Clayton Eckerd (3:00)

We never slept together. We never had sex.

Stephanie Young (3:05)

When Clayton received that email from Laura saying she was pregnant by him, he was in disbelief. He didn't believe the photo of the test could be real, so he invited Laura to his apartment again.

Clayton Eckerd (3:17)

The reason I invited her over was to get her to take a pregnancy test right in front of me.

Stephanie Young (3:23)

Laura agreed to come over, but she was a step ahead. She'd already emailed Clayton the photo, but she brought the positive pregnancy test with her to show him in person. It was one of those at home tests where one line means not pregnant and two lines means pregnant. On the test Laura brought, Clayton could

Clayton Eckerd (3:42)

see one very, very present line, and the other one was, like, slightly there.

Stephanie Young (3:48)

Clayton did not see that coming.

Clayton Eckerd (3:50)

Well, I was having a hard time believing it because we didn't have sex. So I wanted her to take a test in front of me so that I could see it with my own eyes.

Stephanie Young (4:01)

Clayton told Laura he'd already purchased a test of his own and asked her if she'd mind taking a second test.

Clayton Eckerd (4:07)

I figured once I pulled out that surprise pregnancy test, she would decline to take it, that that would be the end of it all. But unfortunately, that's not what happened.

Stephanie Young (4:19)

When he asked her to take the

Clayton Eckerd (4:20)

second test, she was like, okay, yeah, I'll do it.

Stephanie Young (4:24)

Laura went into the bathroom, took the test, and for the next few minutes, all Clayton could do was wait for the truth to come to light.

Clayton Eckerd (4:33)

It was a torturous five minutes that felt like an eternity because I knew that a line either was or was not going to appear, and that singular line would dictate the outcome of my life.

Stephanie Young (4:52)

I'm Stephanie Young, and this is Love Trapped. There's no way out. You'd better believe

Laura Owens (5:04)

I'll be raising holy

Stephanie Young (5:06)

hell, my love, if you ever, ever, ever, ever

Laura Owens (5:14)

try to leave.

Stephanie Young (5:24)

We're going to go back to the night in question, the night when Laura Owens came over to Clayton's apartment for a hookup. Clayton didn't know it at the time, but that night would change his life forever. It would set off a chain of events that would lead to a criminal investigation, and it would lead me, a curious podcaster, to Clayton Eckard's door. Hi, Clayton. It's good to see you again.

Clayton Eckerd (5:46)

Hey, Steph. It's good to see you. So I should probably tell you how I got here, right?

Stephanie Young (5:54)

Let's go back to May of 2023. Clayton wasn't in a good place at the time. He was despised by Bachelor Nation and what felt like the entire Internet. He also had just met up with his ex, Susie Evans. He met her on the Bachelor. They dated for almost a year after they filmed the show, but eventually broke things off. Clayton was still torn up about it.

Clayton Eckerd (6:17)

And I thought, man, maybe this was a mistake to break up. Maybe in another world, if we didn't experience all this pain, we could have made it work.

Stephanie Young (6:26)

We've all been there, right? You see your ex and you suddenly start wondering if breaking up was a mistake.

Clayton Eckerd (6:32)

I was struggling and I remember I was crying my eyes out.

Stephanie Young (6:36)

This wasn't just any breakup. Clayton and Susie had announced their split on a joint Instagram post a few months earlier. Nearly 100,000 people liked this post.

Clayton Eckerd (6:47)

I definitely remember just the hate vitriol that people had.

Stephanie Young (6:52)

For me, the comment section was particularly brutal.

Clayton Eckerd (6:57)

I remember reading comments like, oh, this man got to have his cake and eat it too. After everything he did, he didn't have to suffer at all. Susie deserves so much better than this guy, this monster, this mess, this loser. I mean, I saw all of it. It was like as if she was dating the worst man. Al

Stephanie Young (7:17)

Clayton had taken a hard fall from grace and was adjusting to his new life as a real estate agent in Scottsdale, Arizona. There he was a big fish in a small pond. But his experience on the Bachelor left him feeling hollow.

Clayton Eckerd (7:32)

You come off the show and it's like your dopamine goes from being at like maximal level to just nose diving. I was depressed. I was basically like having withdrawal effects.

Stephanie Young (7:41)

To help him cope, he. He turned to weed.

Clayton Eckerd (7:43)

Sometimes I was getting high to feel that intense high that I felt when I was the Bachelor.

Stephanie Young (7:52)

It wasn't always weed. Sometimes it was sex or pizza. And on a good night, a combination

Clayton Eckerd (7:58)

of all three dopamine releasing activities, which is typically eating really good food, having sex. I just mash them all together so I could get something close to that feeling.

Stephanie Young (8:09)

I was surprised at how honest Clayton was about this period of his life. But as we heard last episode, that's Clayton honest. Maybe to a fault. In this case, his oversharing tendency is actually helpful because every detail of what happens next is important. It all started with a message on LinkedIn. We've had it read by a voice actor.

Laura Owens (8:36)

Hi, I'm looking to connect with similar minded young entrepreneurs in Scottsdale. I see that you work for. And I actually contacted them recently. They were going to connect me with someone who could help me find investment Properties, but haven't yet. Let me know if you can help.

Stephanie Young (8:52)

Laura saw that Clayton had just started as an agent and reached out. Clayton shared his phone number.

Clayton Eckerd (8:57)

To get the ball rolling, Laura reached out. She was looking to buy an investment property, and I had just got my realtor license, so I was looking to secure my very first deal.

Stephanie Young (9:08)

Clayton sent over the screenshots of their initial messages. They spent a few days texting, and during the chat, Laura mentioned that she was a competitive equestrian. And then on Saturday night, May 20,

Clayton Eckerd (9:22)

she sent me a photo of her standing by her horse.

Stephanie Young (9:27)

In the photo, Laura has her backside turned to the camera. She's petting a dark brown horse. She's wearing a crop top and beige riding leggings.

Clayton Eckerd (9:37)

And just call it for what it is. She had a nice ass.

Stephanie Young (9:41)

When I first heard about this photo, I really thought it was going to be way more revealing than it was.

Clayton Eckerd (9:46)

That's the mind of a man right there for you. It doesn't take much. The imagination takes us the rest of the distance.

Stephanie Young (9:54)

Clayton was at home assembling IKEA furniture. He'd already popped an edible.

Clayton Eckerd (9:59)

I saw the photo, and I was high, and so my mind, you know, wasn't thinking clearly. It was more so just thinking about what's in front of me in that moment. But I was like, look, why don't we just hang out?

Stephanie Young (10:12)

Laura agreed to come over that night. I asked Clayton the obvious. This was a hookup, right?

Clayton Eckerd (10:19)

Yeah.

Stephanie Young (10:19)

It was around 8pm Laura was buzzed up to Clayton's apartment. He opened the door to find a small woman smiling up at him. She had long dark hair, and she was dressed casually in a T shirt and leggings. By the time Laura arrived, Clayton was stoned. He'd taken 10 milligrams, which would send me to outer space, but that was his baseline. It just makes him chattier and makes the night more enjoyable, more chill. That's what he was. After a relaxing evening, he offered Laura an edible, too.

Clayton Eckerd (10:53)

I said, hey, if you want one, I took one, you're welcome to have it. And she said, yeah, sure, I'll take one.

Stephanie Young (10:59)

So they got high together and started talking. The conversation wasn't exactly foreplay. It was actually pretty intense.

Clayton Eckerd (11:06)

We talked about mental health and how, you know, I had struggled with feeling like I was enough. And she also struggled with feeling like she was enough in her life with her family, because her family was super accomplished. And she always felt like she was in the shadows of her father and her mom and even her sister, who has a kid. And is married. And so she feels like she has to live up to those expectations. And so that's caused her to feel like the black sheep of the family. And so I told her, like, I felt the same way, you know, in my life. But my middle brother, he was the superstar athlete. I was the one in his shadows, always trying to measure up to his success.

Stephanie Young (11:44)

They bonded, and after an hour or two of talking on the couch, I

Clayton Eckerd (11:48)

told her to, like, come over closer to me, and she did. And then that's when we started hooking up.

Stephanie Young (11:53)

And if you're wondering why we're about to go into this level of detail, I promise it becomes important to the story.

Clayton Eckerd (12:01)

She gets on top of me. But then she stopped me and was like, hey, I don't want to have sex tonight. And I said, oh, okay, yeah, that's totally fine. She's like, not on the first night. We can do it at a later point. This just gives you another reason to, like, see me again.

Stephanie Young (12:18)

Laura was still down to hook up, but wanted to keep penetrative sex off the table for the first night. According to Clayton, they headed to the bedroom and had oral sex, where we

Clayton Eckerd (12:28)

lay there, we fall asleep in the

Stephanie Young (12:30)

bed, and a few hours later, we

Clayton Eckerd (12:33)

wake up, start making out again. She does oral again, and then she ran to the bathroom, like, immediately after.

Stephanie Young (12:46)

The next morning, Clayton was hit with a wave of regret. Laura was his client. This could be his first real estate deal, and he might have just blown it, so to speak. He started kicking himself for crossing a professional boundary. But Laura was still interested in working with him. In fact, the two of them made plans later that afternoon to look at a couple homes.

Clayton Eckerd (13:07)

She ended up staying overnight, stayed until the early morning. She then left. I went to church, cleared my mind, and then ended up meeting back up with her to show homes later that day.

Stephanie Young (13:20)

Clayton wanted to keep Laura as a client. So at the end of their home

Clayton Eckerd (13:24)

tours, she's all in this happy mood, and I felt really bad, so I was like, we gotta talk.

Stephanie Young (13:31)

Sitting in his car, he found the right moment to finally tell her what was on his mind.

Clayton Eckerd (13:36)

I feel bad because I didn't explain my intentions last night. I'm not looking to date, and my intentions were to just have a fun night. That was just a one time thing. And I want you to know that because I don't want there to be miscommunication going forward. She quickly jumped in and said, no, no, don't have to apologize at all. Like, I'm so grateful. I'm happy Last night happened. I had so much fun.

Stephanie Young (14:01)

Clayton had fun, too, but he felt like he'd crossed a professional line and that wasn't how he wanted to start off his real estate career. So he offered to make it right with Laura and find her a new agent to work with.

Clayton Eckerd (14:14)

She said, no, no, I want to work with you. It's not awkward at all, but, like, you know, can you just keep an open mind like that maybe there could be something between us.

Stephanie Young (14:23)

She wasn't getting the picture. So at that point, he had to make himself crystal clear. What happened the night before was never happening again.

Clayton Eckerd (14:33)

After telling Laura, no, like, there's no future here between us, the tone had shifted. And then she started to cry. And I remember that moment. It was this kind of like, oh, oh, wow. This is way more intense than I anticipated this would be. I mean, I just met this woman, and now she's crying in my car and she's telling me, well, hey, I really thought that we have a lot in common. We both have struggled with self confidence and self love. And so I really feel that I can help you find that within you and also within myself at the same time. And it was. It just. It was just such an intense but, like, awkward situation because I didn't feel at all the same way that she felt. I was trying to be mindful of her emotions and say, hey, this is how she feels, so I need to give weight to this scenario. But there was a disconnect because my brain was telling me, you've not even known this woman long enough for this to be like an actual realistic response. Like, this is way out of the norm.

Stephanie Young (15:40)

It had only been five days since Laura's initial LinkedIn message, and yet Laura kept pushing, almost begging for Clayton to give her a chance.

Clayton Eckerd (15:49)

I finally got annoyed. I said, laura, no means no. And when I said that, she went from crying to her face going completely stone cold. She stared at me and just shakes her head and goes, no, I get it. Thanks for letting me know. Have a good rest of your day. Gave me a weird smile, opened the car door closed, it walked off.

Stephanie Young (16:18)

Something about her reaction was deeply unsettling.

Clayton Eckerd (16:21)

I remember just getting chills over my

Stephanie Young (16:24)

entire body when he told her he didn't want to hook up again. It was like a switch flipped.

Clayton Eckerd (16:30)

Something was off, because that look she gave me, it's like the lights went off in the house and she was no longer there. Not the version of Laura that I knew up until that point.

Stephanie Young (16:41)

Clayton knew he'd made a mistake, at least professionally, but he had no idea what he'd just stepped into.

Clayton Eckerd (16:47)

I sat there as I watched her walk back to her car, and I go, I don't know what that was, but whatever that was, that's not the end of it.

Stephanie Young (17:04)

Segregation in the day, integration at night.

Laura Owens (17:09)

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

Stephanie Young (17:15)

We didn't worry about what went on outside.

Clayton Eckerd (17:17)

It was like stepping in another world.

Laura Owens (17:20)

Inside Charlie's Place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

Clayton Eckerd (17:28)

You saw the kkk. Yeah, they was dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

Laura Owens (17:45)

From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts on wherever you get your podcast.

Stephanie Young (18:04)

Ambitious, well intentioned, ferocious and wealthy mother looks like in the Black community this woman's History Month the podcast Keep It Posit Sweetie celebrates the power of women choosing healing, purpose and faith. Even when life gets messy, love is not a destination.

Clayton Eckerd (18:20)

You have to work on it every day.

Stephanie Young (18:21)

Keep It Positive Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self, self worth, love, growth and navigating life with grace and grit, led by women who uplift, inspire and tell the truth out loud.

Laura Owens (18:33)

I have several conversations with God and I know why it took 20 years

Stephanie Young (18:39)

to hear this and more. Listen to Keep It Positive sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast, Between Us with me,

Clayton Eckerd (19:00)

Heather Dubrow, and me, Terry Debro. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids.

Stephanie Young (19:06)

It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous.

Clayton Eckerd (19:15)

Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about.

Stephanie Young (19:22)

And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok.

Clayton Eckerd (19:27)

Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun.

Stephanie Young (19:34)

We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here, and plenty

Clayton Eckerd (19:39)

of did they just say that? Moments.

Stephanie Young (19:42)

Listen to between us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Clayton Eckerd (19:47)

Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy, so here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassie and Jake?

Laura Owens (20:00)

No.

Clayton Eckerd (20:00)

But did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine affects brain development? Nuh. You don't need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council.

Stephanie Young (20:27)

The two biggest questions I get when I tell people about this story Was Laura a contestant on Clayton's season of the Bachelor? Which is an easy one to answer? No. That's usually always followed up with then who is Laura Owens? Truth be told, that's the question I've been trying to answer for the last six months. I've reached out to her former friends, teachers, attorneys, colleagues, and I'm either met with people who don't want anything to do with this or they don't respond at all. And of course, I reached out to Laura herself. At the time I'm recording this, she hasn't agreed to an interview, but she did send me a long email. We'll get into that later. I want to start by playing you Laura's side of the story. What you're about to hear is the real Laura Owens telling the court her version of what happened with Clayton Eckerd. He was my realtor to start with. And then we were intimate one night in May of this year. After that, on June 1st, I found out that I was pregnant and I figured he probably wouldn't believe it, so I went to urgent care and had it confirmed there by a doctor. And then I told him I hadn't been intimate with anyone else. Since March of 2022. I've tried to get Clayton to accept responsibility and figure out a parenting plan with me, but that really been it. It's not like it's been a dating relationship and we've communicated via email for the most part. I wanted to get a picture of who Laura is outside of this case. That turned out to be more elusive than I expected. The good news is Laura's been posting online for the better part of 15 years. She's appeared in videos and podcasts. She's written Medium articles and was actively replying to comments on Reddit. One of the most interesting things she's appeared in is a series of YouTube videos where she's talking with one of her attorneys, David Jingres. We will be playing audio from videos David posted to his YouTube channel, which have since been pulled down. Fortunately, we were able to obtain a copy before they were removed. Here's the start of one of those videos. You'll hear David first, I think we

Clayton Eckerd (22:49)

need to have the public get to know you a little bit better. We need to do this a bit more often and, you know, try to, try to take some control back of the narrative.

Stephanie Young (23:00)

In the videos, Laura's attorney asks her get to know you questions.

Clayton Eckerd (23:05)

I feel dirty like asking these questions because I just feel like it's nobody's effing business. But let's go ahead and talk about it because I think you're okay with it. So let's talk about your high school dating career. I mean, I, I, my high school dating career is pretty damn exciting. Let's, let's hear about yours.

Stephanie Young (23:18)

Mine was, I'm sure, the opposite of yours. I had no boyfriends in high school. I didn't have my first kiss until the week before graduation. It's pretty uncommon for a lawyer to make social media content with a client, especially a client involved in a high profile scandal.

Clayton Eckerd (23:36)

I mean, what I say as far as I want both sides of the story to be out there and I don't want people to be mad at anybody. You shouldn't be mad at Laura. I mean, Laura, look, obviously if you lied and made the whole thing up, you know, you deserve some punishment. I, I've said that all along, that if that's what the facts bear out, I'm not going to stand by your side. I'm not here to defend people that do stuff like that.

Stephanie Young (23:58)

In these videos, her attorney David does most of the talking.

Clayton Eckerd (24:01)

You're a little different, you know, you're a little different. I've said that you're a little different. I think you, you suffer from having an unbelievably high iq. I think you're very, very bright girl and I think you're just a little different.

Stephanie Young (24:20)

Laura Owens grew up in San Francisco where her parents were local celebrities.

Clayton Eckerd (24:29)

Good morning, I'm Ron Owens, KGO radio. Monday through Friday, nine until noon. And today we are also on C Span so you can also.

Stephanie Young (24:35)

Laura's father, Ron Owens, is a radio hall of famer. He hosted a popular radio Talk show on KGO in San Francisco. It ran for over 40 years. Ron was definitely at the top of the heap. He was a very trusted voice. That's longtime Bay Area reporter Martha Ross. I called her for some more context about Ron Owens and his show. He would always have the best political leaders on or like a movie star coming through. And you always felt like you would learn something. Laura's mom, Jan Black, was a drivetime news anchor at two local radio stations, KGO and kcbs. When Laura was a kid, her parents were kind of a media power couple in town. They would go to all the best restaurants and when Ron was out at restaurants, he'd be recognized by fans. When then Senator Obama was starting his first presidential campaign, he went on the Ron Owens Report.

Clayton Eckerd (25:37)

It's our number two Ron Owens, KGO radio. In the studio, Senator Barack Obama. Not much of a buzz around you, but it's interesting to have you on. It's very good to meet you.

Stephanie Young (25:47)

Ron Owens got an hour with Obama. I spoke to a former producer at KGO who told me about how other local reporters lined up down the hallway to try to get a clip from Obama afterwards. All that to say Ron Owens was a big deal.

Clayton Eckerd (26:03)

If you're president 90 days, I get the interview in the Oval Office with you. It's got to be in the Oval Office. I need to check with the Secret Service. Is that allowed? You will get an interview. You will get an interview in the first 90 days.

Stephanie Young (26:15)

Her dad's fame is a big part of Laura's origin story. Here's another clip from Laura and her attorney.

Clayton Eckerd (26:21)

Your dad had a hell of a career. Is that him and Obama? Wow.

Stephanie Young (26:26)

Yeah.

Clayton Eckerd (26:26)

I had no idea when I got involved in this case, you know, what kind of a career. I didn't know how significant of a broadcasting guy your dad was.

Stephanie Young (26:35)

While she never fully got into radio, Laura co hosted a podcast with her mom, Jan Black. It was a self help podcast and Laura's mom worked her media connections. They had famous guests on the podcast like Bob Saget, Elizabeth Smart and Dr. Drew. Welcome to Nobody Told Me. I'm Jan Black. And I'm Laura Owens. We are a mother daughter duo and today we're a mother daughter trio as we're joined on this episode by my other daughter, Sarah Owens, my older daughter who is also Laura's sister. The Owens family is exceptionally tight knit. Laura's 35 now. She lives with her parents. From what she's posted online, she's talked about feeling socially isolated. Here's that video with her attorney again. It wasn't like I was the least popular kid in school or anything. I just really kept myself and I was just obsessed with the whole like horse showing, starting a business, doing like flipping horses and stuff. I was very different from everybody. When she says flipping horses, she means as a business. The Owens family runs a company called Quartet Farms. They buy, sell and lease high end horses.

Clayton Eckerd (27:50)

You obviously are a horse person. When did that start?

Stephanie Young (27:53)

That started when I was 8 and there was a stable that was just 10 minutes away at the time in Golden Gate park, so it was convenient. These show horses can cost up to $80,000. They can be a risky investment. But Laura's family seemed to have the money. Here's her dad, ron, in a 2013 interview.

Clayton Eckerd (28:14)

My daughters are 22 and 24. The younger one is very much into country music and horses, which have enabled me to go broke pretty much. And I'm very proud of her. But damn, that's expensive.

Stephanie Young (28:33)

She, she's been competing in horse shows for her entire life. She's actually really good. She's won numerous competitions.

Clayton Eckerd (28:41)

408. Laura Owens.

Stephanie Young (28:47)

The Owens family clearly has a soft spot for animals. Here's a clip from Laura's podcast with her mom. They had her dad on for a Father's Day episode. What were the first things that we

Clayton Eckerd (28:57)

talked about that you and I talked about? Probably horses.

Stephanie Young (29:02)

Animals. Probably animals.

Clayton Eckerd (29:03)

Animals. Because you loved every animal. You have really done a number with me because now I'm as bad as you are. I just look at every animal and I and every dog and then, yeah, just bring them on.

Stephanie Young (29:14)

I talked to someone who works at a San Francisco dog rescue. They told me that over the years the Owens family has adopted 11 senior dogs near the end of their lives. Here's Laura showing off her senior dog to her attorney.

Clayton Eckerd (29:28)

Let's see the dog.

Stephanie Young (29:30)

Here's one of the dogs.

Clayton Eckerd (29:31)

What's his name, his captain.

Stephanie Young (29:33)

He's the one who's a million years old. In terms of her career, Laura's mostly worked for her family businesses, either the horse farm or the podcast with her mom. At one time, Laura's LinkedIn profile listed her as a radio dating and relationship expert and songwriter.

Clayton Eckerd (29:51)

My younger daughter is on the cusp of becoming a country music singer. She has written songs and she is in the midst of, of mastering this first song. And I got to tell you, it's phenomenal.

Stephanie Young (30:08)

That was Laura's dad, Ron, talking about Laura's singing career in an interview. She's posted some of her music online. Here's a clip from one of Laura's songs. It's called Dogs. The truth is you rescued me, you rescued me, rescued me. Laura and I are around the same age, and honestly, on paper, she had it all. She had the kind of privileged upbringing people dream of. And yet I got the sense that she was still searching for something. What really struck me during my research, though, was the silence. In the bachelor world, there's almost always someone willing to stick up for both sides. But as I reached out to people, hardly anyone would go to bat for her. There was one person who gave me a substantial response about Laura. It was a former friend of hers. This friend asked me not to use her name. She didn't want to participate in the podcast, but in response to me, she wrote something cryptic. She said, I'm not really the type to follow this stuff, but I do know, innately that people are fighting their own battles. And I think compassion, even in the face of deep frustration, goes a long way. I think she's referring to battles Laura's facing internally, battles that would soon be on full display.

Laura Owens (31:49)

My name is Laura Owens, and I

Stephanie Young (31:51)

just feel like it's important for me to speak out and say that this is.

Laura Owens (31:59)

This is how I'm feeling as a

Stephanie Young (32:01)

result of what they've done to me. And this is how it looks like if you've been cyber bullied, as I have mischaracterized for months. Segregation in the day, integration at night.

Laura Owens (32:28)

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

Stephanie Young (32:33)

We didn't worry about what went on outside.

Clayton Eckerd (32:36)

It was like stepping on another world.

Laura Owens (32:39)

Inside Charlie's Place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

Clayton Eckerd (32:46)

You saw the kkk. Yeah, they was dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

Laura Owens (33:04)

From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stephanie Young (33:22)

An ambitious, well intentioned, ferocious and wealthy mother looks like in the black community. This woman's History Month.

Laura Owens (33:29)

The podcast Keep It Positive.

Stephanie Young (33:31)

Sweetie celebrates the power of women, choosing healing, purpose and faith. Even when life gets messy, love is not a destination. You have to work on it every day. Keep it positive. Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self worth, love, growth and navigating life with grace and grit, led by women who uplift, inspire and tell the truth. Out loud.

Laura Owens (33:52)

I have several conversations with God and I know why it took 20 years

Stephanie Young (33:58)

to hear this and more.

Laura Owens (33:59)

Listen to To Keep It Pies as

Stephanie Young (34:00)

sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together, four kids, and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments, we know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast, Between Us with me,

Clayton Eckerd (34:19)

Heather Dubrow, and me, Terry debrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids.

Stephanie Young (34:25)

It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous.

Clayton Eckerd (34:33)

Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about.

Stephanie Young (34:40)

And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok.

Clayton Eckerd (34:45)

Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun.

Stephanie Young (34:53)

We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here and plenty

Clayton Eckerd (34:58)

of did they just say that? Moments.

Stephanie Young (35:00)

Listen to between us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Clayton Eckerd (35:06)

Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy, so here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassie and Jake?

Stephanie Young (35:18)

No.

Clayton Eckerd (35:19)

But did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine affects brain development? Nuh. You don't need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the Ad Council.

Stephanie Young (35:45)

Clayton was sitting in his car trying to process the conversation he just had with Laura. He told her he wasn't interested in continuing any type of romantic relationship with her.

Clayton Eckerd (35:56)

When he said that, Laura said, no, I get it. Have a great day. She got out of my car. She slammed that car door. I remember just getting chills over my entire body.

Stephanie Young (36:09)

Clayton drove away and he was relieved but disturbed.

Clayton Eckerd (36:13)

It was a very, very unsettling feeling. And I just remember thinking, I don't know what that was, but whatever that was, it's not over. There's something more that's to come from all of this.

Stephanie Young (36:28)

Within a Couple of hours, his phone began blowing up with texts from Laura.

Clayton Eckerd (36:33)

She's like, well, what if we just go out and grab drinks? Let's just like, not jump too far ahead, you know? And I said, hey, like, we can go out and grab drinks once we end up getting the deal done.

Stephanie Young (36:44)

But Laura wasn't getting the message. She kept asking for a chance. Her texts are being read by a voice actor.

Laura Owens (36:52)

I honestly didn't expect to like you as much as I did, and I'm very sad that you pretty much closed the door. I truly have no expectations except to see if that naturally develops without your halting it. I'm just asking you to consider. It pains me that you won't even consider giving me a chance. You've tried a lot of things, but you haven't tried me, who actually empathizes and has been in dark spots like you've been in and got. What if you just honestly and openly gave it a week to be open to something maybe eventually happening with absolutely no expectations.

Stephanie Young (37:28)

Clayton let Laura down gently again, apologized to Laura, and reiterated that he just wanted to be friends.

Clayton Eckerd (37:35)

She was texting me a lot, and it was just overwhelming, but also, like, really weird.

Stephanie Young (37:43)

Clayton told me he started to feel uncomfortable, but he was still trying to make his first real estate sale. And Laura was still adamant about Clayton being her realtor. She asked to look at another property, so Clayton set it up and met Laura there a couple days later.

Clayton Eckerd (37:59)

At the time, I was new to real estate, so I didn't know what to look for as far as understanding how serious someone is at purchasing a home. There are obvious signs. People will, like, open drawers, they'll, like, close every cabinet, see if it's soft clothes, but they're looking behind every little corner. She wasn't doing that.

Stephanie Young (38:18)

Laura seemed less interested in the house and more interested in Clayton.

Clayton Eckerd (38:24)

We were walking through the house, and I remember it had a couch that I ended up sitting down on to talk with her about the house, if she liked it. She ended up sitting down right next to me, like, as if we were dating. There was no distance between us, and she ended up, like, resting her head on my shoulder.

Stephanie Young (38:43)

As you can imagine, Clayton was frustrated that she wasn't respecting his boundaries.

Clayton Eckerd (38:48)

She wasn't listening to what I was saying. But again, I wanted my money.

Stephanie Young (38:53)

He's talking about the real estate commission he would get from the sale.

Clayton Eckerd (38:56)

I just need to get through this next month, and then it's goodbye. I have a great one.

Stephanie Young (39:02)

But once they went their separate ways after seeing the Property. The texts continued.

Laura Owens (39:07)

Would you be really mad if I told you that you looked super handsome? And that combined with you being super confident and smart about everything, made it hard to keep my hands to myself? If that makes you mad, I'm really sorry. I want to respect your boundaries, but I didn't know if that was maybe a somewhat reciprocated feeling. And I can't stop thinking about how much I want to do to you what I did the other night.

Stephanie Young (39:34)

Laura was ignoring the lines Clayton had drawn.

Clayton Eckerd (39:37)

So he told her, let's keep this friendly amongst one another. Like, only talk to me in the way that you would talk to me, as if I were a friend.

Stephanie Young (39:48)

Despite being frustrated with Laura's behavior, Clayton was really trying to give her the benefit of the doubt so he could help her buy investment properties. The real estate process was typically pretty easy to navigate.

Clayton Eckerd (40:00)

Honestly, writing a real estate contract, putting an offer on a house is very simple. You go see the house, then afterwards you sit there with your realtor and you say, I want to write an offer at these terms. So you put down the amount of money you want to offer, whether you're doing cash or loan, and that's really it. And you say, I'd like to close on this date. And then you take that formal document, you email it to the listing agent, and there you go, you have an official offer.

Stephanie Young (40:29)

This process with Laura wasn't simple. She told Clayton she wanted to make some offers and asked him to write up the contracts. But she continued to complicate things.

Clayton Eckerd (40:40)

She said, thinking about it like, if you're not gonna, you know, give me a chance, there's so many other agents out there that I could work with instead of you.

Stephanie Young (40:49)

By now, Clayton was convinced Laura had no interest in actually buying property. He told her he'd get the contracts ready, but because he didn't trust her, he hadn't actually done it.

Clayton Eckerd (41:00)

I knew that she wasn't actually serious about buying the homes. She was just using the contracts to stay in touch with me and to try to continue a connection.

Stephanie Young (41:11)

That's when Clayton hit his breaking point.

Clayton Eckerd (41:13)

So I said, you know what, Laura? I'm going to make a decision to cut this off. I'm going to send you to one of my co workers and they can help you from here on out.

Stephanie Young (41:21)

Laura did not like that at all. So she took matters into her own own hands. She messaged the selling agents directly to check the status of her offers. And since Clayton didn't actually submit her contracts, she was given the news that they didn't exist.

Clayton Eckerd (41:36)

And there went the first oh, shit moment. She's clinging on to this contract. And that opened the door to the pressure that she could put on me to be like, why are they saying this? Why don't they have offers? You said you sent them. Did you lie to me because you'd be violating your fiduciary responsibilities? And now because I'm not dating her, she's going to try to get my license revoked.

Stephanie Young (41:58)

And to make a long story short, that's exactly what Laura did. A few weeks later, she reached out to the Arizona Department of Real Estate to file a complaint.

Clayton Eckerd (42:08)

On paper, I violated a fiduciary responsibility. I lied to a client, which I admit I did. But I told them with good purpose, with good reason. I sent them over all of those text messages I had up until that point. And it was very apparent that this woman was just trying to date me and she had no intention of buying real estate.

Stephanie Young (42:26)

And while the Arizona Department of Real Estate believed his side of the story, they also found him in violation with that information.

Clayton Eckerd (42:34)

They stated that, yes, while you were in the wrong, we will not be pursuing any type of punishment. So I got off basically without any bumps or bruises.

Stephanie Young (42:46)

Clayton had his suspicions about Laura and felt he needed to dig a little bit deeper. What he found on her Instagram validated his beliefs.

Clayton Eckerd (42:55)

She followed only athletes and celebrities and good looking guys. She was absolutely targeting a man and had a particular type that she was after.

Stephanie Young (43:06)

Clayton removed himself as Laura's realtor five days after they hooked up. At this point, he had rejected her romantically and now professionally, he told her he would not be responding to any further texts from her. That didn't stop Laura. She immediately responded with a long text message. We've had it read by a voice actor.

Laura Owens (43:26)

I have one final thing to say that I think you might find important and have nothing to lose by sharing it with you. I have been in a dark place, as I said yesterday, and emotionally tortured since we hooked up, because I felt like I didn't know how to bring this up to you. But at this point, I might as well. I have not been on birth control since 15 months ago. There hasn't been a reason since. As I said, I hadn't done anything with anyone since then. Being sexually responsible was not on my radar. After taking the gummy and our clothes coming off, when I went to the bathroom afterwards, some of your fluids were down there.

Stephanie Young (44:08)

That is Laura's version of what happened in the bathroom after her hookup with Clayton. Later, her Account of this night would change dramatically. But her text continued with Laura saying,

Laura Owens (44:20)

in all honesty, I was planning to take Plan B when I got home. But then when you said you were going to church, I realized you had a strong faith base as well, and questioned whether or not it was a sign that I should. Then after we talked in the car, I felt even more so, like both of us had a deep belief in God and like it was a sign I should just leave it up to him and not buy it.

Stephanie Young (44:42)

Laura was now bringing religion into the conversation.

Clayton Eckerd (44:46)

I knew what she was doing. I mean, she was trying to weaponize Christianity against me. She wanted me to start to think, like, what would God think about this?

Stephanie Young (44:56)

Laura's text continued on. The next paragraph included a kind of forewarning.

Laura Owens (45:02)

My podcast had a fertility test kit as a sponsor. And so, yes, I know I'm fertile at this point from my overwhelming research on Plan B since Sunday. It's most effective three days after, but can still work five days out, meaning this is the last day I could take it and have a hope of it working if it needs to. If you have any thoughts about this, I'm open to hearing you out if and only if you are kind and respectful. This has been extremely stressful on me. If I don't hear back from you, I'm not going to take Plan B.

Stephanie Young (45:40)

When I read the full transcript of their texts from these early weeks, I was overwhelmed. There's an increasing urgency in her tone, and she's starting to set conditions and deadlines for Clayton. He told me that he tried to remain calm in his replies and give her as little emotional response as possible. He felt uncomfortable being asked to make a decision about Plan B. She knew her own body better than he did.

Clayton Eckerd (46:04)

To me, it's a woman and her body. So ultimately, I don't really have much of a say in it. And I never really push. I'm just like, hey, if you're comfortable, then yeah, take it. It would make me feel more comfortable. And that's usually how it goes. It's very simple. So this was obviously way, way different. Laura was being very odd about it, like putting way too much on me to make the decision.

Stephanie Young (46:27)

She concludes the text message with, you're

Laura Owens (46:30)

obviously free to think that I'm full of shit, but I'm not. I'll take it as a sign that you don't care what happens either way and will just allow God's will, whatever that is, to be the determining factor. If I do test positive in a few weeks, though, there is a 0% chance of it being anyone's but yours. I'd take any test to prove it. And at that point, any input from you won't matter.

Stephanie Young (46:53)

Clayton's response was direct and simple.

Clayton Eckerd (46:56)

I gave her a really quick answer. Just take the Plan B. I support that.

Stephanie Young (47:02)

After Clayton sent that message, Laura responded with another lengthy text that was similar to the one before it. That's when Clayton blocked her. But shortly after, she messaged him from another phone number.

Clayton Eckerd (47:17)

This is where it was a whirlwind of text messages. She's probably texting me 25, 30 times a day. It was getting ridiculous.

Laura Owens (47:24)

Hi, it's Laura, and this is my work number. Having issues with my personal number when I tried to send this. If you think I'm trying to hold on, you need to check your ego. I'm not lying. And if you think I haven't been tortured about whether or not to take plan B, you're crazy. I think you're confusing me with girls who come from a very different background than mine. Don't tell me I can't keep my story straight when I don't have one. I have the truth, which isn't changing. I wasn't quite as high as you were and definitely remember what happened and what I felt. I googled it because I didn't know if it was possible to get pregnant without intercourse. It is. I think we're both panicked and not in the right mindset. You're not acting great, but neither am I. If I am in fact pregnant. Blocking my number won't prevent you from knowing about it. Trust me, you will find out right away. Despite that. And I won't be having an abortion under any circumstances.

Stephanie Young (48:15)

It felt like Laura was getting ahead of herself, since at that point she didn't even know if she was actually pregnant. Clayton decided to block her other number as well. But Laura didn't let that stop her. She had promised he'd find out the news one way or another, and she stayed true to her word. Eleven days after they met up, she sent him an email with the news that she was pregnant.

Clayton Eckerd (48:40)

If I remember correctly, I was in my apartment and the email comes through and I open it and it's as if, like, everything went blank. I couldn't make sense of what I was reading. I didn't think that it was real.

Stephanie Young (48:56)

Clayton was hell bent on the fact that he and Laura never had sex, so this really didn't make sense to him.

Clayton Eckerd (49:04)

At this point in my life, this isn't my first hookup. It's not my first rodeo.

Stephanie Young (49:08)

Clayton was spiraling and decided to switch gears. He asked Laura for permission to speak with her mom, Jan Black, which Laura agreed to. So Clayton called Jan to tell her what was going on with her daughter.

Clayton Eckerd (49:24)

I said, here's the main sticking point. Your daughter is telling me that she is going to have a child unless I date her. So if I date her, she'll get an abortion, but if I don't date her, she's having a child.

Stephanie Young (49:37)

At this point, this was Clayton's understanding of Laura's demands. It made him uncomfortable, which is why he wanted to speak with her mom.

Clayton Eckerd (49:45)

I said, it's her body, her choice.

Stephanie Young (49:48)

Clayton explained to Jan that he respected Laura's decision to keep the baby or not. He made it clear that he did not want involvement in Laura's life, which also meant raising the baby. But the biggest point he wanted to make in all of this to Laura's mom was the following.

Clayton Eckerd (50:04)

Here's the problem I have, and I think you would agree with me, that, like, she shouldn't have a child based on whether or not somebody wants to date her.

Stephanie Young (50:11)

He expected Jan to understand his concern. After all, this was her grandchild in question. He wanted Jan to speak with Laura and help her come to a decision.

Clayton Eckerd (50:22)

Her response was, well, you know what, to be honest with you, that's just really disappointing to hear because, you know, you are responsible for impregnating my daughter, and she's a really great girl. I think you would see that if you were to give her a chance, but you just haven't given her a chance at all. And so I'm just really, you know, honestly disappointed that this is the route you're going to go, because my daughter has a lot of great qualities, and you haven't given her any chance to prove that to you.

Stephanie Young (50:51)

Clayton was almost too stunned to speak.

Clayton Eckerd (50:54)

I think I said something along the lines of like, excuse me. I'm like, you're telling me that you think that's. That's okay? And she goes, yeah, again, my daughter's an incredible woman, but you're not giving her any chance, which I think is so unfair. And so I was just like, oh, okay. I'm like, well, this isn't at all how I thought the conversation was going to go. Thank you for your time. Have a great rest of your day.

Stephanie Young (51:15)

This phone call made him feel like he was in the twilight Zone.

Clayton Eckerd (51:19)

And I hung up, and I was just like, are you kidding me?

Stephanie Young (51:25)

Clayton reached out to Laura's mom, hoping for a lifeline that never came. Feeling backed into a corner and panicking, his gut told him this whole thing was bullshit. He stayed firm in his belief that there was no way he'd impregnated her. But he needed proof. He could see with his own eyes. A week later, he invited Laura over again with one goal in mind. He wanted her to take a pregnancy test right in front of him. She brought one with her, but Clayton had purchased one of his own, just to be sure.

Clayton Eckerd (51:58)

So she goes into the bathroom, and she goes to close the door, and I go, oh, no, no. I said, I want to see you pee on the stick. She goes, what? Oh, my gosh, no, I can't do that. There's no way I'll be able to pee if you're watching me.

Stephanie Young (52:11)

As suspicious as Clayton was, he was trying to make sure she wasn't altering the test in any way. But he understood why it would make her uncomfortable.

Clayton Eckerd (52:20)

I used to have to do drug tests in college when I played football, and we would literally have to drop our pants and have somebody stand there and look at us pee like. Like someone standing right over our shoulder, and it was so uncomfortable.

Stephanie Young (52:36)

Clayton said Laura agreed to a plan where he'd close the bathroom door. Once she started to go, she finishes,

Clayton Eckerd (52:43)

and she walks out, and she's like, all right. It takes, like, five minutes.

Stephanie Young (52:47)

If you've ever taken a pregnancy test or had a partner take a pregnancy test, you know that waiting for the result, whatever result you want it to be, feels like a lifetime.

Clayton Eckerd (52:58)

I'm hunched over the sink. Laura's standing right off to my left. And it was just quiet. It was just her and I. Just the two of us looking at that pregnancy test and waiting for the results. One line shows up right away.

Stephanie Young (53:23)

His stomach dropped. He sat there staring at it, waiting to see if the second line would appear.

Clayton Eckerd (53:30)

It was one of the scariest moments of my life, because you're looking at a little indicator, and either your life changes forever or it doesn't. If two lines show up, my life is forever changed, and there's no in between. It's literally one extreme to the other. And then the second line starts coming in.

Stephanie Young (54:00)

The test was positive. Laura started to console Clayton.

Clayton Eckerd (54:05)

She's just like, how are you feeling? She starts rubbing my back because I'm leaning over at this point. I'm leaning over the sink, and I'm just in disbelief. I have my hand pressing against my forehead, and I'm just like, elbows on the countertop. I just remember staring at the lines and seeing it's positive and thinking, oh my gosh, I am going to be connected to this woman forever.

Stephanie Young (54:31)

With Laura standing right behind him, Clayton felt the last bit of hope slip away. There was no more arguing with the evidence.

Clayton Eckerd (54:40)

Like, holy shit, like she's actually pregnant. This is really real. Or at least that's what I thought at the time.

Stephanie Young (54:52)

But in the coming months, Clayton would begin to question everything.

Clayton Eckerd (54:58)

Something doesn't seem right with this story. The dating contract, stalkerish behavior. She sent me over 500 emails and text messages.

Laura Owens (55:06)

She makes up all these characters and

Stephanie Young (55:08)

she creates fake Personas. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

Clayton Eckerd (55:13)

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. It's just chaos.

Laura Owens (55:34)

If you ever, ever, ever, ever try to leave.

Stephanie Young (55:47)

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A five star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the Lovetrapped team, email us@lovetraptpodmail.com that's lovetrappedpodmail.com Lovetrapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iheart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Federman. Written, produced and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Additional production support from Sidney Gladue and Todd Ganz. Our production manager is Kristen Melciri for iHeart podcasts. Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna McLean and Matt DelVecchio. Additional editing support by Zac Proteau. Thank you to our voice actor, Leslie Tolley. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Lev Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by Myb Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreinscheck, Ali Kanter and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person? Welcome to the Boys and Girls Podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition hoping to find love the right way. And instead I found chaos, comedy and a lot of cringe. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Clayton Eckerd (57:59)

Saturday, May 2, country's biggest stars will be in Austin, Texas at our 2026 I Heart Country Festival presented by Capital One. Tickets are on sale now. Get yours before they sell out@ticketmaster.com that's

Laura Owens (58:13)

Ticketmaster.com when segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules.

Stephanie Young (58:21)

Segregation in the day, integration at night.

Clayton Eckerd (58:24)

It was like stepping in another world.

Laura Owens (58:27)

Was he a businessman? A criminal?

Stephanie Young (58:30)

A hero?

Clayton Eckerd (58:31)

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

Laura Owens (58:35)

Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stephanie Young (58:44)

This Women's History Month the podcast Keep It Posit Sweetie celebrates the power of women, choosing healing, purpose and faith. Even when life gets messy, love is not a destination. You have to work on it every day. Keep It Positive Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self worth, love, growth and navigating life with grace and grit, led by women who uplift, inspire and tell the truth out loud.

Laura Owens (59:07)

I have several conversations with God and

Stephanie Young (59:10)

I know why it took 20 years to hear this and more. Listen to Keep It Positive sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.