16 now, like, are, are you serious? Like, I still don't have any concept for what the Cowboys could, you know, huddle around and blow and, and kind of, you know, try to wisp up into a fire that could catch fire to, you know, become something. There's just nothing.

[Marcus Moser]

Like, there's, well, and that's why, and.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So don't you think that's the reason that Diggs is so disenchanted with what's going on?

[Landon McCool]

I, I think it's, it's certainly, yeah, it contributes to that. Absolutely.

[Marcus Moser]

The other thing is that, that I'm struggling with is why should the, the final three games have any determining factor of what the Cowboys do in the off season? At defensive coordinator, you're playing a team this week against the Chargers who are without their top four offensive tackles. And then in week 17 and 18, you're playing a 2 and 12 team and a 3 and 11 team that just bench their starting quarterback for the final, you know, three weeks of the season. These are three bad offenses. And I, I, I just don't want them to go out there and have decent days and think that they're suddenly turning the corner because it's not. You're just playing three teams that are really beat up right now.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, I'm for, I'm, I'm for empty the, I mean, empty the roster over there. Let's get some guys off the practice squad. Let's get some guys in the game. Let's evaluate what you do have. Because, I mean, if, if in fact you're still evaluating whether the coaches are getting it done, week 15 or 16, whatever you want to call it, then, then, then you are wrong.

[Marcus Moser]

It feels like the hay is in the barn at this point. Right.

[Landon McCool]

Well, I, I would say I, I think that the floor for how they, I mean, the ceiling for how they feel isn't moving. Like, I don't think there's anything that they could do these last three games that's gonna, you know, budge them on feeling better. About where this is, but I do think there is further down that they can go because if they don't play, like, if. If effort drops off, like if suddenly the. The players aren't even playing anymore and there's quit on that defense, I. I think there could be a case where he gets fired before the end of the season. And I think that's really where this can go. Is. Is it is a further negative situation. I don't know. I agree with you, Marcus. Ultimately, like. Like we're not getting any positive reviews or anything out of these last three games where you feel like, oh, that moved the needle enough for me to change my mind about Eber flu. But what I do think it can do is that if there are any people that still have reservation about, you know, again, all the reasons why it's bad to go have a fourth defensive coordinator fired regime fired in four years, I think it will basically kill whatever argument they have. Because if this team quits on this defensive coordinator before the end of the. Of the first year, like, what are we even coming back to at this point?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Many. So he's 03 and one against the division he came out of and the one was when he had score 40. Is that right?

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah.

[Marcus Moser]

Yeah. And I think they're. The Cowboys are.05 and one against non NFC east teams in the NFC. They're really struggling in the conference.

[Landon McCool]

And again, I think we have also given him the benefit of a doubt. We un. We have throughout the season said we understand that the situation. A part of it is he got thrown into a terrible situation with the Parsons situation and with, you know, everything that went around that. Like, I understand that there is circumstance around this, but beyond that, like, it's a lot of, like, what coach is saying, like the fact that they can't go through the entire season without kind of cleaning up very basic technique problems that they still struggle to communicate or get. You know, they're still struggling to get packages of folks onto the field in time for the snap in this last game against Minnesota at home. So it's like ultimately there's just too much, you know, very basic stuff that feels broken for me to feel comfortable about trying to come back and restart this with this same coach.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, let's take our first time out. When we come back, we'll kind of circle back around on this. I also want to hit on something that you brought up, both of you, about the final three games and what the game plan is going to be for the Cowboys, how they finish up. We'll get into that. We have some injury updates from practice as well. All that coming up on the Cowboys squad show. I want to talk to you about rocket Money because if you ever feel like your money just disappears each month, it happens fast and you got a few subscriptions here, an impulse buy there, and suddenly the numbers in your bank account don't match the numbers in your head. Rocket Money helps you get clarity, track every dollar and you can stay in control of your finances because managing your money should not feel like a second job. Rocket Money does the heavy lifting for you so you can save more and stress less. Now, one thing rocket money does, it finds subscriptions that maybe you forgot you were paying for, helps you clean them up quickly and and you can see all of your spending on one dashboard, which really makes it easier to understand where your money is going. And they also have bill alerts and spending notifications that can help you catch small things before they turn into big expenses. So take control of your finances. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com/Locking on today. That's Rocket Money.com LockedOn Rocket Money.com LockedOn.

[Marcus Moser]

Locked on listeners asked for more and now you can get it with the Everydayer club. For just $5 a month, you'll get every episode ad free, plus access to our members only discord board, exclusive audio from Locked On Sports today and other perks you won't find anywhere else. If you never miss a show, this is the next step. Join the Everydayer club [e-mail] everydayerclub or visit the link in the show notes. That's lockedonpodcast.com everydayerclub part of the Locked on podcast network your team every day.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, we're back. The Cowboys squad show Marcus Moser, Landon McCool and former Cowboys coach Glenn Smith. All right, so we've already kind of hit on it. Matt Eberfluss has really been under fire all season long. Had a bit of a little bit of a reprieve when the Cowboys won three in a row. It kind of felt like maybe they were turning a corner after the trades. They got some help on the D line and got some bodies back and he thought, okay, this defense is going to come together and hopefully they can improve just enough to give the offense, the Cowboys, great offense, the opportunity to win games and then it just completely fell apart. Sunday night though, not a good look. Jerry Jones has made his comments. You guys already touched on it in our last segment, but it, it feels like The EBRU flu farewell is pretty much a done deal at this time.

[Marcus Moser]

Done deal is probably a little strong, but I do think we're trending in that direction. I think Eber Flutes would need to show a lot over the next couple weeks, and I just don't know. I don't even know what the bar is. But Jeff, one of the things that I'm really curious to see what happens if the Cowboys decide to move on for Matiber Floose? Do they hire a defensive head coach or, sorry, a defensive coordinator that can bring in his own staff, or do they force current coaches to stay under a new defensive coordinator? Because I'll give you an example. I know there's a lot of love in the building for Aaron Whitecot, the Cowboys defensive line coach. I think he's done a really good job this year. I, I, I don't want to see him leave, but I don't necessarily want to see a situation where the Cowboys are forcing him onto a new defensive coordinator because that's how you get these defenses that just don't work together. They don't mesh because you've got differing beliefs. So that's what I'm, I'm fascinated to see is did the Cowboys actually give full control to Brian Schottenheimer and let him decide, you know, who he's bringing in or is it going to be more, you know, micromanagement from the front office?

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, it's an interesting question. I do think that, you know, know how, if they are going to change defensive coordinator here, how it gets done and, and how they choose the next guy and, and, and who his staff has, is, are all going to be very interesting questions because you've had four of these scenarios that have not worked previously.

[Marcus Moser]

Well, and last year with Mike Zimmer is a great example. Like they, they didn't let Zimmer pick his entire staff. They forced guys onto him like Al Harris. And it, I think it was working to a degree, but I also don't know if Zimmer loved the guys that he was working with either.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, and, and I, I think it's gonna matter depending on, I mean, if I, if we're being honest with ourselves, I think it's going to matter depending on the, the kind of gravitas that the coach brings with them. Right. Like, if it's a well established defensive coach that has a lot of skins on the wall, I think that they, you know, they're, the Joneses will probably give them the opportunity to kind of bring their own Folks, the question becomes like, exactly how this all kind of orders out a little bit, right? Do the. Do the Cowboys make. Hopefully make that higher first before trying to evaluate whether or not they want to keep, you know, current staff on here? Because I do think that, you know, not. It's not always the case that these defensive coordinators want to bring in only their own guys. Right? So. So I do think that there may be some folks that the Cowboys new defense coordinator may want to bring on, but I agree that, like, let's. Let's not put the cart in front of the horse here. Like, let's make sure we have the defensive coordinator and Brian Schottenheimer as the ones who are leading the hiring process and that the defensive coordinator is getting what they need to do what they need from these assistant coaches.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Isn't that exactly what they just. Isn't that what they did with Eber Flush? I mean, Overstreet was in Chicago. Morgan Z was in Chicago, you know, and, and.

[Landon McCool]

Well, I mean, I don't. Do you have a problem with that process or do you have a problem with the coach that coaches that were hired? Because I think those are two different things.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, no, I mean, I do think you have to have. You have to have your guys around you that know your system, that understand what you're doing here. Here's the. Here becomes the disconnect for me. What. What is it that you're wanting to do? And then what style of players do you have there now that can implement into your system? Which I don't think that's. That's at all what this staff has done because they took bland digs, guys that were man coverage guys and wanted to square peg around hole with guys that revel. When they drafted him.

[Landon McCool]

I was gonna say they draft. They drafted a man coverage guy.

[Marcus Moser]

This.

[Landon McCool]

This coach.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So. Yeah, so. So did they. Then I. I'm asking the question, who. Who spoke for him in the draft room? Was it the scouts?

[Landon McCool]

Was it the.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Was it. Was it Overstreet? Who was who? Was it that. Because somebody. Jerry doesn't just make these picks. He just. He doesn't just randomly look up there and go, yeah, give me. Give me Thumper McGillicuddy right there because I think we got him ranked 14 on the board. Guys have to stand up and. And endorse guys on that board. And so who was that?

[Landon McCool]

The other. The other people.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So that, that, that. That becomes the issue too with me is it becomes an accountability issue. Yeah, Marcus and I talked about this. Who, who, who said it was okay to go trade a fourth round pick for Mingo. Well, we had a second round grade on him. Well, maybe you were wrong when you had a second round grade on him. Tell me what did, what did he do in, in Carolina that warranted you to step up and put a, put a, put a fourth round number on him? And, and so that's what I'm saying. There's you, you got to have a certain, and I know we're talking about coaching here, but the coaching has say in what goes on in the draft and so there has to be some checks and balances with all of it.

[Landon McCool]

Well, I think the other thing that Jerry doesn't do or that Jerry does do. Right. Is that he gets a lot of opinions. I have zero. I mean there's just zero. There's no way that Eberfluss didn't sign off on this player on some, on some form or fashion. Right. Like, I just, I just, I mean, to the point where he said they couldn't use the player. Right. Like I, I, I just, and maybe that was a mistake of a new coach with a new owner, you know, not understanding whether or not he needed to step up and say something. But I mean, Eberfluss has a relationship with the Joneses. He's coached with them before and, and, and they respect his opinion a lot from his previous stop. And to me, like, Eber Flutes is supposed to be the backstop here and he wasn't on in his own, you know what I'm saying? Like, and if, I think, if anything.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

But Landon, Jerry's always done that. I mean, he did that, he did that with, with Rod Marinelli.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

He let him talk them into picking Tristan Hill. I don't know.

[Landon McCool]

Listen, I don't have a problem, I don't have a problem with that. But I also think that like, it's added to the pile of, of negatives for Eber Flutes. Like, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, I, we're, what I don't necessarily want is, and this has been a problem for the Cowboys, right, is they something happens, something bad happens. They, they make a mistake, they sign a bad contract and then what happens? They compound that mistake by trying to overcorrect going the opposite direction. Right? And to me, the worst thing that Jerry can do is, you know, take the lessons of Tristan Hill and take the lessons of Ravel. And I don't think Ravel is a bad player. If, if anything, I think Ravel's a good player. The problem was Eber flu. Should have said something about the fact that he's not necessarily a good match for what he wants to do or even more specifically what he was willing to do, because that's the other thing. He had all these players, he knows how to call man coverage. He could have, he could have just called man coverage or he could have said something and instead he probably did neither. And that's how we got to the situation that we're in.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I can tell you this, just having been on that, on the headphones, guys call what they're comfortable calling in critical situations. That's, that's, that's a fact.

[Landon McCool]

I agree with you.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So, so you say he knows how to call man coverage, but he may not be, he may not be comfortable doing it in certain situations, which that is what he has shown over and over and over. Right, because you look, let's just go back to the last game. I mean, you look at the first series of the game, he, he's coming after McCarthy, you look at the first series of the second half, they go three and out. And then guess what, he's right back into that comfort zone. Right.

[Landon McCool]

This is this. Yeah, absolutely, you're right. But my point here is that like this is a former head coach and he wasn't a very good head coach and maybe this is the kind of thing why, but he needs, he understands how this works. He needs to have the forethought. So when Jerry Jones asks him about this third round corner that they want to take and this guy's mostly a man coverage guy who hasn't played in his own. And you know that he's going to be coming in to your very short staffed cornerback room halfway that you may be relying on this player and you're not comfortable. You also know that you yourself are not comfortable with calling man coverage on third down when you need it. Then you've got, you're the one with all the information. You're the one who needs to step up and say something and be responsible to your head coach and to your owner and to your GM and say, hey, I don't, this is the truth. I think this is a great player. But I, I'm probably not going to play a bunch of man coverage on third downs when we need this guy. So just add that to your information. And maybe, and here's the thing, maybe he did do that and the Cowboys still drafted him either way. But I, but I, I, I think the Evidence is kind of pointing towards the contrary. It's all.

[Marcus Moser]

Well, and that was going to be. My whole point is there seems to be a disconnect between the front office, the head coach and the defensive coordinator. And I just keep coming back to Landon. I remember the night that the Cowboys hired Brian Schottenheimer, like 15 minutes after that was announced, it was announced that Matt Eberflus was going to be the defensive coordinator. And to me, there's just no way that Brian. I just don't believe that Brian Schottenheimer would have had a guy lined up already to be his defensive coordinator. This seems like it was forced on him a little bit. But the Cowboys also have a history and this is pattern, right? Yeah. And I think Will McLay deserves some, some blame for this as well. They have certain thresholds. They like, you know, on defense, whether it's, you know, long arms for cornerbacks or certain players on the defensive line. And then they ask their defensive coordinators to fit him into their scheme. There's absolutely no way that Dan Quinn would have ever drafted Mozzie Smith. It's just not the type of player that he has ever used. Right. But you spend a first round pick on him because will McLay in the front office likes him. And now we blame Dan Quinn for not knowing how to use that player when I'm sure he never wanted him before. It's this kind of thing that happens over and over and over again. And it's why it's hard to build a consistent defense because you've got changing schemes, you got new head or new defensive coordinators, but you've got a front office that likes to draft guys that they like to draft.

[Jeff Biggs]

Well said. Well, I mean, that disconnect can't be an issue. You got to have the good teams, the good organizations have that, that synergy. They're. They're in sync. And you can see that, you know, from the front office onto the field itself. I just thought too, you know, listening to you guys all make great points. And I was just thinking about this. We talked about it a little bit after the Sunday night game. Coach. And I just. You have a team that went 12 and five a couple years ago and I liken it to. I use the example of when the Lakers had Del Harris as their coach, former Mavs coach, one time Laker coach, and then they brought in Phil Jackson to help them get over the hump. I know Eber Fluss has been around, but a lot of young guys on the staff and it's Easy to second guess now. It's easy to look back and look at the record and place blame. But I think the big question is, can this team, can this team, can they take that next step while you have the offense that you have right now? You don't want to keep wasting years when you have Dak and CD and Pickens. We don't know if Pickens is going to be back. But with the offense that they have and then the pieces that they have in defense, can they find a way to, to get better?

[Marcus Moser]

I. Jeff, I think you can rebuild a defense a lot faster than you can rebuild an offense. And I think Philadelphia last year was a good example. 2023, they were awful in the second half of the year. They draft two, you know, guys on defense, they bring in Vic Fangio, and suddenly that defense wins a Super Bowl. I think it can be done fairly quickly.

[Landon McCool]

Marcus and I did a podcast on this, this week, actually.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I know you did.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah. And, and, and, and it was. The question, you know, is a lot of. It's complicated, right, because it's not just about personnel, it's about scheme improvements and, and, and, and not only just player acquisition, but, but personnel improvement. Right. Like guys that you're, you know, watching the trajectories of where they're going to get, get better in the off season. But I mean, I think, you know, Marcus and I kind of did some simple math and between the draft picks that you've got and the money that you've got in free agency, I think you, you're looking at probably 6ish players that you would need to add to make a good impact on, a positive impact on this defense and then maybe a scheme change. And I think, you know, depending on the kind of quality that you need for those six players, we kind of counted it out as, I think four starters and then two kind of rotational like, you know, think Solomon Thomas, like guys that play a lot that may not be, that are borderline starters. Right. I think that that's, that's doable in the season if you're, if you're able to kind of find a way to mix and match which. The resources you've got. And I think that that, like Marcus said, it's a lot easier to kind of repurpose the, and get the defense back up and running because it's a lot of reaction. Right. It's athleticism, if you can get.

[Marcus Moser]

I got some numbers for you.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, let's hear it. Yeah.

[Marcus Moser]

2023, Philadelphia, they were 30th in the NFL in points per game with Sean Diase. They fired him 20, 24. They hired Vic Fangio. They drafted two defensive backs with their first two picks. They finished second in points per game. That is an example of how fast things can change if you get the right defensive coordinator and you can hit on a couple picks.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, absolutely. So it's doable. It's. It, it's just about like, you know, it's hard. It's not going to be easy. And there's. And you got to get several things very right. But I certainly think that, that, that it's, it's doable. One more thing real quick before I just wanted to talk about Will Mlay and, and I, I think that, you know, it's talking about Will Mlay feels like the third rail in Cowboys fandom, right? Like, he's just so, well, revered and I think he, he deserves it and I think he's been incredible for the Cowboys. And I think there's a reason that he's gotten lots of opportunities to interview, you know, at other places outside of Dallas. I mean, it's hard not to look at what's going on with the kind of miscommunication stuff and not look at Will McLay. Because part of the sell that we were given was that Will McLay was such a good glue guy between the scouting department and the, and the coaches because he's a coach himself. He was a Dallas desperado coach for a long time, and that was part of the appeal. I think that they have got to find a way to solidify the communication that's happening. Because I do agree with what Marcus was saying earlier, that if you can't get aligned on how the cornerbacks are supposed to look on your defense versus what Will McClay thinks the cornerback is supposed to look like, like, that's a pretty major disagreement and it is a limiting factor. And your ability to kind of get the players you need to run the defense that you've got.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

And I think that's something that, you know, you have to constantly be going over with what the guys that are out in the field, what they're looking at and what they're looking for. And what you're looking for. Hey, what is it that whoever's coaching the defensive backs next year, what is it that you're looking for in a corner? What is it? I want to know certain characteristics, certain measurables that of what you're looking for? And then I'm going to. And then I'm going to look for that in, in tune with you. And then I'm going to bring back who I think are the best guys. That, I mean, that's how you, I mean, that's how you coordinate it up. But that's, again, that, that is Will McClay's responsibility.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, well, a lot of questions and I, I just, I also thought too, coach, and we have to go to a break here, but I remember you, you had made the comment well, well before even got to training camp about just bringing out a bunch of coaches that didn't have any NFL experience and that that could, you know, I'm not saying that that's to cause the blame of anything specifically, but I just think with this, with this group, they, like you said, they all have to be. Everything has to be on the same page and everybody pulling together and trying to get to that goal, which is winning the Super Bowl. All right, quick time out. When we come back, got to talk about George Pickens and what's going on with him. And another recent podcast of the Daily Lockdown Cowboy show with Marcus Moser and Landon McCool. We'll get into that when we come back. This is the Cowboys squad show.

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[Jeff Biggs]

K.Com rubrik.com all right, I want to talk about FanDuel because it's that time of the year with FanDuel and everything that they've got going on. And NFL Sundays, as you know, move fast. I mean, one big play and suddenly everything feels different. That's what makes live betting with FanDuel so exciting. You're not just watching the game. You're reacting to it in real time. And with FanDuel, you can place your bets as the action unfolds. Every drive, every momentum swing, every highlight moment. And live betting is really at its best when the game starts to shift, right? You got a receiver that gets hot, a defense that tightens up or the momentum flips after a turnover. And FanDuel, really, the cool thing is lets you jump into that moment. So you get live spreads and money lines that adjust instantly. You get player props update as guys heat up, and you can even bet the next touchdown scores, drive results, totals, and more. I mean, it really keeps you locked into every snap, no pun intended. Every drive, every possibility. So if you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit FanDuel.com and place your NFL Live bets all season long. FanDuel. The game moves fast, and so can you. All right, we're back. The Cowboy squad show Marcus Moser, Landon McCool and the coach, Glenn Stretch Smith. You're smiling, coach. I like that.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I like, I like, I like. I like how you read that with that, with that passion. The fan duel, man, the games moves fast. They do.

[Jeff Biggs]

They do, right?

[Landon McCool]

You would know Cowboys defensive backs don't move too fast.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

There you go. I guarantee you Amen to that.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, so Marcus landed another plug for the daily lockdown Cowboys podcast. And Marcus and Land, you guys made a point that paraphrasing that fans should not be concerned about these kind of quiet games for George Pickens, explain.

[Marcus Moser]

It's just if the offense was struggling and it was like, hey, it's a really. It's a struggle for them to get to 20 points, and there's that. We can't throw the ball, I would be concerned. But against the Lions, CD Lamb had 120 yards in the first half. Ryan Flournoy ended up with 111 yards, and George Pickens got held like three catches for 30 yards. Like, again, this is. It's gonna happen. You're not gonna have two receivers average 100 yards every single game. Against Minnesota they played a lot of COVID zero. They, the Cowboys could not protect Dak Prescott. They couldn't push the ball down the field. But at the same time, Javante Williams averaged 6.1 yards per carry. CD Lamb had another 100 yard day and they would have scored 30 something what, 34 points if they just miss or to make the field goals that they settled for. To me it's a non story until the offense starts to struggle and I just don't think it is good the rest of the year. I think they're going to be just fine.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah, I think that's, that was the bottom line for me ultimately is that it felt like people were talking about this when the offense was performing pretty well and I think Marcus just gave you all the numbers and I think George Pickens contributed to that because of the attention that George Pickens is demanding by this defense. So in, in those situations, I just view it as, you know, Pickens did his job. It wasn't a situation where he got a whole bunch of targets and wasn't able to catch the ball. You know, I, I, I think if the offense is operating and he's creating attention away from the other players and they're able to produce. I, I think people are trying to find a reason to complain about George Pickens because they know that George Pickens is a perceived malcontent. So look, the Cowboys have issues and, and issues on the offense, you know, that, that we can talk about. But I, I don't think that George Pickens producing a ton of numbers week to week when, while the offense, the rest of the offense is producing is something that's high on my list of things to complain about.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah. I mean, you guys, you guys have heard me say multiple times. I mean I was talking to, as a matter of fact, I was talking to Tom Siskowski tonight who was, you know, we worked for the Cowboys forever and I, and, and I asked him where he was talking about George Pickens and I said okay, let's just say, you know, he comes off, he's got a 9 route called or just go and he becomes blowing off the ball at 15 yards. He sees the safety coming up over the top. Is, is he, is he just going to burn ass and haul ass into coverage or, or, or is he going to kind of gear himself down and, and you know what? Every receiver in the NFL is going to do that. I just, I don't, I don't understand where, you know, just because one scout or somebody from Pittsburgh or somebody come out and said, well, George's elevator doesn't go all the way to the top.

[Landon McCool]

And you know what?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I don't, I don't see that. I, I, I, I don't see that as an issue. And I, I think he is a football player and I, I think you gotta, you got to do everything you can to keep him around here because to me he's shown nothing. Nothing except he can make plays. And I, I think he wants to be that guy.

[Marcus Moser]

The Cowboys have a lot of problems. I mean, we just went through a whole bunch of them. On defense, they have problems. On offense, Landon and I talked about some of the play calling issues, the, the offensive line issues. We don't need to make up problems. This just isn't a problem to be concerned about. If pickens only had 600 yards at this point in the season, okay, maybe we talk about how do they get him more involved, but you're talking about a guy who's already set his career high in receptions, yards and touchdowns, who's playing the best football of his career, who had a, I think a bad game against Detroit, but not a bad game against Minnesota. The effort was there. The ball just didn't go his way because it was going to. CD Lamb. I just, it's just not something that we need to spend a lot of time worrying about because I think he's going to have some big games to finish the season. He's going to have 1400 yards. And what are we going to complain about?

[Landon McCool]

That? It's the classic kind of, and I hate to, you know, term it like this, but like sports talk radio kind of thing where it's like, because there's like was once a problem and, and fandom knows about it. Like anytime the Cowboys lose, they can only point to what's familiar. Like that's, you know, football is a, is a sport for everybody, right? And, and everybody likes to talk about football, especially people who don't really understand football a ton. And so like, there's people like that.

[Marcus Moser]

Out there that talk about football that.

[Landon McCool]

Don'T know, man, it feels like, it feels like you're encountering, you're interacting with them every day. Marcus.

[Marcus Moser]

I can't help myself.

[Landon McCool]

And so like, I think that it's fine, right? Like, everyone loves to talk about football and I think that that's, that's a fun thing to do. But I think that what you see is that often when your team loses, everyone kind of gloms on to whatever narrative they're familiar with and a very familiar narrative is George Pickens, you know, isn't a huge effort guy, and maybe he's not trying hard. So all it takes is someone to see the score of the Cowboys game, see that George pickens didn't have 100 yards or whatever their metric is for him having a good game, and then to kind of revert back to that narrative and regurgitate that onto, hopefully, Marcus's timeline and not mine.

[Marcus Moser]

It's been a weird couple days on Twitter, Jeff. Let me just tell you that you're.

[Jeff Biggs]

You're all over it, so.

[Marcus Moser]

No, I'm in the trenches here, buddy.

[Jeff Biggs]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Landon McCool]

He's got the. He's got the gas. The gas mask on. The mustard gas is all above his head. He's diving into the. It's, it's. The bullets are flying. Marcus is in it right now.

[Marcus Moser]

The best linebacker the Cowboys have had over the last 10 years.

[Landon McCool]

We're not doing that, Marcus. We're not bringing that in here. Okay.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

What are you wanting to. Somewhere I'm missing it. Is this the 6, 7 gig again?

[Marcus Moser]

I mean, it might as well be. It's just as stupid.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah. What is it? What is he. You're not bringing.

[Landon McCool]

All right, listen, Marcus, I'm gonna give you four minutes, and we could talk about this for four minutes, and then we have to move on. Go.

[Marcus Moser]

There is a subsection of Cowboys Twitter that believe. Believes Kenneth Murray is not the pro. It's not an issue on the Cowboys defense. They believe he's actually one of the better linebackers they've had over the last, really, eight years. Actually better than Leighton Vanderash is what one of the arguments was at. And I, I, that's it. That's all I need to say. I don't need four minutes. I just needed those 20 seconds.

[Landon McCool]

All right, all right.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right. Well, that was good. That was well done. Well played.

[Marcus Moser]

I mean, no, it wasn't, but it's fine. Go ahead.

[Jeff Biggs]

It's a lot of. A lot of. I think another topic. I think you guys have probably seen it this week is final three games. Do the Cowboys rest their starters? Do they try to lose and try to get a higher pick? Do they?

[Marcus Moser]

Jeff, can I ask coach about this? Because I, I, I, I, I.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Hold on a minute. Is this question coming from the provost of Twitter?

[Landon McCool]

No.

[Marcus Moser]

No, this is real. No, this is real. No, because I've been struggling with this, right? Because part of me does.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, I'm struggling. Go ahead. I'm.

[Marcus Moser]

Listen, part of me does think that it's important to try to build A winning culture and listening to Quin and Williams talk about his days with the Jets. I don't want the Cowboys to turn into that where it's, you know, they're a joke around the league and they're not competitive.

[Landon McCool]

But losing becomes okay. That's right.

[Marcus Moser]

Where become losing becomes accepted and. Okay. Right. But when you're out of the playoffs and you've got these three games left, can you really build a winning culture culture when you're already out of the playoffs or do you start making some decisions for the future? Like, I mean, trying to evaluate Joe Milton?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Well, let me ask you something.

[Landon McCool]

What?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Like, let's just use, I mean, let's just use anybody. Name the player. Have you not seen enough of, I mean, have you not seen enough of the running back to know he can play?

[Marcus Moser]

Oh, absolutely.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Do you need to see more from Javante?

[Marcus Moser]

No, I, We've seen everything. He's been great.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So, so, so, so we know that. Okay. Do we need to see more from cd? Do we need to see more from George? Do we need to see more from Ferguson? Or do we need to see more from Span forward? Do we need to see more from Soon Maker? Do we need.

[Marcus Moser]

But how do you. I, I agree with everything you're saying. Like I would like to see some of the.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

No, you don't know what I'm saying. I made one damn point. You said everything.

[Marcus Moser]

How do you weigh that though, versus trying to win? Because I, that's what I don't understand.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, go out there and say, boys, we're, we're fixing to go out here and crap the bed.

[Marcus Moser]

Right?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

You don't say that. But what, what, what will you get your football team ready to play and you challenge your, your, you challenge your team? I mean, you're, again, you're talking about playing for an opportunity that maybe if it's not here, it's somewhere else.

[Landon McCool]

I mean, when you, when you put.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

It out there on game tape, it's in a Sharpie, you're not, you're not going and erasing it and, or white outing or whatever. So, I mean, I'm, I'm from the school that, guess what? Go challenge your guys that you need to, to see something from and go put them in these situations. Now, let's say it's the, I mean, I'm not sure that I need to see a three game, six set of it, but I certainly, I, I would like to certainly see multiple halves of it. I would certainly like to see.

[Jeff Biggs]

Maybe.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Even, maybe even two full games. I I, I want to see that much in the same way you can, you know, you, we, we can kick the Cleveland Browns all you want to. You know what? They're gonna, they're gonna know what Shadour Sanders can do. By the end of this set, they're going to have a pretty good feeling of knowing the direction that they want to go. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm for. I'm for putting guys in the game that, that need to have playing time.

[Landon McCool]

Marcus, let me ask you a question. Do you think that, do you think that Trayvon Diggs, his knee is still hurt?

[Marcus Moser]

I, I, My bet is it's still sore, but he's healthy enough to play.

[Landon McCool]

I think that's how you. That's how you do this, right? Yeah.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Is that.

[Marcus Moser]

Well, I think, like, hey, CD Lamb, how's the, how's that high ankle?

[Landon McCool]

Exactly.

[Marcus Moser]

And I think my guess is if they play this week against the Chargers, they play next week on Christmas Day because of all the national eyes, you know, on Netflix. And then in week 18 is where you see guys like CD Lamb sit and Tyler Booker sit and Tyler Smith, who's been dealing with D10. And I said those kind of guys.

[Landon McCool]

I think, I think this is how this has always worked in the NFL, right? Is that like, you know, you can't make it into a. I think even when you, when you're tanking in the NBA or whatever, when, when that exists, it's a situation where you still don't talk about it. Like, you. Or, or, you know, it's the coaches.

[Marcus Moser]

The coaches aren't telling people to go and try to lose these games on purpose. You're just putting guys into the game who maybe lower your chances of winning.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah. And I think that the NFL is the same way, right? Where it's like, you would never, ever whisper anything like this to your, to your teammates or to your, to the people you're coach. You're coaching. I think it's, it's done in small moments in the way that you're managing the roster of the folks that are playing, right? Like, oh, you, you scratched your toe, Dak. Maybe go sit over there for a little bit. Right? Like, it's, it's that sort of thing where, you know, you're not asking guys to push through anything, and you're doing stuff like this. I think the other thing, too, is we should mention that I don't think we did that, that Josh Butler And Peyton Turner and there was one more. I can't remember who's film off. Film offa. That's right. Have all come off of their, their list and opened their 21 day window. So the Cowboys are getting, you know, the opportunity for, to get these guys into practice to see if they can, you know, potentially pull them into games. I don't know if they're actually going to be active and that will be interesting to see exactly if they make them game day active. But the Cowboys are in evaluation mode at this point, right? Like pulling.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Here's the thing you don't want to do. You don't want, you don't want Phil Mafa picking up a blitz with Dak Prescott in the game. That's what you're talking about. I mean that's, that's what we're dealing with here.

[Marcus Moser]

But coach, I want to ask you, like, let's say the Cowboys do win the next three games, right? They miss the playoffs. Are those wins valuable in actually building a winning culture or do we get to the end of the season and it doesn't really matter?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

No, I believe so. I mean, I, I think winning is just as, as contagious as losing is. Losing is contagious. I mean, look around, look around at teams in the NFL that get, get beat and you, you'll know that, you know, I don't want to sit here and point, but I mean if you, if you can't tell that that's a, that's a bad, that's a bad feeling in the building. It's a bad, it's not a good, it's just not a good. And, and it's not conducive to be a good teaching environment when you're, you know, when you're getting your ass kicked. I mean it's, it's, it's not.

[Landon McCool]

I'll also add that we've lost two games in a row already, right? So like losing the last three would be actually a five game losing streak, which is really not.

[Marcus Moser]

They're not gonna do that. I will tell you right now.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I'm just, I'm just not, I'm just not from. And I know what you're saying, but I'm saying I, I would still, I, I think you, you need to understand what this team needs the most. And what they need the most is an evaluation of, of just like all the guys that you just talked about. I mean they need to be evaluated. They Mafa blue, they're two backs. They, they, they, they need, they need playing Time. Perion Winfrey, you, you need to play him Butler. He needs to get in the game. Now, how strategically you put him in the game. Whatever. I, I, I don't think you sit and say, well, I'm going to put Perion Winfrey on, on, on a pitch count.

[Landon McCool]

I think you, you challenge him and.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Say, hey, but you're, you're getting some playing time. We're, we, we expect you to go out here and play it at a very high level. And, you know, I would do that to, to everybody. I, I feel the same way about, about the receiver that they traded for. Why am I, why am I, yeah, put his ass in the game and see what he's got. I mean, all right, what, what, what is the downside? Because I, I know what I have with Pickens. I know what I have with Turpin. I know what I have with cd what's the downside of playing him, Flournoy and Tolbert? Because you think you're going to create a losing culture. I mean, I mean, I would, I would say, you know what, that, that should be the same exact mentality that the Giants should be going in the game with, that Washington should be going in the game with, and quite frankly, you should be going in the game with that mentality.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, quick final timeout, final segment coming up next. This is the Cowboys squad show.

[Marcus Moser]

This is Tyler Roland from the Locked on Titans podcast. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I love how simple it is to pay using Apple Card. With Apple Pay. It's built right into my iPhone, so it's always ready to go. I was on vacation recently. I didn't even have to bring my wallet to the beach. Plus, I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase when I use my Apple Card with Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch terms and more@apple card.com.

[Jeff Biggs]

That was quick. Welcome back. Yeah, I told you it was gonna be quick. I just want to say real quick, for the record, I tanking. You know, I, I think it's like the worst thing that's ever happened to sports. But that's, that's another topic for another time. All right, so we're talking about some players coming back. Guys, help me with this. So is Saturday the, the D day for Trayvon Diggs? And do you think, do you think they, they'll let him play this week, or are you sticking with what you.

[Landon McCool]

Guys Said before, Trayvon Diggs is not playing for the Cowboys ever again.

[Jeff Biggs]

I had to ask.

[Landon McCool]

I'm gonna go ahead and just make that statement at this point, I think.

[Jeff Biggs]

Okay.

[Marcus Moser]

Yeah, yeah, it's, I don't, I'd be shocked if Diggs ever played again for the Cowboys. I just don't see it. And honestly, there's really no reason to do it. I mean, you've got some guys that you want to see Kaylin Carson, Savon Revel, Josh Butler play. Those guys, they have at least a chance to be on this team next year.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I mean, I agree. I, I think when you did not see him, when you didn't see him Sunday night, I, I think that's, I mean, that you don't need to see, you don't need to read any more into it than that. He's, agree, he's, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're moving on. And, you know, barring something just outlandish happening, I, I, I, I don't think he ever, he ever puts on the Cowboys helmet again.

[Landon McCool]

I don't think that they trust that he won't get injured too. Like, and that's the other thing, too, is that they don't want to, like.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Let'S see, I did see somewhere where since he signed that deal, he's played like, in 19 of 47 or 46 games or something.

[Jeff Biggs]

Ouch.

[Marcus Moser]

Yeah, it's, it, he's, he's not played very many games. And it's just at the point where I think both parties are tied or they're ready for divorce, and I think it's going to happen.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, real quick, before we go home finale on Sunday against the Chargers team that very, has become very physical. They're starting to kind of hit their stride now with health and under Jim Harbaugh, but they, they, I mean, they beat up the Chiefs on Sunday, so this is going to be, I think, a very physical game and they've got a lot to play for. They're, they're, they're still rolling.

[Landon McCool]

Yeah. I'll say this. I don't, I think the Cowboys have proved pretty thoroughly that beating up on the Chiefs is not exactly a high watermark anymore. So there's something to keep in mind.

[Marcus Moser]

Jeff has no faith in the Cowboys making a run and hosting home playoff game. I can tell. Yeah, it's gonna be a very, very physical game. The Chargers have no tackles, they can't protect Justin Herbert, but they play a tough brand of football. I, I fully expect the Chargers to put up 27 points and this to be a 27, 24 type of game.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I mean, I agree. I think you're going to get a team in here that's, that's chasing the Broncos. And, and, and guess what? They're, they're, they're not going to, they're not going to let up. That, that's not, it's not even hardball style at all. So you know what? If you're not, if you don't, if you don't come ready and you don't get your, make sure your mouthpiece is molded and your, your ass is taped up, you're going to get, you're going to get crap knocked out of you. So that, I mean, that would be my message.

[Landon McCool]

I wouldn't be shocked if Herbert had a, a career high passing day and B, the most terrible physical day that he's ever had in his life because I, I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up getting hit a lot and still throws a, for a whole bunch of yards. So we'll see.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, real quick before we go, what's coming up on the daily Lockdown Cowboys podcast?

[Marcus Moser]

Yeah, we've got a crossover show on Thursday with the Lockdown Chargers guys so make sure you check that out on Friday we'll preview the Charger game, but we're going to really do it from a long term perspective. We're not going to super care about this matchup and diving into why we think they're going to win. We're going to tell you about some guys to keep an eye on for the long term health of the Dallas Cowboys. So be on the lookout for that on Friday.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right Coach, we'll, we'll talk to you Sunday afternoon.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Sounds good. You guys have a good night.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right. Landon McCool, the co host of the daily Locked on Cowboys podcast. Check out their action the rest of the week and we'll be both.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Both.

[Jeff Biggs]

I'll be back with you after the game on Sunday. This has been the Cowboys squad show. Calling all daydreamers and date nighters. Come immerse yourself in the rich culture of Texas and dig into our mouth watering barbecue. Trailblazers can explore our natural wonders.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

And.

[Jeff Biggs]

Beach lovers will wonder why they've never felt so relaxed before. You're invited to discover experience experiences you can only find in Texas. Visit traveltexas.com and plan your trip today. Let's Texas.

[Landon McCool]

Traditions are a funny thing. They're why we tailgate in the pouring rain. Wear full body paint and refuse to wash that lucky jersey. And just like in football, tradition is what inspires us at Tostitos to make our masa the traditional way, starting with whole corn kernels. No artificial flavors, colors or preservatives crafted for that perfect crunch.

[Jeff Biggs]

Tostitos tradition matters.

[Landon McCool]

Official chip and dip sponsor of the NFL.

[Jeff Biggs]

The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, roles, sacrifices.

[Landon McCool]

Life's a focus. This is where i50 everything you got all damn day. The attention to detail is like none other. Be fiscal, keep violent.

[Marcus Moser]

We are the winner. Chilean takes on Ole Miss, followed by.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

James Madison in Oregon.

[Marcus Moser]

It's time to bring it first round coverage on the College Football Playoffs presented.

[Landon McCool]

By allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.

[Jeff Biggs]

Max, are you ready?

[Marcus Moser]

Let's go.