L+R Presents: Conversations with Ghosts

Summary

Love and Radio Presents: Conversations with Ghosts — “The Cab Driver”

Podcast: Love and Radio x Daylight Media
Presented podcast: Conversations with Ghosts
Date: April 20, 2026
Episode Theme:
In this haunting, evocative crossover, Love and Radio host Nick van der Kolk introduces an episode from the audio fiction podcast Conversations with Ghosts. The episode centers on Mal Fleming, an attendant at Grey Briar Cemetery, as he interviews the spirit of Karen Inge, a former New York City cab driver, in hopes of helping her "pass on." Through Karen’s recollections, the episode explores themes of liminality, the sacredness of listening, invisible labor, memory, and the meaning of a life spent in transit.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meeting the Ghost: Karen Inge’s Introduction

[01:47-02:34]

• Mal Fleming initiates the ritual of passage, asking Karen Inge for her name and cause of death.
• Karen Inge, the ghostly cabbie, sets the tone with grounded, gentle humor and observations about weather, work, and memory.
• Early emphasis on rain as a motif: “I love hearing the sound of the raindrops on the taxi window. There’s music to it. Plus you make more money in the rain. No one wants to walk.” (Karen Inge, [02:15])

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2. Life in Transit: The Cab as Home

[02:52-06:43]

• Karen describes her death and expresses comfort in dying “en route”—her life revolving around journeys.
• She reflects on how the cab became her entire world, time blurring “like how light is different when it’s reflected in a street puddle.”
• Notable Quote:
  “When you’re driving, when you’re on the road, it can feel like nothing will ever end. There’s a different quality to the time.” — Karen Inge [03:49]

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3. The Secular Confessional: Eavesdropping on Humanity

[07:05-09:50]

• Karen relays stories of passengers unburdening themselves—strangers confessing secrets simply because the cab is a “secular confessional”:
  “The ex-priest, now cabbie, he said that the cab was a... secular confessional. You’ve got the barrier. The driver’s anonymous, there’s the radio. But other than that, there’s nothing to do except talk.” — Karen Inge [07:41]

• The intimacy between cabbie and fare mirrors the host/ghost dynamic; Karen, like Mal, is a keeper of others’ stories and secrets.

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4. Stories from the Backseat: Dreams & Infidelities

[08:32-13:50]

• Karen recounts a series of vignettes:
  • Young hopefuls new to New York, holding onto dreams and “trying to wish a future into being.”
  • Tales of infidelity—“A lot of cheating. Women. Men, too, but mostly women...they had a husband and some kids at home. But they needed something new, something different.” ([10:47])
  • A memorable passenger, “like a young Sophia Loren,” seeks not sex, but the thrill of secrecy, “building a secret part of herself.”
• Notable Moment:
  “I think her favorite part of the experience…cheating—it wasn’t the sex. It was being in the taxi with me, telling me her secret. Who she really was, who she wanted to be. There’s something sacred in hearing that.” — Karen Inge [13:13]

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5. Gender, Outsider Status, and Survival

[15:29-17:43]

• Karen, an immigrant and a woman, navigates prejudice and camaraderie:
  • Faces skepticism from family and male colleagues.
  • Adopted the nickname “Streisand” for her “big nose,” which she retorts with wit.
  • Learns to blend in by covering for others, sharing jokes, and quietly asserting herself.
• Notable Anecdote: “It’s because I have a big nose. It’s very funny. I told Jack—the dispatcher—that he looked like a witch...He didn’t give me any good assignments for weeks after that.” ([16:39])

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6. The Cab as Vessel: Bearing City Life

[18:04-20:07]

• Karen reminisces about the variety of New Yorkers she's driven:
  • Club kids, clubbers, coked-up businessmen, elderly couples, all weaving the “teeming mass of a city.”
• The cab transforms into both ferry and confessional—“Sometimes I turned the radio off and it would only be the sounds of the city and I’d feel like I was on a river ferrying people to where they needed to go.” [18:53]
• Reflection on her own life as observer and carrier of others' stories.

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7. Role Reversal: The Listener Becomes the Listened-To

[20:07-21:43]

• Karen notes her discomfort at being the focus, used to being the absorber of others’ narratives, not confessor herself.
• Mal, in a rare moment, shares about his present life: taking care of a cat, befriending ghosts, attending the ballet, and his fascination with hearing from people of history.
• Notable Moment:
  “I try not to engage in false nostalgia, but I do think there’s something to be said for a city where artists could actually afford the rent.” — Mal Fleming [21:58]

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8. The Pull and Purpose of Storytelling

[23:30-29:20]

• Mal wonders aloud if Karen’s refusal to “pass on” is a result of her need to keep listening, and whether he himself is at risk of merely living through the stories of others.
• Karen reflects on her life:
  • “What we want is to listen. Mal, when you look at me, when you think about my life, how I spent it, do you pity me?” [24:14]
  • She wonders if it is enough to be just a listener and not the main character.
  • Mal responds with empathy rather than pity, and the two recognize their kinship.
• Notable Quote:
  “Do you think I’m broken, Mal?” — Karen Inge [25:13]

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9. The Question of Regret and Self-knowledge

[28:36-29:20]

• Mal asks if Karen regrets a life spent listening rather than “living her own life.” She replies,
  “I’m sure. Mostly. I don’t think anyone is sure. When people were in the back of my cab when they told me stories about their lives…I think part of the reason why they talked about who they were was to convince themselves to make it true.” — Karen Inge [28:43-29:16]
• Discussion of how stories help us understand ourselves—if only by reflecting off others.

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10. Closure: The Role of Witness

[29:21-31:00]

• Mal thanks Karen: “For sharing your story. And for listening.”
• Karen's passage is “completed” after telling her story—her hope is simply to keep hearing stories, wherever she may go.
• The episode underscores that being a witness—whether cab driver, spirit guide, or podcast host—is its own sacred vocation.
• Notable Moment:
  “This is the part where you ask for the tip.” — Karen Inge, lightly, as she prepares to move on. [29:29]

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Notable Quotes (w/ Timestamps & Attribution)

• “There’s something calming about [the rain]. As long as you’re not stranded in a storm or something.” — Mal Fleming [02:09]
• “The cab was a secular confessional…you can unburden yourself, say things you’d never say to anyone you actually knew.” — Karen Inge [07:41]
• “I don’t think I can add up the hours, but it’s years. More than a decade, probably.” — Karen Inge [04:59]
• “You can never get out of your own head and look at yourself, Mal. The perspective never changes. You can only look at other people, hear their stories.” — Karen Inge [29:09]
• “You just need to decide whether you really want to walk the path I walked…Maybe you can find all you need amongst the dead, hearing their stories, helping them. Maybe that’s a life. But maybe you should live your own life.” — Karen Inge [27:46-28:29]

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Memorable Moments & Episode Tone

• The episode is awash in nostalgia, melancholy, and gentle humor—rain as both motif and mood-setting device.
• Karen’s reflections serve as both eulogy for her transient life and a mirror held up to Mal, and us, about the value of bearing witness versus being the protagonist in one's own life.
• The closing exchange—Karen joking about “the tip”—brings levity and closure.

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Episode Structure by Timestamp

• [00:31]–[01:47] — Nick’s introduction to the episode and background
• [01:47]–[06:43] — Mal’s opening with Karen; Karen recounts life and death in transit
• [06:43]–[13:50] — Stories from the cab: confidences, dreams, infidelities
• [13:50]–[18:04] — Karen’s reflections on gender, survival, and her outsider status
• [18:04]–[20:07] — Further life in the cab; the joys of being an observer
• [20:07]–[23:30] — Karen and Mal trade roles: the listener and confessor
• [23:30]–[29:20] — The pull of storytelling, kinship between Mal and Karen, the question of regret
• [29:21]–[31:00] — Gratitude, closure, passage completed

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Final Thoughts

“Conversations with Ghosts: The Cab Driver” is a quietly profound meditation on what it means to spend a life in between—a story that celebrates the sacredness of listening, the invisible labor of those who keep cities moving, and the human need to be witnessed. Rich in anecdote and atmosphere, the episode weaves personal and urban history into a compelling portrait of compassion, longing, and contentment in liminality.

It’s a must-listen for fans of sonic storytelling, urban history, and anyone who’s ever wondered about the stories held by strangers just passing through.

Transcript

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[Nick (Podcast Host)]

hey there, it's Nick. While we work on the next season of Love and Radio, I wanted to showcase some podcasts that I've enjoyed and I think you might too. Back in 2011, the year I first heard about a guy named Michael Thompson, I worked with a young intern named Mark Solinger, and Mark ended up being one of the first people to try and help me track down Michael. Well, he's not remotely the dewy dyed intern he was 15 years ago in, and he's since gone on to do some great work in the audio fiction world along with his frequent collaborator Daniel Powell. Their podcast Archive 81 was a huge hit and one you might already be familiar with. It was actually turned into a Netflix show. Their latest series is called Conversations with Ghosts and it follows mausoleum attendant Mal Fleming as he tries to convince the spirits of Grey Briar Cemetery to pass on. This episode is called the Cab Driver. I hope you enjoy and if you do, you can follow Conversations with Ghosts wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks.

[Mal Fleming]

My name is Mal Fleming. I am here to assist in your passage. Can you remember your name and the circumstances of your death?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Karen Inge. Car accident. Feels like we should be getting some rain sometime soon, right? Been dry these past few weeks.

[Mal Fleming]

Oh, I suppose.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Are you one of those people that can't stand the rain?

[Mal Fleming]

No. There's something calming about it. As long as you're not stranded in a storm or something.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I feel the same way. I love hearing the sound of the raindrops on the taxi window. There's music to it. Plus you make more money in the rain. No one wants to walk. Everyone tips better. You want me to turn on the radio?

[Mal Fleming]

Can you do that?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Sure. Not sure why I can still do that. There aren't any stations. Just what you're hearing. I like it though. Like the rain. Calming.

[Mal Fleming]

So would it be helpful to talk about the circumstances of your death?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I knew it was going to happen. You spend so much time in the cab that dying at home Just feels wrong, almost. And it was quick. I was grateful for that. No one else died. Didn't have a passenger. I was on my way to LaGuardia. The airport fares are the best. Even if you don't get a passenger on the way there, there's still enough money to be worth it. And it's a good thing to die on your way somewhere en route.

[Mal Fleming]

That doesn't make you feel incomplete?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

No, not at all. Or I was comfortable with the journey now. When you're driving, when you're on the road, it can feel like nothing will ever end. There's a different quality to the time. Like how light is different when it's reflected in a street puddle. I liked living there.

[Mal Fleming]

And how long did you live there?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I was a cab driver. For. I started in the 70s as a fleet driver. Was able to save up for my own medallion after a couple years. Kept driving in the 80s, 90s, up to Bloomberg. Eight hours a day, sometimes more. I took the job because you could set your own schedule a bit, you know, take breaks. When I started out, I'd take days off, go to Coney island for the sun. Eventually. I didn't see the point. Even when I was out of my cab, it was like I was still in transit. So I spent more time driving, less time in my apartment, less time sleeping. You get to choose when you're on the road, especially when you own your own medallion. Own your cab so you can drive as much as you want. I. I don't think I can add up the hours, but it's years. More than a decade, probably.

[Mal Fleming]

Did you ever think about retiring?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

No, not really. I could have. I bought my medallion when it was about 30,000. Before I died. It was nearly a million.

[Mal Fleming]

Oh.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Owned my apartment, too. But I like driving. I didn't want to stop. Didn't feel like I could, really. You want to hear something strange, Mal?

[Mal Fleming]

Of course.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

When it was late at night, especially when it was raining, especially when it was that early summer heat, like everything was sticky and the water was washing it off. It felt like. Like the road went on forever.

[Mal Fleming]

Like the drive would never end.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

More than that, though. Like the borders were washing away in the rain. The borders between night and day. One place and another. Life and death. When I was driving, it felt like this. Like how I am now. It felt a lot like this.

[Mal Fleming]

And did you enjoy that feeling?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I don't know. I don't know if I liked it exactly. It felt right, though. It felt comfortable. I liked hearing people's stories. That was the Best part, people would

[Mal Fleming]

just tell you their secrets.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Yeah, and more than that, When I was a part of a fleet, there was this other cabbie I'd talked to while we were waiting to get assigned. He used to be a priest. Catholic. Fell in love with a woman in his congregation. Got kicked out of the church when a deacon walked in on them. Committing sacrilege, I guess you could call it. The woman ended things when she realized she wasn't actually in love with him. She just liked the danger of it all. Maybe she was turned on by the incense, too. Who knows? Anyway, the ex priest, now cabbie, he said that the cab was a. How do you put it? A secular confessional. You've got the barrier. The driver's anonymous, there's the radio. But other than that, there's nothing to do except talk. So you can unburden yourself, say things you'd never say to anyone you actually knew. I was never religious. Grew up Eastern Orthodox. But the ex priest was right. There's something, if not sacred, hallowed about it. You hear stories driving a cab.

[Mal Fleming]

Do any of the stories stand out? If you don't mind sharing them.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I. I wasn't an actual priest. I'm not bound to secrecy. Yeah, I heard a lot of dreams. People trying to wish a future into being. Hoping that by talking to me it would make it more real, more likely to happen. It was. It was good to hear people who were new to the city, people who were still blinded by the lights and deafened by the street noise, gasping a little when they saw the taxi cabs. Just like in the movies. People who love New York. The only way someone who's lived here for just a few weeks can. Like giving right to a puppy. There was one kid, said he was 19. He was probably even younger. He had just gone into the city from somewhere. I think it was Michigan, Minnesota, maybe Montana. It began with an M. Anyway, his town was smaller than the one I was born in, and that's saying something. He was working as a waiter in some shishi restaurant in Tribeca. Found some roommates. I think he decided to hail a cab because, hey, he was in New York. If he wanted to hail a cab, he could. Just like in the movies. He was going to be an actor or a director or a writer. He hadn't decided yet, but he was only going to be a waiter for a while. Not that there was anything wrong with being a waiter. He was just. He was such a polite kid, such a small town kid. We got into some traffic and he told me about why he left and his parents didn't. I know I'm not a priest, and I'm not bound to. I still don't think it's my place to share.

[Mal Fleming]

Of course,

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I liked hearing from people like that. But there were so many other stories. Couples fighting in the backseat, family troubles, work troubles. There's the cheating. A lot of cheating women. Men, too, but mostly women. They'd tell me that they were going to see their lover, that they had a husband and some kids at home. But they needed something new, something different. A few hours every month or two where they weren't the person they'd been forged into by everything around them. But one of them, a gorgeous woman like. Like a young Sophia Loren. She flagged me down outside an apartment building on 57th. I usually avoid streets like that. Rich people are the really rich. They're always bad tippers. But like I said, she was gorgeous. Always fun to have gorgeous people in your cab. She strutted like she was on her way to a hair appointment. But she told me to drive to Green and Broom. This was back when actual artists lived in Soho. I just asked how she was doing, making conversation, and she just. She needed to tell someone. She said that it wasn't about the sex. The artist was a sculptor, so he had good hands, but that was the only decent thing about it. And her husband wasn't even a bad guy. A bit boring, a bit financed, but fine. No, it was about building a secret part of herself that was the attraction. By choosing this, she was proving to herself that she could still make choices. That she could still fuck up her life if she wanted to,

[Mal Fleming]

but she still kept it a secret. Except to you.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Except to me that I'm just a cab driver.

[Mal Fleming]

What do you think happened to her after she got out of the cab?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I think her and the sculptor had mediocre sex.

[Mal Fleming]

I mean, what.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I know what you mean. Maybe she had sex with him a few more times, then stopped keeping her secret like a locket next to her breast. Maybe she ran away from her life, left her rich husband, decided that she wasn't the person on 57th Street. She was the person in Soho in the taxi cab with me. I think. I think her favorite part of the experience. Cheating. It wasn't the sex. It was being in the taxi with me, telling me her secret. Who she really was, who she wanted to be. There's. There's something sacred in hearing that.

[Mal Fleming]

The secular confessional.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Exactly. I wonder if the woman who screwed the ex priest, the cabbie, ever told her secret in the backseat of a taxi? Probably not.

[Mal Fleming]

Why do you say that?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Well, when I was a fleet driver, I talked to some of the other cabbies. We'd swap stories, gossip. They heard a lot of cheating stories, but just from men, never women. And I heard a lot of cheating stories, but just from women. Makes sense. Especially back then. There weren't a lot of women cabbies. So the priest lover probably never shared her story.

[Mal Fleming]

I bet it's different than the story the ex priest told.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

You're right. I bet it is. I always wanted to pick up two sides of the same story. The cheater and the cuckold. The two brothers fighting over their dead mother's apartment. The childhood friends wondering if there was something more. But I never did. In my. Is it strange that I don't remember exactly how many years I drove a cab? I was thinking of it earlier when you asked me exactly how long I lived in that in between place on the road. I know in general, but it's the lane lines on the BQE melding together as you go faster and faster. Faster. That's just my imagination though. No one ever went that fast on the bqe.

[Mal Fleming]

Do you remember what made you want to become a taxi driver?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Yeah. My family and I immigrated to New York when I was young. But I never really felt part of the city. I wanted to know it. There's a freedom when you're driving in the city. It's not the same as the open road. It's a freedom of flowing like water, where you're most needed. And it's good money. My family said I'd get robbed and beaten up and the other drivers would piss in my coffee. That it wasn't something a girl like me should do. Which made me want to do it even more and more. They weren't wrong. Exactly. I got robbed twice. But I was lucky. They just took the money, not the car. A checker cab is tricky to boost. And when I was a fleet driver, the others took a while to get used to me. The dispatcher gave me the nickname Streisand. Do you get the joke? It's because I have a big nose. It's very funny. I told Jack that was the dispatcher. I told him that he looked like a witch, tried to turn a frog into a prince, but then got stuck halfway through. He didn't give me any good assignments for weeks after that.

[Mal Fleming]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

It's fine. I think part of him liked that I didn't take all of his shit. Most of the other drivers. You make a few jokes about pissing. You cover for them to dispatch. They get used to you. They see you as an exception to however they feel about women in general.

[Mal Fleming]

And

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I was only in a fleet for a few years. I got my medallion pretty quick. And once I got that, I'd see other cabbies occasionally at Belmore Cafeteria or places like that. But it was easy to keep to myself, to see the city from the front seat, hear stories, eavesdrop on people's lives. The stories, the images, they're still with me even now.

[Mal Fleming]

That sounds comforting.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Ferrying some club kids to some out of the way warehouse in Maspeth. Hearing the thumping bass blast from dozens of yards away. The kids checking their hair in the mirror, making sure it looked like they hadn't spent too much time on it. The coked up businessman, jittery and eager to tell you about how they were going to take over the world. Going to some restaurant that did something innovative with foam. They either tipped really well or not at all. The grandparents who couldn't afford a car, going for their monthly grocery trip. You had to help them with their bags after. I mean, you didn't have to, but you did. The grade A NYC characters, the accents and voices you don't hear anywhere else. The airport riots and the people that just needed to get out of the rainstorm. The moments when it would just be you in the car looking for a hail, only a radio to keep you company. Sometimes I turned the radio off and it would only be the sounds of the city and I'd feel like I was on a river ferrying people to where they needed to go. A priest and a confessor and a vessel for stories and souls and the teeming mass of a city that I was both part of and removed from. It was. I don't know what it was, but it was my life. What about you? Your life?

[Mal Fleming]

Excuse me.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

It feels a bit strange to be dominating the conversation. Not something I'm used to. Other cabbies love to talk. They thought that you had to do patter to get a good tip, but I. I think writers either want to talk about themselves or they want silence. So. I'm not accustomed to this, whatever this is.

[Mal Fleming]

I'm sorry, I don't.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Don't apologize. It's all right. Just. How are you doing, Mal?

[Mal Fleming]

In general or.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Well, it would depend on the person, but I'd usually ask them about the weather or sports or. Sometimes I didn't need to ask about anything. They just start talking. Strange to be on this side, I don't know how I feel about it.

[Mal Fleming]

Well, this week has been all right. I didn't realize how disgusting cat food actually is before I took in Bing Bong, But I'm starting to really enjoy the company. I think the cat's warming up to me. She winds at my bedroom door if I don't leave it open, which is both annoying and cute. I'm researching more about the widow Dotson. I think I might be starting to feel. Figure something out, which is exciting. And. I had a conversation with a ballet dancer a few days ago.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Jerome?

[Mal Fleming]

Yeah, Jerome Chalk.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Didn't think he'd ever open the onyx door. Congratulations.

[Mal Fleming]

Thank you. It was a fascinating conversation. The art scene of 70s and 80s New York. Well, you know about it. You were there.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I just drove some of them.

[Mal Fleming]

Still. I try not to engage in false nostalgia, but I do think there's something to be said for a city where artists could actually afford the rent. I promised Jerome I'd go to a ballet performance.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Have you been yet?

[Mal Fleming]

Yesterday.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

What did you think?

[Mal Fleming]

I don't know much about ballet or dancing. Probably obvious from the way I present myself, but it was set to a selection of Philip Glass pieces, which I appreciated. I like Philip Glass. It was. I wasn't quite sure how I felt, to be honest.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Really?

[Mal Fleming]

Yes. I don't think I understood any of it, if it was trying to say anything, but I think I was in awe of the way they moved, of their physicality, of the effort they put into the whole thing, the way they dedicated their lives to be able to do things that someone like me couldn't do in a. In a million years. It was like watching a baseball game, in a way. Watching people perform. Things that took your breath away. I wanted to. I don't know, tell the dancers that after the show. I think. I think everyone in the crowd did. After the curtain went down, I wanted to talk through what I was feeling, but. Well, I went alone.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

You're talking to me.

[Mal Fleming]

I guess you're right. Hmm. Is this why you don't want to pass on? Are you. Are you attached to Mal?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

If it were possible, I would switch positions with you.

[Mal Fleming]

What do you mean?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

When I was driving, I never wanted to stop hearing people's stories, getting little windows into their lives. And it felt like it would never end. Here in Grey Briar, you get to do the same thing. You're trying to convince people to open the onyx door. I was trying to get them to give a tip, but they. That's not what we're really after.

[Mal Fleming]

I.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

No, what. What we want is to listen. Mal, when you look at me, when you think about my life, how I spent it, do you pity me?

[Mal Fleming]

What do you mean?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Sometimes I. Sometimes I wonder if I should have been more. More than a repository for stories. I thought about this while I was alive, too. I came to the conclusion that because of something inside me, that I was fashioned in such a way that that's what I wanted to be. A driver. But more than that, A listener. So do you think I'm broken, Mal?

[Mal Fleming]

No. No, I don't.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

See, there's the pity.

[Mal Fleming]

I'm not.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

It's all right. You just need to decide whether you're like me. Do you think you are?

[Mal Fleming]

Mal, I don't. I'm not sure. I mean, I'm curious. I enjoy hearing other people's stories. When I started this job, I didn't know what it would entail. I thought it would be an archival gig, which interested me. But the fact that I can hear from an actual ward boss who lives through the height of Tammany hall, or an Irish emigre maid. Do you know how rare primary sources are for working class women, especially Servants, subway conductors, riders, Dodgers fans, ballet dancers. I wouldn't have gone to the ballet if I hadn't talked to Jerome. And they're all. They're all actual people whose lives were shaped by the grand machinations of history.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Like you?

[Mal Fleming]

Yes, like me. And even the permanent residents I can't get to pass on. It's. I find it a bit easier to connect with them than the living. I'm beginning to become friendly with some of them. Closer than I am to anyone alive. Perhaps that's a reflection on me. Not perhaps, certainly. And, you know, I'm now very confident that you all aren't hallucinations and that I'm not going mad. There were a few weeks where I sort of wavered back and forth. Fortunately, Newby and the other staff made it very clear what my primary responsibility is, even if they don't outright say it. I'm sorry for venting.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

It's okay.

[Mal Fleming]

You're a good listener. Not many of the permanent residents are. You must have been a great taxi driver. A great secular confessor.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

You're not bad yourself.

[Mal Fleming]

Thank you.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

It seems to me like you just need to decide whether you really want to walk the path I walked. If you want to walk a different path or walk the same path in a different way. Becoming friends with a maid who died a hundred years ago is.

[Mal Fleming]

Is what

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I Don't know. Maybe you can find all you need amongst the dead, hearing their stories, helping them. Maybe that's a life. But maybe you should live your own life. I don't know. I'm used to listening. I have no answers.

[Mal Fleming]

Are you sure you don't regret it? Not living your own life?

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I'm sure. Mostly. I don't think anyone is sure. When people were in the back of my cab when they told me stories about their lives, I think part of the reason why they talked about who they were was to convince themselves to make it true. You can never get out of your own head and look at yourself, Mal. The perspective never changes. You can only look at other people, hear their stories.

[Mal Fleming]

Thank you.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

For what?

[Mal Fleming]

For sharing your story. And for listening.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Of course. It's my job. This is the part where you ask for the tip.

[Mal Fleming]

Is there any way I can assist in your passage? Karen, I.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

I hope I can keep hearing stories. In whatever place, whatever happens.

[Mal Fleming]

I hope so, too. You can always stay here. There's no way for me to force a permanent resident to pass on. None that I've found, anyway.

[Karen Inge (Cab Driver Ghost)]

Yeah, getting tips was always tricky. No, no, I think. I think I needed someone to hear my story. Caldwell. That wasn't his job. It's not yours either. I guess you just assumed the role. Thanks to you two for listening. It's not something I'm used to, of course. I think that's my cue. All right, where to next?

[Mal Fleming]

Karen? Inchie. Passage completed.

[Podcast Outro Narrator]

You've been listening to Conversations with Ghosts, A Dead Signals production. For complete cast and crew credits, check out our [e-mail] Dead Signals is an independent operation and we're supported by our patrons. If you like what you hear and want to support the work we do, go to patreon.com archive81 to sign up. You'll get a bunch of fun extras, including behind the scenes Q&As, music, and access to the first podcast Mark and I ever made together. That's patreon.com archived1. As always, thanks for listening.

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