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- [00:01]
Raghu Balla
What's going to happen next is going to revolutionize how everyone is going to see agents. Synergetics is powering the Asian economy. One morning I woke up with this epiphany. I said, oh, I can see the future. The next four hours, I was just feverishly typing all of my ideas, which became the pattern. It's a set of building blocks that you need in order to make the Asian economy happen. You and me are going to create our own digital twins. They look like us, they'll talk like us. Your twin could be shopping for you while you are busy doing other things. You can be so much more productive. All of the devices, they will be agents. Every car, every parking meter, every toll booth, everything around us is going to become a smart device.
- [00:47]
Brian Rose
I know you talk to companies like Google and Deloitte. You're going to try to help them send those agents out into the real world. That's what got our attention.
- [00:55]
Raghu Balla
Every company has sort of moved from a human centric workforce to a hybrid workforce made up of humans and agents. Now it's a question of whether you can catch up or not.
- [01:09]
Brian Rose
You're a head learning facilitator of MIT courses. What's it like being associated with that institution and then going there regularly and be able to meet with all the people that come there?
- [01:20]
Raghu Balla
When you get these really bright minds together in a room, it's just incredible what happens because that starts to then germinate into various branches of ideas that you then connect later on.
- [01:36]
Brian Rose
You've had four exits. What keeps you excited? What keeps you building?
- [01:42]
Raghu Balla
I'm just passionate about the field I want to be in on the next new thing. Let's focus on what's cool and let's go and do that. And that's what keeps me driven.
- [02:03]
Brian Rose
The world is changing. Inspiration is everywhere. It has never been so easy to connect, share and bring people together. We're learning from others and finding the best in ourselves. Challenging our beliefs, sharing our vulnerability, overcoming our fears, transforming ourselves so we can transform the world. How far can we go? This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is. Hey, I know investing in crypto is scary. It takes a real leap of faith because there are so many scams, rug pulls and bad actors out there. It's a dangerous business, which is why 95% of people lose all their money. Well, that's why I created the London Real Investment Club. So you can access the hottest deals on the planet and use the crypto bull market to create the generational wealth that you Deserve join my team of over 100 people from around the world that are making millions of dollars behind the scenes investing in blockchain, AI web, three games, DeFi, Bitcoin and more. Don't miss out. Click the link below to book a call with one of my team now. But hurry, this bull market will end soon. I know investing crypto can be scary. That's why you gotta join the investor club. Pull the trigger. Let's do this. This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Raghu Balla, the technology entrepreneur, educator and founder of Synergetics, a company which is powering the tokenized AI agent economy with the world's first patented A to A communication protocol. You've held senior roles at Yahoo, InfoSpace and PwC, had four successful startup exits and hold an MBA from the Wharton and a Master's degree in computer science from RPI. You're also the head managing instructor for two U's MIT Sloan School's AI and blockchain programs and an adjunct professor at VIT in India. @ Synergetics, your mission is to empower the agentic AI ecosystem. A world where autonomous AI agents, digital twins and devices can interact, transact and learn. With the upcoming launch of the SGTX Token, Synergetics is helping build the financial and technical backbone of the agent economy. Raghu, welcome to London Real.
- [05:00]
Raghu Balla
Thanks for having me Brian, it's great having you here.
- [05:02]
Brian Rose
I want to start by saying that Synergetics is one of our portfolio companies here at London Real Ventures, the world's first media powered investment firm where our mission is to transform the world by investing in cutting edge web3 and AI companies while giving our partners exposure across the London Real media platforms and academies. We heighten awareness, create customers and build communities by leveraging our global audience and network. Raghu, we are super excited to be part of this journey with you. So let's jump in. What is Synergetics?
- [05:31]
Raghu Balla
So Synergetics is powering the agent economy. So for all of us have seen other economies develop. So for example if you look at YouTube, so it's a meeting place for creators, for advertisers and consumers to come in and they all transact. I mean consumers consume content, creators create that content and advertisers help monetize that content by sharing the proceeds with the creators. So the same way we are seeing the same movement happen again but this time around for agents. And so currently what's happening in the industry is everyone has used probably ChatGPT so that's like the first real consumer version of AI. AI has been around for a long time. I've used it even during my Yahoo days. But for the everyday person, AI has been sort of not within reach, but until ChatGPT came around. So ChatGPT is a simple application that's built on top of a model and so on. Right. So what happens is now AI is just almost like think of it as electricity. Now what came after electricity was your light bulbs. You had electric trains, you had television, motion picture, you had everything. All of those powered by electricity. So the way I look at it is foundation models are like electricity. They give us the building blocks, now what do we do with it. And agents are the first sort of manifestation of that electricity in a kind of a kinetic form where it can start to do things. And so agents currently are being used by enterprises within the organization. But then that's a sort of a short term trend. I mean, it's the beginnings, the foundations. But what's going to happen next is going to revolutionize how everyone is going to see agents. Because what's going to happen on the consumer side, you and me are going to create our own digital twins. Our twins will be replicas of us. They look like us, they'll talk like us, they'll speak in many more languages than you and I even know, but they can be our sort of alter ego online and be able to conduct transactions on our behalf. So, Brian, you might be running or practicing for your next marathon, but then your twin could be shopping for you while you are busy doing other things. And then you have empowered your twin to do various things and it will complete those tasks. And so you can be so much more productive. But the same thing with companies. Companies are going to have twins or the agents be able to transact with other agents outside the enterprise, with their suppliers, their partners, so on and so forth. So for that to happen, you need the agent economy in place. And that agent economy needs many building blocks. And that plumbing, those building blocks are what we have built in agentworks, our flagship platform.
- [08:43]
Brian Rose
And is that based on the patent that you have on this a to a technology? It was one of the reasons we were really drawn to you, because there's a lot at stake here. And if you get this wrong, I mean, you could ruin companies, you could lose billions, I would think. And so this exact protocol is important. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about the patent and how your tech is different.
- [09:04]
Raghu Balla
Sure. So actually one morning, I think in 2024, I woke up one Sunday morning, I don't know, maybe I had a good night's sleep or whatnot. I woke up with this epiphany. I said, oh, I can see the future. I know exactly when this happened because the next four hours I was just feverishly typing all of my ideas, which became the patent. But it's a set of building blocks that you need in order to make the agent economy happen. So the first building block is agents need to have identity. So without identity, nothing else matters, but that identity needs to be registered somewhere. And that's where the registry comes in. So the registry is like a yellow page, old fashioned yellow page where you look up people's names. Here you look up the ID of the agent. So why do you need that? You need that for a process called discoverability. So I'll just give a quick note on that. That's very important. It's very crucial part, which is why we are partnered with MIT Media Lab on these registries. So for instance, kind of a funny quiz I give some of my co workers. I said if you have one person, you need no connections. You got no one to connect with. If you have two, you have one connection. If you have three people, you have three connections. A connects to B, A connects to C, B connects to C. If you have four people, A connects to B, A connects to C, A connects to D, and then vice versa, all of them connect. It's six connections. So it's called N times N minus 1 over 2. The O problem in computer science, that means it's got a complexity of N squared. Now when you have a registry, that complexity gets down to one. That means if I want to connect with you, I don't need to know your address a priori, I just have to look it up in the registry and say, let me get the address of Brian twin and then connect with Brian's twin like that. So this is, I know it gets a bit technical, but it's very important because it reduces complexity. So the idea is all the agents in the world will ultimately register themselves with the registry. So we have our registry. Other companies like Google and Salesforce and ServiceNow and so on, they're all creating registries. And so the folks at MIT and us got together and one of the things that we decided to build, co develop was a registry of registries which is like a yellow pages of yellow pages where all of the world's agents can be somehow traced. And so if anyone wants to talk to anyone, they can look it up and that becomes like an index Very similar to how Google is an index of web pages. There's an index of all the agents in the world. So that's a critical building block. So you have id, you have registry. The next thing, if you want the agent economy to function just like you and I carry our driver's license in our wallet, the agent has a wallet. And that wallet contains not only a driver's license, we normally carry credit cards or currency so that you can go out and buy a cup of coffee. So same way here, the agents have got a wallet which has cryptocurrency or stablecoins. And now that's the third building block. The fourth building block is where the A to a protocol comes in. So at this point I've described an ID and so on. We have the agent also has a name, so we have the lock on twin. So you can have Brian twin. That TLD belongs to us. We have partnered with unstoppable domains on that. So then the next step is this agent will have to communicate with websites or with other agents. So this is where A2A comes in. So websites, you can connect via this protocol that anthropic produced, which is becoming the standard for industry called MCP model context protocol. And then with other agents, you need to use agent agent protocol. And this is where we had our patent approved in February of this year. It's called Agent talk and it describes how two agents will communicate with one another. And the first level is basically authentication and authorization to make sure that you are who you really claim to be. And to prevent that, whenever we add agents to a registry, we go through a process called kya know your agent, similar to KYC and kyb, that's already there in the banking world, kya. Now, second level of the protocol is vocabulary. So for instance, if you go to a math class, the conversation is about math. But if you go to a soccer practice, the conversation is most likely about soccer, nothing to do with math. So there are vocabularies in every conversation that happens. So the same way we have created an extensible set of vocabularies, but we have given it away as open source in the sense that any company can extend vocabularies, you can build whatever vocabulary you want. So a canonical example that we have is these agents can not only manifest themselves in the virtual world, but they can also manifest themselves in the physical world. For example, a car can be an agent and a parking meter can be an agent. The same car conveying agent with a toll booth or a fast food drive through. But those three vocabularies are different because parking meter only understands parking and the fast food will only understand, let's say Wendy's fast food will only understand Wendy's menu and that vocabulary. So these vocabularies will become numerous over time. So that's the crux of our protocol. And I'll segue into something which is kind of interesting because when we approached Google recently after I saw the VP give a talk at the MIT Media Labs event in July, and we approached him and he said, you guys have introduced A2A, which is after we came to market. But then we want to go in the spirit of collaboration because there's no use for multiple standards to be in industry. It's better to coalesce towards something that everyone will use. It will be beneficial for the whole ecosystem. So we have come together to try to extend A2A, and there are benefits of A2A, and then we have certain unique attributes and benefits. So we are now working closely with Google and other players in the market for agent payments. And so that's a huge area. But I'll stop there. If you have more questions, we'll get into agent payments a bit more.
- [16:16]
Brian Rose
So this is a huge piece. And you know, I'm good friends with Yatsu of Animoca Brands, and I'm good friends with Dan Tapiero, who runs a whole suite of funds called 50T and he invests billions of dollars. And both of them have been telling me for years that they were really bullish on blockchain because it was the only mechanism where AI and AI agents could compensate each other with these micro transactions and fast transactions. And they've been talking about this for years before I really saw it coming into practice. And I remember I asked you a question on our Zoom call, and I asked this question a lot to our potential portfolio companies. I said, I think I said, raghu, why do this on the blockchain? I think I said, why screw this up by putting it on the blockchain? And you came back with a really powerful answer of why you needed payment rails on the blockchain. And I was wondering if you could tell us why the blockchain is not only important, but maybe it's the only way you can have these agents communicate with each other.
- [17:15]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. So for example, there are some new protocols that have come about even since we spoke. It's kind of incredible. So now, first of all, let me cover blockchain. So if you look at the payment rails of the traditional banking system, the settlement Time is two days. You're not going to have a car talking to a parking meter which needs to park now, needs to pay now. And you come back and tell the parking meter, I'll make sure the money gets to you in two days. That's not going to fly. So you need something which is immediate. And one of the things that afflicted the blockchain space was gas fees. We all have, you know, Those in the Web3world know about these fees. They were somewhat expensive, exorbitant at times. And so now there's a new protocol called 402 which is on chain, but the transaction fees is less than, it's like 0.001 cent, something like that. And so this is becoming very popular now. And so I believe that will become a primary way in which agents pay other agents. Because these microtransactions we are talking about, we are talking about a few cents. You cannot have a gas fee of 10 bucks for something which you are paying a few cents for. It makes no sense. So that's to be really almost negligible. And that's what 402 does.
- [18:41]
Brian Rose
That's an Ethereum protocol, I believe.
- [18:43]
Raghu Balla
So Coinbase is behind it. But the fact remains that blockchain is the only way in which you need to establish these payments because it's the only universal way in which agents anywhere in the world can pay otherwise. If you look at the banking system, when you go to different countries, they have different. They all sort of somehow have got correspondent banks and get to Swift in some way, shape or form. But it's many layers and lot of charges. Which is why when you send funds, let's say if you send it over certain cryptocurrencies, it's like a few cents and then if you send it over your bank and in the US it's $45 per transaction regardless of what I'm sending. So it's not even, it's a non starter. So blockchain is the only way. And then within blockchain we have to go down to the least expensive way of doing it. And I think these microtransactions are going to be numerous. In fact they're going to outstrip the number of transactions that we see with humans involved in payments.
- [19:58]
Brian Rose
Okay, and I think you also said on top of that you're looking at a 3% transaction charge for everything on credit cards and debit cards. Is it slow? It's just prohibitive?
- [20:09]
Raghu Balla
Yes. So what happens is once you have the. There are three layers there, there's the banks. Then there is sort of a gateway fee and then you have the providers, which is it could be your paypal and other players over there. So all of them take a cut.
- [20:29]
Investment Club Member 1
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- [21:16]
Raghu Balla
You remove the middleman. What is 3% actually goes down to 0.54%. And now I'm seeing that even with this 402 even it's even lower than that. It's not even 0.54 like way lower. So the 0.54% is when you use stablecoins. But now I think this 402 even beats stablecoins in terms of payment. So it's numerically, I mean mathematically the only way to do it.
- [21:43]
Brian Rose
Okay, you mentioned blockchain. Are you working with any of the blockchains? And if so, is it Ethereum? And how does that work look right now.
- [21:51]
Raghu Balla
So right now we have an agent wallet, the world's first agent wallet, which can be used by the owner of the wallet and his proxy, which is his twin. Same thing applies for B2B as well. So this wallet is multi chain. So we have Bitcoin, all the Ethereum variants and all the Solana variants. And now we're adding Avax because NASDAQ is going to tokenize all stocks apparently on Avax. So tokenized stocks. So we start and this is a multi chain wallet. There's a mobile app on iOS and Android that anyone can download. And also the Agent version of it is an API version. It's not visible to the, you know, it's like running behind the scenes. And so we also, the registry that we have, we started off with Polygon, but we're moving it to Base because Base is beginning to be like a major player in that space and we want to be as mainstream as possible. We don't want to give any reason for anyone to not adopt these technologies because it's too important. Kind of a wave that's coming.
- [23:04]
Brian Rose
Yeah, I think base is a really smart move. You know, we look, we, we speak to a lot of startups in web3 and we fund a lot of startups. And right now, when I talk about where they're going to launch their token, it's almost always base number one, and perhaps Solana number two. And what base gives you is first of all an amazing layer two on Ethereum where you can transact fast and cheaply, but it also potentially gives you access to every coinbase user and maybe every coinbase institutional user.
- [23:31]
Raghu Balla
Right.
- [23:32]
Brian Rose
And they're doing a lot of custody for a lot of big entities, including, you know, I think the US government, they do custody right now for their crypto, so. And they're pushing it with their own social network, etc. So I think that's really smart. You know, when it comes to agents, you know, we've all heard these great dreams that an agent is going to do all these things for you, but I know we haven't always seen that in practice. And I know you talk to companies like Google and Deloitte and these other big companies that, like you said, are using agents internally, but that's only going to get you so much. You're going to try to help them send those agents out into the real world where things get dicey and dangerous.
- [24:11]
Raghu Balla
Right.
- [24:11]
Brian Rose
Can you talk about some of the challenges that the industry is facing, you know, with that final step, you know, of putting agents out in the wild and then these businesses, these B2B plays, because that's where you unlock a lot of value. One of the reasons we decided to invest in Synergetics is that unlike most AI plays in Web3, they're selling the services to the Web3 players. And this is a big mistake people make in crypto is they build big. They build crypto tech for the crypto bros and realize there's no audience and then the company goes nowhere. You know this. But when you guys were saying we're talking to Google, we're talking to these huge institutions, that's what got our attention.
- [24:52]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, So I concur with that. The issue is this. When I went to the Web three conferences or when I go to the Web two conferences, there are almost like two religions at play, the AI guys. And then when I go to the Web three conferences, there are crypto guys and both are talking about decentralized AI, but then they are seeing different things. So we set out to say that okay, what are the things that will easily see mass adoption? So when you look at decentralized AI, it's made up of three types of AI, Decentralized compute, decentralized data, and decentralized identity. So when we talk to enterprises, I know for a fact that they don't want decentralized compute and they don't want decentralized data. They're very protective of their data and they want to run it on machines that they control. So decentralized compute and decentralized data doesn't work for them. So we said, okay, we will not endorse or go that route, but they are okay. Decentralized id. So if you take any enterprise, any big company, you know, when you look at their workforce, almost, I would say 90, 95% of the people in the company work internally. They're working on internal things like finance or marketing or whatnot. But then about 5%, the C level people, the sales people and some marketing people, they'll have to have outreach with external folks. So, same way for agents, what's going to happen is you're going to have this sort of bifurcation. You're going to have agents that work inside the company and will not interact with anything outside. And then you're going to have a few agents which will have contact points with external people. So if I take a finance department, for example, let's say a public company, usually the auditor is an external company like pricewaterhouse or Deloitte or KPMG or whatnot. So there'll be some people in the finance department who will interact with the auditors outside. And so imagine this is an agent on your enterprise side and this is the agent on the other side. So you'll have some interactions. So now there is a sort of epiphany happening where companies are starting to think, oh yeah, we are using agents internally, but soon they'll have to interface with outside agents. And so I had an opportunity to talk to the chief AI officer, Fidelity, recently in a conference in a kind of open setting. And I asked them this very question, are you starting to interact with agents outside your enterprise? And he said, that's definitely a movement towards that. First of all, they're doing it within their various divisions. They almost run these divisions as independent entities. And so there's agent to agent communication among the divisions itself. And then soon they'll have communications with agents outside their company. And so that movement is there. Now the example I always give is from a US context, so I can use my driver's license and go to the airport and fly anywhere within the us. But then if I want to go outside the us, for example, I'm here in UK today, I have to carry my passport the same way. Think of the internal ID that is used within the enterprise as your driver's license. So agents inside the enterprise, they trust each other and they can start to communicate with one another. But then when you want to talk to agents outside, now you have a trust problem. You need a passport. And so what is that passport? So we started to create this registry where you register these agents and so on. And then MIT's Initiative Nanda that came along that built this registry of registries and so on. Now, in speaking of consensus, There's a new ERC standard called 8004. It's called Trustless Agents. It's exactly what we built, but they have standardized it. So now we are speaking to them to participate in 8004 to at least become a reference implementation of it. Because we have already built it where these agents are now when they say trustless, meaning no agent needs to trust each other, it can look it up in a registry. And the fact that you are in that registry means that any two agents can trust one another. And so that's what we built is now becoming standardized. And that's a very, very good thing. It's a very healthy thing for the market. And also gives you this property of discoverability, so anyone can look up anyone and go and contact and so on. If you don't have that, you have this peering problem that I mentioned earlier. Everyone needs to have these n number of connections to one another a priori, which is, I mean, once you have billions of agents, that's an intractable problem. It's like, you know, you can't do that anymore, so you have to simplify it. And this 8004 is the right step at the right time. And so we are actually glad to be working with the likes of Consensys and Ethereum on that.
- [30:18]
Brian Rose
So you're not out there trying to defend your patent and get people to stop using. You created this agent agent protocol and when other people want to adopt it, you're like, okay, let's welcome this. We want to be the standard. And you know that you just stay ahead of the innovation curve and your business is ahead of the rest of the innovation curve and you'll grow and reap the rewards just by being on the front lines there.
- [30:42]
Raghu Balla
Exactly. I mean, we're talking about some really well established companies. We are still a startup and we need to know our place in the world and obviously we have lofty goals, we want to be a unicorn and so on. And every startup should aim for the moon, aim for staff sort of thing. But the issue is we understand these other players, where they are, how much power they wield and we have to work collaboratively with them and that's the best way to do it. Otherwise you create these kind of islands of technology that then they don't interoperate and there's a problem. In fact, there are a lot of agents which have already been developed with certain tools like Crewai, LangChain, Gemini and so on. They are all these agents, but the number one problem that they have is they don't talk to one another. And so what we did is we actually have given away to the ecosystem something called Agent wizard that gives these agents the same properties that our agents natively have. Id, name, wallet, the ability to connect and all of these. Why we're doing this is because we believe that if people adopt these capabilities over time, we'll benefit either directly or indirectly and using our tools and other things. So that's a better approach. While we cannot tell everyone to switch over, we rather be, you know, like the O blood group. You can, you can accept anything, you can, you know, you don't need to force people to adopt your way of doing things.
- [32:31]
Brian Rose
This is the perspective of a multiple time founder talking right now, right? And there's that old adage that first time founders focus on product, second time founders focus on distribution or collaboration. And I know this is like 5 and 6 and 7 for you when it comes to companies you've started and founded, but it really speaks to your experience because the guy, the young kid starting off is like, no, it's got to be my way and everybody else is copying me. And you're thinking the opposite. You're thinking, we want to give these protocols away, we want to be the standard, we want to move things forward. It's a whole different mentality, isn't it?
- [33:05]
Raghu Balla
Right? I mean, I think, I think the way to really build market share is be friends and partners with everyone. And that's our approach. We want to be. You want to be in the middle of the conversation, you got to, you cannot make enemies, you have to collaborate. Because the space is so broad, it's growing. You know, by the time we have this end of this interview and this conversation, there'll be two new things that have come up that I have to go and read up. That's how fast it's moving. And so we have this approach of being woven into the fabric of everything that's going on. And I think that's the right approach.
- [33:53]
Brian Rose
Next big milestones for you. Is it about landing those big clients like Google and Deloitte? Is it about really getting into their ecosystem and providing them the service? Or is there something else that you look as a major metric to get you to the next level?
- [34:09]
Raghu Balla
So the main thing is the big players. Obviously these collaborations with Deloitte, hp, Google and other things are a means to an end. The end customer would be the large enterprises and they are the ones who need to adopt this technology. And that's on the B2B side. On the B2C side, it's equally exciting because I'll just throw this out there to you. There are 7 billion people, 8, maybe 7. 8 billion people on Earth today. Do you know how many phone calls we make to each other per year?
- [34:46]
Brian Rose
How many?
- [34:47]
Raghu Balla
Five trillion. That's crazy.
- [34:50]
Brian Rose
Five trillion calls between seven or eight billion people.
- [34:53]
Raghu Balla
Exactly.
- [34:53]
Brian Rose
Wow.
- [34:55]
Raghu Balla
And so we use that metric. It's kind of interesting metric because when we had to come up with the market size of what we are talking about, the enormity of what we are talking about, we went back to MIT Media Lab and we asked, how many agents do you think will appear in the market over the next five years? You know what their number is? One trillion. Okay. Seven billion people. I'm just using people as a kind of example, as like a parallel 7 billion people. They think 1 trillion agents. And then we said, okay, let's be a bit more conservative. We'll say 100 billion. Still a big number. It's almost 10 times the human population. And then we said, okay, another interesting metric is how many devices do you have? I mean, I'm talking about developable. Obviously there are some poor people in impoverished countries. I'm not talking about them. But in the developed world, let's say a billion of the people on Earth are in the developed world, let's say. How many. How many devices do you have?
- [36:00]
Brian Rose
I mean, just this would be like a desktop, a laptop, a phone and other wireless devices. Yes, I got an OURA ring. I mean, it's a lot. I have a lot of phones, man.
- [36:12]
Raghu Balla
A lot of phones.
- [36:13]
Brian Rose
A lot of 10. Okay. I'm in tech and stuff.
- [36:17]
Raghu Balla
It's a great number. 10 is a good number. So if you just take that, it's already. And only 1 billion people. I'm talking about the other six. I'm just ignoring for now. That's already 10 billion devices. Guess what? One of the conversations we're having is with Samsung Research. We are working with their team.
- [36:39]
Brian Rose
Samsung, yeah.
- [36:41]
Raghu Balla
And one of the things that they have I think publicly also stated all these companies, all the appliance companies, whether it's LG or Samsung or whatnot, all of the devices right now they are called smart devices. They will be agents. All of them are going to be agents. All your cars are going to be agents. I was the CTO for automotive.com and there is a rumor and I think it's true, but Tesla cars have had wallets built in since 2016. That's what a lot of people say. I cannot confirm or deny that but. But I do know for a fact that Daimler for example introduced a wallet that can be plugged into cars in 2018. And so what happens is it's like these cars are going around with these wallets but no one to talk to. Now the Wendy's Drive through in America is actually AI powered. It can be an agent. So theoretically it's not a very distant hop to say that the car, a self driving car, can go through the drive through, order Brian Burger, fries and Coke and come back while you are shooting something in the studio. It will come back to you with the food and you can pick it up. You don't need to call DoorDash, you'll come and pick it up or whatever service there is in the uk. That's the level of automation we are talking about. Just to state this again, there's 10 billion agents for 1 billion people times 10 is one side of it. But you talk about every car, every parking meter, every toll booth, everything around us is going to become a smart device. In fact we have already proven it. We have a Jetson Nano which is a small piece of hardware that Nvidia puts out and we run Nano GPT on it. And so this can be added to any other device. So we are in talks with one of the big, we're actually in the middle of setting up a proof of concept for Carrier Corporation which is one of the big companies in cold chain, supply chain and refrigeration and so on, and air conditioning for buildings, H Vac company. So one of the things that they are interested in is possibly, we're still in early preliminary talks, but putting agents within every truck to ensure that the food or the pharmaceutical doesn't get spoiled. So that might seem like a very simple problem, but it's not. Because what happens is every item that you carry in such a truck has got different temperatures at which it will remain fresh.
- [39:24]
Investment Club Member 2
What the London Real Investment club actually does for you, it gives you the keys to open that door to the inside deals. In the last three weeks, I've participated, participated in three incredible deals. A layer two, Bitcoin protocol, an incredible AI protocol. The deal flow is beyond what I expected. I don't think I've ever seen a model like this that just gives average folks the opportunity to be behind the deals. And that's exactly what we've done. Not only that, you get to hang out with Brian Rose every week. And for me, that was huge because I look at Brian as somebody who's not only an expert in the space and I think is on the leading edge, but just the leading edge of thought with London Real and the work he's doing there. To anyone who's taking a serious look at this, I know it's a big decision. It was a big decision for me and my family and it is one of the best decisions I've ever made. So I wish you all the best and hope you come join us.
- [40:21]
Raghu Balla
It'll spoil too cold and it gets frozen and brittle and it might spoil too warm. It might also be gone. So you have to be very careful. And so they don't only want smart devices, but smart devices that can think quickly and without human intervention. And it's sitting somewhere. And this. They actually do business throughout the world. China, Mexico, Europe, us. So these vehicles may be anywhere and they want to make sure that there's intelligence in those remote places. And this idea is not only for one company. Almost every company out there in logistics would have to start thinking in this way. So I'm saying this. 100 billion agents is not a big number if you start thinking a bit broadly.
- [41:15]
Brian Rose
And the scale just keeps going and going and going. I saw recently the rugby players here in Britain now have smart mouthpieces and they'll actually. A light will go on if the player has received a concussion. Now, apparently they used to have them where you could test afterwards, but now it'll start blinking to where the referee and everybody can see it and they have to pull the player out based on the concussion. And again, just yet another introduction of a device that probably needs to be an agent.
- [41:46]
Raghu Balla
Yeah.
- [41:47]
Brian Rose
And can have all sorts of other things going on and. And there's going to be. There's going to be so many. Every human is probably going to have hundreds.
- [41:56]
Raghu Balla
It's funny you brought up sport because, you know, as I told you, I'm a British soccer Fan. So, you know, sometimes players, after they score goal, they take off their shirt, and then I always see them wearing a kind of a, you know, male, like a bra type of thing. Like a, you know, small thing. I didn't know what it was. I said, every player wears this thing. And then I discovered later on that this has got a tracking device at the back which shows their movement, how much ground they covered in the game, how many passes they made. It covers a lot of things. They're all wearing it inside their jersey.
- [42:32]
Brian Rose
And vitals as well.
- [42:33]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, it does everything. And I was like, oh, that's why they're wearing. I was thinking, what is it a sports thing that these guys wear this thing? It's not. It's a tracking device. And then I noticed at the back, just behind their neck, there's a kind of a sensor. And it's kind of strange. So it's interesting that you mentioned concussion protocol, but they're already doing a lot of sports science. Almost every team, professional team, now, has got a sports science department that analyzes player movement, where they, you know, how much ground they're covering, how many passes, how many headers, how many this and that. So interesting that you mentioned that.
- [43:07]
Brian Rose
And in the NFL, they're all mic'd up now. And now with various subscriptions, you can go listen to what this guy's saying and this guy's saying and this guy's saying, and you'll be able to track that. So, yeah, the future is going to be filled with agents. And I want to ask you a question. You're an MIT Sloan School professor?
- [43:26]
Raghu Balla
I'm a Head Learning instructor.
- [43:28]
Brian Rose
Okay, Head Learning instructor. I mean, you spend a lot of time at the Institute now. I spent four years of my life there from 1989 to 1993, and I knew at the time how special that place was. But as I get older and older, I value that experience even more. There's something about MIT that is just. It's different than any other place in the world. And I still remember, even when I was a punk kid and I was getting a little cynical about school in my junior and senior year, when I would walk into, you know, lobby 7 on 233 Mass Ave, and I would look down the infinite corridor and I'd walk by all these Nobel Prize winners, and when I would go study at 3 in the morning in one of those rooms, I just knew I was in a special place. And you've obviously spent time there, and you continue to go back there. And I know you've met the Google people there and a bunch of other different pieces. What's it like being associated with that institution and then going there regularly and be able to meet with all the people that come there? How are your interactions different at mit, at the Sloan School than they would maybe in any place else?
- [44:37]
Raghu Balla
So I think when you go to institutions like mit, what happens is, first of all, I don't go there with sort of a commercial mindset. I go there with a sort of academic learning, research mindset. And to me it's very nourishing because every time I visit these events or conferences or get togethers, like what Steve Jobs used to say, I get a lot of dots and I get a lot of ideas, but then they don't connect at that time. And then maybe days later, weeks later, months later, even years later, they'll start to start to connect by themselves or through some. Maybe I'm sitting next to a person in the airplane or something like that, I have a conversation, ah, okay, let's put that dot together. So when you get these really bright minds together in a room, it's just incredible what happens because that starts to then almost sort of sprout or germinate into various branches of ideas that you then connect later on. And you also get to know what other people are thinking about, where they are going, what they are doing. And in fact, three research papers recently were published that I had the privilege and honor of being able to be one of the co authors for AgentIC AI with some of the researchers at MIT. Also there were external participants from, I believe, Salesforce, Cisco, Carnegie Mellon and so on. So it's really interesting to collaborate. And we have these working groups that we throw around ideas about how this sort of space will start to evolve. And I think if you don't open yourself up to these inputs, you're actually losing out. And also these events are surprisingly either inexpensive or free. Anyone can watch these things even online. So I'd encourage anyone to, whenever these things come up, it's nanda MIT Edu, which is the Internet of AI Agents. And it'll be interesting because all of us are going to experience bits and pieces of this in the coming years. I would encourage everyone to sort of at least follow at a cursory level what's going on.
- [47:23]
Brian Rose
Must be nice to take off your commercial hat a little while and go into kind of a research and ideas exploration hat and then go back to implement it. Yeah, and implement it. Right?
- [47:34]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. So one of the things that I actually take pride in Is actually not just talk the talk or even write the papers, but actually try to find real world use cases immediately. Because there is something about industry which is a very good. Because you can write anything you want in academia, but only when you implement it, you will come across the economic barriers. There is a lot of things in science that you can say on paper you can do it, but in reality it's too expensive. So it is a good sort of teacher to teach you. Like, okay, you know what, this is good theoretically, but really practically not going to fly. So when you start to implement, then you might tweak it. You might say, okay, version one of it might only go this far. And so it gives a different sort of way to bring it to market and different skill set needed.
- [48:30]
Brian Rose
Yeah. And very important. And then you've got to sell that thing and see if anybody actually uses that and then see if it can make money.
- [48:38]
Raghu Balla
Right.
- [48:38]
Brian Rose
That's a whole nother world.
- [48:40]
Raghu Balla
That's a whole nother world. Absolutely.
- [48:41]
Brian Rose
One of the reasons I was drawn to engineering at MIT is because I think I always liked that practical side. And so, you know, I had friends of mine that were physics majors and other majors, but man, when you're an engineer, there was a famous course at MIT called 270 where you, they give you a box full of wheels and gears and motors and you have to build something that's going to fight with another student's project. And it's all public and they've been streaming it lives even since I was there. And you literally battle these robots out and you have control over them. And so they're probably implementing AI technology now. And so it was a real difference between, okay, you learn about how these things work, but then when you have to put it into practice, you realize that a lot of that goes out the window.
- [49:24]
Raghu Balla
That thing is now evolved into these swarm bots.
- [49:28]
Brian Rose
Okay, gotcha.
- [49:30]
Raghu Balla
Intelligent swarm bots. And these actually these swarm bots collaborate with one another to solve a problem.
- [49:38]
Brian Rose
That's the next level, right? That's the next level. Yeah, that's the whole level. Tell me about what your next 12 months looks like for you. What is your single biggest challenge now? You know, running synergetics? What are the big milestones? You're obviously talking to a lot of the big players. They obviously recognizing that they need this agent to agent protocol. But what are the next big things you have to solve?
- [50:01]
Raghu Balla
So first what we have done is grow from inside out. So when I say that we are working with large companies to implement agents at scale. So if you look at just really fast first couple of years, companies have started to experiment with agents. But they have all been the singular agents, that is agents operating on its own. On their own. That's quite trivial actually. Now a lot of them are gravitating towards multi agent systems, that is agents collaborating with one another or collaborating with humans. That's more the type of thing that happens in companies daily. Now the next step is to a lot of it is education. We have to educate these enterprises to move towards agents communicating across enterprise boundaries. And like I said, the 8004 standard and other industries sort of like infrastructure being in place enables that transition to happen. So that's sort of the sort of the evolution that we are part of currently with customers on the sales side. As far as immediate priorities. Right now this, actually right now, this quarter we are talking about Q4. We are actively in discussions with a lot of companies because I was a C level at many companies prior to this. And this is the time where they set up the budgets for the next year. And companies set up budgets in two ways. One is like earmarked line item budgets and then discretionary budgets. So we want to get into those earmarked budgets because that will almost guarantee you revenues for next year and in business revenues, the lifeblood. So we want to get into those line items. So that's what we are really focused on in the very immediate short term. The second thing that we also plan to launch a token and things like that in discussions and moving that along probably with the eye towards seeing something next year. And it's got its own sort of trajectory there and then fundraising on the equity side and things like that that are going on to help strengthen the company's balance sheet and funding and so on. Because stability is important in the sales cycle as well. Apart from that, we are also keeping an eye on a lot of technology changes and our roadmap items. One of the areas that we are really focused on is building out a marketplace. So marketplace is where the four big constituencies in the Asian economy come together. One is enterprise creators, community and consumers. So all of them coalesce in that marketplace, similar to let's say Amazon marketplace. So the enterprises are coming there to either rent agents that are pre built or to hire community members for testing agents and any AI related tasks. The creators are there creating models, selling data, selling pre created agents. So there are a number of elements that they can sell or selling skills. So for example, a consumer might say I need a skill for my digital Twin to be able to book travel. But then you are not a developer. Let's say you just want to buy that skill. Similar to watching a movie on Netflix or renting a movie on Amazon Prime. You can rent a movie, so you rent a skill. So that skill might have been developed by someone who knows the travel industry well, who has built all the APIs into all the major airlines and travel sites and so on. They put the skill out there, you come in and you rent that skill, maybe a couple of bucks a month or whatnot, and then you can now have your agent go book travel and so things like that. So these, the ecosystem comprises of these four entities and we are actively launching the marketplace that's going to be almost the center point, the focal point of every everyone coming together to transact and that's the use of the token and things like that come into play. So that's a primary thing that we are focused on. Hopefully I'd say end of this quarter or early next quarter, we'll launch that.
- [54:36]
Brian Rose
And why is a token necessary? And then once you generate that token, what will be the utility of that token?
- [54:44]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, many types of use cases. Utility tokens or many, many types of use case. First of all, I think especially for the creators, they can earn. We want to create an ecosystem where not only people spend, but they also earn. So this is a great way to earn, you know, make a, make a living. Actually, a lot of people ask me, like, isn't AI going to replace jobs, but AI is going to create jobs and where is it going to create jobs in marketplaces? Like, you know, before YouTube became a big thing, right. Let's say around early 2000s, there was no such job as YouTube content creator. But there are people who make a Living on YouTube that their income is making content and they earn through creating content. Same thing for Instagram, same thing for a lot of other reels and TikTok and things like that. So now this Asian economy is going to create a lot of new jobs. And for that economy to function in a rational manner, we need a token. And that token will incentivize all of the players to participate and so on. So we believe it's a huge economy. And also, I have not even covered, we are talking about agents in the sort of virtual world primarily, but all the people who are, who are we called? Makers? I don't know whether you know the maker ecosystem where people use like your bots that you mentioned at mit, they can create all kinds of devices, medical devices or drones or all of those things will become agents. So now that community can participate in this. And so there's a lot of use cases that will derive a benefit. There's one other thing called a launchpad which is part of the tokenomics. The launchpad is where third parties who want to launch their own token business can launch it on top of this. So that's another big one.
- [56:49]
Brian Rose
Right. So you empower them to have their own token and they use that in their own AI agent ecosystem and it's paired with your token.
- [56:57]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, and also we give them all the tools, they use all the tools that we have and so that they don't need to be spending the time building all this plumbing.
- [57:06]
Brian Rose
Yeah, I think the virtual's marketplace was very ahead of the curve when it came to pairing their token with a bunch of other people's tokens. And it gave a huge injection of liquidity that was very needed. Because if you try to create your own separate agent with your own token, you're never going to be able to get the liquidity needed.
- [57:23]
Raghu Balla
Exactly.
- [57:24]
Brian Rose
So it's an important part of your ecosystem.
- [57:25]
Raghu Balla
So that's the same way like if you go back to Amazon. Right. You can create your own website or you can be a seller on Amazon.
- [57:32]
Brian Rose
Right.
- [57:33]
Raghu Balla
So which one gets more traffic? So that's the same argument.
- [57:38]
Brian Rose
This is the other indication of a multiple time founder. I think because you're already thinking about the marketplace, you're not just thinking build it and they will come. You're thinking, I have to collaborate and I have to create a marketplace where there's buyers and sellers, there's creators of the agents and users of the agents and make sure it's seamless like the App Store or the Amazon Marketplace. And you're already thinking that's the way to grow. And that's also the way to make sure the technology gets standardized as well.
- [58:06]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. The other thing that I failed to mention, all of these artifacts that are sold in the marketplace, they're actually NFTs. So NFT is the beautiful thing that people lost in the first sort of iteration of NFTs, whether it's CryptoKitties, all these art, digital art and so on, is NFTs are a great packaging mechanism. You can take anything and package it as an NFT. So now the benefit of having all these artifacts, AI artifacts in the form of NFTs, guess what? All of the existing marketplaces also become fair game. Your raribles, your opensea, all of those marketplaces are not alienated. They can now participate in Asian Economy. So that's also. We are not saying that our marketplace is the only marketplace. So the benefit is you create using our tools. You can place it in multiple marketplaces. It's an nft.
- [59:09]
Brian Rose
All right. Again, that's thinking about distribution as opposed to your own walled garden.
- [59:14]
Raghu Balla
Yeah.
- [59:14]
Brian Rose
Okay. So you could have an AI agent. It's an nft. It can trade anywhere.
- [59:18]
Raghu Balla
Exactly.
- [59:18]
Brian Rose
Okay. Wow. How is the crypto market feel for you? And how will that matter over the next 12 to 18 months? You're based in San Francisco, in LA. Okay. How. And how different does it feel from, say, 12 months ago?
- [59:36]
Raghu Balla
How do you get out of a rat race? How do you create wealth not only for yourself, but also for the generations to come after? I am absolutely amazed with the quality of companies that we're getting exposure to. We go on to zoom calls with.
- [59:48]
Brian Rose
The innovators and the folks who are building new applications in Metaverse, blockchain, artificial intelligence, decentralized finance. What's going on, everybody? Thumbs up if you can see me. We are focusing on early stage investment and the quality of people, people that we're getting exposure to, whether it be Dan Tapiora with one rt, Jason Ma from Open, Yatsu from Animoca.
- [60:11]
Raghu Balla
It's been a phenomenal experience thus far.
- [60:14]
Brian Rose
It has far exceeded my expectations.
- [60:16]
Raghu Balla
We are focusing on cutting edge technologies.
- [60:20]
Brian Rose
I view it now as the best investment I have ever made. The upside I view is unlimited. And as a retail investor, I would never get this exposure anywhere else outside of investment club.
- [60:32]
Raghu Balla
See you in the investment club.
- [60:35]
Brian Rose
Because it's obviously regulation and adoption, and now we have a president that talks about crypto pretty much every other day. What's it been like for you and are you super bullish over the next 18 to 24 months?
- [60:48]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. No, actually, I think every Web3 native person has been waiting for this day. I mean, it's been refreshing. We have all waited very patiently for almost, I would say almost 10 years, 12 years in some cases. And where everywhere you went, there was a roadblock and one had to set up sort of foundations in small island republics in order to find legitimacy. It's just, you don't. I believe soon there'll be a day where companies could launch, you know, things within America itself and not be subjected to all kinds of scrutiny or legal ramifications. So I think it's become mainstream. Almost all the banks are using it almost as a big movement by Amazon, Google, Fidelity, Walmart. Everyone is getting onto the bandwagon of either use of blockchain use of stable coins. So it's become mainstream, and that's a big boon. I think that really makes things very, very interesting. And now I think we can start innovating. And the big innovation that I see that's going to happen is actually this is the original innovation, but never took off, which is the whole idea of cryptocurrency, that people are using it for swapping, staking and, and speculation, but it's actually supposed to be programmable money. So now you can start to make your cryptocurrency programmable money in the sense that you can start to put in logic to say, so, for example, if you have a transaction between two parties, and let's say that the salesperson who sold this particular asset to this other person, he gets a 10% commission. So when this person pays $100, the smart contract itself will immediately kick a 10% commission this way and put 90% back to the wallet of the company that sold it. So that's programmable money. You don't need to wait for things to happen, or whether it be paying fees or taxes or this or that. All of those rules are built into the protocol. So that, that's where I see a lot of innovation that will happen now, now that people are now, okay, it's accepted, we're all good now let's start to innovate. And we see tremendous opportunity in all of that.
- [63:21]
Brian Rose
Yeah. Not only you could program your money, but also give it agency. Right. So it's programmable money, but also in a situation, make the decision that my digital twin would make the decision I would make.
- [63:34]
Raghu Balla
Exactly.
- [63:35]
Brian Rose
Based on my history.
- [63:36]
Raghu Balla
Exactly. Yeah.
- [63:37]
Brian Rose
That's powerful because you're right, we have programmable money on, you know, in smart contracts, but nobody really uses programmable money as a person. I don't say, guess what? Make this transaction this way based on this, this, this and this. And imagine how it would change my life if I just did that.
- [63:52]
Raghu Balla
That's a lot. I have actually a book. It's so funny. My daughter took this class at ucla. I didn't think of it at that time as being a class on programmable money, but it was something to do with. It's a whole book of all the ways in which money is used. Interest rates, bonds, payments for all types of things. So there are about 100 different formulas that I have on just how to program money. And I said, okay, I'm going to keep this book because I was helping her with teaching her on homework and other things. And when I looked at it, I Said, this is a blueprint for what blockchain is. You know, crypto is going to go. The next Venom is ready to go. This, this is what is going to happen next.
- [64:37]
Brian Rose
So, excellent. You've had four, four exits. What keeps you excited? What keeps you building, you know, why do you still get out of bed excited to build this new piece of infrastructure? What are the things that you're looking forward to?
- [64:54]
Raghu Balla
I mean, I'll be very transparent. So my four exits, I would say in a baseball sort of parlance, it's have been singles and doubles. So I'm looking for a grand slam home run that keeps me going. But outside of that, I mean, I've been growing up in Singapore. My first computer was Apple ii. And actually I went to a computer class and I was using the TRS 80. I don't know, that's a very old computer. So I've been coding since then and I'm just passionate about the field. So a lot of my friends who even took computer science and so on, they say, you know, you still at it? I'm like, yeah, I'm still at it. You guys gave up a long time ago, like one or two generations of technologies ago. And I'm still at it because.
- [65:47]
Brian Rose
Everyone.
- [65:48]
Raghu Balla
Wants to make money and so on. That's part of it. But that's a means to an end for me. For me, it's about, I want to be in on the next new thing. Money will come, but let's focus on what's cool and let's go and do that. That's what keeps me driven. In that sense, I'm ageless because I like to learn new things. Honestly, I think I've reinvented myself like five times over.
- [66:20]
Brian Rose
Well, you're in the most cutting edge technology out there. You're on the blockchain, you're in the AI space, and you're in the agentic space. And for B2B, I mean, that is on the cutting edge.
- [66:32]
Raghu Balla
Right.
- [66:32]
Brian Rose
And it's a great way to stay young because you're surrounded by smart people, great ideas, it's a super high velocity, it's riskier. But you can also build the most incredible technology.
- [66:44]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, those who don't see it sometimes we are so in it, we're reading so much about it. But if we step back, like I said earlier, it's like, AI is like electricity. When you are like in the early, whatever, late 1800s or early 1900s, if someone knew that, oh, you know what, when electricity is invented, Let me go and make the bulb or let me go and make the next thing. That can use that. People have to think, and those took years. Now it takes days or weeks. So you got to think. Like, you have to step back and say, you know what? What's going on? Oh, wow, AI has happened. And what has really happened, we have had computer programs that humans had to code and for computers to understand. Now just imagine computers can understand natural language. You can talk to, can then interpret what you said and start to even think. So that's a big deal. I'm just pausing for a second because we have to step back and see what just happened here. I no longer need to code to tell this thing something. It can understand what I'm saying in real time and then start to do things. So that's a big movement from taking some programming language and coding for weeks and putting it out there. So now if we take that by itself and then start to think, okay, I can extrapolate from here to all these other things. And I think that's where I think sometimes we are so deep into it that we miss the big picture. And if you look at history, whenever there's been some key innovation, a lot of people made a lot of money. But the ones who made money are the ones who could see that inflection point and then say, wow, that really happened. Now let me try to connect the dots. And that's why I see this as, okay, AI is great. And then generative, AI is really good. And then now, what can you do with agents? And then you can go, you know, you can just like, you know, go like 10x from here, 100x from here. Right.
- [68:55]
Brian Rose
You're a couple moves ahead now, and you see all this space out in front of you. Does it bother you, as a guy who put in the hard yards as a programmer to see these young kids vibe coding?
- [69:08]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. So I think I've actually admit I've tried it myself. The funny thing that I don't know if there are enough articles on this. The code that's generated, it's good as a framework. But when it comes to really having a production quality, I think we're still some ways off. And I've had to debug a lot of the code it generates, so I think we are a bit. But also, I fear one thing. In coding, there is some science and there's some art. You know, elegance in coding is very important, and how it's structured, how it's readable and usable and so on. I think that I'm just afraid will become a lost art and we should.
- [69:55]
Investment Club Member 1
Not investment club Today I consider it the best investment that I've ever made. We get four per projects presented a week by their associated CEOs. Personally, I'm completely blown away by the quality of these projects. And I know of nowhere else where I would be given this same opportunity. Each week that passes, I feel more appreciative fact that I'm a member of this group. The vibe was just tremendous. Everybody's on the same wavelength. We just clicked, everybody listened to each other, enjoyed their company. It was just magical. Magical. Take action. Don't take my word for it. Due diligence you need to do. And I really hope that someday down the road I see you in the club. It far exceeded expectations. Without questions.
- [70:43]
Raghu Balla
Have that happen.
- [70:44]
Brian Rose
Yeah, that can happen in any time where you start relying on a machine.
- [70:48]
Raghu Balla
Yes.
- [70:49]
Brian Rose
And that's something to.
- [70:50]
Raghu Balla
The debugging skill is very important because when you. If you ask any good developer, they'll say, when I debug, when I coded, and even now I code. When you debug, you are thinking like the compiler, you're thinking how the machine think, then only you can debug properly. If not, you don't know how to debug, then the wipe coding might take you down a path where you're just trying various things randomly without really understanding what's going on. So I think, I hope those listening don't still maintain their debugging skills. It's very important.
- [71:26]
Brian Rose
I think there's always going to be a place for the purists. And again, right now you can go and generate an image or a short film on these pieces, but if you spent 10 years learning the art of filmmaking, you're ultimately going to see it different and you're going to be able to ultimately provide value and maybe create something that's compelling because you've studied it so much that you know all the little details. You know, there's that great movie called Euro Dreams of Sushi, about this guy who makes sushi in Tokyo and the whole family's there, and one of the brothers, he made rice for 15 years. That was his only job. And until you make rice for 15 years, you don't get to touch the fish, right? And so he knows everything about rice. And you think, well, I mean, how long does it take to learn how to boil rice? But he does. And so he knows it better than anybody else knows it and knows all the details of it and can master it in a way. That somebody new can't. So I do think there'll always be a place for these people that really know their fields as a master to add and to make these things better.
- [72:31]
Raghu Balla
I think, I hope that whether it be in the movie making field or whether it's coding or anything else, that it's a sort of a human and machine collaboration, that there are pieces, we can use machines to accelerate the movie making process, for instance, and then there are things that is still left in the hands of humans to kind of have that craftsmanship around it. I think that mix is where the happy medium is.
- [73:02]
Brian Rose
Right. And that's really kind of using an agent effectively. Right? You're using an agent as a tool to help you achieve something. So, yeah, look, this is super powerful. You know, when I explain this to our, our group, you know, of investors, I always say to them, look, right now you might have a travel agent and they book your travel and you might have a personal trainer and they help you train. But I said, in the future you're going to have all of these agents and they're going to work together.
- [73:28]
Raghu Balla
Right.
- [73:29]
Brian Rose
So not only are you going to have these individual things that help you accomplish tasks, but now they're going to work together and create a whole brand new ecosystem and ideas and things you could never imagine. And that's why I'm. That's the way I kind of describe what you're doing with Synergetics. It's something we can't even imagine, but it's a way to scale everything that we do here to the next level. But it has to be based on correct protocols, all of these ways to make sure it's done correctly. And that looks like what you're building.
- [73:57]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. So a lot of security also goes into it.
- [74:00]
Brian Rose
Yes.
- [74:01]
Raghu Balla
So we have really taken a lot of pain to ensure that the secure communication, secure storage, the secure environments, even the agents that we build run on a secure execution environment, like a container, so that it cannot be infected by malware. The first thing you know is some guy, some nefarious guy is going to try to attack the agent and make it into a bad agent, a rogue agent. So to avoid that, so we have taken about seven different initiatives. And this is one of the sort of like tests that we were put through by our partners at hp, hpe, actually HPE for enterprises. And they really put us through the wringer in terms of like testing us. Like, what do you do? What do you do here, what do you do there? And I like it. Actually. They are very Very good partner and helped us improve. And that's what partners should do, help us improve and work with us collaboratively. And so the end product is better. But security is going to be very important, the cyber security. And now you're talking about AI security, which is another layer on top of that.
- [75:17]
Brian Rose
Yeah, so very, very important. Very important for people that are listening to us right now or watching us, how can they start using your technology? How can they embrace it, test it and find out what you're doing and also what you're doing coming in the Future, token launch, etc. What's the best way to learn more about what you're doing at Synergy?
- [75:37]
Raghu Balla
So a few ways. One is we are Quite active on LinkedIn X. We are still a little bit on the slow side. We have to get more stuff there. But the other way is we conduct a lot of webinars so that it's like informational sessions. That's another way to get involved. Also visit our website, we put out a lot of content, blogs, stuff like that. And then you can also email us because we have a sandbox. And so for those who want to test it, the sandbox, you can come to our website and sign up. There's a free trial for some of the tools. You can play with them and test them and use them and so on. And then after the trial period, there's a sort of upgrade path to something paid. But I think these are important tools to have for enterprises and so do come and test out our sandbox. Love to hear the feedback as well, to help us improve. And then I'm also on LinkedIn, you can always reach out to me.
- [76:39]
Brian Rose
And I'm guessing if you're watching us right now and you belong to a small or even a medium or a large size enterprise, I'm guessing the time to start thinking about AI agents is yesterday. Right. Because your competitors are going to do this and this tech is going to scale so fast that you're going to be out of business, I would guess, if you haven't been the one that adopts this.
- [77:02]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, I mean, it's getting to that point because every company has sort of moved from a human centric workforce to a hybrid workforce made up of humans and agents. And that is not going to change. That train has left the station. Now it's a question of whether you can catch up or not. And the ability of these enterprises to scale and have a competitive advantage over those who are still in the old world is going to be. It's not even like little, not 10%, 20%. You're talking about 10x in terms of speed, faster time to market, faster product, better customer service, lower cost. So it's going to be top line changes, bottom line changes and so on. It's going to be significant. And so the investment in Capex and so on has to happen now. It's almost, I'm not saying this, I listen to CNBC and other sort of channels and that's what's happening everywhere. And I think for good reason because the productivity improvements are significant. It's like what is that steam turbine to electric kind of movement is almost the same, same type of thing happening here. Right.
- [78:24]
Brian Rose
It's happening very fast.
- [78:26]
Raghu Balla
Very fast. Right.
- [78:27]
Brian Rose
And the ones that get in are going to have that quick development and the ones that are even a few months late could miss out everything.
- [78:33]
Raghu Balla
Yeah. Because this, you know there used to be this Moore's law. It used to be what, a year and a half? Doubles. 18 months, it doubles. I think I'm maybe facetious and things. It looks like 18 weeks.
- [78:49]
Brian Rose
You might be right. So almost like the AI improvement almost doubles every 18 weeks.
- [78:57]
Raghu Balla
Something like that.
- [78:58]
Brian Rose
Like four and a half months.
- [78:59]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, it's very fast. I mean I don't think I'm far off.
- [79:02]
Brian Rose
I don't think you are either.
- [79:03]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, it's very fast.
- [79:06]
Brian Rose
So get in, start adopting this play in your sandbox, start having the conversations. Because this applies to every single business out there and every single individual.
- [79:14]
Raghu Balla
Yeah, I mean we have customers who are smaller customers. The mid size and larger customers are making those investments right now and I think it's improved results tremendously. One of our clients actually in the healthcare space used to take about four hours to do data entry of medical records now takes 10 minutes. I mean like it's mind blowing. I mean I, I can't even. You can't even compare.
- [79:44]
Brian Rose
Yeah, yeah. It's not a 10 improvement like you said, it's like a 10x improvement. Yeah. Which just the human mind can't even comprehend. And so you're going to show up one day and yeah. That business isn't going to be there anymore. It'll be too late to do something about it.
- [79:59]
Raghu Balla
Exactly.
- [80:00]
Brian Rose
Raghu really enjoyed this conversation and it's been really exciting to get to see what you're doing. Our whole team is super passionate about synergetics. We have been from the start. You have that je ne sais quoi about you. You know, all these different aspects of your personality and your education and your background that just in my opinion. Scream winner. And so we're really pumped to be with you for the lifelong of this project and to continue to support you with media. Excited about the token generation event and beyond. And it just makes me really bullish on this whole industry. So thank you so much for the time.
- [80:35]
Raghu Balla
Thank you.
- [80:35]
Brian Rose
And looking forward to all the next steps. And from here it's to the moon, I think.
- [80:40]
Raghu Balla
Thank you. Thank you so much.
- [80:41]
Brian Rose
All right, thanks so much.
- [80:42]
Raghu Balla
Thank you.
- [80:48]
Brian Rose
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