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Locked On Cowboys - Daily Podcast On The Dallas Cowboys
SNUB: Dallas Cowboys Legends Darren Woodson and Jason Witten IGNORED by NFL Hall of Fame!
00:27:38
Dallas Cowboys legends snubbed at NFL Honors—has Hall of Fame voting lost its way? Marcus Mosher and Landon McCool react to Darren Woodson once again missing enshrinement, questioning the Hall of Fame’s outdated process, anti-Cowboys bias, and how the lack of in-depth football expertise among voters hurts deserving candidates.
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- [02:35]
C
Well, first of all, I mean, let's, let's go to the source of the problem. The problem is this terrible process. I mean, the hall of Fame process is. Is awful. You and I have Talked about it before, you know, and I think that. I think just the best example may not even be Woody. The best example is Roger Craig making it in over Bill Belichick. Right. We've talked about the whole Belichick thing, but, you know, I think that it's, it's a, it's a flawed process that, you know, doesn't give the opportunities that it does that to this level of player specifically, it feels like, to kind of get their chance to go in. And I think Darren Woodson is a player that, you know, he's, I think he's the only member of the all 2000s team that, that isn't in the hall of Fame, if I'm not mistaken.
- [03:22]
A
The old 90s team.
- [03:23]
C
I believe it's the old 90s team. Yeah. So, yeah, I just, it's, it's frustrating to kind of see a lot of the kind of inconsistencies that we've seen over the years, and then once you don't make it, like, your first two initial times, it becomes difficult because you just kind of fall into this backlog of players that a lot of different people are kind of competing for while still also fighting each new class of. You know, it's like, how do you. Drew Brees deserves to be in the hall of Fame. Larry Fitzgerald deserves. I mean, I'm not arguing who made it in, like, maybe the kicker, but I, I, I, I think that that, like, the point being is that the situation, the, the, the way that they've done this and the way they changed the format, honestly, to. It hasn't helped the situation. They, they need to kind of tear the whole process up from the floorboards and start, and start. Not start over, but, but, you know, kind of come up with a new way of doing well, start over the process of getting guys in. I didn't mean, like, starting over the whole hall of Fame.
- [04:26]
A
I'd be okay with that.
- [04:28]
C
Yeah, I was just. It's just frustrating right now. You know, he's my favorite player of the Cowboy of all time. Like, I think people know that, so this is especially just terrible.
- [04:37]
A
So before I go off on the hall of Fame, you tell me why you think he should be in the hall of Fame. Because, I mean, I'm in total agreement with you. But if you had to make the case to the voters, how would you do it?
- [04:47]
C
I mean, he changed the game, like, and I think he changed the way that you play with safeties and what you're looking for in a safety. You know, he, I mean, all these Other guys who came in after him are of a specific type. None of them, you know, John lynch, that's in the hall of Fame, none of them are as versatile as Woody. Woody was a total freak of nature. He played on multiple super bowl teams. He's the all time leading tackler of one of the most storied franchise in the NFL. You know, I, I think the, the bar that has been set for hall of Fame safeties, he's cleared like there's been at least two or three of that same era safety that has been in that he's way better than so.
- [05:30]
A
And you already mentioned one of them.
- [05:31]
C
Yes, yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, look, you, you did before him, you didn't have too many safeties who could play in the slot, who could, you know, come in down and play man coverage, who also could play at like a linebacker level. I mean his level of versatility was rare. And he again, he changed what you were looking for in the safety and again was incredibly impactful to multiple eras of the Dallas Cowboys.
- [05:56]
A
All right, so totally agree with you. By the way, a little peek behind the curtain as to how this hall of Fame process works. So there's 50 voters, 32 from each market. Right. And then you have 18, they call them at large voters. And I wish I'm going to try to be as nice as possible. I wish there were more football people that actually like studied this and like watched it on a day to day basis and not people that played 40 or 50 years ago that clearly aren't invested. And a lot of what happens is they go based purely on stats. Well, you know, for a safety, if you get a lot of turnovers, that doesn't necessarily make you the best safety. Sometimes you lock into them. Darren Woodson has really good tackle numbers, but there's not a lot of interceptions and sack numbers because they didn't, Cowboys didn't use him that way. He wasn't a, a free safety. They got a bunch of overthrown balls to tip passes. He was used as a slot corner. He was using a nickel linebacker. He was used all over. He played on special teams. When you get a beat reporter from Indianapolis that goes to Pro Football Reference and looks at his stat page, they're not blown away. It's because they didn't actually watch or they don't remember how good of a player he actually was.
- [07:14]
C
Yeah, and Deion Sanders wasn't tipping the ball, he was intercepting the ball when he played for the Cowboys. So. Yeah, no, I mean agree like I think it's, this is not, this is a familiar refrain. You know, it feels like there's been. Oh, there's a lot of kind of politics. Politics. Politicization of the, of the whole process.
- [07:30]
A
Yes.
- [07:31]
C
I mean, to say the least, I think you've been kind of a leader on that obviously in social media of kind of pointing that out with the whole Belichicks thing.
- [07:39]
A
Well, I asked, I asked the Colts beat reporter, I said, you know who the Cowboys all time tackler was? And they said no. Do you know who the Cowboys slot corner was for Most of the 90s? They had no idea. And if you, if this is somebody that's voting on this, if you have no idea who that is and who what the role that Darren Woodson played, you're probably not going to vote for him. Instead you're going to vote for a kicker instead.
- [08:01]
C
Yeah, which is, yeah, a kicker. You know, he's the other guys. He's a very good kicker. Very. He's, he's in the hall of Fame now. So. Yeah, I mean I, I just think, you know, it's, it's, it's a flawed process that needs to be kind of redone. There needs to be, you know, more voices and more accountability and I think voices that maybe have a more well formed opinion. Look, it's not any different than the Oscars. It's, you know, it's just not like. And that's not a great comparison to be compared to. So especially since, you know, there's, there's a lot more money on the line, I feel like, for, for the individual players. So, yeah, I, I think it's, it's rough. So I, I hope that they kind of do something about it.
- [08:45]
A
There's also a little bit of a cowboy bias. An anti cowboy bias.
- [08:49]
C
Well, that's what I was going to say too, right. Is that if they, you know, since he, since you don't know the role that he, like I'm saying the example that you gave, right, like if you don't know the, the role he played on those Cowboys teams, then it probably is really easy as a Hall of Fame voter who's been there for a while to say we've got enough of Those guys, those 90s cowboys, was this guy just like the safety. No, we're not letting him in. You know, like I, you know, it's, it probably really easy to be dismissive if you don't have a, you know, kind of deeper knowledge of this stuff. And I think that that's why, you know, there needs to be more. I mean, I'm going to say expertise. These folks that are, that are deciding.
- [09:34]
A
This stuff, it's also a really old group of voters. Like I listen, I've got no problem saying this. Calvin Watkins is one of the newest and youngest members voting in the hall of Fame. Which, yeah, we love Calvin.
- [09:46]
C
But we love Calvin.
- [09:47]
A
He's not necessarily a spring chicken either, right?
- [09:49]
C
Yeah.
- [09:50]
A
So it's, it's a process that's very flawed with a lot of people in there that I don't think maybe take it as seriously as they should. And that's how guys like Darren Woodson, who was one of the best defenders of the 90s and early parts of the 2000s, gets lost in the shuffle for a kicker. Let's talk about another player that did not make the hall of Fame this year and that is Jason Whitten. I think a lot of people thought he was a shoo in to be a first ballot hall of Famer. Not the case. We'll get to that next. This episode is brought to you by zocdoc. Finding a doctor that you actually like can feel like discovering a diamond in the rough. Sure, you want someone who's in network nearby and has availability, but you also want a doctor who listens to and makes you feel comfortable and explains things clearly. That kind of doctor exists and finding them is easy with ZocDoc. ZocDoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love without all the hassle. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states covering over 200 specialties from from primary care in dentistry to dermatology and eye care. So stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com lot NFL to find it instantly book a doctor that you love today. That's Z O C D O C.com lot NFL Zocdoc.com lot NFL and thanks to Zocdoc for approving this message. This episode is brought to you by. Indeed. If you've ever hired someone who looked good on paper but wasn't the right fit, you know how important that is when you want candidates who truly match what you're looking for. Trust indeed. Sponsored Jobs Hiring indeed is all you need. So stop struggling to get your job post seen on other sites. Indeed. Sponsored Jobs Put your post at the top of the page and and help you reach the right candidates faster. I know that if I ever needed to hire someone for this show. I would go straight to Indeed and be very specific about what I needed, which is real experience and not just some resume buzzwords that sound good on paper. So spend more time interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes with less stress, less time and more results. Using Indeed Sponsored Jobs and and listeners of this Show Get a $75 sponsored job credit to help give your job the premium placement it deserves@inn Indeed.com lot done NFL just go to Indeed.com lot done NFL right now and support the show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the Right Way with Indeed. Welcome back to the Lot Done Cowboys podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. If you haven't done so already, check out the new everyday club. You're going to get ad free episodes to the Lockdown Cowboys podcast for just $5 a month. Go to locked on cowboys.supercast.com to join the club. All right, let's talk about Jason Whitten, the other Cowboy player who did not make the hall of Fame. He was one of the 15 finalists. I think a lot of people thought he was a lock to make it this first time around. Not the case.
- [13:27]
C
Yeah, I mean, you know, when, when while you're still playing, you've earned the nickname, you know, Gold Jacket Wit. I, I think there are, it comes with a certain level of expectation. But again, I, I point back to the fact that there are a lot of deserving, you know, people that, that were nominated and clearly like you, you know, it's hard to look through the list except for the, you know, the, the kicker and, and see somebody that maybe that shouldn't have been, you know, in this hall of Fame group. So, yeah, it's tough because I do wonder like if you don't, if he doesn't make it after the first go around, does, does he fall victim to some of the, the kind of Woodson stuff? Right. Because he comes up, there's, it's an era where he comes out where there's a lot of really good tight ends. You know, we've seen in the past that they can get like the hall of Fame can get sort of like position exhaustion as far as like certain number of era, you know, positioned like a certain position. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, with Gonzalez in that same era and then, you know, Gronk and all that stuff, like maybe there's, that's weighing into this even though obviously Gronk's coming a little bit later. But I. I wonder how much that kind of plays into hall of Fame voters heads, too, right? Like, they know the kind of players that are coming up as well. So. I don't know. I mean, again, pointing back to the. The kind of flawed process here, I. I do have concerns that, like, some of these guys, it's, like, if they're not getting in initially, the backlog is a problem. But also, it's just they. They don't. They're not still in the forefront of people's minds, and so they. It's easy for them to kind of get lost in this. And look, I mean, we. We've said some unkind things about Whitten at the end of his career here, and. And, you know, we felt like it was past time for him to go at times.
- [15:20]
A
I think that hurt him, honestly. Yeah, I. I really do. I think. I think if he doesn't play that final season in Dallas in 2019, after retiring in 2018, and not play, if he didn't play that season with the Raiders, I do wonder if people look at him differently, and that's not really fair to Whitten. But again, these voters are the voters. I. I'm trying to be as nice as possible here, Landon, but I. I wonder if he just stays retired after the 2017 season, if he's not already in the hall of Fame.
- [15:51]
C
Well, if it does. Maybe even just for sequencing reasons, right? Like in the timing of stuff. But.
- [15:55]
A
But.
- [15:56]
C
But, yeah, I mean, I. Like, I think what I was gonna say is I think he's deserving. Like, I think he deserves to be in the hall of Fame. Like, neither. Neither one of these guys, like Woodson or Whitten, like, do I look at that situation and go, oh, maybe? Like, I feel like both of them are deserving to be in the hall of Fame. It's just, like, because of this process, because of these voters, because of the way the timing worked out specifically with him, you may be right. It may. It may be too. Too long ago. There's been too much time since his elite seasons for. For voters to kind of, you know, view it like that. But I think a guy that played as elite as he did for as long as he did and then played some very good football for many years after that, you know, like I said, I think he's deserving.
- [16:46]
A
And it's not really fair to judge players by their postseason success, you know, at a position like tight end. But if you look at the. The players that made the hall of Fame, Adam Venatori won multiple Super Bowls. Roger Craig won multiple Super Bowls. Larry Fitzgerald played in a Super Bowl. Luke Keakley played in a Super Bowl. Drew Braves won a Super Bowl. Jason Whitten never made it to an NFC Championship game, and he only played a few playoff games. Now Darren Woodson has the super bowl wins, which I was going to say wild part of that, but how many.
- [17:16]
C
Does Bill Belichick have? I was just. I'm just.
- [17:18]
A
I know.
- [17:19]
C
Asking for several people because, again, I. I think it's not even just that that Vitari is a kicker. Again, that's a point to him again. But he's the Patriots kicker. And so, like, for him to get in before Belichick is, you know, I mean, obviously he kicked with more than just the Patriots, but it. It really drives home the absolute ridiculousness of this process.
- [17:43]
A
And I. I'm in agreement with you about Whitten. Like, if he didn't get in this year, which obviously he didn't, I do think it's going to get harder because you're going to look at some of these tight ends coming up, whether it's Rob Gronkowski. If Travis Kelsey retires this year, he's going to be in line in the next five years. There are some pretty good tight ends even over the last couple of years that have, I don't want to say comparable stats because Jason Witten does have 13,000 yards, but do have more touchdowns played in a lot of big games played in Super Bowls. And I do wonder, like, could he be our next version of Darren Woodson, a guy that had an awesome career? It just gets lost in the shuffle a little bit.
- [18:23]
C
Yeah. I mean, it's certainly possible. And again, it's flawed process. It's an unfortunate situation. But, you know, they need to correct this because, you know, a lot of guys are losing opportunities.
- [18:34]
A
Yeah. Real quick, one more before we talk a little bit about the super bowl to just round out the show. Dak Prescott finished third in the Comeback Player of the Year award. Christian McCaffrey won it. McCaffrey had an unbelievable, unbelievable season. He was the only player in the 49ers to stay healthy all year, basically, which is ironic.
- [18:51]
C
Yeah.
- [18:52]
A
I think you could have made a really strong case for Dak. I thought he was awesome this year. And honestly, this might have been the best year of his career.
- [18:57]
C
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we talked about on the squad show that Stephen A. Smith, like, you know, was joking or he wasn't joking, that that is Dax windows closing. And I was like, Dak just Played a full healthy season and probably had his best season of his career. So. No, it's like. Yeah, I think, you know, considering what. What he came back from. Yeah, really another great. I mean, he's had a couple of these really great comeback years, so. And he's been up for this on this, unfortunately. I mean, unfortunately been up for this award before, so I'm not shocked. I don't think that. That he didn't win it, but I. I do don't think it diminishes how incredible his return specifically was this year.
- [19:38]
A
He did get a couple first place votes for the award. I think the funniest one, Sorry, it was Christian McCaffrey got 31 first place votes. Aiden Hutchinson got nine. Dak Prescott got six, Trevor Lawrence got two, Philip Rivers got one, which, again, we're gonna. I'm gonna keep picking on these Colts guys. I'm sure there's a Colts beat reporter out there that gave Philip Rivers comeback player of the year for playing three games off of, you know, coming off his couch. Tell me how that's better than Dak. I don't.
- [20:09]
C
I'll tell you again. I think that's an age bias thing more than anything, because all the old voters are like, I know what it's like to be 45, and I don't. I couldn't imagine coming off the couch. And he deserves to get this award. And I mean, it's. It is funny because, I mean, ultimately, the spirit of the word, like, you know, there's something there, but. Yeah, I mean. No.
- [20:29]
A
Well, I mean, I was gonna give Dak a lot of credit. I mean, he had this season after having a newborn. And I. Listen, I know how much, you know, how much energy gets sucked out of you having a newborn. So what are you actually incredible.
- [20:42]
C
What are you actually coming back from? From is a good question. You know, exactly. I need to get a little more credit for that.
- [20:48]
A
Right? Yeah. No sleep playing. You know, it's. It's unbelievable. So great season to Dak. It's unfortunate he didn't win that award, but I was gonna say maybe try to win it again next year, but. No, that sounds bad because we don't want.
- [20:59]
C
No, don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah, exactly. All right, let's.
- [21:02]
A
Let's talk a little bit about the super bowl, which is on Sunday. We haven't mentioned it at all because our team's not in it. We'll tell you some things that we are watching for next. This episode is brought to you by Robin Hood. What if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robin Hood Prediction markets. It's not you against the house, it's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robinhood Prediction Markets changes the game. It's people moving the action so when the momentum shifts, you can move with it. I've always known the game, but I never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge. But now I can actually take part. Live in a market powered by the people, you're no longer just a spectator. Play by play, you decide. Trade every play with Robinhood now available across the US and download the Robinhood app. Now to begin future and cleared swaps. Tradings involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contracts are offered by Robinhood Derivatives llc, llc, a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. This episode is brought to you by Home Chef. As the new year gets going, a lot of people are trying to simplify their routines and dinner is always a big one. Between busy work days, cold winter nights and packed schedules, having an easy and reliable dinner plan makes a huge difference. And that is where Home Chef comes in. Home Chef takes the stress out of cooking by delivering fresh pre portioned ingredients right to your door with easy to follow recipes that actually taste great. They're rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease. And it's easy to see why meals come ready to fit your schedule. 30 minute recipes, oven ready trays or quick lunches. And for a limited time only, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off your first box with free shipping and free dessert for life. Just go to home chef.comlockdown that's home chef.comlockdown for 50% off your first box with free shipping and free dessert for life. Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Welcome back to the Lockdown Cowboys podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen of the day. Just to close out the show, Landon, we have not talked about Super Bowl 60 at all, which is fine. First of all, who are you rooting for and what are you excited to see this weekend?
- [23:52]
C
I specifically am excited to see and I specifically am rooting for Tank Lawrence. I think Tank is a guy to me that I've always been a huge fan of. I am excited to see him, you know, get this opportunity and I hope he, I hope the Seahawks win so that he gets a chance. I just think the Seahawks are the better team, the more deserving team. To me, like they've earned it. Like in a way that feels like the Patriots stumbled backwards into the super bowl in a way that it's like almost shocking. You know, I, I, it's not that they didn't earn their opportunity, but in a year where there's no Patrick Mahomes and there's no Lamar Jackson in the playoffs and then, you know, for the, for the way for you to win those other games, the way that you did win those games, I just, I don't know how battle tested they are going into this and I think that if we're gonna pin the biggest mismatches, you know, 1 to 25 or whatever, number one this match in this game, without a doubt is that Seattle defensive line and the Patriots offensive line. And, and I think as good as Drake May has been, I'm not sure if he's going to be able to overcome that. And, and it'll be tough.
- [25:06]
A
I think I'm rooting for Seattle as well. I, I've always liked Tank Lawrence. I know he said some not great things about the Cowboys leaving, but, you know, he wasn't wrong. Maybe this will wake up the Cowboys front office up a little bit. I think you're starting to see that a little bit more with some of the aggressive trades that they made with, you know, George Pickens and Quinn and Williams. You've even heard Jerry Jones talking about being more aggressive this off season. But I also like Seattle because it's a, they just play differently than other teams. I like watching teams play under center, utilizing the play action game. I love how fast their defense is. I, I want to see, I want to see what guys like Nick Iman, Wari, if he plays, how they're using him. Because I would not be surprised if Christian Parker is looking for, yeah, a similar type of player, a safety that can play in the slot, that can play in the box, that can be kind of your star position and make the real, you know, real impact on this defense.
- [26:03]
C
Yeah, I, I think, you know, Parker and McDonald's are, are different. Right. But I think you look at the idea of a kind of back to front, sort of defensive, you know, coverage first ideas. And I think that's a very similar kind of broad philosophy and you can kind of see that enacted. And yeah, I think the nickel position sort of represents that. Right. Like having the ability to play a nickel all the time because you have such a versatile player, such a large player. Who can also also, you know, playoff blocks and be like basically another linebacker out there. It gives you an advantage because teams can't move you out of nickel. And as we've all talked about, the most effective passing formations are run formations, and that's usually because of what the defense does in reaction to those run formations. But if the defense doesn't react, if the defense stays in the past defense, when you're in a run formation, it negates that advantage and suddenly it's not as efficient. And that's, that's the kind of, you know, extra edge that Seattle defense has found under this new administration.
- [27:09]
A
One thing I want you guys to watch this Sunday is watch the tackling by both sides. Yeah, these teams have loaded up on guys that don't miss tackles. And I think, and I know it sounds so simple, but it's one thing I would love to see the Cowboys really improve on this year. You know, the off season is Seattle's got every guy in their secondary is going to tackle. Every linebacker is going to fly to the ball and wrap up. Same for New England. The Cowboys just didn't have that last year. Whether that was because Trayvon Diggs didn't want to tackle or Savon Rebelle was still getting used to the NFL physicality. They've got to find three or four guys that just are reliable tacklers because it makes a huge difference. And I think you'll see that on Sunday.
- [27:53]
C
I think it's worth mentioning that Sonny Styles missed zero tackles during the regular season of his last year, had his first missed tackle in the last game played of the year in the first drive and that was the only one he had all year. Just throwing that out there.
- [28:07]
A
That's good call. All right, that is it for today's show. We'd like to thank you for making Lockdown Cowboys your first listen every single day. If you never miss an episode, the everyday club is built for you. Get locked on Cowboys ad free members only, discord access and so much more. Head over to Lockon cowboys.supercast.com to join the club. And for those of you on video, we can send you the first ever 20247 national NBA YouTube channel. And on audio, make your second listen the locked on NFL podcast. Follow Landon on Twitter @mccoolbcb. I'm @marcus_moser. Enjoy Super Bowl 60. We'll see you right back here on Monday.
- [28:52]
C
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