Andrew Wilson Solves Feminism, Unpacks the Red Pill & Defines Gender Roles | Louder with Crowder

Summary

Louder with Crowder: Andrew Wilson Solves Feminism, Unpacks the Red Pill & Defines Gender Roles

Episode Release Date: May 7, 2025

In this compelling episode of "Louder with Crowder," host Steven Crowder engages in a deep and often contentious dialogue with guest Andrew Wilson. The conversation navigates through complex topics such as feminism, the red pill movement, gender roles, and the societal implications of shifting gender dynamics. Co-host Tomi Lahren also contributes, adding further layers to the discussion.

---

1. Introduction to Andrew Wilson and Key Concepts

[03:15] Steven Crowder:
Steven Crowder introduces Andrew Wilson, highlighting his presence in the manosphere and his critiques of feminism. Wilson is recognized for his roles in "Whatever Podcast" and "The Crucible" on YouTube.

[03:49] Andrew Wilson:
Wilson clarifies his stance, positioning himself as a Christian ethicist focused on politics. He distinguishes himself from the red pill movement and the manosphere, emphasizing his engagement in debates within these circles to understand and address their perspectives.

Notable Quote:
"The red pill itself is not actually an ideology. It's an idea of descriptors. And then there are ideologues, which we use the descriptors to back up whatever their ideology is."
— Andrew Wilson [05:39]

---

2. Defining the Red Pill and Manosphere

Wilson elaborates on the red pill as a collection of descriptors rather than a prescriptive ideology. He explains how different groups, such as pickup artists and men's rights advocates, interpret and utilize the red pill concepts to support their agendas.

[05:04] Andrew Wilson:
"Or another guy picks up this file and he's like, oh, well, this can help men with their dating."
— Andrew Wilson

Crowder relates this to earlier discussions on the show, drawing parallels with historical feminist movements and their impact on gender dynamics.

---

3. Gender Roles and Societal Duties

The discussion shifts to traditional gender roles, with Wilson asserting that men's primary duties are to protect and provide for women, while women’s responsibilities revolve around childbearing and maintaining the household.

[08:36] Steven Crowder:
Crowder challenges Wilson to define women's duties to match men's, pushing for a balanced view of gender responsibilities.

[09:54] Piers Morgan Clip:
A pre-recorded segment features Andrew Wilson debating Piers Morgan on the inherent duties of men and women, where Wilson criticizes Morgan’s stance on traditional masculinity and femininity.

Notable Exchange:
"What are the duties that women have towards men? What do men get out of this arrangement?"
— Andrew Wilson [09:17]

Crowder and Wilson discuss the implications of low birth rates and societal shifts away from traditional family structures, emphasizing the perceived negative consequences on civilization.

---

4. Historical Context and the Absence of Matriarchies

Wilson argues against the existence of matriarchal societies in history, contending that patriarchy has been the prevailing system across civilizations due to men's monopoly on force and governance.

[18:30] Andrew Wilson:
"There's never been a matriarchy in all of human history, ever."
— Andrew Wilson [19:35]

Crowder and Wilson critique progressive narratives that claim historical matriarchies existed, asserting that such claims lack substantial anthropological evidence.

---

5. Addressing Women's Happiness and Biological Differences

The conversation touches on studies indicating that women report lower happiness levels than men across various societies, regardless of conditions. Wilson links this to biological factors and societal expectations.

[21:11] Andrew Wilson:
"In a comparative analysis, they're always less happy than men. Always. So basically, it's just like, you just can't make women happy."
— Andrew Wilson [21:11]

Crowder introduces psychological perspectives, suggesting biological predispositions contribute to women's reported anxiety and worry.

---

6. Solutions to Declining Birth Rates and Societal Shifts

Wilson proposes two primary solutions to address declining birth rates:

1. Stop Emphasizing College for Women:
   He argues that industrialization has led women to defer childbearing, resulting in aging populations and lower birth rates.

2. Promote Traditional Virtues Through Propaganda:
   Drawing parallels to World War II propaganda, Wilson suggests top-down promotional campaigns to reinforce traditional gender roles and virtues, such as chastity for women.

[25:28] Steven Crowder:
Crowder echoes Wilson's concerns, emphasizing the unrealistic expectations placed on women regarding ideal partners and the impact on long-term relationships.

Notable Quote:
"We need top-down propaganda like you had in World War II... Just make the propaganda all about the family unit."
— Andrew Wilson [34:34]

---

7. The Role of Rhetoric and Logic in Debates

Wilson highlights the importance of logic and rhetoric in debates, criticizing opponents for resorting to ad hominem attacks when faced with logical arguments. He emphasizes the effectiveness of combining logical reasoning with rhetorical strategies to sway opinions.

[58:14] Andrew Wilson:
"So, bam. You smack them back. They lose their argument and their personal stance."
— Andrew Wilson [58:14]

Crowder relates his personal experiences, praising fatherly guidance in developing logical thinking and effective debate techniques.

Notable Anecdote:
"My dad taught me how to think... logic is intuitive anyway, but you can formalize it."
— Andrew Wilson [55:23]

---

8. Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

Both hosts share personal stories illustrating their approaches to logic and debate. Wilson recounts his father's fervent political discussions, while Crowder shares moments where logical reasoning influenced his perspectives.

[56:23] Steven Crowder:
Crowder appreciates his father's role in fostering his logical thinking, recounting a memory where his father challenged his drama teacher's political views.

---

9. Conclusion and Final Remarks

The episode concludes with Crowder and Wilson summarizing their viewpoints on the necessity of reinforcing traditional gender roles to stabilize society. They advocate for a return to virtues and structured societal duties as a means to address contemporary challenges related to gender dynamics and population decline.

[43:50] Andrew Wilson:
"Men, much, much harder. And here's what we have to deal with... the submerged propaganda."
— Andrew Wilson [43:50]

Crowder emphasizes the importance of dismantling misconceptions and promoting realistic expectations in relationships to foster healthier societal structures.

---

Key Takeaways

• Red Pill as Descriptors: Wilson distinguishes the red pill movement as a set of descriptors rather than a cohesive ideology, used differently by various groups within the manosphere.

• Traditional Gender Roles: The discussion underscores the belief in inherent duties of men as protectors/providers and women as caretakers and childbearers, arguing that deviations from these roles contribute to societal issues like low birth rates.

• Propaganda for Virtue Reinforcement: Wilson proposes utilizing top-down propaganda to re-establish traditional virtues, drawing parallels with historical wartime propaganda efforts.

• Logic and Rhetoric in Debates: Emphasis is placed on the strategic use of logic combined with effective rhetoric to counteract opposing viewpoints and enforce one's stance in debates.

• Critique of Feminism and Modern Societal Shifts: The episode critically examines contemporary feminist movements, arguing that they undermine traditional gender roles and contribute to societal instability.

---

This summary encapsulates the main discussions and viewpoints presented in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Steven Crowder]

Welcome to the Rumble Live lineup. Live every day here on Rumble. You don't need to change that dial all the way up until and including 4pm Eastern. Look at that. Look at that. And welcome, Vince. Viewers. Bongino Army, I know that you are one the same. I'm not gonna compare it to the Trinity, but it's just like a dubility. And they're both guineas, so it kind of works. It's very synergistic. Also, someone we have here in the show today, an Ash Wednesday. Very happy to have him, Mr. Andrew Wilson. You know him from the whatever podcast. You know him from the Crucible that you can watch on YouTub. And of course, you also know him from some of the destructions that you have seen of feminists out there in the Internet sphere. We're going to get into that. What is red pill? What is the manosphere? What are men's rights? Orthodox Christianity? All of that and more. Stay tuned at Sesh Wednesday.

[Tomi Lahren]

Oh, God.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh.

[Steven Crowder]

What the.

[Andrew Wilson]

Morgan, what the hell's going on? You should refinance. What? You should refinance with American Financing. They could save you thousands of dollars as they've helped thousands of Americans before me. Don't be like me. Who are you? I am the ghost of Mortgage Future. Every link in my chain was forged by the dollars I could have saved had I refinanced with American Financing. How are you the ghost of me? I'm not even. Time is relative. Over the next three nights, you will be visited by three spirits. Ah, yeah, that's not gonna work for me. Yeah, I got a show in Pittsburgh on Friday. Two shows in Cleveland after that. It's fine. Just trying to help. Do whatever you want. I don't care. All right, all right. American Financing. I'll call them tomorrow. One of them has a chick. Is she cute? She's like a st. Trust the professionals. Whether it's a medical procedure or financing your home, call the pros at American financing today at 1-800-974-6500 or visit www.americanfinancing.net Crowder, NMLS 182334. If you start today, you may even delay up to two mortgage payments.

[Steven Crowder]

There you go. Welcome to Ash Wednesday. And we do have Captain Morgan CEO here. How are you, sir?

[Tomi Lahren]

Doing well. How are you?

[Steven Crowder]

That's enough.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm not smoking.

[Steven Crowder]

Don't jump on our guest. This is supposed to be relaxed. And you see all the tension you just created?

[Tomi Lahren]

I didn't create any tension.

[Steven Crowder]

Andrew Wilson, how are you?

[Andrew Wilson]

Totally uncomfortable now.

[Steven Crowder]

I'M sorry.

[Andrew Wilson]

Totally uncomfortable now. I'm doing well. Thank you for having me. By the way, to the Crucible crew. Just enjoying some vodka and soda. Right? Their crew brought it in, brought in a nice cigar, treated us really well, rolled out the red carpet. Fantastic show, I must tell you.

[Steven Crowder]

Yeah, well, just careful because afterwards we're having an Eyes Wide Shut party. And I have a mask custom fitted for you, my friend. You gave me the password, right?

[Tomi Lahren]

Nope, no passwords.

[Steven Crowder]

So before we go on, before we go.

[Andrew Wilson]

You said those for props for a skit, bro.

[Steven Crowder]

Well, skit. We Method act. We're gonna Daniel Day Lewis this. I want you to, for people who are new to you, and I think a lot of people have seen your arguments, I guess I should say, or debates, particularly on Piers Morgan, Tommy Lehrer. And we have a clip from that. How would you characterize yourself? Because now things are, you know, there's the red pill movement and people think of that. You know, some people conflate whatever podcast, the Fit and Fresh, Andrew Tate black pill. They throw it all in one pot. So if you were to sort of clarify for them, how would you describe it?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, Well, I can untangle a bunch of that. So my view, I'm a Christian ethicist and I focused on politics and specifically politics. I do get in the realm of apologetics occasionally, but you could say that I'm far right, moderately dissonant. Right. Something in there. I don't associate myself as being red pill or even part of the manosphere, though I do do a lot of debates inside of the manosphere and get along really well with those guys because I've tried to understand their positions and they have some really good ones. But to untangle what these views are, the Christian rights, constantly tangling with the manosphere because they purposely refuse to listen to anything they have to say.

[Steven Crowder]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

And twist it and destroy it. The red pill is, as Rollo Tomasi calls it, a praxeology. I wouldn't call it a praxeology, but what I would say is it's a data packet. So think of everything that is red pill related. Just being in a file and handed to somebody. It's a series of descriptors, not prescriptors. Right. There's no prescriptions, just describing reality. What you do with it from there is up to you. Right, Right. And so what's happened is pickup artists have picked up this file and now it's going to help them teach men how to get pussy. Right?

[Steven Crowder]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

Or another guy picks up this file. Right. And he says, oh, well, this can help help men, you know, with their dating. Other guys pick up this file and they're like, wait, there's some human dynamics here, which we're really missing out on, that could really be helpful for men's rights and to advocate for men's rights that a lot of people don't really know about. And. And so they go that angle. Right. And so the red pill itself is not actually an ideology. It's an idea of descriptors. And then there's ideologues, which we use the descriptors to back up whatever their ideology is.

[Steven Crowder]

Right. And we had actually the film Red Pill from Cassie J. A long time ago and Karen Straughan early on in the show, like in the gosh, I want to say 2014, 2015, we went through the suffragettes. And so the term red pill was around. I think what you're seeing in kind of a different way that I describe it is you look at some of these movements where they do have prescriptions. They're right in diagnosing the problem and sometimes incorrect with the answer. For example, some people, their prescription is sleep with as many bitches as possible. So you know which one are hoes. And I would think that as Christians, believe in Christians, we're like, ah, that's probably not good because it's destructive to your soul. But they're recognizing the problem of promiscuity in the breakdown of gender norms. I think that's a good way to put it. Description or descriptors versus prescriptors. I'll say one thing you do better than anyone, anyone out there and has caught my attention is lasering in on questions where it comes down to this. We know what the fundamental duties are of men. We know what our rights are. Let's get past that discussion. But no one wants to define what that is for women. And ultimately, if people think that's offensive, you can scream until you're blue in the face. Young men are checking out. They're not getting married. And that's not good for our country. That's not good for a birth rate. That's not good for our society. So do we want to deal with the offense that is the reason for men checking out, or do we want to simply leave it at, well, that's offensive. We don't want to ever place duties on women.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So I mean, this is the fundamental question. So let's take everything, every type of political ideology you can think of, every type of ideology you can think of, and just Put them in a series of propositions, logical propositions. If we take a bird's eye view of all of the world, here's what the world really is. It's a series and sequence of men who are killing each other over resources and land. Okay? That's what every nation is. That's what every tribe is today.

[Steven Crowder]

Could be over. Kicks.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, it could be over. It could be over, whatever. Right? But fundamentally, that really is what's going on now. Men intuitively actually understand this. In fact, they don't even have a problem with this, where they're like, yep, it's going to be our tribe and your tribe. That's the way it is. Right, right. You don't even really have to describe this reality for them because they just understand that that's the reality. Because of that, what has happened is it's false to the duty of the stronger sex to protect women and the weaker sex. I completely agree that that is true. But also it falls to them the duty of procurement of resources, the refinement of resources, the distribution of resources. And this is at the political level, down the distribution of resources. So that's all politicians ever fight about. All day, every day, nonstop. So if we're in the distribution phase, right. Men have procured this and, you know, they're distributing it, and it's women and children who are the primary beneficiaries of it and not men. We know what our duties are. They're very complete and they're not very complex. Protectors, provider. Right. And that's how you demonstrate we're the protectors and providers.

[Steven Crowder]

Skilled lover, but sure, yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

So what? So what? Well, so what are women? What are their duties? So here's my question. I'll ask you, what is a woman's duty? What are her duties that are on par with that of men?

[Steven Crowder]

Well, hold on a second before Gerald answers. I think you did a good job because you put him on the spot. I'll give you time to think about it. I think you did a really good job of. And this is something that you also address, overt feminism versus covert feminism. You were on Piers Morgan with Tommy Lear, and a lot of people ran the clip where, you know, there's some back and forth kind of dunking snippy, but a lot of people miss this macro point that you made, which I think is the crux of it.

[Piers Morgan]

So I believe I'm. There we go again. Pierce. I'm a woman of virtue. I happen to be independently successful. I have a husband who's not only A former professional athlete, but is currently a professional baseball coach. So is he not a masculine man? I mean, I'm confused here. What's your concept? Don't you understand that mine is a man who respects me?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. That misses the point, though. Like, you're still not contending with the argument saying inside of society right this second. Right. Masculinity is not only punished, but also women on the right. Covert feminists on the right are constantly and consistently talking about how they need to have privilege in society. I want men. Their version of masculinity is men who take care of us, men who protect us, men who do all of this. Those are all duties that men have towards women. Great. What are the duties that women have towards men? What are the duties that women have towards anything? What do men get out of this arrangement? What are we getting out of this arrangement? Can you tell me. I mean, you.

[Piers Morgan]

That men innately.

[Andrew Wilson]

I don't want to interrupt you.

[Tomi Lahren]

Hang on.

[Piers Morgan]

Men are born that way.

[Tomi Lahren]

Let Tommy respond to that and then I'll come to you. Jesse, you've been waiting patiently.

[Piers Morgan]

So most men are born to be protectors and providers. I can't imagine my dad saying, you know what to my mom, you know what? I'm not going to be a protector and a provider unless you do this. That's not how real men operate. Real men are protectors and providers and they marry women who.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, great. A woman telling us what real men.

[Piers Morgan]

Are bringing a lot to the table as well. That are great mothers, great wives, caretakers of the home. There's nothing wrong with being a traditional wife and mother. You're misunderstanding me if you think that I think that women should just be out doing whatever they want. I think I love getting lectured by.

[Andrew Wilson]

Women on what real men are. That's.

[Piers Morgan]

But I don't think a man needs to get something out of it to be a man. Manly man, a protector and a provider. If you think you need to get something out of nothing, I, quite frankly, don't consider you a real man.

[Steven Crowder]

Okay, So a lot to unpack there, as people say. I will say you do need to provide something for him to be a manly man for and solely dedicated to you. I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yes.

[Steven Crowder]

Should it be a man in society, but one dedicated to you? Full disclosure, Tommy Loren, if you've watched the show for a significant period of time, has been on. I have no ill will toward Tomi Laurent. I just think that that was a seminal moment here in this movement because you've been Often misrepresented. Sometimes he just dunks on whores. Although when in Rome. Every now and then. Yeah, but that's not what you're about. You really, you are. I hate to use the term educator because it sounds so self important.

[Andrew Wilson]

Logician would be a good one.

[Steven Crowder]

There you go. Okay. And you've talked about the way you approach it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So focused logician focusing from the Christian ethics side. The reason that this is obviously controversial and stunlocking for people is because they expect, you know, Christians to be to act in a very effeminate way because the masculinity of Christianity, especially in the Protestant side, has been completely sucked out by these blood. So blood circling viperous sewing circle Christians is what I call them. And they're covert feminists.

[Tomi Lahren]

That's a long name.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, Yeah. I was like looking for a bunch of adjectives to lace together.

[Steven Crowder]

We could maybe just like bumper cigarette to real bitches, but no, but I understand. So you were asking him before Beauty.

[Tomi Lahren]

I thought this was a really important question that I hadn't really thought as much about until I saw that clip with you and Tommy. I was like, man, this goes right to the heart of some of the things that I've been thinking about and talking with my wife about. Wouldn't it be great if somebody was articulating that for women today? Because it seems to be a huge disconnect and you can go back biblically and go, okay, well what does the Bible kind of say about this? Well, it's obviously having children and raising children, but there's other stuff too. Like when you read Proverbs 31, it doesn't mean that the wife is just sitting at home barefoot, pregnant and waiting for the husband to come home and beat her up. Like she does a lot of stuff in that, you know, and does things for the family, you know. So I would say my answer would that. And what Tommy probably should have said, okay, is that what you get out of it is children, right? I have the children and I will be a mom to those children. I'll be faithful, I'll take care of the home, and I will be a good wife to you as well as a good mother. There may be some other stuff, but.

[Andrew Wilson]

And are women having children not.

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, the birth rate would suggest otherwise.

[Andrew Wilson]

So yeah, then it appears like perhaps they're failing at the duty. So if a woman brings this up as a duty, right. And knows that you can counter by saying like for in Tommy, Lauren's particular case, does she have children? Well, think so. I Don't think so. And so the thing is, it's like, you know, a lot of these women, the reason they can't utilize this as an answer is because they don't live up to the very duty to expectation that they themselves would permeate to other people. Right. I agree with you. I think that childbirth is uniquely. I mean, only women can do this. And it puts them in a position of privilege in society. And we put them there because they need to be protected. Right? Yeah, but what do we get here? We're supposed to be getting the children and we're supposed to be getting the mom for the children and the dutiful wife and the women of great virtues. As I brought up Tomi Lauren, the reason this was such kind of a kill shot for. Against her is because what she said was men innately want to just do this for us. So what does she do? She instantly assigns herself and all women privilege. We instantly put ourselves in a position of privilege versus men. It's innate for you, Steven, that you want to buy me nice shit and then watch me put it on. Like you're privileged. You're privileged. Don't you want me to be happy buying nice shit and you get to provide it. You're doing your. Like you're doing exactly what a real man's supposed to do. And I'm doing exactly what a woman supposed to do.

[Steven Crowder]

Andrew, I have to tell you, you're a horrible sales salesman.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, you really are.

[Tomi Lahren]

And by the way, it's not so much the putting on as the taking off that's the fun part. So let's just be.

[Steven Crowder]

I mean, come on, let's just be honest here. Whoever. Disagreements exist with your wife. That's a crowd pleaser with your.

[Andrew Wilson]

Right.

[Steven Crowder]

Let me. Okay, so that is. It was fascinating to me. I will say, I don't want to keep going back to it. That no one answered. Not even the, the, the homosexual sort of ally in there. No one on that show answered at any point. And when, when they were asked, they still kept coming back to what was clearly an expected duty of men all the time.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

And men are checking and what's the.

[Andrew Wilson]

Very first thing they always say? And you'll see it on every single kind of feminist exchange I have. You're not a real man. Right. So you get to make the determination on what men are or aren't. Right. Now, what if I said this back to you? Oh, you can't have children. You're not a real woman. How would that go over?

[Tomi Lahren]

Would it go over very poorly.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, really? Probably wouldn't go over very well. Right. But if they assigned that as a duty that women ought to be moving towards. It doesn't mean every woman can have kids. They can't. We know this. But they also should not be trying to provide an environment where other women are not. They should not be moving in society towards a lack of childbirth, but facilitating other women having children and families, even if they themselves can't. We wouldn't, like, count them out. You wouldn't say, oh, you had a hysterectomy because you had cancer. You're not a woman anymore. That's not what. Of course, that's ridiculous. But what we would say is if you've had the hysterectomy, right, and you can't have children, you know, that sucks. But you should still be in society trying to create the conditionals so that other women can.

[Steven Crowder]

Yeah, right.

[Tomi Lahren]

Not advocating.

[Andrew Wilson]

Instead of trying to agitate against it or promote against it, you should be trying to at least lay the groundwork down so that other women can fulfill their duties. And how do I know this? Because that's exactly what men are expected to do. You're in a wheelchair. You can't work. Right. You can't provide security, resources, things like this. You still have an obligation, right. To at least attempt to facilitate so that others can. Right, right. So that you're not getting in the way of other people doing that. And you're still promoting in society that they can. And if you don't, you're considered a piece of shit. Right. Right now you're just a crippled piece of shit.

[Steven Crowder]

They don't tell you that part about lieutenant and, yeah, they got no legs. Yeah, you piece of shit.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah, you're just a crippled beast.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, hold on. Just as a follow, has anybody not, obviously. Time of the Wren. Because I don't think she has. But has anybody else articulated that to you in private or in some conversations? How is that possible? Because it really is the only logical answer that you can have.

[Andrew Wilson]

People. Well, first of all, people don't think. And secondly, there was a feminist on this, on another Piers Morgan feminist panel. I did the Dunkin Donuts panel where the feminist did say, why not Sponsored by them. Have an obligation to have children.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

Until I pressed her on it. And then suddenly that obligation, she was like, well, okay, maybe not. Right. Maybe I don't actually think that. Backed away from it very quickly. And it was all back to what men's responsibility to women are. Right. Women's responsibilities have Been completely thrown off of them since. Since the sexual liberation. Right. Since especially the 60s and 70s. The entire thing was the removal of patriarchy. So if you're going to be a victim class, even though you outnumber men, but you're still the victim class, Right? Well then who are your victimizers? Well, it can only be men, right? So if men are in charge of systems, that's what patriarchy is. So women, when you're talking about feminism and covert feminism, do you see right wing women do this all the time where they try to get an egalitarian caste. Right. We want egalitarianism with men at the highest echelons, highest levels. Well, that necessarily displaces male power, therefore displacing patriarchy. And you, as a conservative woman are supposed to be for patriarchy. You're supposed to want there to be patriarchy inside the household. That's what you advocate for, but not in government. Somehow men are okay to rule their household, but the second they're in charge of the planet, then it's a problem. It's like, what are you talking about? It's absurd.

[Steven Crowder]

Only female world leaders. There'd be no wars.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, except. Except here's part of that red pill packet. Descriptors, right? There's some famous studies which were done that went back and looked at queens and looked at kings. It turns out when queens were in charge, there was more war, not less war. And the myth of the matriarchy anyway has been completely reduced to rubble. There's never been a matriarchy in all of human history, ever. Anywhere qualify that. What do you mean by that? So patriarchy is from the father, right? Most of the time everything is done through what are called patrilineal means. So from father to son, this is the change of power. There have been queens, right? But the entire governing body is not women. The entire, the entirety of the governing body is always men, everywhere, all the time. And essentially it always has to be that way because we have the monopoly on force. So if you look back through history, you'll see these dumb liberals will say things like, well, in the, the Rapaho tribe of the Navajos and the, you know, blah, blah.

[Steven Crowder]

It's a black comic.

[Andrew Wilson]

We had. We had. It was a pure matriarchy where women were in charge. And then you look into it.

[Steven Crowder]

No.

[Andrew Wilson]

And you find out this is based on progressive nonsense verbal history. Right? This comes down to verbal history and you go, okay, well how come it wasn't in our recorded history when we actually started dealing with this tribe, how come the men were making all the decisions in the chiefs? Right. Oh, well, that was because of colonialism. How come there's no recorded history of these matriarchies? Because they never existed. And these people are frauds. And what they do is they say, well, there's a verbal history, right. And that's what proves it. It's like, well, where's the.

[Steven Crowder]

Ain't that like women always be happy?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, where's the, where's the anthropology? Speaking of that, women being happy?

[Steven Crowder]

Well, you know what they pulled?

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

I just want to say they pull this thing with the gender stuff, too. They go, well, there are plenty of societies. You go, okay, name one. Yeah, they go to some Native American tribe where they're like, I guess you could kind of act like a lady.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's through our oral history. And it's like, yeah, so you can't prove any of this. Right.

[Steven Crowder]

We probably wouldn't have such a problem.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, exactly. Well, in speaking of the other thing you just said, and this is, this is interesting, you're talking about, when you're talking about the idea of women's happiness, there's been two comprehensive meta analysis studies which have been done piggybacking off each other, which study women all over the world. And regardless of the conditions they're in, doesn't matter what, regardless of the conditions, no matter how egalitarian, no matter how not egalitarian, no matter if they're in all the positions of power or not, in a comparative analysis, they're always less happy than men. Always. So basically, it's just like even in the conclusions of these studies, it says you just can't make women happy. You just can't.

[Steven Crowder]

Well, that would also go to the psychological profiles, Right. Like Jordan Pearson talks about this two have your differences, but increase, you know, higher level of neuroses. You know, the idea of a mom being a worrier. And some could say that's a biological sort of evolutionary mechanism, right? To be worrying, to be on alert. Because a part of your job in a tribe, for example, would be to alert those who could thwart the threat where you can't deal with it yourself.

[Andrew Wilson]

So.

[Steven Crowder]

So it makes sense. In other words, that's not. Shouldn't be offensive. We go, women tend to worry more and be slightly more anxious.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, I mean, none of this should be offensive to anybody. Right. It's. In fact, I say that most of this is just like blatantly obvious to the observer. It's like if you ask a person who's stronger Men or women, Right. And they go, well, you know, I'm not really sure. It's like just based on what you observe. Yeah. You know, just like when you're walking down the street and person lift up heavy shit, do they usually have a penis or not?

[Steven Crowder]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, and it's like, well, well, you know, okay, yeah, they mostly have a penis.

[Tomi Lahren]

You can cut those off.

[Steven Crowder]

There are exceptions, right? There are some women who are stronger than men.

[Tomi Lahren]

That's not what I'm talking about.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, and the thing that's so funny about that is it's like I can see the point. Of course there's plenty of women out there who are stronger than some men. I'm not disputing that.

[Steven Crowder]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

So what, the exception is what proves the rule, right?

[Steven Crowder]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's what proves the rules. Like because you have to point to an exception. You're saying there's a rule, Right. Or how do we get an exception to it?

[Steven Crowder]

Right. No, you're exactly. Let me ask you this because you talk about this and I think people right now are probably going to go along to say, okay, logically that makes sense. The idea of the duty we've absolved societally, especially with the sort of the rise. The ascent of feminism of duties. But let me ask you this on a personal level because ultimately we do want to get to solutions on a personal level on a day to day basis. I don't know what the number is right now. I think it's 30 something percent of women are going to be single and young men are uninterested in getting married. And that number by 20, 30 something, I think it's going to be close to 50% depending on which numbers you use.

[Andrew Wilson]

So that's closer to 65% in 25 years.

[Steven Crowder]

Right. So that's going the wrong way.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

So on an individual basis, what would you identify as the primary problem or what creates the hesitancy, this sort of reticent nature from men to get into that dating sphere? Because a lot of men are checking out what needs to be resolved there for men to say, okay, let me have, let me give this another go.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, there's two primary problems and anybody can look this up with a cursory Google search, not even hard information to find. The first is in all western nations. The second you hit industrialization and you start promoting that women go to college and defer their childbearing years for college years. Right. You end up with an aging, with an aging populace. For women, your birth rates, they just nosedive it doesn't matter where, it doesn't matter where. Why is that so ineffective, especially for men? Well, by the time imagine you take women and you not only are telling them to defer their best childbearing years in college, but what is college? It's not like they're going to women's colleges. Right. They're going to co ed colleges. And what happens there? It's basically a den of iniquity and degeneracy. Right. So they're going getting their face planted in a pillow and road hard for about four years. Then they go out into career world, do the exact same thing, play the field for another three years, and by the time they're 30, they want to settle down and give you 1.5 kids. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't think most men want a chicken who's been plowed 25 times before they get to him. Right. And then marry that woman. Right. For the luxury of having reasonably unhealthy children. That's why you see such a rise in autism is an aging population of women. The average childbirth now 28. 28. You go back just, just 40 years. Right. Average was about 19, 20. Right, right. That's where we want it to be. We want it to be in the healthiest years of women for, for two reasons. One, the health of the child way, way better in the health of the mother. Women who have Babies in their 30s have a really hard time recovering. Women who have babies in their 20s, you ever seen that like they have the baby and the next day they're back at work. It's like, it's not even a big. It's just like a hangover. Yeah. I tell people think of it like a hangover. When I was 20 and I got really, really, really drunk, the next day I was at work and didn't even think about it. Right.

[Steven Crowder]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

But when I went and drank too much when I was 30, I called in. Right, right. Your body just doesn't have that same.

[Steven Crowder]

To be fair, I do think there's also sort of a contributing factor there. Increased diagnoses and autism. Because everyone is on the spectrum now. But yes, they both contribute significantly. So I see that you've identified a problem. The problem there. Are you saying that the solution. And I know the second one, but if we go to solution there is that as a society we need to stop placing importance on college degrees for women and start placing importance on exemplary women. And what kind of.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'll tell you both solutions. Okay, let me give you the second part though, this is the worst part. It's localization. So before the Internet, right, How would you meet people? Well, you'd meet them at work or at church socials or through friends or things like that. Local, right. You weren't really dating 500 miles away because who the hell did you know? There's nobody in your circuit to even introduce you. So Bob and Sally from the same town met each other, right? And there really wasn't that many other people, you know, you selected from what the pool was that was there and that was it. Monogamy worked really good for that, right. Everybody basically was able to get and select a partner. Well, let's fast forward now. And now we have the problem of mate selection, hypergamy, or what's referenced as hypergamy. It's basically, it's pretty simple. If you're a woman and you have a superpower, right, which they do at about the ages of 17, roughly through 26, 27, where men will literally, you know, castrate themselves to have sex with them, right? They will do insane things in order to get in these women's pants because of this over overarching kind of biological need to sleep with beautiful women, right? Well, women within that age range, they're very marketable that way, right? So when they go and they're like, they get slipped in the DMs of a very famous man, for instance, and he's like, hey, I'll fly you out, right? Then they get wooed and he bangs them, right? And then they think that that's the type of men they can get as a husband, as a husband or as a long term mating partner, and they can't. And so now they have a, they have trouble making sex selection or making correct sexual selections for themselves because they feel like they're in a league they're not actually in. Because men will sleep with you when you have that superpower, doesn't mean that they'll marry you, Right? Right. So localization is a massive issue. So what happens when you have 20% of the men who are the ones who are the, the women all of the women are mostly going for, right? Well, that doesn't leave a lot for everybody else. That's why they're saying men are 10 different, you know, 10 different chicks, 13 different chicks, this type of thing. And this is why these women will ride the cock carousel and they're not settling down till their 30s.

[Steven Crowder]

I'll say.

[Tomi Lahren]

Just make up your own terms.

[Steven Crowder]

There's also something in there, I think not that you're glossing over it. But it's quite important, let's say, I mean, let's just say, for example, like, let's say it's LeBron James. I'm just saying like a famous person, right? Okay, there is the problem of, okay, now someone thinks that they have LeBron as a husband, right? That level of status. But there may be. I'm just using this as an example. I'm not talking down, I'm not talking crap on LeBron. They sort of overlook some other facets that hey, he may not actually bring the qualities to the table that you want in a husband. This may just be a guy who's super famous, super rich, high status, but you take that good and you go, oh yeah, but by the way, he's never gotten married. And by the way, maybe he has never actually been someone who's valued fidelity. Then you have a guy who does but isn't LeBron James and you just see what's lacking. And I see that quite a bit.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, let me to give you a little pushback here. Let's, let's evaluate it from a different angle. It is the case that you at least need to be attracted to the person.

[Steven Crowder]

Sure.

[Andrew Wilson]

That you're going to end up with. Right. If that's the case that you need to have attraction. Well, I mean like what other things are you willing to look over so that you can have the thing that, that you. For men especially visual. Right. Attractiveness. What else are you willing to gloss over? Can she be a stupid bitch? Yeah, maybe she can, can she be fucking crazy? Probably crazy. High scale exists for a reason, you know? Could she like, could she kind of be a God awful person in a fucking embarrassment? Well, yeah, but she's really hot, right? So it's like. So when it comes to attraction though, we've missed that aspect for women, right. That women are not attracted to that many men. And so when you say like husband qualities, right? Oh sure. They'll even grant all these qualities. Like they make spreadsheets and flow sheets for different men who are in their rosters, right? They'll be like, he, you know, he's, he would be a great provider. He'd be this, he'd be that. And I'll keep him around till we're in our 30s. And if there's nobody else around who's good looking, right. I'll settle with him. You know, that's, that's fine. You know what I mean? He could be, he can be that guy. But what happens when it's an attractive guy who also happens to be a piece of shit. Well, just like men, they're probably going to select for the attractive.

[Steven Crowder]

I'm not disagreeing. What I'm saying is. So give an example. I know a story of a woman who was a side side piece, okay, To a very successful man, all right? And he bought her, I believe it was like a Maybach or something. And then she ends up getting remarried, they end up getting divorced. But they would get into arguments and she would say like, well, you know what? You don't do an xyz. And it's like, yeah, but that guy was doing it because you were his side piece and he didn't want his wife to know, right? But she was bringing. Where this guy was basically fighting a phantom. Like, yeah, yeah, but this is actually, this is not that you're not a side. This is now a marriage. And so it brings a litany of complications as well, where you pick the good and you sort of forget the bad or what was lacking. And that goes back to the point, just a different way, I guess, of addressing they think that this is a marriage when in fact it's a fling. And the threshold is very, very different for men. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean that it's right for those guys to be sleeping with a bunch of women and destroying them for future marriages. But that is a reality and women will often willingly destroy themselves. And it's a problem.

[Andrew Wilson]

Look at it like an X Men superpower that almost virtually all women have when they're between, like I said, the ages of like 17 through, you know, 26, 27. And then it kind of just goes away once they meet the wall. Right? And the wall always wins. So they. But through those years, doors magically open for them. Gifts magically show up. Right. I mean, dinner is just magically paid for. It's literally a superpower. But men don't really have this superpower except a few. So put yourself in that situation. Like, think of it objectively. From that situation. You're a very good looking and successful man who can sleep with whatever beautiful women you want. Is it really so hard to envision that if you could, like that was just dropped on your lap, wouldn't you use it? I think the answer most men would be like, yeah, it's just that we're not really ever presented with that. Most of us, right? It's very few of us who are. And women, on the other hand, have that superpower for a little while. Almost all of them. And that's why you breed such narcissistic women, Right? Because they can essentially sleep with whatever man they want whether they get married or not, but they can't do the same. Right. So Brian Atlas on whatever, he makes his point often he says, I would argue that if I can sleep with a woman, she's definitely going to want to date me. But you can't make the argument back that if you can sleep with a man, he's definitely going to want to date you because a man's going to sleep with you. Basically all you got to do is show up and open your legs, right?

[Steven Crowder]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

But it's not the same case for men.

[Steven Crowder]

Sometimes not even that. Let me ask you, so the solutions. Yeah, solutions are the solutions. Okay. As a society we need to determine what is exemplary. And that is not right. Now the course is go to college, be independent from a man because you don't want to be trapped. Become a working professional, establish yourself. Right. So I'm assuming that the solution is the opposite of that. And then what would be the solution to the next one of.

[Andrew Wilson]

So you start with propaganda. We've been kind of led to believe that bottom up propaganda is the way that it needs to be organic. No, it doesn't. You need top down propaganda like you had in World War II. The same way you got women in the factories with Rosie the Riveter is the same way you get them in the household with like, you know, Susan the housewife, Right? And that's the propaganda that's everywhere. The glorification is of Susan the housewife, you know what I mean, who has the little like thing of cookies and she's always smiling and she's always super happy and her husband's always smart, you know what I mean? And you make that the trend everywhere and you force it down everybody's throat all day long every day, where it becomes practically ingratiated in them. That's what you elevate in society. You don't even have to outlaw anything. It's not even necessary. Like you don't even have to be like, well, you can't, you know, do X behavior. If you had a glorification program top down, just like you do for government propaganda and warfare, it would work beautifully. You know, you don't even need to tell women they can't go to college. You just make the propaganda all about the family unit. And that's the thing the government's supporting. That's the thing we're pushing for as a society. That's the patriotic thing to do.

[Steven Crowder]

So basically, exactly how society was before 1960.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yes.

[Steven Crowder]

You need a good mask, maybe a better mascot, like Smokey the Mama Bear. Only you can prevent burnt casseroles, some shit like that. You know, we'll work on it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Steven Crowder]

We'll sort of. We'll whiteboard it. And the second one, the second issue of women who, you know, find themselves in a position where, okay, I've slept with this very attractive, very wealthy guy. And so they're under this delusion that that's their marriage material and it ruins other men. How do you solve that issue? Do we kill all the rich, attractive men?

[Andrew Wilson]

This is. This is the more controversial take. The first one's much more easy to demonstrate and prove because we have 200 years of propaganda from the top down which shows you can. Philip Morris can definitely get the country to smoke. Okay. Yes, we can definitely prove that propaganda.

[Steven Crowder]

Works and he was homosexual.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, the second, the second. Well, it wasn't even Philip Morris. It was the ad guy. He. I mean, he did that for multiple. Multiple.

[Steven Crowder]

In my mind, he's Jim Carrey. So that's the best of my knowledge. But by the way, people will say that that's offensive enough. Comment below if you. Why you think that what he just said is outlandish and offensive? Because it is easily verifiable. That is what we did as a society. And not just American society, European society, you can go back to for crown society it up.

[Andrew Wilson]

And when everybody smoked, nobody was fat. I just pointed out when everybody smoked, nobody was fat because it was an appetite suppressant.

[Steven Crowder]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

And by the way, you know, most people who smoke never get lung cancer. 90% plus don't get lung cancer. They have heart attacks.

[Steven Crowder]

Thank God we're on Rumble and not on YouTube because that would be you. You advocated tobacco use. Correct. It also makes you look really cool.

[Andrew Wilson]

It does, it does. So anyway, yeah, it was a way better society when everybody smoked. Trust me, it was way better. Zaptite suppressant. It was a great way to greet your friends. It was fantastic. We it all up. But anyway, the point is avoid his back to this, though. The second can only be played with Christian ethics. So the idea of. Part of this propaganda that you would want to put out is the idea of virtues for women. And you could teach virtues for women inside of classrooms. Right. Just like we used to teach virtues for women. Same way we used to teach virtues for men. Here's male virtue. Right? Here's what men are expected in society. Here's what you're expected to do. Here's what you're expected not to do. Well, one big key of female virtue is what? Chastity. It's chastity.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

So if you're, if you're reinforcing chastity, you never get put in the position where you're sleeping with a good looking guy pre marriage. Right. So you're ruined. Right. But you have to start that young. That's a way harder thing to get into the mainstream. The idea of virtues, what are feminine and what are masculine virtues being pushed at a young age. That's what the entire transgender movement was about, was the abolishment of virtues, masculine and feminine virtues, to blend them into the idea that all of these virtues are simply universalized. None of them are specific to the sexes. But here's why they have to be specific to the sexes. Because if men are promiscuous, it actually does less harm to society than if women are. I know that that seems like unfair. Right. But it's true. It actually does less things.

[Steven Crowder]

I mean, you're advocating for problems.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, no, no.

[Andrew Wilson]

The opposite.

[Steven Crowder]

No, I always want to make that clear.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

He says that men should bang bitches.

[Andrew Wilson]

And bitches should be virgin. No, no, no, no. Both need to have that as a virtue. Right. But if women aren't chased, it creates significantly higher problems than if men aren't chased.

[Steven Crowder]

Well, there's not the same. There's not the problem of paternity.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Or reproduction or the problem of the. The revolting factor. So the reason men have such a revolting factor when it comes to high body count, very promiscuous women is because that's how we assured paternity, through chastity. So paternity tests are a modern invention. I don't know if people remember this or not. So how did you know if the kid that the woman was having was yours? Well, because she was only you. Right?

[Steven Crowder]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's the only way you could assure paternity. So if you want to know why men get revolted by high body count, women, it's actually ingrained inside of men. That's how we assure our prodigy and paternity.

[Steven Crowder]

Can I ask you a question, though? And this is one thing because I agree with everything that you just said. How much level of pushback, though? For example, we showed your clip. Nick Depala was on the show. And Nick Depala's been married for a very long time. People see him as this. This. He's one of the roughest comedians ever lived. He's also like, he's also family guy. I don't know if he'll get mad at me because I'm destroying his rep. He's pretty boring. Like, he's not a guy on the road snorting coke off a lady's hip bones. He's a guy who goes back, watches espn, calls his lady. But he said, I don't think a lot of guys. He's like, when I was young, I didn't want. I don't think a lot of guys want that. They're not thinking about a woman having like, they want to bang as many broads as possible. There's a huge contingency of guys out there who are outside of sort of this quote unquote, red pill sphere. How much pushback do you think you like? What percentage of men do you think would be on board with what you're proposing?

[Andrew Wilson]

Here's the prop, the flaw in his argument. He's right, right. That of course most men prefer to sleep as many women. Oh, I'm shocked.

[Tomi Lahren]

Is there a study for this?

[Andrew Wilson]

They want to go nail a bunch of child. You know, but here's the counterargument. It's really simple. Most can't. And that's it. That's all you need to know. So ultimately, most men can't do that. So if you think that most men wouldn't prefer to settle down with a woman and have kids, right? They would. Because most of them are simply not capable of bagging tons of chicks. They're not even capable of doing it. But most women are capable of bagging basically as many women as men as they want.

[Steven Crowder]

Basically disabuse both sexes of this fantasy solution. Disabused men of this fantasy, even though we agree it's immoral. This fantasy of bagging a bunch of broads, like, look, that's not likely. Also, here's why it's not good long term. Disabuse women of the notion. Hey, this idea that you're going to get white knight, Prince Charming, multi millionaire, six foot three, six pack is also not realistic.

[Andrew Wilson]

Here's the thing, it's like, do you remember dare that stupid ass program? And then dare to keep kids off drugs. Do you ever see that?

[Steven Crowder]

I still have no bite an egg.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. This is your brain. This your break on drug. Don't tell me that shit wasn't effective at keeping kids off drugs. It was. Yeah, it was. They definitely remembered, right?

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

Remember because the girl was cute. It was Rachel Lee Cook.

[Andrew Wilson]

How is that not propaganda? That was 100 propaganda, right. And now the half of it wasn't even true, right? It's like, you're gonna smoke weed and then you're gonna be snorting crack, right? It's like, yeah, no, that really wasn't. Are you gonna drink a beer? And then you're gonna.

[Steven Crowder]

But the.

[Andrew Wilson]

The idea for me. But the idea for the propaganda, though, that worked was that, you know, a lot of people are like, they had an aversion. Not an aversion to drug use, but what it did was it created a culture where people who did it were considered nefarious. They were considered like, you need to be away from me. You're part of, like, a more nefarious crowd, a bad crowd. Right. And you need to be over there. Well, that's what reinforcement of virtue really is. You're saying this idea of these activities are nefarious and you need to kind of keep it away from me. You know, it needs to be. And the same thing would happen with the pushing or promotion of chastity. It would be the same exact thing. Oh, you guys are out there having a bunch of promiscuous sex. That's as nefarious to us as your, you know, your massive drug abuse, Right? Yeah, that's. It's the same exact thing. And it's like, you can't tell me it doesn't work because, man, all I've ever seen is these programs work to huge success.

[Steven Crowder]

Just for people who take umbrella with the term propaganda, there's always propaganda. So if you think that the two mommies, you know, with the girl joining the army is not propaganda, then you're only fooling yourself right now. The propaganda has been that women can have it all, that you have all these choices available and they don't lead to different outcomes. As far as the timing, it's just not true. So if we're going to have propaganda, and you will, no matter what, I could also just sort of describe it as having an example, having an ideal, then what's best for society.

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, I was going to say this goes back to kind of the Christianity. We flipped these things, and I think they realize that they have to go after that duty that we identified, like having children. And the Barbie movie, the very beginning of it was them smashing their baby dolls and going into the workforce, essentially, and like, saying, I'm going to run away from that. So it's that underpinning where it's like, you don't value that anymore. You value a career. And so all of these choices that you get to make now. Don't worry about getting a husband. Don't worry about doing this. All of these choices now lead to that. The problem that I think we have is how do we convince women? And look, I use the same argument for homosexuality. That is not where life is found according to scripture. That is not where happiness is found.

[Andrew Wilson]

In scripture, you don't need to convince women.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, I'm just saying the opposite. Well, I think they're finding out the reality of it now. But pop culture still tells you, go and shake what you have and get what you can. Go and be on. Only fans go and do all of these things. Like, pop culture may take a while to catch up essentially, to what we're seeing in culture, but we gotta make.

[Andrew Wilson]

Some structural change to convince women. Women are gonna go. So women are the most easily indoctrinated, most. Most easily propagandized out of the sexes. Okay? Every single study you look at will tell you this. They're the most easily influenced, Right? That's why all the marketing and shit is towards women. Because they bought, they buy. That is insane. That's because of the pink tax. Yeah, exactly. The pink tax. Yeah. So the thing is. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the idea here essentially is. I mean, he's right, right? Pink razors, you charge a premium fork and women will buy it. Why? Because it's pink.

[Steven Crowder]

It's got a glide strip.

[Andrew Wilson]

But what it really is is Susan down the road has one.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay. And if Susan has it, she's, you know, she's pretty awesome. The other girls like what Susan's doing, so I'm going to do the same thing. They're the easiest when it comes to propaganda. Men, much, much harder. And here's. Here's what we have to deal with. Leftist men, they are the ones who benefit from feminism more than anybody else. The idea for disgusting leftist, subhuman men that they can, like, have sex with multitudes of women, they love that shit. They think it's great. Like, this is fantastic. Just imagine you're a secular, secular person. You have no ethical code whatsoever. You don't have any moral standing, and you're like, it's an all you can eat buffet. Right?

[Steven Crowder]

And we'll tell them it's liberation.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, it's liberation. We're liberating you. I'm on your team, honey. Now suck my dick. Right? So it's like, it's. I mean, it's not a joke, though, right? You think a Coomer Gremlin like Destiny would ever in a million years if he didn't have, you know, $2 million in the bank and a bunch of YouTube fame ever. Any of these chicks. Yeah, right. They would literally scrape this off their shoe. They'd walk by. They wouldn't even give this guy a second glance or a third. It's not even really a first, I don't think. It's not even a matter of charisma. You can't help what you're attracted to.

[Tomi Lahren]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

So you think we have to jump.

[Andrew Wilson]

In this guy because. Because of how good looking he was. It's like, give. Give me a break with this.

[Steven Crowder]

Right?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

So I think we need men. You men need to kind of lead the way. So how. How do men do that?

[Andrew Wilson]

Because give them a mission.

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, you're giving. You're giving kind of these. It seems like you're just observing what is. You're not. You're saying it. In fact, you'd probably be more on women's side than people would give you credit for. Like, hey, again to that argument. That's not where life is found. You're not going to find happiness there. This is what it's supposed to be like. And it makes everybody happier. Trust me. Don't sacrifice this gift from God to chase a career that could suck or anything else in life.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's funny when you say you're probably more on women's side, it's actually ironically hilarious. Do you ever see the movie they Live?

[Steven Crowder]

Yeah. With the glasses.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, the glasses. So he has the glasses, he puts them on, and the billboard said something like, you know, snap. And he puts the glasses on and it says, like, obey. Right? And then, you know, the glasses on and he looks over here and it's like, do what we tell you. You know what I mean? This type of thing, it's like unironically, I want that society. Right. And the re. But the reason I do is because I think liberation has enslaved women. Yeah, that sexual liberation that has enslaved women, and it's enslaved men. I want to break men out of the chains more than anything. You know what I mean? Women will end up initially or initially resisting. But convincing women has not traditionally worked.

[Steven Crowder]

Let me. I sort of present it sometimes this way to people is. Okay. Now, there are always outliers. You have to say, not all, not all, not all. Okay, as a general rule, get rid of the alcoholic father, you know, who comes home and he's mad that you burnt the casserole, you know, and so he starts. He locks you, change you to A loom or something to make you knit him a sweater without a piss break. All right, Take those guys out of it. And let's also take the awful bosses out of it. You know, like the boss from Dinosaurs sitcom, okay? Let's assume they're both within that sort of bell curve of moderately decent men, all right? Who do you believe has your better interest at heart? The decent husband. Not perfect. Or even the decent boss, because that's your choice. If you're going to be yoked to something, if you're going to. You are serving a master, ultimately, with a boss. That is what. That is a relationship. And so even if you view it as serving a master, right, if he's the head of the household, who would you rather serve, the boss or the husband? Which one cares about you more? Because it is a binary choice.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, well, like I said, convincing women the reason it hasn't traditionally worked is because when I think of convincing, I think of logic and reason. If I'm going to convince you, I'm going to use logical arguments and then I'm going to hope that your reason, right, that you use inductive reasoning to look at the logical argument and you backtrack it, right? You take it back to its original wherever its core was, and then you move it forward and go, does that make sense or not? Well, you can do that with women and they'll even agree with you and then dismiss it because you have to. You have to think of it from. From the purview of their sex. They're. They have raging hormones going on all the time, which makes their brains actually erratic, right? They often will do things by their own admission that don't make any fucking sense because they have these raging hormones going on in their body. Now, every man right now who's going, well, I'm not sure about this. Get back to me after your wife's had a. You know what I mean? Like, just stop. Just.

[Tomi Lahren]

My wife has said it. My sister has said it just for everybody out there, like she said, I don't know why I'm crying right now.

[Andrew Wilson]

But I am, I am.

[Tomi Lahren]

You know what I mean? Like, that's a common example of it.

[Andrew Wilson]

But here's what works. What works is propaganda. Because if some of the sisterhood moves towards the propaganda because it's trendy, right? The rest of them move towards that. Men don't work that way. So men, we can convince with logic and reason and good arguments, right? And as long as they're at the top of the hierarchy in the public Sector, which they still are. We can enforce this through law. The idea of law enforcement, though, being the idea of propaganda, not necessarily putting laws against specific behaviors. You don't even need to do that. Stigma works better. Stigma actually works better if you started at a young age than even putting a law on the books.

[Tomi Lahren]

I remember that in high school. I remember the girls that slept around were kind of like, oh, those are the sluts.

[Andrew Wilson]

Mm.

[Tomi Lahren]

You know, and that just was what it was for us. And I don't look at my generation.

[Andrew Wilson]

Like, you know, and it was so effective. It was great. Slander.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, that's how good the slander.

[Tomi Lahren]

Slept with a guy, you know, as a girl, like, if somebody said that about you, that would ruin your reputation, essentially.

[Steven Crowder]

Or Gerald would follow you around in a Cutlass.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'd be like, so I hear you like to go on dates.

[Steven Crowder]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, but I mean, I think that makes some sense because I think ultimately what we're trying to do is fix the problem that we see. That is very obvious. That is very corrosive. That can destroy civilizations. You talked about South Korea having, you know, like, an extinction level birth rate.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So does Japan.

[Tomi Lahren]

And running that direction very quickly are several dozen other countries, at least, probably almost all of them, except for a lot of African countries and South American countries. Birth rates are probably a little higher than those.

[Andrew Wilson]

Let me ask you a question. Let's pretend for a second. I'm not sure. You're married, right?

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay. Let's pretend you were in the dating market. Your wife will love this. Okay. Let's pretend you're in the dating market for a second. You meet a very fine woman. You like her a lot. She's very nice. Right. But she holds out on sex. You know, it's like your third date. She's like, you know, I just don't want to rush it. And she says these words because, I really like you. I really like you. And you're like, yeah, okay, that's great. I know this is going now you go on six more dates with her, right? And she's still not, you know, she's still like, well, I'm feeling it out because I really like you. And you're like, well, that makes sense. You know what I mean? Virtuous behavior. I like this. She found out the four guys before you, though she fucked on the first night. Can I ask you, how would that make you feel? That she's making you wait, but let them have sex immediately?

[Tomi Lahren]

Not. Not good.

[Andrew Wilson]

Not good.

[Tomi Lahren]

I wouldn't Think I was the choice catch? I would think I was a placeholder.

[Andrew Wilson]

Wouldn't you be like, if you really like me, yeah, but make me wait. But you didn't really like them and had sex with them right away. Then wouldn't my chances of having sex with you actually go up if you didn't like me?

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

Well, can I ask you the reason for the hypothetical? Is it because a lot of women who then they reach that point of settling down, it's like they want to start now, doing it that right way, and the kinds of guys who would actually appreciate the genuine virtue. No, it's a facade.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's called. Well, this is covert feminism. Faking virtue. So what's happening now is they're conforming to your idea of a virtuous woman. Well, a virtuous woman's not a promiscuous woman. Right, right. They're just not. That's opposition to virtue. The reason she likes you so much is because you like virtuous women and she ain't one. So what she's doing is faking virtue, saying, I'm going to make you wait. I'm going to do this. She's trying to fit all the boxes for what you consider virtue to be totally faking virtue. Right?

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah. Well, my wife and I had this conversation because neither one of us waited. We got married later on in life. Both first marriage we never had.

[Steven Crowder]

I thought he'd be single forever.

[Tomi Lahren]

He did think. And when I met her, he was like, don't you dare screw this up. She's amazing. So we basically said, like, look, hey, we've made some mistakes in the past. We would like not to repeat that. But we did that kind of mutually. I think I may have said it first or it came up in a conversation because immediately we're like, we've both screwed up. Let's not do this the wrong way anymore. Sure, that's a different scenario.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's totally fair. But again.

[Tomi Lahren]

But I see what you're saying were.

[Andrew Wilson]

The case, though, that you were like, oh, well, the last three guys you did, you didn't really like them. And she says, well, no. And you say, well, then come over here and give me a blowjob. Wouldn't that actually make more sense? Like, fundamentally, wouldn't it?

[Steven Crowder]

Yes, it does, Andrew.

[Andrew Wilson]

It makes more sense. Stop. It makes more sense. It's like, so. So. But this is. This is what you're running into, right? With the. With the inconsistency in the idea of virtue. And it's like, but you Know what would fix that? If she said, well, I'm going to make you wait. Because I made every guy wait.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

Because I'm still a virgin.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And guess what you're going to get. They would imagine having this gold bar called virginity. Right? He's taking over the local pond and throw it on in.

[Steven Crowder]

Right?

[Andrew Wilson]

You know what I mean? In the ocean, it's like you took the most valuable thing you have and you gave it away for free. Your biggest bargaining chip, your most leveraging power.

[Steven Crowder]

Right. As opposed to solid gold, most women now they're more like bitcoin volatile. And no one really knows the origin. Let me ask this. Did you always know, or I should ask this? Were you always a skilled debater? Did you always approach it through this? For me, the Socratic method was something I had to learn after high school. I was never taught that in school. Or was it something you had to sort of train yourself up?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, my dad. My dad was really big on talking politics around the dinner table, even when I was a kid. So I'll give you my impression of my dad. This is him when I was eight years old. He would be in his tighty whities and he would be in a chair like this. And he would be in front of the television when Clinton would be on and it would go like this. You know the problem, son, is these fucking Democrats are fucking strong. And that fucking bitch needs to be hung for treason. And they're all communist and they need to die. What's for dinner, honey? Right?

[Steven Crowder]

And.

[Andrew Wilson]

And I would just.

[Steven Crowder]

Oh, good man.

[Andrew Wilson]

And I thought it was hilarious, right? But I mean, he would just lose his mind watching it. Right? But what would happen is we were around the dinner table and he would explain. He would explain his reasons for it. He'd be like, listen, here's how this works and here's why it works that way. And so he gave me the most important thing ever, which was he taught me how to think. Yeah, right. So. So for me, logic is intuitive anyway, but then you can pick it up and formalize it and you can like any craft, you can become more skilled at it. Right, right. But the main thing to focus on is like, focus on intuitive thinking because into it, you know, like intuitive reasoning. Every. Every man has a capacity for it. And it's like. But once you start focusing on logic itself as. As being a format in a prism for which to focus thought. Yeah, right. You can basically decode the world, the world right in front of you in just a few minutes. And when people Start talking to you, you start realizing that most of the things that they say don't even make sense. It's like, dude, what you're saying right now doesn't even make sense. It's just stupid.

[Steven Crowder]

I had that moment. Why? I had two moments. My dad. I've given this answer many times and I'm very grateful to my father for it. And I think we need more dads like him, as imperfect as he may be. Got my first check doing. Arthur was 11 or 12 years old. And he explained to me what taxes were and asked me what I thought about the healthcare system and asked me if I thought that it was worth X dollars. And if I answered, I said, well, why not? He said, okay, well, what choice do you have? And just walked me through. These are how taxes work. And I came home one day because I had a drama teacher who said we should give all of our land back to the native Americans, the indigenous. As I said in Montreal. I said, well, that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life. I asked her if she had heard of scalping. She said, that's so right wing. I went home to my dad. It was the seventh grade. I said, dad, what's right wing? He said, who told you that? Who said that? I said, well, my drama teacher said, okay, well, let me explain it to you and you decide whether or not you are. And I walked back in the next day, said, yeah, by the way, I'm right wing. She tried to use it as pejorative. He explained it to me. Now, that being said, I know that you use logic. That's a fulcrum of all of your debates, but every now and then, you know that it is fun to just throw down some shark bait.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Steven Crowder]

As seen. But we're going to show this. As seen by this clip with this very unfortunate. I'm looking at the wrong camera. As seen by this clip with this very unfortunate looking lady. Previously worked as the junk muppet from Labyrinth. Infamous Dunkin Donuts clip.

[Andrew Wilson]

Nobody's gonna. No arguments. Your man. I'm telling you what's gonna happen. This is gonna go seriously well, this is going to go viral and a lot of people are going to take me seriously. And all they're going to remember is that I told you that you couldn't put down the Dunkin Donuts long enough to make an argument. Make one or not. Oh, you know, this is school.

[Piers Morgan]

By the way, a real man doesn't.

[Andrew Wilson]

Speak down to a woman the way you do. What you think you're not a real man. You're actually very feminine.

[Piers Morgan]

You're a very feminine man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, nobody cares what you think real men are.

[Steven Crowder]

By the way, I love. I love the juxtaposition of your smirking. I'm like that schoolboy tactics. Because I just was thinking, ebony, I'm as Mary as a schoolboy. Yeah, like, nailed it.

[Andrew Wilson]

So. So rhetoric, defined by Socrates, right. Is anything which is convincing. Anything. That's rhetoric. So when you're debating, there's two different. Two different ways to go about it. The first is pure logic, right? But people aren't that responsive to just purely logical arguments. They need to have, like, rhetorical flourish or also rhetoric which leads into the logic, some way to implant it in their brains. What it is that you're trying to say? This is how people communicate by the way people communicate through rhetoric and then intuitive reasoning, not usually through actual logical thinking. Like. Like. Like step by step. Logical thinking is not how we live our lives. Yeah, but rhetoric is very effective. So what happens is I always have, like, a match energy rule. So if somebody wants to go down in the mud, let's go.

[Steven Crowder]

Sometimes it's remarkable. So we've heard me talk about exactly what you say. I was compared to jiu Jitsu. I had a coach, he said, you come at me, switch. I'm gonna be.

[Andrew Wilson]

Switch.

[Steven Crowder]

Yeah, you come at me spicy. I'm gonna be spicy. It's that matching intensity.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, you hit me. If you hit me low. Yeah, let's go. Right. But if you want to keep it in the realm of just a pure conversation, let's do that. If you want to have purely logical debate with no ad homs whatsoever, and we're just going about ideas, great. You know what I mean? But most people, right, when they begin to lose in a logical sense, move immediately into the low blows, right? And so I learned very early on, well, wait a second. Not only can I do this, but I'm way better at it than you are, right? I'm way better at the low blows than you. So if you want to go there, let's do it. And so you can make them lose twice, in a sense, right? They lose their. And then they lose on their. So, you know, like, ultimately you can. You can beat them. Beat him in two domains. What happened with that woman was she would refuse to make an argument.

[Steven Crowder]

Are they gonna say she was fat and ugly?

[Andrew Wilson]

That too. But she refused to make an argument. Just refused.

[Steven Crowder]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And I was like, look, I just want the argument, you know? And so she got it. She got offended.

[Steven Crowder]

People who don't know she in that clip because we didn't show the whole thing where she was like, it must be terrible to be your wife.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Horror. She started immediately, got a small picker. Yeah. I. The whole. On the. On the whole, like, as many low blows as possible. So I was like, well, I mean, you trying to personally attack me is, like, amazingly funny. You know what I mean? Obviously, there's something I can take immediately.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

That is very apparent to everybody. And it's going to hurt you real bad. And it's not going to do anything to me. You know what I mean? So, bam. You smack them back. The other chick. Right. Same thing there. Most.

[Steven Crowder]

Can I continue this? Because we're. We're just about at time. And for those of you who. Who are not Rumble Premium members, click that button right there. We're going to continue for another, I don't know, half hour hour here with Andrew Wilson. You can watch his show the crucible on YouTube. And hold on, I want to make sure I have your X plugged.

[Andrew Wilson]

What's your xaleocrisecon?

[Steven Crowder]

Okay. Leocrhricecon. And if you are not a Rumble Premium member, continue watching. You will be whisked away to the land of Tim Pool, which probably is. There's probably less friction than, you know, he's more prickly. Andrew Wilson. And by the way, I was just paraphrasing that, lady. He has a tremendous prick. All right, on with the show.