The Eleventh Hour | EP 13

Summary

Love Trapped – "The Eleventh Hour" (EP 13)

Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Stephanie Young, iHeartPodcasts & Glass Podcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode returns to the heart of the "Love Trapped" story: the high-stakes criminal proceedings against Laura Owens, the woman at the center of the Bachelor paternity scandal involving Clayton Echerd. With court dates looming, plea deals on the table, and mounting frustrations on all sides, host Stephanie Young provides a front-line view of the May 20th complex case management hearing in Arizona. Key participants — including Clayton, his attorney, journalists, and even Laura's legal team — weigh in on the strategies, possibilities, and emotional toll of the ongoing saga.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Courtroom Drama: The May 20th Hearing

[02:26 – 11:19]

• Stephanie recounts returning to the Maricopa County Superior Courthouse as the case against Laura Owens moves forward.
• Notable Encounter: In the hallway, Clayton's attorney Greg Woodnick faces an unexpected and uncomfortable interaction with Laura Owens’ mother, Jan Black.
  • Quote:

    "[Jan] doubled back, walked closer, and then stopped right in front of Woodnick." – Stephanie Young [03:36]
    "Jan said something to the extent of, do I need to talk to you?... a little confrontational and a little bit uncomfortable." – Greg Woodnick [03:44]

• The courtroom atmosphere is tense, reminding listeners that this is still a criminal case with real potential consequences.

2. Legal Limbo & Plea Deal Back-and-Forth

[05:44 – 10:54]

• County Attorney Rachel Mitchell’s appearance on local radio causes a wave of speculation after she hints the case is heading to trial, only for news coverage to backtrack and admit plea negotiations could continue.
  • Quote:

    “Attorney Mitchell believed Laura's case was going to trial without a plea. I wish it turned out to be that simple, but with Laura Owens, it never is.” – Stephanie Young [07:21]

• The plea deadline is extended to June 26, with a court appearance set for June 29. Frustrations mount as the case appears in limbo.
  • Quote:

    “What's the point of a deadline if it's not actually enforced? It’s just agitating.” – Clayton Echerd [08:35]

• Upcoming Dates:
  • Plea deal expiration: June 26
  • Next hearing: June 29 (status)
  • Final trial management conference: July 22
  • Trial assignment: July 29
  • Judge’s warning:

    “If you fail to appear, warrants can issue for your ass.” [11:00]

3. Laura’s Legal Defense & Strategy

[14:55 – 19:42]

• Laura Owen's third attorney, Christian Lueders, is now at the helm. Despite her and her family’s bankruptcy filings, Laura has secured experienced private counsel, raising questions about her resources.
• Lueders remains tight-lipped, but investigative journalist Kristin Thorne shares his communications:
  • Defense is simultaneously preparing for dismissal, plea, and trial
  • Focus includes reviewing evidence for possible technical/procedural errors that could dismiss charges
  • Quote:

    “All options are on the table. As a criminal defense attorney, my job is to prepare each case for three possible outcomes: dismissal, case resolution by agreement (plea), or trial... preparing for all of these simultaneously.” – Statement via Kristin Thorne [17:09]

• There's acknowledgment that full dismissal is rare; a resolution by agreement (plea) is likelier as few cases actually reach trial.

4. Perspectives on Accountability and Sentencing

[20:04 – 23:48]

• What would Woodnick do if he were Laura’s attorney? Present mitigating factors to the judge, potentially through psychological assessment.
  • Quote:

    “The elephant in the room is...anyone who's listened to your podcast and knows this saga should be incredulous of any data that's presented by Laura. She has a pretty good history of doctoring and augmenting information...” – Greg Woodnick [21:16]

• Still, Woodnick is clear that ultimate responsibility for proving guilt lies with the state — Laura’s silence or lack of remorse is her legal right.

5. Victim Frustration & Systemic Delays

[23:03 – 24:40]

• Listeners (and the host) express confusion and irritation at repeated delays; Woodnick assures them the timeline is typical for such complex cases.
  • Quote:

    “I think people are frustrated with the delay. I will tell you, there's nothing here that's out of the ordinary.” – Greg Woodnick [23:18]

• Clayton, echoing many victims, admits he struggles to trust the system to deliver justice.
  • Quote:

    “I honestly don't have trust. I wish I did in the court system... I felt like this case should have been over years ago.” – Clayton Echerd [24:14]

6. Victim Advocacy: Clayton’s Open Letter

[25:31 – 31:04]

• Clayton writes a heartfelt letter to the prosecutor, urging a harsher sentence and warning of ongoing risk.
• Letter Highlights:
  • He fears Laura will use psychology as a shield.
  • He wants internet restrictions as part of her sentence.
  • He details emotional harm and public defamation suffered.
  • Quote:

    “She is dangerous and will continue to use the Internet to perpetuate her crimes... This woman is incredibly smart, manipulative, and a danger to society.” – Clayton Echerd (letter read aloud) [28:18, 29:24]
    “I'm not embarrassed to share that I had suicidal ideation from this entire experience. And if it were up to Laura, I truly think she would have me dead.” [30:05]

• Clayton publishes his letter publicly for accountability.
• The prosecutor’s office responds quickly, surprising Clayton by inviting him for a face-to-face meeting.

7. Clarifying Jail vs. Prison & What Plea Would Mean

[35:20 – 37:59]

• Many, including Clayton, misunderstand the difference between jail (short-term, usually local, sometimes with work release) and prison (longer-term, state-run, with more programs).
• Quote:

  “Prison has vocational programs, counseling programs, social dynamic. Jail... is for shorter term sentences.” – Greg Woodnick [35:20]

• Probation with jail time is possible, and sentencing hearings would allow victims to address the court directly.

8. Will Laura Take a Plea or Go to Trial?

[38:56 – 43:23]

• Laura is legally viewed as a first-time, nonviolent offender, making significant prison time less likely, but the case’s uniqueness keeps everyone guessing.
• Clayton insists he’ll be in court to show the seriousness of his losses.
  • Quote:

    “I want to show up, even if it's a five minute status conference, and just be like, hey, I'm here because I've been severely impacted and I want this woman locked away.” – Clayton Echerd [39:38]

• Both Woodnick and Clayton offer predictions:
  • Woodnick thinks a plea is likely:

    “I think the case is about to come to a head. Either we're going to know trial is supposed to start soon, or she's going to enter a plea... Certainly, if I were her defense counsel, I would be encouraging it.” [40:33]

  • Clayton doubts it, fearing Laura still believes she can win at trial and that a plea would endanger her other legal battles:

    “I think she really believes that she still has an out.” [40:59]

9. Colliding Legal Timelines

[41:37 – 43:51]

• June 29 is a pivotal day not just for Laura’s criminal case in Arizona, but also for a related domestic violence restraining order (DVRO) appeal involving Mike Maracini in California.
• It’s speculated Laura may avoid a plea to preserve her DVRO case, as a guilty plea could undermine her credibility there.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "What's the point of a deadline if it's not actually enforced? It's just agitating." – Clayton Echerd [08:35]
• "The elephant in the room is...anyone who's listened to your podcast and knows this saga should be incredulous of any data that's presented by Laura." – Greg Woodnick [21:16]
• "I honestly don't have trust. I wish I did in the court system..." – Clayton Echerd [24:14]
• "I want to show up, even if it's a five minute status conference, and just be like, hey, I'm here because I've been severely impacted and I want this woman locked away." – Clayton Echerd [39:38]
• "I think she's going to go to trial. It seems like Laura's criminal case might finally be coming to a head." – Stephanie Young [43:23]

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Crucial Timestamps

• [02:26] – Stephanie enters the courthouse, describes the atmosphere
• [03:36] – Tense encounter between Jan Black and Greg Woodnick
• [06:09 – 07:21] – County Attorney Rachel Mitchell’s radio interview, initial signals of trial
• [08:11] – Clayton reacts to shifting plea/trial headlines
• [10:20] – Extension of plea deal deadline announced in court
• [17:09] – Kristin Thorne shares Laura's defense attorney's strategy
• [21:16] – Woodnick raises skepticism about psychological reports from Laura
• [24:14] – Clayton voices distrust in the criminal justice system
• [28:18] – Heartbreaking moments from Clayton’s victim impact letter
• [35:20] – Woodnick explains jail versus prison to clarify sentencing options
• [39:38] – Clayton on the emotional weight of showing up in court
• [41:37] – Host foreshadows the legal collision on June 29: criminal plea versus DVRO appeal

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Closing Thoughts

The episode portrays the tangible strain of high-profile legal limbo — for the accused, the victims, and the bystanders alike. As legal deadlines approach and decisions intensify, the podcast sets the stage for a dramatic, possibly historic resolution while leaving key questions painfully unresolved. The widespread attention, empowered victims, and relentless citizen sleuths all underscore what’s at stake: not only justice in this case, but the credibility of the entire system to hold manipulators accountable.

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Next episode preview: While this episode brings listeners nearly to the finish line, Stephanie teases additional surprises and developments in the case still to come in the next and final episode.

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Transcript

[Stephanie Young]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human what's up, y'?

[Podcast Listener/Caller]

All?

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[Stephanie Young]

a couple weeks after our last episode aired, I found myself back In Phoenix, Arizona, at the Maricopa County Superior Courthouse, Laura Owens was due back in court on May 20 for another hearing about the status of her criminal case. I'd been to this courthouse once before for Laura's pretrial hearing last August, but this time felt different. This podcast was out and millions of people were following along. As I made my way into the courthouse, I ran into a familiar face. Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnick. He made time in his schedule to come to this hearing in person, just in case something important happened.

[Greg Woodnick]

Victims are welcome in court, and Clayton was unavailable to go, and I was available. So I went to put my eyes on the situation.

[Stephanie Young]

Woodnick represented both Clayton Eckerd and another victim in Laura's criminal case, Greg Gillespie. We were standing together in the hallway waiting for the hearing to get started when the elevator doors opened. Out walked Laura Owens and her mother, Jan Black.

[Greg Woodnick]

Jan and Laura came out of the elevator and walked past me.

[Stephanie Young]

When Jan saw us, she doubled back, walked closer, and then stopped right in front of Woodnick.

[Greg Woodnick]

Jan said something to the extent of, do I need to talk to you? And I kind of looked at her quizzically because I wasn't there to talk to her candidly, had caught me off guard that she'd walk, like, right into my kind of zone.

[Stephanie Young]

I was standing right there watching this awkward interaction play out, wondering if Jan was going to say something to me next. But she kept her focus on Woodnick.

[Greg Woodnick]

And then I didn't even say anything. And then I think she immediately said, why are you staring at me? I was kind of a little dumbfounded. I was not staring at her. I was just in the courthouse waiting to go into the courtroom with other people. It was a little confrontational and a little bit uncomfortable.

[Stephanie Young]

I haven't heard from Laura since the last episode of the podcast aired. Later, Woodnick told me that was his first time interacting with Jan in person.

[Greg Woodnick]

I think the only time I've ever seen her in three dimension was June of 2024 at the trial with Judge Motta.

[Stephanie Young]

We watched as Laura and her mom walked into the courtroom. A few minutes later, we took our seats. The judge had a couple other cases to get through. First, the two defendants before Laura were brought out in striped prison jumpsuits. It was a vivid reminder of what we're dealing with here. This is a criminal case, and Laura's hearing was about to begin.

[Judge]

This is CR2025 007905. State versus Laura Owens. Time set for a complex case management conference.

[Stephanie Young]

I'm Stephanie Young. And this is love trapped.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a quote or interjection)]

There's no way out. You better believe I'll be raising holy hell, my love, if you ever, ever, ever, ever twice believe.

[Stephanie Young]

The day after our last episode went live, my phone started blowing up. Maricopa County Attorney Rachel Mitchell, the one who charged Laura criminally, had made an appearance on a local Phoenix radio station. They asked her about our podcast.

[Radio Host]

This is like a big podcast. A lot of people are talking about this. It's a Scottsdale woman. It's the celebrity aspect. Pregnancy case. Did she try and do this again?

[Rachel Mitchell]

Well, there have been different allegations made against her, some of them, and I have to be careful because, you know, obviously this is ongoing, but some of them occurred in a different state. And I think a lot of people are wanting it all wrapped up here. And obviously, I only have jurisdiction over what happened in Maricopa County Fair. But, yeah, there are some allegations that other things happened as well, that this

[Radio Host]

is serial behavior on her part.

[Stephanie Young]

This is one of the first times anyone has heard Rachel Mitchell comment on Laura's case outside of a press conference. The radio host took the opportunity to ask Rachel Mitchell a big question. The same one we wondered at the end of our podcast. Laura's first plea deal just expired. What happens next?

[Radio Host]

So she reportedly didn't respond to a plea deal by a recent deadline, is that right?

[Rachel Mitchell]

I believe that's correct.

[Stephanie Young]

If you watch the video of the interview, there's a telling moment right here when you can see Attorney Mitchell look off camera, checking with someone else in the room.

[Rachel Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Radio Host]

Yeah. Can you say what she was offered?

[Rachel Mitchell]

I don't think that would be appropriate for me to discuss the plea offer.

[Radio Host]

Do you think the case will go to trial?

[Rachel Mitchell]

Yeah, that's the next step.

[Stephanie Young]

Trial was the next step. Dozens of people sent me this video because it looked like we finally had our answer, the answer we'd been chasing for weeks. Attorney Mitchell believed Laura's case was going to trial without a plea. I wish it turned out to be that simple, but with Laura Owens, it never is. A lot has happened over the last month and a half. So let me catch you up. After Attorney Mitchell made that radio appearance, the station posted a digital article with the headline, laura Owens Bachelor Fraud Case Going to Trial. The news spread like wildfire. I saw screenshots on Reddit, social media, and in my DMs. Naturally, my first call was to Clayton Eckerd to see how he was feeling about the news.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I thought at first that that was a good thing because I figured if she missed a deadline, she'd be penalized for it. My initial thought was, good, like, she's now about to get hit with something worse.

[Stephanie Young]

Before I could even hang up with Clayton, a brand new headline replaced the last one. This latest headline suggested that plea negotiations were still on the table. Basically, they backtracked.

[Clayton Eckerd]

It's really frustrating. At some point, you have to look at the individual and realize like, this is just a tactic. She doesn't need any more time. Any time extension is just her playing a game. What's the point of a deadline if it's not actually enforced? It's just agitating.

[Stephanie Young]

Honestly, no one knew what the hell was going on. Was there a new plea being offered? Was she taking that plea? We were in the dark. And it would stay that way until May 20th at Laura's complex case management hearing. This is the hearing that brought me back to Arizona. Before it got started, I watched Woodnick and Jan have that awkward encounter in the hallway.

[Judge]

This is CR2025 007905. State vs Laura Owens. Time set for a complex case management conference. Can I get appearances, please?

[Prosecutor or Court Official (possibly Ed Leiter or Aaron Petticone)]

Aaron Petticone for Ed Leiter for the State Victims Council is also present, as is a victim advocate.

[Judge]

All right, thank you.

[Stephanie Young]

A complex case management hearing is kind of a routine check in to make sure the case is progressing appropriately.

[Clayton Eckerd]

Good morning, Judge. Christian leaders on behalf of Laura Owens, who is present out of custody with me at the podium.

[Stephanie Young]

Laura was being represented by Christian Lueders. It's her third attorney on this case. The judge asked both sides if there was anything they wanted to discuss, and the state jumped in. This is where we finally got an answer about if the plea deal had been extended.

[Prosecutor or Court Official (possibly Ed Leiter or Aaron Petticone)]

I did have a discussion with defense counsel about extending the plea deadline, considering that he is relatively new to the case and there have been some relatively minor issues transmitting discovery. The current Expiration date is June 26.

[Stephanie Young]

The state extended the deadline. The plea deal now expires Friday, June 26th. And the next time Laura will be in front of the judge will be Monday, June 29th. Laura's new attorney, Christian Lueders, said they'd be ready for that date.

[Clayton Eckerd]

We will have everything, I think, done and decided one way or another about the plea prior to the 26th. So I'll have a conversation with Mr.

[Greg Woodnick]

Leiter and we'll straighten this out.

[Judge]

All right. If there's any kind of problem and there's no flexibility, let me know and we'll work out something for you. We'll do. Thank you, judge. Okay, so Ms. Owens need to be back in my courtroom June 29th at 8:45.

[Stephanie Young]

If Laura doesn't take the plea deal, her case is scheduled for trial. The dates are already set.

[Judge]

Then after that you have that final trial management conference July 22nd at 8:45. Then trial assignment July 29th which is at 9:00'. Clock. That's before the trial assignment judge. Fifth floor of this building, courtroom 5B. If you fail to appear, warrants can issue for your ass. If you don't show up for trial could occur in your absence. Stay in touch with your lawyer. See you on the 29th.

[Stephanie Young]

The hearing was over in about four minutes. The second it wrapped, Laura and her mother made a swift exit. And if I'm being honest, I was still trying to process exactly what had just happened. So I caught up with Woodnick after the hearing.

[Greg Woodnick]

Laura has an excellent lawyer. I'm quite confident that they're up to something. Trying to work on a resolution that ends this.

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[Stephanie Young]

One of my biggest takeaways from Laura's hearing on May 20 was that her new attorney seems to have this under control. He came in with a calm command of the case and it looks like Laura's listening to him. Like we said earlier, this is her third attorney in this matter. She started with private counsel but then was assigned a public defender. After Laura was offered a plea deal, she replaced the public defender with with a new private attorney, Christian Lueders. No one knows how she's affording him considering that she and her parents have recently declared bankruptcy. We'll get to that later, but according

[Greg Woodnick]

to Woodnick, Laura has an excellent lawyer. Christian Lueders is a good lawyer by all accounts. I think he was doing his job and his job is to both prepare for a trial and also try to find a resolution that allows Laura to move on with her life. It I'm assuming there's active discussions to resolve the case.

[Stephanie Young]

Laura's side has been very tight lipped about their legal strategy. In May 2026, I reached out to Laura's criminal defense attorney, Christian Lueders. I requested a statement on the status of her case and whether she plans to accept the state's plea deal. I gave him a week to respond. I never heard back, but There is one person who did get a response from him. Investigative journalist Kristin Thorne. A few months ago, she was working on a piece for Us Weekly about Clayton and Laura when she reached out to Mr. Lueders. At the time, he'd just started on Laura's case. So I called Kristen to get the details.

[Kristin Thorne]

I actually ended up delaying my story by two weeks because he said, I really need more time. I just came on, and I respect that. I want to give him an opportunity to respond, and from a legal perspective, that's important as well. So he asked, how much time can you give me? And I was willing to wait two weeks. And so then I gave him a deadline, and he met the deadline, and we were able to get it in the story.

[Stephanie Young]

Kristin told me she asked Mr. Lueders if Laura planned to take the plea deal. Of course, he couldn't share that information, but Kristin's the only journalist I know of who's received any insight into Laura's legal strategy. So I asked her to walk us through what he said.

[Kristin Thorne]

So this is what he responded, and it is quite lengthy. So I'm going to sum it up just a little bit. The short answer. He says all options are on the table. As a criminal defense attorney, my job is to prepare each case for three possible outcomes. Dismissal, case resolution by agreement, meaning plea or trial. And he says, I'm preparing for all of these simultaneously. He says we're starting by reviewing all available evidence and the case record for anything. Now this is where it starts to get interesting. He says they're looking for anything that may allow us to dismiss one or more of the charges. Such as, he says, major gaps in the investigation, insufficient evidence, procedural errors, or violations of constitutional rights.

[Stephanie Young]

To translate, he's referring to technicalities that can sometimes blow up criminal cases, like not reading someone's Miranda rights or seizing evidence without a search warrant.

[Kristin Thorne]

He said complete dismissal is rare, meaning he knows she's not going to be able to dismiss all these charges, but you know, they are going to look at as much as they can. And he says, at the same time, I'm preparing for trial. If the case isn't resolved by dismissal or agreement, then a jury trial is what will happen. With that in mind, I'm reviewing all of this.

[Stephanie Young]

Her attorney's response is measured. He sounds like he's weighing all the options and preparing for any outcome. And then he said this, which I think is an interesting peek behind the curtain.

[Kristin Thorne]

A lot of people don't know this, but there is a lot of cooperation between defense attorneys. And prosecutors. And really that's for judicial efficiency. Right. We don't want to bog down the court system.

[Stephanie Young]

If you remember from our last episode, only 2% of cases go to trial in Maricopa County. Trials are expensive. And Mr. Lueders is correct in saying that behind the scenes, prosecutors work closely with defense attorneys to strike a plea deal.

[Kristin Thorne]

He says, the prosecutor and I can't negotiate a plea agreement effectively until we're both in relative, and he put relative in brackets, agreement as to what the trial will look like and what the likely result will be. So they're both going to have to kind of do their research and then they're going to come back together. Then he says this, which is also very, I guess, juicy in my mind. We're not yet at the point in this case where we are ready to seriously consider a plea agreement, but we're working diligently and that time could come in the next several weeks.

[Stephanie Young]

Keep in mind, it's been a few months since Mr. Lueder sent this statement to Kristin. The impression I got after being in the room for the May 20 status hearing is that Laura's attorney is now considering a plea deal. Whether Laura will take her attorney's advice is another question. I asked Greg Woodnick how he would approach this case if he were representing Laura.

[Greg Woodnick]

If I were representing someone like Laura, who was facing 14 felony charges with multiple victims, I'd be trying to find a way to mitigate the damages. And what that means is coming up with data to present to the county attorney, to the sentencing judge that somehow assures both of them that whatever happened leading up to these charges and whatever resolution is going to be reached short of a trial, it's not going to

[Stephanie Young]

happen again, as you can probably guess. My next question was simple. How exactly do you track down that kind of data?

[Greg Woodnick]

The way I would do it is I would bring her to a respected forensic psychologist, maybe a doctor who's got some expertise in whatever she is saying. Her personal challenges are to do a neuropsychological assessment. There may be some specialized psychometric testing that is done in light of what she wrote in the Medium article that she recently found out she's autistic. I don't know if it's true or not. We'll find out or not. Maybe we won't find out. I don't know.

[Stephanie Young]

According to Woodnick, the information provided during these evaluations is typically self reported.

[Greg Woodnick]

The elephant in the room is that I think anyone who's listened to your podcast and knows this saga should be incredulous of any data that's presented by Laura. She has a pretty good history of doctoring and augmenting information that comes to and is sent to providers and presenting it as if it's medical gospel. That said, assuming a well informed doctor assessed her and was able to get to the bottom of some of the cause here, I think it's something we should all embrace because at the end of the day, a jail consequence is, I think, what a lot of people are hoping for. But she's not going to be in jail forever. She may be in jail for a very short time, if at all. Really what we should be concerned about is making sure this doesn't happen again. And if a doctor can be involved in a process to make sure that other people aren't harmed by Laura again, then I think that's something we should all lean into.

[Stephanie Young]

But there's one other issue that might be causing a holdup in this scenario.

[Greg Woodnick]

The problem with that analysis is it presupposes that someone's willing to acknowledge what they did was wrong. And so I don't know how that's going to play out here because I'm not sure Laura's going to do that, which would be her opportunity to explain herself at a trial. In theory, Laura doesn't have to explain anything to anybody. The burden of proof is squarely on the state to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Laura committed the 14 listed felonies. And Laura can sit there quietly and never explain herself. And that's totally allowable. And that's how the law works. So we may never get an explanation. Or she can choose to testify and try to explain her behaviors. We wouldn't know until trial what she chose to do.

[Stephanie Young]

The number one question I've been getting since the podcast ended, and one I'm sure I'll keep getting, is why do all of Laura's legal proceedings keep getting delayed? I asked Woodnick specifically about her criminal case and his answer surprised me.

[Greg Woodnick]

I think people are frustrated with the delay. I will tell you, there's nothing here that's out of the ordinary. This case, there were two indictments that got strung out a little bit because of the seven additional charges involving Greg Gillespie. Right. That kind of extended things out a little bit, but there's no significant delays here.

[Stephanie Young]

No significant delays here. This drawn out back and forth about additional indictments, extended plea deadlines and new attorneys being brought on, apparently that's typical of criminal proceedings.

[Greg Woodnick]

That said, I think people are worried there's going to be other Delays if there's no plea, for example, on the eve of trial, medical issues or personal issues, trying to delay the trial. Those are what I refer to in life and practice as tomorrow problems. We won't know those problems exist until they exist.

[Stephanie Young]

And as we wait to find out if this case will even go to trial, Clayton is becoming frustrated. Understandably so.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I honestly don't have trust. I wish I did in the court system, But I am hesitant to believe that my best interest will be served and that of the victims. I mean, I felt like this case should have been over years ago. And it's not to say that we're not gonna have a favorable outcome. It's not to say that the Maricopa county attorney's office isn't doing their job. But I'm not willing to trust Foley.

[Stephanie Young]

A lot of victims feel this way because, remember, this criminal case is the State of Arizona vs Laura Owens. The state prosecutors don't work for Clayton or any of the victims in their cases. For them to settle a case with a plea agreement is more like a math equation and less like a battle for justice. Because he's listed as a victim, Clayton gets advance notice about what the prosecutors plan to do with the case. A few months ago, Clayton, he learned the terms of the state's first plea offer. As we heard in a previous episode, he wasn't happy with it. And unfortunately, the specifics of that plea offer still are not public. Following the hearing on May 20, Clayton texted me to say he planned to write a letter to Ed Leiter, the lead prosecutor for the state of Arizona. Clayton wants him to reconsider what's being offered in the plea deal.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I've gotten very nervous with the plea silence as we are awaiting trial, which is approaching, but there's just not really anything occurring. And talking with the other victims, I realized that I don't want this to just cool off and her potentially get a reduction in the police. So let me write this letter. I really want the prosecutor to understand that I'm still watching and I'm still very involved. And I really can't afford for this to be anything less than what it already is. And what was offered to me is not enough. And so please reconsider, because Laura's antics will not stop until she is separated from her environment. Right. She needs to be taken out of her environment, which means jail or prison.

[Stephanie Young]

Unlike most other victims, Clayton has a platform and a dedicated following. He can use that to apply pressure on the case. It's a privilege.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I decided to post the letter on my page. Just to ensure that everyone knows I wrote the letter, including the Maricopa County Attorney's Office, that they would see it and go, okay, you know, not that they would do this, but I had the thought, what if they say, oh, we never saw the email? And I was like, I'm not willing to have that be the answer. So let's just post it online, everywhere so that everyone sees it. So that way that can't be an excuse.

[Stephanie Young]

I asked Clayton to read the letter. Here's what he wrote.

[Narrator or Voice Over]

Mr. Leiter and victim Services. I'd like to start by thanking Rachel Mitchell and everyone at MCAO for their work on this case. As one of many of Laura Owens victims, it has been very validating to have the county take her crimes seriously. That said, I remain significantly concerned about Laura Owens and the possibility of her not receiving any jail time. My attorney, Greg Woodnick, has told me that nonviolent offenders like Laura often do not receive prison time. However, Laura is no ordinary offender and her actions, though not physically violent, have been acts of violence. I know she will not stop unless she faces real accountability. I can already predict that she is busy having a psychologist who she will give more false information to further attempt to minimize her culpability, to mitigate her exposure and further portray herself as the quote, unquote, real victim. Since Laura had 14 felony charges brought against her, she has shown no signs of remorse or accountability. I fear she is incapable of ever acknowledging the damage she's caused. And even if she did take a plea that does not include incarceration, she will claim she was forced into it. She knows how to game the system and will twist everything to support her fake victim narrative. She is relentless.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I would appreciate a plea that stops

[Narrator or Voice Over]

her from being on the Internet like they do with sex offenders to stop her from terrorizing us. She is even posting articles on medium.com proclaiming her innocence. Most alarming, she's back on dating apps. As your investigative team found, Laura falsely claimed she had not been intimate with anyone since March of 2022, when in reality, she had sex the same week she claimed to have had intercourse with me. I have never had sex with her or assaulted her like she alleged. She is dangerous and will continue to use the Internet to prepare perpetuate her crimes. Without incarceration and accountability, there will be more than Mike, Matt, Greg and I and the others who have not publicly stepped forward. There's a clear pattern of abuse that will not stop unless Laura is taken out of her environment and placed somewhere where she can no longer hurt her current victims and find new ones. While Laura is not a, quote, unquote violent offender in the traditional sense, I feel strongly that we should not overlook the extreme mental, emotional and financial damage she has caused. Even after Judge Matta and the court of appeals ordered her to pay fees for what they found to be meritless and fraudulent, she has paid nothing and then lied again in bankruptcy court. Please talk to the DOJ attorney, Jennifer about this for me. She publicly carried out a defamation scheme against me, hurting my reputation and taking away my ability to switch speak to youth about mental health awareness, which is my passion and one of the few things that makes me feel alive. The false accusation and sexual assault claim she launched against me ripped away the ability for me to make an impact on children, which caused me to find myself in a depression that persisted for many months on end. She went to the media using the COVID of anonymity to try and destroy me, emailed job opportunities to allege I was abusive, and tried to convince tens of thousands of bachelor fans that I was a deadbeat father to her fake twins. It has taken me years to recover from this and will continue to take years to fully address the emotional trauma. I'm not embarrassed to share that I had suicidal ideation from this entire experience. And if it were up to Laura, I truly think she would have me dead. This woman is incredibly smart, manipulative, and a danger to society. She lacks the ability to feel bad for anyone other than herself. And if you happen to, quote, unquote, hurt her ego, she'll spend a lifetime trying to destroy everything you've built. As seen with Michael Maraccini and her claims against Great Gillespie. I am respectfully requesting you reconsider the current plea deal and ensure Laura faces a penalty or there is a jail consequence. It is the only way to stop her. For if you do not, I promise you will see the day where new victims of Laura Owens arise, and also potentially the day where you will see one of the victims finally fall.

[Stephanie Young]

A few days after Clayton sent that heartfelt letter to the prosecutor's office, he received an unexpected phone call.

[Clayton Eckerd]

They told me they got my email and I realized that I didn't fully understand the plea deal.

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[Stephanie Young]

Clayton's letter caught the attention of the Maricopa County Attorney's Office. Almost immediately. They called Clayton and asked him for an in person meeting it was really

[Clayton Eckerd]

nice because they sat down with me, told me they got my email and they wanted to make sure that I was comfortable, an understanding as well of what all has been currently offered because I realized that I didn't fully understand the plea deal.

[Stephanie Young]

The state prosecutors explained to Clayton the offer on the table to Laura. Again, this offer is not public, so we can't speculate because we don't know what it is. But Clayton has alluded that the plea offer currently does not include prison time. Clayton wants Laura to see time behind bars. Here's the part he didn't understand. Prison and jail are different things.

[Greg Woodnick]

Prison has vocational programs, counseling programs, social dynamic. Jail, at least in Arizona, is for shorter term sentences.

[Stephanie Young]

Even if Laura doesn't receive a prison sentence, probation can include jail time. Here's Woodnick again to help explain.

[Greg Woodnick]

In theory, you can have jail as part of probation. That's different than prison, where they send you away and you likely may even be leaving Maricopa county and going to some prison out in the boondocks.

[Stephanie Young]

If Laura decides to accept a plea deal, this would mean she's pleading guilty to at least some of the charges. And from there she would be sentenced based on her guilty plea. The next step is then a sentencing hearing.

[Greg Woodnick]

The sentencing hearing is a formal hearing where the the court hears from the county attorney representing the state of Arizona and the victims regarding the impact that the crimes have had on them.

[Stephanie Young]

Clayton and Greg Gillespie, who are both listed as victims in this case, would have the opportunity to speak directly to the judge at the sentencing hearing. This is when they can ask the judge to consider jail time as part of her sentence.

[Clayton Eckerd]

If it's convincing and the judge feels that we are in the right with what we're stating, then they can basically impose what we're requesting.

[Stephanie Young]

If she were to plead guilty, Laura would also have the opportunity to speak at her own sentencing and other people are welcome to speak on her behalf.

[Greg Woodnick]

I think Laura is going to be very tempted to talk about how she's been victimized by what's happened and how she's been bullied by social media. And listen, I'm sure there has been some comments made on social media that are not very flattering. I would if Laura listened to me remind her about who brought this to the media's attention.

[Stephanie Young]

If Laura doesn't receive a prison sentence, she'll likely be on probation. As we said, that could still include jail time.

[Greg Woodnick]

It often has a component of what they call colloquially hotel time. So a lot of times you're allowed to get out during the day, during jail time, and go to work five days a week and come back. Under some programs, it's basically like a

[Stephanie Young]

work release program where you spend nights and weekends in jail. During the day, you can leave to go to work. But there's a major caveat here in Arizona, qualifying for this kind of work release isn't automatic. On probation, an offender has to comply with a specific set of rules. For example, you have to prove you're gainfully employed, and you must generally clock at least 32 hours of work a week. If an offender doesn't meet these requirements, they can end up spending more time behind bars.

[Greg Woodnick]

I do think an appropriate consequence has her incarcerated for a period of time, though.

[Stephanie Young]

Clayton feels the same way. For him, real accountability means incarceration. When he met with prosecutors, that's what he told them.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I asked for a readjustment of the plea, which it may or may not occur, but I asked for at least a year minimum of just jail or prison.

[Stephanie Young]

So in the 11th hour, he's been ramping up communication with prosecutors.

[Clayton Eckerd]

Nobody knows Laura better than we do as the victims. While the prosecutor has done a great job and has put her feet to the flame, it's important for us to be able to explain that, hey, this isn't enough. You would think that a felony would deter somebody from continued bad behavior. But trust us when we tell you as the victims of Laura Owens, that it will not stop her.

[Stephanie Young]

We have to remember that if Laura is convicted either at trial or through a plea, the law is going to view her as a first time nonviolent offender. Woodnick explains why that matters.

[Greg Woodnick]

Generally speaking, people don't go to prison as first time convicted nonviolent offenders. That said, I get why everyone is frustrated, and I think there's a lot of stirring that she belongs in prison. That said, the appropriate consequence is going to be the consequence that the judge gives, and we need to trust in the process.

[Stephanie Young]

For now, we wait. As for what's next, Laura has a public hearing on Monday, June 29th. That's where we'll likely find out whether she intends to take the plea. Clayton will be in the courtroom.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I don't want the judge thinking that, oh, I'm just too busy and I have other stuff going on. I want to show up, even if it's a five minute status conference, and just be like, hey, I'm here because I've been severely impacted and I want this woman locked away. This is serious to me.

[Stephanie Young]

We also have to brace for the reality that this Might drag out even longer. The expiration on the plea deal has already been extended and it could happen again. Here's Clayton.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I was told that there will not be a further kicking of the can. So I want to believe that. So I'm going to, just for that right now, give the Maricopa County Attorney's Office the benefit of the doubt here and say there won't be. I don't want to even play the what if scenario. I mean, I'll just say this. If it does get kicked down the road, I'll be disappointed. But, I mean, what can I do at this point?

[Stephanie Young]

Woodnick also believes we're getting close to a resolution here.

[Greg Woodnick]

If they need to extend it, it's for a good reason. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they have to do that, that's okay. That's how the process works. I think the case is about to come to a head. Either we're going to know trial is supposed to start soon, or she's going to enter a plea sitting here today. My guess is that she's going to enter an agreement. Certainly, if I were her defense counsel, I would be encouraging it, but that's just me.

[Stephanie Young]

Clayton, however, sees it differently.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I think we're going to trial, especially after talking to the prosecutor and realizing that Greg and I have the ability, if she takes the plea, to go in front of the judge and ask for harsher sanctions. I think that's a very big risk for her. Not only does she have to admit that she had committed wrongdoing, but then she runs the risk of us being able to successfully prove to the judge that we need harsher sanctions. And that basically could be the end of it for her. I think she really believes that she still has an out.

[Stephanie Young]

Monday, June 29th is a big day for Laura Owens. We might find out if she's taking the plea in her criminal case in Arizona. And there's something else happening on that same day. An important filing in Laura's domestic violence restraining order with Mike Maracini. We spent a few episodes of the podcast going into his story and the DVRO Laura filed against him. The last update you heard was that the DVRO had been dismissed by a San Francisco judge, but it wasn't quite over because Laura is planning to appeal that dismissal. They're completely different legal battles in different states, but in Laura's mind, they could be tied together because this is where the two timelines collide. Her appellate brief for the DVRO case is due on Monday, June 29th the exact same day as her criminal status hearing in Arizona. We know she's deeply invested in what happens with Mike Maracini. After reporting on this case for so long, I believe that having a DVRO against Mike is her top priority. If she pleads guilty in Arizona, that could impact what she files in San Francisco. And of course the Reddit sleuths are speculating about what this means for Laura.

[Podcast Listener/Caller]

She can't plead guilty or this whole DVRO process falls apart. I think she's trying to get the DVRO granted and then may consider a plea.

[Odoo Advertiser]

I believe she won't take a plea deal solely because if she admits she lied, it might make people question her alleged DV claims related to Mike.

[Kristin Thorne]

If she takes the plea deal, everything

[Prosecutor or Court Official (possibly Ed Leiter or Aaron Petticone)]

else she has on hand may not have any merit.

[Narrator or Voice Over]

If she pleads guilty, she'll lose that control over her case and claims of Mike.

[Stephanie Young]

I think she's going to go to trial. It seems like Laura's criminal case might finally be coming to a head. I'll be following the developments closely, both in Arizona and California. In the meantime, we have one more episode coming out tomorrow. Like I said, there's been a lot going on over the past six weeks and I think it's stuff you'll want to hear.

[Podcast Listener/Caller]

The email that came back to me was signed by Ron and Jan.

[Stephanie Young]

I received an email that said a privacy complaint had been made against my entire YouTube channel.

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Ron and Jan filed a last minute petition.

[Kristin Thorne]

We were all just like Jaws to the floor. Like oh my God.

[Podcast Listener/Caller]

Ron made it very clear that they support her and they believe that she she was pregnant.

[Stephanie Young]

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A five star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the Love Trapped team or have a similar story to share, email [e-mail] that's lovetrapped podmail.com Lovetrapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart podcast. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Federman. Written, produced and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Additional production support from Todd Ganz. Our Production Manager is Kristen Melciri for iHeart podcasts. Ali Perry was our Executive producer. Audio editing and Mastering by Anna MacLaine Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Del Vecchio. Thank you to our voice actors Kaitlyn Golden, Todd Ganz, Kerry Hartman and Matt Del Vecchio. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Leb Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by My Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreincheck, Ali Kanter and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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