A Gay Lib and A Straight Conservative Debate Deporting Illegals | Talking with People

Summary

Podcast Summary: Louder with Crowder – "A Gay Lib and A Straight Conservative Debate Deporting Illegals | Talking with People"

Release Date: July 21, 2025

In this compelling episode of "Louder with Crowder," host Steven Crowder facilitates a thought-provoking debate between two guests: Brian, identifying as a gay liberal, and Stephen, a straight conservative. The central theme revolves around the contentious issue of deporting illegal immigrants, exploring diverse perspectives on immigration policy, its socioeconomic impacts, and the broader implications for American society.

---

Participants

• Brian (Guest): Represents a liberal viewpoint, emphasizing compassion, equality, and systemic reforms in immigration.
• Stephen (Guest): Embodies a conservative stance, focusing on law enforcement, economic costs, and national security related to illegal immigration.

---

1. The Cost of Illegal Immigration

Brian opens the discussion by challenging the notion that illegal immigrants are a significant financial burden on taxpayers. He states:

"[05:06] Brian: I personally am... the data I've seen hasn't seen shown that... immigrants can't get any tax benefits that the rest of us get because they're not allowed to sign up for health care, social services that we're allowed to sign up for and they only contribute taxes. So if anything, they're helping build the economy..."

Brian argues that illegal immigrants contribute economically without equally benefiting from taxpayer-funded services, suggesting a net positive impact.

Stephen counters by highlighting estimates of the financial strain:

"[07:08] Stephen: If illegal immigrants cost taxpayers over $400 billion every year... Let's split it and call it 350."

He emphasizes the substantial fiscal burden imposed by illegal immigration, referencing conservative think tank analyses.

---

2. Crime Rates Among Illegal Immigrants

The debate intensifies as Stephen brings forward concerns about higher crime rates linked to illegal immigrants:

"[21:45] Stephen: Do you actually believe that illegal aliens don't commit a higher proportionate number of crimes?"

Brian responds by questioning the validity of these claims:

"[22:16] Brian: From all the data I've seen, they [illegal immigrants] deny it."

The conversation underscores the polarization around statistics and perceptions of safety related to immigration.

---

3. Immigration Policy and Enforcement

A significant portion of the debate centers on effective immigration reform. Brian advocates for a humane and efficient system:

"[27:38] Stephen: So you were for building the wall and securing the southern border."
"[27:40] Brian: If that's what is going to help them and us best, yes, but if that's not what's going to help us."

He emphasizes the need for an expedited legal process, reducing wait times to discourage illegal crossings, and ensuring deportations are handled with due process.

Stephen insists on strict enforcement measures:

"[25:10] Stephen: It's pretty simple. It's seal up the border, which we have, and deport people who are here illegally. That's the only way to solve it."

He proposes robust enforcement as the sole solution to immigration challenges, rejecting more lenient approaches.

---

4. Media Bias and Public Perception

The guests delve into the role of media in shaping public opinion on immigration. Brian critiques mainstream news outlets:

"[30:12] Stephen: Do you think that the media is actually right-leaning and has been telling Americans that illegal immigration is a problem or would you at least concede that the media is left-leaning and has been telling Americans who have a problem with illegal immigration that they are racist?"
"[30:23] Brian: I think that's because that's why Trump was. I think you see both on both sides."

He suggests that media narratives disproportionately amplify immigration as a primary issue, potentially overshadowing other significant societal challenges.

Stephen strongly criticizes major news networks:

"[31:36] Brian: I think the problem is we let. We act like government funding is very. What's it called? Objective. But it's like, if you look at literally any insight into it, it's so obvious that people are put towards things that they just want..."

This exchange highlights mutual distrust in media impartiality, albeit from different angles.

---

5. Broader Socioeconomic Issues

Both guests acknowledge other pressing issues that intersect with immigration. Brian points to systemic problems:

"[23:38] Brian: So I would do that too if I was ice, but I just think that's so. Those people are not trying to do anything. They're just trying to live their lives."

He emphasizes poverty, healthcare inefficiency, and economic disparities as foundational issues that exacerbate the immigration debate.

Stephen aligns by recognizing the need to address these concerns:

"[24:27] Brian: I can't think of it right now, but it's like we're acting like it's the big issue. And I think it's because the media wants us all to think it's the big issue."

Both agree that focusing solely on immigration without tackling underlying problems is insufficient for comprehensive reform.

---

6. Ethical Considerations and Humanitarian Concerns

Ethics play a crucial role in the discussion. Brian advocates for compassion and due process:

"[07:18] Brian: So I say, even if that is all the... I personally still don't think, I think it would be a hot button issue that we should focus on, but I don't think the way we're going about it is correct still."

He underscores the importance of treating immigrants with dignity and providing fair legal pathways.

Stephen counters by emphasizing national security and morality:

"[12:38] Stephen: ...there are rape trees along the southern border where they put panties up there as trophies. They get enslaved where especially if you're a good looking younger woman coming over here off the books."

His points highlight severe humanitarian abuses associated with illegal immigration, advocating for stringent measures to protect vulnerable populations.

---

7. Proposals for Reform

Brian admits to lacking concrete solutions but emphasizes systemic overhaul:

"[27:38] Stephen: So you were for building the wall and securing the southern border."
"[27:40] Brian: If that's what is going to help them and us best, yes, but if that's not what's going to help us."

He calls for comprehensive immigration reform that balances enforcement with humane treatment and efficient legal processes.

Stephen maintains that strict enforcement is the pathway:

"[25:10] Stephen: It's pretty simple. It's seal up the border, which we have, and deport people who are here illegally. That's the only way to solve it."

He dismisses more lenient proposals, asserting that only robust border security and deportation can effectively manage illegal immigration.

---

8. Closing Remarks and Reflections

As the debate concludes, both guests reflect on the difficulty of bridging their ideological divides:

"[35:16] Brian: Brian."
"[35:31] Stephen: Thank you. Really great."

Their respectful yet passionate exchange underscores the complexity of immigration as a policy issue, revealing deep-seated beliefs and the challenges of finding common ground.

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Louder with Crowder" captures the intricate and often polarized discussions surrounding illegal immigration in the United States. Through the dialogue between Brian and Stephen, listeners gain insights into the multifaceted nature of immigration debates, encompassing economic implications, security concerns, ethical considerations, and the influential role of media in shaping public discourse. The respectful confrontation between differing viewpoints illustrates the ongoing struggle to formulate balanced and effective immigration policies that address both humanitarian values and national interests.

---

For more engaging discussions and debates on pressing political and social issues, visit Louder with Crowder and watch the video version of the podcast.

Transcript

[Brian]

We finally switched to T Mobile because.

[Stephen]

They know that those of us here.

[Brian]

And there want to stay well connected. Let's watch a movie charity thanks to.

[Stephen]

T Mobile we get Netflix included so.

[Brian]

We can all enjoy our favorite shows and movies.

[Stephen]

Quinta lista bacanissima perrojalari. Now the hard part is getting them.

[Brian]

To agree on a movie.

[Unknown]

Switch today and get a Samsung Galaxy S25 plus with Galaxy AI on us plus your plan prize is guaranteed for five years. Save today, guaranteed for tomorrow. Tap the banner to learn more or visit a store. Guarantees monthly price of contacts and data exclusions like taxes and fee supply. See exclusions and details t mobile.com welcome to paradise. The Platinum Card's 5 times membership rewards Points on flights got us here. Now let's make our trip next level Modest restaurant booked with rezi Unforgettable experiences Event access Endless vibes Late hotel checkout yes please Platinum card membership for a trip that's nothing less than iconic. Learn [e-mail] Explore Platinum terms and points cap apply.

[Brian]

I am of the belief that if we can help nine people and then one bad person comes in, I'm always worth help. Think it's worth helping those nine people?

[Stephen]

What if we know that if you said you9 have to stay in Mexico, we know that that one bad serial rapist, murderer, enslaver would be out of business.

[Brian]

But that. That we might know that, but we also don't know that. So I think if we do a process like yours where you're saying, hey, we're giving you these options, we're making it a lot more fair, a lot less cruel, I think that's better. I still think we need a lot more work on the side, but that is a significantly better system. But the problem is currently that's not what we're doing.

[Stephen]

But if I tell you that's the exact system, it's called the CBP1 app.

[Unknown]

Now, this summer, from LA to New York, from Seattle to Dallas, has seen a pretty loud and sometimes violent pushback to President Trump's immigration initiative.

[Brian]

Major developments during a second day of violent confrontations between protesters and federal agents who are out on the streets trying to round up undocumented immigrants.

[Stephen]

We are living through the divide of our democracy and you are making history. Get your ass put by a trans girl. Come on now.

[Unknown]

Even though the policy remains broadly popular, something the media may not tell you, it has spurred quite a bit of debate amongst the American public, which led me to ask this question, can a in all likelihood, let's be honest here.

[Stephen]

Gay, black, liberal, and a basic conservative.

[Unknown]

White guy have a productive discussion about ICE rounding up illegal aliens and shipping them back to their third world crap holes. Well, I'm about to find out. And you are about to see with Brian. This is talking with people.

[Stephen]

All right.

[Brian]

What's your name?

[Stephen]

Stephen. What's your name?

[Brian]

I'm Brian.

[Stephen]

Brian, yeah. Nice to meet you, Brian. Brian, do you live work in Dallas?

[Brian]

Yeah, I do. I live here and work here.

[Stephen]

Were you raised here?

[Brian]

Yeah, I was.

[Stephen]

You like it?

[Brian]

I do. I love Dallas.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Because a lot of people have been complaining about the bipolar weather lately today.

[Brian]

And I say the weather is horrible. But I just think if you live in Texas, you accept that as a given.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Just like how it is.

[Stephen]

Yeah. I guess one, some people are like, we're gonna leave. I'm like, wow. I was from Canada. We had negative 48 weeks.

[Brian]

Yeah. But I would rather have that. I personally. You can deal with the col. There's nothing you can do. If it's hot, there's genuinely nothing you can do.

[Stephen]

Have you ever spat into the air and watched it freeze before it hit the ground?

[Brian]

But I could deal with that. I could deal with that because at the end of the day, I could wear a giant puffer coat with this. What can you do? Cause even if I got naked, there's nothing I could do.

[Stephen]

No, there's nothing I can do. Plus, then you also have to be on a registry, so we don't have.

[Brian]

That's very true. Wouldn't want that.

[Stephen]

Do you know that before I get into anything else. Interesting factoid. When they find people who die stranded in the wilderness, did you know that almost all of them are naked?

[Brian]

Oh. Cause they try and stop being hot.

[Stephen]

It's just. They get. They panic.

[Brian]

Oh, I have heard about this. When you panic towards the end of your life, you strip all your clothing as it's like a momentary freak out.

[Stephen]

Yeah, exactly. And it's just. Which is probably the worst thing to do if you're in a jungle with mosquitoes.

[Brian]

But I mean, if you're gonna die, I guess I get it. I don't know.

[Stephen]

You're saving the coroner some time.

[Brian]

I guess at that point it makes their life easier.

[Stephen]

So, Brian, we're engaging people's temperature on issues of the day. Obviously in the news quite a bit, especially recently, immigration, ice, deportations have stepped up. What are your initial thoughts on that?

[Brian]

I'm personally very much against it. I think really a lot of that stands behind faith. I believe that all People that are here should be treated like equals. They'd be treated love and respect. And I just don't think first off, the way we're going about it is wrong. I think having people that are unidentified A lot of times people can't even tell that they're officers. I think that's wrong. I just don't personally think. We have so many issues going on in the world. My biggest issue is not the person who got into this country illegally.

[Stephen]

Well, what would be your bigger issue then? Because that's the biggest issue to a lot of in the recent election, right?

[Brian]

Yeah. But I personally am I that that's just the media that made that a bigger issue because I think things like environmental issues are a much bigger issue. The fight against prejudice in this country is a much bigger issue. Poverty that we're dealing with all over the world and in this country, the wars that we're engaging in, I think those are much bigger issues. Worrying about immigrants who honestly are just helping the economy and trying to do their best and just want to help their family, I don't think that's really a big deal. I mean, I don't personally care.

[Stephen]

Would would your opinions change at all if there was any new information like you said, they contribute to? I understand if you say because we want to be loving and your faith.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And I might disagree with the general precept, but I think it comes from a good place. But if illegal immigrants, for example, cost taxpayers over $400 billion every year, they're not contributing. There's a significant when you talk about poverty, that's a big reason for the.

[Brian]

Lack of personally, the data I've seen hasn't seen shown that because from what I've seen is that first off, immigrants can't get any tax benefits that the rest of us get because they're not allowed to sign up for health care, social services that we're allowed to sign up for and they only contribute taxes. So if anything, they're helping build the economy and they get little to nothing out of it except getting to be which totally understand the benefit of being in America. And you don't want to be in your country that may be violent, dangerous or just like you're impoverished there. So I understand it. If I was a parent, I would also want to bring my kid here where there's just better opportunities.

[Stephen]

I would, too. I agree. I definitely would want to bring my children here. I definitely think that there's a reason people want to come here. I think it's a land of Opportunity. I think it's the greatest country in the world. Let's say if. Because I know we.

[Brian]

But if I can work with you on that.

[Stephen]

If they were taking significantly more than they paid and even taking away the two to five times the crime rate, and that doesn't mean all immigrants, but that does mean when you can't know who's on the books, obviously you're gonna have more. The drug cartels run the border, but they can sign up for social services. They can use, for example, emergency rooms as medical care and then leave and not pay it. So it's even the most conservative estimate from liberal think tanks is 150 billion a year to 450 billion a year. Let's split it and call it 350.

[Brian]

Sure. I think if we accept all. Let's. I will engage because you engage with me respectfully. So I want to say engage with you respectfully.

[Stephen]

And I appreciate it, of course.

[Brian]

So I say, even if that is all the. I personally still don't think, I think it would be a hot button issue that we should focus on, but I don't think the way we're going about it is correct still. Because at the end of the day, first off, the government spends. I think we can all agree on both sides. The government spends money in terrible ways and so many other things on that.

[Stephen]

You will get no qualms from me. Yes.

[Brian]

And so I think there's tons of other things that we can look at and be like, hey, we're spending money here. Maybe we can focus on other things. Because I think if we had a better immigration system that made it so immigrants didn't have to wait up to 10 years in most cases to get into the country. I think a lot of immigrants would love to be like, no, I'll apply, I'll do the work and I'll get over here legally. I think the problem is the system is so hard and people want to get here so quickly because I mean, if my house was getting shot up and I didn't have the money to pay for my kids medicine or things like that, and the only way I had to get there was to illegally cross another country. But you're saying I have to wait 10 years, I would also skip the rules and I'd be like, no, I'm not waiting 10 years. Sure, my kid needs food, they need medicine. I don't want to be attacked violently. So I think, I do think it should then be an issue if we're saying it is spending all this money. I think That's a really big problem because then that money could be going to other Americans and to be helping our country. But I don't think at the end of the day, even if they are costing us money, I don't think that we should terrorize them in return. A big thing of my faith is we don't. Just because someone hurts you doesn't mean you hurt them back. You show them love and kindness in return and hope that transforms their heart. And so I would want to help them and be like, hey, we don't have to do these things. We can actually help you be better.

[Stephen]

Well, what would love and kindness look like as far as policy in dealing with. And I agree with a lot of what you just said, by the way. I definitely agree. Spending in inefficient ways. I definitely agree as far as, hey, look, if child was sick, yeah, I would lie, cheat, kill, steal, name anything to save their life.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Stephen]

But that doesn't make it someone else's duty.

[Brian]

I totally take care. And I think that's the biggest thing, is that I don't think me and you are on actually opposite sides of the aisle. We have the same values. It's just different ways of getting there. And I think the problem is the media, a lot of ways makes it seem like, oh, we're on complete opposite sides. But I don't think that's true. I think policy wise in terms of making that happen. I think first off, putting more money towards actually immigration reform, making it so people can do it quickly. So that way we know who's doing it the wrong way, we know who's doing it the right way. It makes it so much easier to section them out. We don't have to be like, oh, are you a bad one? Are you a good one? No, we just know, hey, you came here legally because it's a speedy, expedited process that's done correctly. Perfect. I think also making it so we're not just putting people in prison or deporting them back to their country, but rehabilitation programs. I'm a sociology major. We learn so much about how putting people in prisons, just punishing them for what they do actually doesn't help. Rehabilitation programs with showing them how to get better jobs, how to help their community, how to help others, that's so much better. It proves better for the economy, proves better for the safety of the community, and it just makes their own lives better. So I just think.

[Stephen]

I disagree with. It doesn't prove to always be better. I mean, if you look at New York, you look at California, but those.

[Brian]

Aren'T great examples because they're still living under US's laws and systems. We look at a country, there's two countries. I can't name them off.

[Stephen]

I think I'm probably thinking of Sweden and Norway.

[Brian]

I think so. Where they do a.

[Stephen]

It's like an IKEA showroom. They're presenting.

[Brian]

They do a rehabilitation program. And they've had much lower crime rates, much less violence, and a much higher recidivism. No, not recidivism rate. A lower recidivism rate, Lower recidivism rate, and a much higher rehabilitation. Because they're showing empathy. Because even when you're doing something bad, you don't necessarily. You're not doing it because it's bad. You're doing it for good reasons a lot of time. So when you show people, hey, you don't have to do this bad thing, you can do it in a good way. I think people want to do that because I believe that most people don't want to be bad people. They want to do the right thing. So I think if we give them opportunity, they will.

[Stephen]

So I. I disagree with that. Just again, being. I don't know what you're. I'm a Christian.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

I believe that we're all very sinful. We're born with a selfish nature. And if not for God, at least attempting to perfect, we definitely, absolutely revert to our sinful and selfish nature and don't necessarily look out for our fellow man. And that's why we need something outside of ourselves to teach us that.

[Brian]

I totally agree. I think at nature we are all sinful. But I think the great thing about that is God came. He died for our sins, and now his spirit lives in all of us. Regardless of whether you've asked for it or not, a piece of God lives within you. And then when you accept him into your heart, you are fully blessed and reborn, new in his spirit, in his life. And I think that piece of goodness you can see all over the world, even in places where there is so much evil, there is still good in people. People want to be loved. They want to be understood. They want to help one another. I mean, you look about thousands of years ago, before Christ was ever a thing, before anyone ever knew about him, people were still helping one another. They were still caring for one another. I think people want to be good people. They just don't know how to. And I think if we educate them, we show them love, we show them kindness that they will. And obviously There is still going to be evil. I don't think that will ever change. No matter who's in charge, no matter what happens, unless God himself comes back down. Well, at some point, at some point he will. But I think the end of the day, people want to be good people. And if we can give them the opportunity, they will. And I think that's a much, for me, a much better outlook than saying all of you are evil.

[Stephen]

Well, I understand the outlook and I do appreciate it. I think it comes from the right place. But if they're costing billions, hundreds of billions of dollars, and if it's two to five times the crime rate, and if we're at a point in this country where we can't know who's in, who's not, and it's a drain like you talk about on a tax break, potentially the single biggest source of fraud, abuse and waste that affects American citizens. And I do appreciate you being very respectful because sometimes people go, well that opinion's racist. People go, hold on a second. I'm a Latino American who believes that we should dep. Illegal aliens. There are a lot of them actually. They're supported overwhelmingly. Let me ask you this. When you talk about evil drug cartels.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

So probably the most cruel people on the planet and no one goes through the border unchecked by the drug cartels. Tom Holman, the director of ice, you know, the big bad boogeyman, he told me a story on my show where he said if these people knew, even people just seeking a better life for everyone, you see, he said, I've looked at bodies. He told me a story, he said, what changed my mind. We have to disincentivize illegal immigration because as long as it exists, you will have horrible people taking advantage. More slaves on earth than ever. Over 40 million told me a story of a 5 year old boy was in the back of, think of a horse trailer was left with an entire group of people to bake alive. And there were three witnesses who survived. And the boy was five and his last words were begging his father to not let him die because he wanted to see his mom again. And he found the father's body on top of the boy because allegedly some people thought if they dismembered him and threw his body parts up a small window, they could get saved. There are rape trees along the southern border where they put panties up there as trophies. They get enslaved where especially if you're a good looking younger woman coming over here off the books. So as we all know, right with the Drug trade, underground trade that's going to exist as long as there's an incentive. And having porous borders and not deporting people, not showing some kind of harsh punishment for doing it illegally, will keep them in power.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Is that perhaps something that you think maybe people don't look at?

[Brian]

Because I totally agree. I think that is something that's really, really important. But I think a counterpoint to that. I think all of what you said, very, very important. We need to. That's not happening because that's horrible. I think we should not be encouraging that. But at the end of the day, I am of the belief that if we can help nine people and then one bad person comes in, I'm always worth help. Think it's worth helping those nine people? Because I think, yeah, a lot of those people are going to be absolutely terrible. And we need to make sure that we have restrictions that make sure that doesn't happen. But nine of those people are just trying to come over and be safe. They don't want to do drugs.

[Stephen]

What if we know that if you said you9 have to stay in Mexico, we know that that one bad serial rapist, murderer, enslaver would be out of business.

[Brian]

But that, that we might know that. But we also don't know that you're saying. Are you saying if we know that for sure, you're saying. I'm saying if we know for a.

[Stephen]

Hundred percent we have incentivized the drug cartels right now with our borders with Mexico. And we know for sure that if we had, we have more secure borders, for example, we have far fewer terrorists coming in. And I know neither one of us want terrorists to come in. And we understand that not everyone is a terrorist. It's only a few hundred. But we can't know.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

But until we have some strict immigration laws and also make sure that people know, it won't be tolerated. The drug cartel will powered and they commit the most evil acts known to man.

[Brian]

And I think I do disagree on the fact that they can make the most evil acts to man because I think there's so much evil we have amongst. I will 100% agree with that. I think there's so much evil here in America. We can talk about some of the billionaires that hoard money are hurting people's lives. Like a lot of the healthcare CEOs that actively deny people getting the help that they need only because they want to meet the profits that they want. I think that's just as evil as selling drugs and killing people. On the street they're just removed from the kid.

[Stephen]

I don't think it's just as evil as raping a five year old in the capitol.

[Brian]

I don't think. But not all those drug cartels are raping people. A lot of them are just killing people which is horrible. I always.

[Stephen]

No, we're both anti killers.

[Brian]

Yes. But I think if I What is the difference between a CEO at the top of the I don't know, America building or whatever one of these buildings.

[Stephen]

Is called United Healthcare.

[Brian]

Yeah, United Healthcare. And he's saying oh you don't get to get the cancer money that you need in order to save your child. So now he has to die. I don't think there's any difference between him doing that and another person shooting a kid on the street. That is just as evil.

[Stephen]

He's just because I think they're both wrong depending on the context of the claims. And I do think insurance companies by the way especially since with the Affordable Care act under robot gave them a huge kickback where you had to accept everyone no matter the pre existing condition and they could hike premiums however they wanted. Right. So I think they made a killing and I absolutely think we have a flawed system now. I was raised in Canada where we have government health care. You're never going to see me advocate that.

[Brian]

No jealous of Canada not it's the.

[Stephen]

Worst country in the world.

[Brian]

Oh really?

[Stephen]

I've heard what we're doing right now you couldn't do in Canada.

[Brian]

Oh wow.

[Stephen]

You or me could be jailed depending on who's in power because speech is not free.

[Brian]

Oh well that's so I only had like one friend came to. They loved it. So maybe they have a biased perspective.

[Unknown]

Hey, if you like seeing these kinds of conversations outside of cable news, gotcha journalism and social media, let me know below. Comment and hit the like button or subscribe or really just tune into the daily show at 11am Eastern on weekdays. Let's continue on with talking with people or in this case possibly gay.

[Stephen]

Brian, even if we disagree, I will vehemently fight for your right to speak. Yeah, I told you're not allowed to.

[Brian]

Oh that's.

[Stephen]

They don't have freedom of speech and trying in their constitution. So it's. It's a very different place. But I put many family members on the ground for socialized healthcare so we have a flawed system for sure. And I think that a lot of these people are corrupt. I do think there's a difference. I know you're saying there has to be this is a theme where people say, okay, we don't want to be cruel. And I understand that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

What if there was a system, for example, if we could find some common ground, like, okay, if you're here illegally, because we don't know who's a criminal, we don't know who's a. We're gonna give you the ability to identify yourself, to self deport, give you the ability to go through the process, pay for a flight back to, and give you $1,000 to get started and come back legally so we have you on the books. Would that be something that would be. You'd be more amenable to.

[Brian]

I would definitely be more amenable. And I think that's the point of due process. And I think that's one of my biggest issues with these ice races, that all of them. Not all of them, that's the wrong word. So many of them I've seen have not been a form of due process. They've been taking people, they've been deporting them, and they haven't been a lawyer. So many of these kids who are like 5 years old only speak Spanish, are not even giving an English speaker English and Spanish speaking lawyer. I think that's terrible. I mean, how are they ever supposed to fight for their rights, get the help they need? So I think if we do a process like yours where you're saying, hey, we're giving you these options, we're making it a lot more fair, a lot less cruel, I think that's better. I still think we need a lot more work on the side, but I think that is a significantly better system. But the problem is currently that's not what we're doing. If I were to tell you that's.

[Stephen]

The exact system, it's called the CBP1 app. Okay. Right now every. So the ice is set.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

You do this, we'll give you $1,000 a flight home, we'll show you how to go back through legally. But if you don't and you make the taxpayer pay for us to find you and deport you, then we're going to do it.

[Brian]

But also I think that sets up.

[Stephen]

That is the system. Right.

[Brian]

Got you. But I think the problem with that, first off, then we go back. Okay, you got a thousand dollars, you're back in your country. Now you're going to have to wait 10 years to get back in this country. Probably maybe five if you get super lucky or something. So it's like, yeah, that's a kind of a good option. But not really. So I would be like, no, I'm not accepting that. I want. Maybe I can stay safe here in this country and just not commit crimes, do my own thing. I think a lot of people would also would rather choose that because I get ISIS saying that, but then they'll get supported.

[Stephen]

They've been given a choice. I don't think that's cruel.

[Brian]

I, I don't think it's. I do think it is cruel, though, because you're saying here we can deport you back so you can go back to this bad place with a little bit more money than you had when you first left, but not really in a much better situation because we're just sending them off. So it's not our problem. And I think as Americans, since we are, say we're the greatest country in the world, we have a duty as not only Americans, as Christians, to go out and be like, I'm gonna help as many people as possible. And so I think.

[Stephen]

Do you think people in America need help?

[Brian]

I do, but we're not even helping our people.

[Stephen]

Do you think we'd be able to help them better if maybe we didn't have a drain of illegal immigran?

[Brian]

I think there's a lot of other things before that. I think there's like 20 other things I could list before we get to.

[Stephen]

I think there's a. And I would, I would probably agree with you a lot as far as making government more efficient, but that's one of the biggest line items I, I especially suppressing wages.

[Brian]

One of the big. From all the data I've seen, it is a line item. I am never going to say it's not one, but I think it's just so much lower than we actually say it is. Also, so many of the illegal immigrants that come into this country are not even from Mexico. They're from European countries. They also bring just as many drugs over. They're causing a lot of more crimes. A lot of the Mexican. That's not accurate, actually, from the data.

[Stephen]

A lot from South America, yeah. But not many Europeans.

[Brian]

From what I've seen, the highest percentage of illegal immigrants are actually from European countries. They overstay their visa. They come for just random reason. But they are actually the highest percentage of illegal immigrants that I've seen. From what I've.

[Stephen]

They're a higher percentage of visa overstays because many of them go through the legal process. And I would deport them too, but.

[Brian]

But I'm just saying I deport every.

[Stephen]

German, but every cocky German who tells us that our cars are.

[Brian]

I love that you're consistent across the board. I can work with that. But I'm just saying I don't think a lot have these. A lot of these immigrants, all they want to. They want to come here, I would argue to say, and I would really put money on it. 7 out of 10 are just coming here to make money, contribute to the economy, make their family happy and safe, and that's really it. They don't want anything else. They want to do what every other American is. Because America is a place of immigrants. There's people that came here, they said, I want to live the American dream. I want to make my family happy, and I want to make them safe. And that's all I want to do. Now, three out of those 10 are coming to do crimes. I completely agree with that. But also, three out of those 10Americans that already were born here, were just lucky to be here, are. Are also probably committing horrible crimes. So I think we can't. We act like they're.

[Stephen]

Do you actually believe that illegal aliens don't commit a higher proportionate number of crimes?

[Brian]

From all the data I've seen, they deny it.

[Stephen]

Yeah. It's absolutely irrefutable. And I can tell you because I'm familiar with the data you're talking about. The data that you're talking about either comes from one of two sources. Either all immigrants. Immigrant, immigrant, immigrant, immigrant. They would be included in that. People who've come here legally, or one case study from a population of Texas. When you actually do every single legitimate study conducted, looking and isolating for illegal immigration immigrants at large, the lowest you'll find is twice as likely, as high as five times as likely.

[Brian]

I haven't seen that, so I can't speak on that.

[Stephen]

So here's when I was doing this one time, and I say this because I think you're an empathetic person. There was a lady who came up, we had to blur her face.

[Brian]

Got you.

[Stephen]

Because she was an immigrant and she lived in an area where there were a lot of illegal immigrants and they terrorized her, and she could never call the cops, and they were controlled by drug lords. And she said, what can I do to report? Because if I do, they're gonna go after my family.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

So I think it's actually, my perspective is, first off, I don't think that we're morally required to take care of world, but I think it's cruel when you create actual victims through a porous border and incentivizing criminality until we fix that, I don't think you realize the consequences for the people who are here living under the terror of those three out of ten. They take control of the whole.

[Brian]

I understand from what I've seen, I just haven't seen anything support that. So it's hard for me to make an. Give you an opinion on that because everything I've seen has been the opposite of that. Not opposite, but it just. They're not doing more crime. They're really just kind of being here. And also so many of these ICE raids, they're collecting people that are going to immigration like they're going to their. What's it called, court hearings for their immigration and they're collecting them there. They collected people at the Home Depot. They were trying to go to the Dodgers game.

[Stephen]

That was. That didn't happen.

[Brian]

I saw pictures of it.

[Stephen]

What if I were to tell you that was a myth? They were changing a tire in the parking lot.

[Brian]

I saw pictures of them trying to.

[Stephen]

What if I could. I could bring up a phone.

[Brian]

I'll take up the Dodgers one. I'll take off. I'll take it off.

[Stephen]

And all the other ones do. But the Dodgers is one that I can.

[Brian]

The other ones, I've seen the videos of them.

[Stephen]

I'm sure they picked up some at Home Depot.

[Brian]

They've done it.

[Unknown]

So I would do that too if.

[Brian]

I was ice, but I just think that's so. Those people are not trying to do anything. They're just trying to live their lives. I just think at the end, the day of. Of the day, there are so many other issues that are so much more important than immigration. I don't think immigration is something that we should ignore. I do think it is an issue. It costs us a lot of money. It probably costs us. Even if I agree with your point, it costs us a lot of safety issues.

[Stephen]

Sure.

[Brian]

I think there are so many. Poverty is one of the biggest. If we could fix poverty, so many of our crime issues would be automatically fixed. I mean, poverty is one of the number one things that reason people commit crimes because they just don't have money. And so I think we could fix poverty, fix homelessness, fix food insecurity. I think we would automatically make things better. And so while we're focused focusing on immigration, I just think that's a. What's the word where you my. Act like something. No, no, there's a word where you act like something. Is the issue in order to fix something.

[Stephen]

False equivalency, maybe.

[Brian]

I can't think of it right now, but it's like we're acting like.

[Stephen]

You're very articulate. It's hot. And I, believe me, I'm losing my words. I know. So believe me, I get it. I miss words on the panel.

[Brian]

I just think we're making it seem like it's the big issue. And I think it's because the media wants us all to think it's the big issue. Because at the end of the day, if all of us came together when we're like, no, we deserv to not be able to, we deserve to not have to worry about poverty, about health care, about food insecurity, I think all of our lives would be better. We'd be in a better place to help them, we'd better place to help ourselves, and then we would have significantly less issues. So I just think, yes, immigration is an issue. I think it is something that needs to be fixed. I don't know the exact way to fix it. I'm not an expert on it. So you probably, you've done a lot more research. You might have better ideas.

[Stephen]

It's pretty simple. It's seal up the border, which we have, and deport people who are here illegally. That's the only way to solve it. And I understand where you're coming, and I agree. Now, we would disagree on that, the solutions with those. But here's the one thing is everything you're talking about fixing, I would assume, costs a lot of money, right? Poverty. The difference here is we're talking about saving money, not spending. We're talking about cutting out a major expense that Americans who may be poor, who may be struggling, shouldn't be incurring anyway, both legal immigrant Americans and native porn.

[Brian]

That's the beginning. I totally understand that. But then it's hard for me to accept that when then it's like, okay, Trump just threw a. What's it called? Multi million dollar Marine. What's it called? Marine and military parade. That money could have gone to helping Americans. We've done. But he also spent a lot of that money. He's redesigning the White House front. White House front lawn to make it a Mar a Lago patio. That money could be used to help Americans. There's so many other things that also could be used to help Americans that we're not focusing on. So in my head, it's hard for me to look at that and be like, we need to fix this, but we're not fixing any of our own stuff. So I think, yes.

[Stephen]

Let me ask you this. I'm trying to find a good point to leave on because I know it's hot. How about since you're saying, okay, find stuff that might cost a few thousand dollars. You're talking about a patio. The parade was funded by other companies.

[Brian]

I saw.

[Stephen]

It's not 400 billion.

[Brian]

It's not 400 billion. I'll agree with that.

[Stephen]

Would you agree with, okay, if you are here illegally and you've been taking Social Security or Medicaid or any. You're good, you're off. None of you here illegally should be able to get any of that.

[Brian]

Oh, I'm here illegally? I don't think you should be able to get government assistance. Okay, but I think that's a problem. I agree with that. But I think the issue with that is I say yes, but because then it's like, once again, I go back to the issue of people that want to come here legally, but it is like the most grueling, hard, intense process to even try and do that. So I think if we fixed the immigration system, made it more efficient, and then said, hey, if you're here illegally, you don't get these things, I would be 100% with you. I would say, yes, you should not be getting these things if you've done a bad way because we've made it so easy for you to do it the right way.

[Stephen]

Yeah, but then that's just saying, okay, let's. Let's just basically legalize crime.

[Brian]

I don't think that's.

[Stephen]

If they're here illegally, it's like, yeah, well, why. So should we deport people here illegally?

[Brian]

I don't think. I think the problem with that is, though, you're saying, let's just deport the people here illegally but reform immigration.

[Stephen]

But we need to deport people here illegally.

[Brian]

I think we need to immigration first. That needs to happen way before we deport people because we need to stop. You can't. I think you need to stop the plug, like this plug of issues before you start fixing.

[Stephen]

So you were for building the wall and securing the southern border.

[Brian]

If that's what is going to help them and us best, yes, but if that's not what's going to help us.

[Stephen]

But did you support it when that was what he.

[Brian]

No, that's not what I supported. But that's also. I was like, what, like 16 when that was happening.

[Stephen]

So you couldn't vote.

[Brian]

So I wasn't like, I wasn't super knowledgeable on everything that was happening.

[Stephen]

Anyways, I thought the Iraq war was a good idea. When I was 15 years old. So believe me. Right. Yes.

[Brian]

And so I just, I think it's not that I don't think that's a problem. I think crime is a problem. I think those drug people that are bringing in drugs are a problem. I think if they're terrorizing that lady, that's 100% an issue and people need to be focused on that and worrying about that. But I think the issue is that's not the biggest issue and that's not the. That's a symptom. It's not the source of the problem. The source of the problem is the fact that we haven't created a good system of government to help people that are trying to come in and the people that are already here. And I think once we fix those systems, we have so much easier time fixing those other things.

[Stephen]

I just, I'm not hearing a solution from you on what to do with people who are here illegally.

[Brian]

The problem is I don't have a solution. I just have. I know because I'm not. Immigration is not my. What's the word? Interest. I have a lot of other you want to ask me about.

[Stephen]

But it affects the average American on a day to day basis more than any other issue outside of potentially natural disagree with poverty.

[Brian]

Affects the average American.

[Stephen]

Well, Americans connect to. Right. If you look at this last election, the top issues were the economy and inflation.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Stephen]

Which have been radically better in the last few months.

[Brian]

I would disagree with that.

[Stephen]

Absolutely better. And then immigration. In other words, you, you may not like that. That's a top issue for Americans.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

But that's okay. It is. And so it is incumbent. And this is why I think there is a disconnect. And I do think, I would imagine you're more left and I'm more right.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

It's incumbent upon the left to not ignore those people, to speak to those people. And they're saying biggest issue is immigration. And then you're not, you're not. I would say you're not an outlier. The left offers no solutions other than complete amnesty.

[Brian]

But that's also because I don't have the information on immigration.

[Stephen]

You have more than Kamala Harris.

[Brian]

That's why she was not disagree with that.

[Stephen]

Oh, you're much smarter than Kamala Harris. She's barely walking upright. She's an idiot.

[Brian]

But I would disagree with that. I think the thing is, first off, a lot of people think that's the biggest issue because that's what we've been told is the biggest issue. If I Told you for the last 18 years of your life, the biggest issue is, I don't know, khaki pants. Khaki pants. Then you would think khaki pants are your biggest issue. But actually you may have a wasp on your arm that's stinging you over and over and over again. But I'm not telling you about that. I'm telling you, no. The reason you're in pain is because of these khaki pants.

[Stephen]

I'm a white guy, so I always think khaki pants, like it's gotta be the Dockers.

[Brian]

Listen, they're a good go to. You can always. But I think the issue is the media tells us what to focus on and a lot of Americans aren't educated on what actually the issues are.

[Stephen]

Do you think that the media is actually right leaning and has been telling Americans that illegal immigration is a problem or would you at least concede that the media is left leaning and has been telling Americans who have a problem with illegal immigration that they are racist?

[Brian]

I think that's because that's why Trump was. I think you see both on both sides. I think you can look at, you can look at a lot of the.

[Stephen]

Problem is abc, NBC, CBSC and an msnbc, cnbc, all of them. Every single one with the. Except I mean every network with the exception of Fox News, who, by the.

[Brian]

Way, also disagree with that heavily.

[Stephen]

Okay, you think they were lean, right?

[Brian]

I think there's so many more also. First off, if you look at a lot of cnn, msnbc, a lot of those, they say they're left, but if you look at any of their messaging, it is not left leaning. It's actually very, very centrist. And it really doesn't. I've done a lot of the data and research on this. This was like part of my interest in hype in college. They're not nearly as left leaning as people think they are. It's just a virtue signal in a way that makes it sound like, hey, left people come here. But they're not actually left leaning. The right leaning. You know what? I'm proud of Fox News because they at least stick to their base. This is our people, we're gonna stick to it. I'm like, you know, at least you're actually saying what y' all believe in. Yeah, but the left, a lot of these other places, they're not actually left leaning. The actual left leaning people, often their voices are a lot more silenced. You don't get to hear a lot of these voices that are saying, no, we have ideas about how to reform this because they're shut down. Because we don't. A lot of people don't want those ideas because they're not the easy fix.

[Stephen]

Can you name me any conservatives on MSNBC or cnn?

[Brian]

They're not conservative by name. They're not going to say, I can.

[Stephen]

Name you about leftists, every single person. But you're going to Wolf Litzer, Anderson Cooper, Ana Navarro, every single. I mean, we could go through the entire lineup. Jake Tapper, Entenam, a lot of people.

[Brian]

I still don't watch those news sources.

[Stephen]

Because I just said the data.

[Brian]

Say that again.

[Stephen]

You said you say the data. So I thought. I'm just saying. I'm just picking. They're practical.

[Brian]

I'm just saying when you're naming people, I'm not going to be able to say yes or no on them. That's what I was saying.

[Stephen]

Well, we both agree they suck.

[Brian]

I agree. I think most news stations completely suck dog shit. I think they're basically all horrible because at the end of the day, most of them are owned by corporations that have their own agendas that want to tell you their specific things so that they can make more money. At the end of the day, I think we need first off more independent news sources that are backed by the people so that they can tell us the real truth, show us the real issues and show us how to actually.

[Stephen]

How would it be backed by the people? I don't know.

[Brian]

Taxpayer money. We could use the.

[Stephen]

Couldn't be worse.

[Brian]

Why do you agree with. Say that?

[Stephen]

I come from Canada. Canada has a cbc. You don't need to go to Venezuela. CBC is a Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Last election with Trudeau, you had one party member say, I'll give $100 million additional to the CBC. Trudeau said, I'll give 150 million. Guess who won. Guess who got the positive coverage. Government fund. That's called Pravda, my friend.

[Brian]

But I think the problem is we let. We act like government funding is very. What's it called? Objective. But it's like, if you look at literally any insight into it, it's so obvious that people are put towards things that they just want. I mean, the fact that lobbying is a thing is, to me, one of the biggest crimes in America. The fact that companies are allowed to pay money in order to influence politicians to do what they want. That's like 101, illegal. How do we not have that problem with that?

[Stephen]

I think we'd find some common ground there, especially for certain lobbying groups. You're like oh, there's so many and.

[Brian]

Like, or like super PACs that are like funding these campaigns for all these politicians and it's like the average American unions. Yeah. There's so many things that they're funding and it's like we can't, I can't give, I think it's, what is it, $2,000. You can't give over $2,000 to a candidate.

[Stephen]

You can give to a pack.

[Brian]

Okay, yeah, you can give more, but that's crazy that I can only give 2000. But if I want to give it to this pack, who's gonna secretly support or secretly support them, then I can give as much millions as I want. That's insane. That's the issue we should be focused on because those people are actually really changing the things in America, making things worse for people that actually need it. Companies that are in charge, the billionaires that are in charge that are funneling money away from the working American. That's the real issue, not the immig.

[Stephen]

Well, I think there's a reason that the billionaires in this country have pushed for open borders and illegal immigration because.

[Brian]

The interests are lined up, not most of the immigrants.

[Stephen]

Oh, more slaves on Earth. Yeah, we have more slaves on Earth than ever because they live on Musk.

[Brian]

They love indentured the most. The one of the highest.

[Stephen]

Elon Musk wants uncapped H1B visas.

[Brian]

He wanted that because it helps his company that once again he's doing something because it's going to help.

[Stephen]

I agree with you, Elon Musk. It takes both sides of the issue.

[Brian]

And I don't trust whatever he wants.

[Stephen]

I don't trust.

[Brian]

Oh I 100 but as far as.

[Stephen]

Billionaires, if you look at Bill Gates, you walk through, you look at even Elon, they open borders because they benefit from cheap labor.

[Brian]

Want to virtue signal to left leaning people?

[Stephen]

No, they better put them cheap labor.

[Brian]

They want to virtue signal to left leaning people, say hey, look at us, we're doing the good, nice left leaning things. But then on that behind the scenes they're doing everything they want. They're help doing things that help them build more money. I think we can both agree I don't want a government or corporations that do things that hurt the average American and make money money for them. I think the government and companies should be. They're made by people. They should be for people. Yes, but the problem is.

[Stephen]

Well I don't, I don't believe in communism and taking control of these companies but I believe in making sure. Yeah. Making sure they're not breaking the law, making sure they're playing by the rules.

[Brian]

Just that's the problem. The base of American system is great. It's just like we took it and went the wrong way with it in so many ways.

[Stephen]

I think. I think we can agree on that. And I think. I know it's hot and I have to get my feet.

[Brian]

Brian.

[Stephen]

Brian. Thank you, Brian. I really appreciate it. Brian, of course. Thank you so much for the great time.

[Brian]

I love that you had a respectful conversation.

[Stephen]

I really appreciate that. You do. That was probably the best one we've had all day. So something was going on.

[Brian]

I hope you have a great rest of life.

[Stephen]

Thank you, Brian. I appreciate it too. Get out of the heat. It's insane.

[Brian]

Thank you very much.

[Stephen]

Thank you. Really great.

[Brian]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

Well, what do you think about this conversation? Was it productive because it was civil? An exercise in frustration because facts kept missing each other?

[Stephen]

Let me know.

[Unknown]

Comment below. And stay tuned for the latest installments of Talking with People. Sometimes there's like a. There might be like a dog.

[Brian]

Love the flow.