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Locked On Cowboys - Daily Podcast On The Dallas Cowboys
Jerry Jones PROMISES Help for Cowboys Defense | Will They Make a DESPERATE Trade?
00:27:00
Marcus Mosher and Landon McCool dissect the Cowboys' defensive outlook, analyzing potential improvements and playoff chances. The duo explores offensive line shake-ups, debating Nate Thomas' role and the impact on Tyler Guyton's development.
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- [00:00]
Marcus Moser
Foreign.
- [00:04]
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- [00:10]
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- [01:26]
Marcus Moser
Jerry Jones says help is on the way for the Cowboys defense. Kind of don't believe them. We'll tell you why next. You are Locked On Cowboys, your daily Dallas Cowboys podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast network your team every day. Welcome back to the Locked On Cowboys podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast network your team every day. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. Today's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can bet just $5 and if your bet wins, you'll get 300 in bonus bets to use across the app. Welcome back. I am your host Marcus Moser. You can follow me on Twitter at Marcus Underscore Moser. Joining me today, as always, is Landon McCool. Check him out on Twitter @mccoolbcb. On today's show, we are answering your mailbag questions, including what can the Cowboys do to fix their linebacker situation? Should Nathan Thomas be one of their starting tackles? But let's get to this question. We got it from about five different people and wanted to know is there actually, actually going to be help on the way for the Cowboys defense? Jerry Jones mentioned it on the radio during a Tuesday Tuesday interview. What are your thoughts?
- [02:50]
Landon McCool
Well, my thoughts are just about the same as every Jerry Jones comment. It depends on what you mean, right? Like because yeah, I do think in Jerry's mind and in the the salesman's mind help is on the way because you, you got a couple guys, you gotta, to be fair, you got a bunch of guys who are coming off of injury lists, right? They're coming off of. Of pup, I guess, specifically ir, right. And are eligible to come back into practice who are getting their practice windows opened up. So in that sense, yes, you do have some help on the way. I think Cowboys fans were looking for more of a, you know, outside help on the way. A trade situation, a signing, though. I, I think signings, you know, who, whoever's available on the street right now. No one's really moving the needle too much. So I, I think most folks were kind of think, hearing this and thinking trade and that may be coming. That may be something that, that is in the cards at some point. But I don't think that that's necessarily what Jerry was referring to when he made these comments. I think Jerry was referring to Ravel and, and Overshone and, and, you know, Butler and all the, and Carson and all the guys that are coming off of these lists that are starting to get healthy again.
- [04:03]
Marcus Moser
So I have a tweet that I sent out like five years ago between you and I talking where it said I cannot wait for week five when Jerry Jones says reinforcements are on the way because this is what he does every year, like after the first four games of the season, there's always a player or two that's hurt, that's expected to come back in and solve all their problems, whether that's on offense or defense. And this, it happened a little bit later this year. This is about the latest it's happened, so I'm not surprised. Do I think they're going to go out and make a big trade? I. No, I, I won't be shocked, but I don't think that's going to happen. But I won't be surprised if they use some decent pick, like a future third or something to go out and get some help. But I don't think it's going to be like, hey, we're trading for Trey Hendrickson or Max Crosby or anything like that.
- [04:52]
Landon McCool
Well, let's, I mean, first of all, let's talk about where we, where we need to get to.
- [04:57]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right. Right now.
- [04:57]
Landon McCool
We need, we're at the bottom of the NFL on defense.
- [05:01]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [05:01]
Landon McCool
And, and as you and I have discussed pretty regularly, you just need to get to like, 17, 18, 17, 18.
- [05:11]
Marcus Moser
They might be the one seed if they're that, that good.
- [05:13]
Landon McCool
Yeah, well, I mean, look, that we're trying to Win the Super bowl here, buddy. So, yeah, like.
- [05:17]
Marcus Moser
Well, let me ask you this. I'm not joking.
- [05:19]
Landon McCool
No.
- [05:20]
Marcus Moser
If I told you right now that the Cowboys finished at X spot on defense, where would that need to be for you to say, hey, this is absolutely a playoff team.
- [05:28]
Landon McCool
To be a playoff team.
- [05:29]
Marcus Moser
To be a playoff team.
- [05:31]
Landon McCool
I'd say like 20, 20, 20.
- [05:35]
Marcus Moser
That's, that's my numbers 20 if you 24 somewhere. Because I think the Cowboys are going to finish inside the top three on offense. I think they're going to be inside the top three on special teams. If they're 20th on defense, that's probably good enough to get you to. Gosh, now I got to think about it, 10, six in one, right? And that probably gets you in.
- [05:54]
Landon McCool
Yeah, I mean, listen, that's, that's what I'm trying to say is like, you know, it seems like a heavy climb, but first of all, it's easy to move through those bot a lot easier to move through those bottom ranks than it is to. Once you start to get to like 15 and try to move into the top 10 like it's you, you know, one or two ads, quality ads, could, could get easily get you halfway there. And I think that that's kind of what the Cowboys are banking on, right? Is that out of these collection of guys that are coming off of the list, right, you're gonna get at least one starter, right? I mean over shown if he's coming back with the state of the linebacker. We'll talk about that a little bit later, but I think that that's at least one. And then these other guys, if you can get just one or two quality players out of that, that's gonna raise the floor a little bit. And specifically because you're talking about coverage players, I mean maybe they're worse, but there's a chance that you, you've got some guys that out there that can at least help raise the floor. And then if you could go out and, and it doesn't need to be, you know, a second round pick for, for, for Hendrickson or something like that, like if you could just go out and add another quality player, it doesn't have to be a starter but like a rotational pass rusher, another, a quarterback three that you feel more comfortable than these other guys that you got back, I, I think that you can get yourself to where you need to be and then hope that the growth in the youth of this team will get you the rest of the way of where you need to be. So I, I, I I think if we're looking for a silver bullet that we're going to trade one of these first round picks for for that's going to get us in the top half of the, of the league and defense, that's just not happening.
- [07:29]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [07:30]
Landon McCool
But there's enough like small moves that you can cobble together and it's, it's the Moneyball thing.
- [07:36]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [07:36]
Landon McCool
Where in the aggregate you can improve the, the, the floor of your defense to the point where you're at least respectable and it's helping you win ball games.
- [07:44]
Marcus Moser
There is another player that we didn't mention who is eligible to come back at. Maybe not this week, it might be next week. And that's Perry on Winfrey who we actually saw on the, the sides of the sound. The sounds of the sideline. Yeah, from Dallas Cowboys, who was, he was all fired up. He's actually a guy now that you have Kenny Clark, you have Oso Dezua, Solomon Thomas is playing well as that rotational guy. Maybe you don't need Mozzy Smith or J. Toya if you have Perry on Winfrey and that's how you just add a little bit more juice to your pass rush. Is Perry on Winfrey going to make the difference in you being the 32nd ranked defense and the 20th ranked defense? No, but I think he's just another body that they can play inside. That makes me feel better about what they can maybe do, especially against the run.
- [08:28]
Landon McCool
Yeah, I mean, look, it gives you more options like if you wanted to play a three defensive tackle line and then maybe do some interesting blitz stuff, you know, some mint stuff, fronts or.
- [08:40]
Marcus Moser
You know, make sure that Kenny Clark's not killing himself in the first two weeks of the season with snapshots. You don't want these guys to be worn down with how many games they have coming up in November and December.
- [08:50]
Landon McCool
Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, maybe you just rely on your third tackle, defensive tackle a little bit more than you would or fourth defensive tackle, however you want to, you know, power rank that more than you would if it's, if it was Mozzie Smith. You feel better when it's Perry on Winfrey. And that adds. Yeah, and that's the thing. It's gonna be like adding, you know, improvements here and there all around the. To try to raise the overall floor and then maybe one or two bigger ads like, like I said, an overshown coming off of an injury list. Maybe Josh Butler helps raise the floor on in the corner situation.
- [09:24]
Marcus Moser
And honestly for me, I think the biggest Improvements they could make are just like redistributing some of the snaps. Like I was looking at Sam Williams stuff today over the last three games. Sam Williams, I think is second. He's the, he's got the second worst pass rush win rate in the NFL and he's PFF's worst graded run defender. If you're taking his 30 snaps a game and giving them to Davion Clowney again, that's not going to make a huge difference, but it might make a big enough difference where you get one more additional stop a game and that's all you need to win some of these.
- [09:56]
Landon McCool
Yeah. And, and let's also keep in mind that all of this is underneath the umbrella as well of this. All these guys learning a new defense.
- [10:06]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [10:06]
Landon McCool
Like, that's the other part about this, is that this, this is a brand new defense that they're all kind of still, you know, congealing to. So that sometimes that can take, you know, a half a season, you know, to kind of fully understand a defense, even a simplified one like this one, all the way. So I think there are a whole bunch of smaller areas where they can make tweaks and make small improvements that could accumulate into hopefully a raising of the floor. But I think that, you know, if you're looking for, you know, one big swing, a reverse Micah Parsons, if you will, I just don't think that that's happening now.
- [10:42]
Marcus Moser
Maybe there is a name that becomes available as we get a little further on in the season and maybe it's like somebody from the jets like I've been looking at, like Will McDonald who's seeing his snap counts go down. Like, I think that's somebody who could be interesting. But I would say as of right now, I don't anticipate a big, big move happening. But who knows? Jerry Jones is the gambler. At least that's what he likes to call himself. Let's talk. Yeah, he tells us all the time. Let's talk about the Cowboys offensive line because we could have yet another lineup change here in week five. We will get to that next. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Mazda crafts cars for those who do more than simply move. Mazda delivers confidence with every ride, with more IIHS top safety pick awards than anyone else. From football, from footwork to breath work, athletes sweat all the details.
- [11:36]
Landon McCool
And.
- [11:36]
Marcus Moser
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- [12:24]
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- [12:37]
Marcus Moser
Prices and participation may vary. Welcome back to the Lock on Cowboys podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. Landon, let's get to another question, this one from Goran. He wants to know, should the Cowboys consider making Nate Thomas one of their starting tackles? He didn't say what tackle spot, but should he be one of their starters going forward?
- [13:00]
Landon McCool
Well, he, he did that on purpose because Goran's one of our smarter listeners and he wanted to leave it open ended because I think it is a question.
- [13:06]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [13:07]
Landon McCool
And, and I do think that Nate Thomas has shown us enough through the training camp process, through the preseason, now into the regular season that he deserves an opportunity to continue to keep playing.
- [13:21]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [13:21]
Landon McCool
Like I, I think that, you know, I tweeted it out that there's a good chance that, that, that he could be one of your top two offensive tackles. And I, you know, intentionally kind of left that blank a little bit because I do think that Guyton has been very up and down, but I do think he's also improving. And I think as he's getting healthier, he's battling a lot. It hasn't always been pretty, and I don't think that his highs have been as high as Terrance Steele's highs have been in, especially specifically the run game. I think Terrence Steele has really continued to struggle as a, as a pass protector at times. And I think that, you know, if, if you're looking to make improvements at the right tackle, that is specifically the area that I think you're looking for, for Nate Thomas to be better at. But I, I think you, and I think on top of that, you just, you need to have guidance, continue to take these steps. Snaps. He missed all of training camp with the injury. Not all of it, but, but in the back half of training camp with Injury. He needs these snaps to improve. And I also think that it's, it's kind of a situation where Steel and Guyton to me are playing kind of at similar levels. Maybe Steel's slightly better in the run game, but I, I, I, I think you have to go with the young, the youth in this situation. Get a starting five that you could potentially work into the future with. See what you've got in this guy. Because I mean there's, I think all of us kind of has had him penciled in as the potential starter at right tackle next year. Maybe, maybe the future is now with Nate Thomas.
- [14:55]
Marcus Moser
I have very mixed feelings on this because I don't think long term he's going to take the left tackle job from Tyler Guyton, and I don't think they really want him to. Like, I think Guyton has shown some improvements. I know if you look at the PFF grades, they've been up and down, but where you've really seen it is in the run game. And I think that's what makes me feel really excited about Guyton long term is when the Cowboys drafted him, they drafted him as like this athletic guy that can move and you're hoping he can just lose slowly at left tackle. But I actually think he's been like a plus blocker in the run game and I think you want to continue to develop that. Now. Guyton could miss this week with a concussion. He's optimistic that he can play. Brian Schottenheimer even said that they feel like there's a good chance he might be able to make it through the protocol. We'll see. I actually hope that they give him enough time. They don't rush this. There's no sense. Right. But with Terence Steel, the, the only thing that makes me nervous here, Landon, is if you take Terence Steele out of the lineup, I do think you're losing your, one of your best run blockers. And who's the veteran on the offensive line? With so many injuries right now to Cooper Bibi and Tyler Booker, you've got Tyler Smith, who I think is 24 years old. You've got Tyler Guyton, who's 23. It is nice to have one guy on the offensive line who's been through some of these big games. That would be my concern.
- [16:17]
Landon McCool
I, I, it's Tyler Smith. Like the, the future is now with this group. I think it's time to think about going young. And I understand what you're saying. You know that the, the veteran presence is important, but Tyler Smith is, I mean, he's an all Pro, you know, like he's, he's one of the best, if not the best guard in football. And I, and I think that he's seen enough at this point through, you know, three seasons, two, two and a half seasons. I've lost track now at this point.
- [16:43]
Marcus Moser
We're in year four now.
- [16:45]
Landon McCool
Yeah, so, so three and a half seasons. So I think, you know, to the point where it's, it's a short career for these guys and three seasons is, can, can be, make you into a veteran for sure. To me, I think that having that veteran presence is important, but it's not like Terence Steele is, is like necessarily some wily vet. You know, I, I, and he won't, it's not like he won't be around. And I also think that you, I am, I, a lot of people disagree with this, but I am not someone who is opposed to rotating series of offense with offensive tackles. I, I actually, I've really come around on this because I, I think that Mike McCarthy, if anything, the one positive thing that we've seen from Mike McCarthy is getting opportunities for some of these guys. And, and even if it's limited opportunity, if it's the right opportunity is important because all these guys are going to play. So, so you know, if you have to rotate these guys, if anything, it's, it's good practice for that guard to get ready for if an injury happens and you have to play next to another guy. So I'm, I'm not opposed to not, maybe not full time. I'm certainly not that. But if we wanted to kind of dip a toe into this experiment as opposed to fully throwing Nate Thomas out there as the starter next week, I, I, I'm okay with that as well.
- [18:07]
Marcus Moser
I, I'm okay with that as well. I do agree Mike McCarthy did a good job of getting these guys ready and it's why guys like Brock Hoffman and TJ Bass, who, you know, guys aren't penciled in as, you know, week one starters, they can come in these games and not get you embarrassed. And actually both those guys can provide value in run games because, I mean, we saw like Brock Hoffman was getting rotated in, was it two years ago in certain situations when maybe we thought there were better players that should have been getting his snaps. But it's what McCarthy does. One, one thing on Thomas that makes this tough is you kind of want him to pick a spot like so he can work on his footwork and his hand technique. And the issue is like this week he Might be playing left tackle because of a Guyton injury, but you really want him to be taking right tackle snaps because that's the future of where he's going to be lining up. It makes us also challenging.
- [18:58]
Landon McCool
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's not ideal necessarily, but it's also not going to kill him. I mean, obviously he had no problem coming in and, and, and after preparing to right tackle all week, going in and playing left tackle and, and left, you know, mugging up Michael Parsons on at least a couple snaps. So, yeah, I, I do think that, I do think it, it is not necessarily ideal, but at the same time, he certainly didn't seem to have any problem with it. And, and frankly, you know, he spent all the training camp working at left tackle. So, yeah, I mean, I, I think for him at this point it's probably old hat going back and forth.
- [19:33]
Marcus Moser
It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. I, I, I don't know if there's going to be a huge drop off between Tyler Guyton and Nathan Thomas now, again, if he's got to start a game, you know, I think you're always worried about the conditioning because he hasn't played a full game. That's the thing I worry about.
- [19:47]
Landon McCool
Yeah. And the one thing I will say too is, and I've harp on this a lot is offensive line play is not, you know, six, is six snaps. It's 70 snaps or whatever. It's, and you, and you examine it over the entire course of the game and I think that that's what we've seen of Nathan Thomas's short spurts. How does he handle playing 70 consecutive games? Does he play strong into the fourth quarter? These are all things that we would have to see.
- [20:12]
Marcus Moser
And it tests your mental toughness as well, because when you're on snap 60, are you really plugged into the snap count? Are you gonna jump? Are you? I mean, there's just a lot of things that young offensive linemen who haven't played that many snaps in a row have to figure out.
- [20:27]
Landon McCool
They got more tape on you too. As well.
- [20:29]
Marcus Moser
Exactly.
- [20:30]
Landon McCool
Yeah.
- [20:30]
Marcus Moser
All right, let's talk about the Cowboys linebackers, because that's probably the, not probably. I think it's the worst position on the Cowboys right now. Are there any potential solutions out there? We will get to that next. This episode is brought to you by FanDuel. The NFL season is here, and FanDuel has an offer that you don't want to miss right now. New customers can bet just $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. That's right. All you have to do is pick a bet, put five bucks down, and if it hits, you'll get $300 in bonus bets to use across the app. I love FanDuel because it allows me to bet however I want to bet. Like I love Partlight. So Sunday morning, put a couple teams in a Moneyline parlay that you think are going to win. It's the easiest way to bet. Or if you like futures, bet like today. I've been monitoring all of the division odds. Like I've been checking in on that AFC north because I I think Baltimore is way overvalued right now. I think Pittsburgh is going to win that division going away. So many different fun ways. It makes watching football on Sundays way more enjoyable, especially when you have a little action on the side. So what are you waiting for? Visit FanDuel.com to download the FanDuel app today and get started. This episode is brought to you by Monarch Money. Most people can't name all of their financial accounts or even what they're worth, whether it's 401ks properties or investments. And when you don't have the full picture, you can end up leaving money on the table. That is why there is Monarch Money. It's an all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean, easy to use interface on your laptop or on your phone. Monarch does the heavy lifting for you. You can link all of your accounts in minutes, see clear visuals, get smart categorization of your spending, and finally feel in control of your money without ever needing to touch a spreadsheet. I've linked all of my accounts to Monarch and immediately found a few subscriptions that I didn't even know that I had. I was just throwing money out the window. It saved me like 70$80 a month on subscriptions that I wasn't currently using. So don't let this financial opportunity slip through the cracks. You use Code Locked on NFL@monarchmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That is 50 off your first year@monarchmoney.com code locked on NFL welcome back to the Locked on Cowboys podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. For your second listen, get a double dose of the lockdown NFL Podcast Tyler the Madman Roland gives you a shot of espresso to start your football day with, while Tony Wiggins takes you to the barber shop for the smoothest breakdowns, find Locked on NFL on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. All right, Landon, last question here. It's about the linebackers. A lot of different suggestions about how to fix this problem, but this one comes from Jake. Could the Cowboys potentially use someone like Marquis Bell to figure out their linebacker situation? And then another one from Evan. We're combining this in here as well. What should we expect from demarvi and Overshone once he's cleared to play?
- [23:47]
Landon McCool
All right, let's go with the first one first.
- [23:49]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [23:50]
Landon McCool
And because I think, I think these kind of all sort of tie into each other as well. I think we have to realize there's a reason that Jack Sanborn is on this team. And, and, and that's because the defensive coordinator trusts Jack Sanborn.
- [24:04]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [24:04]
Landon McCool
So. And I'm not suggesting that Dexan should be the one playing, but what I'm saying is that I think that there's going to be very limited opportunities for a outside candidate, like, let's say, you know, a free agent linebacker or.
- [24:19]
Marcus Moser
Well, like I saw Eric Kendricks worked out for the Ravens on Tuesday.
- [24:22]
Landon McCool
Yeah. I think that they've made their selection and veteran linebacker. Right. And who they want, who they trust. Now, we could talk about someone like Marquis Bell, right. Who obviously played linebacker previous for us. It's obviously a safety, had a big play on, on in this last Sunday. Very big play. I, I, to me, I think it would make some sense to do some stuff with Marquis Bell, but I, I think if you're, if you're, if you're trying to be realistic, I think it's probably mostly in a nickel situation.
- [24:53]
Unidentified Analyst 1
Right.
- [24:54]
Landon McCool
Like where you feel comfortable with him operating in the defense just because he, ha. Like, that's an area where he's had a lot of experience and those defenses are very similar. I, I think if you're, if you're thinking about putting him on as your will linebacker on first and second down, I, I think he could do it for sure if he's proven that he can do it, and this may even be a better situation for him to be doing it than it was previously. But I, I think you're the, the hurdle you're going to need to get over is kind of finding a way to get this defensive coordinator, this defensive brain trust, to trust him enough to do such things.
- [25:30]
Marcus Moser
I would love to see it because I thought Marquis Bell was one of the best coverage linebackers we saw in 2023. I just don't think they view him that way at all he's got two defensive snaps on the year. Like he's just, he, they obviously don't trust him. I think of the names that are available, the one guy that I could see Eber Floose going to is Shemar James, who we got. You saw it play a little bit last week. Just because he is the athlete, he's the guy that could fly around. I just don't think it's going to be Bell, unfortunately.
- [25:58]
Landon McCool
Yeah. And honestly, I think, you know, with where James is right now, I think it's gonna look a lot like what you see with Damone Clark, right? Where it's all athleticism, all speed, but maybe overrunning plays or being confused by misdirection or not knowing what he's saying and then athleticism being neutralized by a slow processor.
- [26:17]
Marcus Moser
What about leaf out?
- [26:19]
Landon McCool
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think you have, I mean, I, I, I think that you have to continue to give Leo foul opportunity opportunities. He's just shown you that he is a good player before he made some bad mistakes. And I think that, that it's unfortunate for those of us that want him to continue to get stabs because we think he's your best bet. But I think that, you know, you just cut, you've been hard headed about Sam Williams. Why not be hard headed about Maris? Leopale here, I think, I think you have a better chance at this point that Leopal will even out and, and be a starter level linebacker than you, you, you've gotten from Sam Williams so far.
- [26:56]
Marcus Moser
All right, so what about Overshone? Overshone keeps kind of creeping out this timeline of when he can get on the field and I wonder if it's because the linebackers are that bad. He feels like he needs to get out there. But when Overshone is cleared, what can we expect?
- [27:12]
Landon McCool
Yeah, I mean, I, I think that they'll have to be kind of gentle with him a little bit and you know, rotate him in and I think it's going to start out, you know, with him probably playing some like, like we talked about with Bell, some nickel situations. And then, you know, as the, the, the snaps kind of increase, you'll see more and more of him being rounded and, and playing kind of all downs. I, I would say that very quickly they'll try to move to a situation where he's the, the number one snap getter as linebacker because he's a talented player. But I do think that, you know, they're gonna have to like ease him into this situation just because, I mean, you know, his his recovery curve is so severe.
- [27:53]
Marcus Moser
I'm worried about him.
- [27:53]
Landon McCool
I, I'm worried.
- [27:55]
Marcus Moser
I'm not worried about him in the sense of like, he's going to be ready to go. I'm worried that the Cowboys are going to overwork him and it's just, it's not fair to him, like, because they need him like they desperately need over shown. I just don't want him to be exhausted and pushing too hard to get back on the field. But we'll see. All right, that is it for today's show. We'd like to thank you for making Lockdown Cowboys your first listen every single day. Check out the channel on YouTube, download the podcast wherever you get your podcast. We are free and available on all platforms. Follow Landon on Twitter acoolbcb. I'm arcusmosier and we will see you right back here tomorrow.
- [28:38]
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