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Locked On Cowboys - Daily Podcast On The Dallas Cowboys
DEBUNKED: Every Bad Narrative About Cowboys BIG Trade For DT Quinnen Williams!
00:27:01
Dallas Cowboys defend their blockbuster trade for defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, systematically dismantling every criticism from the national media. Is this the move that finally aligns with their 2026-2027 championship window?
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- [00:00]
Tyler Roland
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Commercial Announcer
Podcast network your team every day.
- [00:11]
Tyler Roland
I'm Tyler Roland from Locked On Titans. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a great time to apply for an Apple Card. You'll love earning up to 3% unlimited daily cash back on every purchase and no fees period through this special referral offer. When you get a new Apple Card, you can earn bonus daily cash. To qualify you must apply at Apple Co. Get daily cash Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.99% to 28.24% based on credit worthiness rates. As of October 1, 2025, offer may not be available elsewhere to terms and limitations apply.
- [00:57]
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- [01:28]
Marcus Mosher
There's a lot of bad narratives out there about the Quinn and Williams trade. Let's bust them next. You are Locked On Cowboys, your daily Dallas Cowboys podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast network. Your team every day. Welcome back to the Locked on Cowboys podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast network. Your team every day. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. Today's episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. Download the Prize Picks app today. Use promo code lot done NFL to get 50 in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup. Welcome back. I am your host Marcus Mosher. He is Landon McCool and on today's show we're going to continue to talk about the Queen, Quinn and Williams trade that the Cowboys made on Tuesday. But Lane and one of the things that I found so fascinating on Tuesday night and then all day on Wednesday was some of the narratives that came out about this trade. Now we're not I promise we're not going to come off as huge homers that are going to defend every move that Jerry Jones makes because we haven't go listen to our Michael Parsons podcast as soon as that move happened. I think before we start, you and I are both in agreement that maybe they paid 110. 115 cents on the dollar. But overall, we're very happy with the trade because Quinn and Williams is a awesome player that the Cowboys desperately needed.
- [02:58]
Landon McCool
Yeah. And I mean, honestly, I think the overpay part is debatable, but I do think that it certainly is, I would say a debatable topic. Right. On whether or not the amount that they paid was a slight overpay on track. Slight underpay. I think, you know, there's, there's a certain amount of, within that realm that I think is reasonable argument for sure.
- [03:23]
Marcus Mosher
All right, so let's take a look at some of the most common narratives and sometimes the loudest narratives that are out there right now. And let's, let's talk about it. Listen, I don't mind. I'm gonna call out some of the names because some of these guys are my friends and it's fine. Bill Barnwell from ESPN kind of was going on a, a rant about Quinn Williams in the trade, and one of his tweets that came out on Wednesday was, if anyone knows the value of draft picks, it's the Dallas Cowboys, who built their last super bowl winning team on a trade where they traded a proven thing, Herschel Walker, for a series of draft picks. He's basically making the point of, hey, the Cowboys had all these draft picks. They should have just held on to them and built their team that way. What's your counter argument to that?
- [04:09]
Landon McCool
Well, first of all, there's a, there's a whole argument about comparing to team building exercises to a team 30 years ago, which I'm sure you'll get into a little bit more. But beyond that, like, I, I think trade, you know, part of this deal was always going to be about just getting assets and creating a better defense. Right. It wasn't necessarily only about specifically taking all these draft picks and using all of them. And especially since they did use them, it's not like they didn't get any value for me. I mean, I think that's the thing that, about this is that the Cowboys have struggled at times to, to, you know, use their second round picks effectively. Right. And I think when you look at the way that they've thrown away kind of those sort of picks, you almost wish they had taken one of those second round picks and thrown it at a player that, that you had some known quantity for. Because look at, you know, you've got, you spent three second round picks on, on defensive ends and maybe you've hit on one of them right? Now let's look at the defensive tackle position, the defensive tackle position, an even more difficult position to hit on. Right? And as we've talked about, there's not even necessarily a guarantee that the type of player that you need for your defense is even available to you in the draft. Like not even, like, because you are maybe not high enough to draft that player, but there may not even be a Quinn and Williams in the draft. Certainly, certainly not every year. So I, I think that there's something to the idea of, of opportunity cost and going and getting a player that you know you can build around. You know you, you'll get into all the structures of, of, of of the deals 30 years ago. But, but the Cowboys have what's a very kind of clear and defined window here. And, and they traded for a piece that fits very nicely into that window. We could talk about what happens beyond that, but nowadays teams are building for this year, next year, and then maybe the year after that. It's, there isn't the same mindset there was 25, 30 years ago when you're building for the long run. And the long run means a decade, right? Or five years, six years. The Cowboys using these draft picks, especially with an extra one, to get a player that is a known commodity that they can build around. It makes a lot of sense. And I think this isn't just a case where you're just throwing away a second or third round pick for a guy that you're taking a shot on. You traded a first round pick to get two or three years for a known commodity that you can build around and, and then what the opportunity cost to extend him if he's still playing good football at the contract.
- [06:57]
Marcus Mosher
The other thing that we should mention is I would get the argument more if this was a team. The team that traded for Quinn Williams had a standard allotment of picks. And if you're losing a second round pick in a first round pick and then you don't have that first round pick in 2027, that is going to handicap your ability to build a team. But the Cowboys aren't a team that had a standard allotment of picks. They still, after the trade have two first round picks and an entire draft full of picks in 2027. We also haven't talked about this, but I was talking with some guys at over the Cap. The Cowboys are likely going to get a fifth round pick because Rico Dowdle is actually exceeding expectations in Carolina. It's going to cancel out a couple things. We can talk about that later, but they've got a lot of picks coming in the upcoming year. So this is just cashing in a, not a small a chunk of that allotment for a guaranteed player at least you know, right now. And you still have three first round picks over the next two years to add to this unit.
- [08:00]
Landon McCool
Yeah, and, and the other thing too is I, I think by trading the 2027 pick, I think it's, it even if you feel like, and I'm sure they felt like it was a better draft maybe to have that extra first round pick because of the types of players that, you know, you know, just if you look at the way the, the college football is, 2027 is going to be loaded at the top. Right. So you know, I, I, but I also think for the Cowboys perspective, by trading that pick, it's actually kind of closer to a second round value because it's a year out trade for a first round pick. Even with the idea that it's the higher of the two picks. To me, the Cowboys, that's the way.
- [08:38]
Marcus Mosher
It works in the draft. We should mention like, like for next year's draft, if you wanted to trade a first round pick, you know, get into the draft, it's usually the value of a second round pick. Right. And we're not even to that point of the draft. We're still, yeah, exactly six months away from that. So the value of those picks gets more expensive the closer you get. We're just a long ways away. Because if the Cowboys desperately need like let's say next season goes absolutely dreadful and they feel like they need to add more picks in 2027, you can do that, you can start selling off some pieces. It's just a long ways away to get upset about that.
- [09:12]
Landon McCool
Yeah, I think that's the thing and that's going to be the theme here for the entirety of all the, the episode is to me, I, I, I think it's, it's totally fine to be, not think the trade was good or not think the trade was, was bad. I think, you know, there's a certain stand, like I said, a standard deviation from the middle. Right. That I feel like is, is within the, the realm of argument to make this argument, which several people have made, that this is like a, you know, giving it an F or this is a terrible trade. Like I just don't understand how you could feel that negative about what the Cowboys did. They took, they took these picks and they went and got a better player. They've improved their team. Like I, I, like ultimately at the end of the day, isn't that what the point is like the, the point is to have the potential to pick a player like Quinn and Williams. And all the arguments that people used against the Cowboys as oh you could. A draft pick could be anything. It could be Micah Parsons. Suddenly they forgot all those arguments. Now that the Cowboys are trading for a known quantity and getting something in return, it's. It's kind of frustrating.
- [10:16]
Marcus Mosher
Yeah. And it's not like this trade has robbed them of all their flexibility again. They have a ton of draft capital over the next two years. And one more point I wanted to make on Bill Barnwell's before we move on. He's right that the Cowboys built a dynasty in 19 starting in 1989 with the Herschel Walker trade. But the finances and how picks in 1990, right when you drafted a player, you got them for the most time for six years. And that's not including franchise tags and all that game. But stuff came later. When you drafted a guy, you got them for six years, you draft a guy in the second round. Now you get them for four years. And a lot of times they want to get that deal. You know, after the third year, it's just much different. Right now it's. You don't get these guys on super long contracts so you need to start to try to stagger them a little bit. And the Cowboys were always going to have problems with four first round picks in two years trying to figure out the ways to structure them. And we're going to talk about windows here in a little bit, Lena. But that's just. You can't really compare the 90s to the 2026, 2027 seasons. Totally different.
- [11:22]
Landon McCool
And last thing it was pre salary cap. And the salary, the money part is the part that's not being discussed here at all. There's a 20 million dollar difference in what the Cowboys would be paying with all of this versus if it was just Micah Parsons. So that money is also going to be able to free them up to get more players too. So that's why we shouldn't necessarily lump the Micah Parsons deal into this deal.
- [11:45]
Marcus Mosher
All right, let's talk about why did the Cowboys make this move right now? Why didn't they just wait until the off season when the price would be maybe a little bit cheaper? We'll get into that next. This episode is brought to you by Mizzen in Maine. You know the saying, look good, feel good. The problem is dress clothes only. Check one of those boxes. They look sharp but they feel stiff. They're hot and they're high maintenance, but that is why there's Mizzen and Main. Mizzen and Main makes classic menswear with performance fabrics so it's effortless to look sharp and feel comfortable. They've actually invented the performance fabric dress shirt over 10 years ago and they've perfected it ever since. Their shirts are stretchy, they're moist wickening and they're wrinkle resistant. It's so comfortable. I love it when I'm on a hot day, but I need to look nice. They keep me cool all day long. It's the feel of athletic wear, but the look of professional wear. And right now Mizzen and Main is offering our listeners 20% off your first purchase@mizzenmain.com with promo code locked on NFL 20 that is Mizzen spelled M I Z Z N in Maine M A I N.com promo code locked on NFL 20 for 20% off. And if you'd rather shop in person, you can find Mizzen and Main stores in select states. This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. You and I make decisions every single day, but on Prize Picks Being right can get you paid don't miss any of the excitement this sports season. Whether you're following the NFL, the NBA, or both, there's not a better time to jump in than right now. And if you haven't tried it yet, Prize Picks is the simplest way to play. All you do is pick more or less on at least two player stats and and if you get them right, you win. It takes less than 60 seconds to make your lineup and you can play anywhere Prize Fix operates, including California, Texas and Georgia. I love that Prize Picks can give you some action on the games on Sunday afternoon when the the action's on or when NBA tip off is out. You know when you want to just jump in one of these games on a random Tuesday night. So download the Prize Picks app today. Use promo code lot NFL to get $50 off in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That is code lot NFL for $50 in lineups after you play your 1st $5 lineup. Price picks it's good to be right. We are breaking down some of the narratives surrounding the Quinn and Williams trade, and one of the ones that has been the most common Landon over the the last 24 hours or so is why make this move now? If you're the Cowboys, you're a three and five. Three five and one football team. You're not making the playoffs. Why not just hold on to those picks and wait to the off season to see what opens up.
- [14:47]
Landon McCool
I think it's important to get this guy in here now and start to kind of get a feel for how to play with these guys. Right. I, I think, you know, you don't want to just waste the season and I understand things are disappointing and the Cowboys have very low chance of getting opportunity to go to the playoffs. And, and we have said that we didn't think that necessarily that this was a, a one trade away from becoming a playoff team. Which is another thing that, that that was being accused today of, I think maybe by Barnwell of Jerry Jones, like implying that this was like a sink, that they were a single trade away from the Cowboys after saying that they weren't. I think that we're all being very clear that this is a building process, but I think part of that is getting acclimated with the player and getting as much opportunity to be with him and, and have him play in your system and kind of form the system around him so you're not needing to do that in the early part of the season in 2026.
- [15:46]
Marcus Mosher
Can we talk about that? One player away, because Jerry Jones had this quote that I saw posted all over social media and on TV today is, we're not one player away. And then everybody tears it down because you gave away a first and second round pick for one player. He, Jerry Jones is right. They are not one player away. But now they're one player closer to being a better defense. Right. And you. The only way that you're going to get to being a better defense is getting better players. And a lot of times with these draft picks, if you can get an awesome player, I'm going to use Mason Graham, who went fifth overall. Awesome, awesome prospect. It's still taking him a while to even give Cleveland, like above average per production. I think the Cowboys wanted somebody that could come in right away, help them this year, and then by 2026, get rid of some of those growing, growing pains so you can be all systems go.
- [16:36]
Landon McCool
They needed elite defensive tackle and they needed it, you know, tomorrow. And when you draft one, you certainly aren't guaranteed that guys are going to come in and perform at a high level at that position. Certainly not the way that a guy like Quinn and Williams can.
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Marcus Mosher
Well, it's especially not defensive tackle. Like, that is just historically a position.
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Landon McCool
That specifically, specifically at defensive tackle. Right. Like, it's a position that is very difficult to kind of develop. Once you develop them, they could play a long time, but. But it Takes a long time to kind of learn all the intricacies and understand, like, big boy NFL football in the middle of the, of. Of the line. That's, that's serious stuff.
- [17:13]
Marcus Mosher
So can I use an example? I remember when Carolina drafted Derek Brown. I think that was the 2020 draft, and they drafted him inside the top 10 for about three years. There. There was a question of like, okay, are they getting the value? Is he going to be a good player? And then by like year four, it clicked and now he's a dominant guy. But if you were hoping to get a dominant defensive tackle by year two even, it's just, it's way too big of an ask.
- [17:37]
Landon McCool
I'm an Albert Tiger. Let me tell you. Derek Brown dominated the sec. You know, his last year there. Still took him two or three years to kind of really get his feet underneath him. So, look, I, I think, you know, part of the issue that some of the criticism that, that the Cowboys received for this is that I don't think people are keeping in mind, like, the timeline of things and, and where the Cowboys are. They clearly have a very clear window, as we said. So this fits into that. And, and, and, and you know, it. You need to start kind of developing the chemistry with this group before you hit the ground running in 2026. So you want to start that process sooner than later and then give them the entire off season to kind of he. So he knows what he's doing, he knows how to get to the star, he knows where his parking spot is, all that stuff and all the cliche stuff. I think all that stuff is important to kind of get done ahead of that season, ahead of the offseason, so that it's old hat. And again, I think, you know, you want this piece. The Cowboys actually were trying to trade for Quinn and Williams, but before the season even started. So they know that they wanted this guy as a piece. Now that they've got him, they've got the opportunity to kind of fit the, the things they want. They're shopping around him based on the kind of looks that they're getting. Let's see what he does. Dropping him into the defense and then you make adjustments on, on how to fix the defense based on what the results are after you see how, what it's like when he's in the defense.
- [19:03]
Marcus Mosher
And real quick, I wanted to dive into this 2026, 2027 timeline because we've mentioned it and actually we've been talking about this for a couple years now. It just seems like those were kind of the target years and once they traded Micah Parsons it kind of solidified that like that's, that's their target. Right. The reason is is right now on offense you have nine of your 11 starters are signed through this I believe through the 2027 season. The only ones who aren't are Javante Williams are running back which is the easiest position to replace and then George Pickens who we all think is going to either be back on a new deal or a franchise tag. Everyone else is under contract, including some of your backup offensive linemen. We'll see what happens with Terence Steele. But your offense pretty much is set on defense there's a lot more room for improvement. But now that you have Quinn and Williams, you have Oso Digizua under contract, you have Donovan as a Rockuk, you locked up the Ron Bland overshone will be going into his final year of his contract. It just all seems like it's, it's set up with a second year head coach to really try to make a run during these last, you know, Dak Prescott I think has two or three years more left on his next deal. Basically the end of Dak Prescott's prime to really go for it.
- [20:22]
Landon McCool
You're getting your second year of continuity with this kind of young offensive line. You're getting, you know, a whole season underneath the belt with, with Schottenheimer as a play caller with these receivers. It all just like if you look at the kind of 10,000 foot view of all the different aspects of this team, it all just seems to gently flow into a 2026 target which makes a lot of sense. And all the moves since then have, have kind of, you know, subsequently pointed to that as well. So I don't want to damage that. That's what we're working towards. And I think by getting some of these assets in here quickly so that you aren't hitting 2026 with a bunch of learning curve situations that you can hopefully hit the ground running going. I think that puts you in a good situation to potentially make a long run if the talent is there.
- [21:13]
Marcus Mosher
And we should mention Quinn and Williams deal runs through the end of the 2027 season. Now there's no guaranteed money left in his deal. I got to imagine he's going to approach the Cowboys about a contract extension, but that would more probably tax some money on at the end, maybe give him a big signing bonus. But it fits into the timeline of Dak Prescott who's under contract, CD Lamb who's under contract, a young offensive line who you're not paying outside of Tyler Smith. And that's why we've been kind of eyeing this window and Quinn and Williams fits perfectly into that. And that's why you do it now versus waiting in the offseason. And maybe you don't want to wait because maybe this player doesn't become available in the off season. Maybe the jets realize, hey, we can't afford to give up this player or somebody offers more and you're not able to get it done.
- [21:59]
Landon McCool
The Jaguars were kicking it around too. They were the Cowboys and the Jaguars were competing for this. So they clearly, you know, had an opportunity to steal it right underneath your nose. And then you don't have a a lot of other options out there for, for quality like quality like truly difference making defensive tackles that you can add to your team.
- [22:18]
Marcus Mosher
All right. One of the other arguments that was out there is that the Cowboys paid more for Quinn and Williams than what the packers did for Micah Parsons. It doesn't make quite sense. We'll get to that next this episode is brought to you by Game Time. The NFL season is back and honestly, there's nothing better than being in the stadium so surrounded by fans cheering on your favorite team. But let's be honest, getting tickets at checkout can be a hassle. Between cues, login screens and prices jumping, it's all incredibly frustrating. But that's why I use Game Time, the app that gives the advantage back to the fans. Game Time is fast, easy and backed by the Game Time guarantee. You'll always get 100% authentic tickets delivered on time and at the best price. Plus all fees are included. So the price that you see is the price that you pay. The app has made it so simple. You can see your exact view from your seats in the app before you buy. Plus I love the zone deals. You can just pick the section and Game Time will pick the seats and get you the best deal. So download the gametime app, create an account and use promo code lot NFL for $20 off your first purchase terms apply again that is promo code locked on NFL for $20 off swipe tap ticket Go download Game Time today Tis.
- [23:45]
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- [24:17]
Marcus Mosher
Welcome back to the Locked on Cowboys podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. For your second listen, check out the Locked on NFL podcast. Two shows every single day, or One in the Morning with Tyler Roland, One in the Afternoon with Tony Wiggins. Available wherever you get your podcasts. All right, one more argument. This comes from Ben Solak Fred of the network who used to be here. Ben made the argument that it's possible that the Cowboys gave up more for Quinn and Williams than what they got back in the Micah Parsons trade. While he's not technically wrong that it could play out that way, the odds of that happening are pretty slim.
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Landon McCool
First of all, gotta love the Ben. So, like, is on espn. It's just every time I see him, it's crazy. But let's, let's not forget he's a Birds fan.
- [25:08]
Marcus Mosher
So. Yeah.
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Landon McCool
So, like, let's, let's keep, let's, let's keep it in mind. Like, let's temper our expectations. Yeah, I mean, I, I think again, to me it felt like there was a mandate at ESPN to like, hyperbolize this trade as much as possible, no matter which direction you went. Because now, because you had Booger McFarland, I think saying that, that the Cowboys now have the, the best defensive line in football, if I'm not mistaken, which is, you know, going too far. The other one.
- [25:35]
Marcus Mosher
Yes, that's.
- [25:37]
Landon McCool
Yeah. Way, way, way. So, yeah, I mean, again, like, I, I think if, if you, you know, want to present a hypotheticals, if you want to create like a. I mean, I don't want to call his argument a straw man argument because there is obviously chances here. But if you want to create a scenario to be upset about this trade. Yeah. I mean, if, if ultimately one of those picks ends up being a top 10 pick, there's something to that idea. I also think that if that 2027 pick ends up being a top 10 pick, the Cowboys have much bigger problems than the fact that it probably means.
- [26:14]
Marcus Mosher
That that window has officially shut. And now in 2028 and beyond, you're sorry, like starting in the 2027 season, you're probably looking for a new head coach slash, new quarterback.
- [26:26]
Landon McCool
Yeah. So, I mean, again, I think at that point you're talking about a full rebuild anyways. And, and, and would the pick be helpful? Yeah. But I also don't think that it would have been. I'm willing to risk that pick to optimize the window that you've got. Because ultimately what, what have we been talking about for years is that we've been talking about how the Cowboys haven't been going all in. They haven't been optimizing the windows of Dax opportunity. They didn't optimize the window of Romo's opportunity. To me, this is them seeing where their window is, doing what they need to to get the pieces aligned up to make a run. And if it doesn't work, I, I'll. I'll bite the bullet on that. I think that's the, that's. If anything, this team has not taken enough of these kind of risks to optimize the situation as opposed to just being too scared. Because what happens about the future, the future is now you have a 32 year old quarterback who's on a limited contract, he's playing great football. When you give him the opportunity to optimize this window and then if it doesn't work, we're blowing this whole thing up anyways. It's not like you lost all your 20, 27 first round picks. You only lost one of them. So I just go for it.
- [27:41]
Marcus Mosher
And that's the thing we've complained about the most, is that the timelines haven't matched up. And when they traded Michael Parsons, that was one of our biggest complaints. And now at least I don't want to say that you fixed it. You've at least chosen a.
- [27:53]
Landon McCool
You made it make sense a little bit, right? Like, I mean, I mean whether, whether it's all in reaction to Parsons, like the backlash to Parsons or whatever, like at least you are using it to supply that same timeline as opposed to trying to reset the timeline outside of Dax contract window.
- [28:10]
Marcus Mosher
And the other reason why this makes so much sense to me, and I want to make sure that I'm hammering this point home, is that Quinn Williams is a really good player. If this was somebody else, maybe at a different position, like if this is a corner that they traded for or an offensive tackle or whatever, it's different. You are getting a position that takes a long time to develop. A player that can not only stop the run, but can also give you pressure. He's an awesome player. He's been what they've been missing for the last three decades. And I'm really excited that he's in Dallas. So there's a couple narratives that we busted. Hopefully you guys enjoyed it. We will be back on Friday to continue to talk more about this Cowboys defense, so tune in for that. Follow Landon on Twitter @McCool BCB. I'm @Marcus Moer. We'll see you right back here tomorrow.
- [28:59]
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- [29:30]
Marcus Mosher
Hey, welcome into Walgreens. Hi there. Hey. All right, hon, I'll grab the gift wrap cards and oh, those stuffed animals the girls want. Great.
- [29:40]
Landon McCool
And I'll grab the string lights and some. How about I grab some cough drops?
- [29:46]
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- [29:49]
Marcus Mosher
I'm fine, honey.
- [29:50]
Landon McCool
Well, just in case. You know what they say, tis the season.
- [29:54]
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- [29:58]
Glenn Smith
It's Glenn Smith, former Cowboys assistant coach and now analyst on the Cowboys squad show. Expand your daily Cowboys obsession with an hour long deep dive as I team up with the best voices covering your favorite team after every game and every Thursday on Locked On Cowboys Squad up wherever you get your podcast live and on YouTube, part of the Locked On Podcast network. Your team every day.