If I Don’t Hear Back | EP 3

Summary

Love Trapped | Episode 3: "If I Don’t Hear Back"
Podcast by iHeartPodcasts & Glass Podcasts | Host: Stephanie Young | Release: March 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into former Bachelor star Clayton Echard’s personal “paternity nightmare” with Laura Owens. What started as a seemingly casual one-night fling rapidly devolved into a psychological and legal battle. Listeners are taken through the emotional and legal maelstrom that followed Laura's claim of pregnancy, as Clayton seeks proof, navigates manipulative communication, and faces escalating threats — all while keeping the controversy from going public.
At its heart, this episode examines themes of trust, manipulation, and the search for truth in the age of digital receipts and legal weaponization.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. The Initial Claim and Doubt

• Clayton’s surprise at Laura’s pregnancy claim given they didn’t have penetrative sex; he is initially “99.9% sure” he can’t be the father, but is plagued by a “0.1% doubt” ([06:03]).
• Laura refuses to take a paternity test or provide clear medical proof, relying on home pregnancy tests and emotional appeals ([02:56], [03:14]).

Quote:

“I was having a hard time believing it because we didn’t have sex. So I wanted her to take a test in front of me so I could see it with my own eyes.” – Clayton ([04:07])

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2. Erratic Communication and Manipulative Messaging

• Laura’s emails become increasingly bizarre and contradictory, fluctuating between pleas for a relationship and ultimatums (subject lines: “If I don’t hear back tonight,” “The final opportunity to consider abortion”) ([12:35]).
• Clayton documents every interaction, amassing a daily log of messages that becomes crucial later in the story ([12:21]).
• Laura records conversations as a form of threat, indicating possible plans to go public ([14:30]).

Quote:

“My exact thought was, either I’m dealing with the craziest woman I have ever met, or I’m dealing with someone that’s telling the truth and there’s really no in between.” – Clayton ([07:00])

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3. Attempts to Seek Proof and Laura’s Evasive Tactics

• Laura repeatedly cancels ultrasound appointments, first citing schedule conflicts, then expressing safety concerns ([09:23]–[10:07]).
• She claims to fear for her safety if Clayton attends the appointments, despite no history of threats ([10:07], [10:28]).
• Clayton pushes for transparency through options like FaceTime, but Laura resists all efforts ([09:54], [10:49]).

Quote:

“Now you’re basically stating you’re fearful for your safety... I’ve never once threatened you. Now you’re trying to say that? In a doctor’s office of all places?” – Clayton ([10:28])

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4. Legal Escalation and Psychological Toll

• Laura begins leveraging legal threats and manipulation, including a “dating contract” offering abortion if Clayton agrees to date her for a week ([26:19]).
• She sends documents with ultimatums, deadlines, and claims of legal services she allegedly paid for ([27:53], [33:27]).
• Clayton offers a counter-contract to cease communication, but Laura refuses ([29:20]).

Quote:

“It was an official document... It said that if you date me for one week, then I will have an abortion, but if you don’t date me, then I’m having a kid.” – Clayton ([26:32])

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5. Media Threats and Public Exposure

• Laura threatens Clayton’s reputation and career prospects, referencing possible damage to his chance of being on “Dancing with the Stars” ([45:46]).
• She contacts Clayton’s family, sending dozens of emails to his parents to pressure them into involvement ([46:53]–[47:19]).

Quote:

“She tried to Facebook friend me, and of course I didn’t accept... she was just trying to convince me that Clayton really is the father and she needs help raising these kids. And, yeah, it was just unbelievable.” – Kelly, Clayton’s mom ([48:10])

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6. Paternity Claims and Legal System Loopholes

• Laura files a petition to establish paternity in Arizona court, which does not require proof of pregnancy — only an affidavit ([40:35]).
• Clayton, caught off guard and fearing legal default, hires help to file a response ([34:16]).
• Laura “doubles down” and claims twins, complicating potential early paternity testing ([41:47]–[42:37]).
• Clayton discovers that reliable prenatal testing on twins is possible, but Laura resists participating ([43:08]–[43:46]).

Quote:

“So I Google it. I basically typed in, like, paternity testing for twins and boom, Ravjan pops up. And I reached out to them and they said, yeah, yeah, we test on twins.” – Clayton ([43:08])

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7. Escalation: Media Storm and Public Fallout

• As the dispute reaches a stalemate, the story finally breaks in the media, with Bachelor content creators and tabloid reporters picking it up ([49:51]–[51:28]).
• Clayton’s private battle turns public, bringing new scrutiny and pressure from the outside world ([51:19]–[51:37]).
• The episode ends with the threat of ongoing narrative warfare and the promise of more revelations.

Notable Media Quote:

“If this is true, I go, oh, please don’t let this be true. I have vouched for Clayton. He was kind of edited to be this villain I never believed him to be.” – Dave Neal, podcaster ([50:21])

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Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• Clayton’s disbelief and self-questioning about biology: [06:03]
• Laura’s invasive communication (“If I don’t hear back, I’m having the baby”): [31:08]
• The “dating contract” and Clayton’s counter offer: [26:19]–[29:20]
• Legal threats escalate to claims of emotional abuse: [33:15]
• Reaching out to Clayton’s parents, forcing family disclosure: [46:53]–[47:19]
• Media storm begins (“Claygate”): [51:19]–[51:37]

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Tonal and Narrative Style

The episode is investigative and tense, blending empathy (through Stephanie Young’s narration and interviews) with a clinical cataloguing of manipulation and psychological distress. Clayton’s voice alternates between disbelief, frustration, and exhaustion, matched by Stephanie’s tone of incredulity and chronicling. The structure is chronological, heavy on digital receipts and supported throughout by direct quotes from emails, voicemails, and interviews.

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Additional Quotes for Color

• On Laura’s shifting stories:

  “She started to basically trip over her own story. And that was a moment where I go, well, you just admitted to not ever having sex with me.” – Clayton ([25:30])

• On emotional exhaustion:

  “I can’t even imagine what Clayton was feeling being on the receiving end of this fire hose.” – Stephanie ([48:36])

• On court action without evidence:

  “You don’t have to provide medical proof of pregnancy to file a paternity claim. In Arizona, the only requirement is signing an affidavit stating that you’re pregnant.” – Stephanie ([40:35])

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Episode Structure & Flow (with Key Timestamps)

• [02:56] – Introduction to Clayton and Laura’s initial encounter & pregnancy claim.
• [04:07] – Clayton’s recollection of the night; early doubts.
• [07:41] – Researching medical explanations; suspicion of false positives.
• [09:23] – Attempts at medical confirmation; repeated appointment cancellations.
• [12:35] – Archiving Laura’s emails and escalation in tone.
• [14:30] – Threats of going public and secret recordings.
• [26:19] – Introduction of the “dating contract” and Clayton’s legal counteroffer.
• [31:08] – Use of ultimatums and deadlines for emotional leverage.
• [33:27] – Faux legal threats and “read receipt” traps.
• [34:16] – Official paternity filing in court; Clayton scrambles for legal defense.
• [41:47] – Laura’s “twins” claim and the paternity test runaround.
• [45:46] – Media threats, including possible damage to Clayton’s “Dancing with the Stars” prospects.
• [46:53] – Laura reaches out to Clayton’s parents, forcing him to come clean.
• [49:39] – Laura’s options dwindle as time passes.
• [50:21] – Media and Bachelor Nation podcasters react.
• [51:19]–[51:37] – Breaking news and transition to the next chapter.

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For further context, listeners are encouraged to browse verified documents on the podcast’s Instagram, @glasspodcasts.

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In Summary

Episode 3 of "Love Trapped" grapples with the complexity, confusion, and high-stakes anxiety of a modern paternity scandal, highlighting Clayton Echard’s attempt to navigate a web of doubt, manipulation, and escalating threats — personal, legal, and public — set against the landscape of tabloid culture and “receipts”-driven storytelling. The episode ends with the press discovering the dispute and foreshadows even deeper twists yet to come.

Transcript

[A]

Everyone needs to take care of their mental health, even running back Bijon Robinson. When I'm on the field and feeling the pressure, I usually just take a deep breath. When I'm just breathing and seeing what's

[B]

in front of me, everything just slows down. It just makes me feel great before I run the play.

[A]

Just like Bijan, we all need a strong mental game on and off the field. Make a game plan for your mental health at loveyourmindplaybook.org Love youe Mind Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health foundation, the Arthur M. Blank Family foundation, and and the AD Council. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the Thing, I talk to composer Marc Shaiman. It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. And journalist Chris Whipple. Every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House. Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

I'm Heather Dubreu.

[A]

And I'm Terry Dubrow.

[B]

And we're gonna keep this between us.

[A]

Not really. The TMZ guy walks up to me, goes, terry, what do you think about Bradley Cooper? They asked him and they said he's not had any plastic surgery. But I mean, what's the latest rumor? I'm gay, right? Isn't that the latest rumor?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

First of all, if I were gay, I would be gay.

[B]

Listen to Between Us on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow between us and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today. Hi listeners, I'm Anna Sinfield, the host of the Girlfriend Spotlight, and I've got some great interviews coming your way. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of season one, two, three, and four of the Girlfriends and every single episode of the Girlfriends Spotlight, 100% ad free and one week early through the iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus you'll get access to other chart topping true crime shows you love like Betrayal, Paper Ghosts, Piketon Massacre, the Brothers Ortiz, what Happened in Nashville, Hell and Gone, the Godmother and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today. When you think of a paternity scandal, this is probably what comes to Mind,

[A]

sir, you are not the father.

[B]

Men have a millennia old reputation for refusing parental responsibilities. It can destroy families and alter the course of lives. As Maury Povich proved, a paternity test is the ultimate dramatic reveal. It's a definitive answer, a yes or no. But what happened to Clayton Eckerd isn't that simple.

[A]

I said, okay, hey, we got to do the paternity test that's coming up. And then she's making excuses and saying like, I don't think I really need to do this. I already know you're the father. I haven't been with anybody else, so I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to waste my money. I'll just wait until the due date.

[B]

I'm Stephanie Young, and this is love trapped. There's no way out. You'd better believe I'll be raising holy hell, my love if you ever, ever, ever, ever try to leave. On May 20, 2023, Clayton invited a woman named Laura Owens over to his house. They'd been flirting over text. According to Clayton, they had oral sex that night, not penetrative sex. Then just 11 days later, Laura had news. She was pregnant. And she was sure the baby was his.

[A]

I was having a hard time believing it because we didn't have sex. So I wanted her to take a test in front of me so that I could see it with my own eyes.

[B]

Laura came over to his place to take another pregnancy test. It was positive.

[A]

I had my hand pressing against my forehead, elbows on the countertop. I'm leaning over the sink and I'm just in disbelief. And she's just like, how are you feeling? She starts rubbing my back. I'm like, is this real? And in the moment, I was like, fuck, she is pregnant.

[B]

On one hand. Clayton believed his own eyes. He believed the proof he was now seeing right in front of him.

[A]

And I'm like, I'm sorry. She's like, for what I said, for not believing you. I thought you were lying.

[B]

On the other hand, Laura had been behaving erratically since their hookup. So much so that he decided to block her phone number. But now she was in his house, positive pregnancy test in hand, and she was distraught.

[A]

We sat down on my couch and talked for probably an hour and a half, two hours. And I was reassuring her the entire time.

[B]

It was almost reflexive to comfort her and tell her it was going to be okay. But something about Laura felt off.

[A]

It felt a little bit forced, or it felt a little bit like it was a production There was an element of insincerity.

[B]

Nevertheless, he told Laura he would unblock her number and they would figure it out. After a few hours, she left. When he shut the door behind her, reality sunk back in. There was no way she could be pregnant. He replayed the night of the hookup in his memory, and his mind went to extreme places. She'd run to the bathroom right after the blowjob. What had happened behind that bathroom door? Was there some way she could have impregnated herself?

[A]

I was 99.9% sure she. She wasn't pregnant. Unfortunately for me, there was a 0.1% chance of doubt that. I was like, maybe she got it there in quick enough time when she went to the bathroom. Maybe she had a syringe on hand that I was unaware of. There's a small chance I don't believe it, but I can't fully rule it out.

[B]

Then he got an email. It was from Laura. Don't bother reading this if you don't want to have the dating conversation. Her emails are being read by a voice actor. If you don't want to try things, that's fine, but if I'm alone, either way, the abortion is off the table. I strongly believe that regardless of your feelings for me, it's unfair to the child to not be exposed to both parents. The messages were bizarre, and they kept coming. You act like it would be a punishment to date me, but I bring a lot to the table.

[A]

My exact thought was, either I'm dealing with the craziest woman I have ever met, or I'm dealing with someone that's telling the truth and there's really no in between.

[B]

Clayton's plan was to figure it out on his own before anyone online got wind of the situation. He was a public figure. This could be a huge reputational blow.

[A]

If this girl goes to the media, it's just going to be a pain in the ass because we have to wait on the paternity test, which is going to take some time. It's something that I'm going to be fighting an uphill battle on.

[B]

He started frantically googling. Maybe this was a misunderstanding. Maybe there was another explanation.

[A]

She had mentioned that she had epilepsy, and so I just had this feeling of, you need to Google epilepsy medications and see if there's any correlation between epilepsy meds and hcg, which is the pregnancy hormone. And I googled that, and sure enough, there was a correlation where certain medications could cause elevated levels of hcg. When I saw that that was the bingo. This is what's going on. Maybe she's not lying. She's just not aware that her medications are causing this. And so it's a false positive.

[B]

Clayton told me he emailed Laura to let her know this could be a possibility. And less than two hours later, Laura responded.

[A]

She said she placed a quick call to her doctor, and her doctor told her that it's extremely rare to happen at all, and if that were to happen, it would be when someone just started it.

[B]

Laura was adamant that it wasn't a false positive. She really was pregnant and it was his. She told him multiple times that she hadn't been with anyone else in over a year. At this point, Clayton is desperate for concrete answers. First, he just needed proof of pregnancy, and the easiest way to get that is with an ultrasound at the doctor's office.

[A]

We talked about doing an ultrasound so that I could get visual proof that she was, in fact, pregnant.

[B]

Laura made an appointment for an ultrasound, but right before the day came, she canceled it. Her sister couldn't make it, and Laura wanted her there.

[A]

That was the first cancellation. And then she's like, I rescheduled for this date.

[B]

I've seen these messages. Clayton was trying his best to be as flexible with the doctor's appointment as possible. If she was pregnant, this was the only way he could get the confirmation he needed. But Laura changed her mind again and said she didn't want him at the doctor's appointment.

[A]

My pushback was, okay, well, I'll FaceTime you from the doctor's office.

[B]

Then Laura threw a grenade, something that caught Clayton off guard and changed the tone of their entire conversation.

[A]

She ended up saying, hey, I'm scared for my safety. I'm going to reschedule it. I don't want you showing up and potentially harming me.

[B]

Clayton couldn't believe what she was saying, and he was offended. He was only asking for transparency and real answers. Just a few days before Laura said she wanted him to be involved.

[A]

I'm like, are you kidding me? I've never once threatened you. Now you're trying to say that like you're afraid I'm going to get physical in a doctor's office of all places. In general, I've never put my hands on a woman. But I was like, now you're basically stating you're fearful for your safety.

[B]

It was a red flag, but Clayton was committed to getting an answer from a doctor. That was the right next step.

[A]

Then it was, no, I don't want you to know. Like, when I'M going at all. So then again, it was just excuse after excuse, and it was like, I need some type of proof. And she just wouldn't oblige to anything that I said.

[B]

The harder he pushed for proof, the more volatile Laura became.

[A]

You have no idea what was going on behind the scenes. And I have all of the receipts to prove it.

[B]

The back and forth about the ultrasound was only the tip of the iceberg. After she told Clayton she was pregnant, Laura sent him a lot of mixed messages about keeping the baby. Most of them were emails, actually. This went on for four months. I decided to take a page out of Clayton's book and asked him if he could show them to me in person. A few days later, I flew to Arizona and was back at Clayton's house. I want to talk about where we left off with this story. You've kind of told me that there was a lot going on from June to, let's say, September of that year. Can you show me what you're talking about?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Look, I have it all stored here on a drive called the LO file for Laura Owens.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anytime that I've spoken with Laura is all right here.

[B]

There is a folder pretty much for every single day from June all the way through, like, the end of October. I cannot stress enough how many messages are in these folders. There are hundreds. Having the receipts is an understatement.

[A]

Some days there were 10 messages. Some days there was just one. There was probably less than five times where, like, there was a day or two where she didn't send anything. But those days were far and few in between.

[B]

The messages unsettled him so much that he started cataloging them. Here are a few subject lines from those early emails. June 25th, went to the abortion clinic. Important. June 28th, having the baby. If I don't hear back tonight, July 1st, the final opportunity to consider abortion.

[A]

The messages would come in. I would screenshot them. I would put that day's date, and then I'd put it in the folder. I put my own responses just so I could have a full track record, because I felt I need to have evidence of all of our communications, because who knows what she's going to eventually accuse me of?

[B]

How are you handling that? And how is your mental health doing at this time? Were you trying to work? How do you even go about your day? As these keep flooding in, I couldn't

[A]

help but read them because I had to extract information from them to understand where she was going with her next move. But it was tough because yeah, I'd be at work, and I couldn't help but, like, check my email every hour. It's as if someone tells you that I'm going to send you a message with test results in the next 24 hours. I'm not sure when it'll come in, but, yeah, we can all relate to that. Just waiting, looking at your. Your messages, being like, when's this coming through? And the second you hear the ding, you're like, oh, my gosh, is this it? That's how I felt all the time, because it was just like, when's this next message coming? And how serious is it going to be?

[B]

Clayton was on edge. It wasn't just about whether or not she was pregnant. He'd just gone through the hardest year of his life and felt like the media was hungry for any scandal around him. This would deliver it on a silver platter, and Laura seemed to know that. She even told Clayton that when she was at his apartment to take the pregnancy test, that she'd recorded the entire conversation.

[A]

She had her phone in her purse, and it was recording the entire time. She mentioned that to me as, like, a threat to say that she was gonna go public.

[B]

Clayton did not want any kind of press about the situation. He decided he could handle it himself. The weeks dragged into months. The whole time, Clayton felt like he was trying to quietly defuse a bomb. Were you fighting this battle alone? Like, at this point, had you told anyone in your life what was going on?

[A]

I really, truly was waking up every day dealing with this and having nobody to help me through, because I was ashamed. I saw the emotions that I elicited from my family following the whole bachelor experience, and they are the ones that I would bring it to. I took a show that was my mom's favorite and turned it into a show that she despised, a show that made her sick to her stomach. No matter how much I wanted to have support in this scenario, to me, it would have felt selfish to bring them back in.

[B]

It became clear that these emails had a strong effect on Clayton and that I'd be at his place for a week if I tried to read every email in one sitting. He was kind enough to share the file with me so I could go through each email carefully. I took the Ello file home with me to start combing through it myself. Some of these emails have never been made public before.

[A]

That's the thing with Laura is, like, it kept just getting more intense with every single email.

[B]

Later, these messages would be introduced as evidence in court. Here's Laura Owens herself during a court deposition. Reading one of the emails she sent Clayton, it occurred to me that you might believe me more about paternity. If you were inside of me and felt how tight I was after not having sex in more than a year, maybe then you'd believe I hadn't been sleeping around. Messages like this stopped me in my tracks. I didn't know what I'd gotten myself into, but I knew I had to keep going. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world. Inside Charlie's Place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

[A]

You saw the kkk.

[B]

Yeah. They was dressed up in their uniform.

[A]

The KKK set out to raid Charlie,

[B]

take him away from here.

[A]

Charlie was an example Power. They had to crush him.

[B]

From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast Between Us with me,

[A]

Heather Dubrow, and me, Terry debrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids.

[B]

It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny and a little bit scandalous.

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Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends and and the cultural moments everyone's texting about.

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Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage and everything in between. Feeling fresh and fun.

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of did they just say that? Moments.

[B]

Listen to between us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield from the Girlfriends, the number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. I'm back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriends Spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia. I'm going to climb this. And then there's Fusaka.

[A]

Let's see how we can stop killing and save lives.

[B]

Leila dared to ask the question, is badness hereditary? And finally, we'll meet Rosamund.

[A]

If it wasn't for the air where Ella lived, she wouldn't have died on that fatal night.

[B]

You'll even get to meet my mum in that one, who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground. I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about? Listen to the girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about Sorority Life, the Good, the bad and the sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent, and Jennifer Kessler. Rush, the recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now. Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood? Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actives, rush chairs and ritual keepers. Some call it the best time of their life, while others say it's a nightmare. From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals, what is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses from Alpha to Omega? We're taking you inside sorority row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When I started reading the screenshots of messages between Clayton and Laura, I was dumbfounded. After I spent weeks going through each and every message, I decided to meet Clayton again to discuss them. Like I said, some of these have never been made public before. She kept saying in these emails that she has proven time and time again that she's pregnant. She has showed you so much proof, she has sent a Dropbox link. Can you tell me what that proof actually was?

[A]

That was the thing. It's just like, I've sent you all this proof. I'm like, what proof? You've sent me a doctor's note, you sent me a pregnancy test. And I'm like, I think you're trying to convince me you've proven me. You have these hard facts, which you don't like. You keep saying you've shown all the proof, but there's nothing here. It's all just your words.

[B]

My sister called me at eight weeks pregnant to tell me she was pregnant with a photo of an ultrasound on FaceTime.

[A]

We would do. Right.

[B]

Like, I mean, it was so simple to prove it, which is concerning that she wouldn't just send you an ultrasound because you were begging for proof in these emails.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, look, like, I really did want just something. I was like, either show me something or show me nothing. Like, I'm tired of playing the games. I'm tired of playing. Like, well, I will if this. I'm like, no, no, no, no. If this. Then statements like, just do it or don't. Like, I'm. And that's where I was. Like, it really should be super simple, right? Your doctor that you just saw should be able to take a phone call with me right now. And if I'm the actual father, then it's my right to be able to have this conversation.

[B]

He's right. And he brings up another important point about if he's actually the father. We'll get to that in a minute. As far as I can see in all their messages, the proof Laura was sending him was mostly in the form of photos and a few videos of herself. Like this one, where she's standing in her bra and underwear, showing her protruded stomach to the camera. I am just trying to show you that I am pregnant. And I wanted to do this on video so that you didn't think that I was photoshopping anything in. The video is over four minutes long. She turns from side to side to show him her stomach. Here's the tour. You can see my front. You can see the line there that women get, that pregnant women get. I'm starting to get. You can see from here I have a stomach. Right? This video came in response to Clayton again asking for proof of her pregnancy. At this point, Clayton, he'd been asking for over a month. Hope you realize this is all real. The pictures and videos weren't the medical confirmation Clayton wanted, but they did make him question his own certainty.

[A]

Every time I would see a physical image, it would just, like, cycle back to, maybe there is some truth to this.

[B]

At first, Laura said she would give him any of the medical confirmation and a say in the decision making if he did something she wanted. This one is highlighted and flagged in this folder. I want you to read the highlighted part starting at the bold.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I would like to get together tomorrow night to talk and explore intimacy. It's time for you to make an effort. If that is something we are considering. Obviously, I would love to have sex in the future and feel like I am the safest person you could have sex with since I'm pregnant. But if you really think that, like you said yesterday, my goal was to date and get pregnant during this time, we can absolutely hold off on it. However, it occurred to me that you might believe me more about paternity. If you were inside of me and felt how tight I would be after not having sex in more than a year, maybe then you'd believe I hadn't been sleeping around. And again, you wouldn't be doing me any big favor. Having sex with me is a privilege and not something I have done for a long time.

[B]

There's a lot to unpack, though.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember that when that

[B]

message came through, I had a moment during this conversation with Clayton where I really couldn't believe this was my job. And this is what I was talking to the former bachelor about. It's also interesting too, where she says, it also occurred to me that if you felt how tight I was, if you were inside of me, to me, that's signifying that she's saying you hadn't been inside of me before.

[A]

That was her admitting it. Yeah, absolutely. Like she said so much, so many times, she started to basically trip over her own story. And that was a moment where I go, well, you just admitted to not ever having sex with me because you're saying, if only I felt how tight you were, meaning I haven't felt it yet.

[B]

Were you reading the whole thing? This one is pages long.

[A]

Yeah, I did read every single line. Because again, I'm now reading into the mind of somebody to try to understand where my out is. She forecasts a lot of times these were things where I was looking at every sentence being like, where is she going? And can I get ahead of it before she gets there?

[B]

But that wasn't always possible because Laura threw some curve balls.

[A]

There is a dating contract that was sent to me by Laura.

[B]

Can you. What is. Go back. What's a dating contract?

[A]

Well, it was new to me. I've never signed one before.

[B]

This was something she wanted you to sign?

[A]

Yes, yes. An official document that she wanted me to sign. It was written in a formal format and it said that if you date me for one week, then I will have an abortion, but if you don't date me, then I'm having a kid.

[B]

This dating contract has a 16 point list of demands. And while it looks like a formal legal document and attempts to use formal legal jargon, it includes highly unusual stipulations like this one read by a voice actor for a period of one week while determining the best course of action for their pregnancy. Party A and Party B will exclusively explore a relationship with intention, meaning with the goal of it turning into something long lasting and meaningful. And there is no obligation for the relationship to work out beyond the one week. However, if it is apparent that the agreement was entered into for the wrong reasons, evidenced by abuse of any kind, verbal, emotional, or physical, it is null and void.

[A]

I'm like, I can't believe I'm reading this. Is there any validity to this? Again, it's like you're seeing something for the very first time and you're in disbelief that it's actually something that you're reading.

[B]

Laura sent this dating contract after she told Clayton she was too scared of him to tell him when the ultrasound appointment was. There's no clear logic to her requests. It's chaos in the dating contract. She even offered to compensate Clayton with $100,000 if he's proven not to be the father of her twins. As I read through the emails, I realized at a certain point, Laura isn't even talking about a baby anymore. For his part, Clayton is just trying to get the messages to stop. He replied to Laura's dating contract with a contract of his own, one where he's trying to get her to cease all communication. And you said, this is what I'm willing to offer you since I want to give you grace and an opportunity to let this all go away. And you said, I really think you need to consider this document. And what's in your document is also very professional. Party A, party B. Yeah, I used her language. And basically, you have a couple of terms and stipulations on there, but all you wanted her to do was sign that. And you said that upon signature, you cease communication and that you'll keep everything confidential indefinitely. All texts, phone calls, images, emails that have been exchanged between both parties, as long as it's signed. Did she sign that? No.

[A]

No, that was her out. That was her out. I was willing to bury all of it up until that point. All of the emotional abuse, all of the manipulation, all of the time wasted. I was willing to bury it all in that moment. And I was giving her an out where I was telling her, look, you've messed up, okay? You've taken this act too far. You know, I already have enough grounds to sue you or at least, like, get you into some trouble, but yet I'm willing to drop it all and just act like it never happened. So just Sign this, please. Like, I really don't want to have to take this any further. Can we just be done?

[B]

The answer was no. Clayton didn't know it at the time, but this nightmare was only just beginning. He says one of the most uncomfortable parts was when Laura used an abortion as a bargaining chip.

[A]

It just was so frustrating because I had told her, I don't want to have a child with you. So put two and two together. It's pretty obvious what my stance on this is. Take the pills, and that's it. I just told her one time over, and then it was like, well, I'll take them. Well, I'm not going to. Well, if we do this, maybe I will. Now I have them again. I threw them away. Now I have them back. Oh, just kind of threw him away. Oh, now I have him back. And I'll say it was really, really frustrating at that point. I was already, like, just very anxious and stressed, like, I'm not playing the game with you.

[B]

He started to notice patterns in her behavior.

[A]

I mean, there's empty threats. There's also the theme of, like, no response equaling a response. That was another one that surfaced multiple times.

[B]

Like that subject line that says, if I don't hear back, I'm having the baby.

[A]

Yes, there's one right there. And that also feeds into the deadline theme, which is another thing that she would also constantly do is like, here's this date. If I don't hear back from you by then, then this will happen. And as time went on, it's like things would escalate.

[B]

He says he felt trapped. If he did respond, he would be re engaging with someone who was increasingly erratic. But if he didn't respond, then he'd be missing some fabricated deadline she'd just set. In the back of his mind was that.01% chance. That question about what Laura had been doing in the bathroom right after their hookup. The almost impossible chance that she was really pregnant with his baby or pregnant by someone else and trying to pin it on him. Something we haven't talked about yet is the constant legal threats, ultimatums, and handcrafted legal documents Laura was sending him. The documents look official, but they're not. To double down on this, she sent Clayton a PDF of an attorney's fee agreement she'd paid. She added, quote, money truly isn't an object for me. That scared Clayton because for him, money didn't grow on trees. And the legal threats kept coming. She even alleged consulting a business owner lawyer for what happened with Clayton and the investment Properties he showed her. Her email started coming with threats of police action or legal action. In one email, she demands Clayton respond within the hour to avoid her filing a police report against him. Then she claims she's going to go to the police to report him for domestic violence. I need to say Clayton vehemently denies that he was ever physically abusive. In fact, he says he hadn't seen her in person since she came to his place to take the pregnancy test. I asked him about this threat directly. I want to know more about this threat to report you for domestic violence. You weren't seeing her in person, so where did this even come from?

[A]

I believe she was claiming it was emotional abuse. She obviously knew I never put my hands on her. So she was like, yeah, I'm going to file this. It's like, there's no way. For what? There's really nothing I've done.

[B]

There's even a legal waiver at the bottom of an email stating if after proof of opening is obtained, I choose not to respond to this email. I am confirming that its content is true. This includes my acknowledgment of paternity. How would she have proof of the email being opened?

[A]

She put mail trackers with read receipts on all of her emails. I didn't know that until later on, and I'm like, damn it. She has a read receipt on. That's why.

[B]

Then on August 1st, after almost two months of back and forth, Laura went all in. She filed a petition to establish paternity in the Maricopa County Superior Court. That filing made their dispute a matter of the public record. This was the very thing Clayton had been trying desperately to avoid. He felt like the bomb was about to detonate in his hands.

[A]

At that point, I was like, damn it. How do I respond? I don't know. I don't know how to go to court and respond to this. So I ended up calling a family law company that I Googled, and I said, look, I just need you to, like, help me file this on my behalf. So I paid, like, $500 for an hour, and they gave me the response. And then I carried that to the courthouse and submitted it.

[B]

Clayton submitted his response to her petition to establish paternity a few weeks later, stating Laura was making up the entire claim.

[A]

I decided in that moment to just go with it. And I figured, hey, like, show me the evidence. Why can't you show me that you're pregnant?

[B]

It still felt like a gamble, but Clayton decided to take the chance and say on the record that he believed Laura was fabricating the pregnancy.

[A]

I said, hey, I'm gonna put all my chips on black, and if I am right, then great. If I'm wrong, then I will actively destroy my own reputation.

[B]

After months, he hadn't seen any medical proof. He was done giving her any benefit of the doubt, and he adopted a new tactic.

[A]

I was just now trying to play her game better than she was playing it.

[B]

That turned out to be a grave miscalculation because Laura was always one step ahead.

[A]

She said something along the lines of, hey, just so you know, the twin gene runs in my family.

[B]

Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

[A]

You saw the kkk.

[B]

Yeah. They were dressed up in their uniform.

[A]

The KKK set out to raid Charlie,

[B]

take him away from here.

[A]

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[B]

From Atlas Ab Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together, four kids, and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast, Between Us with me,

[A]

Heather Dubrow, and me, Terry debrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids.

[B]

It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous.

[A]

Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting.

[B]

And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on Tick Tock.

[A]

Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun.

[B]

We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here and plenty

[A]

of did they just say that? Moments.

[B]

Listen to between us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield, from the Girlfriends, the number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. I'm Back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriend's Spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia. I'm going to climb this. And then there's fa.

[A]

Let's see how we can stop killing and save lives.

[B]

Leila dared to ask the question, is badness hereditary? And finally, we'll meet Rosamund.

[A]

If it wasn't for the air where Ella lived, she wouldn't have died on that fatal night.

[B]

You'll even get to meet my mum in that one, who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground. I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about? Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about sorority Life, the Good, the bad and the sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent and Jennifer Kessler. Rush. The recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now. Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood? Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actives, rush chairs and ritual keepers, some call it the best time of their life, while others say it's a nightmare. From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals, what is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses from Alpha to Omega? We're taking you inside sorority row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. After two months of back and forth with Laura Owens, Clayton opened the door to a police officer. He'd been served. It was a paternity claim filed by Laura. But at this point, Clayton hadn't seen any medical proof of the pregnancy. He was done humoring her.

[A]

She successfully served me the papers. I end up like talking to somebody close to me and said, well, I'm just going to throw them away. They said, you can't do that. They said, like, if you throw these papers away, the judge will submit a default judgment and they'll likely assume it's truthful. So I was like, really? So I google it and sure enough, it's like, yeah, if you don't show up, they're going to basically assume you're the guilty party and they'll rule in favor of the one that Served the papers.

[B]

I decided to reach out to family law attorneys in Arizona to understand the legal process for establishing paternity there. They told me, and I was surprised by this. You don't have to provide medical proof of a pregnancy to file a paternity claim. In Arizona, the only requirement is signing an affidavit stating that you're pregnant. Paternity is then proved either by agreement of the parties or by DNA confirmation. But in the legal system, it is generally the burden of the father to take the lead and establish paternity so that rights can be confirmed. Some men will file that action during a pregnancy, but it usually happens after birth. In this case, Laura signed the affidavit asserting she was pregnant. She began taking measures to legally establish the pregnancy and the baby's father while she was still in the first trimester. It's usually never done that way. Before this point, Clayton had been more concerned about finding out if she was really pregnant. But now he was legally and financially implicated in a paternity claim. So that brought up a new question. If she was pregnant, was he the father? Then Laura doubled down, literally.

[A]

She said something along the lines of, she has the twin gene in her family. So I knew again, she always would prep something. She warms you up to the idea of it. So she warmed me up to the idea of the twins, where she said, hey, just so you know, the twin gene runs in my family.

[B]

Clayton had a hunch about what Laura was going to say next. Within a few weeks, she followed through and told him she was not only pregnant, she was pregnant with twins.

[A]

I think part of it was to overwhelm, right, like, to scare a man into being like, oh, hey, by the way, it's not just one, it's two. That's double the responsibility. But that wasn't the fear for me. I'm like, the whole fear behind this is, first off, I don't believe you. But if by chance, you actually got pregnant, I'm not afraid of how many kids. I'm afraid of you.

[B]

Clayton wanted to take the paternity test right away so he could prove that he wasn't the father.

[A]

So as she states, there's twins, she's like, there's not a testing facility that will test on twins. I've looked, and they won't do it because there's potential for the children to have separate fathers. I'm like, you can't be serious.

[B]

It's true that a lot of prenatal paternity testing companies won't test when there's twins. There's a remote possibility of two fathers. By this point, Clayton found it difficult to believe anything Laura said, and he wasn't about to just take her word for it.

[A]

So I Google it. I basically typed in, like, paternity testing for twins and boom, Ravjan pops up. And I reached out to them and they said, yeah, yeah, we test on twins. And I said, what about the chance if there's like two separate fathers? They go, yeah, that hardly ever happens. They're like. And we can basically compare the DNA that we get and it's really easy to match it to yours, if it is yours.

[B]

Indeed. So Clayton messaged Laura to tell her

[A]

the good news and she sends back like, that's incredible. That's awesome. I would love to schedule it.

[B]

You might be able to guess what happens next.

[A]

And then she goes, you know, I don't think I really need to do this. I already know you're the first father. I haven't been with anybody else, so I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to waste my money.

[B]

I've seen these email exchanges about the paternity test. Clayton offers to pay for the whole thing himself. Then the emails get messy. It's a constant back and forth about who was scheduling or canceling the appointments with Ravjet. Eventually, they both took the test, but we'll dive into those details later. The whole time, Laura was still sending Clayton a barrage of messages. As I searched through the messages from August, I discovered an alarming pattern. Between August 12 and August 16, Laura contacted Clayton via text, using 12 different phone numbers, generating a new one each time he blocked her. And whenever Laura was blocked via text, she would start sending emails like this one, where she brought up something. Clayton really wants to go on Dancing with the Stars. He takes hip hop dance classes and told Laura about his passion for dance in their early text messages, which is what makes this email from Laura stand out. It's read by a voice actor, my dad's old entertainment agent lawyer, who I've known since I was little and who still has big clients, came to town on Friday from New York City to see him one last time without my permission. My dad told him that I was pregnant and that you were the father of the kid. Apparently, they called to do some checking on you and said they found out there were rumors about you possibly being on Dancing with the Stars, which I didn't know about, but I'm guessing you did. My dad's agent lawyer told me that even if I didn't say anything to the press that ABC would find out about the paternity papers being found filed with the court as part of their due diligence. Since their filing is public record and given the circumstances, it would almost certainly ruin your chance of being on the show. Okay, so let's talk about this. I know one of your dreams is to go on Dancing with the Stars. Were you actually in talks to go on the show?

[A]

Not even close. When that came through, that email, I remember just laughing and being like, okay, now you're just making stuff up.

[B]

Laura followed up with a copy of a letter she planned to send to the Dancing with the Stars PR team. She told Clayton, you need to devote time getting ready to have twins instead of focusing on a dance show.

[A]

Ultimately, I remember thinking, I haven't heard anything from abc, but if this were to be true, I would at least think they'd reach out to get my side of the story.

[B]

At that time, Clayton didn't want any media outlet reaching out to him to ask about Laura Owens. He just wanted her to go away. And the good news was the story hadn't hit the press yet. Even though Laura had filed for paternity and named Clayton as the father, it was a relief because he was trying to spare his family from another public embarrassment. But the people he was most worried would find out his mom and dad had started getting strange emails of their own. They were from someone named Laura Owens.

[A]

She probably emailed me 15 or 20 times.

[B]

That's Clayton's dad, Brian.

[A]

I'm like, this is strange.

[B]

Clayton wanted to handle this situation on his own. But by finding his parents emails online and contacting them directly, Laura forced his hand.

[A]

After I had been holding off on telling my parents, I had no choice but then to bring it to light.

[B]

At first, Clayton's parents were alarmed by the emails.

[A]

My parents early on weren't certain if it was true or not as well. Right. So they start then talking to me about like, well, if this is real, then you need to be a man and step up and take accountability for your actions.

[B]

Clayton explained to them what was really going on. He didn't believe Laura could possibly be pregnant with his babies. Then Laura reached out to his mom, Kelly. She tried to Facebook friend me, and of course I didn't accept, but you know how you can message. And it was almost identical to what she had emailed. And she was just trying to convince me that Clayton really is the father and she needs help raising these kids. And, yeah, it was just unbelievable. His parents never responded to Laura's messages,

[A]

all the times she was trying to influence us, to make us get involved with him and tell him what to do and, like he's a grown man, can do whatever the hell he wants.

[B]

They knew their son was an honest person.

[A]

I've never doubted him because he's always told the truth. My thought was, I believe you, and I believe everything he says.

[B]

He's always been very honest and very transparent, so I didn't doubt my son. When I talked to his mom, Kelly, she told me something that still sticks with me. When she first heard about Laura and the pregnancy, she felt a rush of joy, even though it wasn't ideal circumstances. This would be her first grandchild. Her first thought was that she and her husband would relocate to Arizona to help take care of the baby. I've spent hours reading through the hundreds of emails from Laura to Clayton. They're contradictory, they're chaotic. Sometimes they're scary. But most striking of all, they're not really about the babies. I didn't even live through it, and I felt emotionally and physically exhausted just reading them. I can't even imagine what Clayton was feeling being on the receiving end of this fire hose. The truth was, Laura couldn't keep avoiding the paternity test forever, and by mid September, she was running out of options. At this point, she'd be almost four months along.

[A]

Of course, she knows that her game is basically coming to an end because she can't prove that I'm the father, because I'm not. She realizes at this point she's losing the battle again.

[B]

He was wrong, because he wasn't accounting for the narrative war that was about to start when the story finally hit the news.

[A]

I literally find out about these things the second they get published. When you cover this, you know you have thousands of people that are tuning in for news of Bachelor or pop culture. So if there's a big story, it's in my inbox.

[B]

That's Dave Neal. He's a comedian who hosts a daily podcast about pop culture and the Bachelor. When Dave got the tip about this

[A]

story, initially, I'm bummed out. If this is true, I go, oh, please don't let this be true. I have vouched for Clayton. He was kind of edited to be this villain I never believed him to be.

[B]

Dave was about to become a major player in this twisted tale.

[A]

I didn't want it to be true, but I went into it going, I have to take these claims seriously for the sake of my audience.

[B]

Dave was part of a whole ecosystem of Bachelor content creators, people he's known for years like reality Steve.

[A]

Immediately, Dave Neal and I contacted each other and we were like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.

[B]

It turns out they weren't the only ones in the press who'd been alerted about a paternity case against Clayton Eckert. On September 18, 2023, what had been a private crisis suddenly became a public disaster. And we begin tonight with the paternity case involving a former Bachelor contestant.

[A]

Following the Clayton Eckerd Claygate paternity scandal,

[B]

Eckard, the star of season 26 of the Bachelor, shared intimate moments with Laura Owens.

[A]

The subject of the email, as seen by the US sun, is as follows. Threats, intimidation, verbal abuse, endangerment and extortion

[B]

from Clayton Eckert says the two did not have sex sexual intercourse.

[A]

We're going to pick up with this story right now.

[B]

Coming up on the next episode, Clayton is determined to get answers.

[A]

So I was just scrolling through my Instagram DMS and all of a sudden I see this message from a woman named Ashley that said, hey, you need to look into this court case. You're not the only.

[B]

I'll be raising all my.

[A]

Way out.

[B]

If you ever, ever, ever. To read verified copies of some of the emails mentioned in this episode, go to our Instagram glasspodcasts. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A five star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the Love Trapped team, email [e-mail] that's lovetraptodmail.com Lovetrapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iheart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Federman. Written, produced and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Additional production support from Sydney Gladue and Todd Ganz. Our production manager is Kristen Melciri for iHeart podcasts. Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna McLean and Matt Del Vecchio. Additional editing support by Zac Proteau. Thank you to our voice actor, Leslie Tolley. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Leb Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by My Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreincheck, Ali Kanter, and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Take the scenic route in Abercrombie's new spring collection, designed for weekend getaways full of layers like sweaters, dresses, and matching sets that take you from happy hour straight to a weekend upstate. The piece on everyone's radar is their new reversible trench coat. It's navy on one side and a coastal plaid on the other. The perfect spring staple. Get your closet ready for spring plans. Shop Abercrombie in the app online and in stores.

[A]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the thing, I talked to composer Mark Shaiman. It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. And journalist Chris Whipple, every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House. Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, son, time to put out this campfire.

[B]

Dad, we learned about this in school. Oh, did you now? Okay, what's first? Smokey Bear said to first drown it

[A]

with a bucket of water, then stir it with a shovel.

[B]

Wow, you sound just like him.

[A]

Then he said, if it's still warm, then do it again.

[B]

Where can I learn all this?

[A]

It's all on smokeybear.com with other wildfire prevention tips, because only you can prevent wildfires brought to you by the USDA

[B]

Forest Service, your state forester, and the Ad Council. Almost 30 years together, four kids, and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We're taking you behind the scenes in our podcast between us, with me, Heather

[A]

Dubrow, and me, Terry Dubrow.

[B]

The unfiltered behind closed stores conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on and plenty

[A]

of did they just say that? Moments. But, I mean, what's the latest rumor? I'm gay, right? First of all, if I were gay, I would be gay.

[B]

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search between us and listen now.