Jinkx Monsoon

Summary

Long Winded with Gabby Windey

Episode Title: Jinkx Monsoon
Date: March 12, 2026
Guest: Jinkx Monsoon – two-time RuPaul’s Drag Race winner, Broadway star, actor, musician, comedian, pop culture icon

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Episode Overview

In this energetic, candid, and deeply insightful episode, Gabby Windey welcomes Jinkx Monsoon for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation. They plunge straight past standard celebrity fare and dive into the personal: queerness, gender identity, addiction, chosen family, mental health, intergenerational change, and pop culture—from drag to Broadway and beyond. The episode’s tone is marked by playful irreverence, vulnerability, belly-laughs, and real-deal wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Power of Chosen Family and Staying Grounded

[01:31–06:25]

• Close Bonds with Fellow Drag Queens: Jinkx discusses the chemistry and working relationship with Monet X Change and Bob the Drag Queen. Gabby notes the “special kind of chemistry” they exude.
• Grounding in Old Friendships: Jinkx emphasizes the value of surrounding herself with friends who knew her before fame.
  • “A lot of the people that I work with are just the same people who have been there from before any kind of success… They're the people who I trust the most because I trusted them before I was anything.” (Jinkx, [04:05])
• Not Getting Lost in Self-Regard: Jinkx thoughtfully sidesteps Gabby’s “you’re so inspiring” praise, redirecting to the idea of “paying it forward” and the importance of community celebration.
  • “If I start getting lost in the thoughts of like it being about me, then I feel like that's when I've kind of gone down my more selfish routes...” (Jinkx, [02:20])

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2. Drag Origins, Family Support, and Creating Persona

[09:06–14:56]

• Discovering Drag at 15:
  • “Yeah. In Portland, Oregon.” (Jinkx, [09:07])
  • Early drag costuming was sourced from thrift shops (Buffalo Exchange, Red Light) and even her grandma’s friends.
• Grandma’s Influence: Jinkx’s grandma not only helped with early costumes but inspired the “old lady” drag persona.
• Building a Stage Persona:
  • “When I've taught drag workshops, I always say start with doing an impression of your mother...” (Jinkx, [10:25])
  • Jinkx initially incorporated personal struggles—growing up with an alcoholic parent—into her character, turning pain into comedic performance and self-rewriting.
• Sobriety and Evolution:
  • “I haven't drank for six years now. Six plus years. Thank you. Really good decision for me.” (Jinkx, [11:20])
  • Transitioned Jinkx from an “alcoholic” persona to a “stoner,” reflecting her real-life shift to being California sober.
  • “I just kind of phased it out. Now she's a stoner like me, you know?” (Jinkx, [12:12])

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3. Addiction, Mental Health & Medication

[14:38–19:11]

• Addiction Stories and Perspective:
  • Jinkx shares about moving from straight-edge to struggling with alcohol, then quitting to preserve positive relationships.
  • “I had drag in my life without alcohol, and I had these friends in my life without alcohol. And I had to tell myself I had positive feelings towards these things before alcohol was in my life.” (Jinkx, [14:56])
• Medication Stigma and Self-Awareness:
  • Open discussion about antidepressants and mood stabilizers:
    • “What if I can find a medication that's better... It made me manic for a little bit.” (Gabby, [15:04])
    • “You know, why question what's working?” (Jinkx quoting her psychiatrist, [15:49])
  • Wellbutrin “nullifies the effects of weed,” which Jinkx finds makes her a “high functioning stoner.” (Jinkx, [18:05])

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4. Intergenerational Trauma, Change, and Acceptance

[19:53–25:33]

• The Impact of Societal Change:
  • They reflect on trauma endured by anyone alive in the past twenty years (“...we've been through some fucking shit.” – Jinkx, [19:53]).
• Navigating Generational Gaps on Gender and Sexuality:
  • Jinkx calls out older generations’ discomfort with topics like being trans, using a pointed analogy: “You're asking someone to live their life uncomfortably so that you can be a little more comfortable.” (Jinkx, [22:36])
  • Gabby shares coming out as a lesbian and family reactions: “I don't expect you to totally... understand, like my experience...but at least, like, you know, just. Yeah. Still treat me like a normal relationship.” (Gabby, [24:13])
• Family Lessons:
  • Jinkx’s grandfather’s reaction: acceptance without full understanding, focusing on loving his grandchild regardless ([24:42]).

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5. Untangling Gender, Intersex Awareness, and Societal Constructs

[27:01–42:13]

• Jinkx’s Mother’s Intersex Story:
  • Her mother discovered she was intersex in her 60s after a medical investigation led to the finding of an underdeveloped testicle ([27:43–28:07]).
  • This revelation transformed her acceptance of Jinkx’s trans identity: “No problems with My pronouns, no problems with my chosen name...the script was flipped for her.” (Jinkx, [29:10])
• Reflections on Gender as a Spectrum:
  • “If there is a natural way to things, the natural way to things is that we lie somewhere on a spectrum.” (Jinkx, [30:03])
• Visibility & Suppression of Intersex Realities:
  • “There are already intersex people in the public eye who are trying to suppress this stuff...if we start pulling that thread, this whole fucking thing falls down.” (Jinkx, [31:30])
• The Dangers of Binary Thinking:
  • Jinkx and Gabby connect the medicalization of “fixing” intersex children to current anti-trans sentiment: “The boogeyman surgery that they used to villainize us is actually being performed in straight communities without autonomy.” (Jinkx, [38:26])
• The Biological Irony:
  • “You want to quote Biology...Are ignoring the answer that's already in front of you.” (Jinkx, [41:52])
  • “If you want to quote the Bible and say God doesn't make mistakes… then intersex people… you’re the one trying to undo God’s work.” (Jinkx, [41:54])

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6. Pop Culture, Judy Garland & Queer Legacy

[43:04–51:25]

• Portraying Judy Garland in ‘End of the Rainbow’:
  • “I am so excited to play Judy Garland.” (Jinkx, [43:11])
  • Judy’s struggles are comparable to Britney Spears', with young female stars repeatedly exploited, manipulated, and denied ownership of their work ([44:11–46:02]).
  • They reflect on cycles of villainizing powerful women: “A woman shows one, like, blip of frustration or anger or something, and now she’s a (bitch) for life.” (Jinkx, [47:17])
• Women Being Taught to Stay Quiet:
  • “You told me to be good. You told me to be quiet, and you’re wrong. It got me nowhere.” (Gabby referencing Florence + The Machine, [49:20])
• Success, Authenticity, and Breaking Barriers:
  • “I just know I don’t care so much about the success. I really just want to like the work that I’m doing.” (Jinkx, [49:44])
  • “People tried to convince me I wouldn’t get to do both in life [drag and theater]...and then it turns out that was another Lie.” (Jinkx, [50:49])

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7. Community, Jealousy, and Inter-Generational Queer Dynamics

[51:25–54:03]

• Envy Among Marginalized Groups:
  • “So the people who get angry at you for being who you are... it's because you wish you were me.” (Jinkx, [52:40])
• Older Queer Resentment:
  • “Older queer people are angry the younger queer people get to be as queer as they are...you should be proud that in your way, somehow you proud. You are part of why these younger, like, yeah, Drag race season five, 15 years ago is part of why there's a drag race season 18.” (Jinkx, [53:15])

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8. Societal Cycles, Progress & Hope

[54:03–56:48]

• Pendulum of Progress:
  • Gabby and Jinkx discuss the cyclical backlash to progressive gains:
    • “Whenever the pendulum swings one way...the reason why the pendulum is so far in the conservative side is because too many people were made uncomfortable...and we're too convinced that the discomfort was our fault.” (Jinkx, [54:26])
  • Frustration at having to “fight about the same thing over and over and over again.” (Jinkx, [55:00])
  • “It feels so late. It's not sustainable where it's at. So, yeah, it's frustrating. And also, every time you watch someone wake up, that's another person who has now come to this side, you know?” (Jinkx, [55:48])

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9. Astrology, Superstitions & Witchy Wisdom

[66:09–79:59]

• Astrology as Relationship Map:
  • They compare signs, reflect on how parents and friends’ signs influence them.
  • “Virgo and Scorpio really are good friends, but they also...if they can be honest with you, they'll be one of the best friends you'll ever have.” (Jinkx, [79:02])
• Superstitions and Ritual:
  • Knocking on wood before shows, carrying a stick “for luck,” and exploring whether these are magical beliefs, OCD, or ADHD.
• Precognition & Family Witchiness:
  • “All the women in my family...could always predict things and...had premonitions and prophetic dreams.” (Jinkx, [67:51])

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10. Sex, Singing, and Unfiltered Humor

[59:04–61:38]

• Sexual Brags (with Jinkx’s Signature Wit):
  • “Statistically speaking, I am vetted. I give good head from so many different people. We see what you’re working with around the world.” (Jinkx, [61:29])
• Singing and Oral Technique:
  • “Because I'm a singer, I know how to open my throat... And circular breathing... I oftentimes feel also that I sing better after giving head.” (Jinkx, [65:08])
• Global Encounters:
  • Cheeky recounting of sexual escapades on tour (“What I'm trying to say is, around the world, I'm known for being a. And I.” (Jinkx, [63:49]))

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If I start getting lost in the thoughts of like it being about me, then I feel like that's when I've kind of gone down my more selfish routes…these days I do something and then I hear from the community like this meant Something to me because. And I'm like, oh, it's not just me. It's everything happening right now.”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([02:20])
• “You can't just lose part of the ecosystem and expect everything to go on. It's like. It's why we're scared of losing the honeybees.”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([34:23])
• “If you want to quote the Bible and say God doesn’t make mistakes… then intersex people… you’re the one trying to undo God’s work.”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([41:54])
• “[Judy Garland’s] is one of the earliest examples of conversations we've been having more recently about the double standards for women in entertainment. …if you know Judy Garland's story and, you know, Britney Spears story, you're like, how did this happen again?”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([44:02])
• “I just know I don't care so much about the success. I really just want to like the work that I'm doing.”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([49:44])
• “Older queer people are angry the younger queer people get to be as queer as they are. ... You shouldn't be angry. You should be—well, you should be happy that they don't [have to hide].”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([53:15])
• “I oftentimes feel also that I sing better after giving head. ... The vocal cords are a muscle like anything else. So you work all that muscle, you're gonna have more stamina.”
  – Jinkx Monsoon ([65:16])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–01:00 – Ads and Gabby introduces Jinkx Monsoon
• 01:31–06:25 – Importance of long-term friendships leading to true self
• 09:06–14:56 – Drag origins, relationship with grandmother, and personal identity
• 14:38–19:11 – Addiction, sobriety, mental health, medication
• 19:53–25:33 – Trauma, generational differences, acceptance, and family
• 27:01–42:13 – Intersex experiences, gender as spectrum, science & faith, societal implications
• 43:11–51:25 – Judy Garland, women in showbiz, cycles of exploitation
• 51:25–54:03 – Jealousy and community in queer worlds
• 54:03–56:48 – Social progress, pendulum swings, exasperation and hope
• 66:09–79:59 – Astrology, witchy practices, superstitions, family dynamics
• 59:04–65:34 – Unfiltered stories of sex and singing prowess

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Final Reflections & Episode Tone

Gabby and Jinkx’s rapport is giddy, irreverent, warm, and nourishing. They bring taboo topics into the open, make the personal political, and flip cliches with wit and honesty. There’s deep appreciation for queer lineage, honesty about healing and self-discovery, and a welcome embrace of difference—peppered with wry, raunchy comedic timing. The episode closes with a celebration of being unapologetically yourself: “We could talk about cereal for hours. We just have big opinions on things. That's why we became drag queens in the first place.” (Jinkx, [85:59])

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See Also

• Jinkx Monsoon: starring in End of the Rainbow (May–June, Soho Theatre, UK)
• Keep up with Gabby Windey on future episodes of Long Winded

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Summary by Podcast Summarizer AI

Transcript

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[Jinkx Monsoon]

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[Gabby]

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[Jinkx Monsoon]

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[Gabby]

Today on Long Winded, we have a very special guest. A two time winner of RuPaul's Drag Race. The only two timer. An award winning Broadway star, an actress, an icon, a comedian, a musician. Things that you and I can only wish for. Queen of the quirky queens. We need representation too. And now, starring in the off West End Broadway play, End of the Rainbow, please welcome Jinkx Monsoon.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Both of them. So it's like us, we get, we get each other kind of like riled up. Monet and I, like, Bob and I have been friends longer, but Monet and I have worked together more. So I don't know, you have like

[Gabby]

a special kind of chemistry.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, Monet and I have something. I mean, I have my own special thing with both of them, but because Monet and I competed together, it's a little more like we just have a shorthand with each other.

[Gabby]

No. That's so fun. I've been doing so much research on you.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Oh my goodness.

[Gabby]

I know I have a phone somewhere, but I'm fine. Like, I did have notes, but fuck

[Jinkx Monsoon]

it, I'm really off the cuff. So we can just be off the cuff together.

[Gabby]

Okay, good. Oh my God. I mean, I'm like, I hate to say, to start off with, you're so inspiring.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Oh, well, I feel like, like enough people inspired me that I just kind of think of it as paying it forward. Because if I start getting lost in the thoughts of like it being about me, then I feel like that's when I've kind of gone down my more selfish routes, you know? But like these days I do something and then I hear from the community like this meant Something to me because. And I'm like, oh, it's not just me. It's everything happening right now. We're at this point where it's never been easier to celebrate one another.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I feel like, yeah. I'm just happy to see the people I want to succeed succeed.

[Gabby]

Totally.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Especially when we're having to be force fed so much BS from so many sources.

[Gabby]

Literally, we need that. And I'm like, can you imagine someone thinking of themselves like, I am so. And inspiring.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I know. Just like brushing your hair. I mean, that's the kind of thinking that leads to people like, well, I mean, and if you don't have the right kind of people to check you on that kind of thing.

[Gabby]

Literally, like, it's like a JLo. It's the Blake Lively. It's like, who is Blake Lively's team?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I just think of the fact that, like, my.

[Gabby]

I get freak outs that we're not recording, but we are recording. I'm a white woman show. I always do that. We got the red lights on. I see three red lights. Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Thank God. My friend Sistant Sky. We've known each other since we were like 16, 17 years old.

[Gabby]

Oh, my God.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And a lot of the people that I work with, they're just the same people who have been there from before any kind of success. Yeah. Yeah. And they're the people who I trust the most because I trusted them before I was anything. And they never stopped lying. They never started lying to me. They never stopped.

[Gabby]

They started lying and they never stopped. And that's why I'm here.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

They never stopped telling the truth. They never started lying to just appease me, especially my ego. And keeping the right friends around makes all the. All the difference.

[Gabby]

Yeah. And they're just the most special. I feel like the relationships are the most genuine and you feel like the best around them. So it's nice, you know, to keep them around and have them, like, come with you.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Exactly. Because, like, sky and I, we used to go to the all ages queer nightclub that I worked at on the weekends as my after school job. And I was doing the same kind of shit that I'm doing now, but now I'm doing it on this big level. But it's so special to have these people who were with me when it was, you know, just a little. A little nightclub in Portland, Oregon. And now I'm doing the same things I've always loved. I just get to do it in a. In a bigger way than we thought possible.

[Gabby]

Like, how was it at the Beginning just as entertaining.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Sky and I. Sky, you're like, it was terrible.

[Gabby]

Thank God you are where you are now. Oh, my God, I love that. And you need supportive friends. Sometimes it's like, you know, you don't know how people feel or if they're gonna be happy for you. But genuinely having people around you like that you've known for so long who

[Jinkx Monsoon]

are happy for you because they know. And it's when you're staying true to

[Gabby]

you because we've always known you. You haven't changed.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's the people that, like, they'd know the second, like, if I was bullshitting them.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And so they can tell when I'm happy. Happy versus, you know, other times in my life when I was, like, trying my hardest to convince everyone I was doing well. The worst.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I can tell the difference in everyone's smiles these days.

[Gabby]

Literally.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

Just like gritting your teeth like, shit.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, go for it.

[Gabby]

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[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

Is that right?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. In Portland, Oregon. Yeah.

[Gabby]

Where did you, like, source things?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Oh, thrift shops. Portland's great for thrifting. So I went to Buffalo Exchange. Yes. And Red Light. I don't know if Red Light still exists.

[Gabby]

I know Buffalo Exchange.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. And I got a lot of things from, like, my grandma's friends.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Like, stuff that they didn't need anymore. Like wigs from the 60s from when wigs were in vogue. So it was, like, not glamorous stuff, but I take it, and I'd cut it up or I'd macerate it or whatever and turn it into something that then felt more me. But it was fun because my grandma was involved the whole time. Like, my grandma kind of helped me with my early drag, which is pretty upset. When you look at the pictures, it's like, yeah, an old lady was styling.

[Gabby]

No, but I love. That's like your drag character. Yeah. And it's, like, so different than what. I'm sure that's the first thing you have to think of is, like, what the fuck? Like, am I gonna be? Or, like, who do I want to be? But I feel like it was, like, so natural for you to be an old lad.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, when I. Yes. And when I've taught, like, drag workshops, I always say start with doing an impression of your mother, because that's one, like, female impression.

[Gabby]

Well, I do.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Or like, a female. A female presence in your life or even when you didn't like. I mean, like, a lot of Jinx's characteristics are things I don't like about myself.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But I turned it into something funny.

[Gabby]

I saw it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Or things that I found sad in my life that I could put a comedic. You know, like, I was raised by an alcoholic, and for years my character was an alcoholic, but she was a fun alcoholic. It was kind of me rewriting my experience a little bit.

[Gabby]

No, because you get to. When you're an adult, you're, like, talking to your inner child. You're like, this is gonna be us. We're gonna and have a drinking problem.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I did. I kind of self manifested to that I wasn'. And then, you know what was funny is I. I haven't drank for six years now. Six plus years. Thank you. Really good decision for me.

[Gabby]

I don't drink much either.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, it's just, you know, you get to a point where. Where you're like, what's sustainable and what's actually, like, making me feel good about myself. But we all have our things.

[Gabby]

Yeah, totally. No, I smoke a lot of weed.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I smoke so much weed. Yes. I'm California sober.

[Gabby]

Same.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But I haven't drank for six years. But it's only like the last couple of years that I take. I took that part out of Jinx's character. Like, I kept playing Jinx as a drunk because I was like, well, is Jinx gonna be funny if she's not like a drunk? Like, is my relationship to my substance abuse? Is that part of the Jinx Monsoon Persona? And so I just kind of phased it out. Now she's a stoner like me, you know?

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

No, I feel. I mean, I feel like you have so many profundities. You're self aware and like, I watched the lunch from season five that you had with Ru, and I feel like then you went in the interview and you were like, I didn't realize it, but maybe this is why I play like an older woman in drag. Because, yeah, like, you did my identity.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I kind of skipped over big parts of my childhood. Yes.

[Gabby]

And it's like so crazy how all of this lies in our subconscious, but when you have, like a creative outlet, it comes out and you're like, whoa, Like, I do want to express it and it is helping.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, and since you brought it up, I've thought about this a lot because at that point, that was very confronting for me. And it was kind of me finding it myself.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Like a light bulb.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then it was like my drinking problem kind of came out of the resentment towards my circumstances. I kind of started to think, well, now it's my turn to be a little selfish and a little irresponsible and a little bratty. And, you know, people got it. And we all were in our twenties being that way too.

[Gabby]

And that's when the trauma hits. I feel like when you get kind of far enough away from it, you're like, oh, whoa. Like, I did have a fucked up life. And yeah, it's like, I've been responsible my whole life. I'VE been trying to figure out myself. So, like, I want to fall off the leg. And I totally did, for lack of a better term.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I had good friends who were there with me through all of it. And then basically said, well, it was like this. It was like, you know, we get it. And also we're kind of worn out, so if you want us to stick around, it's got to be one or the other. It took me a while, and they were very patient because they could see the effort. And as long as I kept making the effort, they let me slip and fall a couple times. But then, you know, it's like, all the same people are in my life because I chose them over maintaining my drinking habit. Because it was just really like, I had them. I started drag at 15, like we said.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

So that was like, I was straight edge until after college. So I had drag in my life without alcohol, and I had these friends in my life without alcohol. And I had to tell myself I had positive feelings towards these things before alcohol was in my life. So I know that they exist without it.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You know, Right.

[Gabby]

No, it's such a good way to think about it. I have the same thing, but with antidepressants.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

I love to mix and match, like, try new things. And based on my new personality, off of medication, I'm like, oh, my God, like, what if. What if this goes away? What if I, like, get used to it? Or what if I can find a medication that's better, that's gonna make me better and, like, I won't be this way without, like, on the medication I'm on now. It made me manic for a little bit.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

Loved it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You have someone that you talk to along the way, though, right?

[Gabby]

I have a psychiatrist.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes.

[Gabby]

Yes. Me too. I have a psychiatrist, but, like, a therapist. I don't know about talk therapist.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I have a therapist and a psychiatrist. Right. But I also like the psychiatrist. I tell them everything you just said.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And basically I was told, like, you know, why Question what's working.

[Gabby]

If it's working.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

If it's working, we can question it down the road, but let's let it work for a while longer before we start worrying why or if it could work better. I feel at this place where I'm like. What I like is I still have access to all my emotions, but I can tell the difference between a big crisis and a little crisis where I used to not be able to tell you everything was like, big, the same size crisis. Okay. Everything was end of the World.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it was like a friend could not text me back, and I'm like, they hate me.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You know, or like, I read the wrong comment and I'm like. And then it's like, I believe it because. So I had to completely reframe before I even got on medication. I had to really identify, like, what is it that's causing the problems before I ask someone to help me treat the problems, you know?

[Gabby]

No, that's smart. I just went straight to cheating.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, no, it's not. It's just like, we all. Cause here's the thing is, like, drinking helped me for a time. And Ru even said this to me back in the day. Like, you drank because it did serve a purpose for a time. Yeah. But it wasn't sustainable. Medication does the same thing, but it's actually like, with that in mind, Time.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Right. No, literally, not, like accidentally.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. Right?

[Gabby]

Yeah, like a little better. Not totally slurring.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

But that's how I am, like, with weed, too. It's like I go, you know, up and down. Like, if I'm at home not working, I'm just gonna smoke a lot of weed.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

But I know I'll always come back to it. But it's, like, important, I feel like, not to judge yourself and know that things are gonna, like, ebb and flow.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I smoke. We just constantly. Partially because it doesn't affect me like it used to before. The mood stabilizers. Yes. I think I'm a little bit.

[Gabby]

Wait, what mood stabilizers are you on?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I think that Wellbutrin really, really can nullify the effects of weed.

[Gabby]

But do you like that or do you wish, like.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I kind of like it because it's like this. I'm a very high functioning stoner. And when people are like, you smoke a lot of weed. I'm like, hey, it's. I think you didn't see the alternative. You didn't see the high. I promise you. You prefer the high functioning Stoeder to the high functioning alcoholic.

[Gabby]

Oh, my God. 100%.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

No.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I basically said. I said, I have an addictive personality. It's something I deal with, so I'm always gonna need something to preoccupy that energy with. And I like that the weed doesn't really affect me because I can preoccupy that energy with it. But it's not me dumb.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Maybe it's like 5%, 5% dumber, 100% happier.

[Gabby]

That's the thing. It's like my dopamine is like, so Just, like, buried into the ground that it first hit a weed, I'm like, oh, my God, is this what other people feel like? And then I want to clean, and then I want to enjoy my life.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And. And.

[Gabby]

And, like, it's terrible to think, but I'm like, I'm happier when I'm high, you know?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And we just have so many factors. It's like, I. I used to want to be strong and do it all on my own. And I grew up in a family where it was just all like, we can overcome any hardship. And it wasn't like there was a stigma on medication. It was just kind of like, try to do it yourself first. Right. And then I had members of my family who were able to quit their addictions cold turkey. So I was always reminded that it's possible. Right? Yeah. And so I kind of had this idea that, like, if I'm truly strong, I'll be able to do all this by myself.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Now I'm almost 40, and I'm like, we. Have we collectively. Anyone alive right now who's been alive for the last 20 years, like, we've been through some fucking shit.

[Gabby]

Right? If you just think about, like, almost. Yeah. The existential of it all. If you think about what's going on, it's like, how is anybody not on an antidepressant right now? Like, the one second you let your mind go.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Exactly. And so it's no surprise to me that, like, we're discovering certain congruencies with people who have lived through these things, you know? And especially, like, when you localize it, when you look at American people versus people from other countries who have coped with these tragedies in different ways. It's like, at the end of the day, I'm not interested anymore in why my brain works this way, because I'm like, there's a billion factors. And the more and more people that I meet who are somewhere on the spectrum, I'm like, yeah, because we all survived this world, and now we're surviving the whole. The whole veil being lifted.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

One at a time, so many truths

[Gabby]

are coming out that it's like, yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then you got the people who won't hear the truth. And then you feel crazy for knowing the truth, because then you're like, are they right? You spend that five seconds, and then you're like, no, there's no way. I'm the wrong one here.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

They just won't. They just won't accept it. And then you just feel nuts, literally.

[Gabby]

And you're like, is it my job? Which it's not to, like, somehow communicate to them to where they learn? But it's like, no, people don't want to hear what they don't want to hear.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But, yeah, it's like trying to tell an alcoholic maybe they've had enough to drink. You know, they've got to. They've got to make that decision for themselves. And you can nudge them towards it, but. But it's like, you know, and for some people, I think for. And we're seeing a lot with, like, you know, the older generation, especially parents with their kids, you get to a point where it's like, get with the times or lose this person. Yeah. And that's where we're at.

[Gabby]

Like, what do they call it? Not estranged, but kind of like. Is that what you mean? Like, parents get with the times?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, yes, yes, yes. It's like the parent who's like, well, we didn't have the conversation about trans identities in my time, so. And it's like, you so. And they're like, well, I'm too old. I'm too set in my ways. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it's like when you reverse the perspective when you look at it from the point of view of the person you're saying that to, you're asking someone to live their life uncomfortably so that you can be a little more comfortable. And it's like, what I, as a trans person, am asking is, can't we all be comfortable? I'm not asking for you to be uncomfortable. You're uncomfortable because I'm asking you to consider me in the same way that I consider you. And that's not actually what's uncomfortable about it is you have to reconcile with the fact that you weren't already treating me that way. Like, you have to reconcile with the times.

[Gabby]

There's no, like, guilt.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, the guilt. And if you validate it with, well, it was different in my time, it's like, what are you trying to validate? Yeah, making other people feel bad. Like, I know that it was different in your time, and I'm telling you it was wrong. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now, you know? And that's like. It's kind of like, so with me, it was alcohol. Like, am I gonna lose my friends so that I can keep drinking? It's like, are you gonna lose your kids so that you can hold on to feeling morally right, upright in this moment?

[Gabby]

And it's like, right. I don't. I don't Know, but even like, you know, coming out as a lesbian, it's like, I don't expect you to like, totally, I guess, understand, like my experience, like when they first. My family kind of first saw me with Robbie, they were like, oh, you guys are like really lovey dovey. It's like, yeah, we're lesbians.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, we're two girls. Sorry.

[Gabby]

But it's just the way it goes. But also like, what if it was a. Yeah. You know, but so it's like, yeah, I'm not asking you to fully understand because, you know, maybe seeing two women together for the first time, like, is like, whoa. Especially if it's your daughter. But at least like, you know, just. Yeah. Still treat me like a normal relationship, like a normal person. Like, yeah, you're not gonna get it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. It's like my grandpa said this to me and this is the only time he ever talked to me about my sexuality after I came out, which was. He goes, I don't get. I don't understand it. But I'm not the. Like, what does that matter? Like, I'm not the one who has to live your life. And does it affect our relationship? Does it affect how I see you as my grandkid? You're still the same grandkid to me because I was never going to be involved in your love life to begin with. You know what I mean?

[Gabby]

We're not lucky. There's no exception.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I was really lucky with my family where it was just, you know, even the people who didn't get it.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Realized that it wasn't their place to get it, you know. Right. It wasn't there. Like, what's to get?

[Gabby]

Yeah, no, totally.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Right.

[Gabby]

It's just like. Yeah. Just like, still consider me a person.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

You know, and like, not even try. I don't even know what you could do with your bias. And I guess people. It's like being gay, you have natural interest. Interest and like every kind of sexuality. Of course, educate yourself more and stuff. But it's like, oh, yeah. You don't live a life like that.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

So I don't. Yeah. No to how much capacity. But also I feel like I'm giving way too much grace.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But yeah, it's.

[Gabby]

I know it's kind of the real world also.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it's also. It is kind of the real world. That. And that's the. That's where the discomfort comes from.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Is everyone who has been conditioned to believe that there is a normal way to being.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And anyone who strays away from Normal is abnormal. That gives you this entitled feeling of, why should I change? I'm the normal one. And it's like, okay, you're the normal one, because that's the same story. We've all been painted, but if you just, like, look at it on paper.

[Gabby]

Yeah. And there's different.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Like, what are we doing differently? Yeah. And so we have to break down all this conditioning before we can even get to the point where they realize, oh, it is on me. You know, it is on me to change. Right.

[Gabby]

Literally.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And what I can say is, like, my mom and I have this really good relationship now.

[Gabby]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But we have not always seen eye to eye with. With my queerness or with my trans identity. And I never got it because my mom had so many gay best friends. Right. And I was like, why is it different when it's your kid? And I don't know.

[Gabby]

Right, right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it was just so. But it is, like, everything was, like, just inherently hard for her. And she used the same excuses like, I'm from a different time. I am. Blah, blah, blah. She finds out in her 60s that she's intersex and has never. It never. They never test, so they never knew.

[Gabby]

How'd she find out?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Because they thought she had a cyst or a tumor, and they were doing an ultrasound, and what they thought was a tumor turned out to be her underdeveloped testicle.

[Gabby]

No way. But everything else is, like, looks normal.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Outwardly, there's nothing that would say that she's intersex, but because they had to look for something else, they ended up finding this.

[Gabby]

Is she like. Like, does like any. Like, is she. Does she have, like, a deeper voice? Does she look like she was a

[Jinkx Monsoon]

tomboy as a kid? But there were. There's just, like, no outward signs, so they never tested for it. She had hormone imbalances her whole life. Yeah. And when she was on different types of birth control, it really messed with her. But they just assumed that was something with problems with your lady problems. You know, we don't.

[Gabby]

We don't look for nobody's interested.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And. And to even unpack, that would undo a lot of everything that's being propagated right now. But what I'll tell you is for my mom, it was, like, overnight something she thought was so inherent and so, like, well, this is just a given because I'm one of the normal ones. And then all of a sudden, that rug was pulled out from under her, and all of a sudden, no way. No problems with My pronouns, no problems with my chosen name. And I don't even think she realizes that, like. But the script was flipped for her.

[Gabby]

Yes. And you probably helped her with that. She's like, it's kind of been fun

[Jinkx Monsoon]

that we've been helping each other in this new chapter with our gender journey because she's constantly telling me things like, well, yeah, that's part of being a woman. You know, I'm like, oh my gosh, my mom's just welcoming me to womanhood. But it's, it's, I think so. She went through something that I just happened to go through way earlier in life as a queer person.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And that kind of like when we realized that everything about gender, everything about

[Gabby]

gender was concocted, it gets constructed and people, you tell people that and they're like.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then they try to tell you there's a natural way to things and you go, except there's a whole.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

There's a whole group of people we ignore.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

That says that. That even if there is a natural way to things, the natural way to things is that we lie somewhere on a spectrum.

[Gabby]

Of course it's that.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's not just cut and dry this or that. No.

[Gabby]

Yeah. And realizing that like you're different in a way that, you know, people do see as black and white's gender. It's like your XX or your XY or whatever. Like, I am what I am. But like you said, it's a spectrum. And then realizing in your sixt or at whatever age that you're different, it's like, whoa. Everything I believed, everything I was taught just kind of like blows up.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And there's no way of knowing, there's no way of knowing how many intersex people there are because we don't test for it. And there's so many non visible, non visible variations of intersex. And I was just thinking this morning that my friends, who I know, I

[Gabby]

always am wondering about intersex. I'm looking at people. Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I have friends who have realized that they were intersex. They found out that they were intersex late in life because of hormone issues. Right. They find out that they are undiagnosed intersex. Now I think about the traits that they have and I think about certain people in the public eye and their traits. And I'm like, dad. And I'm like, who do you think

[Gabby]

Intersex in the poke?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

All I know is, all I know

[Gabby]

is I have one in my mind.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I have a feeling that part of why the conversation gets suppressed is that there are already intersex people in the public eye who are trying to suppress this stuff. And they don't even know themselves that they're intersex. But they know if we start pulling that thread, this whole fucking thing falls down.

[Gabby]

Oh, yeah, because they probably have an idea. Not only like, not really like, oh, I'm different being gay from a young age, but even physio, physiologically, they're probably like, maybe something's up, you know, which gives them like a subconscious, like, could this be true? And even like with. With your mom finding out, it's like you. Then. You don't have to like, almost project and take that on because now it's actually yours.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Now you actually know. And then it's like. And then you just know one more thing about yourself.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It doesn't have to change anything, really. But like, for her, it was like all these missing pieces in her life suddenly had an explanation.

[Gabby]

That's crazy.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You know, And I think it's so hard for us to have the conversation about trans identity as a society if we ignore this whole conversation, because I don't know, we don't know how many trans people are undiagnosed intersex. And their transition is actually just getting the right hormones for the way that they were born.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And their body, you know, like, people have hormone deficiencies. It doesn't mean.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Cis people have hormone deficiencies all the time. We talk about men losing their Testosterone in their 40s. Very common place now. And it doesn't mean all of them are intersex, but some of them are. Yes, it does, but some of them are. You know what I mean?

[Gabby]

Men are, like, uncomfortable with this conversation. It's like, it's because you're gay, but. And you're like, you know, but probably on the side, on.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And now we have. And now we have people who are taking testosterone and taking estrogen to help them as they age to maintain. Yeah. Their own masculinity and femininity. And do you know why we know it works? Because of trans people. Because of trans. Because one hand, you know, like, it's like it all is part of the same conversation. And I wish that people knew that. If you tried to suppress the trans conversation, if you try to suppress this, all your makeup tips, all your cosmetic procedures, all the hormone knowledge that we have now.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You want to say goodbye to all. All these things that are benefits, you know?

[Gabby]

Yes. No, you are. Culture. It starts from drag queens. It's like. Yeah. It starts Right here.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You can't just cut and then expect everything to go on the same. It's like. It's why we're scared of losing the honeybees. You can't just lose part of the ecosystem and expect everything to go on. You know what I mean?

[Gabby]

I've never done it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I didn't either. But I'm just thinking it's like you're trying to. But you're trying to. Trying to explain to people, like, part of what you love about current culture that you're trying. When I see Mar a Lago face and I'm like. I'm like, that is a. Like that is a twisted, warped version of ffs, you know? Like, I don't know how else to explain it to you. You're already doing the things you're trying to ban other people from doing.

[Gabby]

Right? Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And once you realize that it's all just hypocrisy, it's really hard to not be angry about it. Right? Right. No.

[Gabby]

This podcast is sponsored by the Real Real. The best place to shop. Authenticated luxury handbag clothing, watches and so much more. Oh, yeah, baby. I'm depressed, so I like to shop. I don't have kids, so I like to shop. They don't have to go to private summer camp. So why don't I get that little 90s vintage Prada purse for a great price and longingly stare at it when I'm feeling down.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Boom.

[Gabby]

There goes the hit of dopamine. I'm not depressed anymore. Not for this second, anyway. Anyways, the RealReal is the best place to shop luxury and the easiest way to sell your luxury pieces. They do it all for you. Photography, copywriting. Who even knows about that? To shipping and pricing. So you can just sit back and get paid. Relax a little, why don't you? The RealReal is the most trusted name in authenticated luxury resale with over 10,000 new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. And now get 25 off of your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com winded. That's therealreal.com winded to get your 25 off. Start shopping [e-mail] winded. And now a word from our sponsors. This is the time. The time when kids benefit from reviewing key concepts and strengthening skills before assessments. And IXL helps reinforce what they're learning right now so they feel ready and capable. It's proven in all 50 states. To improve grades, students who use IXL score higher on campus tests. That sounds nice. Doesn't it? It's trusted. Nationwide, one in four students in the U.S. are learning with IXL. And IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. it's an award winning online learning platform for Pre K through 12th grade with personalized interactive lessons in math, reading, writing and science that adapt to each child's level of and pace. So make an impact on your child's learning and get IXL now and long winded with Gabby Wendy. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com Gabby visit ixl.com Gabby to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. It's like it is. There's this Oprah special from maybe 20 years ago about interex this. Have you seen it? I probably saw this young woman. Yeah. She looks like absolutely just. Yeah. Like a, like a young girl and they go on Oprah and she's talking about like being intersex.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

But it's like maybe that was the first time we've ever even heard of the word.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. And you know, we've had different words throughout time.

[Gabby]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But the biggest thing, and this is the thing that like has to be discussed is the threat, this hypothetical threat of trans people performing gender assignment reassignment, gender affirmation surgery, any kind of surgery on children. It just doesn't happen. There's no history of trans people doing that to kids. However, there is a long history of doctors seeing an intersex child be born and making a decision then and there and asking the parents, what do you want a son or a daughter? Or like, we might have a better chance to make them. And then they, and then they literally, and I'm sorry say the surgery, the boogeyman surgery that they used to villainize us is actually being performed in straight communities without autonomy. Without autonomy.

[Gabby]

Making decisions for a literal person.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's already happening. But it's not us.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And, and the people who have to live with the consequences of it, like, very rarely are they unaffected by it. Because. Because the body remembers that trauma. And even if you're happy in the gender that was chosen for you.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You're still like, why the hell did you mutilate me, though?

[Gabby]

Oh my God. Yeah. No, that's what I was thinking of. It does. It's like, which is not the same, but it's like female genital mutilation. It's like somebody is taking the power to fuck with your genitals. It's really not okay. Their, their babies, like, I mean, we're

[Jinkx Monsoon]

having a conversation about circumcision. Men want to be mad about circum. Talk about the fact that babies are being born and, and, and doctors are saying, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a life decision for this human that's been alive for about 20 seconds.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's, it's insane.

[Gabby]

And what if, I'm sure it happens? It's like, what if you grow up, you don't identify with your gender, you're wondering why maybe you don't even like, know this happened to you.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I'm, and that's the extreme case of exactly what happened to my mom. My mom's happy as a woman.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But she did have, like I, I said, all of these problems trying to take birth control or different hormonal things for women that weren't quite right for her.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Right.

[Gabby]

And even maybe like safety wise, you know, for your body. Who knows how it sounds like.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And we don't know because there's so many variations of intersex. Yeah. And all we know is the ones we've heard the stories about. Right.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But so many variations that don't even. That you can't see with the eye because it's chromosomal.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

So as soon as we start having this conversation publicly, all of this misinformation about trans people just can't hold up anymore.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And all of these ideas of like there being certain genetic factors that make certain things true. It's like actually nature already said. Said.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But you just ignored it.

[Gabby]

Right. You didn't listen to it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And you who want to quote Biology.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Are ignoring the answer that's already in front of you. And you want to quote Bio, who want to quote the Bible and say God doesn't make mistakes. Well, God already made then. Well then intersex people. You're the one trying to undo God's work.

[Gabby]

And then it's not a mistake. You said it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Exactly.

[Gabby]

Because God made it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Exactly. So like for me, I, like there's just, there's just a pragmatic, objective right and wrong.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

In these conversations. And whether you look at it logically, morally or spiritually, the answer is the same.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And so the people who want to uphold the logic, I, I have no time for them. No.

[Gabby]

Yes. And who's it helping? It's like self. Are you that uncomfortable with yourself that

[Jinkx Monsoon]

you have to try to project it onto other people?

[Gabby]

Right. Yeah. And try. Yes. And make everyone the same or everyone normal, or everyone just like you?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Or everyone as insecure as you. Pass on your insecurities.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Well, I'm like, speaking of, are you excited to play Judy Garland?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I am so excited to play Judy Garland. And I gotta say, sky, this was made and we forgot to put it up at the beginning.

[Gabby]

Oh, yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But here we go.

[Gabby]

Oh, my God. See, a lot of this Vogue shoot was insane.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I know. I've got an incredible team.

[Gabby]

Like, ethereal, unreal. I don't. Honestly, I started researching her after I found out about this. I know. Liza Minnelli. Yeah, but. But. And I saw these pictures and I was like, oh, my God. You, like, embodied her right away.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, Judy Garland, I think, is one of the. Like, one of the earliest examples of conversations we've been having more recently about the double standards for women in entertainment.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And if you know Judy Garland's story and, you know, Britney Spears story, you're like, how did this happen again? Oh, wait. Yeah.

[Gabby]

Because RuPaul kind of compared the. He's like, you'll save the Britney Spears for later. But I didn't get the comparison.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, it's kind of like.

[Gabby]

It's like me on Snatch Game, when people get. It goes right over their head.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, it's like they both were women who got discovered at a young age who had a bunch of people telling them what to do constantly.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Pushing them past their limits.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Giving them substances to help them get

[Gabby]

pushed past their limits would give her, like, uppers, like, amphetamines and then benzos to come down.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Cause that's what she knew. Cause that's what they. That's what they did for her. And then, you know, because it was the earliest days of film and television, there were all kinds of practices that wouldn't fly today. Union rules that didn't exist. But when you think of Britney Spears conservatorship, Judy Garland's version was legally, she had no ownership of anything that she had done. They made sure that it was all, like.

[Gabby]

Like, under her parents.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

No, no, no. The producers. It was just like. It was like she got a fraction of what an actress today of her standing would get. Because, like I said, it was like the Wild west back then.

[Gabby]

Right, right. And be pissed and, like, resentful.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And so you can hear interviews of her when she finally, like, they're only taped, they're not filmed. But you can hear her really starting to put the pieces together where she's like, how did I make all of these movies and I have no money to my name today. Like, that just doesn't even make sense. And people are still making money off of movies. Movies I've made 40 years ago.

[Gabby]

Right, right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And they're still making money off of it, but I'm not. How is that legal? You know, it's. It's a story that happened in the 60s, and then you're like, but it happened over and over again for different women because they just find new ways to reframe the same manipulation. So that's why I think even today,

[Gabby]

it's like, you don't want to believe it's true, but it's like women are treated differently. Not even. I mean, we know that, but on a pay scale. And it's. It's almost, you know, it. I don't know if it took her a while to figure out, but now at least we have people that tell us, you know, we're not treated the same and we're not paid the same and to look out for it and that it's a real thing.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

But to have it have. You have to learn it through experience. And you're probably questioning yourself. You're like, is this true? But, yeah, being broke after, like, working for so many years, I mean, yeah, it's.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And. And yes, women are paid differently. And also, literally everything else we've talked about, like, I think we've started having conversations about how women have to do absolutely everything to show up for a red carpet.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And dudes just pick out a suit and, you know, like. And now that's kind of changing. Fashion's changing for men, but it's still like, look at the comparisons. Right.

[Gabby]

And look at the money we spend.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And a man can let his ass show over and over and over again, and people will excuse it for him being boys. Being boys.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

A woman shows one, like, blip of frustration or anger or something, and now she's a for life. Right. You know, now she's difficult for life,

[Gabby]

which everything was, like, so twisted.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Oh, yeah.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Like, they would cut videos and be like, she was terrible to an assistant. And then you'd see the real thing, and it's like, no, this was actually so taken out of context. We just. You want to make a villain out of her, and we want it, too.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And. And we don't even realize that, like, the reason they do. The reason their natural instinct is to make a villain out of her, and the reason our natural instincts is to believe it is because that's just what's been done for forever. And so Chapel is just calling it Out.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Whereas, you know, I entered the industry in small ways 15 years ago and have taken baby steps forward. And what was constantly told to me is, you don't want to seem ungrateful. You don't want to seem. You can't complain about those.

[Gabby]

And that's what's put on women.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And that's.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And that's why Chapel broke the rule.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

She actually complained about it because it's worth complaining about. Right. And then she was villainized for it because she's actually just calling out the thing we've all been asked to be quiet about.

[Gabby]

Right. Yeah. She's sticking up for herself. We're not allowed to do that. We have to, like, stay quiet, be amiable. Do you listen to Florence in the Machine?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes.

[Gabby]

On her new album, Scream?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes. Yes.

[Gabby]

Have you listened to Sympathy Magic? I think that's what it is.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It is, probably.

[Gabby]

But the whole thing is about, like. Because she was raised Catholic, too, so she's not Catholic anymore. But I think a lot of it is, like, reckoning with the religion. And I wish I could remember the lyric or had any idea where my phone is, but basically, the whole thing, it's like, you told me to be good. You told me to be quiet, and you're wrong. It got me nowhere. It still doesn't get you anywhere. Just because it's what is infected.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then you hate yourself, too. It gets you nowhere. And then you realize you sold yourself out, you know? And I just. I. Like I said, I've been working in this industry for, like, 15 years now, and I've had good years, and I've had bad years, and now I just know I don't care so much about the success. I really just want to like the work that I'm doing. Usually if I like the work that I'm doing, the success follows, because people. People can see the difference. They can smell bullshit from a mile away, and they can see when an artist is pouring their whole self into something because they love it. And my theater work I've gotten to do in the last few years, it's like, I still get to be a drag queen. I still do the Jinx and De La Holiday Show. I still am very much a part of the drag world, and I get to do theater. And I was so convinced I wasn't gonna get to do both in life. And people tried to convince me I wouldn't get to do both in life. Yeah.

[Gabby]

There's no time.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I just kind of did. And then it turns out that was another Lie, you know? And we had to make it not true, though. People tell you, well, you can't be queer and be blah, blah, blah. And then just enough people said, well, that's not true, because. Watch me. Literally, it's kind of like, yes.

[Gabby]

No, you're just blowing smoke like this.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And this takes us back to the inspiration thing, is the people who said, fuck that. Watch me. Are the people that told me to do it. And then I get to tell more people to do it. And you're telling more people to do it.

[Gabby]

Yeah. And it's just like, not that deep. Like, you can't do that. It's like, I can. Like, there's enough hours in the day. There's enough opportunity. Like, what do you mean I can't. Like, why can't. Sorry, you can't? I don't know, but it's like, I honestly.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Actually.

[Gabby]

Very plausible.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I honestly think that's a lot of it. I'm sorry that you didn't find a way, you know, when women kind of sell other women out, sometimes I think that woman is so pissed that she found a way to do it without selling out.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then that woman who did sell out is so angry. And I think, like, the rich people who get so mad at queer people, it's like, are you angry that we found a way to be happy without money?

[Gabby]

Money.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's like. And you see men who are angry at gay guys, it's like, are you angry that they get to wear whatever they want because they're like. And they get scared of being called gay.

[Gabby]

Right. And they're gay and you wish you were gay.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. Are you angry because they get to kiss boys and you don't. Right.

[Gabby]

Yeah. But you deeply want to.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. It's like, so the people who get angry at you for being who you are and tell you you can't do that, you can't do that, and then decide that you're this. And it's like, oh, it's because you

[Gabby]

wish you were me.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You wish you. You did it.

[Gabby]

Yes. No, it's always jealousy.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's the same with queer people. Queer people who don't want to celebrate other queer people. It's like, oh, you're angry that they get to be as queer as they're being and they didn't sell that part of themself out for success. I see that a lot. So I used women as an example. But as a queer person, I can say gay. I've seen it a lot where it's like, older queer people are angry. The younger queer people get to be as queer as they are. And it's like, you shouldn't be angry. You should be one.

[Gabby]

You should be happy that they don't the new generation.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And whether you sold out or not, you should be proud that in your way, somehow you proud. You are part of why these younger, like, yeah. Drag race season five, 15 years ago is part of why there's a drag race season 18.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You know, so I'm not resentful of the new cycles.

[Gabby]

I'm actually like, also, because yours is the best season ever.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, it's more so, like, thank God the bricks are still being laid down. You know, like, we're still weaving that tapestry. My fear is when we have to go backwards. So as long as we keep getting queerer and queerer. But you can't. You can't re cork champagne. So. No. True.

[Gabby]

And I think the pendulum is swinging. I mean, I hope. I always say it's like we had a rise of conservatism, and hopefully the pendulum will swing the other way in a way that it's like, no, actually, we know how detrimental this is and how suppressing it is. So I'm going to be more of myself, just kind of, like, inherently, I

[Jinkx Monsoon]

think whenever the pendulum swings one way. I mean, the reason why the pendulum is so far in the conservative side is because too many people were made uncomfortable. Like, we were talking, and we're too convinced that the discomfort was our fault. Right.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, it's just not even a problem.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it's so frustrating because. And this is what's so frustrating for so many people and is you look back in history and it's just. We just fight about the same thing over and over and over again.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And we have to convince everyone the same thing over and over and over again. And so it's like, yeah, of course people are fatigued. And of course people are like, at this point, it's like, I can imagine how frustrating it is to watch white people go now. You know what I mean? And it's like, for me, it's watching straight people go, oh, gender's a construct that we don't have to uphold unless we choose to. Right.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

So I have to imagine for people of color, watching white people go, oh, my God, our country's not fair. Must be very frustrating.

[Gabby]

Right. It's like, wake up.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it's so hard to watch it happen one by one, one. But at least it's happening.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And. And I do believe it feels so late. This, the pendulum. It's not sustainable. Yeah, it's not sustainable where it's at. So, yeah, it's frustrating. And also, every time you watch someone wake up, that's another person who has now come. Come to this side, you know?

[Gabby]

Yeah. No one will take them all. I'll take a tradition. Come on.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Better late than never, you know, I mean, we'll see when this is all over and done with. We'll reflect and see. But for now, we just need you to get with the picture, you know?

[Gabby]

Please. I don't even know how long we've been talking.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

50 minutes.

[Gabby]

Wait, so how have you done research for Judy Garland? I mean, theaters, like, I'm assuming, like your dream. Cause you've been on Broadway. You did O Mary.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. Oh, Mary was just one of the best things I've ever gotten to be a part of. And then I got to do it again. And I'll do it again as many times as it works out.

[Gabby]

I wish I would have seen you. I saw the original with Cool Escola.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, I mean, like, yeah, I had a great time, but you saw what you needed to see. It's a really earnest character, even though it's also larger than life. And I feel the same way about Judy. Like. Like, Judy is this like, larger than life Persona. She had so many affectations because I think because of how long she spent in front of the public eye, I think of people with the most affectations and I'm like, you know, Natasha Leo, you were so.

[Gabby]

No, like, not nobody talks about. But we talk about your Edie, your little Edie Snatch Game, which was iconic with the giblet or pate. And then we talk about Judy Garland. I watched your Natasha Leone. I'm like, holy shit, that was so good. The accent, the way.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

What I love about Natasha, the person is you watch her talk about herself and she will do an impression of herself from 20 years ago where she's like, well, you could do Natasha Leone from the next 90s, which is a little more like this. Or you could just go full blown affectation. And it's like, oh, she's very self aware. And I'm like, I wonder if that's something you start to kind of become this hyper realized version of yourself because you spend so much time having to be self aware of being perceived literally.

[Gabby]

Right. Do you feel like. And I were talking about that.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes.

[Gabby]

It's almost like two more much for me to handle or even think.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Sometimes you hear yourself.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You're like, that's not me. That's the character I've created.

[Gabby]

Yes, right. But you naturally have to like.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But it is you. But it's you with the dial turned up, right?

[Gabby]

Yeah. That's what people come to know.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Like, people know me for my laugh.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And it's like, sometimes I'm like, am I laughing because I'm finding it funny or because I know people want to hear me laugh right now?

[Gabby]

Yeah, no, you have a great laugh. And your. Your mouth, though.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I have a big mouth. Listen, men have never complained. So good.

[Gabby]

No, I'm sure. And when you make all those jokes about sniffing coke off a big dick and you like. Yeah, I had time to take a break and think about I'm turning into my mother.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, you know, that's just me reappropriating a Sarah Silverman joke. I realized it after it. Yeah. Sometimes things get in at such a young age.

[Gabby]

No, of course.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then you watch it and you're like, that reminds me of something. Why does it remind me of something? It's my joke. And then you go like, where did

[Gabby]

I get this from?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I have so many friends where it's like, you know, they say something, and I'm like, where'd you get this? And they're like, I've just always. I've always said it. I've always said it.

[Gabby]

I've always said it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then you see it on Hannah Montana someday randomly, and you're like, have you always said that? Or did you absorb it? And they're like, no, I swear. I swear. And it's like, well, then why did that. So Raven do the same thing, you know, so I'm guilty of it, too. But we all are. I am a size queen, and I am a singer, and the two things have helped each other out.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And there she goes.

[Gabby]

I was never good at straight woman. I have a tiny, tiny mouth.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I'm like, oh, well, after the ffs, after my facial feminization surgery, so essentially, they had to break my jaw and put it back together to make it the more feminine shape. And so for a full year, my jaw was kind of, like, locked, and

[Gabby]

I couldn't open it beyond social life.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And I know. And it was like, I have been proud for some time of my head game, and men have told me. And it's not just like a. You know, like. Like, everyone I give head to says, I give good head. It's.

[Gabby]

This is glowing.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's like this. Men who I've never met have heard from friends, who have heard from friends about me giving. And, like, I've had people hit me up on apps saying, like, my. My friend said, you blew his friend, and he hasn't stopped talking about it for 10 years. So will you blow me? Because I got to see if it's real. And. And so you're like, yeah, I. I like to say. I like to say yes. Statistically speaking, I am vetted. I give good head

[Gabby]

from so many different people. We see what you're working with around the world.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

We're talking Australia. We're talking uk.

[Gabby]

It's like a snake.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You're like, different hemispheres.

[Gabby]

Unhinged.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

South America. They love me in Brazil. UK ammo.

[Gabby]

Like, when are you coming next? What is that?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Sao Paulo? I'll be there this summer. I'm not on the apps anymore, so you gotta. You gotta.

[Gabby]

You gotta chew out.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. Seize the moment. One of my favorite people. We're still very good friends. Today in Lima, Peru, I had this. I have this joke that. It's not really a joke. I. I said say. I just say everything I know in Spanish. So I would say.

[Gabby]

Do you speak Spanish?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

No. And so I would say, sulamente en espanol. Yo soy miamo Yinx. Yo soy una bruja. Yo quiero un pepino gigante. And then. See, it's not really a joke. I'm just saying.

[Gabby]

Yeah, no, but pepino. I didn't know thou was the word. Right? And then, like, so cute, right? And then me gustach and peno.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then after the show, that night, at the after party, I'm on the second floor. Someone on the first floor is going, jinx, jinx, jinx. And I look down, and he screams, pepino gigante. And I was like, yeah, what about it? And he goes. And I'm telling you six times. No, six times. And he was right. And so anyway, like, what I'm saying

[Gabby]

is, I whipped it out right there.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Not there. Yeah.

[Gabby]

It touches the floor.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

No, we.

[Gabby]

We got to the hotel.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

We got to the hotel. We had sex six times before I left Peru. It was one of those things where it was like, we knew we had this much time to have as much sex as we possibly could, and it was like, every couple of hours, it would be like, should we.

[Gabby]

All right. Yes. This is our last chance.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

So. Yes. What I'm trying to say is, around the world, I'm known for being a. And I.

[Gabby]

What a compliment.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I like, I've. I really do. I enjoy this about myself because it's a juxtaposition for the straight Or I

[Gabby]

guess not for the straight people. Whoever sucks dick listening to this podcast. Yes. Would you give any tips or is it just. Just, like, inherent.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, you have to. It's not about. It's not about using the same. It's not about, like, you have a routine that you do and the same tricks you do.

[Gabby]

You have to read the person.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's about. Yes. Customizing the experience. Right. You can't give an uncircumcised penis the same head that you would give a circumcised penis. You have to.

[Gabby]

With your teeth.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I'm remembering you're a lesbian as you're saying that. I'm like, she's not body shaming. She's just having. She's just having a lesbian experience. I'm teasing you. I'm teasing you. No, no, no, no. It's just like, you know, you got to respond to the person. Right. And that's what makes the head game good. It's like not trying to do the same thing. And it's also like, yes. Because I'm a singer, I know how to open my throat.

[Gabby]

That's amazing.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And circular breathing

[Gabby]

create tunes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I oftentimes feel also that I sing better after giving head. Oh.

[Gabby]

Because it's.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Because everything's already. The. The vocal cords are a muscle like anything else. So you work all that muscle, you're gonna have more stamina. No.

[Gabby]

I was gonna ask you how you prepare for shows, and now I know.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, I heard rumor that there was. I don't remember the name, but my friend Varla Jean Merman told me there was an opera singer who used to have men visit her dressing room so she could give them head to completion before the show because she thought that was how she sang so well.

[Gabby]

Yeah. And a superstition after a while.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. And performers of Very superstitious. You develop a routine, then you don't want to do it without it.

[Gabby]

No. What are your superstitions?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, I. I have certain things. I. I like to knock on wood before I go on stage.

[Gabby]

Not to make it worse for you, but I heard you have to knock up on wood.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Oh, really?

[Gabby]

That's what my wife is really superstitious. And she knocks on wood. And I do, too, like, normally, but she's like, you're to.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Supposed.

[Gabby]

Supposed to knock up.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I haven't heard this, but I'm very strict about three times or a multiple of three.

[Gabby]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So do your thing.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I have a piece of wood in my sky. Could you hand me my purse? Just so I Can prove that this is.

[Gabby]

Oh my God.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Sky and my friends.

[Gabby]

Do you ever feel like. Like, is it too scary to try and break it?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

The wood? No. Oh yeah. At this point. At this point it's more like.

[Gabby]

That's not wood, that's a stick.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

It's made out of wood. I know. Someone gifted this to me.

[Gabby]

No, they found it on a hike.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

They called it a. Brought it from the beach. But I. No, at this point it's like, do. Am I superstitious or do I have OCD tendencies or is it my ADHD finding outlets? Who know? Who knows. I just choose the most interesting version, which is I'm a witch and that's what I do.

[Gabby]

Your family reminds me of.

[Commercial/Announcer]

No.

[Gabby]

Now your laugh is going to the side.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Was I? Anyway, it's cuz I'm nervous about direct.

[Gabby]

Wait, your family reminds me of practical magic.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes.

[Gabby]

Oh my God.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

They. My. Well, all the women in my family, whether they practice witchcraft actively or not. Not. They're all the same kind of. They all. I was always jealous of the women in my family because they could always predict things and they could always. They had premonitions and prophetic dreams.

[Gabby]

No. I was gonna ask you if you have those.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I do now. I did once as a kid and my aunt and I had the same dream. And when I started telling her my dream, she started finishing my sentences and I was getting freaked out. And this has been. I was like fairly young and then Now I've been having more and more prophetic dreams. But I think that it's more so because I don't drink. So I can like clearly assess. When I was drinking, I had so many anxiety dreams about being an alcoholic that there was no room for other. Other feelings. Just going crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think thought about quitting drinking for quite some time before I actually did.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

So I'd say to anyone who's like, if you've spent a year considering quitting drinking, just give it a shot and see what happens.

[Gabby]

I did dry Jan like last year or maybe two years ago. Haven't been back. It just felt good.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And then. And here's the thing is like it's been six years for me and I have full three faith that if I decided to drink a glass of champagne that I would probably still decide to continue not to drink because my life is a better life without it. Some people don't drink like that where they can have one drink and they're truly good for me. It's like I used to say the shark smelled Blood, you know, like, everyone back off. Cause she's thinking purely on instinct now. But I do believe that I could make the choice today to have one drink and not keep drinking. I'm just like, why even. It's like I've, I've enjoyed it so much. Why, why, why? You poke the bear, right?

[Gabby]

No, totally. Yeah. And it's like even one drink, I feel. I don't know, it's just like not the same.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I like that I have this like scoreboard. I used to have the sober clock. I accidentally downloaded it. I had a mini crisis. I was like, does this mean I'm not sober anymore now that there's not something actively keeping time? And. And then I called someone. I was like, what day did I quit drinking? I have to remember the day at least so I can keep celebrating the year anniversaries. And so I at least know that. But it did help me really stick to it at first is like, if I have a drink. If I have a drink, then I lose all my points.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Yes.

[Gabby]

That's how it was with like my wife and I did Dry Jan together. And having someone do it, it's like we, you know, started on non alcoholic beers, which kind of helped. And I'm like, are you drinking when you go to work? But she was on the non alcoholic too. And it was just kind of nice doing it together. But I, I would just always rather be high. Like, I feel like drinking just makes me smarter.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Even when I drank, I would always rather be high. And I used to say, we better find me some weed because I'm gonna drink if we don't. Right?

[Gabby]

I gotta. Mama's gotta do something, you know, if

[Jinkx Monsoon]

you know yourself, right? And I hear people say I've been raw dog in life, you know, like when they, when they cut out medication or they cut out everything, right. And I'm like, that's a choice and power to you. But I just, I actually find that I found the right mix of everything, right? And I'm. I'm glad. I'm happy. I'm content. And yeah, until it stops work, working.

[Gabby]

I need a vibe. I need a personality.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You gotta have somewhere to put that energy.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I just told Sky. I was like, maybe I can quit vaping as much as I do if I take up knitting because I just really need something to constantly be doing.

[Gabby]

But knitting would put me to sleep.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

We'll see. I. I gotta find something.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And my switch is like, the switch is a problem because then I'm like, well, could you please Stop talking to me. I'm like, could you please leave me alone? I can't wait.

[Gabby]

No, you're isolated.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Like, clearly I'd rather be playing my video game than dealing with you. So knitting at least feels like I can do it absentmindedly. We'll see. Yeah, yeah.

[Gabby]

No, let me know how it goes. Wait, do you, like, have you had ghosts visit you all the time?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Not since I was a kid. Really? This is my thought. So. When I was a kid, my mom told me I talked about ghosts and seeing ghosts and all kinds of stuff all the time. Yeah.

[Gabby]

I feel like that's how kids are.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. And then I haven't. And I have always had an open mindedness to it. My thought right now is something's blocking it. It's either someone from the other side is protecting me from the dark stuff that could also get through. If I'm susceptible to seeing things, I'd be susceptible to seeing all of it.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And so maybe someone's protecting me from something. I also, sometimes maybe I'm protecting myself from things. And it's like, it's just like I, I think about it just like looking at the comment section, you know, Terrible. Don't do it. You might see good things, you might see bad things, but you're taking the gamble, right?

[Gabby]

Yes. And it takes 10 good things to equal one bad thing. So you better hope people like it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, I don't know. I also think every witch practices different things. And so I have a friend who's really good with plants. I'm really good at cooking. It just always comes naturally to me. And from cooking, I'm able to know, like, other things. Like I like to make. My friend will grow the plants, dry out the plants, then I take the plants and make an oil or a perfume from them. Oh, wow. And so we get to use our talents together. Yes.

[Gabby]

Oh, I feel like I could talk about your witchiness all day. I'm so, I mean, really.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I, I.

[Gabby]

Well, I know you're a vert. Well, I was gonna guess your sign and then you said it on Z way. Yeah, I was gonna guess Pisces.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I was raised by a Pisces.

[Gabby]

Oh, really?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

One of my moms, but it was my grandma. My aunt and my mom. My grandma was a Capricorn, my aunt was a Pisces is a Pisces, and my mom's a Leo. So I feel like I took on a lot of their. Like, I have a Leo moon, so I can, I can be my mom behind closed doors very easily. And when my mom drives me the most nuts, I'm like, oh, fuck, that's me. I can. The next time I do it, I'm like, oh, we're the same.

[Gabby]

Yeah. I feel like it's always like that with. With parents, especially with mom and daughters. It's like, no, I don't want to see you. I'm so. Well, I don't really like my mom, but, like, I'm like, I'm so terrified of becoming her. Sometimes I'll look at them mirror, I'll be like, fuck, I look like her.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I like it these days, right? It all depends on your relationship. And I've even told my mom it's. It's been more fun these days, especially in my transition journey. It's been a little more fun to see the ways I. I am my mom. And then there's also the ways that drive me nuts. Like. Yeah, the anxiety texts. When she sends me an anxiety text, I'm like, oh, this is what my friends were experiencing when I would send. Send them, like, three gigantic texts in a row. And they're like, literally, I just didn't see the text in time. I'm sorry. Right.

[Gabby]

Literally 10 minutes and you lost. You're spiraling.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

You're like, I'm fine now. It's okay. Don't worry. Don't come back.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I wasn't upset about it, but now I am. No.

[Gabby]

Oh, well, thank you so much for coming. You're like, there's such a good combo. You're so smart, so much fun to talk to.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I don't like to think that I'm smart. I'm sagacious.

[Gabby]

No, it's okay.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Sagacious means.

[Gabby]

Wait, I think I know what it means.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, you know sagacious?

[Gabby]

I think so. I just tried to use it the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I only learned it a month ago.

[Gabby]

Yes, I. I only learned. Learned it maybe a week ago. No, I'm getting it confused. Does it mean, like, you're, like, you have, like, a good judge of things and character? No.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, it's. You can assess a problem and figure out a logical way to solve the problem. Okay, so I like. And. And what I was saying before, sagacious is I'm not. I'm not smart or extra smart. I'm just logical. I'm just practical. I'm just gonna look at all the evidence and make the decision that makes the most sense or the decision that makes the most fun. But. But I have to understand all the options First.

[Gabby]

Well. And that's your Virgo.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

That's my Virgo.

[Gabby]

Right. This is giving Virgo.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

What's your sign?

[Gabby]

I'm a Capricorn.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes, Capricorn. My grandma was. My grandma was a Capricorn. And friendly. Lovely to be around. Personable, stubborn. Yeah as all hell.

[Gabby]

What was her birthday?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

January 6th. Oh, yeah. And my brother's the 16th.

[Gabby]

Grandma.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Gabby]

No, she makes up for it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But she did it first. She was born before the end of. They took her birthday. Yeah. Bastards.

[Gabby]

Give it back. Go to jail. No. I have two really good Virgo friends, and I feel like Virgo friends.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But do they get along with each other?

[Gabby]

They haven't spent a lot of time together. They're both really different Virgos, though. I feel like my one friend is a triple Virgo.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Okay. I have one Virgo friend that is like, we are so much alike that I can't help but be her best friend. But otherwise, I'm the only Virgo. It's like, I kind of get irritated by other Virgos because they're trying to. To do my role. I'm like, no, wait, I wanna step back. I'm the one who's going to, like, proofread this, please. Because if you proofread it, I'm still gonna proofread it.

[Gabby]

We're doing all the group projects. I don't trust your ass. I do think I've made two observations. One, all of them have bobs. Not you, but a lot. And two, they're really good. Like, both of my Virgo friends are so loyal. Always checking in on me, always texting me.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

That's Virgo and Scorpio really are good friends, but they also. You have to be Virgo, Scorpio, Aquarius. These are loyal friends. But you have to be okay with them being very direct with you. They're not gonna stick around if they have to sugarcoat things for you, but if they can be honest with you, they'll be one of the best friends you'll ever have.

[Gabby]

Yeah, no, totally. I feel it. Love them.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Capricorns get a lot of shit done. I will say my grandma is the reason why I don't let hypocrisy happen in front of me. She would fight with people until they would give up, because she would just be like, no, I don't care. If that's your policy. Your policy doesn't make any goddamn sense.

[Gabby]

I love it.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Like, I love what she heard.

[Gabby]

She was the Jewish one.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

No, that sounds like my wife. She was a practicing Catholic, but she was also.

[Gabby]

Because didn't you find.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

We don't know a lot about her. Her blood heritage. Because she was adopted.

[Gabby]

Oh, okay. Yeah. No, it's such a good trait to, like, call people out and be like, what. What do you mean, a policy? That's a made up rule.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

That's like. So you're saying my policy is I screw people over. Is that what you're saying to me right now?

[Gabby]

Say it like that and say it to my face.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, yeah. If you. If your policy is that you unfairly screw people over and you can say that that's your policy, if you will tell me that that's what's happening here,

[Gabby]

then I'll respect that.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Then I'll leave. Because then we'll both be in agreement.

[Gabby]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

No.

[Gabby]

Then we're both on this planet. Don't try and gaslight me. That's the fucking thing else.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But what it is, you know, like. And, yeah, it's like I'll. And I just want. I just want us all to start. Feelings are valid. You get to have feelings. We all are entitled to our feelings. But feelings shouldn't dictate decisions because feelings aren't based in logic, they're based in emotion.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

So we got to let our feelings inform our decision making after we've looked at the logic. And you take the logic and you take the feelings, and that's how you. You decipher right from wrong.

[Gabby]

You know, like as a Capricorn, I don't know if I have feelings.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You do. I think you do. My brother's a Capricorn and he has a lot of feelings. You just gotta crack that shell.

[Gabby]

Right?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes, you do.

[Gabby]

Like, maybe I'm a little moody and I do cry.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you probably let your feelings out when you feel safe to do so.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And that's probably your partner.

[Gabby]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And what's her sign?

[Gabby]

She's a Sagittarius. A double sag.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yeah. Yeah. Another stubborn sign.

[Gabby]

Yeah, no, she's.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Do you have standoffs with each other?

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[Gabby]

But we're so playful and like if we do ever kind of like bicker it. I have a five second turnaround so I'll be like, sorry. And now she's learning that. So like talking to her friends and stuff, they're like, she is a different person now that because she is. Oh my God. I don't.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I mean I'm a different person from having an Aquarius best friend. Like years of having an Aquarius best friend has made me a different person.

[Gabby]

Really.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And years of having a Libra best friend has made me a different person.

[Gabby]

Oh really? I like. I don't know, I feel like Libras I can't really understand. Some of them are really good and some of them I feel are kind of superficial.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

You just have to be patient with them because Libras are like Virgos where they need to look at every detail and then make the best decision. But I think they look at every detail and then they really think of every possible outcome. Whereas a Virgo looks at every detail and then just immediately trusts that she knows the right way.

[Gabby]

I like that. I do.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I don't know. For better or for worse.

[Gabby]

That's how with decision making. I don't know if it's a Capricorn thing. I can make a decision like only recently. I feel like, okay, you need to step away from this and maybe think. But like I've never had a problem.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

I think it's the Earth signs.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Where it's like we're rooted in reality

[Gabby]

and they're older signs but I don't really know. Aquarius is.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Aquarius is an air sign. So they're going to think, think logically without emotion. They're gonna live up here.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

But yeah, the detachment from emotion, being able to make decisions based off of what they know is best versus without feeling influencing as much.

[Gabby]

Okay. I feel like I've met are like hard to read and probably because I can't get this. It's like I don't like we live down here.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

We live down here in the area. Air signs live up here.

[Gabby]

Right.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

And water's all over the place. And then I think fire's right here. Yes.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

This guy's a Leo. I looked over at my fire sign.

[Gabby]

I love Leo.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

His heart chooses everything for him. He's got the biggest heart.

[Gabby]

Leos have good hair.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Always.

[Gabby]

Yeah. Always the main. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much. This was so fun.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Thank you so much for having me. I love when a podcast is just, like, you want to sit and talk about what's interesting to you for an hour.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

That's why when you said you don't have your notes that you made, I was like, oh, good. We'll just throw everything we know about each other out and just talk. Right.

[Gabby]

Let's see. We sit in silence for an hour. I'm like, where the fuck is my phone?

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Like, about little drag queens. Drag queens. You can normally guess that.

[Gabby]

Like, such good talkers.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Oh, we could talk about cereal for hours. We just have big opinions on things. That's why we became drag queens in the first place. Too many opinions to just. To just sit and watch.

[Gabby]

Oh, I love it. Well, thank you.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Thank you.

[Gabby]

Thanks for coming. This is.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Have fun with your golden doodle.

[Gabby]

Thank you. And go see your play.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Yes. End of the rainbow. This is May and June right now. A limited. Limited engagement in the UK at the Soho Theater. Wal. Wal. Walthamstow. What did I say earlier? I said, walthing tire.

[Gabby]

I. I'm something British.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

My ex is a Brit, and I still can't remember. Remember. I. I always say, like, North Southington, you know, like, I can't remember anything.

[Gabby]

Like, it all sounds the same, but,

[Jinkx Monsoon]

yeah, you could just Google it.

[Gabby]

Okay. Google it. I'm like, okay, no, I want. I'm not gonna be in the uk, but I want to see it. Well, you know this title.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

These things have a way of coming around again. We'll just see. We have to see how it goes, but okay.

[Gabby]

You're gonna crush. Oh, my God. She's humble.

[Jinkx Monsoon]

Well, thank much. Have a great rest of your day.

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[Gabby]

21 hello, this is Gabby and obviously I just want to thank you for tuning into Long Winded each week. Actually, seriously, you're doing the Lord's work and if you're sick of ads, you can hear new episodes ad free. You just subscribe to Sirius XM podcast plus on Apple podcast podcast or visit siriusxm.com podcast plus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. Okay, thank you for your service.