Episode 10: Three Strikes

Summary

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Love and Radio: Blood Memory

Episode 10: Three Strikes
Release Date: April 6, 2026
Host: Nick van der Kolk | Daylight Media

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Overview

The final episode of the "Blood Memory" series tracks the legal and emotional fallout from the largest California unemployment fraud case ever prosecuted. It centers on Michael Thompson—a former Aryan Brotherhood figure released on clemency, later indicted for EDD fraud—his wife Ariel, co-defendant Eric Hutchinson, and the community around them. With immersive storytelling and raw, unvarnished interviews, the episode follows Thompson through house arrest, trial, sentencing, and reflection, ultimately exploring justice, redemption, love, and the lingering shadows of incarceration.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

I. Michael Thompson's Post-Parole Life & Legal Ordeal

Struggling After Release (01:21–02:59)

• Michael describes being released with nothing, relying on friends for shelter and a trailer to live in.
• He builds a small podcast studio in his trailer, learning computer skills while under house arrest.

“Had it not been for those friendships, those good people, I’d still be sitting in that garage.” – Michael Thompson (02:45)

House Arrest and Legal Pressure (03:54–06:28)

• Conditions: Must remain in county, electronic monitoring, restricted internet.
• Feels targeted due to his past; the justice system is eager to use him as an example.
• Expresses deep guilt over the consequences for his wife, Ariel.

"Because of my history, I've become this poster boy. And that disturbs me more than anything." – Michael Thompson (05:23)

Upcoming Legal Hurdles (06:28–07:20)

• Describes thousands of discovery files to review and fights for internet access to allow him to work and advocate for himself.
• Thompson contends the system fears his public voice via podcasts and social media.

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II. Ariel's Perspective: On Love, Trauma, and Justice

A Marriage Under Strain (07:23–10:33)

• Ariel recalls the immense marital toll, her own health issues, and the emotional rollercoaster of Michael’s second criminal case.
• She voices anger and resignation, emphasizing her inability to endure another disaster.

“He’s the type of person, you burn his house down, he’ll build it up again... I can’t do it. My life from now on has to be pretty peaceful.” – Ariel (07:43)

• Speaks on separation, frustration with the severity of charges, and cycles of anger and empathy.

“It’s just like PTSD... something will trigger it and I get really mad... but it doesn’t last very long because he’s so nice.” – Ariel (08:28)

On Justice and Fate (10:29–11:28)

• Ariel reiterates her lack of faith in the criminal justice system, despite believing in Michael's innocence.

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III. The Legal Battle and Sentencing

Dismissed & Remaining Charges (12:39–14:29)

• Eighteen charges dismissed, twelve remain (majority EDD fraud, plus perjury).
• Michael explains his wife’s pragmatic, non-optimistic stance, rooted in years of work with the justice system.

"The deck essentially is stacked against me. There are a multitude of reasons for that, not the least of which is my history." – Michael Thompson (13:24)

Conviction Announcement (14:29)

• News break: Michael found guilty of perjury and fraud; Eric Hutchinson previously pleaded guilty and received 8 years.

Facing Possible Outcomes (15:18–16:53)

• Wide range: Could be 9 years if court doesn’t strike a 50-year-old strike (homicide), about a year if stricken, or probation.
• Chief concern: Ariel’s wellbeing if he’s incarcerated.

Preparing for Prison (17:06–18:33)

• Mundane but crucial preparations: bills, accounts, car payments, and bracing for the possibility prison may mean dying behind bars.
• Mentally prepares for personal dangers in prison.

"It essentially comes down to a death sentence." – Michael Thompson (18:04)

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IV. Courtroom Drama: The Sentencing Hearing

Courtroom Vignette (18:33–21:28)

• Detailed, cinematic scene: friends and family gather, emotional tension as Michael readies for sentencing.
• Michael appears calm despite circumstances.

"He leans forward a little bit and he just whispers and looks at me. He's like, 'I'm calm. I'm calm.'" – Brian, courtroom observer (21:16)

Legal Arguments and Three Strikes Law (21:29–27:31)

• Michael testifies about his past cooperation with law enforcement, hoping for leniency.
• Prosecution counters that Michael hasn't accepted responsibility and has reoffended soon after release.
• Defense pleads to "strike the strike" due to the remote nature of the old homicide conviction and Michael’s age.

“This single strike is from 50 years ago...I would have been in second grade...Mr. Thompson was 22.” – Justin Peterson, defense lawyer (24:43)

Michael’s Statement (27:39–28:39)

“I take full responsibility for how we can get to these crimes...I accept full responsibility...There’s no effort on my part to shirk that responsibility...Thank you.” – Michael Thompson (27:41–28:39)

Judgment (29:00–30:22)

• Judge acknowledges gravity of past conviction but agrees Thompson falls outside the "spirit" of Three Strikes law.
• Sentence: 5 years, 4 months (not the 9+ years, not probation, but less than anticipated).
• Michael is led away, but tells the reporter: "The judgment is fair." (30:43)

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V. Reactions and Reflections

Eric Hutchinson's Disbelief (32:00–36:29)

• Eric (co-defendant) is surprised Michael received less time than he did: “And the convicted murderer got five… Shame on that judge who gave him that after trial.” (32:27–32:33)
• Criticizes Michael’s courtroom statement as practiced, not remorseful.

“He has mastered the art of not going anywhere, doing anything... That judge should be fired just for saying that.” – Eric Hutchinson (35:42)

• Eric remains firm in his belief Michael’s character hasn’t fundamentally changed.

Society, Justice & Recidivism (36:29–39:00)

• Discussion turns toward larger societal failures and the persistent cycle of recidivism post-release.
• Eric, now a criminal defense attorney, recognizes system complexities but holds no sympathy for Michael.

“There is a much more of a human element that I think I've been exposed to now... I don't think everything's as black and white as some people in law enforcement believe.” – Eric Hutchinson (37:49)

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VI. Ariel’s Closing Thoughts: Endurance, Cynicism, and Love

On Suffering and Love (39:37–44:34)

• Ariel, weary of “the vice grip” of the criminal justice system and the suffering Michael’s circumstances have caused.
• Despite everything, she acknowledges his unique kindness and hints at a sense of mystery: “Evil is so understandable, but goodness is such a mystery.” (41:42)

"I have to say, in the end, probably he is worth it, because I'll never meet another human being like that... All I can do is admire it... Even if I can never be that way... it means something." – Ariel (41:24–41:40)

Final Updates (44:34–45:37)

• Ariel declines a final interview; Michael, in prison, hopes for imminent release and speaks of returning to podcasting.
• Eric—now in transitional housing—claims to be focusing on faith, with no plans for a podcast.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On guilt and love:
  "It’s bad enough that her life may be in jeopardy because of her marriage to me. And she accepted that. She knew, obviously, what she was getting into..." — Michael Thompson (05:37)
• On the human side of recidivism:
  "It essentially comes down to a death sentence... I have to contend with the fact that there’s an open contract on me. The last thing on earth I ever want to be again is violent. But if I’m to survive, that may be required." — Michael Thompson (18:04–18:32)
• On criminal justice cynicism:
  "But if anybody has trust in our criminal justice system all they have to do is have a little bit of experience of that, and they will think about it twice." — Ariel (39:45)
• On the mystery of goodness:
  "Evil is so understandable, but goodness is such a mystery." — Ariel (41:42)
• Michael, after sentencing:
  "The judgment is fair." — Michael Thompson (30:43)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Michael’s post-release struggles: 01:21–03:01
• Discussion of house arrest & legal battle: 03:54–07:20
• Ariel’s perspective/marital toll: 07:23–10:33
• Court case updates & sentencing options: 12:39–16:53
• Courtroom scene & sentencing drama: 18:33–30:43
• Reactions from Eric Hutchinson & legal analysis: 32:00–36:29
• Ariel’s closing reflections & philosophical musings: 39:37–44:34
• Final updates from Michael, Eric, host: 44:34–45:37

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Conclusion

This episode closes "Blood Memory" with a richly textured meditation on guilt, rehabilitation, and the criminal justice system's capacity for mercy or vengeance. Through vulnerable storytelling from Michael and Ariel, and sharp commentary from Eric Hutchinson, the episode provides no easy answers—but gives voice, with compassion and skepticism, to those caught in cycles both personal and systemic. The emotional core remains Ariel’s endurance and Michael’s search for redemption, even as society's judgment looms large.

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Transcript

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[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Previously on Blood Memory.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

Mike wanted to have something that was a success, but Mike didn't care how he got there.

[Ariel]

You put a lot of trust in this man that we barely knew. Lake county authorities say he and a

[Eric Hutchinson]

colleague he met in prison orchestrated the largest California unemployment fraud case.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

And I do remember asking Mike, you know, are we gonna get in trouble for this?

[Michael Thompson]

You're trying to tell me that you got played out of the pocket? Absolutely.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

My mom told me, eric, you're kind of a borderline con person most of your life, too, but you got conned by a con man.

[Love and Radio Host]

From Love and Radio.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

You're listening to Blood Memory. I'm Nick Van Der Kolk. This is episode 10, three strikes.

[Michael Thompson]

Here's the sequence of events. They release me. I call Ken. I said, I'm getting out. You got anybody picking you up?

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

No.

[Michael Thompson]

So he drives over from Clear Lake late at night, picks me up, brings me over here. I have no place to stay. I have no money. I have nothing. He says, you know, what do you want to do? I said, at this point, I want you to go home and get some sleep, but I'm just gonna walk. He says, well, where are you gonna stay? And I said, well, I really don't have any place to stay. Well, he said, garage. There's some drop cloths in there. Just throw them on the floor and get yourself some sleep. I walked most of the night. I walked down the lake and I spent the night at the lake. About 4 o', clock, 5 o' clock the next morning, I came over here and went in the garage and got some sleep. He said, well, you just stay there. So I did, you know, had no car, had no place to live. So now Vic, he owns Vic's RV over in Kelseyville. I said, vic, I said, have you got anything on the lot that will give me shelter? And he says, I'll sell you that trailer. He says, when you start making some money, you can start making payments. I talked to Ken. I said, can I put trailer in the driveway? Said, Yep. You can. Had it not been for those friendships, those good people, I'd still be sitting in that garage.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Chapter one.

[Love and Radio Host]

Michael, this is a small trailer.

[Michael Thompson]

Yeah, it's 20 foot trailer.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Say about a third of it is taken up by this sort of studio space. There's four monitors, mixers, a video camera, microphones. What was the purpose of building all this sort of stuff?

[Michael Thompson]

Primarily to podcast, but also to post.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

You seem fairly comfortable with computers, and I know other folks who are your age who are not comfortable with computers and they were not incarcerated for decades

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

at a time, you know.

[Michael Thompson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

These are all skills you've learned in the last couple of years.

[Michael Thompson]

Last couple of months? Yeah, yeah, last couple of years.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

We talked extensively, sort of about what's

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

been going on with Eric.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Obviously, if there are updates on that, we should talk about that.

[Michael Thompson]

Yeah, it's. That's actually where I'd like to begin. I'm on house arrest. I can't leave unless I put it on a schedule or call and ask permission. I've got an ankle monitor on that I have to charge twice a day. Has gps, so they always know where I'm at. I find myself having to defend myself against charges that are absolutely ludicrous. You know, they've made me stay in this county, so I can't be with my wife and she can't be here. I have to get a travel pass and I travel down to see her, hopefully once a month. But then in the meantime, I have to remain here. I have to deal with these charges, I have to deal with my attorney. I have to generate work so that I can make a living. But more importantly, I think what bothers me the most is that because of my history, I've become this poster boy. And that disturbs me more than anything. You know, that, ah, look at this guy. See, they never should have released him. And look at the charges we have against him now. And those, believe me, those charges are trumped. They're trumped up. If there were any value in me getting angry, I might get angry. But I'm not angry. I'm hurt. Not just because I know the charges aren't true, but because I have to go through the process of proving they're not true. And more importantly, the impact that it's had upon Arielle. Nothing in her life has ever been so devastating. Nothing. And I know that, and I know it's because of me. It's bad enough that her life may be in jeopardy because of her marriage to me. And she accepted that. She knew, obviously, what she was getting into when I was paroled. We thought it was over. That's it. We're out of the mix. Okay? We could live our life. Then I walk into this mess. And don't get me wrong, you know, I'm responsible for this mess. I allowed Eric to con me, but the fact of the matter is, is that I failed to protect and provide for my wife. That's the bottom line. And as a result, she's suffering now and will continue to suffer until this is over. So I'm going to push back. You know, they've had their say. They went public with what they think happened, and it was so irresponsible that it's pathetic. So I'm going to correct the record and then, you know, let those who read these things and hear both sides, let them decide for themselves, just like the jury will.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

What's the next step in the court case?

[Michael Thompson]

Well, I have a hearing coming up March 2nd. We have two terabytes of discovery to go over. When I talk to my attorney, I talk to him on a flip phone, you know, and we're not going to get into any legal matters over a phone. Is my phone tapped? Of course it is. Right now what we're doing is we're going into the Appellate division of the Superior Court to see if we can get Internet. I can do my counseling. I can go online with the website. I can go on social media, and that's really what they're afraid of. They don't want me going on Facebook and Instagram, and they don't want me going on LinkedIn. They don't want me going on the website, the Internet. They don't want me making podcasts and posting them on YouTube. They don't want that because it exposes them.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Chapter two, Ariel.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

So I don't have a. Like, a big agenda coming in here, but, you know, I just wanted to catch up on you the last few years. I think the last time that I interviewed you was, like, about three years ago.

[Ariel]

I think that's right.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

How have things been with you and

[Ariel]

Michael after this debacle with Eric? I said, you know what? I said, you can't do this again. You can't make another mistake. He's the type of person, you burn his house down, he'll build it up again, torpedo his ship, he'll make another one. I can't do it. I'm done. My life from now on has to be pretty peaceful. I can't take any more stress. You know, I've got all these Health problems. I can't take it anymore. So even if you can have your life blown apart and just build it all up again, I can't do it. So if you want to protect me, you want to be with me, you have to keep that in mind.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Was it tough on your marriage?

[Ariel]

Oh, very tough. And we're not living together now. He's mandated to stay in Lakeport, Although I don't see why, really. It's. I mean, what do you think, he's going to flee? He's 71 years old. He's got a wife. What's he going to do? And besides, this is not like a murder charge. This is freaking EDD fraud. You know, it's not a big deal. I mean, it's bad if he did it as a human being, but it's not some big murder charge he's fleeing from. So it's just, like, stupid. Every once in a while, I get angry all over again at him. You know, it's like a PTSD thing. Something will trigger it, and I get really mad. It's not because of anything he's done. I just start thinking over it. Some little thing will trigger it, and I start thinking over it. And then, you know, I just get so pissed. But it doesn't last very long because he's so nice. It's just really hard to stay mad at him. He never gets mad in return. He never says a cruel thing. He's always very considerate, affectionate, polite. I mean, he's even polite. You know, most people who get married, I see, they're rude to each other, you know? And he's never rude to me. He's got the best manners.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

How does it feel? Like leaving Michael there on his own.

[Ariel]

He did it to himself. I know it sounds really harsh, but what can you say? He did it to himself. It's on you. If you want a life with me, you gotta stay out of prison. Got to get a not guilty verdict. You got to pick up your life again. You got to get back your reputation. You got to do all these things that you promised me you were going to do. And you have to repair all this damage. And we don't have a lot of time to do it. Good luck. I'll help, but it's not my fault.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Looking forward, how do you see things unfolding?

[Ariel]

It's just like with the parole hearing. It could go either way. I mean, he's innocent. I know he's innocent because I was there. I knew exactly what happened. So absolutely, he's innocent. But he was innocent when he got convicted of his commitment offense. Do I have faith in the criminal justice system? No. On our side, he's innocent. He's got a good attorney. Eric has a whole history of being a con artist. Michael doesn't have that. There's no nexus between his reputation as a gang leader and EDD fraud. None. That's all in our favor. But like I said, anything can happen.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Love and Radio will return after these messages.

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[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Chapter 3 Michael?

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Michael, can you hear me okay?

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

Yes, I can now. Yes.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Okay, good. So what's the latest?

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

Well, just had 18 charges dismissed at the last hearing, and it leaves me with a dozen. In addition to 11 ED fraud charges against me, there are a couple of perjury charges. That's the ones where they said that I filled out a loan application and said that I was not on parole, but I'm going to be able to show that I'm not the one that filled out those loan application.

[Love and Radio Host]

You know, after my last conversation with

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Ariel during my last visit to California, she just seemed so despondent and she doesn't seem as optimistic about it as you.

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

Well, you know, first and foremost, her attitude is appropriate. You know, she has worked in the system for a couple of decades herself and with clients who have suffered the bane of, for lack of a better word, corruption within the judicial system. So it's not so much pessimism as it is she's a pragmatist and she understands that, you know, the deck essentially is stacked against me. There are a multitude of reasons for that, not the least of which is my history. So it's, you know, it's difficult to be optimistic about it. You know, it's like Nick, when I used to go into court and my attitude is that I'm not testifying for the prosecution, I'm not testifying for the defense. I'm simply a witness that's testifying. And the idea is to tell the jury what I know and not attempt to persuade them or embellish or enhance or otherwise. You know, that's the thing about the facts. The facts don't change. There's a dictum in the law that says reasonable minds differ. And I don't mind acknowledging that reasonable minds differ. But what doesn't differ are the facts.

[News Reporter]

Michael Thompson was found guilty Tuesday of perjury and fraud for lying on government loan applications and illegally collecting unemployment benefits. The Sacramento Bee described Thompson during the trial as dapper in a beige corduroy blazer and carrying a carved walking stick. He blamed the false statements and unemployment theft on his co defendant, Eric Abner Hutchinson, who pleaded guilty in September and is currently serving an eight year sentence. Thompson is due back in court for his own sentencing hearing.

[Michael Thompson]

It was disappointing. First and foremost, I don't believe that the prosecution met their burden of proof,

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

chapter four, two days before sentencing.

[Michael Thompson]

And the burden of proof, of course, is on them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I committed these crimes.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Can you talk me through the different possible sentencing outcomes? It sounds like there's a potential very wide range on Tuesday of what they might come back with.

[Michael Thompson]

There is, yeah. The worst case scenario is that the judge does not strike the strike.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Can you explain what that means?

[Michael Thompson]

I'm asking him to set aside the prior strike, the 50 year old conviction. If he doesn't set that aside, then that means I'm potentially looking at approximately nine years. That will make me 82 when I'm released. If the court does set aside the strike, I would end up doing about a year and then the last alternative would be probation. I believe that there's an excellent case for probation, although my attorney doesn't think that the court is going to allow it. And that's primarily because of my history.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

And how.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

How do you feel?

[Michael Thompson]

Well, it's a great question. My number one concern is my wife and her well being. She's 76 years old and not in good health. She's going to have to work in order to provide for herself. There'll be no one there to care for. So that's my primary concern. Of course, I'm not looking forward to being back in a cage. I've said it over and over again, is that I think the worst thing that you can do to a human being is put them in a cage.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

You said you were sort of trying to get stuff in order with the possibility that you could be taken into custody on Tuesday. Is there anything that, like, someone wouldn't even think of that's something that you need to do that you won't be able to?

[Michael Thompson]

Well, yeah. First and foremost, you look to your health and your dental. And then as it relates to your relationship, you look to those things that, like accounts. I make sure that they're on auto pay so that, you know, Ariel doesn't have to deal with that. I have a car that I have to make payments on. What most people might think are minor, but in the long run, they can become significant by way of the financial burden that they place. And then, of course, you have to be able. I have had to be able to contend with the ramifications of my reincarceration on the relationship itself and the impact that has upon her mentally, spiritually, physically and otherwise. There's a responsibility there.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

I almost don't want to ask you this question, but do you ever think about, like, the possibility that you may go to prison for the rest of your life at this stage? Do you think that's a possibility?

[Michael Thompson]

Yeah, it is. It essentially comes down to a death sentence. I mean, I have to contend with the fact that there's an open contract on me. The last thing on earth I ever want to be again is violent. But if I'm to survive, that may be required.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Hey, Brian.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Hey, Nick. Chapter five sentencing okay, it is 12:07pm on Tuesday, April 29, 2025. I am driving to the Lake County Courthouse for the sentencing Michael Thompson. We'll see if he's remanded into custody or if he's allowed to continue to live to be a free man. I just went outside. I was just waiting to see when I could see Michael. There's a side of the courthouse where there's just like this double stair set, this big Giant double stair set. It's like climbing up the side of a hill. And I look up and I see this man in a brown strip, a hat, a dark denim blue shirt, blue jeans, boots. And he just calls down to me. Are you Brian?

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Yep.

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

Michael.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

How you doing?

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Mind if I come up there? Hi, real quick. Nice to meet you. How you doing?

[Ariel]

Not great.

[Michael Thompson]

Verity, Midland.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Oh, I'm Brian, by the way.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Voice]

Hi.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

And Michael's best friend Ken is there too.

[Michael Thompson]

Ken.

[Ken (Michael's friend)]

I'm Ken.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Ken, yeah. Nice to meet you formally.

[Michael Thompson]

Yeah.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

When we sit in today, the judge, it would be okay to record the court. So then I hopefully get your reaction afterwards.

[Michael Thompson]

Yeah. Okay. Well, unless they take me away quickly.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

He is whisked away by security because that's the entrance to the elevator. And he has a hard time walking, so all those stairs would be hard on him. So they take him into the courthouse.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Yeah.

[Michael Thompson]

I can only take two at a time. Two at a time. Take two rescue. I can throw you down the stairs.

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

Or you can wait.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

I can wait.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

I can wait.

[Michael Thompson]

Be right back.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Ladies first.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

I'll see you guys up there. Take care.

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

I'll see you.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Yep. Ken and I, we'll go in together. And when you go into the front of the building, just like any high security building in America, you start just dumping out your pockets. One thing I noticed with Ken is he had two sets of keys. And he explained, he's like, I'm holding on to Michael's stuff for him just in case. We get up there and Michael's there with his wife. They're holding their hands. They're just very close to one another. They don't know what time they have left. And then we all file into the courtroom, and Michael's just over my left shoulder, sitting next to his wife. And everything's quiet. So I don't want to make too much noise, but I was just like, I have to ask him, how you doing right now? And he leans forward a little bit and he just whispers and looks at me. He's like, I'm calm. I'm calm. And then all of a sudden, the Bailiff calls State vs. Michael Thompson. He lets go of Ariel's hand and sits down next to his lawyer, Justin Peterson.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Justin Peterson for Mr. Thompson.

[Michael Thompson]

He's present, coming forward.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

This case is on for pronouncing the judgment and sentencing. Is it ready to proceed?

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

It is, Justin.

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

Yes.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

One of the rare things that happened today was that Michael took the stand to testify, which doesn't happen very often in a sentencing.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

We would call Mike Thompson to stand.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

Okay, Mr. Thompson, if you could approach

[Michael Thompson]

the state, you solve the sword.

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The testimony you're about to present in

[Michael Thompson]

a matter now pending before this court be the truth, the whole truth, but

[Pharmaceutical Ad Voice]

the truth, nor penalty of pertree.

[Michael Thompson]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

So Michael is taking the stand because his attorney wants him to talk about his cooperation with law enforcement.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

How many times would you say you have testified in court against gang members?

[Michael Thompson]

At least a half a dozen.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Can you give us the names of those events?

[Michael Thompson]

If you can't, really, I can. John Stenson. That was a murder case. Curtis Price. He was airing Brotherhood. That was a death penalty case.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

The point of all this is that they hope it convinces the judge to be more lenient in his sentence. Then it was the prosecution's turn to argue their case. The prosecutor in this case, his name is sterling Eugene Thayer, Jr. That's his real name. That's his real name. Check the bar. He looks like he's got better things to do. He points out that in Michael's testimony he just gave that he doesn't really address the actual case, the actual fraud he was convicted of. And he still kind of paints himself in the most favorable light possible,

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

an active participant. He places the blame on Mr. Hutchins and portrays himself as another victim.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

So the prosecution is arguing that Michael never really cops to anything. He hasn't taken responsibility for what he did in this case, and all he talks about was his prior convictions. So you. So at this point, the prosecution makes a case not whether or not Michael should go back to prison, but how long he should go back to prison for.

[Ken (Michael's friend)]

There's no reason to show him, essentially, clemency from the court. He received clemency from the governor, and he thumbed his nose at it. He engaged in a pattern of behavior that resulted in the state losing almost $400,000, and more importantly, resulted in his victims losing out on the opportunity to maybe get some funding to which they may have been entitled to. Instead, he took people who were addicted to drugs, took their personal information, and used it to pay off his own expenses.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

So Thayer, the prosecutor, sits down, and Michael's lawyer stands back up.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

Mr. Peterson.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Thank you, Judge. When I agreed to assist Mr. Thompson with his sentencing, I didn't think there was any chance I'd be standing here asking you to consider probation. But I am. And the reason I didn't.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Peterson makes the argument he's asking the judge to, quote, unquote, strike the strike. In California, we have the three strikes law. So on your third felony conviction, in your life, you're looking at a much harsher sentence, potentially life. So here in this case, Peterson is asking the judge, hey, that first strike is the 1975 homicide case, but we should kind of, like, look the other way because it happened so long ago.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

This single strike is from 50 years ago. And as I try and think about just how long ago that is, I would have been in second grade eight years old. Mr. Thompson was 22. And I don't think today he. He's any more the man that he was at 22 than I'm the man I was when I was 8 years old. I think the thing that really upsets Mr. Thompson part is the rehabilitation and the really, the public service that he has demonstrated over 44 years.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

So after that, Peterson turns back to the case at hand. And, you know, kind of as most attorneys do, when you have a co conspirator in the case, you just point the finger at the guy who isn't in the room and just basically says, hey, this is all Eric's fault.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Mr. Hutchins pretended to take my client under his wing, knowing my client was not wise in the ways of the free world and said he was going to teach in the construction business. And instead, Mr. Hutchins fleeced my client's wife, took all her life savings, and he stole a year of my client so labor when he was trying to make up for that, lost money from his wife. At that point, my client is in a very desperate situation and making bad mistakes. Considering his age and his life expectancy, I'd ask the court to consider how long does the state really have an interest in keeping Mr. Thompson as a public charge? So for all those reasons, I would ask the court to strike and. Right. My client and his wife are absolutely victims in this case. Now, that doesn't mean they're the only victims, and it doesn't mean that Mr. Thompson is also not a perpetrator, because he absolutely is. But you can be both perpetrator and which. Which he is.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

And what did the prosecution make of that argument?

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Oh, they weren't having it.

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

Mr. Thompson still hasn't said that he did anything. His counsel says, well, he's a victim and a perpetrator. He doesn't say he's a perpetrator. He only has said he's a victim. A statement in mitigation says he's only a victim. He is not a victim. He is someone who knowingly worked with someone else and likely directed the other people. I don't see how he. He has been meaningfully rehabilitated. If, when he's given a chance to do well for himself and to do well by society, he immediately finds another group of very vulnerable people to victimize again. For that reason, he should be getting the 14 years, eight months as recommended in the probation report.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Did Michael ever address his role in the case?

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Yeah, he did, Judge, that Mr. Thompson asked that he be permitted to make a stadium to the court.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

So you're still under oath. Go ahead.

[Michael Thompson]

Yes, your honor. Thank you. I think first and foremost, I'd like to thank the court for providing me the opportunity to defend myself. I find myself at loggerheads with what Mr. Thayer said a moment ago. And so far as me professing not to be a perpetrator, I take full responsibility for how we can get to these crimes. And I'm here today to hear what the court has to say. Insofar as what I'm going to have to do to make amends for those crimes, there's no effort on my part to shirk that responsibility again. I accept full responsibility for these crimes. I'm not going to get into the blame game. I had an opportunity, I mean, putting on a defense to deal with that. This isn't the time for that. I'm like a part, fender or anything else. I'm going to accept responsibility for what happened here fully. And that's essentially it. I'm not going to talk about anything other than that. Accepting full responsibility for these crimes. Thank you.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

So what happened next?

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

Then the judge handed down the sentence.

[Michael Thompson (courtroom)]

No, you, Honor.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

It is the judgment of the court that the defendant is guilty as charged in counts 1, 2, 4.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

As the judge starts talking, I notice Ariel was inching forward, forward towards the edge of her chair. She seemed anxious to know what was going to happen next.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

First, in considering the nature and circumstances of the prior strike, the crime involved violence and the use of a weapon resulting in the death of two human beings. It is one of the most serious, if not the most serious, crimes a person can commit. The murder occurred more than 50 years ago. It is remote in time. Being released into society from prison is hard enough. But soon after being released and arriving in Lake County, Covid fell upon us and shelter in place orders took effect. These orders made life difficult for a lot of people. Mr. Thompson found himself in a world that he could not have prepared for. When considering all the evidence before the court, in light of the nature and circumstances of the defendant's present felonies and the prior strike conviction in the particulars of his Background, character and prospects. The court finds the defendant to be outside the spirit of the three strikes law.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

And for that, so, in other words, did strike the strike, he didn't consider

[Narrator / Story Voice]

Michael's previous convictions as a subordinate attorney. Therefore, the aggregate state prison term is five years, four months.

[Justin Peterson (Michael's lawyer)]

Okay.

[Narrator / Story Voice]

The defendant is remanded into the custody of Relayka and the sheriff to be delivered to the parking of.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

At this point, the bailiff puts Michael in handcuffs. He's let out of court. They're walking down the hallway. They stop at the elevators, and as the bailiff and Michael are about to go into the elevator, Michael turns to me and he says something to the effect of Brian, record this. This judgment is fair.

[Michael Thompson]

The judgment is fair.

[Sponsor / Advertisement Voice]

Okay.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Love and Radio will return after these messages.

[Sponsor / Advertisement Voice]

Foreign.

[Fandango Sponsor]

This episode is brought to you by Fandango. People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is, when a great movie hits the screen, you show up, you stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be no cinema magic, no shared moments. So head to fandango.com to get tickets, stream or rent or buy top movies and series. Fandango loves fans.

[Eric Hutchinson]

I'm dying to know what happened.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Chapter six. Heather. So he got five years, four months. I think the probation department was recommending

[Eric Hutchinson]

about 15 years, which is probably realistically more what it's worth.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

But he got significantly less than Eric did. Even though Eric pled guilty and Mike went to trial.

[Eric Hutchinson]

Are you serious?

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Yeah. Yeah, Eric. I think he got, like, eight years.

[Eric Hutchinson]

And the convicted murderer got five.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Yeah, got five and some change.

[Ariel]

Wow.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Yeah.

[Eric Hutchinson]

Shame on that judge who gave him that after trial. Like your offers are supposed to go up after trial, not down.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

I do believe he did cite Michael getting a PhD in his statement as

[Eric Hutchinson]

well, for which he didn't. You know, that was bullshit. Yeah, People will believe any bullshit that people tell them. That's what upsets me the most. You know, they'll just take it at face value and not think, gee, he's a con man. Perhaps he might be lying about this. I guess leopards don't change their spots now, do they?

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

I'd love to read an excerpt of the statement that Michael made at the sentencing hearing and get you to respond to it. He says, I take full responsibility for having been convicted of these crimes, and I'm here to hear what the court has to say. Insofar as what I'm going to have to do to make amends for those crimes, there's no effort on my part to shirk that responsibility again, I accept full responsibility for these crimes. I'm not going to get into the blame game. I had an opportunity in putting on a defense to deal with that. This isn't the time for that. I'm not going to point fingers or anything else. I'm going to accept responsibility for what happened here fully.

[Eric Hutchinson]

It was interesting the first way he characterized it. I take full responsibility for being convicted of these crimes, which means I realize I've been convicted of them. It doesn't mean I did it. Right. He did say it later, though, in your sentence. Then he said, I'll take full responsibility for these crimes. But he's learned that language over so many parole hearings. Right. Because that's the biggest thing they're looking for. They want the inmates to accept responsibility. And so he's no dummy to the system to prey on, like, vulnerable people like that is despicable. Not once did he say to the judge, wow, you know, I really am sorry for what I did to these people, knowing that they were really out on the streets, hard up for money, and in a very vulnerable time in their life. And I took advantage of them. And for that, I'm genuinely remorseful and I apologize. I'm accepting full responsibility for having been convicted of these. I won't play the blame game because I already tried that with the jury in trial is basically it. So that wasn't going to go very far once the jury's already found him guilty of telling the judge, like, it was Eric or whatever. But I don't think that his statement to the judge, to me, is persuasive or shows any type of genuine remorse or an apology to the victims. We're actually taking responsibility for what he did, other than, like, I'll just take my licks. Give me the time you're gonna give me. What did the judge say?

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Let me get the transcript up.

[Eric Hutchinson]

Yeah, I'm just curious to see what he said.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Mr. Thompson undoubtedly made the wrong decisions and committed crimes by doing so. But given Mr. Thompson's experiences in life, being locked up most of his life, being on the Aryan Brotherhood hit list for 36 years, and suffering from PTSD from those experiences. Shelter in place. Order soon after his release with something that he was ill equipped to handle. While these circumstances do not justify or excuse his criminal conduct, they are something the court must consider in determining whether to strike the strike.

[Eric Hutchinson]

Okay, I just gotta say one thing. I want to take issue with that. The judge said he's ill equipped to handle shelter in place. He's been sheltered in place for almost 50 years. You gotta be shitting me. He has mastered the art of not going anywhere, doing anything or communicating. That's the ridiculous. You know how stupid that sounds? That judge should be fired just for saying that. Come on.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Do you want me to keep reading?

[Eric Hutchinson]

Yes. Let me hear this other nonsense.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

Okay. Additionally, while he did at least assist in presenting the fraudulent claims, it's likely that a significant portion of the money was taken by Mr. Hutchins. Eric. And never received by Mr. Thompson. The defendant is 73 years old. The court is aware that if the strike is not stricken, the sentence for the defendant would most likely effectively result in a life sentence.

[Eric Hutchinson]

That's one of the main reasons, is because he's old. I think the age is a factor. I think the age is a factor that if he does get a life sentence, I think that's something that the judge should consider. I mean, listen, I think he belonged in prison till the day he dies anyway. Right? And he got out and what a dumbass. He did something again, so he's right back where he belongs. But I definitely think age is a huge factor that the judge considered. Listen, he could have hung his hat on. He's 72 years old. I would have had a little more respect for the judge if he'd just said that.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

What do we as a society sort of do with the Michael Thompsons of

[Eric Hutchinson]

the world besides lock em up and throw away the key? I'm joking about that. But, you know, the solution is to stop crime before it happens. Like have a society that doesn't want to hurt other people. You know, how do you. How do you accomplish that? I had to go visit a client of mine in jail. And then I just got a new guy who, much like Mr. Thompson, couldn't stay out of trouble for very long once he got out. So it doesn't look good anyway.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

And this is a client of yours?

[Eric Hutchinson]

Yeah, new clan of mine.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

So you have quite a bit of experience on the defense side of things.

[Eric Hutchinson]

Yeah, as well I do now. That's what I've been doing for the past three years.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

How is it to be on that side of things?

[Eric Hutchinson]

Honestly, I love it. I really do. I think that there's definitely more sides to every story than some people think. From the get go, you know, behind every crime, it's not just the victim. The defendant is always motivated by, whether it be anger, fear, frustration, trauma, whatever it is that causes them to do what they did or make stupid decisions. You know, there is a much more of a human element that I think I've been exposed to now. I also do recognize that the cops sometimes get things wrong. When I was a dai, I prided myself on the fact that I thought that I was at least reasonable and willing to listen to what the defense attorney had to say. And now that I'm on the other side, I find that not all the DAs are as willing to keep an open mind and look at the other side of things. I don't think everything's as black and white as some people in law enforcement believe. I think there's a lot of gray areas,

[Interviewer / Journalist]

you know, being on this side of it. Does it make you feel any differently about Michael Thompson's case at all?

[Eric Hutchinson]

Absolutely not. Not at all. Not a drop. Not a drop.

[Narrator / Nick Van Der Kolk]

Chapter 7. Ariel.

[Ariel]

I am really sick to death of the criminal justice system, especially being in the vice grip of it. And there's a whole community out there of my clients who are tired of it, because for generations, they're the ones that get sent to prison. You know, their husbands, their sons, their nephews. They're the ones being sent to prison, and they're tired. So I get it because I just got a little taste of it. And if anybody has trust in our criminal justice system, all they have to do is have a little bit of experience of that, and they will think about it twice. Sometimes I kind of wonder if Michael was worth all this trouble because he has been so troublesome, not in himself, but his circumstances, what he's brought to my life, lots of suffering and sacrifice. But I have to say, in the end, probably he is worth it, because I'll never meet another human being like that, and nobody will meet another human being like that. He's just an exceptional person. I know that if half things happened to me that happened to him, you know, I wouldn't be a nice person at all. I don't know why he's so kind and gentle and honest and trusting based on his experiences in life. I don't get it. But it's got to be something that's so deep in him that obviously nothing has been able to change it. There's nothing hard in him. Why? I don't get it. All I can do is admire it and know that even if I can never be that way, the fact that he's like that, that means something. I don't know exactly what it means, but it means something. You know, it's interesting, isn't it, that evil is so understandable, but goodness is such a mystery.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

How do you mean?

[Ariel]

I guess I've studied evil for so long. You know, I mean, social work and then getting into my job. And it's not my clients necessarily who are evil, but all the circumstances around them. You know, that the evil that we do to each other that leads to these things. And so I get it. Whether it's mental illness or drug addiction or trauma or abuse or whatever, you know, I get it all. I understand it all. But I don't understand goodness. How can you write a book about that? What's there to analyze? It's just a mystery.

[Brian (Courtroom observer/reporter)]

It.

[Sponsor / Advertisement Voice]

How is it looking to you? Like a father. Do you recognize your kind? Let me a witness. I be a witness. All in a bad night's sleep. After you.

[Love and Radio Host]

Ariel declined to do a final interview with me last autumn. I asked Michael how she was doing.

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

How is she doing?

[Michael Thompson]

I don't know.

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

I don't talk to her that much

[Love and Radio Host]

as I record this. Michael is still serving his sentence in California State Prison, but he says he's been cleared for release this spring, and there's a very good chance that by the time you hear my voice, he'll be out.

[Interviewer / Journalist]

What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get out?

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

Yeah, I'm going to set up my studio and start podcasting.

[Love and Radio Host]

Heather Brown retired as a prosecutor in 2022 and now works in criminal defense and advocacy for victims of sexual abuse. She also has her own podcast, Defeating the Darkness.

[Eric Hutchinson]

When you say, what do you do with the Nick Thompson? It's like, let's stop Nick Thompson from doing that before he Michael Thompson. Oh, did I say Nick Thompson?

[Interviewer / Journalist]

So I felt like you were accusing me there.

[Eric Hutchinson]

I know what you're up to.

[Love and Radio Host]

Eric Hutchins was released from prison and placed in a transitional housing program last summer. He says he's begun attending church.

[Michael Thompson (phone interview)]

I don't know. You always hear these stories about sinking in for people, and it just hit him one day, and I guess I'm somewhere in me hoping that maybe that happens.

[Love and Radio Host]

He has not revealed any plans to launch a podcast. That's it for Blood Memory. This is the final episode. You can head on over to loveandradio.orgmember to follow us on Patreon for free. In the coming weeks, I'll be hosting an AMA about this series over there for both paid and free members. Plus lots of additional goodies for you. Again, that's loveandradio.org member music on this episode comes from Siete Catorce, Glitchbird and Tranyas Zaroshi. Natalia Bayless, star of the Sea Glitchbird Esmeralda, Las Olas and Pearly. Check the show notes for the full playlist. Nikki Stein provided the voice of the newscaster. The series producer of Blood Memory has been Meera Kumar. Robin Amer is our managing editor, Additional reporting by Bryan Kranz and Anya Schulz, fact checking by Nicole Pasulka, Allison Herrera is our contributing editor and Visuals by Orla McCarty. I also want to send a huge special thanks to the music labels Tambien, Audio Bulb and Revenge. Seriously, check them out. They curate some of the best sounds in the universe. Special thanks also to Avishay Artsy, Tara Friedman, Davey Gardner, Alexander Jerry, Alison Morgan, Jonathan Mitchell, Nigel Po, Mark Solinger, Rebecca Kanther and Ashley Shi at NYU Shanghai, Stephen Matsch and Megan Shrinker at the law offices of Louvy and Louvy, Jacqueline Sweat and Lisa Califf at the law offices of Donaldson, Califf Perez and Cow House Studios in County Wexford, Ireland. This series is dedicated to my parents, Bessel Van der Kolk and Beta Debor and their respective life partners Leisha Skye and Henry Marshall. Love and Radio is a labor of love and radio and made possible thanks to our members with extra special thanks to Abby Tabby, Casey Royal, Mark 1451 Glad Lily, Hank Aaron, Sam the Glue Huffer My favorite Winter Soup Grief is handy. My name is Joe dan Pinochle, Ally McBeal, Christopher Robin, Billy Spearfishing, Jason Vuvazela, the Golden Child, Audrey Hepburn's Dear and if you'd like to join the fine group of people who make love and radio happen, head on over to loveandradio.org to join us on Patreon. Or if you listen in Apple Podcasts, you can subscribe right in the app. I'm Nicholas Sardine Punch Punch Van der Kolk. Thanks for listening.

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