Black Fatigue is Real and I Told Them Why | Black & White on the Gray Issues

Summary

Podcast Summary: Louder with Crowder – "Black Fatigue is Real and I Told Them Why | Black & White on the Gray Issues"

Date: October 9, 2025
Host: Steven Crowder
Episode Theme:
Steven Crowder engages in an unscripted, frank discussion about race relations in America, centering on the controversial concept of “black fatigue”—not as traditionally defined, but reframed here as "white people’s exhaustion with being called racist and carrying the burden of systemic issues." The back-and-forth unfolds in a barbershop setting with a diverse group of black and white men. The conversation covers race-based disparities, crime statistics, justice reform, DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion), reparations, and the sense of mutual grievance brewing among different communities.

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Main Theme Overview

This episode continues Crowder’s “Black & White on the Gray Issues” series, aiming to place honest—often uncomfortable—conversations about race on full display. The focus is on how both black and white Americans perceive crime, justice, inequality, and public discourse in the post-George Floyd/BLM era. Much of the episode debates who holds power, who is truly victimized in society, and the validity (or manipulation) of crime statistics and justice reform. There’s tension between empirical data and lived experiences, and a continuous attempt to find common ground—even as participants challenge each other sharply.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introduction: What is "Black Fatigue"?

• Crowder introduces "black fatigue" as a term gaining traction among white Americans, representing white people feeling victimized or fatigued by ongoing accusations of racism and increasing violent crime.

  “White people are 12 times as likely to be killed by a black person any other way around... I’m just gonna shoot you straight.” – Steve (00:13)

• The black participants question the concept and accuracy of such a statistic, expressing skepticism.

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Legacy Media, Race, and Perception (02:00–05:00)

• Crowder contends that legacy media (“the now network-less Joy Reeds…Don Lemons”) has worsened the racial divide.
• He recalls his first visit to a barbershop to “listen to real black Americans”—an experience he characterized as warm and productive.
• Crowder frames listening to white grievances as equally essential, warning that ignoring their frustration could lead to radicalization.

  “If you marginalize that entire segment…that will lead to ‘radicalization.’” – Steve (03:55)

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Reactions to Crime & Justice Reform (05:00–15:00)

• Incident reference: The murder of Irina Zarutska on a Charlotte train as a microcosm of justice system failures.
• Participants debate whether lenient release policies and the judge’s reasoning (restorative, racial justice) directly led to this crime.
• White and black attendees disagree over whether these decisions are racially motivated or part of broader systemic justice problems.
• Mental health vs. race: Several push back that the killer’s release was due more to mental health system failures than race.
• Crowder insists, “The judge…said, ‘This is about racial justice.’…That’s her reasoning.” (15:47)

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Statistics, Experiences & The Blame Game (13:42–18:00)

• Crowder repeats crime statistics: “White people are 12 times as likely to be killed by a black person”; others say stats are skewed by poverty and manipulated for fearmongering.

  “Crime is usually gonna be higher, concentrated in areas…with high poverty. So typically…the areas…are areas with people with this color skin.” – Unidentified White Man (14:24)

• Participants challenge each other on who is allowed to express grievance; black guests note white fatigue is a recent phenomenon, while black fatigue (constant criticism/blame) is generational.

  “We the smallest part of this country…But we have been tasked with the negative, the criminal, the immoral…That’s white fatigue.” – Unidentified Black Man 1 (20:11)

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Institutional Power, DEI, and Reparations (21:30–26:00)

• Crowder contends that many young whites have “no institutional power,” have lost advantage through DEI and are often scapegoated for crimes of the past.

  “What if…you have an entire generation of people, young white men, women…They hold no institutional power.” – Steve (21:28)

• Black participants highlight the history that prompted DEI and affirmative action, explaining that access-abuse was widespread for generations.

  “DEI is just a new way of wrapping affirmative action…Affirmative action had to be put in place because there was access being denied.” – Unidentified Black Man 1 (24:02)

• Disagreement emerges over whether reparations are justified and if DEI truly benefits black Americans more than minorities or white women.

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Hot Button: George Floyd, Systemic Racism, and Media

• Crowder references new polling and bodycam evidence changing opinions on George Floyd (26:36–27:37).
• Black men point out moral double-standards: “How many felonies does President Trump have…yet he was still allowed [power]?” (27:37)
• Crowder responds, focusing on criminal vs. "moral" felonies and brings discussion back to facts over feelings.

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Crime, Representation, and Race in Media & Policing (29:28–35:00)

• Citing research (Roland Fryer, Harvard), Crowder claims there’s no statistically significant higher risk of police shooting for black men over whites.

  “Roland Fryer…Black men are 0% more likely to be shot by police officers than whites…He reconducted the study…came to the same conclusion.” – Steve (29:31)

• Black men respond with skepticism, emphasizing lived experience and media influence, pointing out few black police ever shoot unarmed white people.

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Systemic Problems, Education, & Blunt Solutions (43:59–49:41)

• Heavy criticism of federal social programs (Great Society, Department of Education) as underperforming despite trillions spent.
• Crowder advocates for meritocracy (school choice, vouchers) vs. bureaucracy.

  “Instead of putting that money in administrative costs…that’s a grant, that’s a voucher that attaches to the student and they can take it to any school they want. Can’t do it because it’s racist.” — Steve (46:13)

• The group debates logistics, historical context, and the role of teachers’ unions in maintaining the status quo.

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Personal Accountability, Group Blame, and Moving Forward (39:22–44:20)

• Both sides agree “bad decisions” and personal accountability matter, but disagree on whose responsibility it is to fix systemic problems.
• Crowder: “Personal accountability, we’d all be against reparations, and we’d all be against the criminal justice reform.”
• Black men: “I’m definitely for reparations…you ain’t paid me for what you owe me.” – Unidentified Black Man 1 (40:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On White and Black Fatigue:

• “Black fatigue is white people going, you know what? I know I’m not racist.” – Steve (16:01)
• “You constantly get bombarded with excuses…Ask yourself, what do you expect when you look at architectural oppression, economic depravity, and social disparity?” – Unidentified Black Man 2 (38:59)

Challenging the Future:

• “If you create a generation of racists…that’s what’s going to happen.” – Steve (51:21)

Reconciling Opportunity and Historical Injustice:

• “Those same things that are put in place for those people back in those generations…are still in place…just trying to keep those doors open so that black people…can still get in. Because if you remove those, over time, we will be denied the access.” – Unidentified Black Man 1 (24:02)

On Crime & Experience:

• “My dad’s business got burned down. My city got burned down. I’ve been accused of being a racist, even though I’m not…” – Steve (34:01)
• “I really respect the platform that you have because you do have open and honest conversations. And I have to say, I don’t believe those numbers about black people murdering white people are correct.” – Unidentified Black Man 1 (18:15)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–02:00: Introduction of “black fatigue”; opening statements
• 02:30–04:00: Crowder’s barbershop approach & “radicalization” warning
• 05:32–06:53: Recounting barbershop impact; cross-cultural interaction anecdotes
• 07:45–09:21: Growing racial divide since previous episode; U.S. “autocracy” fears
• 12:00–14:24: Debate: “Black fatigue” as code for shifting white grievance
• 16:57–18:15: Who is silenced, who “holds the power”; black vs. white fatigue
• 20:10–21:28: “We’ve been tasked with the negative, the criminal, the immoral…” vs. Crowder’s view of white youth disempowerment
• 24:47–25:01: Admissions and standards: DEI, affirmative action debate
• 29:28–30:34: Roland Fryer study cited; reactions to data challenging victim narratives
• 34:01–35:38: Black and white crime: lived context vs. data claims; riots and neighborhoods
• 43:40–47:03: Social spending and education reform; school choice as a remedy
• 51:21–52:19: “You’re creating a generation of racists” vs. “older white people are feeding that to their kids”

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Tone and Style

• Candid, confrontational, occasionally humorous but often tense.
• Crowder’s approach is blunt, emphasizing “just the facts”; the guests inject personal and communal perspective.
• Participants occasionally break out in exasperation, laughter, or incredulity—creating both fire and occasional warmth.

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Final Reflection

The episode tackles the raw nerves of American race relations circa 2025. The roundtable tries—sometimes successfully, sometimes not—to parse the difference between what data suggest, what communities feel, and what policies actually accomplish. Crowder frames white fatigue as a breaking point, while his guests reject the premise and point to a persistent legacy of black fatigue born of genuine oppression. Resolution remains out of reach, but the honest, if contentious, airing of grievances demonstrates both the difficulty of the issue—and the necessity of the conversation.

Transcript

[Steve]

Have you guys heard of the term black fatigue?

[Unidentified White Man]

Mm.

[Steve]

You guys know what that means?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Since the last time you came, that's become a thing.

[Unidentified White Man]

Yeah, I was about to say that's just become a recent thing.

[Steve]

And do you know what it means?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm not sure what it means.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I'm gonna ask that.

[Steve]

White people are 12 times as likely to be killed by a black person any other way around. I'm just gonna shoot you straight. It's not even close.

[Unidentified White Man]

Where?

[Steve]

Across the country.

[Unidentified White Man]

Ain't nobody coming after you. You know what I'm saying? Like, nobody tripping on you and. But these people in just as scared as them other folks that you.

[Steve]

They are if they get on a bus.

[Unidentified White Man]

Not necessarily.

[Steve]

They are if they get on a truck.

[Unidentified White Man]

That lady wasn' danger because that man was black. That lady was in danger because that man was crazy.

[Steve]

Nope.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Whenever we want to ask for equality and fairness, it's a problem.

[Steve]

So white America. So it's been several trillion dollars. When is it enough?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Where the bird?

[Steve]

No, no, we're the bird. You know what? The bird just burned down. $4 billion worth of cities and 60,000 assaults. There's three times to four times as much homework than the black kid and the white kid does. Why?

[Unidentified White Man]

Because it's culturally, it's conditioned.

[Steve]

So why is it better parenting from Asian than white people?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

You said what?

[Steve]

While we're having real talk, why how many young black men fight in packs? So a couple of years ago, when I started black and white on the gray issues, I sensed some growing discontent or more of a racial divide in America than I'd experienced in my lifetime. And it seemed to be egged on by legacy media. It's sad to see a lot of people going along with it. The American people have felt safe in.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Their home, people who had absolutely no chance of victory.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Hate and racism towards black and brown people.

[Steve]

And as that evolved, and for the first time I walked into Stevie J's Barbershop, I really was looking to sit down and talk with, but mainly listen to real black Americans living the real American black experience to see whether they shared the viewpoint of a lot of the public representatives, the now networkless Joy Reeds of the world, or back then, the Don Lemons. What they wanted me to believe.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I realized that CNN and MSNBC were full of shit.

[Steve]

And overall, it was a largely warm, productive conversation. I think served its purpose. You can go check out that video to see what it was like. Fast forward to now and not only have things not really improved, and according to many Americans, they're markedly worse. And if listening is important, I noticed that a lot of white Americans felt pushed to a point that they weren't even fully comfortable expressing. But for the most part, when they did, their communication was pretty restrained. Then it was dialed up to near boiling point with the recent cold blooded murder of Irina Zarutska. The unthinkable happens.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

You see Brown pull out what officials.

[Steve]

Say was a pocket knife.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

He unfolds it, then stands up behind Zyrutska.

[Steve]

What we aren't showing you is the.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Moment where Brown then stabs Zyrutska several.

[Steve]

Times and walks away. And that murder, taking place at the hands of a black man who was arrested at least 14 times and released largely in the name of racial justice, spurred a reaction from white Americans that, frankly, is unsurprising. And, truth be told, for young white Americans is understandable. And it would be doing America no favors to completely ignore the discontent of young white Americans who, if you listen to them, definitely will make the case that they have been vilified and asked to foot the bill for original sin or crimes that they've never committed.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

They owe each of us 300k.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

So I don't care how they get the money.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's not my problem. I just want my money.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

A debt is owed.

[Steve]

You owe a debt, you have to pay it. And if you marginalize that entire segment, that voice of the country, that will lead to, quote, unquote, radicalization. And if this country wants to avoid that, or at the very least as we've done in the past, understand that there needs to be a major course correction in the approach to communication. That needs to go both ways. And that's why this time, I didn't visit the barbershop merely to listen, but to communicate a very real set of grievances that could bubble into massive consequences. This one goes a little bit of a different direction compared to last time. This is black and white on the gray issue. And that's Stevie right there. Blue shirt, Blue shirt. Oh, Steven. I met Cedric. I think I scared him. I think he was doing all right. Yeah, man. How you doing? Good to see you. I need it. You guys all have your. Your beards nice and right. I just. I've never learned how to do this. Oh, I see what it is. It's a power move. You have me sitting lower.

[Unidentified White Man]

Yeah. So we can all look down on you.

[Steve]

No, thanks. Well, they said you guys got some people coming in here after the last one.

[Unidentified White Man]

Yeah, a couple people came came to it.

[Steve]

I think this is the place where white and black people have conversations.

[Unidentified White Man]

So it was funny. The first person that came. The first person that came last time was from. He said. And he said this out of his own mouth. He was like, I'm Indian, but he had on a maga hat. Okay. And he walked in and was like, hey, I saw you guys on a crowded. Can I get a cut here? Yeah, I guess so, man.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Come on.

[Steve]

And did you have your hand on your piece? You're like, I don't know if you come? Nah.

[Unidentified White Man]

Because he didn't come. He didn't come like that. He didn't have a backpack and the ski mask on. Yeah, he didn't have that on.

[Steve]

Was he nice? Was he good? He was cool. Yeah. What do you guys think, like, when you see someone with a maga hat? Because I know we were kind of talking about that last time.

[Unidentified White Man]

It depends on how they. Depends on how they present themselves.

[Steve]

To me. Yeah.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

For me.

[Steve]

Well, okay, so like, what would present themselves in a way that would be like, decent versus piece of.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Yeah, some.

[Unidentified White Man]

You know how some people. Some people carry that.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

That, that.

[Unidentified White Man]

That air of superiority.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

And if you present that to me, I'm very conscious of that. If you present that to me, I'm gonna respond appropriately. Yeah, that's just me personally.

[Steve]

What would be like, an air of superiority?

[Unidentified White Man]

Like, just like certain things you say in conversation and, you know, and like you said, just in the. In the physical nature of these chairs. Well, in conversation, you can physically go up and down and put yourself above or beneath. So when people do that kind of stuff.

[Steve]

Yeah. You know, it's funny that you mentioned that, because I actually. When I do the change of minds and sit with people, I actually kind of slump my shoulders and deliberately kind of make myself smaller just to not. It's like, you know, was it the crab that has the red under his claws is showing danger? So I don't wear red because apparently that signifies poison. But. Yeah. No, there's all these body languages experts. Now you watching tv, and I'd like. This seems like horseshit. Like, he looks to the left so you can tell he's lying.

[Unidentified White Man]

Yeah, some of it is horse.

[Steve]

I saw him on camera. He killed his girlfriend with a butter dish. I don't give a. What he says.

[Unidentified White Man]

He took too long to say that answer. He had to think about it. No, he thinks about thinking about what he wants to say. Yeah, you don't just spit out. What do you say?

[Steve]

Last time we talked, we were kind of just. And the reason was just like, you Know, often you see in news, people just kind of siphon themselves off right into an echo chamber. And I thought it was good. We were just kind of able to see other perspectives. Where do you think the country is now? Like with that?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Like, is that a question?

[Steve]

Yeah. Race relations between. Because last time I wanted to get your perspective. And there's a perspective now in the white community. None of us are an ambassador for the entire community. But things have changed quite a bit the last last year and a half. Temperatures have. Have gone up. But what do you guys think? What do you think? We are in the position.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I'd like to chime in on that. Yeah, I'm asking you ask that question. There are a lot of social and economic dynamics at play that have certainly gone, in my opinion, in the wrong direction. I don't think that people really understand the gravity of where we're headed. We are vastly sliding into an autocratic regime here. Yeah, absolutely. I'll give you several reasons. See, in order to have. You can't have a one dimensional approach when you're wanting to continue to lead from a global perspective.

[Unidentified White Man]

All right.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

What you see here today is an isolationism approach which has never worked in the past because we don't have an understanding of geography and history. All right. And I'll just simply close by saying, you got to understand something. The rest of the world is grossly infuriated with the way America has taken shape. And not only that, we're ceding all our best opportunities to China.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Right.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Look around you in the relationships they're fostering with everybody else, which includes Canada, Mexico, and they've even gone as far down into the Latin American corridor, fortifying their bases while we're still hollering that we're the greatest.

[Steve]

You talking about China like in the Panama Canal?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Not just the Panama Canal. Let's pivot from the Panama Canal and let's look at the long term strategy they have now where they just signed an agreement with Mexico to build another canal bypassing the Panama Canal. And when you look at the whole transatlantic corridor, where you've got now Brazil and Canada as well as Mexico, trading and stopping in Peru, where China has a huge presence at circumventing completely the navigation, the use that comes with having to use Panama Canal. So we'll avoid conflict with America and just simply go around America. Is what's happening here.

[Steve]

Talking about China?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Absolutely.

[Steve]

Yeah. No, I mean, I want to agree with the first part. Autocratic. I think China needs to be dealt with. And this is the first time we are. I'm Canadian. Well, I was raised in Canada. Canada sucks. Canada is a dog country. Canada. The kind of we're doing. Right. You can't do this in Canada. If you say something too offensive or I say something too off, you will be jailed in Canada. That's the thing. So I'm fine with the US Being the best country. I came here from Canada because, I mean, I have friends who were arrested. I had a friend stand up comic, was fined for telling a joke. I don't think people realize how good we have it here in this country compared to other countries.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But that's the painstaking part about it all, is the fact that, you know, I've always been one to say, and I believe this firmly, freedom is not a right, it's a privilege. Until you wake up the next morning and find out you don't have it anymore.

[Steve]

Yeah. It also comes with duties.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's what I was about to say. It also comes with responsibilities, because while we. While we free to speak and say what we want and I went to Montreal a few months ago, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Steve]

Bet you saw a lot of T on signs. That's all it is. No, I didn't. It's just strip clubs. Our Times Square is a giant strip club.

[Unidentified White Man]

It was a couple of them.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

But no, like, there is responsibility in, like, everybody's from different places, different backgrounds. Some of us from. From certain backgrounds know, like, running your mouth too much in a certain space can get your ass whooped.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

Like, you free to say what you want. You're just not free from the consequences. Like the consequences that come with you saying the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong person.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

And that's where we all have responsibilities and what we say and when we say it.

[Steve]

Yeah. Problem though, too. And that's. I was kind of talking more domestically. The problem with that idea is a lot of people are offended by different things. And so people get their ass whooped for something they didn't say. Right. That's the real thing. I don't know if you guys were following the stabbing there on that train in Charlotte Arena. Zarutska, last time I was asking where you guys thought we were, you know, as far as in the country relations. Like, have you guys heard of the term black fatigue? You guys know what that means?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Since the last time you came, that's become a thing.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

I was about to say that's just become a recent.

[Steve]

And do you know what it means?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm not sure.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

What I was going to ask that.

[Steve]

Yeah. It's a term that's being used by people in the white community by and large. Again, saying they feel like they've been victimized and they're tired of taking that. You know, that was a girl who was dying alone in public and that was a guy who was let out 14 times. 14 times, including violent crimes in the name of racial justice. Right. He didn't have to post bail, he didn't have to appear back in court. This is not the first time he's assaulted someone.

[Unidentified White Man]

How do we know that was in the interest of racial justice as opposed to just being a judge said it. A up attempt at justice, period. Like the legal system has its flaws.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

And people have been making complaints about that for decades. Right. But that's just. To me, that's a mental health thing more than just a black and white thing.

[Steve]

Well, I'll tell you why. Cause white people are saying it now, right? Not just white people are saying, hey, we're in citizens.

[Unidentified White Man]

It makes it a bigger thing.

[Steve]

Well, because, you know, I'm. White people are 12 times as likely to be killed by a black person any other way around. I'm just gonna shoot you straight. It's not even close. Where across the country?

[Unidentified White Man]

Where like not in the United States.

[Steve]

I mean, we're not talking about Ghana.

[Unidentified White Man]

In like. Yeah, what I'm saying is in white communities, or in quote unquote, so called.

[Steve]

White communities across the country, the rate is a black man or person because most murders men. There are very few female murders. 12 times more likely to kill a white person the other way around. And then you look at the average amount of times that someone in this country is arrested before they're brought in for killing, charged with murder. Do you know how many times they're arrested on average before they murder? 11 times.

[Unidentified White Man]

Once again, the justice system's got its flaws and people have been complaining about that for years. We spend more time trying to fix that than trying to complain about the white versus black of it all.

[Steve]

Well, I think just like I was trying to listen to all communities last time, I think this is something that's unavoidable. If this community, if enough white people get pissed off. Look, we're living in New York now. We're getting killed in record numbers. Or Detroit at 12 times the rate. And our system, three strikes in California. Right. That was a three strike policy. The reason that was changed, they said it was racist. Crime went down in black communities, 30%. But now people are looking at Their cities going, this is a hellscape. And the murder has skyrocketed because people said in the name of racial justice, like three felonies, you're out.

[Unidentified White Man]

Because crime is crime. Right. But crime is usually gonna be higher, concentrated in areas where there's high poverty. So typically the areas that's high poverty in this country are areas with people with this color skin. So that's why you're gonna have that. That's why I said those numbers could be skewed and made to manipulate to look like. Oh, yeah. That's why I said not at 12 times the rate. 9 In suburban neighborhoods, white people are not in danger. And that's what this kind of fear mongering tells them is. You're in danger because you're 12 times more more likely to get killed by a black person you live in. Ain't nobody coming after you.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

You know what I'm saying?

[Unidentified White Man]

Like, nobody tripping on you. But these people just as scared as them other folks.

[Steve]

They are if they get on a bus.

[Unidentified White Man]

Not necessarily.

[Steve]

They are if they get on a trip.

[Unidentified White Man]

That lady. That lady wasn't in danger because that man was black. That lady was in danger because that man was crazy.

[Steve]

Nope.

[Unidentified White Man]

That man was mentally insane.

[Steve]

But why was he back?

[Unidentified White Man]

Family members. He had his own family members call the hospital to try to get him committed. He told his sister he killed that woman because he thought she was trying to read his mind.

[Steve]

Yep. Why was he let out? And I'm not saying it's because he's black.

[Unidentified White Man]

Yeah.

[Steve]

I'm saying people look at it though.

[Unidentified White Man]

The judge said part of black fatigue.

[Steve]

He's insane. Right. We agree.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's a black and white issue.

[Steve]

He was deemed not fit to stand trial. Right.

[Unidentified White Man]

Right now Institutionalized.

[Steve]

Right. The IOU policy. Meaning you don't have to pay bail. You don't even have to stay here until you're actually convicted. You just say you'll come back.

[Unidentified White Man]

Right. Which is messed up. Yeah.

[Steve]

The judge, Teresa Stokes black woman said, well, this is about racial justice. We need to be softer on crime. So that's her reasoning. That's why he was out. And you can find dozens of examples.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's her misguided reasoning.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

And that's policy.

[Unidentified White Man]

But that systemically, it's not representative of a whole.

[Steve]

It's not.

[Unidentified White Man]

It's not.

[Steve]

No. And look, we always have to say, not all. Not all. Not all. Like, not all white people wear MAGA hats and are dumb ass pieces of racist. But we have all been accused of racism, sexism, misogyny homophobia. What I'm saying is black fatigue is white people going, you know what? I know I'm not racist. And I know that we're dealing with record crime and I know that I'm more at risk. And they have negative interactions and they're constantly told that they're not allowed to voice their opinion because they're white. And if those people get pissed off, like that's where we actually could end up with some kind of. I'm telling you, I see this brewing. I see people who were milquetoast, white, suburban, who are becoming actually racist. Now, not all of them, but I've seen people actually become racist because they get mugged, their store gets looted and nothing gets done. They're going, and if I say something, it's turned into a racing. I'm telling you what, that's where it's coming from. At what point do we have a talk and go like, okay, let's reform justice, but we have to be honest as to why it was reformed in the first place. This guy, it's not even the only one. It's every three days someone's being offed. Yeah.

[Unidentified White Man]

But at the same time, let's transfer that over to, you know, I mean, there's a lot of unsafe things in this world. Like getting mugged by a black person is not the paramount unsafe thing. There's school shootings, there's road rage, there's all of that. Yep. And the primary, the primary people that commit a lot of those are people who don't have this skin.

[Steve]

No.

[Unidentified White Man]

So if botch. Switch it over. If black people say, well, we getting fed up and we tired of all these school shootings and all of these road raids and all that, who do we say something to? Who hears our voice?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

And when does the white fatigue.

[Unidentified White Man]

When does the white fatigue kick in?

[Steve]

Well, we've been hearing about white. That's the point. Right. We've been hearing about it all our lives, about white fatigue, about systemic discrimination. That's been done.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's a new question here.

[Steve]

That's why we've done systemic justice reform that has led to more crime. Right. That's the reason for no three strike policy. That's the reason for cashless bail. That's the reason for catch and release. The reason for it in the wake of Black Lives Matter, George Floyd riot, Summer of Love was, we're going to reform crime, we're going to reform the justice system. And it's gotten worse everywhere it's been. And then when white people leave Those neighborhoods. Well, now it's white flight. If they come in, it's gentrification. And I'm telling you, there are a lot of people who are pissed off and they're not going to sit down and have this conversation and be real about it. And they're going, well, what happens when sometimes they keep their mouth shut about everything?

[Unidentified White Man]

Nobody tells you you have to keep their mouths.

[Steve]

That's how they feel. That's how they feel.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I don't believe white people have to keep their mouth shut. I think white people don't speak up about a lot of the things that they do and they perpetuate that affects us negatively. That's the stuff that nobody wants to. The issues aren't made about those things, you know, so I'm, you know, I really respect the platform that you have because you do have open and honest conversations. And I have to say, I don't believe that those numbers about the black people murdering white people are correct. I don't believe those numbers are correct.

[Steve]

They are correct. What if they are? What if I'm not lying to you?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

If you're not, then I've been misled and I've been isolated from realistic numbers. But I know in this country, from the time that we got here and until now, there's never been homage hordes of black people that just go out and maraud and menace white people. Now, interactions happen and things do occur. I'm not saying that they don't, but not by enlarging number. We can't be this small a percentage of the overall population and still have the numbers that people try to perpetuate onto us. See, black people do more harm to other black people than we do to other white people.

[Steve]

Well, that's true. That's true because people weren't close.

[Unidentified White Man]

We also have historical evidence of groups of white people attacking and chasing black people.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

So it's, it's coming after. So when, when people say it's not happening now. So when people.

[Unidentified White Man]

I'm just saying.

[Steve]

And that's the point is we're at a precipice right now.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's a part of the historical condition.

[Steve]

Well, sure, but someone today, Someone today.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. I wasn't finished making my point. You know, when the, the, like I said, black fatigue. That's the newest, that's the newest mantra that's been put out into society to make people think that, okay, they tired of black people. They tired of what you said, that we can't say anything about black people. We can't do well when you hold all the power, when you hold all the economic rights, when you hold all the things that make this country move, when you're in charge of those things. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know what? I'll put it like this. White people got the firecrackers, we got to stem.

[Steve]

That's it.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Y' all got the power. The power is placed outside of the black community.

[Steve]

Can I please.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

We're charged with all the negative things. Those are the things that are really generally coincide with how people relate to us. The bad stuff that go wrong with this world is the black people fault. We the smallest. We the smallest part of this country. Remember that. You know what I'm saying? Beside the immigrants that come here.

[Steve]

We.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Have been tasked with the negative, the criminal, the immoral. That's us. And that's what we consider. That's white fatigue. But you know what we do? We just say that's just how it's always been. So we don't make up words for it or terms for it. So now you have a frustrated group of white constituents that feel like, oh, we can't say anything. We have to do this, we have to do that so you don't be deemed as it. Well, if you weren't that in the beginning to start with, there will be no need for the further reform or the feelings that you have, you can't say anything about. Because you done treated us like for so long and people finally stood up and said, hey, you gotta stop treating us like. Now that you wanna feel like, you know, things aren't going in the manner that you want them. Now we want the right to keep saying those things.

[Steve]

What if your premise is completely flawed? And what I mean by that is, if we're trying to understand it, you said you have power and all those institutions. What if, for example, you have an entire generation of people, young white men, women, who if they apply to a college or apply to a job, they don't have a grant. There's no Pell grant, there's no type of subsidy, there's no DEI initiative. As a matter of fact, they're likely to be passed over. They hold no institutional power. And when you say black people haven't done anything, think of this white person, a young white person, Because I'm seeing some people become radicalized and it can become a problem. And then they see billions of dollars and riots and damages all summer long. And then they go, why is this happening? Black lives matter, right? So they're going to make that connection. Now they have no institutional power but if they go into a neighborhood that's largely black, they're going to get the kicked out of them and they're being blamed for something that supposedly their racist forefather did that they have nothing to do with. You think we're ever going to have unity? This is the problem. Unity. If let's say your dad's a or your grandfather's a and you walk up and you slap his teenager, you now have made that person hate you for life. And that's what I'm seeing with young. Not even my gener younger people are going I had nothing to do with this. They came up during the riots, they've come up under DEI and they're seeing a 12 time murder rate, skyrocketing crime and any proposals they make not holding institutional power shut down as racism.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Now why was DEI even instituted in the first place? Because for the majority of time that black people have been in this country and being free, we've been denied so much. Somebody somewhere had to put some things in place to provide access of some kind.

[Steve]

If you believe that that's fine. But you can't tell that young white kid who had nothing to do with it that he should just sit down and take it. Especially when they're getting killed at 12 times a day.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's what America has been telling us for the longest.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

The young white kid had nothing to.

[Steve]

Do with a lot that has not in my lifetime.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Dei, the young person of this generation as you said that feels they're misled by being mistreated by the.

[Steve]

I'm just using as an example, they don't hold any institutional power. Young white people don't. They don't have an advantage, not yet.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Because they're young white people. They have an advance to where they're middle aged white people. Where the power comes. See what black people once again when you got colleges that denied access to black people, you can't come here. Something had to be put in place. Well look, y' all got to let some black people come here. Y' all can't just.

[Steve]

That started happening long before dei.

[Unidentified White Man]

Long.

[Steve]

Before black people were admitted into colleges.

[Unidentified White Man]

Hbcus.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Hold on, what I'm trying to say.

[Unidentified White Man]

My bad, my bad.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm trying to make it clear he's.

[Steve]

Trying to do a senior wences and talk through you. So that's you.

[Unidentified White Man]

I get it.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

DEI is just a new way of wrapping affirmative action. Yeah, affirmative action had to be put in place because there was the Access being denied. So somewhere, somebody, legislation had to be put in place. Well, look, we can't just exclude all of them. So somewhere, somewhere along the line, they have to be allowed some access. Okay, that was put in place. Now fast forward to now. Those same things that are put in place for those people back in those generations that are still in place, they're not excluding people from getting the places. That's what. They're just still trying to keep those doors open so that those black people that were coming through that door can still get in. Because if you remove those over time, we will be denied the access.

[Steve]

If a black person has lower sats, Right. And lower gpa, should he get in over an Asian or a white person?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Let me ask if the.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

If the. If the.

[Steve]

If all.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

If all. If all things are supposed to be laid out equal. No, you shouldn't get. If you don't have it.

[Steve]

That's what's happening.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

It takes to get in.

[Unidentified White Man]

No, but it is happening.

[Steve]

And I'm telling you, young, white. But these are pissed.

[Unidentified White Man]

I'm telling the majority of what's happening.

[Steve]

It is happening.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

First of all, DEI has been more beneficial. Look, I'm a former commercial contractor, all right? DEI and affirmative action have benefited white people vastly more so than black people. All you gotta do is look at the. All you gotta do is look at the business ownership or what have you. And you notice that as long as that white female happens to be 51%, then she qualifies as a minority and a double minority because she's white. She's among the minority in business ownership and she happens to be a female. Right? So you look at that based on population dynamics, and that automatically tells you this whole thing about affirmative. This whole thing about DEI was, number one, not as much targeted towards blacks as much as it was targeted towards minorities, which includes that lgbt. Right? So when we talk about that, we need to really deal with the real problem. And as it relates to the rice. As it relates to the rice. Let me tell you something right now, listen. In the black community, I'll be the first thing. Now, we do have intractable problems that are not going to be solved in one conversation. But what I'm going to say about that, as well as the reason why the black community becomes so infuriated, all right, is when you see gross negligence of justice or misjustice happening and nobody does anything. When this guy's. When this guy kneeled on this man's neck was going back to George Floyd. Look, if he, if he had done Something when he was subdued and on the ground, what was the real reason for kneeling on his neck exactly, except to inflict fatal harm?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

What was it?

[Steve]

I can tell you exactly what it was. And I can tell you why you're not recognizing the problem. Because the opinion polls, and I'm not saying right or wrong, the opinion polls have changed on George Floyd since I last spoke with you. You know why all the body cam footage came out? You know why? You know why? Because he was there for 12, 15 minutes, asked to be put in the car. They put him in the car, asked for air conditioning, gave him air conditioning, asked to be taken out of the car. They took him out of the car. He wouldn't stop moving. People have watched it now and go, you know what? It's not what I thought it was. You know how many times he was arrested before that? 9. He shouldn't have been. You know what would have saved him? Three strike policy. He robbed a woman at gunpoint with a child in the house. And so white people look at it. Young white people, right? Who you have to understand, during COVID this is a whole generation of people, white people did not have any opportunities during COVID They didn't get to go to the graduation. College. Black, white, all of them, right? It's a generation that's pissed, rightfully so. They got screwed. I think we can agree on that. They're going I to want. I watched my city burn down for a guy who was arrested nine times and committed violent crimes against women. What now? You know, let me say that's a travesty of justice. He shouldn't be out in the public.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Let me say this to you.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

How many felonies does President Trump have on his record yet he was still allowed to occupy the most.

[Steve]

No criminal felonies.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

He has no criminal felonies, but he's got moral felonies, which if there was a court of justice for that, he probably would be tried a long time ago. I mean, let's talk about it.

[Steve]

Is this where we all get on board with crazy white bitches who accuse women of rape?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Like I thought we fucking.

[Steve]

She accused 26 men of rape. That crazy.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Now here's the reality, though. And when you look at the convergence of this new. This new agenda, where you're going strictly in the blue cities, why is it that most of those blue cities also happen to be occupied? The areas they're going in are heavily occupied by minorities. Why is that?

[Steve]

So black people tend to vote Democrat and they're run by Democrats. Detroit you can look at it. You can look at Chicago, Is that what you mean?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I mean no, that's not what I'm asking at all. What I'm asking you is, like I said, when with this all out assault right now, just last night they were talking about something in Chicago, right? But at one o' clock in the morning you had people in military gear, were having helicopters and all this kind of stuff like this here, not just knocking doors down, but dragging people out.

[Steve]

Because it's the murder capital of the country. You just said black people are more harmed by this. We don't want to take out murderers.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

No, no, no, no, no. I think really what true was. You're confusing what I'm trying to say to you.

[Steve]

You want the National Guard in Chicago?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

No, what I'm trying to say to you is if we're going to talk about the problem, let's talk about the problem in its totality. The fact about it is when you talk about white America being pissed, white America is going to always find a reason that doesn't fit their narrative or what have you. But white America fails to talk about. And what never ceases to amaze me is the fact that the biggest threat is not going to come from blacks. The biggest threat is coming from within. You look at the average person that's been committing some of the most heinous crimes over the days is 22 to 29 year old white male, right? Look at how, look at how they were.

[Steve]

No, it's just not true, man. Violent crime, you just said, like you said, a small percentage of the country, about 12 to 13%, 50% of the violent crime. But the murder, a 12 times likelihood, that's a skew. If you just so you don't listen to them.

[Unidentified White Man]

No, I said that that particular stat is skewed.

[Steve]

It's not skewed. These are from the FBI, doj. And you know what else we look at? We look at Roland Fryer from Harvard who conducted black guy, black professor, really respectable guy, honorable man, conducted a study and he came out, he said, yeah, all of my research says that Black men are 0% more likely to be shot by police officers than whites. Black people got so mad at him, he reconducted the study. A black man from Harvard and he came to the same conclusion and now he's not black enough.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Wait, wait, so let me see if I understand you clearly.

[Unidentified White Man]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

You're saying according to this guy's statistics, right, that Black people are 0% less likely to be shot by a white police Officer.

[Steve]

A liberal professor at Harvard. Yes. And he conducted it twice because black people said what you're saying. He goes, look, I was as surprised as you. I was trying to find how much worse it is. My data showed me it's not. He reconducted the study an entire time. Now, he did come to the conclusion that an officer is 18 times more likely to be shot than a black man by an officer. This is a black liberal who studies statistics. At what point do you listen to.

[Unidentified White Man]

Him once again, and I don't believe him. That's you, too.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

And if he comes out and say something of the sort, there's no telling the backlash that he may not get. Listen, there are token blacks in every society. I mean, all you have to do is look back throughout, and there we go.

[Steve]

Uncle Tom, this guy.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Come on. No, but here's my thing. Here's my thing, Steve. Right? I'm not alleging that the guy wasn't Uncle Tom, but let's be frankly, honest. How many shootings have happened in most recent history that have been. That have involved black men that have been unarmed? And you sit here and use that analogy that black men. Listen, as a totally blind individual. Listen. I'm even apprehensive. There was an incident where the police stopped us, and it was my cousin and I. My cousin is a retired military vet or what have you, right? And immediately when we got out of the car out of fear of possibly being shot, the first thing I did was, was raise my cane and say, officer, I said, listen, I am totally blind. Before we get out of hand with this right now, I shouldn't have to have had to react like that. But when you start looking at what's really happening in this country, many times these. Because, see, here's the deal. I don't care if you put on a uniform. You can't legislate the heart of a man and his intent, all right? And many times these officers do allow that badge to give them. Excuse me. Impunity to operate and exercise their racism. Let's be honest here, Steve.

[Steve]

Some. Some of them do. By the way, I just find it funny that when I came up and shook your hand, you didn't tell me you were blind this whole time. I was like, I must have woke you up. You could have said, dude, I'm blind.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm like, my bad.

[Steve]

I'm sorry. This whole thing, you just throw that out there like a cluster bomb.

[Unidentified White Man]

I'm like, say, you should have waved his pain when you came here.

[Steve]

I feel like an in the middle of the room.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's what I told you. When you said, is he sleep behind the glasses? I was like, no, he just can't see you.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I thought you'd make it a shot joke. Oh, my God.

[Steve]

Here's this kind of. Yeah, it's okay. He forget he blind sometimes. I had no idea.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

No, man.

[Unidentified White Man]

But you know me.

[Steve]

Yeah, but I do, but here. Yeah, I agree. You can't legislate what's in a man's heart. Yeah, but you can't throw out everything. You can't go that scat skewed. That black guy from Harvard who was always a liberal, who did it twice is skewed. He can't throw it out.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

How often do you see black police killing unarmed white people?

[Steve]

Actually, how often do you swipe?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

How often do you. Do you see that?

[Steve]

Well, I tell you, actually, the stats show that when you're dealing with armed white people versus black armed people, white armed people are more likely to be shot by the cops.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

In black, white armed people are more likely to kill police officers.

[Steve]

Let's call the stats awash on that. Here's what I do know. Everyone wanted the body cam footage. And I agree. I was like, we should have body cam footage. We should have accountability for police officers. Right. And we were to believe after the era. Remember, we went through Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, Mike Brown, obviously George Floyd. There were so many that you could use as examples. We thought that we'd have a rash of body cam footage showing us the police brutality. You haven't seen body cam footage of note in the last year. Once that footage came out, it's about a 20 to 1 ratio where you see someone getting violent with an officer. We have not seen what we thought we would see. And now people are going, okay, so maybe not the body cam footage. Right. We thought we'd see all the abuse.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Well, jump off of that point. What about the body cam footage where we see white people and white police and the white person, the white citizen, is being belligerent with the police, but the police showing extreme restraint in dealing with that person. Whereas black people will reach for your wallet. Bow you get shot. I got a phone in my hand. Bow you get shot.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

And that's not.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm not doing anything. Bow you get shot.

[Steve]

The stats don't reflect it, but white people are being killed in record numbers right now, and they're pissed. And if you keep just not listening to them. Look, like you said, white people are majority of this country. You have young white people who are getting more and more mad. I'm just telling you the truth. They're mad because this thing. Here's why. Here's why. They go, look, I'm 12 times more likely to be killed by a black person than you are. Than you are a white person. And you go, well, that doesn't count. They go, look, my dad's business got burned down. My city got burned down. I've been accused of being a racist, even though I'm not. And I'm looking at this right now, and I'm not allowed to have an opinion. And I can't go into certain neighborhoods because I get my ass kicked. And then you just say, yeah, yeah, but you've had systemic power. That is a surefire way to breed racism.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Let's be frank about that, Steve. Now, first of all, here's why I disagree with you emphatically, right? Number one, when it is historically proven, when there are riots, and this is the crazy part, most times we, as blacks, we tend to riot in our own neighborhood for the same reason why we're not 12 times likely to kill white person because of that fact that the penalty is going to be much harsh, okay? If black people really were going to. If black people were really the kind of threat and minister to white people as we're going to sit here and say that they are, never mind the stats. There's no way in the world that most of us will still be here, because guess what? You guys will find a way to deal with the problem if it is from a multiplicity of angles. All right? So like I say, what I'm saying is right now, we did deal with it. Who controlled that narrative, Steve?

[Steve]

We did. We did deal with it. You know what? We dealt with it in Liberals in Blue Cities, Cashless bail. Cashless bail, Catch and release. We did everything that was demanded. Defunded the police in certain neighborhoods.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Guess what blacks ever asked for defunding the police.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah, I will say it's mostly black women. It's mostly black activist women. They're not representative of black.

[Unidentified White Man]

Black man.

[Steve]

I get that.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Just like the guy who. Just like the guy who killed the lady on the bus that you were talking about earlier, right? He doesn't represent black America. And what he did.

[Steve]

I mean, listen, here's what he does. Just listen to me. Here. Here's what he does. Here's what he does to a lot of people. This is what I'm just trying to. Because last time I sat and listened. But I want you to hear something really important. Here's where he does. Young, white, that person's parents, that person's relatives, look at it and go, wait a second, this guy was out 14 times. And the reason he was out 14 times was because a black female judge in the name of restorative justice who has received funding from NGOs said we're going to have cashless bail and catch and release and the IOU policy in the name of racial justice. So people are going, my daughter's dead. Because it would have been racist to keep this guy in jail. You need to understand that. Right, but you understand that though, right? Because you just made those same judgments about people who existed 150 years ago. Yeah. This is someone's sister.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Her flawed judgment does not represent the opinion of black people, number one.

[Steve]

Okay. It represents a systemic correction.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Correction. And you know what the problem really is when you defund, when you defund opportunities to provide adequate psychiatric institutionalization for those kind of people. That wouldn't have happened. Because let me tell you something, as, even as a black person, as a judge, if you come before me 11 times with all the information that you provided me with, you know what? Before I release you, you know what? I'm going to have you committed to an institution. Because number one, the greater good is for me to preserve public integrity. And that's on both sides of the spectrum. I don't give a damn if you're black or white.

[Steve]

Why do you think they're not committing him to an institution?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Because there's no funding available.

[Steve]

No, no. They were shut down in the name of restorative racial justice. That's why he wasn't institutionalized.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

And his family.

[Steve]

His family, he should have been in prison too.

[Unidentified White Man]

His family pushed against it in certain eye like they were. There's certain some of them cases where.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

They were in court.

[Unidentified White Man]

His family was saying don't put him in there.

[Steve]

I know, and who gives a.

[Unidentified White Man]

But I'm just saying that's, that's part of it. But when you only include the part that says the judge, you're not giving the whole story. And that's what media ends up doing. That, that creates these tensions in people. They only, they strong man, straw man's conversation only tell part of it.

[Steve]

Not a stroke. The tension is there. That's what I'm trying to tell you. The tension is already there. White people are afraid to go in black neighborhoods because people be afraid to go to school.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Cuz a white person going to come shoot the school up. Cuz every time we see that, that's what keeps church.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Now you're going to ignore.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Now you're going to ignore.

[Steve]

I'm scared to go to church. You're scared to go to church.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But you sitting in the barber shop with almost 12 black men. Come on, Steve, now let's be realistic.

[Steve]

Who do you think's more at risk sitting down right now? Exactly. He know he not in danger around us more. We don't do that. You know, I just watch my friend die.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Let me say this. Know what? I know what I know what bothers me about white people. And this is kind of weird. No, no, not everything.

[Steve]

Not everything. But we smell like wet dog or some. I've heard all this stuff. Let me tell you what.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Let me tell you what part of me about white people. Let's be honest here, because I work with a lot of white people, so I have nothing against them at all. Let me be honest with you. But the problem that I.

[Steve]

The biggest problem.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Problem that I have is that you. You constantly get bombarded with the excuses.

[Steve]

All right?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

When you really come down to it, let's be honest, man, and let's be really truthful with one another. Ask yourself, what do you expect when you look at architectural oppression, economic depravity and social disparity?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

What would you call it?

[Steve]

Bad decisions?

[Unidentified White Man]

Huh?

[Steve]

Bad decision.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Bad decisions.

[Steve]

Yeah. I think right now, in 2020, it's bad decisions. I think everyone can make better decisions.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

And you know what? I'll even go here with you in all fairness. I think that's absolutely true. So my question for you is how do we move past this? Yeah, how do we move past this?

[Steve]

I agree with you. I agree here's. And I think maybe we'll find some common ground here if we agree there is personal accountability and bad decisions. And I think we also all agree that feminist white are the worst demographic in the country, along with lesbians.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

There's a great book that says that they were her problem.

[Steve]

Let me just clarify. And I mean that angry white feminist bitches and lesbians. Because if they didn't vote, we wouldn't have half of the. But and this is one thing I appreciate about black men, that white men are so Black men can talk about these things and black men are okay being masculine. White men are told it's sexist. There's a lot there personal accountability decisions. Now just take that and apply it. What you kind of just did here is you blamed white people without realizing it for systemic discrimination. And that removes autonomy from a white person to be accountable and also rewarded for their good decisions. So if we agree it's bad decisions, personal accountability, we'd all be against reparations, and we'd all be against the criminal justice reform.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm definitely for reparations.

[Steve]

See that to me, you said, excuse me. That sounds like an excuse to me. You ain't paying me back.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

You ain't paid me for what you owe me.

[Steve]

What did I take from you?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

You can't start another bill.

[Steve]

What did I take from you until.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

You pay this old bill.

[Steve]

What did I take from you?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

You didn't take but your answer.

[Steve]

But you just said you.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

When I say you, I meant it as a youthful business, but can you.

[Steve]

Understand why white people hear it and get pissed off? Yeah, yeah, but they.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But they not mad about the advantages.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

That were built into their lives.

[Steve]

So you want young people to pay. It sounds like an excuse.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Even without paying us back. Even without paying us back. Steve, know my thoughts are on this here. Give us an opportunity to exercise our ability and our autonomy. Let me give you a perfect example. There's a gal right now. Her name is Joy Reid. Look up her.

[Steve]

Oh, I know Joy Reid.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Look at her educational background. You don't think Harper gave her a degree just because she was a black person or dei, do you?

[Steve]

I think she's an idiot.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Okay, so.

[Steve]

But not because she's black. But she's an idiot.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Okay? So you're entitled to.

[Steve]

I think Van Jones is smart, and I disagree with him. Joy Reid has said things that are so verifiably untrue.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

It's his.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Okay? So as a man, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna indulge you and say, hey, you know what? I'm not gonna indulge you. I'm gonna respect your opinion, your frame of thought on that.

[Steve]

Right.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I beg to differ tremendously. But nevertheless, though, that. That's why we're having this open discussion. But let's really talk about where we need to go from here on. And that is the fact that black. Black people have every sense of entitlement as it relates to having reparations. And I'm gonna. Because nobody has ever been as more loyal to white people, despite the treatment than black people have. Right? Nobody. You show me one race, you know what? They make options and opportunities available when other ethnicities come here or what have you that we will never get a chance to have. Right? And then they turn around and tell.

[Steve]

Us, loyal in what way?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Stop asking about reparations whenever we want to ask for equality and fairness. It's a problem.

[Steve]

So white America, so it spends several trillion dollars. When is it enough?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Wait, spend $7 trillion on what? Spend it on.

[Steve]

Let's go. Okay, let's go back to Lyndon Johnson.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Model Lyndon Johnson.

[Steve]

You talking about the war on property?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, 1965.

[Steve]

How was that done?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

All right, but here's the deal.

[Steve]

What about the Department of Education?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

So, so now you're saying the Department of Education. Let's go back to Department of Education.

[Steve]

Okay, so my point is, these were. Hold on, hold on. No, no, I was. I didn't answer your question. All right, the reason that this was given, right. When you're talking about the Great Society program, the reason. When you look at the Model Cities program, urban planning, $8 billion in Detroit, adjusted for inflation. The reason that. And I don't know if you know this, black students in this country get more spending per people than white students. I don't know if you know that. That's an actual fact. Even in impoverished neighborhoods through public funding. These were the reparations that were asked of white people throughout each decade given and then were told, no, no, that's not the real one. They were given whether you like them or not, whether you think they work or not. And by the way, I think they're dog. I think we should completely suspend the federal Department of Education. I think the Texas state could do a much better job. But those were done in the name of racial reparations because they were demanded. And now it's not enough. I agree with you because it's. So why would they do it?

[Unidentified White Man]

It's not just because it was done in the name of racial justice, that it was done incorrectly.

[Steve]

That's the reason for it.

[Unidentified White Man]

I'm saying that's the reason for it. But along the way of trying to achieve racial justice, you just did it wrong.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But let me ask you.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's my point.

[Steve]

You say people did it the way we were asked.

[Unidentified White Man]

The reason it was right. You're. Your approach was wrong.

[Steve]

So now you make some 20 year old kid pay.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

No, but you came out and said something. You said that you're against the Department of Education. Right? Let me tell you something.

[Steve]

Federal department.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Yeah, federal Department of Education. Let me tell you something that has come up in a lot of circles that I'm always talking about. As a person with a disability. The Department of Education does a lot more in terms of. Even with the enforcement of section 504. Right. 504 says that you must have accommodation for individuals with disabilities. Right? Perfect example of when you walked in. When you walked in or someone just walked in. Did you hear what that thing said? Right, Left, Go down to Austin. Let me tell you something. When you suspend the Department of Education, you're also telling the remainder 36 million people in this country who have disabilities. You know what? Screw you. Figure it out. We don't have to do anything. Okay? And this is another reason, going back.

[Steve]

To what you said with the black.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

America, if you don't have certain mechanisms in place to ensure that there is a fair and level a playing field, right. Guess what? The controlling party that's in power or what have you are not going to say, hey, wait a minute, let's look at this other disenfranchised segment of the community or what have you and see how can we.

[Steve]

I'll disabuse you of that notion. Okay, let me disabuse you of that notion. Go ahead. Over $3 trillion, adjusted for inflation, right. The Department of Education, early 70s, okay. Before that they were run by states. Over $3 trillion. What are math scores? What are literacy scores now in both?

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Depends on what part of the country they're asking that about.

[Unidentified White Man]

Across the board.

[Steve]

Across the board.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Go there, because I'm gonna tell you.

[Steve]

Why you can't go to school. I'll answer the question, then I'll show you an example of something that actually works because we need solutions. They're across the board, down. In other words, $3 trillion. Test scores are worse and they're even worse in poor areas where there's more spending. Do you know where black students in New York City actually do really well? White Catholic schools where they have more students per teacher on average, 35 plus. In other words, they have fewer teachers. It's done privately. Charter school. Now, charter school, School choice is something I support for that means for everyone in this country. Can't do it because it's racist.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Let's look at the academia, though, okay? That's why when you start talking about that, what have you. When you talk about test scores, we can go just south, north versus south, or what have you. Let's look at the quality of education that's in these schools or what have you. Are you going to tell me that it's a standardized academic agenda that's promoted throughout this country? Or is it the fact that some people have a different education level than black? Listen, I work with people.

[Steve]

They're bad across the board.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I work with people every day that are out the north, that have Far excelled in. That's absolutely true. Than we have.

[Steve]

There's no good. There's no good. There's here. And what I'm saying is here's something where we could find common. I've proposed this many people ever we go, look, instead of giving money to a school like you say, some of these schools suck. Right. Instead of just putting. Let's say the average spending is $15,000 per student. That's a rounded number. It's anywhere from 13 to 50. Okay. If instead of putting that money in the administrative costs at a school, what you do is you say, okay, that's a grant. That's a voucher that attaches to the student and they can take it to any school they want. So they have to compete so that kid can now choose where they go to school. Can't do it because it's racist. That's why it's been racist. People say black kids would still be stuck in sh T schools than white kids.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Why? Well, see, that comes because they wouldn't.

[Steve]

Be able to transport themselves out of a bad neighborhood. But right now they're stuck with one school.

[Unidentified White Man]

So.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

So when you break.

[Unidentified White Man]

When you start asking those whys and go down the rabbit hole of why and start asking, okay, well, why would somebody say that? Well, this is why.

[Steve]

Well, I'll tell you why. They really said teachers unions.

[Unidentified White Man]

Because of teachers unions. Yeah.

[Steve]

It doesn't make. In other words. But I get a black kid right.

[Unidentified White Man]

Now because in certain communities where they don't have certain resources, it's a lot of kids. Once again, I live in. I've lived in. I've raised my kids, graduated three kids from. I've. I've been afforded some things in this community that some people down south don't have.

[Steve]

Yeah, right.

[Unidentified White Man]

And I'm. Some of these school events, I'm questioning them, like, how the hell y' all expect us to have jobs and still transport these kids to and from these events all throughout the day. But if them people down there had to do it.

[Steve]

So you think what we're doing now.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Is better because they ain't got transported.

[Unidentified White Man]

Half of them ain't got transportation.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I think we need to go back to the real troops in the realm it.

[Unidentified White Man]

Because what I'm saying, because they're in impoverished areas and we already know based on how we see.

[Steve]

So how do we fix it? We have to pay for everything.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Grocery stores don't say.

[Steve]

Everyone here has a smartphone. You can literally order any food that's ever existed on earth to any.

[Unidentified White Man]

If you're in an area that already has a lack of resources and you already low income. How you gonna order something?

[Steve]

Amazon, one click.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But see here.

[Unidentified White Man]

Come on.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

I think there's a broader problem that we will not discuss. And you know what that is? You've got to go all the way back. This has been an insidious process that's been at work. And the bad part about it is as long as we as white and black America keep fighting among each other, we'll never see the big picture. You go back to 1982 under Charlotte T. I agree. Who was the department of secretary under Ronald Reagan, Department of Education. She wrote a good expose many, many years later called the Deliberate Dumbing down of America. She kind of patted that after that B.F. skinnerian behavioral modification. And it ties all into the founder before the Department of Education, which was General Education Board, where they say, you know what? We don't need more painter. We don't need more artists or we don't need more poets. We just want good cogs in a will that are easily taught that we can mold under our own hand. That mantra still holds true today. So you got to look at that. You got to look at where we come from. We come from a nation that was in industrious and coupled with innovation to now. Everybody tends to do things, like you say, with your smartphone. You know why? Because pictures keep you from looking at things contextually. All right? So when you think about this educational system, you got to go back to what changed in this educational system and why we're where we are.

[Steve]

Because you can't just simply say, I just did.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Yeah, but you can't just simply say that everybody wants to be dumb or everybody in the South.

[Steve]

I didn't say everybody wants to be dumb.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Okay, well, tell you this too. Here's another problem. Why scores are so much more in this country, especially when you talk about black.

[Steve]

Because money doesn't fix a problem. We've thrown money at the problem and it doesn't do.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

Solve the problem at the core root of it and start reforming the real academia. All right? That's where you saw the. So you know what you tell people? We're gonna operate in a system of meritocracy. God damn it. You will eat what you kill. If you're giving you $50,000 to go to school and you decide that you don't want to or you fail to adhere to what's being presented before you, then shame on you.

[Steve]

I agree. You do away with dei. You do away with the sexual dei.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But make it fair across the board. But that's what I'm saying.

[Steve]

I agree.

[Unidentified White Man]

If you're going to do away with dei, you got to make sure that the merits are properly being counted. Because the reason why DEI was invented, Reason why affirmative action was invented is because you have two qualified candidates, same qualifications.

[Steve]

But.

[Unidentified White Man]

But one would get in strictly because his name was Johnny and the other one's name was Jamal. Well, we gonna take Johnny. Cause naturally Johnny's gonna be better at it. But they got the same qualifications. That's why affirmative action was instituted in the first place.

[Steve]

Dei, give me a shrinking white feminist wanted to claim credit.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's a snapshot you can present it in.

[Steve]

But I agree with you.

[Unidentified White Man]

That's a snapshot you can present it in.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

But I'm just saying, like the.

[Steve]

No, what I'm saying is I'm being flippant. But the truth is people were being. Black people were being admitted in record numbers if they had the same qualifications before DEI and affirmative action, white shrieking feminists wanted to take credit for something that was already happening because people had become less racist. So they can say, tag my white name on there. Dei. See what I did for black people, it's white guilt. And what I'm trying to tell you is young people who have nothing to do with any of this, their guilt is running out. And. And you can't escape the violent murder rate. You can't escape them losing opportunities and being blamed for being racist when they're not. You want those kids to pay reparations. You're creating a generation of racists. That's what's going to happen.

[Unidentified Black Man 2]

And then you go, have.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

We as a black community, we're not creating a generation of racists. You know, know who's creating that generation of racist. Those older white people are feeding that into their kids. See, all white people are not racist. I don't believe that.

[Steve]

No, but the one.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

But the ones that come from families that have that inherent gene or trait in them, they're passing that on. How. See, I look at this. The gentleman. The gentleman. The gentleman that got killed. Charlie, he was killed by a white man, a young white man.

[Steve]

Right?

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

From the generation that. That you're talking about that's getting fed up.

[Steve]

Well, he was also banging a.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

His dad. His dad had one ideology, he followed another ideology that's out the same household. He didn't come from nowhere black. He wasn't hanging around with no bunch of black.

[Steve]

I know, I agree.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

I'm not saying that mindset. His dad had put whatever was into him, he either, his dad either put that into him or his rebellion from his father caused him to think like that. That we're not creating that black people.

[Steve]

That is nothing.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

You ever seen over in Africa, you see an elephant with a bird riding on his back. That elephant ain't worried about that bird. Cuz that bird not stopping him from doing the thing he want to do. Where the bird.

[Steve]

No, no. The bird just burned down $4 billion worth of cities and 60,000 assaults.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Steve]

And young white, the bird is half as big as the elephant. You act like it's only blacks that was burning the day.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

What about black Wall Street?

[Steve]

No, what I said earlier and you needless one is when you have young white person going okay, why is this happening? And people go, black lives matter. And they go, hold on a second, I have an opinion on black lives matter. They go, sit down, shut up. Okay, now silence is violence. And that kid goes, well, what do I do? By the way? You're on the hook for reparations. Even though his father, his grandfather, his great great grandfather didn't own a slave and he's still 12 times more likely to be killed by a black person. The other way around, you're gonna. What I'm saying is society is going to create a generation of racists. What do you say to that young white kid? What do you say to him? Stop watching, stop. Stay off of TikTok, stop reading stats.

[Unidentified White Man]

Stop paying attention to what these, what these talking heads are saying because they're leading you down the wrong path. They leading you down a path of paranoia and conspiracy theories.

[Steve]

What if their interactions with black people in general are quite negative? Well, we're in it now. And we're going to continue next Thursday, October 16, on the next installment of Black and white on the gray issues. Do you realize that you could take all the white people in this country and if you're going to add up everyone where you could actually trace the lineage to slave owners or had any involvement, you would end up with maybe 2 or 3%. You shouldn't get anything. I'm Charlie Kirk shouldn't be shot. So my question is, but how is this, what is it? How is this relevant? So here's something that's important, right? Cuz Charlie Kirk was assassinated, let's be clear about this. And we're both agreeing because people believed a lot.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Somebody got to get them sweet potatoes out the ground. Somebody got to do that. White people not going to do that.

[Steve]

Of course you will.

[Unidentified Black Man 1]

Once again. When the work got hard, that's when they went. Got slaves?

[Steve]

Yeah. White people don't know hard work. Can I ask you something? Real talk. While we're having real talk. Why do black. Why do young black men fight in packs?