Strap (on) szn with expert Robby Hoffman

Summary

Long Winded with Gabby Windey Episode: Strap (on) szn with expert Robby Hoffman Release Date: December 26, 2024

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Holiday Cheer and Personal Reflections

The episode opens with a lighthearted banter between the hosts, A and B, as they navigate the overlapping celebrations of Christmas and Hanukkah. Starting at [00:00], they joke about integrating cultural traditions, showcasing their playful chemistry. For instance, at [00:33], B quips, “Claus kind of sounds Jewish. Clausman. Klisman,” highlighting their effortless humor while discussing holiday decorations and gift-giving practices.

As the conversation progresses, the hosts reflect on the pressures of gift exchanges within family settings. A shares personal sentiments at [03:38], stating, “I sometimes feel like Christmas is burdensome, especially when you're surrounded by a bunch of people,” emphasizing a desire for more intimate and meaningful holiday celebrations.

Unpacking the U.S. Healthcare System and the Luigi Mangione Controversy

A significant portion of the episode delves deep into the complexities and failings of the U.S. healthcare system. Beginning around [07:10], the hosts discuss the alleged misconduct of Luigi Mangione, CEO of UnitedHealthcare. B provides a critical analysis at [10:18], asserting, “Insurance companies operating like a cartel with pharmaceutical companies and the government to withhold, deny, depose people's claims,” highlighting systemic issues that prioritize corporate profits over patient care.

At [14:17], the conversation intensifies as they confront the moral implications of a profit-driven healthcare model. B passionately states, “Insurance companies...deny their claims, to charge them the most possible amount for health care that they need,” underscoring the detrimental impact on individuals seeking essential medical services.

The discussion also touches on the inefficacies of customer service within big healthcare corporations. A points out at [17:57], “40% of their customer service calls was AI. And you actually couldn't even get a hold of anyone,” illustrating the frustration faced by consumers trying to navigate their healthcare needs.

Personal Relationship Dynamics and Growth

Transitioning from healthcare woes, the hosts candidly explore their personal relationship dynamics. Starting around [26:44], A and B discuss the challenges of maintaining a healthy relationship amid busy careers and differing personal needs. A shares, “I think our biggest obstacle is going to be our careers,” acknowledging the potential strains that professional commitments can impose on personal bonds.

They delve into conflict resolution and emotional support, with B reflecting at [35:22], “It's a big decision. I mean, I'm not somebody who even has a tattoo. So that's something I would think about,” metaphorically relating decision-making in relationships to personal choices like getting a tattoo.

Listener Q&A: Navigating Sexuality and Relationship Challenges

A substantial segment features listener questions addressing complex issues of sexuality and relationship management. At [36:32], a caller inquires about bisexuality and relationship fidelity. B responds with a blend of humor and pragmatism, advising, “You're giving up to be in a relationship. That's the whole thing,” while also underscoring the importance of personal happiness and mutual understanding.

Another caller at [57:10] seeks guidance on balancing a committed relationship with personal desires to travel and explore. B thoughtfully advises, “If this is something you want to marry, marry him,” advocating for open communication and setting mutual goals to navigate such dilemmas effectively.

Concluding Remarks and Forward Look

As the episode nears its end, A and B reflect on the importance of continuous personal growth and relationship maintenance. B shares their commitment to therapy and proactive relationship management at [61:18], saying, “We did therapy... it's actually really good.” This underscores the episode’s overarching theme of striving for authenticity and resilience both in personal lives and broader societal systems.

The hosts wrap up with affirmations of love and support, highlighting their deep connection and mutual respect. A concludes at [72:33], “We always bring you on purpose because all of us need to be educated. You're so smart,” reinforcing the episode’s blend of personal insight and informative discourse.

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Notable Quotes:

• B at [10:18]: “Insurance companies operating like a cartel with pharmaceutical companies and the government to withhold, deny, depose people's claims.”

• A at [03:38]: “I sometimes feel like Christmas is burdensome, especially when you're surrounded by a bunch of people.”

• B at [35:22]: “It's a big decision. I mean, I'm not somebody who even has a tattoo. So that's something I would think about.”

• B at [36:32]: “You're giving up to be in a relationship. That's the whole thing.”

• B at [61:18]: “We did therapy... it's actually really good.”

This episode of Long Winded with Gabby Windey masterfully balances light-hearted holiday discussions with profound critiques of systemic healthcare issues and intimate explorations of personal relationships. Through engaging dialogue and thoughtful commentary, hosts A and B provide listeners with both entertainment and valuable insights into navigating modern life’s multifaceted challenges.

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Okay, welcome to our Christmas episode. I'm.

[B]

It's time for.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Put on your yarmulke. It's time for hanukkah.

[A]

Here is Mr. How can we make Claus into a Jewish name? You have to do it so I don' Sound racist.

[B]

Claus kind of sounds Jewish. Clausman. Klisman.

[A]

This is me.

[B]

Oh, Mrs. Claus.

[A]

Looking at my Mr. Claus, I wonder if he's going to put anything nice under the tree.

[B]

Put on your yamaka. It's time for Hanukkah. Hanukkah is the same day as Christmas. This year we're having a real Christmas.

[A]

I know. I didn't believe her because she's always saying that. What do you mean I'm always saying? Babe, you are. You know it. Okay.

[B]

Am I gonna get headphones?

[A]

No, I just was checking you. Do you want headphones?

[B]

No.

[A]

Do you like sweater?

[B]

What happened to the eyes on the other.

[A]

They fell off. He's blind.

[B]

He lost nothing. Shout out to the blind community. That's why podcast so good. You can be blind and enjoy the podcast.

[A]

Literally. It's for your ears. Give him a honk.

[B]

Honk, honk.

[A]

Give him a honk, babe. Just kidding. Give him a honk, honk. Okay, well, I am excited for Christmas. I feel like I need to get you one more thing by the time.

[B]

You know what.

[A]

No, but I thought, why are we doing this to each other? Because I thought, why are we getting so much?

[B]

No, I know.

[A]

I feel like we should stop. If you think you have to get me one more thing, and I think I have to get you. I don't think we should.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. Was your thing expensive?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, you can get it.

[B]

Well, I don't think I can get it.

[A]

Oh, right. Because it's like. Yeah, I wonder if Amazon delivers to the country.

[B]

Doesn't. I don't have an address.

[A]

Well. Well, that's it. One thing you guys. Well, a couple things you guys might not know about Rob, is she stretch. She's got a stretch. This is. You can't. Babe, why don't you stretch on camera? Why? She does have to do her stretches. I think it's an anxiety thing. And sometimes she'll plug both her ears and take a big, deep breath. It just helps. Wait, can I do it with you? It helps center you.

[B]

Yeah, when you take a deep breath and you block your eyes and ears, you can focus on it a little more.

[A]

Yeah, good point. And okay, so a couple things you might not know about Robbie is.

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

Loves Christian music.

[B]

I do.

[A]

And she loves Christmas.

[B]

Love Christmas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, everybody knows last year I gave up Hanukkah.

[A]

Well, does everybody know? And what do you mean, give up Hanukkah?

[B]

I bought such nice decorations, love.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That's what you mean. I know mine has no problem staying. I don't know what the deal is. I know. You really did.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

Do you regret it? Because now.

[B]

Because now I get the decorations. We're going to go up, we're going to buy the tree. I like the whole idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Christmas. They just nailed it with Christmas. It's got nothing to do. Like, there's just nothing doing for Hanukkah. And some people lie and they say, well, I feel like it's a gift every day. It's like, not really.

[A]

Right. It's just a candle every day. You're like, okay, this isn't a gift. I sometimes feel like Christmas is burdensome, especially when you're surrounded by a bunch of people. Like, when I was on Denver Bronco Cheer, you had to get, oh, Christma. Present for literally everybody.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

And your family. Right. We like. I feel like I like Christmas now that it's just you. I'm not getting my family anything. They don't know yet. But it's like. Because I don't. I also, like, don't want anything really, from them. Not because I don't love them, but it's like, let's save it. That's not what the Christmas spirit's about.

[B]

No. It's about me and you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hopefully my. So we made a rule that we're doing one big gift and then, like, smaller for stocking or whatever.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I do feel bad because you got me the swims.

[B]

The swimsuit.

[A]

So.

[B]

I did. I did give her a pre gift.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which was part of the gifts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I got her a pre gift.

[A]

Should. We went to Cabo. Yeah. And on the airplane, it was so sweet.

[B]

Well, you were working on the airplane, and the flight was short. I was like, if I don't give it to her on this airplane, I'm gonna explode. Yeah.

[A]

She was so antsy. Normally, you do not give two about what I'm doing on the airplane. Because you're so busy in your own world. It's actually like, I wish we were. When we first started dating, we would play movie at the same time. We would really.

[B]

You were working, babe.

[A]

I know, but you work a lot, too. There's something in our relationship. Yeah. We got comfortable with each other, I.

[B]

Guess, but not on the plane. I wanted to have Connecting, and I wanted to give you my. The bathing suit.

[A]

Yeah. Well, no. Yes. She was acting so weird. I was like, what does she want from me? Like, so bad? I. You know, I'm a busy girl. That's actually something I want to talk about, too, but. But I finally put down my work, and then she gave me a gorgeously wrapped what looked like a paper bag on the outside, but it was tied with a ribbon, and I opened it up. Babe, can you.

[B]

I just got summoned to the jury for what?

[A]

Jury? Babe, can you not, please.

[B]

Babe, I have jury duty. No, you kind of my dream.

[A]

Email it now.

[B]

No, my sister just got a letter for me.

[A]

Okay, well, when is it?

[B]

Well, I'm gonna be on a jury. Maybe I'll be in the new Menendez trial. I'd love.

[A]

Are they having a new trial?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I thought maybe I'll do Luigi Mangione. I'd love that.

[A]

Here we go.

[B]

And you know what? I would release him. No matter what I would say.

[A]

There's no proof, you know, what he's charged. He's charged with, like, you probably know, whatever. First degree murder and, like, the terrorism account or.

[B]

Like. I would, but I would. To get on the jury. Do I be like, I've never heard of United Health or this Luigi, Is that Mario Brothers or.

[A]

Right. Because you don't want any bias.

[B]

You don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't want anyone. I can't imagine any judge selecting me as a part of the jury.

[A]

No, I don't think you.

[B]

I. But I really want to be on any sort of a jury, small or large case. But I don't. I don't see myself getting past.

[A]

No, I don't. I don't think so. One time I was selected for a jury, and it was actually a medical malpractice case. And we were like. How I remember it in my head is we were literally sitting in the jury box, and they were like, does anybody have anything to say or any bias? Now is your last chance. And I was like, I'm trying out to be a Denver Broncos cheerleader. I think this is actively going to get in the way of my preparation. So this is my plea to be let go. And they let me go.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you could have said you were a nurse.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because you could have been, like, as a nurse, I tend to side with. Whatever. Whatever.

[A]

Yeah. Because, you know, I think I. At that point, I did Kind of want to be, but like, not because of Broncos, but because like I did know a lot about malpractice and to actually see someone be sued for it, I was like, I don't know if you see this all the time. Did you listen to Dr. Death, the podcast?

[B]

No.

[A]

He was like, he like faked his way through med school. He was like, he was doing surgeries, like somehow scammed his way through med school through residency. Just had like self printed certificates. Like everything was a lie. He just like let. Well, no, he killed people.

[B]

I know, it's terrible.

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

You gotta separate.

[A]

He's a narcissist. Yeah. There's no art.

[B]

You gotta separate the art from the artist.

[A]

I don't know. What do you think about the. What do you think about Luigi?

[B]

I mean, there's so much to think about. Luigi. I'm happy, you know, a lot of people. Like, I'm obviously on the side of the people. Always have been. I think really the best thing to come out of whatever side you, you, you stand. Luigi. What he did was right, wrong. Whatever it is, a conversation's happening. There's. There's no argument that a conversation to this level that is nonpartisan, that is.

[A]

Not yet really like you people from other countries are like, wow, who would have thunk this? United America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also I think like I saw on Instagram obviously some backlash where I read it in Tick Tock. I think are like more left leaning and everybody's like a new headshot gets posted of Luigi and they're like, smash.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like they, you know. But I think like I've seen some things on Instagram that they're just like, how could you say this? But I feel like it's also just like kind of right wing media. You cannot deny that this CEO has killed many people.

[B]

Right wing. I don't think this, this has been right wing, left wing or I guess.

[A]

Mainstream media on like cnn. Yeah. Not right wing. Because this is something that is united.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. This is of the people. This is for the first time people are, are getting together by virtue of their class, rather the political affiliation. Health care is beyond the scope of politics. I would. Can be seen as a political act of violence. I think the actual greater political act of violence is insurance. Insurance companies operating like a cartel with pharmaceutical companies and the government to withhold, deny, depose people's claims and, and they're using politics in their favor. They have lobbyists and all that. I think this fell more like a, more like a, an Anarchist? Yeah, you know, like a coup. This like more of like an anarchist kiss move than, than, than a political move, which is, I guess, political. I had, I said it better the other day or I had the thought better in my head the other day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bottom line, a lot of people are trying, you know, the media is trying hard not to report people's feelings about this because they have stake. They're the support with corporate greed in America. So there's a slant going on now that, oh, he grew up wealthy and he went to a rich school. I'm happy he grew up wealthy and then still stood up for the people. To me that's like a Moses move. I'm happy we didn't lose another poor guy. How many poor have we already lost? He took it out for the team and the team was greater than him in many ways.

[A]

Like I think that there's kind of a. It almost takes somebody. Well, and he had like bad back pain and stuff, so. And I felt like whatever, maybe he wasn't getting the care. So he had experienced it firsthand. A lot of people haven't experienced it. It's just something that gets taken out of your paycheck every month. Like when I was a nurse, it's like, okay, yeah, you need healthcare or else you're going to be taxed. I didn't actually know. Like, I just thought it's the way it was. Sometimes you don't have enough education to really question it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But now it's like it's whatever. It's like not to like what? Like deduce it to this. But it's like awareness. Like, I had no idea about the CEO of UnitedHealthcare and how much they were denying people's claims and in fact killing people by not treating like their illnesses and stuff. So it's like killing by neglect.

[B]

It's like if you leave a kid in a hot car.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they die, you killed them.

[A]

Well, this is what health insurance is for. Like. Yeah, we have.

[B]

And it's mandatory.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's also something you have to purchase health care insurance in this country and then it doesn't work. So it's like if it's not going to work, I, I'd rather not buy it and take my shot at. At when I need something.

[A]

Paying it anyway, which happens option in other countries. Well, in other countries it's free and all. Are we the only one?

[B]

We're the only wealthy nation that doesn't have.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We're the only first world country.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, is There a way I guess Mark Cub like is there a way to somehow still make money and we have to. Whatever. We're a capitalist country. We have to make money off of everything. But is there a way to still do it ethically? Yeah.

[B]

Well, no, I don't think that, that I, I really.

[A]

Pharmaceuticals maybe not free. I mean.

[B]

Yeah, because I think everyone care can be profit motivated. There's certain things like the roads and bridges. We don't want bridges to be profit motivated because you go over a bridge where they didn't feel like they got the right money and good luck to you passing that fucking bridge. There are certain things that should collectively come out of the money that we collectively raise, which is our taxes. It's not like we don't have the money to do it. Except what that tax dollars. Now how this works and people just are opening up to it is how the health care system works in this country is that all of us raise taxes and give it to the government and the government through subsidies and write offs. And all this stuff subsidizes the health care industry, not the people. It should just insurance companies are basically paid as a middleman between health care and people. And I think when you incorporate profits in that, you're incentivized to keep people sick, to deny their claims, to charge them the most possible amount for health care that they need.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just, it's, it's immoral and it's not necessary. We have the money, we raise. The whole point of raising of, of money through taxes is that we take that money. We, we do social programs with it. Building roads and, and public schools and hospitals and healthcare. We have more than enough money. If people weren't grab bagging it rich companies weren't taking that money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and you know, it's like we're, they're double dipping all the time. We give them money to not help us.

[A]

I feel like Theo Vaughn with Bernie Sanders right now.

[B]

Yeah. Well, anyway, I'm not well spoken. You probably.

[A]

No, you are.

[B]

No. Because you really are.

[A]

No, that's what I first had. That's what I wanted to ask because I knew obviously I knew you well who's not involved but I know you particularly like justice.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I think.

[A]

And you like a case. You like a case. You're always on long crime. But I'm just saying that because, because I don't totally know like I was lost a couple times I could have followed. But also you know when the OVAN had all of those political people on and he just could not keep up. Yeah, but I don't think you should be afraid to ask dumb questions.

[B]

I know, but I actually didn't explain how health care works in the system.

[A]

Well, that's the thing, is that it's not easy to understand, which is the whole point.

[B]

I did have it articulated very well the other day.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So that's what. I just need to think about it. Let me think about it. Okay. Health care here, let's just look it up. Because it doesn't work.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In Canada and in other countries, it works that the. You, you, you, you pay taxes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they just fund all the hospitals and all the medications and you get everything. It comes out of your tax dollars.

[A]

Yeah. So you don't even have co payers.

[B]

Your tax dollars go to pharmaceutical companies.

[A]

They do.

[B]

So let me just look.

[A]

Well, no, that was a question. I didn't know they do because. What's up with all the copay? Nardo smells funny again. And maybe we can recap our Cabo trip a little. When we're switching gears on Reddit. It's like everyone is making up fake alibis for him and photoshopping him into, like, their selfies. Like, all across the world. They're like, actually, he was helping me with my family shop in Germany on December 8, or whatever day it was at between the hours of 6am and 6pm like, wow.

[B]

I had it. Because there are people who are.

[A]

It's okay, babe. Let's talk about. It's okay.

[B]

No, bottom line, all systems.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, a lot of people are mad that Luigi Mangione took justice in his own hands, that he should go through the system.

[A]

Well, that you shouldn't, like, kill somebody. Like, somebody doesn't need to die in order to get point across.

[B]

Yeah. Or that he took justice into his own hands. He should do justice through the system, which, by the way, he's going to have be in court and he will face the judicial system for the crimes that he committed. No question. Which. How many people don't. How many people aren't looked into? How many people die and they're poor and nobody cares to give their perpetrators a trial? So that's another thing. But a lot of people say, oh, he took justice in his own hands. He should do it with the system. When the system excludes you, you have no system. The judicial system excludes most of us. If you are sick and you need health care and your insurance denies you, you don't have a system that works for you anymore. You are out of the system. They have effectively kicked you out of the system. So healthcare system isn't working for you. You're not in the system. We are not a part of the government. The government has lost.

[A]

Like, who do you contact? Are you gonna sit on the phone with customer service? Yeah, it's like there's just like no way.

[B]

No. The government long ago has given up working for the people. It works for companies, lobbyists.

[A]

Well, that's what they said about. Part of the problem with United Health is that like 40 of their customer service calls was AI.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you actually couldn't even get a hold of anyone. So people who are trying to like.

[B]

You'Re out of the system, you're not.

[A]

Included, you're not thought about, you're not getting anywhere.

[B]

Is, is that the government long ago abandoned the people and it started working for companies. Companies hire lobbyists, which are people to convince government officials to give them money instead of people. A company like Amazon goes in and says, we need $10 billion. Trust me. We'll trickle it down. We'll give it to all our employees. We'll actually hire more people. If you give us money, it lets us invest in here, here, here, and we'll hire more jobs.

[A]

Well, how are they still falling, though? It's like they don't. This has been going on for so long. So how are people still united?

[B]

So not only do they get money back from our tax dollars, they also charge us premiums every month.

[A]

Yeah, no, but expensive premiums. By the way, I'm paying like $300 a month, which I'm sure people probably pay more, but it's wild.

[B]

It's insane. This. The system should work as any other civilized country works. And you, you have taxes. It's so simple. Why is it so complicated? American health?

[A]

Because.

[B]

Because it's on purpose.

[A]

No, because it's a business. It's. It's a capitalism.

[B]

Simple. It should be simple. How does it work? You pay taxes, you get health care. The government subsidizes.

[A]

Right. We're just. So we pull our money together. As a nurse, I think this. As healthcare workers. As a nurse, I was also, I think, getting 75, a hundred dollars out of each paycheck to pay. I barely made any money. All my money was going to help nurses. Free health care, but literally free health. And I had, I had to pay a copay every time I went to the doctor. 35. And for like the dermatologist, it was like 50 dol.

[B]

Like when I. We had a uniform.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they made us Buy our uniform. You bought me my uniform.

[A]

I was thinking about that the other day too. I'm like, buying scrubs was so expensive. Actually, as a nurse.

[B]

You had to buy your own scrubs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's abysmal.

[A]

I know. No cereal. They're treated like hell.

[B]

Why do you need scrubs?

[A]

Cuz you're spilled with blood and guts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That you don't want. Like on your own.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, clothes.

[B]

Okay, well, we cut that into something that's manageable. Because I. I don't know, I feel weird. Like we might have to re record that.

[A]

We don't have to re record it.

[B]

I'm just telling you that I feel like I didn't explain it well.

[A]

No, I. I. Basically when I said I'm Theo Vaughn, I meant that I'm the dumb one.

[B]

No, you're not. And I'm.

[A]

No. And I'm like interviewing like a politician.

[B]

Healthcare works like a cartel. The government, the healthcare insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies are in cahoots together. And you are not in that system. You are not a part of that. People. People are the one thing not in that. And they just use people for their profits.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You are not part of it. You're not on the team. They are in cahoots. They operate like a cartel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And healthcare should.

[A]

And they're killing you in more silent ways.

[B]

Yeah. Just because they're wearing suit and ties.

[A]

Right. I think that's why it's so confusing.

[B]

They're institutionalizing violence.

[A]

It's really hard to understand.

[B]

Deny people for services that they purchase.

[A]

Like, how else would UnitedHealthcare have some kind of an investigation?

[B]

They wouldn't exactly. They work with the investigators. They work with the government. So.

[A]

And. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I keep cutting you off, but I. But I'm almost.

[A]

Okay, go.

[B]

I forgot my point.

[A]

Okay, that's okay, because I wanted to do a.

[B]

No, they keep cut. They. They. They. I forget.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

No, but I wanted to say something.

[A]

It's okay, babe. Well, I'm sure.

[B]

One sec. Keep cutting you home. Oh, yeah. Because he's gotta know because you know that Dr.

[A]

Evil.

[B]

Okay, please, Scotty. No, I actually, I can't. I can't speak that.

[A]

I don't know my words.

[B]

I don't know my words. Okay, now these people are wearing suits and ties and they look civilized and they.

[A]

They look like they're there to help.

[B]

You because they're in suits and they literally, you know, they literally institutionalize violence, you know, by passing laws like. Oh, we can deny people life saving treatments. That kind of negligence kills people. But because it's done within the system, which is a violent system, them, it's okay. Then when somebody kills somebody on shoot, we go, oh, that's too far. They killed one person. You know, when, when one. When the person they killed has blood on their hands is liable at least in very large part to a large amount of people being denied life saving care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That person has killed so many people because they didn't pull a trigger. That's not how they killed them. They slowly suffocated them. We don't. We don't take it as viscerally.

[A]

Yeah, no, that was. That's a great way to put it to. Kind of succinctly. I did bring people here today because I offered us to give them relationship advice. Should we segue?

[B]

We have to segue and not to cut all of them.

[A]

No, I'm not gonna cut it, babe.

[B]

No, you're so great. We'll see.

[A]

Okay. Okay. No, it's a great. And it's. It's better. You're so educated on it that I wanted somebody else to talk about it.

[B]

When, you know, when you don't have your words.

[A]

Well, it's okay. This is helping you. So the next time you talk about it, then you'll have this kind of.

[B]

Like laying the groundwork that brings people together on the real issues is important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You think Maggione? I don't care.

[A]

But nobody's gonna listen to it. Nobody's gonna really listen to it, I feel. Because I feel like we're still at the mercy.

[B]

Most of our issues are rich versus poor. And this is the. This is. This is one that's a big one for easy. That's easier for people to grasp because who isn't affected by health care? Yeah, everybody is. And it's not working. Whether you're Republican or Democrat, you've been denied. Yeah, all poor people have been denied.

[A]

Right, right, right. I know it's one thing we can agree on. How do you think our relationship so.

[B]

Right to left is up to down.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Give me some, babe.

[B]

I feel inarticulate today. I don't. She forced me to do this podcast.

[A]

I didn't force. Please. ZBiotics pre alcohol. Their probiotic was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not Dehydration that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. This is a proactive solution that wards off feeling miserable the next day instead of a reactive approach like drinking electrolytes or eating greasy food. I actually have had Zbiotics many times and I honestly swear by them. I can just have a more productive day the day after, like actually getting out of bed and even getting some work done. I kept hearing about pre alcohol and wondered what it was actually like. Now that I've tried it, I get why everyone is talking about it. And with their GMO technology, ZBiotics is continuing to invent probiotics that will help with everyday challenges of modern living. Go to zbiotics.com gabbywindy to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use Gabby Wendy at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zebiotics.com gabbywindy and use the code gabbywindy at checkout for 15% off. Thank you, ZBiotics, for sponsoring this episode and our good times. Hi, lovelies. I'm sex educator Ruby Wrair. And I'm Megan Vartan Hansen, an OnlyFans creator, former Sex worker, and sex positive columnist. In our brand new podcast, the Ins and Outs, we're welcoming you to an unfiltered, playful and inclusive space to talk all about sex in all its glory, nuance, and messiness. I feel like we're the sex education people need. We'll unpick all the big questions, like how do we talk about kinks and fantasies? Does stress kill the vibe? Oh, and does wearing socks actually lead to better orgasms? So come on in, listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts. It's gonna be juicy. How do you think our relationship is? Let's do a check in.

[B]

I mean, I love our relationships.

[A]

Oh. What I was gonna say is I think we're really supportive of each other's careers.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you? I agree. I mean, I'm doing your pod. I'm talking over you on your pod, which I think.

[A]

No, it's okay.

[B]

Worst of my personalities are coming out right now.

[A]

We were fine and now I'm like, no, it's fine. I think I used to take it personally, but now I. It's actually helping me because then I know, like, when to speak up and to not be afraid. And I don't. I don't want to cut into you. I think we talked. We talked a good amount on Luigi and healthcare, and now we can switch. But I know you could talk about it forever, and you have really good points. But. Yeah, no, I think some of it sometimes. Well, you know, I was thinking, people are like, somebody called in and asked, you know, what do we fight about the most? Or what is something that. Yeah. That, like, we kind of frequently fight about. I'm like, I don't know if it's any, like, one thing now, but I do think, well, we're just coming off of a Cabo trip, and I felt so connected. I feel like I really. I really like you. After, I had a good dream, but it's like we spent a good.

[B]

You said you had a good dream, but it ended up being kind of a bad dream. Dream.

[A]

Well, yeah, I was forced to go back on the Bachelor, but she was.

[B]

Gonna go on the Bachelor, but she's dating me. And I'm like.

[A]

But no, I was like, you guys, I can't. Like, even though I could have gone back on tv, they would have given me money. It's like, but I'm in love with Robbie. I can't. And you were there waiting in the.

[B]

Way that predicament actually came up. They were like, we want you to be the Bachelor.

[A]

It just wouldn't work. We would need a different predicament. Like, I just wouldn't do the Bachelor.

[B]

I'd be like, no, babe, no, you wouldn't.

[A]

But, yeah, no. I felt like it was just so nice being together for that, like, extended of a period. And now we're.

[B]

We go.

[A]

I know. We were thrown back into work, and I'm like, oh, my God, I miss it. Like, how do we recreate vacation at home? Like, I loved going to sleep with you every night, and I still do, but I know. I think our biggest obstacle is going to be our careers.

[B]

For what?

[A]

Like, staying close. Like, in a relationship.

[B]

Busy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, could you imagine people have kids, they both have, and then they.

[A]

Go nine to five. That's. It's like, at least we're working at home together. And, like, it's like, I need a lot. I know I'm deeply emotional. I need a deep, deep connection, which maybe is why, like, I can't always.

[B]

Talked over you before. Like, you know, it takes me a second to get.

[A]

I know you had a lot to say.

[B]

No, but. But also. And I felt like I talked, like, like, too long, and then. Then I felt like Cut off sometimes. But then I would cut off you on the cut. Like, I felt like I was way too long winded. But it wasn't working, babe.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, because people just like to hear you talk.

[B]

Not really.

[A]

Yeah, one time my friend, like, text me. She was like, I know this sounds weird, but I could hear Bobby talk about anything. And I'm like, I know, but what about me?

[B]

Peaceful protest has not worked. If peaceful protests work, we would continue to do it. But it really. We've been peacefully protesting. Yeah, it's like Tupac. Tupac said at one point he gave an interview and he was just brilliant. I don't know if he was like 23 giving this interview or whatever, but he said, you know, poor people, in the beginning, they asked nicely for food. Like, hey, can we have some food? No. Okay. Then they ask again, like, oh, do we have food? Then they. They go outside the grocery, we want food. We want food.

[A]

Food.

[B]

Okay, no food. Then they're, like, locked out of a store or they're locked out of a hotel room where they can smell the food and they can see the food and there's tons of it and there's so much extra, and they're bringing the door, hey, can we have some food? We're asking, can we have some food? And then finally they got to break down the door and get the food.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like we've been asking nicely for a long time, and maybe this won't do anything. But nothing does anything, you know? So. Okay. It started a conversation. That's something.

[A]

It is something. It's a big conversation.

[B]

That's something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we'll take scraps. It's all we. We are left with.

[A]

You've been thinking about this since the whole time I tried to segue.

[B]

We just had another school shooting. Nothing's been done. Somebody said it best, too, that if 26 rich white kids didn't end gun violence, I. E. Sandy Hook, when 26 rich white kids were killed in Connecticut, then nothing will. They're not going to care about brown or black kids. They never have. So we just love guns more than we love people, and that's just the end of it. Or we love killing people more than we like saving them.

[A]

Yeah, I know. I don't. I don't believe in the second amendment.

[B]

I don't understand the u. S. Constitution because everything.

[A]

I don't want to talk about the u. S. Constitution.

[B]

So then it's like, is an amendment mean change? And then now we're so like, hesitant to change it, but amendment means change. At some point. It was changed.

[A]

I know. But now they don't want to touch it anymore. There's more guns than there are people. They say, right. So they don't want to. To door and ask for their guns back. We're already too far gone. But that's okay. Let's talk about. Let's.

[B]

Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about sex, baby. Put on your yamaka, it's time for Hanukkah Put on your yamaka, it's time for Hanukkah. So this is Christmas.

[A]

We play Christmas music at the country house when we're going to decorate the cabin, and we can't wa. Go because we haven't gone yet. I feel like we haven't been in the Christmas spirit at all. Robin was like, we'll go there. We'll put on your Mariah Carey, because what other Christmas album is there besides.

[B]

We'Re gonna go get a tree.

[A]

I know, but we have a lot to do, and we don't.

[B]

You're gonna sit. I'm gonna make you tea, and I'll decorate like last year. You have nothing to do.

[A]

I know, but we have. I want to enjoy Christmas. I want to look at the tree multiple times. I really want to feel like it. I feel like a week isn't enough. Maybe next year we should decorate the house for Christmas.

[B]

Okay. In addition, we don't know where we're gonna live. Well, that's our biggest issue, is we still haven't found a place where we're both comfortable. Yeah, that's the biggest issue. People want to know, but it was the same issue last time. What? Well, were you gonna say the biggest issue is we do this a lot to each other.

[A]

She hates the house. She hates it. And it's.

[B]

I don't hate the house. I don't, babe.

[A]

And I'm seeing a different side of her, which I won't go into.

[B]

Go into it.

[A]

No, you said you didn't want me to.

[B]

I don't care.

[A]

Go ahead. Eat it. Well, Robbie's basically refusing to do any kind of a dish as, like, some kind of rebuttal.

[B]

No. She tells me to dishwasher what works. I show her, literally, a coffee cup with what looked worse coming out of dishwasher. She's like, no, you just have to put it on this side.

[A]

No, she didn't. She had a bad pod. I had pods from Trader Joe's because none of the other ones would come in on Time. And I swear to God, I leave. I'll clean up my stuff. I am doing that. I am very tit for tat. So. And then I'll. I'll watch her not clean up her stuff. I'm like, okay, this is clear that it's an act of defiance. We've lived together for seven months. August, September, October, November, December. Five months.

[B]

I love.

[A]

I know. And I'm.

[B]

When you don't get a house together, it's like, I don't. There's nothing that is similar. Like, the dishwasher doesn't work or it has a finicky way of working. I'm like, okay, you just have to.

[A]

Put a better pot in it and rinse your dishes. You're one of those that's like, you don't have to rinse your dishes.

[B]

No, you don't have to rinse your dishes.

[A]

That's crazy, babe.

[B]

That's why the appliances, first of all, they're charging through the roof for this place, and the appliances are 30 years old. And they work.

[A]

They work. Good enough. How come I just don't have a problem with it?

[B]

Filtered water. We don't have any.

[A]

You're complaining about the dishwasher, not cleaning the dishes. Meanwhile, you haven't cleaned a dish in five months.

[B]

I have. You don't. See you. You want to do this. You leave your. Your. Your. Your. Babe, I don't want see you live. Your laundry. Sorry. Your. Your. Your suitcases. If we get back from anywhere. The suitcases in the middle of the floor of the living room for two to three weeks.

[A]

Babe, I was sick, and it was two days.

[B]

I don't want to cut all this. I don't like this episode. No, babe, stop.

[A]

No, it's okay. Because I still love you anyways. No, totally. No. You're always amazing, and honestly, I don't care. Like, I am at the point in the relationship where I feel like every six months or so, I get a real solidifying feeling that, here's the thing. But. No, but it's like, I know I'm.

[B]

Messy, but it's like.

[A]

You're not messy.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's. What. Babe. I know. It's.

[B]

Babe, it's laughing.

[A]

How do I.

[B]

It's an actual land. It's not an. I just like. And we keep having a sense that we're on the hunt, so.

[A]

I know. I understand. I know. I know. I get it. I. I understand. That's why it's like. I bring it up in passing. We kind of laugh about it.

[B]

No, But I will be better with it. But for a while I was doing. The dishwasher wasn't working. It's super frustrating.

[A]

Okay, well, I got better pods and it's annoying, but you do just have to clean it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Okay. But it's okay. I genuinely believe that when we find a new place together.

[B]

It is.

[A]

I'm excited. Yeah, I hope you are.

[B]

I am. I. I have.

[A]

I also like to clean too. So it's like I. Maybe we'll have a spotless house. I'm excited for you to have kind of free range to like, decorate.

[B]

I think I'm getting sick.

[A]

You always think you're getting sick if you have one bout of le. Lethargy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're coming down with something. I know.

[B]

We may have to try and record tomorrow morning.

[A]

It's okay, babe. Let's just get it. It's okay. I think we're good. Okay.

[B]

But if we have to.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

Okay. That makes me feel better.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, let's get to the questions.

[A]

Okay. What's this one? It's so funny that you all put this up because I was literally thinking, like, I wish I could ask Gabby for advice on this, but I am dating a man. And I've always known I was bisexual, but lately I've been wondering if I.

[B]

Might be g way.

[A]

But I've never been with a woman.

[B]

So if you're wondering, it's not normal to send help.

[A]

What do I do?

[B]

You have to be with a woman. It's like, not normal. Straight girls don't wonder this. They buy. You know. They don't wonder this. Yeah, normal girls don't wonder this.

[A]

The last time. I remember the last time I hooked up with a guy. And like, not sex, because I didn't want to. We were just like making out jobs. I don't like him. No, I don't give those either, babe. But I. I told like, straight up. Basically, I'm like, look, I want to date girls and I wish you were a girl. Like, that was. I remember thinking that vividly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though it wasn't terrible. He was a good looking guy, you know, But. But it was like. That's when I knew I was like, okay, I have to do this. And it was just like there, like in your subconscious or your conscious.

[B]

Yeah. So that's it.

[A]

Yeah. So just date girls.

[B]

You're thinking about it. Regular people aren't thinking about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Guys aren't thinking, oh, I want to be with a man. Unless they're gay. Bisex and if you've thought you're bisexual and you've never acted on it, and now you're leaning even more gay. Okay, you've had the male counterpart. Now you dabble into the woman. Well, as far as this relationship, I don't know how long she's dating this guy or what, but.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, if you like him, if you think you. But I think you're wondering about other people to do this.

[B]

If I was him, I would not be happy.

[A]

Babe.

[B]

No.

[A]

We appreciate your phone call.

[B]

Of course we appreciate the phone call, but you have your answer.

[A]

Hi, Gabby. This is not a question. This is me just wanting to say that I am literally so obsessed with your podcast. I started listening after my girlfriend recommended it to me, and I'm so happy that I did. I follow both you and Robbie, and I'm so happy that I do. It's just so nice to see, like, the super masks, super femme representation on, like, a celebrity scale. And my girlfriend and I always talk about how much you guys parallel us and, like, our relationship. We started dating not that far apart, and so we're both just, like, obsessed with both of you and so happy that you have this platform. Oh, I thought that was so sweet.

[B]

It's very sweet. It's extremely sweet.

[A]

And they think we're celebrities.

[B]

We're the it couple. We are the it. Ben, move over. There's a new it couple in town, Portia and Ellen. They live in the UK now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they're out there.

[A]

No competition. They're not in the country.

[B]

Who else do we have?

[A]

We have Timmy and Kylie. I love them. Sue me.

[B]

What dike couples are there that. That are major?

[A]

Renee Rapp and Tower Bird.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And then there's also, by the way.

[A]

Has no idea who they are.

[B]

No. There's also Holland Taylor and Sarah Paulson.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That's a sick one.

[B]

Yeah. And then there's.

[A]

Who else? Oh, Francesca Fergaro. And she just had a baby. Two twins with a trans guy.

[B]

It's pretty much us but club.

[A]

Yeah, We're.

[B]

We're holding up the entire community at this point. I don't know if I'm the right example for this, but thank you for your call. And yeah, like, when some people. I posted, like, our vacation pics, and I'm topless in them because I cut my tits off, so there's nothing wrong with that. But. But some people are like, you know, like, you know, your tops. Like, people with the mask that she mentioned, the mask thing, it's like, oh, like what's the difference? It's like. Yeah, it's like I'm a girl, but something's wrong. Right. Like regular girls don't think about cutting their tits off. Like something has gone awry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's definitely a gender thing too.

[A]

No, I. Hold on. Let me see.

[B]

Like me. I'm so tired.

[A]

I know, baby.

[B]

Gotta plug in the printer and print. Okay.

[A]

Okay. Hey, guys. How are you? I have a question about gender expression on women loving women relationships. And I think that maybe Robbie can guide me through it. I've been feeling quite dysphoric about my chest lately and I think it has to do with the fact that I've been given strap on sex more often now. I've always been a fan of strap on sex. I've always felt like that was my thing and I've been getting good at it. I've been enjoying it. I've been dating women that really enjoy it and want me to do that. And I don' know that if that has to do with the fact that I feel dysphoric or maybe I've been feeling dysphoric my whole life and now that I. I've been taking like this more. I don't know, I don't want to call it manly role in sex mainly, but I feel like I. For once in my life, I feel like my chest part doesn't align with how I feel when I'm strapping. I don't know, it's. It's maybe confusing. I don't know how to explain it, but I wanted to know how Robbie felt about this. If. If the sexual encounters that she had had anything to do with the decision of having the top surgery and how you guys, you know, deal with it. Because I know that you guys like struggle and sex too.

[B]

I got to get better at it. There's Rose there. Yeah, I. I think. I think there's a lot to unpack in your question. And I'll take this one unless you.

[A]

No, I can imagine. I feel what she's. Well, I can't because I'm not dysphoric, but it's like it maybe. Yeah, go ahead. I don't know if seeing like. Yeah, I don't know how anyone else would feel about it, but it's like if you are trying to. Or if you are. Feel like you're playing a more mascroll and your titties are bouncing.

[B]

Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, you nailed it right there.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I'll say that for. Was all the time like for me, I don't know that it had anything to do particular with me. In sexual experiences. Yes. I, I, I, I'm very, you know, I was always more private and shy sexually in terms of, of undressing. So I would typically wear like a T shirt with my strap or something when I had tits. Still, still, sometimes I like to wear a T shirt because I, you know, I'm shy a little bit in that way. But I would say for me it was kind of the day in and day out. Like, I just wanted, I just like even scrolling on my phone, taking a bath, chilling on the couch. Like, I just like didn't like having a chest. I will say that I am somebody who did it probably a little bit later in life, you know, I think it's a big decision. I mean, I'm not somebody who even has a tattoo.

[A]

How old were you?

[B]

I always thought to myself, shelf, I'll get there. But I was like 30, so not maybe late, but I know that people you were later. Yeah, no, 30, but.

[A]

Oh, wow. So you've had it for a long time. Oh, why? Oh, okay.

[B]

I may be somebody who got it, you know, like, because I did it kind of in my 30s. I don't know. I know people are getting it younger, but I'm somebody who doesn't even have a tattoo. So that's something I would think about. I used to think, think like, well, you know, everybody's getting tattoos. This is how I know, like people like, it's trendy. I'm like, well, tattoos everybody got. And I never got them. And they're certainly trendy. Which, which fair. Some people do get them for trend. Not for me. I always, you know, trying to think about me for personal decisions, obviously. So I thought, well, if I ever do want a tattoo, I'll think about it for a year. If I still want the tattoo in a year, then I'll get it. As soon as I heard about top surgery, I wanted it. I'm like, ah. Because by then I'd been wearing compression bras, like sports bras. Maybe one or two.

[A]

Was it hard to breathe?

[B]

That was very hard. Always so tight. It was terrible.

[A]

It's like a waist trainer. I used to, one time a nurse sold me one on one of my nursing contracts. She's like, you want a waist trainer? I was like, sure. So I wore it on my like 12 hour shift, six days a week. It gave me anxiety. I was like, this is too, you can't breathe.

[B]

Take it off. Like taking off my bra felt way better. Than anybody else taking off their bra, I imagine. And then I moved to. There was such a good binder company that worked for a really long time. I think they were called CGB2 or something like that.

[A]

Where they made way more confused with House of cb.

[B]

Right. They made way more comfortable or BCBG in Canada, but they made one way more comfortable compression like binders. So not quite a broad flatter than that, but still comfortable. But still it was. I did for a long time. As soon as I heard about top surgery, I wanted it, but I didn't do it right away. I said to myself, well, if I wanted a tattoo, I'd wait a year to see if I wanted top surgery. Two years. So I took two years. I was still binding. But during that two years, I researched it. I looked at everybody who's had it, problems with it, complications that could happen, good surgeries, bad surgeries, how insurance and health care and that nightmare works. So I had that time to do it it and I gave myself, okay, if you still like, it wasn't egging on me anymore because I said, if you still wanted in two years, you'll get it. Like, it was like not right.

[A]

When you feel like there's a fix and kind of on the horizon.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Your mind, it takes up less headspace because you're like, okay, well I can fix this actually in a little bit. So we'll see if it's something I.

[B]

Can do it the second I want something. Right.

[A]

Because that's impossible.

[B]

It's a big. It's. Yeah. I didn't want it to feel impossible, impulsive. But then at the same time, like, okay, it seems like like even six months since wanting it or 15 months into still on, I was like, wow, you still really want it? Yeah, the two year mark, you know, so there's things like that. So. But for me, the sexual plays into some. I. I feel bad admitting this. I like to top and to strap, but I don't have a great rhythmic sensibility about me. I know people have seen me dance or, you know, my version of dance, but I do want to get better at it. And I do think sexually, yes, my top has helped me. But also it's mostly like one of my favorite things about having top surgery, just putting a T shirt on. Like, I get out of the shower, I put a T shirt on. It's the greatest thing I will say. You know, a lot of people that are like, you know people, because did.

[A]

You ever not wear a bra? Would you ever just let them hang no.

[B]

Yeah, at home. I. I relaxed at home. But a lot of people tell me like, oh, you post your top surgery or whatever, it influences other people to get. Get it. I'm like, guys, that's actually not going to be a deterrent for me because anybody who speaks to me about wanting to have surgery, I'm like, it is way better than I even thought it was.

[A]

And why is that a bad influence? Why are people, like, gonna tell you that you're a bad influence? What if it's a good influence?

[B]

I will outwardly tell they have to.

[A]

Make their own decisions that like to get it.

[B]

Like, if you're thinking about. I'm like, do it. It's way better than I even thought it was. And in the end, for me, it was way better than I thought it was. Like, I was. I also had this thing about regret. Like, let's say I regret it. And the way I worked that around in the two years that I was thinking about this is.

[A]

You could just get implants.

[B]

So no, I was so worried about regret. But I thought if I don't do it, I'll have regret too. Like, if I. If I keep my tits, I know this experience is not working for me. Like, this experience with tits sucks. Let's say I get top surgery and it sucks. Okay, we're back to square one. It sucked both ways. So top surgery at least gave me the option maybe it won't suck. I knew this sucked and I'd been living a long time with it sucking. So top surgery, if it did suck, okay, you know, then we're back to where we were. So the regret piece was like, worked out for me. I do think, you know, if you're young or you're not sure about how you want or whatever, great.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I think like, everything, it's better to make those decisions when you're older.

[B]

I also had almost no nipple sensation before. Like, I wasn't somebody who do like nipple play. Like, if my nipples were touched, it does. It's nor here nor there for me. Like, it's never done anything. So for me, I knew there was a loss of feeling which I didn't end up having so much of because my chest was always. It was average size. I wasn't huge and I wasn't tiny. I was like a B. So. And they've gotten very good at microsurgery and connecting the nerves. So my feeling is okay. But I know for some people who are mask and they want to fuck, they also love their nipples being touched. So it Is a problem for them. They have to look at. There are different kinds of. There's always a trade off preserve. But yeah, you have to think about it. But I wouldn't say that it was just sex. Right.

[A]

It's more like the dysphoria. Like it just made you feel like.

[B]

I would do it, you know?

[A]

But maybe that's the first sign. Well, because the collar that we had, maybe it's like one of. Maybe she's got. I don't know what, like the. Her journey. Her. What a queer journey has been like. But maybe this is like a first time. Then maybe she doesn't know that she feels like it all the time. Or maybe it is just during sex.

[B]

Yeah. And give yourself and. And what you can do during sex is you can wear a T shirt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can, you know, you can feel better if, you know, you can try and get comfortable.

[A]

Or maybe she's afraid. If you're always. If you're afraid of what somebody else thinks, like, because it's like, it's more when she. And she's like strapping, playing the mask role. Then it's like, just ask them. But I wouldn't care either way more.

[B]

Than what they think.

[A]

Like the person you're having sex with.

[B]

No, I think for me you'd feel more sex to me is so mental that if I'm shopping, I don't. And I want to feel like more mask. Like, I get that. I. I wouldn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I do. You just want to feel as much you as you can when you're doing sex. Because it's so intimate. Yeah.

[A]

Seriously. In your yamaka.

[B]

I was gonna say something.

[A]

That's okay, babe. We have more questions.

[B]

Hold on, babe. There was one more to her thing.

[A]

It was like, okay, baby, it'll come back to you. If it comes back to you, let me know.

[B]

Hold on, babe. No, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I don't know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So my question is, Gabby, knowing that you have dated men in the past, most notably in front of the us on tv, how do you guys, you and Robbie, make sure that there's security in your relationship, around you wanting to be in a queer relationship and that.

[A]

This is what you ultimately want, knowing.

[B]

That Robbie is not a CIS male.

[A]

Would love to know kind of how you go about that.

[B]

And if. Assuming you do feel secure, what's led to that?

[A]

We were kind of talking about this the other day with a friend and this girl being like, well, I don't know if I'm Ready to communicate, commit to this lesbian relationship, because I'm still struggling with, like, my bisexuality, but I feel like in a relationship, it's just not. I understand, definitely. And you. And everyone knows I change my mind all the time. I'm in a different part of lesbianism every five seconds. But for me, it's just like we're in a relationship. It's kind of. Which I. I don't want to simplify too much, but it's like, if you're worried about someone stepping out, I don't think it's going to be because of gender. It's going to be because of their personality. But. But I feel like I'm just so in the relationship that, Yeah, I guess I just, like, don't see the gender. And I'm so happy with you that I can't believe I get to live a happy relationship.

[B]

I love it, too. I mean, for me, the way I explain it is like, I think people are very curious about me being insecure about Gabby wanting hot guys or something like this. And for me, I actually feel like, if you're into me, you're kind of like. I feel like I'm such a rare breed. Like, what is even going on with me? How. What is this? Even that if you're into this, there's not much like, I'm into it. I'm into Gabby for many reasons. I understand why the world loves Gabby. I could be into her because she's brilliant or beautiful or funny or. Or sexy or all the things. If you're into me, you really just sting to me, baby.

[A]

You're sexy and brilliant.

[B]

Saying. I'm just saying. It's like, I understand why the world might be into you, but Gabby has some type of mental illness that makes her into me. And it's such a particular flavor and taste that I'm like, actually, I feel fine. Like.

[A]

And I would take it over and over again.

[B]

I feel security. I'm like, she's into me. Like, if you're into me, I'm, like, so secure because I'm like, there's something like that. So I was like, cilantro or something.

[A]

I will say, like, back to her question. Whatever had. How are you dealing with, like, not dating a CIS man? It was something that I dealt with. I'm like, like, am I? But I feel like. I don't know if it was, like, internalized homophobia almost where I'm still. Like, there was a part of me that's like, oh, I still felt the need that I'm not haven't been completed without being with a man. Like, it would still give me my worth, but it's gotten better the longer we've been together. Like, every time I'm around heterosexual couples, like, on our trip in Cabo, I'm like, oh, I actually feel like being with you is a relief. So I never felt like that was right. And I hated chasing it, and I hated feeling the pressure. I'm sorry. I had something stuck in my face, but it was. It didn't happen. Like, I know I'm being whatever l about it, but it didn't happen overnight. I dealt with, like, a lot of it in the beginning, but actually, my. And sometimes I would, like, dream about it. It would be, like, nightmares. So having, like, the good dream where I was like, no, I don't want any of this. I feel like, was actually so refreshing and, like, just made me feel good.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I. I can. And I just let her just deal with that on her own. Like, it had nothing to do with me. Like, I don't know. It's never. We're. While we're in a relationship, we're also on our own journey. So we have a journey together.

[A]

We're on our own, unfortunately. I want to be together. Only one journey. I could wear your skin.

[B]

Yeah. So. Yeah, I don't know. Like. Yeah, I. I guess. I guess it's the. Gabby's earlier point, too. Like, is she worried I'm into girls? Is she worried I'm gonna like other girls?

[A]

I'm not worried you're gonn girls. I'm worried that naively you will get into a situation that will end in disaster.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Well, because sometimes girls DM you or I swear, are interested in you, and you're like, no, babe, it's just this, like. Like, one time you had a DM early on when we started dating, and you're like, who's this girl? She's. She's one of your friends. I'm like, I don't know.

[B]

Her friends were adding me, so I.

[A]

No, but it was like, she was. Was like, she was gorgeous. She had blonde hair. Like, she was clearly just sliding into your DMs, but using Gabby.

[B]

Like, so.

[A]

I don't know, but it's like, you have obviously a lot of girlfriends, too, so I just. Just so you know, I always have one eye open.

[B]

Well, by the way, just so.

[A]

Because you're kind of naive about it.

[B]

Because, so you all know, Gabby is in my phone 24. Like, if I'm writing literally anyone. My sister. Any DMS. I do get DMS, and I get DMS about comedy, too. She's right there.

[A]

Oh, it's so crazy. I do that to my friends, too, though. Does it bother you?

[B]

No. But also, you're like, yeah. So she's like, don't message that girl back. I'm okay. Goodbye. Like, I just don't care what's going on at all.

[A]

No. Yeah.

[B]

And people know not to with me. When somebody hit on me and I wrote back to them, I said, I'm in a very happy relationship.

[A]

Somebody hit on you?

[B]

Like, somebody early on wrote me a message, like, if it doesn't work out with Gabby or whatever I said. So rude.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[B]

You're not rooting for me, right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I took it. Like, it's not giving what you think it's giving.

[A]

No. And that's like. I feel like that's, like, straight behavior. I'm always surprised to see this kind of behavior in lesbianism, but it's like, it's. It just happens, me saying lesbianism like it's an illness.

[B]

It is an illness. There something very wrong.

[A]

Okay, let's do. Let's see. Hi, Gabby and R. So I have been with my boyfriend now for a.

[B]

Year and a half. We have a baby who.

[A]

Who is crying right now. We got pregnant after four months together. We're so happy. We love each other. We love our baby. Everything's great. Except for the fact that I had my bi awakening while we were together.

[B]

It's not going great. You're keeping up appearances thick.

[A]

Monogamous.

[B]

So what do I do?

[A]

Flick my bean to scissoring porn now for the rest of my life? What's your advice? I love the expression flick your bean.

[B]

By the way, because that's my favorite. Gabby flicks my bean. All I like.

[A]

I think. I don't know. I. I guess I just don't know because I feel like my awakening came at such a good time. Literally on the couch when I was like, I wish this was a girl, and I was not in a relationship and I was able. And then I found you right away, so it feels like kismet.

[B]

You. I found you lying on the floor. You found me. You found me, so it's gonna be me.

[A]

So I don't know. I don't. I don't want to make anything, but it's like, you guys, you're always giving up something, whether you're giving up the. Or giving up the dick to be in a relationship.

[B]

You're giving up to be in a relationship. That's the whole thing. It's like, it's kind of so weird because I'm like, you're so happy, but it's like.

[A]

But you feel like something's missing. So maybe, yeah, you're not that happy.

[B]

Maybe you're not that happy. But also it's the kind of thing that, like, I guess I've spoke to this and somewhat like, I. I think I'm okay dealing with temptation. I grew up kosher. All I wanted was a nugget. All I wanted was a McDonald's nugget. If I get a nugget, I was happy. All the non Jewish kids down the block, they'd go down, they'd have Happy Meals. I thought, I want to be happy. Why can't I have Happy Happy Meal? Okay? I would smell, I would get a waft of their nuggets dipping into honey, whatever it was doing, and I would want that. And then I would go inside my house. My mother would have stew or meatloaf or God knows what. And even though it wasn't my desired meal, when I was eight years old, I was full and satisfied and the temptation left me. I didn't think about the nugget for the rest of the night or whatever until maybe a few days later. I. You know, so I'm very good with not having everything I want, but having most of what I want.

[A]

Do you have everything you want now?

[B]

Yeah, that. But I think that what you give up when you're in a relationship is like, some people, you know, they struggle. They. They want to have. They want to have their cake like they want to. They want to be in a relationship and they want to have a hookup. You know, a lot of gay men have this arrangement where they've worked it out. And I think it's a man's, you know, I think I agree it's for the faint of heart. This is for gay men. Be in a relationship and have your cake and eaten too. I think lesbians are monogamous to the day you die. We're penguins. We're together. Nobody's going nowhere. You're not looking nowher. Okay? And then straight people get to cheat. That's what you have, okay. Gay people get to have the open relationship, whatever. So. But in every relationship, yeah, you're giving up encounters with other people. That's what a committed relation. That's the hard part, I guess, of the commitment. Beyond all the stuff about getting to know somebody and really factoring somebody into Your life and becoming one. But the, the kind of. What are the factors? The external factors are your, your, your gift, giving up, other encounters. So I think it goes back to Gabby's previous answer to the prior question about, like, yeah, you just want to be like, like girl or guy if you want somebody else. Like, right. You have to like, maybe.

[A]

Yeah, maybe in like the forefront of like the very front part of your lobe, it's like, oh, my God, my life is so much more complicated because I like both genders. So now it's like I can't choose. But also it's just like, if you're monogamous, you can only be with one person. And if you don't want to be with that person, date around.

[B]

See, but here's the whole thing with dating. Seeing, it's like, we think the grass is greener. Like, I think there's something very worthwhile in a long term.

[A]

I agree. I think for me, it keeps getting better.

[B]

Insecurity and which people said, like, they.

[A]

Kind of like gaslit me. They're like, oh my God, you're self sabotaging. Because I couldn't like, be in a relationship with someone for maybe longer than six months. And on paper they were fine, but I'm like, I just can't do it. And then finally I found someone who I really want to be in a relationship with. And like, we go to therapy, we actively work. Work keeps getting better.

[B]

No, but we wanted to keep getting better. You know, we did there. We both watched couples therapy when we first started dating, and we kind of floated the idea, like, literally weeks into dating, like, you know, three months. Do therapy? Yeah. How many months?

[A]

Three months.

[B]

Yeah. We were like, they're supposed. It was saying you should do this is why you should do therapy when you're good. And obviously we were madly in love, but we were both in a financial bracket where we could afford to do therapy. So I'm not saying it's like, I understand that, but it's like it actually makes us like, we got to have one of our first fight, like with a therapist, which just felt like really good. But some people don't think that that's a worthwhile endeavor. They want, you know, they want the immediacy, the short term, whatever it is. And I can't wait to see what does 10 years of love look like. What is 15 years? Not saying it's going to be easy, but I think it's a worthwhile pursuit. I think there's the case for you. If you do leave this man and your family. Family that you'll end up, you know, getting your bean flicked off a couple times and being like, oh my God. But I gave up this deeper, harder thing. Something that's hard oftentimes can be very worthwhile. And it can be a very hard life also to just go from being flicked to being flicked to being flicked. And with the baby life too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's definitely, I think when we're happy or stable and content, there's always an impetus to look for something wrong or. And to focus on that thing.

[A]

But also always here on Long Winded. Do whatever the you want to do.

[B]

But it's okay to have a longing and let that be a longing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If it gets too serious, talk about.

[A]

It, then you'll know. And I'm a firm believer in like, you'll know when you're. When you know. It's like people who don't want to break up with their partner, it's like, okay, don't do it right now, but you'll know when you need to. It always comes.

[B]

It's like, it's like that couple that we were speaking about that you, you alluded to before, it's like, you know, this person was like somewhat cheating. You know, they were like they were realizing, you know, they were with a, with a woman and realizing that they might be bisexual and want a guy and whatever. And they were like not cheating but emotionally cheating with this guy and spent some time IRL with this guy and whatever. And it's like it's much harder to keep the peace in the relationship. Some people, they. Whether we grew up in chaos, sometimes we don't realize that it's actually easier to live in chaos if you grow up in chaos. That the drugs drama. You feed drama into your life.

[A]

Which we get drama every day living together. Yeah, but it's fun drama.

[B]

You might have a partner and you might be always wanting. Some people are always chasing the drama subconsciously. They're like, why is everybody mad at me? Why am I always having fights? Why this? But they might have a security in keeping the trauma. But there's actually something a lot more dramatic and that is keeping the peace. Keeping. Keeping the relationship. Relationship is its own drama. And it's not the chaotic drama. It's the, it's the, it's the hard earned drama. But it's as dramatic in a pot in a better way. Keeping the peace is as dramatic, but it's the harder thing to do. It's the harder drama to maintain.

[A]

And you just have to do the thing. I think you just have to know that about yourself, too. Because I feel. I felt like that in the beginning of our relationship. And I'm like, no, I'm not one of those people who just, like, feel safe in quiet and comfort and contentment. But then, sure enough. So it's. It's actually, like, possible to change. And I mean, today I cried in bed because I was so proud of you. And I'm like, having those feelings were worth, like, working for and everything that we've been through, because normally I don't give a.

[B]

No, we give so much of a. About each other. Like, we'll do, like, if we hear there's something good to do for your relationship. We did on my birthday, she did some type of reading because we were like, oh, we're liking the therapy. Then she did some reading, which, remember on my birthday, some.

[A]

You didn't like that?

[B]

No, I didn't like this lady, because my birthday.

[A]

Okay, let's do one more maybe.

[B]

Let's just try always into maintaining the drama of our relationship, which is really.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Great drama.

[A]

Hi, Gabby. I'm really sick right now, so I sound crazy, but I just wanted to say that I love you, and I think that you're the best thing to come out of the Bachelor franchise. So I've been dating my boyfriend for about two years now, and he's seriously the kindest man. And I have a lot of trauma with men, and so he's just so gentle and, like, kind with me. And I don't know, he's just everything I've ever wanted in a man, but sometimes he can be a little bit. Like, he hasn't really explored the world and hasn't really gone outside a lot. Like, he comes from a small town, and he's not had a lot of exposure to things, and I just wanted to know if there's anything I can do to, like, change that, because I don't ever. I want to marry this man. Like, but. And I want to travel with him, but it feels like his job, and with everything he's. He's doing right now, it's like. It's not really, like, in. In the future, the soonish future. And I don't know, how do I navigate this? Because I love him so much, but I'm someone who wants to travel the world, and he talks about how he wants you to, but I've traveled to Hawaii with him before. Before. And he's just, like, scared of the ocean and all this stuff, and it's just Yeah. I don't know what to do. Thank you so much.

[B]

I mean, how important is that to you? You know, I. I don't know if it's deal break. You have to decide what's deal breaker or what's not. You know, in any relationship, like, like Gabby was saying earlier, you. It's always a compromise. Anything that you do has. Has a compromise to some extent. Ideally, the positive outweighs by four far. You know, if this is like the highest thing on your list that you need to travel the world or something, you know, I probably lean more to your boyfriend. I'm not somebody. We just went to Mexico and I loved it, but I'm not somebody who has that, like, travel bug. But.

[A]

No, but you naturally travel for work. We travel a lot. I'm kind of on the opposite side. You sound young. And you will find another boyfriend who's nice if. If this is something she wants to marry, marry him. Okay, well, right now. But I don't know if this is important. I mean, my thing that I'm kind of getting, like, taking away from it is like she's afraid to live a boring life. And I can really relate to that. And I feel like how. However much I will and complain, I'll come here after every trip and tell you how terrible it is. I do like to see it, and I feel like getting out of. And I know it's not feasible for everybody, but they'll be like, oh, no. Kind of, like stuck, like, going through it. They, like, know everybody in the town. I'm like, I know it's expensive and it can be, but try and move to a bigger city. Even, like, you know, sometimes I. I wish I could have spent more time in New York when I was younger. So I feel like it teaches you so much and it's just not boring. There's so much life there. But. Yeah, no, but there's a lot of nice dudes in the world.

[B]

Okay, well, but. But if you do love this man, I would say this is the first thing. And this is the first thing for a lot of the calls we got today. Did you tell your boyfriend all. Everything you told us?

[A]

You got to talk to him about it? Yes.

[B]

Did you tell him him everything? Tell him all that? Tell him. This is something that's been weighing on me. This is something that's really important to me. Can we get a plan going that we can have a trip maybe next year? Can we start putting a little bit of money away every month that we can try and make a trip happen? Next year and travel with him if you're willing. If, if, if, if you're willing to be patient and you want to marry and he's not averse to going somewhere, then maybe really talk to him about it. This actually is a bigger deal than I realized it was to, to me. And I would like, like to explore. I understand you're not well versed or whatever, and I'm happy to be your guide to show you more about the world or whatever. You know what I mean? You can take the reins on that and be like, will you come with me? Will you make efforts to.

[A]

If you're working life experience, like, I get it, you kind of like, you want that. I feel like you have a ton just like living in your childhood and stuff. And I love hearing about it. I love being around somebody with life experience.

[B]

Exactly. But I think it's very attractive. You don't have, you know, if you're young, maybe you don't have so much life experience and it'll come with experience.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Should we do one more? Hi, Gabby. I kind of have a situation where my on again, off again ex started hooking up with this girl who's a friend of his that hates my guts. So I decided that I would get a little ribbon and start trying to hook up with her brother.

[B]

We love you.

[A]

Little did I know I was gonna be hooking up my on again, off again ex as well. And it feels like it's starting to get messy and I feel like I should not get revenge on people and just focus on inner peace, but I don't know what to do. It doesn't sound like you focus on the brother. Should I leave everybody alone? Should I have a, a real conversation with my ex? I don't know.

[B]

Please. On and off, off again. X. This is nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. He's not like, like, no.

[A]

Let it crash and burn. You need something to talk about.

[B]

Yeah. And you don't need. If you're, if you're, if you're single, have fun. You're able to do whatever you want to do and that's that. Be safe and yeah, whatever. Like you're not marrying the on and off off again ex like that. It's over. If he's left you once, it's, it's done. If you left them on, it's done. Okay, So I, I, I don't know. I don't really see who, who hurts here.

[A]

Yeah, let's see what happens in the end.

[B]

Who's going to be hurt? The friend you like.

[A]

We don't care about men's feelings. Yeah, no, it's fine. I think you should just keep doing uc. Call back with. With the outcome, please. I meant I'm investing.

[B]

Call us back. We're following closely.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. On that note, Okay.

[B]

I am Robbie Hoffman. Follow me on everything.

[A]

My podcast.

[B]

My podcast Too Far will hopefully be coming back in the new year. We have a couple episodes banked. There's some logistical issues we've got to work out. There's some politics behind the scenes, but. I am Robbie Hoffman on Instagram. And this is my. My girlfriend, Gabby Windy, who I love very much. And I was very nervous when I first started talking on this podcast. It takes me a second, babe.

[A]

We always. You're our favorite guest. Everybody loves you.

[B]

Not when I'm. Not when I'm talking.

[A]

No, but nobod, as always, we bring you on purpose because all of us need to be educated. You're so smart.

[B]

I know, but I'm not like. But I'm not here to mansplain and educate you. You're not talking at you talk at anyone.

[A]

It's fine. On a podcast. That's why I love you and everybody loves you. I love you.

[B]

Chris.

[A]

Let's sit over here so Mo can take. Wait. So it can take a still of us and then put it our YouTube.

[B]

Put on your Yamaka. It's time for Hanukkah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

[A]

Individuals on the show may have a.

[B]

Direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[A]

Or services referred to in this episode.