Listener Mailbag

Summary

Podcast Summary: Lost Boys – Episode: Listener Mailbag Release Date: July 17, 2025
Hosts: Anthony Scaramucci and Scott Galloway

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Introduction

In the "Listener Mailbag" episode of Lost Boys, hosts Anthony Scaramucci and Professor Scott Galloway address various listener-submitted questions and concerns regarding the challenges young men face in contemporary America. The discussion spans topics such as developing success habits, navigating divorce, defining masculinity, the role of parents, the myth of college, and coping with failure. The episode aims to provide actionable insights and foster resilience among young men struggling with personal and societal pressures.

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Developing Good Habits of Success

Listener Question:
Robert, a 27-year-old seeking purpose, asks Scott: “How do you develop the good habits of success? What do you recommend that I do on a daily basis to get my positivity going and my feeling and sense of purpose?”

Scott Galloway's Response ([02:12]):
Scott emphasizes that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to developing success habits. He shares personal motivators, such as his mother's illness and fatherhood, which fueled his resilience. He underscores the importance of enduring rejection and building small, daily disciplines that compound over time. Scott outlines several actionable steps:

• Financial Discipline: Save small amounts daily, invest in low-cost index funds.
• Social Connectivity: Send thoughtful messages, be generous and make efforts to help others.
• Physical Fitness: Maintain a regular workout routine.
• Continuous Productivity: Create content, reach out to potential clients.

He encapsulates success as “a series of small demonstrations of discipline every day that compound”.

Anthony Scaramucci's Addition ([05:19]):
Anthony agrees with Scott, highlighting the significance of physical fitness. He advocates for establishing microhabits, referencing James Clear's Atomic Habits. Anthony points out the importance of community in fitness activities for emotional well-being and social connections. He summarizes: “It's the microhabits that get you to the success.”

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Resilience and Overcoming Setbacks

Listener Feedback:
A listener commends Anthony’s resilience, recounting his own experience of Anthony’s public fall from grace and subsequent recovery.

Scott Galloway's Commentary ([06:08] – [09:00]):
Scott praises Anthony's ability to bounce back from public humiliation, emphasizing that resilience involves getting back up after setbacks. He introduces the concept of “mourn and move on”, advocating for:

• Allowing Time to Grieve: Recognize and process emotions from failures or losses.
• Setting a Statute of Limitations: Determine a healthy period for mourning before taking proactive steps.
• Seeking Support: Reach out to others when struggling beyond the mourning period.

Anthony Scaramucci's Reflection ([07:25] – [09:00]):
Anthony shares his personal low points following his firing from the White House, admitting he was in the “fetal position” for about ten days. He underscores the necessity of working through emotional turmoil rather than avoiding it. Anthony stresses: “Work through it. That is a big thing. You got to work through things.”

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Navigating Divorce and Parental Roles

Listener Question:
A 30-year-old recently divorced man expresses concerns over limited access to his children, feeling the court system favors women. He fears becoming an “uncle” rather than a father.

Scott Galloway's Insights ([13:28] – [17:07]):
Scott discusses the emotional complexities of divorce, noting that teenagers often prioritize their social lives over parental relationships. He highlights the issue of parents weaponizing children against each other, drawing from personal anecdotes. Scott calls for:

• Family Court Reform: Advocating for joint custody arrangements where feasible.
• Parental Responsibility: Both parents must prioritize the child's well-being over personal anger.
• Active Involvement: Men, especially fathers, should strive to maintain a consistent presence to prevent negative outcomes like increased incarceration rates among boys lacking male role models.

Anthony Scaramucci's Perspective ([17:07] – [18:25]):
Anthony emphasizes the importance of quantity over quality time, advising fathers to maximize the time spent with their children through consistent effort. He advises against speaking ill of ex-spouses in front of children, stating: “Your kids are half of your spouse. So you can't [complain] about your spouse to your kids because your kid is half of them.” Anthony advocates for practical actions like being present at events and maintaining a positive relationship with co-parents to foster healthy relationships in children.

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Addressing the Lack of Support Programs for Young Boys

Listener Case:
Shannon raises a concern about her son lacking access to after-school programs tailored for boys, unlike his sisters, which may lead to resentment and social disconnect.

Scott Galloway's Analysis ([19:35] – [22:38]):
Scott acknowledges the historical context of support programs aimed at leveling the playing field for marginalized groups. He critiques the absence of equivalent support structures for boys, pointing out the scarcity of male-focused support groups in educational institutions. Scott argues for:

• Awareness and Advocacy: Encouraging schools and communities to recognize and address the needs of boys.
• Creation of Support Programs: Developing initiatives that provide boys with communal spaces to engage in activities like coding and running.

Anthony Scaramucci's Agreement ([22:38] – [23:56]):
Anthony concurs, advocating for increased awareness and the establishment of more balanced support programs. He underscores the podcast’s mission to raise awareness and suggests institutional efforts to create gender-symmetrical opportunities for young boys.

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Defining Masculinity and Combating Toxic Influences

Listener Question:
A listener discusses the ambiguity of masculinity and its potential link to the rise of toxic masculinity influencers, seeking solutions to define healthy masculinity.

Scott Galloway's Comprehensive Breakdown ([23:56] – [35:55]):
Scott delves into his forthcoming book, Notes on Being a Man, outlining his framework for healthy masculinity based on three pillars:

1. Provider: Emphasizes economic responsibility and planning for oneself and family.
2. Protector: Focuses on the innate role of men to protect others, advocating for societal structures where women feel safe relying on men.
3. Procreator: Highlights the motivational aspect of sexual desire in driving men to improve themselves and build meaningful relationships.

He critiques both the far-right and far-left approaches to masculinity:

• Far-Right: While recognizing male struggles, they often respond with regressive ideals promoting dominance over women.
• Far-Left: Suggests that men should emulate feminine traits, which Scott finds impractical and counterproductive.

Scott dismisses the term “toxic masculinity”, arguing that true masculinity inherently excludes cruelty and promotes protective and generative qualities. He calls for a redefinition of masculinity that upholds positive attributes without diminishing femininity.

Anthony Scaramucci's Addition ([35:55] – [39:54]):
Anthony supports Scott’s vision, sharing personal experiences where vocational success without a college degree led to fulfilling lives. He argues against societal pressure to attain higher education, advocating for diverse pathways to success that honor individual strengths and interests.

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The Myth of College and Embracing Alternative Success Paths

Listener Question:
Anonymous Listener inquires about the validity of bypassing college, questioning whether it's truly acceptable not to pursue higher education amidst societal pressures.

Scott Galloway's Dual Perspective ([39:54] – [41:44]):
Scott acknowledges the limitations within the American education system and the lack of emphasis on vocational training. He advocates for:

• Vocational Programs: Promoting apprenticeships and trades as viable and respectable career paths.
• Cultural Shift: Encouraging society to value and recognize non-college careers without stigmatizing those who choose them.

However, he also stresses that for those who have access to affordable education, college remains a valuable avenue for personal and professional development.

Anthony Scaramucci's Experience ([41:44] – [43:40]):
Anthony recounts his upbringing in a large family where only a few members pursued college degrees. He illustrates that success and fulfillment can be achieved through various trades and entrepreneurial endeavors. Anthony emphasizes the importance of removing the stigma around non-college paths and recognizing their potential for success and personal satisfaction.

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Embracing Failure as a Path to Success

Listener Question:
A listener expresses difficulty in coping with failure, finding it demoralizing and questioning whether it is truly acceptable to fail.

Scott Galloway's Reassuring Response ([43:40] – [46:41]):
Scott clarifies that American culture doesn't glorify failure but tolerates it, allowing individuals to take risks without catastrophic consequences. He shares his own entrepreneurial failures, emphasizing resilience:

• Risk-Taking: Encouraging men to take calculated risks, understanding that failure is often a stepping stone to success.
• Cultural Safety Nets: Highlighting the role of bankruptcy laws and second chances in fostering an environment where failure isn't permanent.
• Perspective on Failure: Viewing failures as learning experiences and not personal indictments, thereby reducing the fear and stigma associated with them.

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Parental Guidance and Encouragement for Young Sons

Listener Feedback:
A clinical psychologist and parent urges the hosts to focus more on the pivotal role parents play in affirming and guiding young sons, noting a lack of structure and support.

Scott Galloway's Insights ([46:41] – [50:32]):
Scott references research by Gene Twenge and Jonathan Haidt, identifying social media pressures and overprotective parenting (concierge or bulldozer parenting) as major contributors to rising teen depression. He advocates for:

• Balanced Parenting: Encouraging independence by allowing children to experience failure and resilience-building.
• Role Modeling: Demonstrating healthy relationships and interactions to foster emotional security in children.
• Discipline: Implementing necessary boundaries and disciplinary actions to prepare children for real-world challenges.

Anthony Scaramucci's Personal Reflections ([50:32] – [51:50]):
Anthony shares his struggles with parenting, emphasizing the balance between being a supportive father and enforcing discipline. He highlights the importance of modeling good behavior and maintaining a strong alliance between parents to provide a stable environment for children. Anthony underscores that effective parenting involves both kindness and the enforcement of boundaries to cultivate responsible and emotionally healthy sons.

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Conclusion and Future Directions

In the closing segments, Scott announces the release of his book, Notes on Being a Man, scheduled for September. Both hosts express gratitude for each other's contributions and outline plans to develop a mini curriculum based on the episode's discussions. They encourage listeners to visit their website, www.lostboys.men, for additional resources and to continue the conversation on supporting young men.

Final Remarks ([51:50] – [53:31]):
Scott and Anthony thank their executive producers and team members, highlighting the collaborative effort behind the podcast. They leave listeners with a reflective thought on financial prudence and the importance of supporting each other in navigating the complexities of modern masculinity.

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Notable Quotes

1. Scott Galloway at [02:12]:
   “Success is a series of small demonstrations of discipline every day that compound.”

2. Anthony Scaramucci at [05:19]:
   “There's no such thing as quality time, Scott. I think there's quantity time.”

3. Scott Galloway at [23:56]:
   “Provider, protector, and procreator. That's how I distill it down to what it means to be masculine.”

4. Scott Galloway at [35:55]:
   “Masculinity is a wonderful thing. We need to stop conflating cruelty and coarseness with masculinity.”

5. Scott Galloway at [43:40]:
   “In America, as long as you're a good person, you try hard, you treat your investors well, you communicate regularly, you're good to employees, sometimes the timing's just not there.”

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Key Takeaways

• Personal Resilience: Building small, daily habits can lead to significant long-term success. Resilience involves processing failures and moving forward.

• Parental Involvement: Active and consistent parental presence is crucial for the emotional and social development of young men, especially amidst divorce or separation.

• Redefining Masculinity: Emphasizing positive traits such as being a provider, protector, and procreator can offer a constructive framework for healthy masculinity, countering toxic influences.

• Alternative Success Paths: Recognizing and valuing vocational training and non-college career paths can alleviate societal pressure and provide diverse avenues for success.

• Embracing Failure: Accepting failure as part of the journey toward success encourages risk-taking and innovation without the fear of lasting stigma.

• Support Systems for Boys: Establishing more support programs tailored for boys can address social disconnect and prevent feelings of resentment and isolation.

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For more insights and resources discussed in this episode, visit www.lostboys.men.

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

Close your eyes. Exhale.

[Anthony]

Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts.

[Scott Galloway]

In time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.

[Anthony]

Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, sorry.

[Anthony]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw.

[Scott Galloway]

The discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[Anthony]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Okay, and we're back here on Lost Boys. It's me and Scott Galloway. Today's episode is all about you. We're going to share some of your stories, we're going to discuss your ideas and also try to answer some of your questions. And I think on behalf of Scott and myself, I just want to say thank you to everybody for the remarkable feedback. The Good, Bad and the Ugly. The podcast has been a big hit from our perspective in terms of just engaging people and getting them to talk about different things. And so Scott, listeners are saying thank you. I'm going to start with this first question which I think is perfect for you, Scott. So you're going to tee off with the first answer. But Robert emailed us to say it's great that you guys are talking about this. As a 27 year old guy looking for purpose in my life that the conversation really resonates with me. I actually felt heard. It also feels like a call of action when I see my friends struggling. My question for you, Scott, how do you develop the good habits of success? What do you recommend that I do on a daily basis to get my positivity going and my feeling and sense of purpose?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh God, look, I don't think there's any one size fits all, you know, there's. And obviously Anthony, you're good to my. There's some stuff that's very personal that you have to discover on your own. My two big unlocks were around very specific things. One, when my mom got sick, I got very motivated. When my kids were born, I felt a lot of pressure. And then also my atheism has been a huge source of motivation for me. Recognizing that life is finite and all the people I'm worried about being embarrassed in front of or not wanting to invest in me, or not wanting to give me a job or not wanting to date me. What I recognize is it doesn't matter that everyone's going to be dead soon and you miss all the shots you don't take. And my success has come down to my willingness to endure rejection. And I don't think I developed that. I developed that early, but it's kept growing. I think that's been a huge unlock for me emotionally, mentally and financially also. And then there's some very tactical things that I know that you can spread across your life. And I'll come back to something more existential. And that is success is a series of small demonstrations of discipline every day. Trying to figure out a way not to have that coffee, not to get that extra drink and try and take five or ten bucks every day, 300 bucks a month from a young age, and this is a young man, and put it away in low cost index funds and let it build every day a text message to your mom or someone you care about. Try to be generous, try and make some effort. Work out every day and success. Put out a piece of content every day, send a few emails to people, potential clients. But success is small demonstrations of discipline every day that compound and then going to the very bigger things. Or if you're struggling and you think, oh, I haven't found my purpose in your 20s. Well, most of us hadn't found our purpose in our 20s, so you're sort of where you should be. But greatness and emotional stability are in the agency of others. And if you're feeling down, having the ability to overcome some of the preconceived notions that are unhealthy about what it means to be masculine and reaching out to other people. And there's a couple things that help, I think snap you out of if you're feeling down on yourself. One, checking in with friends, how are you? Let's take a walk. Getting outdoors. No, really, how are you? I'm struggling. I'm bummed about this. And then trying to help others. Like I find action absorbs anxiety. When I'm feeling down, I try and get out of my head and work out. I try to think about other people. I check in, how are you? You know, I'm actually not doing that well. I try and express those emotions to people, but these are individual things. But there's some basics, small efforts of discipline, physical fitness, expressing your emotions to people, trying to become important to other people by Helping them. Those are some basics that I think are kind of universally accepted as to how to find your purpose, find your mental wellness. Bit of a word salad. Any thoughts, Anthony?

[Anthony]

Yeah, I'm a big believer in the physical fitness aspect. I tell people, if you're up at five o' clock in the morning and you've gotten a workout done by 6:30, good day. I don't know a lot of unhappy people. I mean, I know some tired people, but I just don't know a lot of unhappy people that are in the gym lifting weights, running. Also there's some level of collegiality to that if you're doing it with people spotting you a trainer or just you going to the gym and meeting people. But I like what you're saying because I believe it is the microhabits. It's like the James Clear book, Atomic Habits. It's the microhabits that get you to the success. There's a 30 year old man that wrote in, scott, I'm gonna weigh in on this first and then get your reaction.

[Scott Galloway]

He's saying, anthony, I just wanna press PA you have demonstrated remarkable resilience. And I'll just use a personal anecdote. When I first heard about you, it was. I heard this profane rant from you and that you had been fired from the White House. And I thought you were sort of a cartoon and a bit of a caricature. My impression of you was not that great. And then I got to know you, you never gave up, you got back in the game, you kept working and you are literally, you have surprised so many people to the upside about how thoughtful, well read, emotionally available you are, that you're a good person and you're strikingly intelligent and you could have just easily gone into the fucking fetal position having that sort of public humiliation. And instead you decided, no, that's not me, I'm going to live to fight another day. And you have had this kind of brand resonance or renaissance where my sense is you're doing really well, you have healthy relationships, you're having a big impact on people. So you're sort of case in point for, you know, the key to success. You're gonna get beamed in the fucking face. That's the only thing I can guarantee every young person. No doubt the key to success is whether you can just get up, dust up and get back to the plate.

[Anthony]

Well, listen, given my regard for you and the respect I have for you, that's very flattering what you said and I'm gonna take it because I was, though. I was, Scott, if I'm being brutally honest on this podcast, I was in the fetal position. I'm not gonna pretend that I wasn't when it probably took me 10 days to get out of the fetal position. But I did get out of the fetal position. I just don't want people to think, oh, I got hit like that. Made a mistake like that. Had a reporter that I knew for 30 years take a recording of me jocularly effing around with him and putting it on CNN and then getting fired like that, by the way. It was a comeuppance like none other that I've had in my life, Scott. But I just want people. I always want to be very clear with people. There were fetal position moments. And I guess the point is you can have these fetal position moments and still be resilient. You can say, okay, I've done the fetal position. I'm getting out of the fetal position now, and I'm going back to work. But, you know, Scott, somebody did say this to me. I don't know if I ever mentioned this. Somebody said to me, all right, this isn't a disaster. You're fairly wealthy. Go buy a villa in Tuscany, and we'll see you in five years. I said, what? Yeah, yeah, you'll never recover from this. So just go to. Go to Italy for five years, come back in 2022. And I'm like, okay, guys, I'm not doing that. I went on the Stephen Colbert show, and then I went on the Bill Maher show.

[Scott Galloway]

Work through it.

[Anthony]

Yeah, work through it. That is a big thing. You got to work through things.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, you said something just real quick there. I think success, in addition to these small acts of discipline every day, it's also the ability to mourn and move on. I'm not suggesting you just say, oh, I just got fired. No big deal. I'm going home and sending out some resumes. You know, absorb it. When bad shit happens to you, if you lose someone you love, if. If. If someone breaks up with you, if you have unrequited love, or if you invest in something and it gets cut in half, yeah. It's a healthy reaction to process it and mourn, but put a statute of limitations on it. And that is once you get kind of beyond, like, in the fetal position, it took you only 10 days. That's a remarkable recovery. But if you get fired, yeah, take a week and feel sorry for yourself. Twist your legs off your Barbie dolls or kick the dog or whatever it is you do. And then say, okay, now I'm back in the game and start sending out your CV and calling people and say, let me know if you hear and if anything. And also, don't be afraid to ask for help. I often joke that I'm a six year old man that's still not over the death of his mother. And what I found when I was 39, after my mom passed, like three, six 12 months in, I realized like, I just wasn't making a lot of progress. I was kind of at home doing the bare minimum, spending a lot of time alone, feeling sorry for myself, not making any progress professionally, socially. And I won't say I sought help, but I started reaching out to people and being very honest about the grief I was feeling. And what you find as a man with when you reach out and say, I'm struggling with the loss of my mother, you're going to find out so many dudes and so many people are struggling with the same thing and it's really cathartic and it helps you get through it. So mourn and move on. Give yourself some time to mourn. There's nothing wrong with that. But put a statute of limitations on it based on how long you think that healthy mourning period should be. And if you hit that statute of limitations and you're still struggling, reach out for help and try and get past it with, you know, in the agency of other people who've experienced something similar or have the domain expertise to say this is how you get better.

[Anthony]

I'm going to go way off script here, but I think it's really important to emphasize this. And this is one of the things that you do better than anybody. And I want to share this with people, not to just make this a mutual admiration society podcast, but the one thing you do, because I listen to all your podcasts, is you express your vulnerability to people. And through the process of expressing vulnerability, you gain trust because you're opening up a window into yourself. Most people are coming into the conversation, Scott, in a shell. They have an exo selling in. They've got their ego talking and they got the sword out. But you talking about your mom or talking about a business setback or talking about a relationship setback or, or whatever it might be, you're providing space in that vulnerability for other people to feel comfortable because everybody has that. And the pressure now for these kids is extraordinary because they're looking at filtered lives. They got the phone out looking at filtered lives and they themselves are living an unfiltered life. And when they're filtering their life. They're like, wow, this is a bunch of bullshit. I'm making the cheat cheesecake look way better than it actually is for the purpose of this photo. But I want to segue for a second and ask you this question because this was of all the things that we got in terms of the feedback here, this was related to the social contract. 30 year old man, recently divorced, saying here there should be a renewal of the social contract negotiated between men and women. I feel like I'm not going to get enough time with my kids and frankly, I would like equal access. If we're really being honest, the court system is skewed towards women. I'm 30 years old and I would really like to see my kid as if I were married. What are your reactions to this? Both Scott and Anthony. So I'll start. I felt that during my divorce, you know, I felt like, oh my God, I've become the uncle. When I don't want to become the uncle, I want to be the parent, I want to be the dad. But I felt like I've become the uncle. I'm not really sure what we can do about it, but I did feel that. Scott, what are your thoughts on that?

[Scott Galloway]

I have a lot of thoughts here. I have a friend whose wife left him and he has at the time I think they were 12 and 14 year old girls and she's moving to Wisconsin. And when he shows up on the weekends, the kids kind of, they love him but they want nothing to do with them. They got their own lives. So he's basically lost his kids. And because the reality is they're teenagers and they're selfish and they want to hang out with their friends, not go to some forced dinner and try and have fun with dad for 48 hours at a time. So we have a tendency to demonize the dad in a divorce and assume it's always his fault and sanctify and say that the mom is the victim. And divorces can be so emotional and so angry on both sides that oftentimes the parents will weaponize their kids against each other. My mom used to tell me when I was eight years old, when my dad was picking me up for his weekend, a she wouldn't come outside, she wouldn't walk me outside because she didn't want to see his car. That's how much she hated him. And then she would say, I would deliver messages and this is not an exaggeration. Tell your father that if he doesn't pay this child support in the next 48 hours I'm calling his company and telling them he's a deadbeat. And I would digest my stomach as an 8 year old all weekend having knowing I had to tell my dad that I'd deliver the message on my way home and my dad would say, tell your mom I'm not sending the child support. And things have changed. I think parents are more self aware now, but there's so much emotion and anger that it's hard not sometimes to weaponize the kids. And also I was guilty of thinking because my mom was taking care of me that she was a saint and my dad was the bad man. And so whoever ends up with the kids and 92% of the time it's the mom, you have an obligation to that kid's mental health to distinctive how wrong do you feel or how angry you are to create a healthy environment for the kid. And family court is starting to get a little bit better in the sense that they're now moving. If you have the money that there's one house the kids stay in and the dad and the mom rotate in and out of it and they're doing better about the not immediately going to sole custody for the one who has ovaries and saying if both are capable parents, they should be open to the idea of joint custody. And if you have the resources, we're going to have one house and the mom and the dad are going to rotate through. Because the key to being a good parent is I believe the garbage time. And that is what you lost with your kids was when you're living with your kids. I've always been up for being their Uber driver because those moments of father son synchronicity come when they're not looking at you on your way to school and you lose all those moments when dad is no longer living in the house. So I think family court needs to change. I think parents need to make more of an effort to realize this isn't about their anger, but raising kids who need, who need parents, and especially boys really need the involvement of their father. If there's one moment that you can reverse engineer to a boy coming off the tracks that when he loses a male role model through either death, abandonment or divorce, at that moment that boy becomes more likely to be incarcerated than graduate from college. So parents need to step up. Men need to step up and make hard decisions around their careers to be close to their kids. Family court needs to be, needs to change. And also we need a zeitgeist that all right immediately in divorce, it doesn't mean the dad's the bad, the bad person here. And they both may want to be involved in the kids lives. And the parents have an obligation to work together to make sure that distinctive who was working wronged or how angry you are that the kid can grow up in an emotionally secure environment with the involvement of both parents.

[Anthony]

It's so well said. And to me, I mean, look, I made a lot of mistakes in my life, but the quantity time versus quality time. Here's a message I would say to this young man and other people that are going through this. I don't think there's any such thing as quality time, Scott. I think there's quantity time. That's right. And I think you got to get it in your mindset to make the extra effort. Be the Uber driver, go see the kid at the game, even if you're sitting in left center field, but he knows that you're there. That's the thing you have to do. And I always tell people that. And the other thing I say, and I think you agree with me on this, your kids are half of your spouse. So you can't on your spouse to your kids because your kid is half of them. And so when you're, you're shitting on your spouse or your kid, you're attacking half of them, literally. You have to think about it like that. So keep your mouth shut, do the work. And you know, and I, you know, listen, my, my, my grandfather and my father didn't take to this, Scott. But I used to say to them, hey, I didn't choose to be born. You're the people that put me here. They didn't like that, Scott. They were old school. Okay. They didn't like.

[Scott Galloway]

You owe us. We brought you here.

[Anthony]

Right, Right. Exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

The best of you tripped down my leg, you little shit. Anyways, sorry about that.

[Anthony]

Exactly. Well, you got it. So I want to keep going here, but some of these things are really good. Shannon sent us a question. I got, I got into this podcast and my question is, I have two boys and one girl. They're all at the same elementary school. The school has after school programs for the girls. We have charities like Girls who Code, Girls who Run. I get why the school accept these, because they're free. But my son wants the run and he also wants the code. But guess what? There's no program for him. I found an online coding class for him and my husband jogs with him. But it's not the same thing. He's losing that communal effect of being around People his age, how do I raise my son to not resent his sisters and women in general, when at age 8 he's already noticing things like this? And it's a lot of what we've talked about, Scott. So I wanted to pick that one out as a central question for us.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, first, I think it's important to educate our kids about the historical injustices I don't believe in. I think we got to celebrate our incredible victories, pushing back on fascism, that we have made enormous strides here, but there's just no getting around it. When you and I were younger, there was so much disproportionate advantage crammed into 30% of the population, specifically white heterosexual males, that I think to say to your 8 year old, you know, men just had it so much easier than women that there's been a lot of really wonderful programs to help level up non whites and women. And some of those are these programs and these are wonderful things. But also just on a, just to give some, you know, your kids some historical context that women have had it tougher, they need it, they, your dad had it much easier than your mom, and this is why. So these programs are direct outcropping of that. And it's okay for people to want to be part of a group where they feel more safe, whether it's people with their same sexual orientation, their same ethnicity, or the same gender. Having said that, what this woman is describing is so prevalent in our society. Anthony, if you walk down the halls of NYU Stern, there's women in consulting, there's Golden Seeds, women in venture capital, there's Go Girl, black women in investment banking. You don't see any support groups for men. I mean, you just don't see them aa.

[Anthony]

Scott, you know I said that somebody support aa.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but it's not AA for men, it's just aa. Right, I know. And to go to a darker subject, supposedly so the president of NYU is this really impressive woman named Linda Mills. And her background, her domain expertise, is in domestic abuse. And I think she told me somewhere between 30 and 50% of domestic abuse is levied against men. A man on man or a woman on man? How many battered men's shelters are there in the U.S. they just aren't. And so the capital around support groups for men is dwarfed by the wonderful support groups for different special interest groups. And I'm not suggesting in any way those things aren't wonderful. We need to acknowledge the wonderful progress we've made about around some of 60% of Harvard's freshman class are non white. That's outstanding. There are now supposedly more women in the workforce now than men. Awesome. More women, single women own homes than men. That's a huge victory, a collective victory. Let's take a victory lap. Let's do nothing to get in the way of that progress. But at the same time, is there an opportunity for more programs through churches, through non profits, through schools to give men a safe place to be vulnerable and talk about their very real problems? Because there is an enormous void and gap around help, especially for young men. It's just barely even there.

[Anthony]

I mean, yeah, I mean, this is why we're doing this. Just raising the awareness and getting one school administrator to say, hey, you know what? That is true. And maybe we need 8 year old boys to do coding or do running and set up a group that creates a little bit more symmetry in the situation. This next question is about masculinity, Scott, and the definition of masculinity. And so, and I'm going to paraphrase the question and get your reaction, guys, I've listened to every one of your episodes. I think there is a masculinity crisis, but it's twofold. It's not just a lack of support, but it's also a lack of definition and the ambiguity of, of masculinity. Because masculinity can be many things to many people and yet there are external definitions. I fear as a result of the absence of healthy masculinity, we get some toxic masculinity influencers out there that our young people are gravitating towards. If you agree with that, what would you recommend a solution would be? And if you disagree with that, please tell me why.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think about this a lot. I'm writing a book on masculinity called Notes on Being a Man. And I think that everybody needs, every young person needs a code around behavior to help guide them through the thousands of difficult decisions they have to make almost every day. And some people get that code from their religion. Some people have such strong parental role models. They get that code there. They can get that code from the military. Some people get that code from their work. There's a lot of different places to get the code. But I would say a lot of young men struggle to find that code that they can hold on to. And I'd like to think that a positive, aspirational vision of masculinity could serve as a code for young men who have, are born, Most of them, 95% of people are born binary. And it's not to take anything away from the 5% who are born non binary. But if you're a young man and you feel certain behaviors are easier for you, then you want to lean into them in a productive way. And I think that is what I'd call the masculinity code. And that code for me is the following. And I struggle with this because it's difficult to thread the needle around or between having something aspirational that doesn't come across as in any way not recognizing and continuing to promote the ascent of women. And for me, it distills down to three words. Provider, protector and procreator. So provider, I think every man at the outset should assume he's going to at some point need to take economic responsibility for himself and his family. In a capitalist society where men are mostly still evaluated based on their economic viability. You just need a plan. That doesn't mean you need to be a baller, but you got to have a plan and assume that you're going to need to be economically viable. I'm not saying that's the way the world should be, but it is the way the world is now. Sometimes that means getting out of the way and being more supportive of your partner who might be better at this whole money thing. When we first had kids, my partner was working at Goldman Sachs. I was a professor. She was making a lot more money than me. So I tried my best to level up domestically and be home for bath time, get the kids out of bed. I just tried. I think a lot of the increase in divorce rates and dissatisfaction among men, among women, around men, is that while women have ascended professionally and economically, men aren't ascending at the same rate in terms of emotional or logistical support. But at the outset, as a dude, you need a plan, you need skills, you need certification, whether it's vocational programming or college or hard work to assume you need to be economically viable. I also think men should always pay for women. Women have a shorter window for procreation. Men get more benefit from relationships than women do. And so I think one way you level up and show that you're serious. Men have much less downside from sex than women. So women's time during kind of the mating years, in my view, is more valuable than men's and more scarce. And one way you show that you are serious is that you pay for everything. And I know how sexist that sounds, but I stand by it. And it's what I tell my boys. You need to be a provider. 2 protector. I think we got to train our boys that the most aspirational masculine jobs, whether it's military or cop or fire person, at the end of the day, they're about protection. And whether it's putting on a uniform and protecting your country, whether it's seeing anyone vulnerable and immediately moving to protection. It breaks my heart when I hear about women not feeling safe on the subway. We need a society where when a woman feels unsafe, she looks for men. She doesn't avoid them. And that has to be taught from day one. Men are stronger. They can overpower most women, which means their job is to protect women. And the whole point of prosperity is such you can protect others. And this is what I'm just so upset about to get be political about this transfer of wealth and this tax bill. What is the fucking point of prosperity and having all this money if we don't immediately move to protection? And this bill for me was exactly the opposite. All this prosperity again, being shoved into the most fortunate and taken away from the most vulnerable. But your job as a man is to immediately default to protection. And then the third thing is procreator. I think that sexual desire, wanting to have sex, wanting to mate, wanting to find a mate, wanting to have kids, is a wonderful fire that when channeled the right ways, can motivate you to be attractive, to dress well, to have a good rap, to be funny, to take risks and open, to endure rejection, to demonstrate excellence. I think that you should have that fire. And why I tell my young men to try and modulate your use of porn is that what made me a better man was I wanted so badly to have a girlfriend for a lot of reasons, but chief amongst them was I really. They liked the idea of having a lot of sex when I was 19 or 20 or 30, that I made myself into a better man. Women are attracted to men for really solid, good reasons. They need to be signal resources, they need to show intelligence, and they need to be kind. And all of those things, when channeled the right way, can turn you into a better man. So be horny. Want to meet women. But ask yourself, how do I become a really. I say to young men when I'm coaching them, would you want to have sex with you? Do you have a plan? Are you attractive? Are you working out? Are you kind? Are you good to your parents? Do you have great manners? Are you willing to go up to women and open and talk to them and endure the rejection? Do you follow up? So you know those three pillars of masculinity around Provider, protector and procreator. That's how I distill it down to what it means to be masculine. And we need to stop this bullshit conflation of cruelty and coarseness with masculinity. That is the exact opposite of what it being means to be a man. And unfortunately, the wealthiest man in the world and the President of the United States conflate or our society has conflated cruelty and cutting off medication to HIV positive mothers through USAID or canceling people's Medicaid or taking away their food stamps. That could not be less masculine. So masculinity is a wonderful thing. I'd like to think it could be serve as a code for men. We just need to define it in an aspirational, raw way and also get away from the politically correct bullshit. It's okay to be horny, it's okay to want to make a shit ton of money. It's okay to be risk aggressive and strong and physical as long as it's channeled in the right way. And wanting to be a masculine does in any way diminish the importance of femininity. The greatest alliance in history. I apologize, I'm ranting now, but the greatest alliance in history is not NATO. It's not us pushing back on the axis powers which were both incredible alliances. The most productive alliance in history is the alliance between men and women and each gender, courtesy of social media and this woke bullshit. And on the far right, blaming women for men's descent has created a fissure in the strongest alliance in history, and that is the alliance between men and women. The genders have managed, have done a great job of figuring out a way to convince themselves that it's the other gender's fault. Men want to blame their problems on women. No, thank God, women are doing well. Women say to a lot of women, say to young men, you don't have problems, you are the problem. Well, that's bullshit too. That's not helpful. Men and women need to recognize that the ultimate alchemy in society is a combination of male and feminine energy. And we need to restore that alliance and celebrate it. Young men need women right now. We need their empathy, we need their success. And men need to celebrate and be the afterburner and booster rocket on women's success. This is the greatest alliance in history and it needs to be restored.

[Anthony]

Well, I'll let you go there because I think it's so well said, but what do you say? Add a few more sentences or even a paragraph on the toxic masculinity movement, which you and I Both see, and is that just because we have a vacuum in what you and I would both call the healthy masculinity?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, to the far right's credit, they noticed the problem. They were the first to recognize that young men are struggling. They're not attaching to work, they're not attaching to school, they're not attaching to relationships. So they recognize the problem. It was the solution that came off the tracks. They started. They thought, well, let's just go back to the 50s where women are barefoot and pregnant and don't have the same economic opportunities as men. And that men are held up on some sort of pedestal and offered more opportunity. Well, that's not right. And then all this bullshit, the void was filled by these really unproductive voices basically trying to assert masculinity in the form of power over women. You know, I won't even say their names because I don't want to give them more oxygen or awareness. And quite frankly, I think that our president and some of the males we should be looking up to have are terrible role models. Elon Musk is being sued concurrently by two women for sole custody of their children because he hasn't seen these K kids. The president was found guilty by a jury of his peers of sexual abuse. And by the way, it might have been politically motivated to bring the case. But the jury decision included a jury of Republicans who, after seeing the evidence, said this guy was guilty of sexual abuse, taking away much needed aid from the most vulnerable. So the far right noticed it. It's their solution that's all fucked up. And then let me just be an equal opportunity hater. The advice from the far left to men who are struggling is act more like a woman. Well, that's just fucking stupid. That's not a solution either. So I think both parties need to acknowledge that masculinity is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't mean being cruel. It doesn't mean being coarse. And our society has to recognize that being cruel is not the point. That is not leadership. That is not what it means to be a man. So I think there needs to be new voices, and I'm hoping this happens on the Democratic side, who I'm coaching around messaging, that there's nothing wrong with leaning into your strength and being risk aggressive. There's this thing called the Carnegie Award that Richard Reeves brought to my attention, and they literally give awards to people each year who do the kind of burning car tests. And that is somebody who randomly puts their own life in danger to save someone else's. Life like running into the burning house. Last year they gave 81 awards. 76 were men. Men are much more risk aggressive. Lean into that. Be aggressive. That's a wonderful thing. That's a wonderful attribute. Be really fucking strong. Men have denser bone structure and more in superior double twitch muscle. And then we have this amazing thing called testosterone that pours over it and can turn a young man into a fucking monster. And then you use that monstrosity and that strength to protect people and to be more attractive. I think that there needs to be a recognition on the left that being a man and advocating for men in no way takes away from anybody else. And on the right, redefine masculinity. It is not. It is not. It is protecting people. It is being generous. So I think we have some real work to be done here. But I think that masculinity could I hate the term toxic masculinity. There's no such thing. Anyone who's toxic or mean is not masculine. That's like you don't hear the term toxic femininity. You don't hear the word toxic kindness. This needs to be injected with positive attributes that can serve as a guiding light for young men who are looking for a code.

[Anthony]

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[Scott Galloway]

We need to starch the zeitgeist from society where you and your parents have failed. If you're one of the two thirds of kids that doesn't end up with a traditional four year degree. There's different ways to make a living. Unfortunately we don't illuminate that path in America. 11% of LinkedIn profiles in England and Germany say apprentice. It's only 3%. We don't have an apprentice culture. So we need a more vocational programming and we need to stop shaming people who want to go make $120,000 a year by learning to install energy efficient heaters. And we had someone on to talk about that. One of your buddies.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

At the same time I do think, Anthony, that a lot of people are trying to rationalize how angry and upset they are at my industry for artificially sequestering good kids from college or affordable college like you and I had. I got through UCLA. UCLA, 74% admissions rate $7,000 total tuition for five years of undergrad and two years of business school, total tuition $7,000. And I think so many people are so upset and so angry that their kids may not have that access that a little bit they're telling themselves a lie that oh, with AI college won't matter. If you are in a position, if you are blessed with the resources and the opportunity to go to college, I would always recommend you do it. And it's not only just for learning, it's for the certification which our society still values. It's an opportunity to season emotionally. It's a great experience. It's an opportunity to make friends, meet mentors, find mates. College is still an outstanding value add for a lot of people. At the same time, 2/3 of our kids don't get degrees and we have to have more illuminated paths for them to a middle class and stop shaming them. So I'm of two minds here. What are your thoughts?

[Anthony]

Yeah, well I, well I grew up with these, you know there are 19 children. My dad is from a family of seven, my mom is from a family of three. Those 20 people married. Sorry, those 10 people married. 10 people, 20 people got married. They made 19 children. Okay. So you know, some people had, some people had a lot, blah, blah. But of the 19 of us, there's two of us that went to college. Everyone else did not go to college. And most are doing quite well in different trade professions and different schools. And I get one of my best friends from college just sold his plumbing company. He had five or six trucks out there. He built it over, you know, 40 years, sold it for $22 million.

[Scott Galloway]

Wow.

[Anthony]

Is he gonna be the Wall street titan, Steve Schwartzman with $20 billion? No. But can you live a great life on $20 million? Of course.

[Scott Galloway]

That's pretty good.

[Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You and I know that. I mean, I know that. And so to me, I don't think we have to overly put pressure on ourselves. I think we have to get our mindset right. You know, you can be Scott. What I love about you, if I put you in a white T shirt and a six pack of low quality beer and I gave you a baseball game or a football game, that's how I grew up. So of course I'm happy I have to return to that. That's what I would do. And I think we got to get out of the mindset. The comparative mindset, I think, is something that really hurts us. And so. All right, two more. Is it really okay to fail? I have found failure in my life to be very demoralizing. And it's hard for me to even admit the mistakes that I have made. But you guys make it seem easy to fail. But is it really okay?

[Scott Galloway]

One of the wonderful things about our country is not that we embrace failure. That's bullshit. But we tolerate it. One in seven businesses succeed, so I started nine. And most of my businesses have either gone sideways or failed. But in America, as long as you're a good person, you try hard, you treat your investors well, you communicate regularly, you're good to employees. Sometimes the timing's just not there. I started an E Commerce company at exactly the right time. Got into war with my venture capitalist. Excuse me, Got into a war with my venture capitalists. And the thing ended up going through a restructuring in 2007. And after 10 years, I lost everything. I thought I was going to be a billionaire from that. That was hugely devastating and disappointing. I started an E Commerce incubator backed by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Maveron Howard, had everything going for it done within six months because of the DOT bomb implosion. A lot of your success and a lot of your failure isn't your fault. So when you succeed, be humble because you got lucky. But when you fail again, mourn and move on. And recognize that if you don't take big risks in the United States, you're not taking advantage of one of the amazing things about our culture. In our culture, we have bankruptcy laws that are meant to give companies and people a second chance. If I had been raised in Europe, I don't know if I could have Started nine companies and had four go out of business and still raise money. America, you know, Southwest Airlines, get on Southwest, go to Vegas, divorce, want to start over, go to Las Vegas and be a dealer. We love second chances here. I have had a lot of failure in my life. I know you have, but if you don't take risks. Let me go anthropological here. For the majority of time on our planet, our species, if they took risks, ended up dead. If you got a bad cut or a broken bone, for most of the our history on this planet, you ended up dead. If you came across somebody late at night and you had money or something and they were bigger than you, in primitive times, they might murder you. There was a lot more downside to risk. So as a result, our species overestimates the downside of risk and underestimates the upside. The amazing, or one of the amazing things about the United States is that we don't embrace failure, but we tolerate it. And most people who are successful have moved through that failure to get to success. I know that happened to you and it happened to me. So, no, it's not easy. But surround yourself with good people and realize the majority of successful people have had real failures. That's okay. You're going to be fine. The embarrassment, the humiliation, whatever you feel, all the people you know, you're thinking about your success and failure a lot more than other people. People go, oh, Anthony's business failed. That sucks for him. And then they go back to thinking about themselves. And as long as Anthony's a good guy and honorable, if he has another really good idea where I could make money, I'll still invest in him. So it's not easy, but it's doable and it's a wonderful feature of the American culture.

[Anthony]

Amen. I think it's very well said. Okay, this is the last one. Scott parents a woman writing in, she says she's a clinical psychologist, loves the podcast. She says, I do think you guys need to give more attention to the key role parents play in affirming and encouraging young sons in my practice. Without giving up confidences in my practice, I do feel that there are many young sons that just don't have any structure or guidance. And this goes back to what you said, Scott. I don't know if you. You would remember that. I don't know if they played this in California. There was a great. I used to watch it when I was four or five years old. It was a great ad. It was a 32nd AD. The father was washing the car with the kid. And the kid was helping him wash the car and he was smoking. He was smoking. And the title of the thing or the narrator was saying like father, like son. Do you remember this ad? If you don't remember the ad, I'm gonna text it to you maybe and I'll certainly put the link to the ad on the, on the, on the YouTube and the podcast website. But, but it's a, it's just totally true. Like, you know, it's, it's not what we say, Scott, it's what we do.

[Scott Galloway]

100.

[Anthony]

You know, my, my, my son said to me once, well, dad, you just get up and go to work. I have to get up and go to work. Right. You know, and so what are your reactions to that? And then want to close this out?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, if you look at the increase in teen depression or young adult depression, Gene Twenge and my colleague Jonathan Haidt have done some good work. And it's kind of the two biggest factors they've determined and they did real solid peer reviewed research are one, we talk about social media a lot. The comparison, the 24x7 high school cafeteria that you never get to escape. But also concierge parenting and bulldozer parenting where we use so many sanitary wipes on our kids, on our kids lives that they don't develop their own immunities. And I've seen it firsthand at nyu. A kid comes to nyu, gets his heart broken or his first D and literally freaks out. I had a lot of failure in calluses by the time I got to college. So a lot of it is parenting not only about being around and being a good role model, but also quite frankly, letting your kids fail a little bit. And I watch my kids fail and I want to step in and I want to call the teacher and cajole them into giving them an A instead of a B. And I don't and you shouldn't, and letting them fall on their face, what have you. But yeah, there's no doubt about it. And this is such a complicated topic, parenting. And I don't know about you, Anthony, but there's nothing I feel more insecure around than my sons and my parenting. I just, I want so badly to be a great dad and sometimes I feel like I'm barely good and, and also struggling with, I don't know if you struggle with this. I want so badly to be my son's friend. And what I realized is what Michelle Obama said is so true. You're not their friend, you're their parent. And you need. You need to be an asshole to them sometimes, such that they're not an asshole later in life. And I hate doing that because I want to. I want to go to CrossFit and watch Dunkirk with them and high five them and, you know, and that's not. No, I gotta install that fucking custodial app on my son's phone because he's on TikTok all day and he gets into an enormous argument with me and hates me. And there's no way to distill this down to a few being present, treating their mom really well, because like you said, that they're gonna. They're gonna model that if you want your kids to have healthy relationship with women, especially your sons, then treat their mom really well in front of them. But you're right. At the end of the day, it's just modeling. You're, like you said, modeling good behavior and going back to what you said that. That garbage time.

[Anthony]

Amen. And by the way, you know, I just add this one quick thing. We're shooting in the dark. I think my wife, Deirdre, we brought her on. She's like, okay, I'm shooting in the dark. I'm trying my hardest sometimes, you know. Remember when you were getting hit? When I got hit as a kid, my mother said, this is hurting me more than it hurts you. I could never understand that until I was a parent. And then you're going to apply the discipline and you feel miserable about it. But. But listen, Scott, this has been an amazing experience for me to do this with you. This more or less concludes our limited series of Lost Boys. And I'm sure that Scott and I are available to all you guys. Tell us one more sentence or two about the book. When is the book coming out? And obviously, I'd like to get you on my podcast, Open Book, to discuss it. When are you having that book published?

[Scott Galloway]

That's generous of you, Anthony. It's coming out in September. And just a quick shout out to you and your team. This was your vision and you pulled together the resources. You're not making any money off of this. And this was a lot of effort and time on your part. I just showed up and start ranting. But you took finite resources from your company. This was your vision, your work, your effort, your guests, because you wanted to do something. So thanks for doing this.

[Anthony]

Well, listen, it could have never happened without somebody like you being a part of it with me. So I'm very grateful to you. There'll be more stuff from us, though, you know, we're going to put out a little mini curriculum. I'm going to ask Scott for some of his advice in putting out this curriculum. You can go to Lostboys Men for more information. There'll be lots of ideas and we're taking, we're incorporating a lot of your ideas. So please continue to send us your color commentary, your questions, and we'll have some resources up on our website for people. And again, we're looking forward to keeping this conversation going. And who knows, maybe at some point, maybe we'll even do some meetups for young men to think about how they can get, you know, get some reinforcement, some positive reinforcement about directionally, where they need to go. I needed it. Scott Galloway needed it. Guess what? We all need it. And so we want to be a part of that for you. And again, guys, thank you so much for taking tuning in. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Lost Boys. If you'd like more information, please go to our website, Lostboys Men. Be sure to, like, follow and subscribe to Lost Boys wherever you get your podcast. And please share it with someone who cares about this or should care about this. And let's spread the word. Lost Boys is a production of Salt Media and the Casablanca Strategy Group Group. Barbara Fedita and Keith Summa are executive producers. Tanya Saladi is our researcher, and Holly Duncan Quinn and Stanley Goldberg are our editors. Special thanks to Christina Kasese and Mary Jean Ribas and Drew Barrows.

[Scott Galloway]

Mom and dad, the school supplies you buy me this year will mostly end up in my mouth. Maybe shop low prices for school at Amazon so I don't eat up all your money. Just something to chew on Amazon, spend less, smile more.