London Real Podcast Summary

Episode: Kostas Chalkias - Is Sui "The Apple Of Web3"? The Fastest, Most Scalable Blockchain Ever
Date: February 28, 2025
Host: Brian Rose
Guest: Kostas Chalkias (Chief Cryptographer & Co-founder, Mysten Labs, creators of Sui blockchain)

Overview

This London Real episode hosted by Brian Rose features Kostas Chalkias, renowned cryptographer and co-founder of Mysten Labs, the team behind Sui—hailed as possibly "the Apple of Web3." The episode dives deep into the story, technology, and vision behind Sui, exploring what sets it apart amid fierce competition in the layer one (L1) blockchain space. The discussion ranges from Sui's Silicon Valley-rooted innovation culture, breakthroughs in user onboarding and security, the impact of the Facebook/Libra saga, the blockchain and AI convergence, and Sui's global ambitions—especially its bold move into Dubai as a strategic innovation hub.

Main Themes & Purpose

What makes Sui unique: Both technically and in terms of team culture, compared to other L1s.
The Lightning Pace of Innovation: How Mysten Labs channels rapid experimentation and relentless engineering.
Transition from Facebook/Libra to Sui: Lessons, losses, and opportunities transformed.
Making Blockchain Mainstream: Solutions for usability and mass adoption (ZKLogin, sponsored transactions).
Global Strategy: Why Dubai, and how Sui is seeding talent and building institutions worldwide.
AI and Crypto's Symbiosis: The promise and perils of AI-powered blockchains.
Vision for the Future: Sui's role as a foundational layer for the decentralized world—perhaps even the "Apple of Web3."
Culture & People: The unsung value of world-class, multidisciplinary teams.

Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. The "Apple of Web3": Sui's Vision

[00:01] Kostas: "We're creating a new landscape where whatever you had on web two, it's possible. Now on web three, we have the fastest network in the world... that's why I believe it's going to be the Apple of web3."
[04:53] Brian (summarizing Kostas's quote): “Honestly, I won't be surprised at all if Mysten Labs and anything that it touches surpasses the levels of what Apple is today...”

2. Team, Not Just Tech, Makes the Difference

[05:24–09:24] Kostas: Describes forming Mysten after the Libra exodus, assembling an unprecedented concentration of talent with alumni from Facebook, Google, Netflix, Microsoft, and over 60 PhDs.
[07:48] Brian: “So many founders talk about the tech… But... it’s not the tech, it’s the team?”
[08:05] Kostas: “The most important one… This is how we’re following this property in our organization. And we just hire super smart people to work on the most difficult problems in the world.”

3. Sui’s Technological Innovations

Language and Speed

[11:56] Kostas: “The only other language that managed to be better and safer than Solidity is Move. And we created Move starting from Facebook... I created all of the cryptographic stack... imagine 300,000 transactions (testnet)... latency half a second. Who could imagine it?”

Usability and Onboarding

[15:08] Brian: “The 12 word key phrase is terrible.”
[15:10] Kostas: “The 12 word doesn’t work. Mnemonic never scales... we invented zklogin—the first zero knowledge proof login with Google or Facebook or Apple. Google doesn’t know your address, which was magic... Now onboarding can happen in 12 seconds.”

User Interface Breakthroughs

[15:47] Kostas: “You just need Google. And now we're going to have also passkeys like with your face ID and imagine for micropayments and all of these things. It's amazing.”
[84:25] Kostas: “We even had actually natively sponsoring transactions... watch the video for one second and you get your first (coin/credit).”

Ecosystem and Developer Experience

[81:59] Kostas: “We created on purpose a solution engineering team… do not help SUI itself, help our partners.”

4. From Libra to Sui: The Untold Facebook Story

[23:14–34:00] Kostas: Recounts joining Facebook/Libra, the top-tier talent brought in, and the lessons learned from building for billions vs. the DeFi niche. Ultimately, it was regulatory, political, and timing issues (COVID, US administration change) that killed Libra.
- [25:36] Kostas: “For me, (joining Facebook) was a no brainer… at that time Google, Apple and other companies didn’t... have anything related to Web3.”
- [30:40] Kostas: “Six months before, I mean, people who are in leadership, they understand it's collapsing. So we left. Everybody wanted to leave. And then somehow we all met almost independently... So we created Sui.”
[32:56] Aptos Split: The difference between Aptos (clone of Libra codebase) and Sui (radically improved, innovative fork), plus a candid take on competitiveness in Web3.

5. Sui vs. The World: Competitive Landscape

[36:25–43:53] Kostas on Competitors: Sees Sui as both technically and organizationally ahead of L1 rivals: “I'm telling you, I like science... I had Solana in the past... But Sui has a better technology.”
[41:15] Kostas: “SUI is not only for institutions... I believe we're going to win all of the meme, defi, gaming, institution space, all of them.”
[43:53] Brian: “Let's talk about Web2Social media companies… is this a threat to you or an opportunity?”

6. The Path to Mass Adoption

[44:28] Kostas: Talks about regulatory requirements (GDPR, privacy, fraud detection) and genuinely solving the bottlenecks for big Web2 platforms to move on-chain.
[45:53] Kostas: “You have to build extra tools on top of the existing blockchain... that's why we hired so many people to solve the identity problem.”
[48:22] Kostas on Social Networks: For mass adoption, either a big incumbent (Meta, X, TikTok) or a killer new app must drive a Web3 social platform to critical mass.
- [54:33] “It's not easy. We haven't found still this feature that will make the difference for people to move into crypto.”

7. Dubai: Sui’s New Strategic Base

[55:46–61:09] Kostas: Explains the choice of Dubai for Sui’s regional hub: access to fast-moving regulators, proximity to developing markets, ease of striking deals, and the chance to seed a new talent pipeline.
[56:06] Kostas: “Ask who is the most talented team in Dubai at the moment regarding innovation and engineering. Forget the world, it's SUI…”
[58:58] New Accelerator: “Sui Hub is an accelerator… 631 applications if I remember correctly, which probably the top in the world.”
[63:10] On Sleep and Culture: “I even have a driver who is getting me from my house for two hours. I tell him, go around, get me to Jumeirah, then come back and I want to sleep for two hours in the car. Only for sleeping just in the car? Yes.”

8. AI & Blockchain: The Coming Convergence

[64:21–70:00] Kostas: “I believe many of the real world assets will come into the blockchain, period. Gold, real estate, stables... (plus) AI is a driver for crypto adoption.”
[67:36] “We need ways to have verifiable AI because otherwise we will not have good ways. And blockchain has the tools to do it.”
[70:05] AI as a Security Tool: “AI is domain agnostic... it can even run a soft audit tool to give you templates of what can possibly go wrong.”
[72:33] “I found one inflationary (token) that the founders didn't know was inflationary. I called them 2am. Go fix it. So they did.”
[73:36] On AI Disruption: “Content creators, accounting, maybe coders, lawyers—especially on junior levels... we might replace all of the junior and mid developers with AI gradually.”
[76:13] “Can you imagine down the road that we might have created artificial life having a drone with AI that has a 3D printer inside it? It's connected to the blockchain... How do you control this artificial life?”
[78:40] Reputational AI: “We have the identities of the users and then there is a reputation system and we can try to figure out as a DAO… who is a bot and who is not.”

9. Crazy Ideas, Culture of Relentless Innovation

[87:45–97:03] Session on "Kostas' Crazy Ideas":
- Toothboard (keyboard in your mouth), internet-less transactions via SMS, FM radio blockchain access, AI hardware on-chain, underwater networks. All demonstrate Mysten’s experimental engineering culture.
- [90:56] Kostas: “I removed (the sensor) now and I'm going to put an AI.”
- [94:15] Kostas: “I implemented sending by SMS and I have a full node who is accepting SMS payments…”

10. The Next Five Years: Quantum Resistance, Parallellization, Privacy

[101:05–107:25]
[101:12] Kostas: “Quantum resistant.”
[106:53] Sui’s Apple analogy: “Trillion dollar company applications that are used on every mobile phone and the innovation pace or even on the UX and even on the hardware that we're going to invest might also be owned by users. Like SUI will be owned physically by users.”

11. Blockchains Make Web2 Better

[112:07] “Go do AI verifiable AI without blockchain in a few years... And this AI will beat humanity. Blockchain might be your friend here.”
[114:28] “Do you know what crypto means in ancient Greek?... Hidden secret… cryptography means writing in secrecy...”

Notable Quotes & Moments

[00:01] Kostas: "We are creating a new landscape... That's why I believe it's going to be the Apple of Web3."
[10:19] Kostas: “My background. I named my son Crypto. So, I mean, what can you do better to actually devote your life for this?”
[15:10] Kostas: "Mnemonic never scales. And we invented… zklogin… now the most used zero knowledge proof technology across any industry in the world."
[36:29] Kostas: "Innovation? ... No [other L1s]."
[63:22] Kostas: "I even have a driver who is getting me from my house for two hours... and I want to sleep for two hours in the car. Only for sleeping just in the car? Yes."
[76:13] Kostas: "Can you imagine… a drone with AI that has a 3D printer inside it? It's connected to the blockchain... How do you control this artificial life?"
[90:56] Kostas: "I removed it [tooth sensor] now and I'm going to put an AI."
[94:15] Kostas: "I implemented sending by SMS and I have a full node who is accepting SMS payments."
[101:12] Kostas: “Quantum resistant.”
[106:53] Kostas: "Trillion dollar company applications that are used on every mobile phone... might also be owned by users."
[114:28] Kostas: “Do you know what crypto means in ancient Greek? Hidden secret… cryptography means writing in secrecy..."
[118:09] Brian: "Freedom of speech is a luxury without freedom of finance, because if you can't eat... speech is a luxury."

Timeline of Important Segments

00:01-01:34 – Sui’s origin story and philosophy: "Apple of Web3"
04:53-09:24 – Assembling the elite team from Facebook et al.
11:56-16:00 – Why Sui’s stack (Move, consensus, zklogin) changes the game
23:14-34:00 – Lessons from Facebook/Libra: Team exodus and rebirth as Sui
36:25-41:10 – Comparing Sui, Aptos, Solana, L1 landscape
43:53-54:33 – Why social media giants struggle to move on-chain; what Sui offers
55:46-61:09 – Dubai as Sui’s new base: Talent, regulation, first-mover advantage
64:21-70:00 – AI and crypto: Opportunities, synergies, and dangers
87:45-97:03 – “Crazy ideas” and hackathon culture fueling Sui’s edge
101:12-107:25 – Five-year vision: Quantum resistance, hardware, and Sui as Web3’s Apple
112:07-112:23 – Crypto innovations benefiting Web2: Towards verifiable AI, transparency for the world

Tone & Concluding Insights

The conversation is candid, energetic, and brimming with optimism—characteristic of startup founders at the vanguard of technological disruption. Kostas combines deep cryptographic knowledge with the restless curiosity of an inventor, whereas Brian brings an outsider’s clarity and the perspective of someone passionate about the social promise of decentralized technologies.

Final Messages:

Sui’s core strength is its world-class, innovation-led team, turning bold vision into usable, scalable tech.
The journey from Facebook’s Libra to Sui epitomizes how setbacks in the regulatory landscape can seed entire new ecosystems.
Web3 real-world adoption hinges on solving user onboarding, compliance, and global accessibility—areas where Sui claims significant progress (“the Apple of Web3”).
The intersection of AI and blockchain will be both transformative and fraught, requiring collective vigilance and new security paradigms.
Dubai was chosen as a springboard for Sui’s next phase: a strategic intersection of East and West, regulation and openness, talent and ambition.
The relentless hackathon/maker mindset ("commando teams") is ingrained at every level—from founders to interns, and is considered core to Mysten/Sui’s differentiated culture.
Sui positions itself not just as a tech company, but as an enabler of societal transparency, financial inclusion, and freedom—aligning itself with the biggest movements in decentralization and AI.

To connect with Kostas or Sui:

Sui Hub
Twitter: @kostas_crypto

“Who would name his own son Crypto? …It feeds me. It’s my hobby.” — Kostas Chalkias [114:13]

For those seeking a deep dive into how world-class engineering, relentless innovation, and a global vision are creating Web3 infrastructure for the next billion users, this episode is essential listening.

London Real Podcast Summary

Overview

Main Themes & Purpose

What makes Sui unique: Both technically and in terms of team culture, compared to other L1s.
The Lightning Pace of Innovation: How Mysten Labs channels rapid experimentation and relentless engineering.
Transition from Facebook/Libra to Sui: Lessons, losses, and opportunities transformed.
Making Blockchain Mainstream: Solutions for usability and mass adoption (ZKLogin, sponsored transactions).
Global Strategy: Why Dubai, and how Sui is seeding talent and building institutions worldwide.
AI and Crypto's Symbiosis: The promise and perils of AI-powered blockchains.
Vision for the Future: Sui's role as a foundational layer for the decentralized world—perhaps even the "Apple of Web3."
Culture & People: The unsung value of world-class, multidisciplinary teams.

Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. The "Apple of Web3": Sui's Vision

[00:01] Kostas: "We're creating a new landscape where whatever you had on web two, it's possible. Now on web three, we have the fastest network in the world... that's why I believe it's going to be the Apple of web3."
[04:53] Brian (summarizing Kostas's quote): “Honestly, I won't be surprised at all if Mysten Labs and anything that it touches surpasses the levels of what Apple is today...”

2. Team, Not Just Tech, Makes the Difference

[05:24–09:24] Kostas: Describes forming Mysten after the Libra exodus, assembling an unprecedented concentration of talent with alumni from Facebook, Google, Netflix, Microsoft, and over 60 PhDs.
[07:48] Brian: “So many founders talk about the tech… But... it’s not the tech, it’s the team?”
[08:05] Kostas: “The most important one… This is how we’re following this property in our organization. And we just hire super smart people to work on the most difficult problems in the world.”

3. Sui’s Technological Innovations

Language and Speed

[11:56] Kostas: “The only other language that managed to be better and safer than Solidity is Move. And we created Move starting from Facebook... I created all of the cryptographic stack... imagine 300,000 transactions (testnet)... latency half a second. Who could imagine it?”

Usability and Onboarding

[15:08] Brian: “The 12 word key phrase is terrible.”
[15:10] Kostas: “The 12 word doesn’t work. Mnemonic never scales... we invented zklogin—the first zero knowledge proof login with Google or Facebook or Apple. Google doesn’t know your address, which was magic... Now onboarding can happen in 12 seconds.”

User Interface Breakthroughs

[15:47] Kostas: “You just need Google. And now we're going to have also passkeys like with your face ID and imagine for micropayments and all of these things. It's amazing.”
[84:25] Kostas: “We even had actually natively sponsoring transactions... watch the video for one second and you get your first (coin/credit).”

Ecosystem and Developer Experience

[81:59] Kostas: “We created on purpose a solution engineering team… do not help SUI itself, help our partners.”

4. From Libra to Sui: The Untold Facebook Story

[23:14–34:00] Kostas: Recounts joining Facebook/Libra, the top-tier talent brought in, and the lessons learned from building for billions vs. the DeFi niche. Ultimately, it was regulatory, political, and timing issues (COVID, US administration change) that killed Libra.
- [25:36] Kostas: “For me, (joining Facebook) was a no brainer… at that time Google, Apple and other companies didn’t... have anything related to Web3.”
- [30:40] Kostas: “Six months before, I mean, people who are in leadership, they understand it's collapsing. So we left. Everybody wanted to leave. And then somehow we all met almost independently... So we created Sui.”
[32:56] Aptos Split: The difference between Aptos (clone of Libra codebase) and Sui (radically improved, innovative fork), plus a candid take on competitiveness in Web3.

5. Sui vs. The World: Competitive Landscape

[36:25–43:53] Kostas on Competitors: Sees Sui as both technically and organizationally ahead of L1 rivals: “I'm telling you, I like science... I had Solana in the past... But Sui has a better technology.”
[41:15] Kostas: “SUI is not only for institutions... I believe we're going to win all of the meme, defi, gaming, institution space, all of them.”
[43:53] Brian: “Let's talk about Web2Social media companies… is this a threat to you or an opportunity?”

6. The Path to Mass Adoption

[44:28] Kostas: Talks about regulatory requirements (GDPR, privacy, fraud detection) and genuinely solving the bottlenecks for big Web2 platforms to move on-chain.
[45:53] Kostas: “You have to build extra tools on top of the existing blockchain... that's why we hired so many people to solve the identity problem.”
[48:22] Kostas on Social Networks: For mass adoption, either a big incumbent (Meta, X, TikTok) or a killer new app must drive a Web3 social platform to critical mass.
- [54:33] “It's not easy. We haven't found still this feature that will make the difference for people to move into crypto.”

7. Dubai: Sui’s New Strategic Base

[55:46–61:09] Kostas: Explains the choice of Dubai for Sui’s regional hub: access to fast-moving regulators, proximity to developing markets, ease of striking deals, and the chance to seed a new talent pipeline.
[56:06] Kostas: “Ask who is the most talented team in Dubai at the moment regarding innovation and engineering. Forget the world, it's SUI…”
[58:58] New Accelerator: “Sui Hub is an accelerator… 631 applications if I remember correctly, which probably the top in the world.”
[63:10] On Sleep and Culture: “I even have a driver who is getting me from my house for two hours. I tell him, go around, get me to Jumeirah, then come back and I want to sleep for two hours in the car. Only for sleeping just in the car? Yes.”

8. AI & Blockchain: The Coming Convergence

[64:21–70:00] Kostas: “I believe many of the real world assets will come into the blockchain, period. Gold, real estate, stables... (plus) AI is a driver for crypto adoption.”
[67:36] “We need ways to have verifiable AI because otherwise we will not have good ways. And blockchain has the tools to do it.”
[70:05] AI as a Security Tool: “AI is domain agnostic... it can even run a soft audit tool to give you templates of what can possibly go wrong.”
[72:33] “I found one inflationary (token) that the founders didn't know was inflationary. I called them 2am. Go fix it. So they did.”
[73:36] On AI Disruption: “Content creators, accounting, maybe coders, lawyers—especially on junior levels... we might replace all of the junior and mid developers with AI gradually.”
[76:13] “Can you imagine down the road that we might have created artificial life having a drone with AI that has a 3D printer inside it? It's connected to the blockchain... How do you control this artificial life?”
[78:40] Reputational AI: “We have the identities of the users and then there is a reputation system and we can try to figure out as a DAO… who is a bot and who is not.”

9. Crazy Ideas, Culture of Relentless Innovation

[87:45–97:03] Session on "Kostas' Crazy Ideas":
- Toothboard (keyboard in your mouth), internet-less transactions via SMS, FM radio blockchain access, AI hardware on-chain, underwater networks. All demonstrate Mysten’s experimental engineering culture.
- [90:56] Kostas: “I removed (the sensor) now and I'm going to put an AI.”
- [94:15] Kostas: “I implemented sending by SMS and I have a full node who is accepting SMS payments…”

10. The Next Five Years: Quantum Resistance, Parallellization, Privacy

[101:05–107:25]
[101:12] Kostas: “Quantum resistant.”
[106:53] Sui’s Apple analogy: “Trillion dollar company applications that are used on every mobile phone and the innovation pace or even on the UX and even on the hardware that we're going to invest might also be owned by users. Like SUI will be owned physically by users.”

11. Blockchains Make Web2 Better

[112:07] “Go do AI verifiable AI without blockchain in a few years... And this AI will beat humanity. Blockchain might be your friend here.”
[114:28] “Do you know what crypto means in ancient Greek?... Hidden secret… cryptography means writing in secrecy...”

Notable Quotes & Moments

[00:01] Kostas: "We are creating a new landscape... That's why I believe it's going to be the Apple of Web3."
[10:19] Kostas: “My background. I named my son Crypto. So, I mean, what can you do better to actually devote your life for this?”
[15:10] Kostas: "Mnemonic never scales. And we invented… zklogin… now the most used zero knowledge proof technology across any industry in the world."
[36:29] Kostas: "Innovation? ... No [other L1s]."
[63:22] Kostas: "I even have a driver who is getting me from my house for two hours... and I want to sleep for two hours in the car. Only for sleeping just in the car? Yes."
[76:13] Kostas: "Can you imagine… a drone with AI that has a 3D printer inside it? It's connected to the blockchain... How do you control this artificial life?"
[90:56] Kostas: "I removed it [tooth sensor] now and I'm going to put an AI."
[94:15] Kostas: "I implemented sending by SMS and I have a full node who is accepting SMS payments."
[101:12] Kostas: “Quantum resistant.”
[106:53] Kostas: "Trillion dollar company applications that are used on every mobile phone... might also be owned by users."
[114:28] Kostas: “Do you know what crypto means in ancient Greek? Hidden secret… cryptography means writing in secrecy..."
[118:09] Brian: "Freedom of speech is a luxury without freedom of finance, because if you can't eat... speech is a luxury."

Timeline of Important Segments

00:01-01:34 – Sui’s origin story and philosophy: "Apple of Web3"
04:53-09:24 – Assembling the elite team from Facebook et al.
11:56-16:00 – Why Sui’s stack (Move, consensus, zklogin) changes the game
23:14-34:00 – Lessons from Facebook/Libra: Team exodus and rebirth as Sui
36:25-41:10 – Comparing Sui, Aptos, Solana, L1 landscape
43:53-54:33 – Why social media giants struggle to move on-chain; what Sui offers
55:46-61:09 – Dubai as Sui’s new base: Talent, regulation, first-mover advantage
64:21-70:00 – AI and crypto: Opportunities, synergies, and dangers
87:45-97:03 – “Crazy ideas” and hackathon culture fueling Sui’s edge
101:12-107:25 – Five-year vision: Quantum resistance, hardware, and Sui as Web3’s Apple
112:07-112:23 – Crypto innovations benefiting Web2: Towards verifiable AI, transparency for the world

Tone & Concluding Insights

Final Messages:

Sui’s core strength is its world-class, innovation-led team, turning bold vision into usable, scalable tech.
The journey from Facebook’s Libra to Sui epitomizes how setbacks in the regulatory landscape can seed entire new ecosystems.
Web3 real-world adoption hinges on solving user onboarding, compliance, and global accessibility—areas where Sui claims significant progress (“the Apple of Web3”).
The intersection of AI and blockchain will be both transformative and fraught, requiring collective vigilance and new security paradigms.
Dubai was chosen as a springboard for Sui’s next phase: a strategic intersection of East and West, regulation and openness, talent and ambition.
The relentless hackathon/maker mindset ("commando teams") is ingrained at every level—from founders to interns, and is considered core to Mysten/Sui’s differentiated culture.
Sui positions itself not just as a tech company, but as an enabler of societal transparency, financial inclusion, and freedom—aligning itself with the biggest movements in decentralization and AI.

To connect with Kostas or Sui:

Sui Hub
Twitter: @kostas_crypto

“Who would name his own son Crypto? …It feeds me. It’s my hobby.” — Kostas Chalkias [114:13]

Kostas Chalkias - Is Sui "The Apple Of Web3"? The Fastest, Most Scalable Blockchain Ever

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Summary

London Real Podcast Summary

Overview

Main Themes & Purpose

Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. The "Apple of Web3": Sui's Vision

2. Team, Not Just Tech, Makes the Difference

3. Sui’s Technological Innovations

Language and Speed

Usability and Onboarding

User Interface Breakthroughs

Ecosystem and Developer Experience

4. From Libra to Sui: The Untold Facebook Story

5. Sui vs. The World: Competitive Landscape

6. The Path to Mass Adoption

7. Dubai: Sui’s New Strategic Base

8. AI & Blockchain: The Coming Convergence

9. Crazy Ideas, Culture of Relentless Innovation

10. The Next Five Years: Quantum Resistance, Parallellization, Privacy

11. Blockchains Make Web2 Better

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timeline of Important Segments

Tone & Concluding Insights

Final Messages:

Summary

London Real Podcast Summary

Overview

Main Themes & Purpose

Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. The "Apple of Web3": Sui's Vision

2. Team, Not Just Tech, Makes the Difference

3. Sui’s Technological Innovations

Language and Speed

Usability and Onboarding

User Interface Breakthroughs

Ecosystem and Developer Experience

4. From Libra to Sui: The Untold Facebook Story

5. Sui vs. The World: Competitive Landscape

6. The Path to Mass Adoption

7. Dubai: Sui’s New Strategic Base

8. AI & Blockchain: The Coming Convergence

9. Crazy Ideas, Culture of Relentless Innovation

10. The Next Five Years: Quantum Resistance, Parallellization, Privacy

11. Blockchains Make Web2 Better

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timeline of Important Segments

Tone & Concluding Insights

Final Messages: