COWBOYS SQUAD SHOW: The Cowboys have begun in-person interviews for their DC position.

Summary

Locked On Cowboys - Cowboys Squad Show: Defensive Coordinator Search Heats Up

Episode Date: January 21, 2026
Hosts: Jeff Biggs, Marcus Mosher, Glenn "Stretch" Smith, Aisha Morrison
Podcast: Locked On Cowboys (Locked On Podcast Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Cowboys Squad Show dives into the Dallas Cowboys' ongoing search for a new Defensive Coordinator (DC), breaking down latest interview updates, what makes this hire so crucial, and debates among the panel about the best profiles for the job. The hosts also address broader team news, such as the future of key players (e.g., George Pickens’ contract talks), special teams coaching concerns, and under-the-radar offensive contributors. The panel offers insights into coaching interviews, roster building, and what’s next for the Cowboys in a tightly-packed NFL offseason.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Status of the Cowboys’ Defensive Coordinator Search: Updates on interviews, candidate analysis, and urgency versus patience in the hiring process.
• Team Building & Roster Moves: Analysis of impending free agents and the market, specifically George Pickens.
• Organizational Philosophy: Debates on the experience vs. youth in coaching, teaching ability, and how relationships factor into hires.
• Special Teams and Offensive Depth: Scrutiny over special teams coaching and sleeper performers like Ryan Flournoy.
• Fan Sentiment and Organizational Pressure: Recognition of fan anxiety, high expectations, and the importance of “getting it right” during this busy offseason.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defensive Coordinator Search: Playing the Waiting Game

Timestamp: 03:20–06:00

• Marcus Mosher emphasizes patience: Despite fan anxiety, there are other teams still searching for a DC and some teams (like the 49ers and Chargers) may only now begin their search after playoff exits. Rushing could lead to the wrong hire, as the Cowboys experienced last year.

  • Quote [03:20]:
    “Don’t get too worked up here that the Cowboys don’t have a coordinator in place. You want to make sure you get the right guy because there’s nothing worse than rushing this process.”

• Candidates discussed:

  • Jonathan Gannon: Recent interview, seems a strong contender.
  • Jim Leonard (Denver): Still coaching; Cowboys may be waiting for his availability.
  • Durante Jones (Minnesota): Growing buzz and respect internally.
  • Others: Leslie Frazier, Terrell Austin, Jim Schwartz, Jerry Gray presented as experienced options.

Panel Dynamics:

• Stretch (Glenn Smith) prefers veteran coordinators:
  “I want some more experienced guys...I don’t want some whiz kid drawing a bunch of crap on the back of a cocktail napkin...I want somebody who knows how to teach the technique.” [06:00]
• Aisha Morrison counters with openness to young coaches:
  “If a guy’s earned his shot, he’s not gonna earn his other shot until somebody gives him a shot.” [07:16]

2. Dak Prescott’s Window and Team Building Strategies

Timestamp: 08:00–09:00

• The crew debates if the Cowboys’ “window” with Dak is a limiting factor in how patient they can be with coaching hires.
• Marcus’s perspective: Dak will be productive into his mid-30s, but “the next two years are really the window.”

3. Is the DC Job Attractive? Pessimism vs Optimism

Timestamp: 13:17–15:17

• Glenn Smith skeptical:
  “It’s a 500 football team with not very good talent on that side of the ball...Not a very good job.” [13:48]
• Marcus Mosher sees upside:
  • “If you can get this unit to be average, everybody’s going to think you did an awesome job...Expectations are so low.” [14:30]
  • Points to draft capital and a less-pressurized situation compared to other NFL jobs.
• Consensus: It’s a serious rebuild, but also an opportunity for rising stars who want to make a mark.

4. Special Teams & Staff Uncertainty

Timestamp: 15:36–19:29

• Aisha raises special teams concerns: Disappointment that changes haven’t been made after a down year.
• Insider perspective (Glenn Smith): Sometimes coaches are told to find other jobs before officially dismissed—uncertainty remains.
• The panel acknowledges Nick Sorensen’s possible retention but questions if the team is truly happy with the special teams’ performance.
• Direct quote [17:37]:
  “I truly believe that there are multiple guys on this staff right now who have been told: go find yourself another job.” – Glenn Smith

5. What Does an NFL Coaching Interview Look Like?

Timestamp: 19:32–23:20

• Glenn Smith provides behind-the-scenes insight:
  Candidates are grilled about schemes, situations, and teaching philosophies. The board-work and chalk talk are tests of both knowledge and ability to retain/teach.
  • “The key for me...is how do you teach...Are you able to teach that to young people today?” [22:55]
  • Suggestion that in the modern NFL, the ability to teach fundamentals is sometimes overshadowed by the search for schematic “geniuses.”

6. George Pickens Contract Update: The Franchise Tag Debate

Timestamp: 29:00–44:30

• Latest Reports: Cowboys expected to franchise Pickens (~$28M), but he wants a long-term deal. ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reports possible holdout if no deal is reached.

• Panel’s Take:

  • Marcus: This isn’t new—“we’ve known for months”—franchise tag is a placeholder, negotiations will continue.
    • “Both sides are motivated to get a deal done. I don’t think they want to go through the same thing they did with Micah last offseason.” [29:50]
  • Aisha: Coaching staff and players are adamant about keeping Pickens. “The OC and the play caller, very much so are adamant about this person being on this team.” [31:50]
  • Glenn Smith: Urges the importance of fitting into a team mentality (contrasting individual vs team priorities a la Tom Brady).
  • Discussion on value, perception, and the leverage agents wield, with Marcus noting Pickens had less market interest than someone like Micah Parsons (hence less leverage).

• Short-term Deal Logic:
  Marcus outlines the logic for a two-year, ~$65M deal as a win-win, keeping Pickens through Dak’s prime and letting him hit free agency again at age 27, “...he could hit the market again at age 27 and get another massive payday.” [43:19]

7. Sleeper Spotlight: Ryan Flournoy’s Rise

Timestamp: 45:30–48:40

• Pro Football Focus names Flournoy an “underrated impact player.”
• Marcus:
  • “Flournoy’s development was one of the cooler things for the Cowboys this season...if something were to happen with Pickens...and you go into the season with CD Lamb and Ryan Flournoy, you don’t suddenly feel like you’re the Bills and have no weapons.”
• Aisha:
  • “He was just reliable...when people are trying to shade coverage and trying to do all this other stuff, having that guy that can win on his own...How stressing does that have to be for a defense?”

8. Hunter Luepke & the Fullback Conundrum

Timestamp: 49:47–53:27

• Panel disappointment: Luepke expected to feature more after early promise and coaching praise (“Schottenheimer spoke so highly of him”), but “if you look at his production...did you get what you felt like in a bang for the buck scenario?” – Glenn Smith [51:14]
• Marcus: Questions Luepke’s fit—“They got to decide, is there a spot on this team for a fullback? If the answer is no, move on from Luepke.” [50:18]
• Comparable FBs (e.g., Matlock, Juszczyk) discussed as benchmarks for the role.

9. Draft Talk and Looking Ahead

Timestamp: 58:14–61:32

• Marcus previews upcoming content: Offseason moves, draft prospects, and all-star games (East-West Shrine practices, Senior Bowl).
• Biggest Need – D-Line or Corner? Panel consensus is that the defense needs an impact/wreck-the-game player on the line but there’s also a depth crisis at corner.

10. Quarterback Depth: Joe Milton as Backup

Timestamp: 59:52–62:19

• Latest reports: Joe Milton likely sticking as backup, but Marcus and Glenn would not be surprised to see the Cowboys look for competition or even draft a developmental quarterback (Sawyer Robertson from Baylor mentioned as a possibility).

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Memorable Quotes

| Time | Quote | Speaker | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------| | 03:20 | “Don’t get too worked up...You want to make sure you get the right guy because there’s nothing worse than rushing this process.” | Marcus Mosher | | 06:00 | “I want some more experienced guys...not some whiz kid drawing crap on the back of a cocktail napkin...” | Glenn 'Stretch' Smith | | 14:30 | “If you can get this unit to be average, everybody’s going to think you did an awesome job.” | Marcus Mosher | | 17:37 | “There are multiple guys on this staff who’ve been told, go find yourself another job.” | Glenn 'Stretch' Smith | | 22:55 | “The key for me...is how do you teach? Are you able to teach that to young people today?” | Glenn 'Stretch' Smith | | 29:50 | “Both sides are motivated to get a deal done. I don’t think they want to go through the same thing they did with Micah last offseason.” | Marcus Mosher | | 43:19 | “He could hit the market again at age 27 and get another massive payday.” | Marcus Mosher | | 46:11 | “Flournoy’s development was one of the cooler things for the Cowboys this season.” | Marcus Mosher | | 48:40 | “That’s what football’s about to me...seeing a guy battle his tail off, push other guys off a cliff and...be reliable...” | Aisha Morrison | | 50:18 | “They got to decide, is there a spot on this team for a fullback? If the answer is no, move on from Luepke...” | Marcus Mosher |

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Important Timestamps Breakdown

• 03:20: Marcus on patience and the process for DC
• 04:38–07:16: Panel discussion: young vs experienced coordinators
• 13:17–15:17: Is DC job attractive? Pros and cons
• 19:32–23:20: Behind the scenes of NFL coaching interviews
• 29:00–44:30: Deep dive on George Pickens contract/franchise tag scenarios
• 45:30–48:40: Flournoy sleeper impact, WR depth
• 49:47–54:26: Luepke’s fit and fullback debate
• 59:52–61:32: Quarterback depth, Milton, and rookie options

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Tone and Panel Chemistry

• Fun, honest, and increasingly candid: Banter among Marcus, Aisha, and Stretch balances between playful jabs (“Why do you hate the young guys, Stretch?”) [06:55] and genuine football geek-outs (“Flournoy’s development...one of the cooler things for the Cowboys”).
• Aisha brings big-picture perspective: Consistently ties issues (e.g., teaching, detail orientation) back to modern football demands and player development.
• Coach (Stretch) gives big-game, old-school perspective: Injects hard-earned skepticism, experiences from inside the building, and priorities on “teaching” and “physicality.”

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Useful for Fans Who Didn’t Listen

• This episode provides a primer on the Cowboys’ search for a new DC, why they might be patient, and how big decisions fit into a wider team-building plan. The hosts weigh experience vs. “youthful energy” in coaching, call out specific strengths and needs on the roster, and address looming free-agent drama.

• For listeners wanting to understand how the process works in the NFL—from candidate interviews, to building a staff, to managing tricky negotiations with top talents like Pickens—this is an excellent snapshot of both the granular concerns and big-picture vision for the Cowboys’ offseason.

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Closing Notes

The hosts promise continued all-star game draft coverage and more updates as the coaching search continues. Landon McCool will join for the next episode, and Aisha teases her draft coverage content and ongoing education in scouting. The panel provides a mix of sharp analysis, insider wisdom, and lively Dallas Cowboys fandom.

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Listen again Thursday for more insights as the Cowboys’ offseason drama unfolds!

Transcript

[Jeff Biggs]

Foreign Podcast Network your team every day.

[Tyler Rowland]

This is Tyler Rowland from the Locked on Titans podcast. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I love how simple it is to pay using Apple Card with Apple Pay. It's built right into my iPhone so it's always ready to go. I was on vacation recently. I didn't even have to bring my wallet to the beach but plus I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase when I use my Apple card with Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch terms and.

[Marcus Mosher]

More at apple card.com new year same extra value meals at McDonald's so now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for just $8.

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[Jeff Biggs]

California and for delivery. I am Jeff Bigs and I am the host of the Cowboy Squad show and I am ready for a new defensive coordinator for the Cowboys.

[Marcus Mosher]

I am Marcus Moer and I am tired of the search being going on right now.

[Aisha Morrison]

I am Aisha Morrison and honestly I just want them to make a good pick and the longer that it's drawn out makes me less confident the pig's.

[Marcus Mosher]

Going to be good.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Lynn Stretch Smith I'm I'm all about patience in the D coordinator search because I have none in every other area of my life.

[Locked On Cowboys Promo Voice]

How about them Cowboys? It's the Cowboy Squad. Everything. Dallas Cowboys every week covering all the big hits and game changing plays from America's team. The way only, only the Locked on podcast network can get ready and squad up. It's the Cowboys Squad show starting now.

[Jeff Biggs]

And welcome. As you know the NFL's Final Four is all set but as we just said, the Cowboys search for a new defensive coordinator continues. The good news is we are back for another edition of the Cowboys Squad show. Great to be with you on this Tuesday night, not Monday, but we'll get back on track with that next week. But always we're going to start with a welcome to the co host of the daily Lockdown Cowboys podcast, Marcus Mosher. Good evening Marcus. Former Cowboys coach Glenn Stret Smith and she has so many shows I can't keep up with them. Fan favorite Aisha Morrison with two eyes. Make sure you get that part right. All right. Coming up on the show, the very latest with the Cowboys and their search for a new D.C. the NFL coaching carousel continues around the league and could there be a potential problem ahead with the George Pickens deal. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. We'll get into that. But, Marcus, want to start with you. Welcome back. Hope you had a good weekend. And so the DC search continues this week. We're in round two in person interviews. What do you know? What can you tell us?

[Marcus Mosher]

First of all, we should mention that the Cowboys aren't the only team that has a defensive coordinator opening right now. And I know this feels like it's a drawn out process, but there's literally, literally teams right now that are losing their defensive coordinator and they're going to have to start their search in the next couple weeks. Whether that's like the 49ers who just lost Robert Sala, I expect the Chargers to lose Jesse Minter. So don't get too worked up here that the Cowboys don't have a coordinator in place. It'll happen. You want to make sure you get the right guy because there's nothing worse than rushing this process just to have a guy in time for the Senior Bowl. And then you get to, you know, the practices and you realize that you have the wrong guy. I think that's what happened to Dallas last year.

[Jeff Biggs]

Ouch.

[Marcus Mosher]

As of right now, you've got Jonathan Gannon, who is, who had an interview today. Sounds like that's a potential option. Still think the Cowboys are holding out for Jim Leonard in Denver? They're gonna have to wait at least another week as the Broncos have advanced to the AFC Championship Game. And then we've got some other names, including Durante Jones of the Minnesota Vikings, who I know is somebody that's really impressed them. I don't think they've made any decisions. I don't think there's necessarily a front runner yet, but it does feel like we're inching closer to a decision.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah, I mean, mentor is an interesting name for me, too. We got to see what he's done with that Chargers defense down there. So I, I, I'm cool with them kind of, you know, waiting for some of these other guys that are, we're expecting to not be available to, for them to talk to them. But, you know, I'm not, I'd like. Is it Durante? Is it, did you say Durante Jones? Is that the name Jones?

[Marcus Mosher]

Yep.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yes. I saw a video of him just kind of talking about his scheme and what he expects and stuff. And so many of these guys, like, feel like teachers kind of how, you know, Shoddy is looking for. So I do think that they've cast a wide net, as we talked about, and I, I think I just got anxiety because I don't trust them. No offense. I, there's so many good options that it feels like, like you shouldn't mess this up.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah.

[Aisha Morrison]

But I do know that fans are very, you know, anxious about what's going on right now.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

The way I'm ready for patience in this thing because I want to see, I want to see some other more experienced guys. I want to hear Leslie Frazier, I want to hear, I want to hear Terrell Austin, I want to hear Jim Schwartz. I want to hear some other guys that have multiple years of experience in the National Football League that know how to really coach the secondary, because I think that's the biggest problem and it's always been my biggest issue. I don't care what defense you're playing. I don't care if you're playing a 4 3, a 34, a Jack Crow 61 diamond. I don't give a crap. I want it coordinated correctly on the back end with what you're doing on the front end. I don't want, I don't want some whiz kid drawing a bunch of crap on the back of a cocktail napkin telling me how it's going to work. I'm, I'm off of that. I want somebody who can show me and most importantly knows how to teach the technique. I'm, I, I, I'd be for going to see if you could get somebody like Jerry Gray from Atlanta, who's been a long time secondary guy. I, I, I, There's a lot of guys to me that I haven't seen come up on this search that I, that I want to see before they pull the trigger.

[Marcus Mosher]

Why do you hate the young guys, Stretch?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I, I don't hate. It's nothing about hating young guys. I don't, I don't, I don't hate young guys. But I, but the other thing I don't do is I don't put a day one graduate from West Point in charge of, of, you know, a mission in Iraq. Speak on it, Aisha. You know what the deal is? I don't want to see that.

[Aisha Morrison]

I mean, I get it. I, but I, I also think, like, I understand that you want someone that's tenured, experienced and all those things, but then I also on the, on the inverse of things, we've seen guys be, you know, still wet between behind the ears and come in and make an impact on teams. I mean, I, I understand coming up through the ranks and all that stuff, but if a guy's earned his shot he's not gonna earn his other shot until somebody gives him a shot. So I, I do think, like, every guy, Every guy that is a guy that we love, some. Somebody gave them a shot. So.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

But. But I, I've got it. I've got a.

[Aisha Morrison]

You don't got time for that.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I've got a quarterback that's got a few years.

[Tyler Rowland]

I don't, I don't.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I don't have young guy. I don't. I don't have time for the learning curve.

[Aisha Morrison]

Can I ask you something, Marcus? Jeff, this is something I've heard people say multiple times, and this is no slight to you. Coach, why the hell does everybody keep saying that? We. The quarterback only has a couple years. I mean, is it contractual? Are we talking about his physical ability? Because I don't see a quarterback, especially given the things that he's able to do from the pocket, as a processor, as a field general. Those guys have tenure in the NFL. I mean, he's not running as much. He's not as physically, you know, taxing on his body. So I don't know. I don't understand why everyone feels like. I get, like I said, from the window, the contracts, all that stuff. Sure. But as far as his physical ability, I don't see a quarterback that's about to be out, like, not still playing well in three years. I mean, is that what you see, Marcus? Is that what you said? All right, well, I, I, Am I misunderstanding?

[Marcus Mosher]

No, I, I agree with you both, actually. I, I think Doc is going to be able to play well into his 30s.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah.

[Marcus Mosher]

But I think in terms of, like, him being able to play at a very, very high level, that you're going to be able to win multiple playoff games with. He turns 33 in July. That's not old for a quarterback. But once you start getting to be 35, 36, 37, you. I, I know he's not mobile right now, but you start losing a little bit of that mobility, you start wanting to get hit a little bit less, you're a little bit less willing to stand in the pocket. I think. I think three years is really the max that we're looking for here. But I'm. I'm kind of with. With Stretch here. Like, if the NFL is all about windows, and it feels very much to me like the next two years are the window that you have with Dak, you have with this young offensive line that's under contract. And Coach, to your point about patience, one of the reasons why you might want to be patient here is a guy like Jim Schwarz who's interviewing for the Cleveland job. If he doesn't get the Cleveland job, he might suddenly be an option for you as a defensive coordinator job. Another example, another one, awesome option in.

[Aisha Morrison]

Gym sports as well. Like.

[Marcus Mosher]

Yeah, Raheem Morris is another one.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah.

[Aisha Morrison]

Have you guys heard anything, have you guys heard anything about any of Raheem Morris's interviews or anything? I feel like I haven't heard. I think I saw something a day about his name, but I have not heard his name through the waves. I think as much as I expected to. What about you, Marcus?

[Marcus Mosher]

No, I, I've heard through the, the grapevine that he could be potentially somebody that goes on TV for a little bit. He's very personable. I think he would do really well. And maybe for his sake, after being a head coach for a couple years, he wants to take a year off. He's gonna have his choice of whatever defensive coordinator job he wants. We'll see. I think he's going to be really picky about this next job.

[Aisha Morrison]

Okay.

[Jeff Biggs]

And there was, I think, maybe an option if Shula left the Rams to get the job in Miami, but he didn't. So I don't know where that leaves Raheem Morris, but we'll see. Let me ask you guys this. Refresh my Cowboys organizational memory. If does whoever the candidate end up being, did they have to interview in person this week or could we see a bunch of people interview, but they could ultimately go with somebody else? How has it worked?

[Marcus Mosher]

Traditionally, I believe if a candidate is still coaching right now, they cannot do an in person interview. So that means you're going to have to wait on Jim Leonard. And I think Leonard in the case he's going to be obviously working all week for Denver, he might not be open to even a virtual meeting. So again, this is why they're going to be patient here because I do think they want to talk to Leonard and maybe they want to talk to some of these other defensive guys out there that are currently under contract.

[Jeff Biggs]

Okay, well, we'll see. We don't. I guess we just wait and see which, which names that we hear from. I mean, they're, they're, they don't appear to be in a rush, I think, to what you have all said. They want to make sure they get the right guy. I was going to ask you, though, about Leonard specifically. He seems, I mean, he's got a great resume. Great. You know, from a walk on player and the whole, whole story. And you had mentioned that he was Kind of boys with, with shot. I'm wondering how much that could play into it ultimately.

[Marcus Mosher]

Yeah, I mean, I. Relationships are very important in the NFL. We don't talk about this enough that we would love for the best candidates to get hired in every spot, but that's not always the case. And that's why there's 17 Kubaks that are interviewing for head coaching job right now. Because names do matter. Right? But yeah, I mean, a lot of times that you hire people that you've either worked, worked with before or, or you work with their dad or, you know, the family. And I think Leonard is somebody that Schottenheimer is familiar with. The only thing is though, there's a lot of other coaches out there that are looking for defensive coordinators who are also familiar with Jim Leonard, including an in division rival in John Harbaugh who had him on his team back in, I believe 2008. So we'll, we'll wait and see on Jim Leonard.

[Jeff Biggs]

I don't know if this is. I, I feel kind of silly even asking you, but I read something today that the question was posed, is the Cowboys defensive coordinator job not attractive or would somebody might be hesitant because of the organizational structure, but then on the other hand, I mean, the Cowboys are the Cowboys.

[Marcus Mosher]

I mean, I, I coach, I want to ask you that. What do you think, do you think this is an attractive job for an up and coming defensive coordinator candidate?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I mean, if, maybe for an up and coming guy, it's, I mean, it's not a very good job. I mean it's, If I, if I sat here and gave you a list of the jobs that are open right now, do you, do you think it's a great job? It's a 500 football team with not very good talent on that side of the ball.

[Marcus Mosher]

Can I, can I tell you why I think it is?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, because it's. Because it's going to be 70 degrees Monday after having an ice storm here this weekend. That's why.

[Aisha Morrison]

Glenn, please, please.

[Marcus Mosher]

It's. It's currently minus 14 up here, so I feel so terrible for you.

[Aisha Morrison]

Where you at?

[Marcus Mosher]

It's North Pole.

[Aisha Morrison]

You ain't got something.

[Marcus Mosher]

Here's why I do think it's, it's somewhat attractive because if you can get this unit to be average, everybody's going to think that you did an awesome job. Right?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Absolutely.

[Marcus Mosher]

Because the expectations are so low and you're going to have, I think two first round picks on that defense that you're going to be able to draft and mold to your defense, you have an offense that's going to take a lot of the pressure off you. So if you can get this defense to only give up 24 points a game, you create some timely turnovers, all of a sudden that coach is going to get a lot of credit. Whereas if you take another job where, let's say you take the. The Buffalo job and you are a top 10 defense all year, if your defense is 12th, it's going to look like you're a bad coach and that you actually took a step backwards. So I do think this is an intriguing job because you can't get any worse than what it was last year.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah, I think. I think what coach is saying, too, and I agree with you too, Marcus, but I also think what coach is saying is, like, the leg work that it's going to take is, you know, more extensive than some of these other places that already have more talent and stuff like that, but kind of being able to set your, you know, call your shot and be able to draft and those things might be appealing. Can I ask y' all something about it? The other day, we ain't been talking about it, and I know we talk about defensive coordinators, but I just want to know, are either one of you gentlemen shocked that Dallas is not trying to make a change at special teams coordinator? I'm gonna coach.

[Marcus Mosher]

I would have been up for a new special teams coordinator, but clearly they want to give Nick Sorenson another shot. Another shot here. Yes.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Let me ask you this. How do you know they're not.

[Aisha Morrison]

How do.

[Marcus Mosher]

Because they would. I mean, I would assume that they would have been doing interviews. Right. But you can't really do interviews.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

What are you gonna do? What about. So you're saying you think the defensive back coach is coming back?

[Aisha Morrison]

No. I guess that makes sense, but I guess that makes sense to some extent. You know, stretch maybe, like. Because the other part I know because that's a whole nother unit. I'm just asking, like, are y' all happ with special teams and should they be? Are they.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Here's what I know is there's. I guess Danny Smith filled one. Well, that would.

[Marcus Mosher]

That.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

That head job wasn't even open. So you got. There's. They're going to be special teams coordinators going everywhere. I. I don't know. That he hasn't been told, I guess is the point I'm making. You know, maybe you want to look for another job. I don't know. I don't know if he has been, but I don't know if he has it.

[Aisha Morrison]

When does that normally happen though? Like what would be the point in, if you, if you are going to tell him to go gone somewhere, what would be the point in keeping him through this part, through this part of the process? Or tell us the timeline. How's it normally, how do you know?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I guess what I'm asking is, is do you know he's part of the process right now?

[Aisha Morrison]

That's my point. It's like nobody's verbalized as he is or if he is or not. Like we've just heard the coach, the head coach and people speak highly of him, which I think the assumption from there would be. Okay, well maybe they're gonna keep him but I'm, that's what I'm saying. Are you guys getting any whiffs that that might be changed or anything?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I haven't heard anything. But I, but again I, I, I only go with how my experience went there, which was I wasn't initially fired. I was told during this process right here, go find yourself a job. Okay. So you clean your office out and you go explore getting another job. And I'm going to tell you that I truly believe that there are multiple guys on this staff right now who have been told, go find yourself another job. That's, that's my belief because that's my experience and how it was handled previously. And what makes me think it hasn't been that, that it hasn't or has been changed?

[Aisha Morrison]

Okay, I'm tracking, I was just being nosy because it was something I was thinking about and I was like, has anyone heard anything? Especially given if we're talking about the defensive performance. I mean the special teams unit. We, I expected for the special teams unit to take a drop because you lost guys in free agency and stuff that were intricate. There was injuries and then also too you lost. Bones was one of the best in the business. You know, like John Fossil helped create a lot of the rules. I mean he's the one that really sought out your all pro kicker and your returner. I mean this guy, he understands special teams. So I thought that you would take a drop in, you know, not having him. But it wasn't good this year. Like it, it wasn't good this year. So I'm just numbers wise. It looks like it kind of was, but I don't think it was. What do you think, Marcus, about special teams and sorry, it was bad. I'm not trying to it was anywhere else.

[Marcus Mosher]

I'm just, it was, it was bad. Bones Fossil is A free agent. I would be calling him, seeing if he enjoyed his time in the Dallas area. But again, maybe, maybe he wants to stay in Tennessee. Maybe he wants to link up with Robert Sala. We'll see.

[Aisha Morrison]

Okay, thank you.

[Jeff Biggs]

Coach. Real quick, do you have any good interview process memories from yourself back in the day? Like what are the interviews? Like what, what, what really goes on? Is it.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, well, they, I mean they normally they bring guys in and then you've got, you know, at that time there was Jerry Stephen, the offensive coordinator, one or two of the position coaches on the offensive side. And at that time it was Larry Lacewell who's involved in the personnel side. They pick your brain. They want to know what you think about the personnel that they have. And then they're going to get up and they're going to ask you to get up on the board and they're going to tell you or they're going to ask you what, what you like to do. At the time I was working with the tight ends. What do you like to do from a run game standpoint? What do you believe in from a passing game standpoint? How is it that you run a six man protection versus an overfront versus a 34 front versus an Okie front? I mean, you know, they, they put you through the gauntlet of being able to have, you know, confidence in a meeting room because ultimately that's what you're going to have to do. Once the breakout process happens in an offensive staff meeting, you have to go then run your meeting room and they want to see how that would be. They want to see what your retention is like. They might say if you draw up a six man protection or seven man protection, they might say what are your thoughts about bringing the center or the guard uncovered out of the core of the protection? If they do, what are your thoughts to 4 week, how do you like the hot adjust? I mean all of the things that you would go through from a schematical standpoint. And then they're going to probably tell you a few things and they're, then they're going to say, okay, now here's how we run this scat protection. Here's how we want to read this now. Tell us what you do versus this. And then they want to see how you retain, how you grasp the retention and how can you put it up there? So I don't think that process has changed a whole lot. I think guys still come in and they put guys on the board and, and get familiarity with what you have. The key for me, has always been. And. And, you know, all I have is my point of reference is how do you teach? What is it that you teach? And are you able to teach that to. To young people today? Are you able to get them to understand? I mean, I'll give you the Miami game last night. I mean, the. The Miami receiver runs a hitch route, and the first thing he does stand straight up, well, hell, that Pawns kid punches him right in the chest. I mean, he just shows him his number. I mean, like, everything that I would say about running a hitch was almost like opposite of what. What was done in that scenario. Gotta run with your shoulders over your toes. You can't show them your numbers, right? So all the things that you want to teach to me are so very important. And I think that's what today's game is missing a little bit, is teaching the finer points. I get it. You want somebody that's got great schemes, and I get it. You want somebody that you know is gonna bring certain blitzes and do all that, but you've got to be able to. To teach and to tell guys what it is that you want them to do. And I think that's the part that's being forgotten.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, great answer, coach. Appreciate that. Great insight. And we will. We will continue to wait. Hurry up and wait. And we'll watch how the process unfolds. The good news is we have two shows during the week, and Marcus and Landon, you got ears every day. And as I said, Aisha, you're all over the place. So we will have you covered as we determine. As they determine who they want to pick for their new defensive coordinator. All right, when we come back, get a little interesting George Pickens update and also want to get your thoughts on a couple of other moves and a criticism I saw of Jerry Jones that has nothing to do with this. We'll do that when we come back. This is the Cowboys squad show. All right, I want to talk to you about. Indeed. Because if you've ever hired someone who looked good on paper but wasn't the right fit, you know how important that is when you want candidates who truly match what you're looking for. Trust. Indeed. Sponsored Jobs Hiring indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other sites. Indeed. Sponsored Jobs. Put your post at the top of the page and help you reach the right candidates faster. Now a couple of highlights that they. They do. Number one. Instead of, you know, kind of struggling to get your job seen by people, right? Indeed. Sponsored Jobs helps you list and helps your listing stand out and reach quality candidates faster. And they have this sponsored Jobs boost which to your post, it gets it to the people who are the best match for your role and that really makes a difference. And then according to Indeed data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored jobs. So spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes with less stress, less time and more results. Using Indeed Sponsored Jobs, listeners of this Show Get a $75 sponsored job credit to help give you your job the premium placement it deserves@ Indeed.com lockonnfl just go to Indeed.com lockedonnfl right now and support the show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. And we need to talk a little bit also about Robin Hood and what they've got going on there. Because with Robin Hood, what if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robin Hood. Prediction markets. Now, it's not you against the house. It's it's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robinhood Prediction Markets changes the game. It's people moving the action. So when the momentum shifts, you can move with it. Now you know the game, but maybe you never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge, right? Well, now you can. You can actually take part in it. Live in a market powered by people, you're no longer just a spectator. Play by play, you decide. So take every play with Robinhood trade every play with Robinhood. Now available across the U.S. download the Robinhood app now to begin futures and cleared swaps. Trading involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contacts are offered by Robinhood llc, a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. All right, we're back. Cowboy squad show Marcus Mosher, coach Glenn Stretch Smith and Aisha Morrison with two eyes. Real quick, Aisha, I heard one of your other shows and when you were talking about the defensive coordinator search, you said, I think, I think the word he used was intricate. What do you mean, what do you mean by that? Break that down for us.

[Aisha Morrison]

I mean, I think I'm saying exactly what coach is saying is that, you know, I want, I really want how many, I don't know how many times this week we. Well, this week, this year we saw guys like. And Marcus, maybe you can attest to this where it's like technique look weird with guys that don't haven't had problem with like technique. It was just odd. And furthermore too I want someone that is intricate and is very into the details because the offenses are these days. I mean there's so many things going on within these different offensive schemes and stuff. I want someone that really cares about the matchup game. I want a competitor, I don't want nobody just that's gonna sit up there and we're gonna run this scheme and this is what we're gonna do. No, I want a game planner. Someone that cares and I mean clipboard, I call them clipboard warriors. No offense coach, but clipboard warriors, hey, sometimes they win you games, they lose you games and I want someone that gives a damn about the game to game and not just what they stand on. So I'm, I basically have been saying what coach is saying. It's like details, give it. I can't cuss. Give a crap. Like for real, I can't cuss on her. But yeah, that's really the gist of what I was saying on the show.

[Jeff Biggs]

Okay, right on. Well said. We'll see. As we've mentioned, you know, we talked a little bit last week guys about George Pickens and his looming contract, right? Well, ESPN's Jeremy Fowler, for whatever that's worth says the Cowboys are expected the franchise tag Pickens which would pay him around 28 million next season. But Pickens will want a long term deal above that number. And if Dallas doesn't give it to him, some around the league wonder if he'll stay away from training camp. And we kind of hit on that. What do you, what do you think of that and do you think that they can get something done and avoid any of this before we get to that point? I know.

[Marcus Mosher]

Because it's just, it's just regurgitated news that we've been talking about for three months now. And because facts ESPN person says that it's. This isn't a shot at you, Jeff, because this is just the way that it is. Suddenly it's big news. But no, I mean we've known for months now that the Cowboys plan was to franchise George Pickens. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to play on the tag. That's just a placeholder so he doesn't hit free agency in March. I think they're going to be talking all summer long. Hopefully this doesn't drag into training camp because you want him on the field in many camps and OTAs. Again, I think both sides are motivated to get a deal done. I don't think they want to go through the same thing they did with Micah last offseason. So I, again, Jeff, I'm sorry, it's just, it's okay. No real, there's no real difference in terms of news from what we've heard for the last three months here.

[Jeff Biggs]

Let me just say this Aisha real quick. But I, I think because of what happened with Micah and the fact that they have the same agent, I mean it, I think it's a, it's a fair game to bring it up that you know, 100.

[Marcus Mosher]

But real quick.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah.

[Marcus Mosher]

There is a difference between Micah and George Pickens as players and as prospects because Micah Parsons is, was a multi time first team all pro edge rusher who was never available. Right. Over the last four years who suddenly became available late into training camp right before the season. Whereas George Pickens was just available for trade 12 months ago. The Steelers were trying to trade him like crazy through the entire league at this time last year and nobody was interested outside of the Cowboys. That's where I think David Mologhetta knew that he had leverage because Micah would have been. Every team wants a Micah Parsons. I'm not so sure that every team is going to be interested in paying George Pickens that type of money.

[Aisha Morrison]

I mean I don't have anything to say. I, I, I know we've already talked about like them franchise tagging him and just how that looks and things like that. I hope it goes well. One thing I will say from being boots on ground and being around here, man, the OC and what I mean by OC is Clayton Adams play caller quarterback, very much so. Are adamant about this person being on this team and, and if we're talking, go ahead. Sorry.

[Marcus Mosher]

Do you think the team felt the same about Micah last year?

[Aisha Morrison]

You missy.

[Marcus Mosher]

I mean I'm just asking because I, I, you are right on Pickens. I think CD Lamb loves him. Dak Prescott loves him. Clearly the coaching staff does as well. I'm not so sure there was a consensus to make sure that Micah is back next year, you know, back the following year.

[Aisha Morrison]

And it's gonna be a, it was a mixed bag. That's all I'm saying. It was a mixed bag and I.

[Marcus Mosher]

Think that's what's ultimately going to be the reason why Pickens is back and why Micah's playing in Green Bay.

[Aisha Morrison]

What do you think, Coach?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I mean I, I think opinions change often. I think guys want certain players to buy in and to be all into the process and I think when guys start to you know, kind of, I don't want to say, you know, kind of waffle in the process then I think people's opinions really change. George Pickens, a hell of a football player. I mean, there's no question about that. But you gotta, you know, at some point guys have to fit in to, to, to a team mentality. That's, I don't think people talk enough about. Tom Brady could have certainly got more money through free agency had he gone somewhere else. But he wanted, he so wanted that football team to be a dynasty that he took less. And he sacrificed a lot from a financial standpoint. And it's just, you know, I don't want to say guys aren't that way, but you know, it's, it's hard to find guys that are that way.

[Aisha Morrison]

I mean, I think it also too is contingent on like what else they got going on outside of football. You know, like I said, hear me out. And I mean, guys, I, I'm never, I'm not the person to talk about a player's money or tell them to take less or anything like that. What I'm saying is, is that, you know, Tom, Tom taking less. Yes, I thought it was admirable and things like that. But he also had things going outside of football as well where he also had flexible income in that sense. So I think it's contingent.

[Marcus Mosher]

He used to at least. Yes.

[Aisha Morrison]

You messy.

[Marcus Mosher]

Well, coach, I want to ask you this quick question. When you were, I mean, I know you weren't in charge of, you know, personnel moves and stuff, but whenever the guy became available, isn't the first thing that these front office do is they go back to their pre draft scouting reports and kind of check in on what grade they gave the player, some of the background stuff. And I think when a lot of people come back to George Pickens, if he ever were to become a free agent, that's the first thing they were going to do. And we remember at the time there were a lot of teams that had George Pickens off their draft boards. I don't think suddenly things are going to change where you feel comfortable giving that guy $38 million a year unless you had him in your building.

[Aisha Morrison]

So you don't think that, so you don't think that a player can like flip the script. You think, yes, they are coming out in the draft is what they will continue to be like.

[Marcus Mosher]

No, you can.

[Aisha Morrison]

To grow, you can.

[Marcus Mosher]

But I think it has to be in the situation, like it's happened with Dallas where it's, you're coming here on a cheap one year deal. You proved yourself and now we give you a deal. I just have a hard time in. Coach, I really want you to talk about definitely no, no, you're good. How much do you rely on those pre draft evaluations when it comes to free agency and trades?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

They're going to go back and look at that. They're going to go back and look at all the information that they have gathered. They're going to go back and say, I mean that's why it's so important. You know, when these guys go, you know, go to the combine and different teams interview them. I mean that interview leaves a lasting impression for a long time and I think it's, I think that's very important. I think. Do guys go in and, and look up scouting reports and look at what was said and look at what the area guys said? Absolutely, they do. So is it done? Yes. How much credence is put into that? How much, how much do they really, you know, how much do they buy into, let's say off the field stuff versus what you've seen on tape? I hope not a lot. But certainly, I mean, certainly they do. I mean I, you know, I have a million stories about things that Jason Garrett's dad used to come in and say and you know, and, and, and write down on reports and hey, all of that is, goes into the making of putting the puzzle together. Is it a bigger piece, is it a smaller piece? You know that it's, it's, it's, it's depends on how, you know, Will McClay and those guys see those things is if they're really feel strong about, you know, taking a guy and really standing on the table for a guy. And it's hard for people to do because guess what, if you do it and you're wrong, you get run out of there. I mean that's just, that's part of it. So it's a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a very teeter totter process.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, when we come back, we will pick it up with Pickens. One final thought and then a couple other things I want to run by you as well, including, you know, one thing we haven't talked about at all is the Cowboys schedule for next season, who they're going to play. I know that's not urgent right now, but we'll get into that and also want to ask you about a different Cowboys receiver who received some praise today. We'll do that when we come back. This is the Cowboys squad show.

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[Jeff Biggs]

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[Marcus Mosher]

Let me ask you this, Jeff. You're. You're not wrong. I mean that the goal of an agent is to get their client the most money possible. Right. Shout out to my agent. Jamie does a great job, but is the goal, I know, Is the goal to get him the Most money in 2026 or is the goal for him to make the most money over the course of his career? Because I do think that matters. And I think what you could potentially see here is a short term deal, maybe a two year deal that matches up with the kind of the remaining of the remainder of Dak Prescott's prime, allow him to hit free agency again and let's say 2028 when he's 27 years old and get another massive payday. I wouldn't be surprised if that's ultimately how this plays out.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah, I think the franchise tag is safe for both sides. I mean, I think it's, I would think it would be smart for both sides for exactly what Marcus was talking about. It gives you more time to negotiate, it gives you more time to figure things out. And also too, with the franchise tag, he's probably going to be making close to, you know, what he probably deserves. I, I mean, when Dallas has franchise tag players, they typically pay them about what the market says. I mean, even Tony Pollard, I remember the other year, got with the 10 mil and everybody was looking like, what's going on here? But that's what the market called for. So when Dallas has used the franchise tag, I, I don't like seeing it. I know players hate it and stuff, but from my understanding, it has been pretty within the numbers, like on par with what they should be getting paid. Well, I think it's safe. I mean, I think it's good. I think the franchise tag will work right now for both sides.

[Marcus Mosher]

And that's why, Aisha, I will not be surprised. So the number this year at the franchise tag is 28 million. Right. If you give them another franchise tag in 2027, it would be roughly like 32 million. Let's just go with those numbers. Would it be surprising to see the Cowboys give Pickens a 2 year, 65 million dollar deal with 95 of that guaranteed? Not at all. Because that's basically the equivalent of two franchise tags. You're just getting the deal done and adding an extra year on top of it. That and again, Pickens is so young that he could hit the market again at age 27 and get him again if he's on his best behavior, if he puts up two big seasons, that's three great years in a row. And now you're talking about being the highest paid receiver in the NFL. Once the new TV money comes in so suddenly, instead of taking a long term deal now where you're getting paid, let's say an average of 30 million a year, $32 million a year. If you wait two years, you might be able to get a deal that's averaging $45 million a year with the way that inflation goes up. So I think David Mulligetta is going to play this thing pretty close to the vest, but don't be surprised if he's back on a short term deal.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So is that. Are you saying this year and two more years is that.

[Marcus Mosher]

I'm thinking this year 2026 and then 2027 and then he hits free agency again in 2028, which is with no franchise tags or anything like that, where he probably would be the top receiver.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

On the market on parallel with the quarterback in his prime years.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Today's wardrobe was provided by Hoodie, provided by New Era.

[Marcus Mosher]

I think that makes sense for the Cowboys, right? Line everything up to really go forward in this window.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Exactly right.

[Marcus Mosher]

If you mess, if, if you miss it, that's fine. You're completely setting. You know, you're rebuilding this team. You don't care about Pickens moving on in 2028.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Correct. You're gonna hit, you're, you're, you're gonna probably hit the reset button anyway, right?

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah. Hopefully you've developed somebody else in that time too. So.

[Marcus Mosher]

Yeah, Malachi, Tony's gonna look great in a Cowboy uniform. Can't wait.

[Jeff Biggs]

Well, speaking of receivers, how about. Pff, naming Ryan Floyd the underrated impact player or one of them. I mean, I kind of felt like it, just not just with him, but I felt like with the Cowboys offense, I felt like they there's a lot more there that we didn't get to see. It felt like they were still just most of the season still trying to kind of figure everything out. And they never really became a. To me just they had moments, but I mean just a complete on the same page dominant in control offense that I think they're capable of and I'm hoping that, you know, we'll see that in year number two.

[Marcus Mosher]

First of all, good article by Pro Football Focus. They only hire the smartest people out there. They do incredible work. Yeah, wink, wink. Yeah, I mean, I think Flournoy's development I worked at PFF for a while, in case you guys didn't know. I think Ryan Flournoy's development was a really big bright spot for the Cowboys this year. So much so that someone like Jalen Tolbert, who had 500 yards in 2024, you're not even thinking about re signing him in free agency. You're not even thinking about the whiff of Jonathan Mingo in the trade because Flournoy exceeded all expectations. And if something were to happen with Pickens where you, you have to move on or you trade him and you go into the season with CD Lamb and Ryan Flournoy, you don't suddenly feel like you're the Buffalo Bills and have no weapons. You feel pretty good about where you're at at wide receiver. I think Florida's development was one of the cooler things for the Cowboys this season.

[Aisha Morrison]

Well, I totally agree. It was fun just seeing him battle. I don't know if you guys remember, he was one of the last guys to make that 53 battled his tail off during preseason. The work that he does on special teams, the work that he does as an outside blocker, being involved in the run game. And just when you talk about like you know, the cow like with the Cowboys offense, with CD Lamb and Pickens, you know, just imagine how stressful it is for. Because that's the thing that I took from him this year is that he was just reliable. He was just there, you know. And when people are trying to shade coverage and trying to do all this other stuff, having that guy, another guy that can win on on his own and that can also to sit in zones and get has yakability. How stressing does that have to be for a defense that it's like, yeah, sure, we could cover CD and Pickens perfectly. But this guy right here, Floy, he's gonna kill you on third down because he's just in the right place at the right time and he's pretty sure handed for the most part. So I agree with you, Marcus. I think that his development has been awesome. I've enjoyed it because I feel like seeing a guy like him. That's what football's about to me is seeing a guy battle his tail off, push other guys off of a cliff and not only do that, but be reliable through the season. Now, I think you, you, he took a little too far. I don't know if I'm ready to see him in a number two role. Not yet, but we'll see what, what this year looks like, how much of a step he takes. And you know, they used him on some jet sweeps and into rounds and stuff. I mean, I agree with Jeff. I do think that there's parts of this offense that they haven't gotten unlock and a lot of it had to do to me with the run game.

[Marcus Mosher]

Yeah.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah.

[Aisha Morrison]

What you got, coach?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Nothing.

[Marcus Mosher]

Just scratches butt over scratching your ass. Look at that face by Stretch. Just stone cold nothing. It is cold there. Now he's probably.

[Aisha Morrison]

Is that a joke? Is that a joke or something? Y' all be talking about him stretching.

[Marcus Mosher]

His ass all the time.

[Jeff Biggs]

That's out of the coach.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, because that's what, that's what about. That's what about 3/4 of these people on this show do. Sit around, scratch your ass. Stretch.

[Aisha Morrison]

He crazy.

[Jeff Biggs]

And, but, but back to what you were saying. I, I just, I felt like his season and the way that he progressed over the season and the way that he finished the season were truly one of the bright spots. But you know, I remember, we remember during training camp, Shoddy was talking about using Hunter Lipke a lot more. It didn't really feel a couple games that really. I don't know, like, I just, I. I don't know how else to articulate it other than I feel like there's a lot more to this offense than what we saw this season, that they can do even better and be more dominant.

[Aisha Morrison]

Do you all have any questions about that coach? Like they signed Lipke. I thought that his role would increase in certain ways, especially with Dallas, like needing a second runner in certain times. He's shown you some of what he can do in the receiving game. I was surprised that his usage this year. And again, I know a lot of the work he was doing was like extra offensive lineman type stuff, but were either one of y' all like disappointed in the output from him this, this year in his usage?

[Marcus Mosher]

I was, I thought when they signed him to a deal before the season.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

We.

[Marcus Mosher]

You're going to see him used in more in that h. Back role, you know, either catching passes out of the backfield as a short yardage runner. And we got to like Thanksgiving and I think he had six touches up to that point. So, yeah, I, I think we were sold a bill of goods that he was going to be this, you know, impactful player. Wasn't the case. And I think they got to decide, is there a spot on this team for a fullback? If the answer is no, move on from Lipke because roster spots are too valuable to have. A guy that doesn't get touches on offense isn't playing on third downs and there's really only a special teamer.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah, right. But was he a good special teamer? I mean, we've already talked about that. Here's the thing is that guy has to be whoever that guy is, that he has to be a demon on special teams. The special teams weren't very good this year. We talked about the coaching side of it or the personnel side of it, I think is an issue too.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

So was he, was he really as productive in, in those, you know, 10, 12 snaps of the football game? Because the other six or eight snaps that he got in the game, he showed you. He got run over twice in passport protection that I can remember. He fumbled the ball once down on a short yardage in a goal line situation. Is he really physical enough to be a lead guy? Because, you know, I like, if you're gonna continue to play blue, I think blue would be really good in, in, in a, in a lead situation where he's got a full back up in front of him to lead it in there. So I, I think there's some, I think you got to take into mind all of the, where he played, but certainly if, if you look at his production, you know, throughout the year, this year, or did you, did you get what you felt like you should have got in a bang for the buck scenario?

[Aisha Morrison]

I don't think you could feel like that. I mean, and honestly, that's kind of been. Unfortunately, his career is. You know, he was one of the highest paid. I remember the COVID in the draft in which he came out of. He's one of the highest paid undrafted free agents that the Cowboys paid in the NFL, period. And you know, it was another. The usage with him, with the McCarthy regime was the same. And so it's just like, well, what is, what is this guy? I'm trying to figure out if this is like coaches decisions or this ability, because I don't think that this kid is not a smart kid, I'm saying. But it's like you said, coach, is he physical enough to go in there and really lead block consistently for you? What is he? Do you want to use him as a running back or what? Like, what do you want to do? And then you're giving him touches randomly. He's freaking cold. Like, there's. He's not in a rhythm at all. And then you just like, oh, yeah, here. Third. Huge third down. Here's the ball. Like, I know guys have to be ready, but it's like, I. I don't know what's going on with him. I'm very curious, especially hearing, you know, Marcus, like, we heard Schottenheimer speak so highly of him, but, like, before the season started, I just don't understand it, like, because Mike McCarthy did the same thing.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Love.

[Aisha Morrison]

On the lift. Love how it works. Love.

[Marcus Mosher]

And then McCarthy.

[Jeff Biggs]

I like that.

[Aisha Morrison]

Oh, yeah. I've been working on it.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Marcus, what's the big guy's name for the Chargers that plays fullback?

[Marcus Mosher]

They got a couple of them.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

A big 44, though.

[Marcus Mosher]

Matlock.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Yeah. Like, how would you. Just right off the top of your head, how would you compare those two guys?

[Marcus Mosher]

Well, Matlock's about 65 pounds heavier. He's a much better blocker.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I'm not talking about the. I'm not talking about measurement, like, ability. I'm talking about production.

[Marcus Mosher]

Matlock doesn't get any carries, doesn't catch the ball, but he's a better player.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

And do they get more out of him from a special team standpoint?

[Marcus Mosher]

Different, Right? He's not on, like, kick coverage or anything like that, but he's on the field goal units and on, you know, block units. It's different.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

But what about use Check.

[Marcus Mosher]

Much better player, but worse blocker than Lipke, but a better overall player.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

They move him all over the offense. I mean, he's all over the place. So, you know, I mean, when the coaches talk about how smart he is, is. I guess my question is, are they using him to. To the best of his tools? Are they moving him? Are they getting him in position to be successful or, you know, do they have other calls that they like better than, say, you know, getting him the ball in certain situations where in San Francisco, they're trying to get the ball in his hands?

[Jeff Biggs]

All right.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Sorry to bother you.

[Aisha Morrison]

No, no, it's. I'm. I want to know what y' all thinking, because I was sitting up here looking at it. All season. Like dang. I mean you already have a you in a running back crisis, low key, you know, behind you. You had to, you literally had somebody come from practice squad that you had released to come run the ball for you and you have literally another running back on your roster. Like yes, this gentleman does do lift, he does do fullback things, but that baby is a running back.

[Jeff Biggs]

So yeah, I don't think he had one.

[Aisha Morrison]

Like the fact that we did not see him more after you literally went out to sign another guy. I just, I, I don't know what's going on. I can't wait to find out more. What is this?

[Jeff Biggs]

Thank you, Aisha. Coach Marcus, we'll leave that there for now. We'll take our final time out and when we come back, some final thoughts as we wrap it up. Look at the schedule a little bit. But also I want to ask you a quarterback question. We'll do that coming back. This is the Cowboys squad show.

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[Jeff Biggs]

And this episode is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel is officially in playoff mode every game during the NFL playoffs. FanDuel is giving customers even more ways to get in on the action. Because right now, every NFL playoff game day, FanDuel users get a Profit Boost pack waiting for them inside the app. Each game day you'll see a pack loaded with multiple profit boosts you can apply to the bets that you like the most. And here's what you do. You open your Profit Boost pack first thing on game day and you see what boosts you want to apply. And the cool thing about the boosts? They let you lean into your game day instincts and whether you're backing momentum, defense, quarterback, player, coaching. The boosts give you more juice on the bets that you already like instead of forcing you to bet something new. Every play feels bigger and the boosts make your bets feel that way too. So you make your picks apply the profit boost to go after even bigger payouts while the playoffs are rolling. So visit FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, and grab your Profit Boost pack every NFL playoff game day. Okay, final Segment here on the Cowboys Squad show. Marcus, what, what, what can we look forward to on the daily Lockdown Cowboys podcast? And man, you. I've noticed this week, and with all this going on, you guys are getting a lot of. A lot of comments, a lot of feedback on your shows.

[Marcus Mosher]

Well, it's probably because Cowboy fans are angry and they're watching these playoff games and they're wishing that their team was in it. I don't blame them at all. But we've got a busy week of shows, including how the Cowboys can rebuild this team outside of just fixing their defense. There are a couple things on offense that they've got to improve if they want to take the next step as a franchise. So be on the look for that, on the lookout for that on Wednesday. And then we've got some draft shows for you guys later in the week. We're already diving into prospects. We've got the East West Shrine bowl practices that start later in the week. We've got the Senior bowl next week. We're going to get you ready for those big events in which the Cowboys have coaching staffs at both games. We'll get you ready for a very important week of all star practices this week and next week.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah, gonna be boots on the ground for the Shrine, by the way.

[Marcus Mosher]

So there you go.

[Jeff Biggs]

What was the consensus, Marcus, you guys had a show about. I'm paraphrasing biggest need D lineman or corner. If I. Yeah.

[Marcus Mosher]

The general belief is that the Cowboys have a bigger need for a star on the defensive end because you can play right now as Raku and James Houston and some of your defensive tackles. You can move those guys around with corner. You need depth. I mean, your best corner, Duron Bland is coming off a major foot injury. Siobhan Revel coming off a torn acl. Caitlyn Carson was a healthy scratch. You just need healthy bodies in the secondary, whereas I think defensive end. You don't necessarily need numbers. You need an impact player. We'll see the Cowboys go out and get one this offseason.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, I like that. Good stuff. All right. Be sure and check out Marcus and Landon on the Daily Cowboys podcast. Locked on Cowboys podcast Landon will be back with us on Thursday night, a couple nights from now. One of the thing I wanted to mention that, you know, we've talked a little bit about Joe Milton and what we thought. He didn't play a lot except for that final game, but according to different reports, I mean, it sounds like they're expected to bring Milton back as the backup Are you. What do you think?

[Aisha Morrison]

That's what I thought. I mean, y' all was saying that they wasn't gonna do it, but I thought they would stretch.

[Marcus Mosher]

You want me to comment or do.

[Jeff Biggs]

You want to go?

[Aisha Morrison]

I know that you feel like you can upgrade, but.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

No, I think you gotta, I think you need to see where you're at. I mean, I, I get it. He's got a big arm, talent and all that. I just, I think you got to decide if he's a guy that can process and get the ball out quicker. You know, I, I, it's hard to say and have a firm opinion when I don't have anything other than what, a half a football to, to, to look at. It's just, it's probably not fair for me to, to, to comment one way or the other. But I do know this in every situation. And if you don't look at what's going on in Denver, if you haven't looked at what was happening in San Francisco, you better have a good two, and you better have a good two that can play multiple games for you. And if you don't and you're not looking up that position, you're probably wrong.

[Marcus Mosher]

He's going to be back because he's under contract and he's got two years left, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking elsewhere.

[Jeff Biggs]

Okay.

[Aisha Morrison]

Yeah, fair enough. You think they go. Do you think they're gonna spend a late draft pick for corporate?

[Marcus Mosher]

I kind of, I'm starting to watch some film a little bit. Kind of like. No, I just, I kind of like coach's kid from Baylor a little bit. I think he, he was a little early on, this Robertson kid. I don't think he's necessarily wrong. It would be the first time. He's right. Right.

[Aisha Morrison]

What's the name?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Be the second time, I'll tell you. Sorry to bother you tonight.

[Marcus Mosher]

Sawyer Robertson, who's going to be at the Senior Bowl.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Okay.

[Marcus Mosher]

I don't know if he's a starting quarterback in the NFL, but he's got something.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, well, we look forward to that. Are you guys actually gonna go to Alabama?

[Aisha Morrison]

I, I might be. I think, I think so.

[Marcus Mosher]

It's too hot for me, Jeff. I'm gonna stay up here in the igloo.

[Aisha Morrison]

Marcus, you can't go to the air.

[Marcus Mosher]

No, that's all right.

[Tyler Rowland]

We'll be watching.

[Marcus Mosher]

We'll be covering you here in the Lots on Cowboys podcast. Make sure you check us out every single day.

[Aisha Morrison]

Marcus, I know.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

I can see you I can see you down there in a pair of short longs galloping around way too hot.

[Marcus Mosher]

Listen, I feel like a polar bear, man.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

That's what I mean. You get the. You get them short lungs that clip you about mid calf.

[Aisha Morrison]

I can see y' all are sick. Put your legs away, Marcus.

[Marcus Mosher]

I know nobody wants to see that.

[Jeff Biggs]

All right, well, Aisha, real quick before we go, what shows do you got coming up that we can play?

[Aisha Morrison]

I will be on the stack with Crown Global Media talking draft content on Thursday. Our show airs at 3pm today. We kind of talk some matchups with cornerbacks, some of the top cornerbacks, some of the top wide receivers. That was a really dope conversation we had today. I will be on Girls Talk, Boys Talk this Thursday at 9. 00am Central on Dallas Cowboys dot com. We'll have our show on Thursday because Monday was a holiday and. Yeah. And I'm gonna be back here with y' all on Thursday. So you. Like you said, lady is busy here. Lady is busy. I'm also in scouting school, so pray my strength in the Lord.

[Jeff Biggs]

Wow.

[Aisha Morrison]

Pray my strength.

[Jeff Biggs]

I didn't know there was a scouting school.

[Marcus Mosher]

Dan Hatman, right? Yeah.

[Aisha Morrison]

There's this really dope. Yes. Dan Hatman, Lewis Riddick, they have a scouting academy that breaks down, really teaches you how to watch film, how to understand positions, like how coach was talking about earlier about technique, things like that. Y' all know that I'm still a nugget. So I decided to take this college level course just because what it is and get better for, you know, everybody, get better for the audience, get better for myself. So I'm loving it so far.

[Marcus Mosher]

So, yeah, I was part of the very first class back in like 2013. So it's. It's a really cool program.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Really?

[Marcus Mosher]

Yeah.

[Aisha Morrison]

Give me your notes.

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

Would you graduate magna cum laude?

[Marcus Mosher]

If I knew what that meant, I would say yes. But no, I didn't. I'm just joking.

[Aisha Morrison]

Give me your notes.

[Marcus Mosher]

I'm not going to cheat, but yeah, it's a good time. I highly recommend it to anybody that wants to get a deeper knowledge of the NFL.

[Jeff Biggs]

Yeah, that's right up my alley. I would love that. That would be great. I have to look into that. All right, guys. Hey, great show. Thank you for being available here on a Tuesday night. And we'll do it again on Thursday night. But Aisha Marcus will be looking for you guys. Coach, thank you. Keep up the good work on the radio and we'll talk again on Thursday as the Cowboys off season continues this has been the Cowboys squad show.

[Marcus Mosher]

Good Morning Crust. It's a great day to be a bread brother.

[Jeff Biggs]

Mornings are not my jam or jelly.

[Marcus Mosher]

Oh come on, stop loafing around.

[Jeff Biggs]

I just woke up feeling hollow and inside.

[Marcus Mosher]

Just grab one of the new morning uncrustable sandwiches like Bright eyed Berry or up an apple filled with 12 grams of protein and tons of deliciousness crust. What are you eating?

[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

It's just granola, not even yogurt.

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[Glenn 'Stretch' Smith]

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Asked for more and now you can get it with the Everydayer club. For just $5 a month, you'll get every episode ad free, plus access to our members only Discord Exclusive audio from Locked On Sports today and other perks you won't find anywhere else. If you never miss a show, this is the next step. Join the Everydayer Club [e-mail] everydayerclub or visit the link link in the show notes. That's lockedonpodcast.com everydayerclub part of the Locked On Podcast network. Your team every day.