6 | Angel of Death

Summary

Podcast Summary: Lords of Death – Episode 6: "Angel of Death"

Introduction

In Episode 6 of Lords of Death, titled "Angel of Death," host Thrasher Banks delves deeper into the mysterious and brutal murder cases intertwined with his own family's history. Released on December 16, 2024, this episode navigates the murky waters of past crimes, familial loyalty, and the quest for truth against the ominous backdrop of Dayton, Ohio in the mid-1980s to mid-1990s.

The Story Unfolds [02:57 – 19:00]

Carrie, Thrasher's mother, introduces the catalyst for the investigation: a memory box that contains documents and memorabilia related to the 1995 murder of Cindy Cozad. This discovery prompts questions about Mick's (James) involvement in the murder and his potential connections to other unsolved cases.

• Family Dynamics and Past Crimes

  Mick, whose full name is James, had a troubled past marked by violence. Geraldine, Mick’s mother, recounts his history:

  "He was very open and honest about his past and the fact that he had been in prison before and why he was in prison. He told me that in the mid-80s, he had served some time in prison for killing his uncle." ([04:36])

  Mick’s confession reveals that the killing of his abusive uncle Jack was a collective decision made by Mick and his cousins to end years of torment:

  "We were scared to death of him. Everybody was. I never had any clue he was like that." ([09:04])

• The Murder of Uncle Jack

  The episode details the harrowing experiences Mick and his cousins endured under Jack’s brutality. Mick describes witnessing Jack’s violent outbursts:

  "He was a sick bastard. The guy was just pervert in the fucking head." ([10:18])

  The situation escalates to a breaking point on a Halloween night when Mick and his cousins decide to take action to protect Maddie, Mick’s sister, from further abuse. The plan culminates in the shooting of Jack under dire circumstances.

• Aftermath and Legal Consequences

  Following the murder, Mick confesses to the authorities, leading to his imprisonment for involuntary manslaughter. Rick Faulkner, Mick’s attorney, provides insight into the case:

  "The way he was treating this little girl... was about what he was doing with the daughter and how mean he was to the kids." ([22:06])

  Despite Mick’s detailed confession, the absence of a body complicates the legal proceedings. Rick elaborates on the challenges faced by law enforcement:

  "They found some bones. Turned out the bones we found were bovine in nature. We never did find a body." ([25:16])

Connecting to the 1995 Murder [19:00 – 31:10]

As Carrie's investigation progresses, connections between Mick’s past and the 1995 murder of Cindy Cozad surface. The episode explores whether Mick's actions were driven by protective instincts or coercion.

• Legal Discrepancies and Conflicting Accounts

  Mick’s account differs from Rick Faulkner’s recollection, suggesting possible manipulation:

  "They shot him, didn't kill him, let him bleed out... We never did find a body." ([25:16])

  This discrepancy raises questions about Mick’s true involvement and intentions. Carrie discovers in the memory box a news article where Mick claims that Tim, another individual involved, threatened his family to secure Mick’s silence:

  "Tim had threatened to kill me, my mom and my sister if he told anyone about the murder." ([34:05])

  Mick reinforces this claim during an interview:

  "He threatened the fuck out. He said, you know what's going to happen if you don't. I may not be no angel, but I did not shoot that girl." ([35:15])

• Caleb’s Testimony and Emotional Turmoil

  Caleb, one of Mick’s cousins, expresses regret and confusion over the legal outcomes:

  "Why James got blamed. I didn't know James got in trouble. Not to. You got a hold of me." ([31:23])

  The emotional burden weighs heavily on Caleb, who maintains Mick’s innocence in the 1995 case despite his involvement in the earlier murder.

Legal Proceedings and Verdict [31:10 – 36:34]

The episode details the court’s decision, influenced by the lack of concrete evidence in Mick’s case regarding Cindy Cozad’s murder. Rick Faulkner successfully negotiates a plea for Mick, resulting in reduced charges but leaving lingering doubts about the true nature of Mick’s actions.

• Courtroom Dynamics and Verdict

  Rick explains the plea deal:

  "He gave a confession and statement and then did a plea on it because we pled him to a manslaughter." ([26:04])

  The final verdict reflects the complex interplay of familial loyalty, coercion, and the quest for justice:

  "The verdict was read, and I don't think either one of us thought that that was going to happen." ([36:16])

Conclusions and Reflections [36:34 – 37:51]

Carrie synthesizes the revelations from the investigation, highlighting Mick’s role as both a protector and a figure operating within a moral gray area. The episode underscores the enduring impact of past traumas on present circumstances and the elusive nature of truth in the face of conflicting narratives.

• Moral Ambiguity and the Quest for Truth

  Geraldine defends Mick’s intentions:

  "He did what he had to do so that he felt like we were safe. That's the only way it makes sense to me." ([34:24])

  Carrie reflects on the complexity of Mick’s character:

  "He operates in a moral gray area. He's willing to make sacrifices to protect the people he loves, even if it involves violence." ([33:27])

Key Takeaways

• Family Loyalty vs. Justice: The episode explores how deep familial bonds can influence individuals to take drastic measures, blurring the lines between right and wrong.

• The Elusiveness of Truth: Conflicting accounts and lack of concrete evidence make it challenging to uncover the full truth behind the murders.

• Long-lasting Trauma: The psychological impact on Mick and his cousins highlights the enduring scars left by violent pasts.

Notable Quotes

• Mick on His Actions:

  "We had no choice. All I want to do is get this out in the open so I can go on living a normal life." ([21:27])

• Caleb on Responsibility:

  "He was innocent on the 85 murder. I live with her every day." ([31:34])

• Rick Faulkner on the Case:

  "We made a serious effort because it's in an area that I had originally grown up in." ([22:06])

Conclusion

Episode 6 of Lords of Death: "Angel of Death" intricately weaves a tale of familial bonds, moral dilemmas, and the pursuit of truth amidst unresolved crimes. Through Carrie’s persistent investigation and the unveiling of complex family dynamics, listeners are invited to ponder the depths of human behavior when faced with extreme circumstances.

For more episodes and in-depth true crime stories, subscribe to Lords of Death on your favorite podcast platform or visit Tenderfoot TV.

Transcript

[Thrasher Banks]

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[Mick]

When you feel a cold coming, shorten it with Zycam, the number one cold shortening brand.

[Carrie]

Oh no, not before the holidays.

[Mick]

Your cold is coming. Your cold is coming. Thanks Revere.

[Carrie]

I really should keep Zycam in the house. Getting a cold is on no one's wish list.

[Thrasher Banks]

Take it from America's most revered messenger. Shorten your cold at the first sign with cold shortening products from Zycam, the number one cold shortening brand available in stores. Or see where to [e-mail] Lords of.

[Carrie]

Death is released weekly, every Monday and brought to you absolutely free. But if you want an exclusive ad free binge, sign up for Tinderfield. Check out the show notes for the link to subscribe.

[Narrator]

You're listening to Lords of Death, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone, including themes of murder and sexual violence. Listener discretion is advised.

[Carrie]

When my mom, Carrie Gave me the box that started all of this. I wanted to figure out why Cindy Cozad was murdered in June of 1995. And what was the extent of Mick's involvement. When I was a kid, my mom was adamant that Mick was just driving the car and had nothing to do with the murder. But if this is true, it's not clear why Tim killed Cindy. Even today, Nick claims he doesn't know.

[Mick]

Still, to this day, I don't know why he did that. He would never tell me. I asked him. He just said, fuck that bitch. That's what he said.

[Carrie]

When I spoke with Tim's close friend Pete Gravens, he revealed one potential motive for the murder.

[Caleb]

Like I said, that's what made sense about the fucking girl up there, is.

[Mick]

That he wanted to impress Mickey.

[Rick Faulkner]

And saying, look, now I know your secrets.

[Caleb]

Now you know mine. Now we can do stuff together.

[Carrie]

This made me wonder if the murder was supposed to be Mick's sacrifice to join the Lords of death. Remember, to join the group, you had to take a soul. As much as I didn't want to believe this, I couldn't just write it off. And the only person who knew the real reason behind the murder was Tim. So I wrote him a letter and asked him to tell me the truth about what happened and if Mick shot Cindy. You want to know if Mick lied? He wrote, I'm not asking you to believe me over Mick. So ask him to explain what happened on his last case when he went to prison for manslaughter. So Tim's reasoning for why I should believe Mick shot Cindy Cozad is simple. He says, mick has killed before. But if this is true, I need to know the full story. So I sat down with my mom and asked her what she knew about it.

[Geraldine]

I knew about Mick having a past from day one. From the very first day that he came over and sat on the porch and talked to me. He was very open and honest about his past and the fact that he had been in prison before and why he was in prison. He told me that in the mid-80s, he had served some time in prison for killing his uncle. He told me that his uncle was very abusive. A very mean, angry man that abused Meg and his cousins, and they all got together and decided to put an end to it. And the only way they could do that was by murdering him.

[Carrie]

From Tenderfoot tv, I'm Thrasher Banks. This is the words of death.

[Geraldine]

So he told me that they killed his uncle by shooting him, that they all had participated in shooting him and Then they took the body and buried it in Wayne National Forest. He took the blame for the murder completely himself. He didn't want his cousins in any kind of trouble at all. So he was the only one who served any time. I was never skeptical of anything that he told me because he didn't have to tell me. He volunteered everything that he told me. So I never questioned it. It just seemed like the truth. He wasn't putting the blame on anyone else. He was taking the blame. He wasn't making any excuses for it. So, yeah, I believed him 100%.

[Carrie]

Now, do you think that he was the ringleader of that situation, or do you think that he was just more along for the ride?

[Geraldine]

I kind of feel like he might have been along for the ride and then took the fall for it. Because his personality, although he had a strong personality and he was very outgoing, he kind of does seem to be a follower, not a leader.

[Carrie]

So with the mix hole, the whole uncle thing, like, how did you feel about that?

[Geraldine]

I had no reason and still have no reason to not believe what he had told me. I didn't have the Internet then. Nobody did. So I couldn't, like, look things up and verify anything. But I had no reason to not believe him. Although I don't condone murder in any capacity, I understood why he did what he did.

[Carrie]

Did it ever, like, cross your mind and make you feel uncomfortable?

[Geraldine]

No. I was never afraid of him because of that, because I trusted him. If anything, I felt terrible that he had to do what he did to protect his cousins and his family. You know, unless you knew him, you probably wouldn't understand. But I also know that I'm not the only person that's ever been in this type of situation that saw someone for who they really were and not the way the rest of the world saw them.

[Carrie]

So here's the thing about my mom. She always looks for the best in people. The idea that Mick sacrificed himself to protect his family outweighed the fact that he had killed someone. But for me, as an adult, I had a hard time believing Mick's story. I mean, what are the odds that Mick was involved in two different murders? @ this point, I started thinking that maybe Mick had manipulated my mom and wasn't the person we thought he was. But to give Mick the benefit of the doubt, I gave him the opportunity to tell me his side of the story.

[Mick]

I lived in Buskirk, Kentucky at the time, staying with my grandma. Like I said, I was in my little badass phase when I was a teenager. Me and my grandma don't get along at all. And my uncle, he would come down and pick me up, and he would take us down to his place right there in Ohio. He did that a lot, too. I really liked him because he'd come and get me like every summer, you know, he would just take me down there. I'd stay there the whole summer, and he'd bring me back toward the fall. I just hang out with him.

[Carrie]

Mick's uncle Jack lived in a rural part of southeastern Ohio with his wife, Geraldine and her three kids from a previous marriage. To protect their privacy, I'm not using their real names. There was Caleb, who was Mick's age, his brother Miles, and their older sister Maddie.

[Mick]

You know, they're some really good people. They are. I pretty much love them like brothers. I mean, we grew up together pretty much, you know. Yeah, they're my people.

[Carrie]

After spending a few summers in Ohio with the family, Mick developed a close relationship with his cousins. For a while, everything seemed fine. Mick even admits he enjoyed spending time with his Uncle Jack and the rest of the family. But in the summer of 1985, things started to change.

[Mick]

The stories they told me, I was just horrified. They would show me all these bullet holes in the wall where they would make him stand. He would shoot around them. That's just some foul shit that whole family, I guess, had been going through ever since they married him. Oh, they were scared to death of him. They were literally scared of him. Everybody was. I never had a clue he was like that. I mean, I knew he was a dickhead about things, but I know he was like that to that family. Until over time, I would start seeing things and put two and two together.

[Carrie]

Nick witnessed some of this firsthand, like the bullet holes in the bedroom wall that he mentioned. But his cousins shared other stories about Jack that detailed a pattern of abuse they'd endured during the seven years he'd been in their lives. Here's one of the cousins, Caleb. He refers to Mick by his first name, James.

[Caleb]

I'll be straight up, okay? The guy was a sick bastard. The guy was just pervert in the fucking head. You know what he told me? That I would fuck my own mother if somebody would hold her down. Let me fuck her. I don't know, Bobby, how somebody could be like that. Seven years we lived with this guy. We went through a lot of shit. I couldn't even eat supper, dude. He flipped the table over. Seriously. He walked in the kitchen, he sitting there eating. Now, he would just grab the table.

[Carrie]

Just wham this was a side of Jack that Mick had never seen before.

[Mick]

I just couldn't believe what I was seeing, you know, I was ashamed that he was my uncle. I'm like, wow, this was something he had hidden from the family forever. And I just couldn't believe he was doing what he was doing, abusing them like that. I mean, he was that bad of a dude.

[Caleb]

He was.

[Mick]

He pulled a gun, he'd draw down on you so quick, it wasn't even funny. He was serious, you know what I mean? He was a real bad dude. He was. It would just leave you in shock, too, because you just couldn't believe it.

[Carrie]

Some of the stories Caleb and Mick shared with me are so horrific. I don't even want to go into detail here.

[Caleb]

Like I said, we went through hell, dude. We sat in the house and he would just pull out his gun and start shooting. We have to get down into bed because he would come in to start shooting guns, his little.22 pistol. Pow, pow, pow to the wild. Then we get down again. It's bad, you know, he beat my sister so bad. My sister's been through a lot.

[Carrie]

Maddie had at the worst of them all. And as the abuse escalated over the coming months, the other cousins couldn't bear to let it go on a day longer.

[Caleb]

That's what led up to it. It beat my sister so bad. And we just had enough, man. We had enough. We couldn't do it no more.

[Carrie]

As the night went on and Jack became more intoxicated, his behavior towards Maddie grew more violent and unpredictable. Mick and his cousins felt that if they didn't do something, her life could be in danger.

[Mick]

Well, that night we all knew. I mean, we just knew. I said, oh, man. And he was acting precariously strange, too. That night he started showing his ass, got drunk. It starts out like I said, every time we're down there every weekend, he likes to get drunk. Well, that's when his true, true, true colors come out. He threatened to kill.

[Caleb]

She didn't really do nothing.

[Mick]

This is how he was. He just picked on her. He picked on all of them. And that in particular night, can't remember exactly how he said or what he said, but we knew. I said, nah, he's gonna hurt her, kill her or something. And I don't know. I've had enough myself. Everybody had enough. And we just knew. I knew we were gonna take a stand that night. I just knew. Did you know that happened on Halloween night, by the way?

[Carrie]

The way Jack was treating Maddie pushed Mick and his Cousins over the edge. Rather than let him continue to abuse her, they decided to finally do something about it.

[Caleb]

We say it's enough. We can't do it no more. He was on the rampage, he was being very violent and some reason he left us at home and we said no more. Couldn't do it. No more, man. Couldn't do it. Like I said, I told you that. Seven years of hell.

[Carrie]

And according to Mick, the cousins weren't the only ones ready to do something about Jack.

[Mick]

Geraldine whispered it in my ear that night. I wish she was dead. That's what she said.

[Tammy]

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[Geraldine]

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[Carrie]

The cousins decided that rather than call the police and run the risk of Jack making bail and it all coming back on them, they needed to end it once and for all. To them, the only way out was to kill Jack. So after he left the house with Maddie to drink with a friend, Mick, Caleb and Miles put a plan into motion. The plan was for Mick and Miles to wait behind a coal pile and shoot Jack when he got out of his truck. Caleb's job was to guard the back door with a shotgun in case Jack tried to get inside.

[Mick]

He went and got the shotgun, loaded them, gave me a pocket full of shells. He took a pocket full of shells, and the rest is history. We was waiting for him to come back, and that's what we was all concerned about because we knew once he came back, we all knew he was on. We knew there was no turning back. And you could really hear Our hearts pounding when he was driving up the driveway. We were scared to death. I ain't gonna lie. Jack pulled up, he stepped out of the truck, and we made sure went in first before we started firing. And as soon as Jack got toward the end of his truck and she was inside, I fired him dead in the back. He fell. I reloaded again and fired another one.

[Carrie]

At that point, they went inside the house to check on Maddie and Geraldine, who were both distraught.

[Mick]

We stepped back outside to look on him. See, we know what we're going to do with him. And he was gone, right? We like, where the hell did he go? And then we kind of looked around and he was up under the truck, his hand upon the axle. You could see he was slipping away. Then dragged him out and Jax asked the question, why are you doing this? And replied, you know why. He fired three or four times, if I remember correctly.

[Caleb]

I ain't gonna lie to you. I'm gonna be straight honest. When that happened, he came over by the truck. He was standing up there. I pulled out a shotgun, opened up the back door, and I went, boom. I don't know if I hit him. I ain't hit truck no more holes in the truck. I don't know if I hit him or not. But I was so scared he gonna come in the fucking house, dude, and hurt my family again. Guy was sick, brother. God was sick. He hated me. I care. I hated him too. They pay back the. So I always look at it.

[Mick]

Then finally we went back inside again, and Geraldine was, you know, I'm sorry. You could just see the look of happiness on her face. I'm sorry. She was happy. I think was the one that suggested burying him. Mike says, I know exactly where to go.

[Carrie]

After killing Jack, they wrapped his body up in a rug and put him in the back of a pickup truck. They decided that Mick and Miles would bury his body in a remote part of Wayne National Forest, while Caleb stayed home to clean up the blood and pick up the shell casings.

[Mick]

We drove around forever, though. God, I mean, I think we drove around for three or four hours, But I could remember seeing a transmitter tower blinking off in the distance. It wasn't that far off either. I mean, it couldn't have been no more than 500 yards. And he went. He went down over this hill with like, a little. Where you could pull off to the side of the road. And in fact, when we dragged him out of the truck, he was in a tarp, right? And as soon as he hit the ground, he took off he started sliding down the hill. We had chase after him, but he stopped when he hit a tree down at the bottom of the bluff. That's where we decided to bury him, right where he stopped.

[Carrie]

Nick and Miles spent several hours digging the hole for Jack's body. By the time they were done, it was daylight, and they drove into town to wash the blood off of the truck. So what happened after? Did you guys, like, leave town or what happened?

[Mick]

If I remember correctly, they left that day.

[Carrie]

Where'd you go?

[Mick]

We all went to Kentucky. And. Well, I went back home, you know, with my brothers and everything. My mom, grandma.

[Carrie]

The story that told the rest of the family was that Jack got upset, left, and never came home.

[Mick]

Nobody believed it, though. As far as you could just see grandma, that was her son. She was like. That don't make sense, you know? So I guess they would come and get her, and they would take her down to the Portsmouth Police Department. They filed a missing person's report. They finally one day they came and talked to me, and so they said, we know what happened. You know, I'm like, ah, here we go.

[Carrie]

It took authorities nearly two years to figure out what happened. When they first spoke with Mick, he wrote out a detailed confession about the murder. Here's part of his statement. That was a very nice family, Mick wrote. They would do anything for a person. But when Jack came into their lives, it was a whole new deal. Jack had that family scared to death. What we did was the only way out for the family. And if you knew Jack the way we did, you would agree that was the only way out for them, too. You know, I've never had any feelings of taking someone's life. And after we shot and killed Jack, things in my life haven't been the same for me. And I'm sure it hasn't been for Miles and Caleb. You have these weird dreams. Can't think right. But as time goes by, it clears up little by little. But not all of it. I can see myself not wanting to do things like I used to. It's just a different life to live with. Although Miles, Maddie, Caleb, and Geraldine can finally live in peace after seven years of fear, beatings, and whatever else Jack put them through, they are free to live their lives the way they want to. But you gotta understand this much. I ain't no murderer. I don't intend to be one either, even though I have killed a person. But that was the only chance that I could see of getting something done about Jack. You must understand, it had to be Done. We had a purpose to do what we did. And I sure do feel bad about it. We had no choice. All I want to do is get this out in the open so I can go on living a normal life. Because I feel that after all this is over with, I'll be able to go on without any problems. But I want you to understand we're not cold blooded. And I don't want to be thought of as that. Just investigate it and you'll see I speak the truth. Even with Mick's confession, the lack of a body made it difficult to build a case. So they asked Mick to take them where they buried Jack out in Wayne National Forest.

[Mick]

They took us all down to Portsmouth, just do a little drive along. But we ended up going down there with them, driving the back roads. And I just knew something, right, because those back roads had been reworked. They did a lot of road work back there, and it just wasn't the same because I couldn't find that spot for nothing.

[Carrie]

Yeah, this is a hell of a story.

[Mick]

It's crazy. It's crazy as fuck.

[Carrie]

I found documents in the box about Jack's murder and noticed that an attorney named Rick Faulkner represented Mick on the case. I have no reason to doubt Mick and Caleb's account, but I hope to get additional clarification from a third party. So I gave Rick a call and asked him if he remembered Mick's case.

[Rick Faulkner]

If this was the Halloween killing, and it was at South Webster, Ohio. I'm Pretty sure that's McWhorter. I got it. I remember the case now. Once you do a homicide, you don't forget it. So what's McWhorter got to do with you? Kid was bound to lose the way he was brought up when we got him. He was a nice kid. He didn't have an ax to grind with the world. But bad seemed to happen around him. He would have been maybe 18, 19. McWhorter was a follower. This guy that was a victim was not a good guy and that was pretty, well, uncontroverted. He was a bad guy, no question about it. And the way he was treating this little girl, she was young. He pimped her out to local guys. The whole thing was about what he was doing with the daughter and how mean he was to the kids. And they were all scared to death of him. Roughed him up pretty bad. It was certainly one of those brought upon by a very emotional circumstance. It wasn't justifiable, but it was certainly understandable.

[Carrie]

Even law enforcement understood why they Killed Jack. As Caleb said, they went through seven years of hell. Given the pattern of abuse they were subjected to, I can see why they did what they did, although I don't condone it. And so far, it sounds like Mick has been truthful about why they killed Jack. His public defender, Rick, was able to confirm it almost to a tee. All these years later.

[Rick Faulkner]

They jumped up from behind the coal pile, shot him, didn't kill him, let him bleed out. They pulled him out from underneath the truck, rolled him up, put him in the back. It was the middle of the night because it was close to midnight when they got over to the gas station with him, rolled up in a rug laying in the back of a pickup truck. And they were going to take him out in the forest and bury him. And then they come up with the idea that one of them knew where there was a well, and they just drop him in the well. But then grandma found out where he was and started talking to him about the ghost was walking the ridge out there someplace. And I rode with the deputies out there with the kid for a couple of weekends. We're trying to place it from the boy's memory because they had driven out there in the middle of the night on Halloween, because he was very, very specific where they came from. And there's only three ways up on top of that ridge. And we went through literally a half a dozen different cations of wells. And we got into one that seemed to fit his description because there was a radio tower not too far. He described. Well, there's only one radio tower out there at a place called Roe. We made a serious effort because it's in an area that I had originally grown up in. And so we knew from his description as to where all this was, and we knew that there were wells out there, because if you walk those hills and ridges, you got to be aware that there's wells out there that you could fall into. So we knew where this little community of Roe had been located. When we was up there looking, we went through several of these wells, got down in this well and dug it up, and there was trash and such in it. And they found some bones. Turned out the bones we found were bovine in nature. We never did find a body.

[Carrie]

So that body's still out there somewhere.

[Rick Faulkner]

Somewhere. I don't think he was ever found.

[Carrie]

So the discrepancy between Mick's account and Rick's is that Mick told me that they buried Jack, but when he went with law enforcement to search for the body, he told them they dumped him in a well. So I talked to Rick Faulkner.

[Mick]

Yeah, my lawyer.

[Carrie]

Rick seemed to think the body was in an old well.

[Mick]

Listen, he's buried out there. They did a lot of road work, I guess since 1985 back there. I mean, I was amazed at how different things was.

[Carrie]

So what I gathered without Mick stating it explicitly is that he had no intentions of leading them to Jack's body. So he made up the story about the well even though they didn't recover Jack's body. Mick was charged with aggravated murder.

[Rick Faulkner]

He felt bad about it, but he gave a confession and statement and then did a plea on it because we pled him to a manslaughter. They didn't have anything really to put him except the testimony of the co defendants. They didn't have a body. You know, it's very rare that you can convict somebody, but you can out a body as long as they're clear that he's dead. He did, I don't know, a couple of years, not a lot of time.

[Carrie]

Given the circumstances of Jack's murder, Rick was able to get the courts to throw out the aggravated murder charge if Mick pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter, which carried his sentence of three to 10 years. After that, Mick never saw his cousins or Geraldine again.

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[Tammy]

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[Mick]

The last time I saw them. Portsmouth County Jail. That's the last time I saw them. They were called in as witnesses to the grand jury. That's the last time I saw them. That's the last time I heard or anything new about them, you know?

[Carrie]

Mick's cousins avoided charges for the murder and didn't know what happened to Mick until I connected with Caleb a few years ago.

[Caleb]

Guys see the boy, like I said, for 35 years. Long, long, long time. You know, I prospered. And the poor boy, did he get jail time out of this? From the 85. Do you know of.

[Carrie]

He was at mansfield for like three.

[Caleb]

Years over the 85 murder.

[Carrie]

Yeah. So from 88 through 91, I don't.

[Caleb]

Wish I had nobody. The boy was innocent. I swear, man.

[Carrie]

So how did it turn out that James is the one that got in trouble and not you?

[Caleb]

I don't know. I swear to God, man. I do not know that I did. We went. They come and guide us. We come all the way back to Howell and. I said all the way back to Southwestern. We went to court. I can remember sitting in there, and it was just the one person on the end of the table was asking questions. The prosecutors was actually on their side, but they. They just told me to go home. Why James got blamed. I don't. I told the whole truth. Nothing but the truth, Ben. And why James got. I didn't know James got in trouble. Not to. You got a hold of me.

[Carrie]

What his lawyer told me was that he made a deal that as long as you didn't get in any trouble, that he would take the fall for it.

[Caleb]

He checked the blade, huh? I just love. Right there. I just love. He knew what we was going through, man. He's innocent. On 85. We all had parts of it, not just him. I live with her every day.

[Mick]

Think about it.

[Caleb]

And it made me a better person, baby. Made me love more. Made me realize what you got. I'm so sorry.

[Carrie]

Learning about the circumstances surrounding Jack's murder gave me a new perspective on Mick. It turned out that he wasn't manipulating my mom at all. What he told her about the murder when they first met was true. What he did wasn't right. But he did it to protect his family. So he operates in a moral gray area. He's willing to make sacrifices to protect the people he loves, even if it involves violence. If they didn't kill Jack, Maddy could have ended up dead. But what does this mean for his role in Cindy Cozad's murder 10 years later. Do you think that Nick would kill someone, kill a woman for no reason?

[Geraldine]

I do not. I think that the only reason Mick would have fired a shot would be if he thought she was already dead. And he was doing it to save us. He did what he had to do so that he felt like we were safe. That's the only way it makes sense to me. Knowing Mick, the way that we knew.

[Carrie]

Mick, even my Aunt Tammy felt that Mick was trying to protect us. Was he forced to?

[Geraldine]

Because I don't think Mick would have done it otherwise.

[Carrie]

I think he was in a situation.

[Geraldine]

That he didn't know how to get out of.

[Carrie]

And the only way to save his.

[Narrator]

Life, your life, your sister's life, and.

[Geraldine]

Carrie's life, was to do what Tim was telling him to do.

[Narrator]

I think he did it to protect you guys.

[Carrie]

Like a sacrifice.

[Geraldine]

Yes. His life for yours.

[Carrie]

I found a news article in the box where Mick is quoted saying that Tim had threatened to kill me, my mom and my sister if he told anyone about the murder. He even echoes this sentiment in his interview with Detective Wade Lawson.

[Caleb]

I can't lie.

[Mick]

I can't tell I did this. I'm sorry. I didn't shoot him. Well, I know it may look like that, tell you what. But I didn't shoot. He wanted me to. They threatened me. He threatened the fuck out. He said, you know what's going to happen if you don't. I may not be no angel, but I did not shoot that girl. I got a woman I love very much and two kids that he ain't mine, but I love him.

[Carrie]

So if Mick did shoot Cindy, did he do it out of fear that Tim would harm my family? If he was coerced by Tim, is he equally responsible for Cindy's death? Ultimately, that question was decided by a jury at his trial.

[Mick]

But he didn't kill her.

[Carrie]

I can't convict this person when he didn't kill her. We were looking at the same facts differently. That's when the truth becomes a more abstract idea.

[Geraldine]

The verdict was read, and I don't think either one of us thought that that was going to happen.

[Narrator]

Lords of Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Thrasher Banks. The show is written, produced and edited by Thrasher Banks, with additional writing by Meredith Stedman and Dennis Cooper. Produced by Meredith Steadman and Dennis Cooper. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. Consulting producer and video production by George Miller. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity set with additional music by Thrasher Banks mixed by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Special thanks to Torino Ross, Caitlin Kaboski and Thrasher's mom Carrie. For more podcasts like Lords of Death, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.

[Carrie]

Thanks for listening to this episode of Lords of Death. This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you want an exclusive ad free binge, sign up for Tenderfoot plus check out the show notes for the link to subscribe.