What if the Iran war never really ends—but instead settles into a dangerous, permanent limbo? In this episode, Ravi Gupta sits down with former Deputy National Security Advisor Jon Finer to unpack the confusing reality behind Trump’s Iran strategy, the collapse of diplomacy, and why the world may now be worse off than before the war began. Together, they revisit the Obama-era JCPOA nuclear deal, debate whether any future agreement is still possible, and explore how America’s shifting foreign policy has damaged trust with allies and adversaries alike. It’s a sobering conversation about war, power, diplomacy—and what happens when no one can clearly define what “winning” even means anymore.

Jon’s podcast: The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

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