Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (2:46)

When Mike Maracini ended his year and a half long entanglement with Laura Owens, he wanted to be done with her.

Mike Maracini (2:52)

I deleted everything on my phone. I didn't want to read her name. I didn't want to see her face. I just wanted to forget about that chapter in my life because it was really a hard time for me.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (3:05)

But years later, Mike would find out that his experience with Laura was the beginning of a pattern. One that thousands of people online had become obsessed with. Maybe most invested of all was Dave Neal.

Dave Neal (3:19)

It was almost like Laura had this dam that she was holding up with her own hands. The leaks were coming out and she was very much like a cartoon, just doing her best, duct taping this thing shut. And then this laptop came out of nowhere.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (3:32)

Mike Maracini's laptop. It had been gathering dust and storage for almost five years.

Dave Neal (3:38)

When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of it like sitting alone in a giant room in a museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (3:46)

Mike had no idea that all the information he'd deleted could be recovered and that the memories he tried so hard to forget would soon become critical evidence.

Dave Neal (3:56)

They found thousands of pages of documents, but more telling was just to show how damaging Laura was to Mike. They unearthed things he had forgotten actually happened.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (4:13)

I'm stephanie young and this is love trapped. Ever, Ever

Redfin Advertiser (4:34)

try to leave.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (4:43)

In the last episode, you heard about Laura's year and a half long relationship with Mike Marini. Laura planned a trip to Iceland. According to Mike, it was part of the radio show he'd been developing with Laura. The trip was paid for.

Mike Maracini (4:56)

It was lined up with, like things to do the entire time we were in Iceland. So from start to finish, there was an event every single day of something to do to report back on. At the end of the trip for the podcast

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (5:12)

today, he wonders who actually footed the bill for their trip to Iceland. After recording multiple episodes of the radio show with Laura, he asked her when he could expect to see compensation.

Mike Maracini (5:24)

I brought up that we were just working for free and I had spent like 50 plus hours on these podcasts being part of the edits, being part of the research, and that I wasn't gonna do any more work for free.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (5:39)

After he set this boundary, he says Laura sent him Some money directly.

Mike Maracini (5:44)

I was paid one time and I think it was like $1,600 from Laura. I never got paid through a station.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (5:52)

The radio contract Mike had been waiting for never came to fruition. After that, he walked away. But looking back, almost 10 years later, he wishes he'd never gotten on that plane to Iceland. From what he remembers, the flight there was miserable.

Mike Maracini (6:09)

We're like maybe two hours in the flight and she's hysterically crying, hysterically crying. This is probably like at midnight. People around us are all turning around, looking at us, and she's like lifting off my headphones and saying, please talk to me.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (6:27)

Laura has a very different version of what happened on their Iceland trip. She told her story five years later in a now infamous TEDx talk.

Laura Owens (6:36)

He said that he didn't want to end our relationship, but I couldn't understand why he didn't want to when he treated me like he hated me. He said that I brought it out of him, that it was my fault that he'd never been violent before he met me, that I was responsible for his transformation from the all American boy to American Psycho.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (6:55)

Anyone can start a TEDx chapter. The one Laura applied to speak at was something called TedX. Mercer Island HS Women HS seems to stand for high school. The chapter Laura spoke at was organized by three high school sophomores based in Seattle. On their website, the organizers say their goal was to empower women in the Seattle area. We don't know how Laura found this specific group or how she became a speaker there, especially because Laura doesn't appear to have any ties to Seattle. But once her TEDx talk was published, Laura seemed to think she was making a name for herself. She included the link to her TEDx talk in her email signature. She also sent the link to Greg Woodnick, the lawyer who was representing Greg Gillespie at the time. This was her proof of her status as a public figure. Here's Woodnick.

Greg Woodnick (7:50)

Not only was there a link to her TED Talk, which she was telling us about, but further down, there was this curious Italian last name in one of the links, also attached to the name Laura Owens.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (8:02)

That curious Italian last name was Maracini. Woodnick's team tracked Mike down and found him listed on a court docket for a restraining order case Laura had filed against him. Shortly after, Woodnick got in touch with Mike. But Mike didn't want anything to do with Laura Owens. Here's what he remembers from that first phone call with Woodnick.

Mike Maracini (8:26)

He was like, by the way, she's got a TED Talk about you. Did you know that I said about me? Does she like say my name in it? And he's like, I think you should watch it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (8:39)

So Mike went on YouTube and typed in Laura Owens TED Talk.

Mike Maracini (8:44)

That was the only time I had watched like the first 30 seconds of it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (8:47)

To this day, Mike can't bring himself to watch the whole thing.

Mike Maracini (8:51)

It's absolutely crazy to watch, knowing it's about me. Yeah, it's crazy to say the least.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (8:59)

Even though Laura doesn't name him, Mike says he immediately recognized Laura's story is about him.

Mike Maracini (9:06)

When I watched it, I was in such shock because I know that she's referencing me the entire time. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put that together, hold the views of those people that probably believed her and were against me for the longest period of time. It's a lot to take in. I had to turn it off though, because it just, I mean, it was all such complete lies and I just couldn't take any more of it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (9:31)

In the TEDx talk, Laura presents a selfie. She's taken in a hospital bed. Her face looks bruised. She claims this photo is proof of the physical abuse she'd experienced with Mike in the months after their Iceland trip.

Laura Owens (9:45)

Here's where I was when I actually posted it, in the hospital after my abuser and I had a particularly rough night.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (9:53)

But here's the thing. Mike had seen this photo before, or at least one that looked very similar. And when I say very similar, I mean it looks like the exact same photo. Laura sent it to him four months before their trip to Iceland. And with the photo, she texted him saying she was at the hospital in preparation for an abortion she had scheduled the following day. This is what she sent him with her text read by a voice actor.

Stephanie Young (10:22)

I'm at the er. My doctor wants them to get my fluids up so we can try to do the procedure tomorrow. Can you be back tonight at my my place? For sure. Looking bomb AF on narcotics.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (10:38)

Even though Mike hadn't seen the TEDx talk, he was painfully aware of the allegations Laura made against him. That's because on June 9, 2018, Laura filed a temporary restraining order against Mike Maracini.

Mike Maracini (10:53)

She had these two bulldog attorneys that were elite attorneys, like, extremely good. And these two people took it personal with me. They thought that I was beating the crap out of Laura.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (11:09)

According to her court records, it looks like Laura used a San Francisco based legal clinic that specializes in free legal services for survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking. I'm not naming this clinic because I Don't think they did anything wrong. Clinics like this exist for a reason. It's their job to believe their clients, even if they don't have any proof of the abuse. These kind of free legal services for survivors, they can save lives. And importantly, we know that falsified allegations of sexual abuse only account for about 5% of all claims. In June 2018, Mike had to give his sworn deposition to Laura's attorneys. At the time, he just started dating someone new. Danielle.

Danielle Maracini (12:04)

I'm Danielle Maracini and I am Mike Maracini's wife.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (12:09)

From the very start of their relationship, Mike was open about what he was going through with Laura Owens.

Danielle Maracini (12:15)

I feel like most of it was told at least the first month I knew that she had accused him of domestic violence. And I did drive him to his deposition.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (12:26)

On the way to the deposition, Danielle remembers how nervous Mike was.

Danielle Maracini (12:31)

He was incredibly anxious.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (12:33)

They'd only been dating for a few months. When Mike got back in the car,

Danielle Maracini (12:37)

he was just defeated.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (12:41)

The deposition was much more intense than he'd expected. Mike thought he was just going there to tell the truth.

Danielle Maracini (12:48)

I do remember him just saying how they can find lies, even though he's not actively lying. To frame him as this, like, violent guy.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (13:01)

For example, Laura's attorneys asked him if he liked guns. He was confused and said no. Then they brought up an old social media photo where Mike is holding a rifle. He says the picture was taken while he and friends had been shooting clay pigeons at a firing range. But Laura's attorneys used it to paint a picture of Mike as a violent guy who wasn't being honest about his relationship to guns.

Mike Maracini (13:25)

It was post the deposition where my attorney said, if you go to court, there's a high likelihood that they're going to press for a five year restraining order or a permanent restraining order if they find valid evidence. Now, there was no valid evidence at the time, but she was throwing everything at the wall. I feel like I'm fighting a ghost. I don't have evidence to support that. I didn't beat her up. I don't know how I fight this.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (13:50)

Danielle took it all in.

Danielle Maracini (13:51)

I definitely felt hesitant at first, I think, as most women would. But ultimately it just was this feeling that didn't track. Like the things that she was accusing him of from the very short amount of time that I had known him just didn't make sense. And I thought, if this man did these egregious things, why would he be telling me about them?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (14:23)

She decided to proceed with caution, but her friends were alarmed.

Danielle Maracini (14:28)

My friends did have the obligatory, hey, Danielle, those are really scary accusations. Once a domestic violence perpetrator, always a domestic violence perpetrator, and rightfully so. Did my friends warn me about that.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (14:49)

But Danielle saw Mike as gentle, the kind of guy who repeatedly went out of his way to be there for her. Early on in their relationship, my dad

Danielle Maracini (14:58)

passed away a little less than two months of knowing each other. Mike just said, I'm coming.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (15:06)

Mike made a five hour journey to be by her side, and he was there a few months later when Danielle received terrible news about her mom.

Danielle Maracini (15:15)

She passed away like two months after my dad. I just remember crumpling to the floor and Mike was there. It just told me everything that I had needed to know about him very early on.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (15:32)

This is why she believed Mike when he told her Laura's allegations were false.

Mike Maracini (15:37)

I'm so thankful that she gave me a chance and she stuck by me because we're now married with two little ones.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (15:47)

Danielle's been there with Mike through his entire legal battle with Laura Owens. After the deposition, Mike learned what he was up against. A domestic violence restraining order.

Mike Maracini (15:59)

I thought it was essentially like a civil restraining order, but since we were in a relationship, it was considered domestic violence. That was not really explained to me clearly when it was happening.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (16:11)

The DVRO Laura's attorneys proposed would expire or renew after two years. And there was a mutual stipulation. Neither of them could come within 300ft of the other. That was appealing to Mike because he had no desire to see her or speak with her anyways. So he signed it. Not fully understanding what he'd just done, he sent it to his attorney and wrote in the email, this was so difficult for me to sign, knowing I never laid a hand on this woman and this will be on my record for life.

Mike Maracini (16:45)

When I agreed to the two year restraining order, my attorney's like, let's just hope that she moves on with her life. Let's hope she finds love. I was like, amen, sister. So that's what I thought. I was signing up for like a two year. It goes away.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (16:59)

In retrospect, Mike wishes he fought the DVRO harder, but at the time, he believed his lawyer when she said this would be resolved in two years. After signing the dvro, Mike and his wife Danielle tried to move on with their lives. But that document would impact them in ways they didn't expect.

Mike Maracini (17:23)

I noticed that when I would go through the process of getting a new job, I would make it to the final and they were like, hey, here's your verbal offer pending background check. The first time I was like, oh, well, whatever. Nothing's going to show up. And then I didn't get the job. I didn't realize until I pulled a background check on myself that it shows up that I have a domestic violence restraining order and it's active. I would say that was the biggest piece of how it really affected my relationship, is being able to support, provide for my family. Because we ended up getting pregnant, real pregnancy, in 2020, the DVRO had turned

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (18:04)

into an albatross hanging over both of them. Then In July of 2020, Danielle heard a knock at the front door.

Danielle Maracini (18:12)

I was probably four or five months pregnant when the attorney came to our door. And she was like, is Michael Maraccini here? And I was like, who are you? I'm not telling you yes or no. Why are you here at my house?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (18:29)

Mike came to the door and stepped outside with the attorney. It turns out the two years were

Danielle Maracini (18:34)

up, and he comes back in, and he was just like, she's renewing. And I was like, no. So it really blindsided us. I just remember erupting into tears.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (18:51)

By September of 2020, Mike was back in court with Laura Owens. Mike went in person, and Laura joined on the phone.

Mike Maracini (18:59)

I hadn't seen her once in years. I moved away, and I thought to myself, like, how is this even possible? How can somebody renew when you haven't violated it?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (19:08)

Laura said she had proof that Mike violated the dvro. She produced a screenshot of one of Mike's Instagram stories. He says his account was private and he had Laura blocked, but somehow she had a picture he'd posted of a smoothie he ordered at Barry's boot camp. Laura said that Barry's is less than 300ft from her apartment. But Mike had a rebuttal. Barry's is a franchise. He wasn't at the one next to her apartment.

Mike Maracini (19:36)

I said, this is inaccurate. I was 30 miles away. I was in a completely different city. This is my gym log with my smoothie order.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (19:45)

In the end, it didn't matter if Mike had actually violated the DVRO or not, because Laura was telling the judge she had reasonable apprehension of future abuse in her renewal. Laura said, without a restraining order, I would never feel safe again. With that, the court renewed the domestic violence restraining order. This time it would stay in place for the next five years.

Mike Maracini (20:13)

I sat there and I said to the judge at the very end, I was like, please make this a civil restraining order, because this affects my livelihood of getting jobs My wife is pregnant. I am expecting a child here soon. I would really appreciate this could be moved to like a civil restraining order and they essentially told me no. She still fears for her life.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (20:36)

Danielle was devastated. This renewal came with shocking realizations.

Danielle Maracini (20:41)

We realized that she was never going to let him out of her grip and that the justice system will most likely never side with him.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (20:56)

Later on in this series, I travel to San Francisco because at the end of 2025, Mike's DVRO was set to expire or renew once again. But before that happened, Mike was in for a surprise. He was about to discover the nightmare he'd lived through with Laura. Owens was part of a viral story and thousands of people online wanted to hear from him.

Mike Maracini (21:22)

At some point I saw MM and I was like, are they talking about me?

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Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (24:49)

Up to this point, we've been telling the story of each individual case. Clayton Eckerd, Greg Gillespie, and Mike Maracini. But in the spring of 2024, in the lead up to Clayton's trial, their worlds collided. The three of them teamed up with the Internet detectives like Dave Neal and Schnitzel Ninja. So we're going to pick up where we left off and tell the story of how they all came together to support each other and try to get justice. In 2022, Greg Gillespie heard about Mike Maracini's experience. Greg sent him a friend request. Here's Mike.

Mike Maracini (25:27)

I'm sitting there like, I do not want this back on my radar. That's the last thing I want. He tried to friend request me and I had just gone through deleting everybody because Laura was watching me on social media. So I had, I think probably like a thousand plus people on just purgatory of my social media. And I never accepted his friend request.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (25:52)

Greg's Friend request went unanswered for over a year, until December 2023.

Mike Maracini (25:58)

I was doing New Year's resolutions with my wife. We were sitting on the couch, and she was asking me, if there's something you could change over the last year, what would you have done differently?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (26:12)

The answer came to Mike immediately.

Mike Maracini (26:14)

I should have reached out, and I should have accepted Greg Gillespie's friend request, just knowing that I've gone through the same experience and just been somebody to talk with. I told her that was by far my biggest regret. And she said, why don't you change that?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (26:34)

Here's Mike's wife, Danielle.

Danielle Maracini (26:37)

And so he pulled it up, and he accepted it. So we sat on the couch for probably the next 30 minutes crafting this message together.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (26:46)

For years, Mike thought he'd been the only one. Now he was writing to someone who'd been through the same ringer with Laura.

Mike Maracini (26:54)

So I sent him a message apologizing, like, hey, I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. I know what it's like to deal with this person and their consistent chaos. I'm just really, really sorry that I wasn't there for you. And he responded very quickly and said like, hey, Mike, I really appreciate it if you ever want to set up a call to chat sometime. More than happy to.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (27:22)

Mike thought they were a club of two. That's when Greg broke the news.

Danielle Maracini (27:26)

He goes, you haven't heard?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (27:30)

There was another guy. Same trap, same tactics.

Danielle Maracini (27:34)

And I was like, wait, there's another guy? And our eyes just popped out of our heads. And then he sends, like, an article. And Mike and I were like, what the fuck?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (27:52)

It turns out the other guy was kind of famous.

Mike Maracini (27:56)

I was like, who's Clayton? I don't know who Clayton is.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (28:01)

Mike had never watched the Bachelor, so he typed Clayton's name into Google.

Mike Maracini (28:06)

It pops up immediately, and it's like Reddit articles.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (28:10)

There was an entire subreddit about Clayton and Laura. He started reading at some point.

Mike Maracini (28:17)

I saw Mm. And I was like, are they talking about me?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (28:22)

That night, Mike and Danielle already had a date planned. Mike's mom was babysitting. So Mike and Danielle sat at a sushi restaurant and started scrolling. They had a lot of catching up to do. It was overwhelming to see the same pattern playing out a third time. And because of Clayton's fame, every small detail was public.

Mike Maracini (28:44)

And my wife breaks down at the restaurant, starts crying because she had doubted me. At times when she had thought to herself, like, though, I don't believe that you ever hit her or did things like that, but like, I'm sorry for ever even doubting you. We were at the bar, I'm sure the sushi chefs were like, what is going on with these two? They haven't talked all night. They're both on their phone and now they're crying.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (29:11)

Mike thought his relationship with Laura was a traumatic one off event. But now court documents from his case were being shared online, analyzed by YouTubers and content creators. Thousands of strangers had become incredibly invested in trying to prove Laura's lies. Like the woman who goes by the username Schnitzel Ninja.

Schnitzel Ninja (29:32)

I found out about Mike Maracini early on in the coverage of the case, and his court documents had been obtained from. From the San Francisco courthouse. And I went through those and the story just did not make sense to me.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (29:48)

If Mike went through something similar to what Clayton was going through, he could be the key to finally exposing Laura's pattern.

Schnitzel Ninja (29:55)

To find out there was this other person who actually dated her for a year and a half.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (30:01)

My mind was blown. But first, someone needed to reach out and see if Mike would be willing to talk.

Schnitzel Ninja (30:08)

So I sent him a fairly lengthy message, just explaining who I was, why I was reaching out, that I was sorry he had been through what he had been through and wondering if he was willing or interested in talking. And I wanted to give him more information about the case if he hadn't heard yet. That was the other thing. Did he even know about Clayton? I didn't even know for sure at the time if he knew about Greg Gillespie. I reached out to him to see if he wanted to have a conversation with me, not expecting that he would, but it turned out he did.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (30:44)

She wanted to be transparent about who she was, so she messaged from her personal account instead of her anonymous username.

Schnitzel Ninja (30:53)

I was thinking about the fact that Mike had been through this himself. He was a real person who had been through this experience. So I wanted to put that personal touch on my reaching out to him so it wasn't just a random person behind a screen or behind a phone. The next time I looked at my phone, I saw a message from him and I couldn't believe it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (31:17)

They started messaging. Making contact with Mike was a turning point for Schnitzel Ninja.

Schnitzel Ninja (31:24)

I started feeling more compelled to be involved when I found out about Mike Maracini. It's my opinion that she was lying about everything she claimed he did to her.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (31:41)

Schnitzelninja had seen the TEDx talk and she didn't believe Laura's story.

Schnitzel Ninja (31:46)

If this were Someone I cared about. I would hope that if someone had the time or the resources, whatever they had to give to help, I would hope that they would help. And I had time and I made time. So Mike was really the case. That kind of drew me in further.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (32:11)

Meanwhile, Mike was playing catch, up, reading everything he could find about Clayton and Laura's case. He couldn't believe it. And soon after he found out, Mike decided to DM Clayton.

Mike Maracini (32:23)

It's like, hey, I don't even know if you're going to see this. You got a lot of followers. I'm going to probably go into the message abyss, but I just want to say how sorry I am that you're dealing with this individual. I've dealt with her and I'm so sorry. If you ever want to talk, I'm more than happy to chat. And within two minutes, he responds. And I remember it starts off, he goes, I know exactly who you are. And he wants to set up a phone call.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (32:54)

So Mike and Clayton hopped on the phone.

Clayton Eckerd (32:56)

It was surreal at first to obviously find out that there's now another individual that went through this. But my story really paled in comparison to Mike because Mike actually dated Laura, which was mind blowing when I found that out. And to know that he had been going through this for six plus years, I mean, this is an ongoing battle he was facing. And the great thing, as I found out very quickly, was he had incredible support from his wife that was helping him through this troubling time. But ultimately he wanted to reach out and let me know that I wasn't alone. And the beautiful thing was is that his story was going to help me out so much. I did ask him a question of if he had saved anything from that time with Laura, whether he had any photos or text or anything of the matter.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (33:50)

When Mike connected with him, Clayton was preparing for his family court trial with Laura, the same one you heard about in episode seven.

Mike Maracini (34:00)

I told him. I was like, hey, I don't really have anything.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (34:03)

Mike spent years trying to put enough space between himself and the chaos Laura created.

Mike Maracini (34:08)

I deleted every photo with this person. I want nothing to do with this individual. I deleted all my text messages from my phone. I have nothing to be able to offer you guys. I can just be there as, like, support.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (34:25)

In the lead up to Clayton's family court trial, he and his lawyers were looking for verifiable evidence of Laura's pattern. So Clayton pushed Mike to take a second look.

Mike Maracini (34:36)

I'll never forget that I was talking with Clayton and he said, like, do you have, like, a laptop or anything? Like, sometimes icloud will store this information for you. So I go and I look at my storage unit. I'm like, oh, I still have this thing. It's completely dead.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (34:56)

Mike didn't even have a charger for his old laptop. His wife Danielle, had to track one down on Facebook Marketplace.

Mike Maracini (35:03)

I have no idea if there's anything on it, so I'm just cracking this thing open for fun.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (35:08)

Somehow Dave Neal heard about Mike's laptop, and he heard it might have some messages from Laura Owens on it. Here's Dave Neal.

Dave Neal (35:16)

When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of it like, sitting alone in a giant room in a museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (35:24)

Dave got in touch with Mike and

Dave Neal (35:26)

he's like, listen, I'm afraid to open it my icloud. It might delete things. I don't know what's in there. But he was like, I think I have text messages from Laura. And, boy, he had no idea what

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (35:38)

was in that laptop when they finally powered it on.

Mike Maracini (35:42)

It's got everything, absolutely everything. Every message that has ever been sent to and from every photo, every single item.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (35:55)

Immediately, Dave Neal jumped in to help. First priority was making sure everything on that laptop was backed up. Second, if any of Mike's evidence was ever going to be used in court, it would need to be authenticated by a computer forensics expert, which would run about $3,500. Dave had been covering Laura's story for about a year. He knew how Laura operated. When confronted with proof, he couldn't just

Dave Neal (36:22)

present an email from her. She'd say it was made up. Someone hacked in. Dog ate my homework. She's made every claim to get out of everything. So we said, we need to hire someone who's a professional that goes into court and tells other people this is real.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (36:38)

You already know what Dave's about to

Dave Neal (36:40)

do next, so we do a fundraiser before I hit publish on the live stream. Before, like, we went live, we already hit the 3, 500 bucks.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (36:53)

With the fund secured, Mike got in the car and drove about an hour away to meet the forensic expert. Here's Mike.

Mike Maracini (37:00)

I felt like I was holding, like, a newborn baby. I was, like, gripping it so tight. I was just like, please do not drop this. Do not get in a car accident. Because I had to drive it, like an hour to listen to Baby to authenticate it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (37:17)

When the report came back, the data was verified. The text messages Mike had from Laura were genuine and unaltered.

Dave Neal (37:25)

We got the Report back. It was legitimately, like 2,500 pages. And there's just absolutely no way she can deny that this exists.

Mike Maracini (37:34)

That was the first moment where I really just felt like people believed in me and wanted to see my innocence be shown and, like, the truth to come out because I had been fighting her for so long.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (37:53)

In helping Clayton's defense, Mike was finding validation he didn't know he needed. He was grateful for the community who believed and supported him.

Mike Maracini (38:02)

I'll never forget that moment. It was really, really powerful for me and just. I'm so thankful for the community for what they did.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (38:14)

So many of the discoveries you've heard about in the last few episodes were all coming together in the two months before Clayton's trial. Content creators Dave Neal and Megan Fox discovering the Fiverr logo on the ultrasound, the altered HCG test, Chase J. Jones, and now Mike's laptop.

Dave Neal (38:33)

All of the evidence seemingly came out at the same time. It was almost like Laura had this dam that she was holding up with her own hands. The leaks were coming out, and she was very much like a cartoon, just doing her best, duct taping this thing shut. And then this laptop came out of nowhere.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (38:51)

Dave was talking about the case almost every day on his podcast and YouTube channel.

Dave Neal (38:56)

We always say sunlight's the greatest disinfectant. Everybody, get all the information you have, Bring it to light. You might have something that looks stupid. Bring it up. Let the public see. There's 10,000 people watching this. Someone's going to see something you don't see.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (39:11)

That's exactly what happened. As the Internet sleuths poured through documents, they found another man, a fourth man. All they had was a first name, Matt. But journalist Megan Fox tracked him down. I find people a lot. I can find people. Finding him was one of the toughest things that I've done as a journalist. It turns out Matt and Laura met about two years before she met Mike Maracini. So I basically got on Instagram and I sent everybody connected to him a message asking him to contact me. Because of this story that was happening, he got back to Megan, or rather, had his lawyer get back to Megan. Matt said he didn't want anything to do with Laura Owens. But in Laura's deposition with Greg Woodnick, she volunteered the information that there was a fourth man.

Greg Woodnick (40:04)

How many men have you told that you were pregnant by them?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (40:07)

A total of four.

Greg Woodnick (40:08)

Okay, I want to go through them. Mike Maraschini.

Danielle Maracini (40:11)

Correct.

Greg Woodnick (40:11)

How many times did you tell Mike Maraschini you're pregnant by him?

Laura Owens (40:14)

Twice.

Greg Woodnick (40:16)

Greg Gillespie Once. Clayton Eckert.

Laura Owens (40:20)

Once.

Greg Woodnick (40:20)

Who's the fourth man?

Laura Owens (40:22)

His name was Matt.

Greg Woodnick (40:24)

Recall what year this was?

Laura Owens (40:28)

2014, 2015.

Greg Woodnick (40:32)

How did that pregnancy end?

Laura Owens (40:34)

That ended with a miscarriage.

Greg Woodnick (40:36)

How far along were you, allegedly?

Laura Owens (40:39)

I was maybe six weeks.

Greg Woodnick (40:46)

Was there ever a suggestion from Matt that the pregnancy was fabricated?

Laura Owens (40:51)

Yes.

Greg Woodnick (40:53)

Matt suggested your pregnancy was fabricated?

Laura Owens (40:55)

Yes.

Greg Woodnick (40:57)

Four men have alleged that you have claimed to be pregnant by them and that it was a lie, correct?

Danielle Maracini (41:07)

Correct.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (41:11)

We've reached out to Matt for comment and didn't receive a reply. There's been a lot of online speculation about him. From what I've heard, Matt wants to stay far away from this story, which I completely understand. So out of respect for his choice, we're not going into any further details about him. A week before Clayton's family court trial, the witness list was published. As you know, Greg Gillespie and Mike Maracini were on the list. Even though Mike was subpoenaed, he still worried about what Laura would do if he showed up. He hadn't seen Laura in over five years, but she still had an active domestic violence restraining order against him. Here's Mike's wife, Danielle.

Danielle Maracini (41:55)

He goes, what if I get arrested? Danielle.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (41:58)

When Mike and Danielle arrived at Clayton's trial, you'll remember Laura's attorney called 911 and tried to report that Mike was violating his restraining order.

Mike Maracini (42:07)

My nervous level went through the roof. He is on the phone with 911, rattling off my details of what I'm wearing, my height, what color my shirt is, what color my shoes are. So then I'm fully rattled.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (42:23)

Clayton's lawyer, Woodnick, tried to reassure Mike and Danielle.

Danielle Maracini (42:26)

I just remember Woodnick being like, we've got you. Don't worry. You have a subpoena. They cannot do anything. This is a courthouse. You have a right to be here.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (42:39)

Woodnick was right. Mike and Danielle took a seat in the back. His heart was racing. After everything he'd been through with Laura, the last page place he wanted to be was in the same room as her.

Mike Maracini (42:52)

I just really am scared of her more than she's scared of me.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (42:57)

Danielle held his hand as Laura entered the courtroom.

Danielle Maracini (43:00)

To see the man who is my protector, not just of me, but of my daughters now just crumble in fear. To this person is such a infuriating feeling. And when she walked in, my husband was just a shaking mess.

Mike Maracini (43:26)

My wife probably stared at her the entire 30 minutes she was up there. But I never made eye contact and I never laughed during her ridiculous comments.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (43:37)

Mike didn't know if they would have time to call him to the stand because the trial was timed. But if they did, he was ready.

Mike Maracini (43:45)

I originally went to the June 10 hearing with full intention to testify.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (43:50)

In the end, there wasn't time in the trial to hear Mike's testimony. But when he and Danielle reflect on what happened at the trial, when I

Mike Maracini (43:58)

saw Laura get cross examined and get completely crushed, it made my mood much, much better because they just caught her in so many different lies when she

Danielle Maracini (44:08)

had the balls to say that actually she had gone to a different Planned Parenthood that they didn't subpoena. That was probably one of the more memorable moments sitting in there.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (44:22)

Even though they didn't have time to call Mike in the trial, his presence there made a difference to Clayton.

Clayton Eckerd (44:28)

It was really great to have their support in the courtroom and for me also, just to have a strong individual like Mike in my corner that validated everything that I had been through and was also willing to fight alongside me. That's why it was so important for me to have him there.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (44:45)

Mike and Danielle remember exactly where they were when they read the judge's ruling in Clayton's family court case.

Danielle Maracini (44:53)

I felt like finally a piece of this empire that she had built had been dismantled. I was like, this judge is not having it.

Mike Maracini (45:07)

Laura thought there was no repercussions, so that's why she thought she could just keep lying and getting away with it. And now she's paying the price.

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Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (48:35)

We're going to pick up where we left off at the end of Clayton's family court trial. After the judge's stern ruling, you might think that Laura would self reflect. Instead, she responded with indignation. She began a campaign against the family court judge who'd ruled against her, Judge Mata. It all started with a Medium blog post the day after Judge Mata's ruling. Laura published this on her Medium account. It's titled when judges play doctor ignoring 99.9% medical certainty for 0.1% doubt. We're having a voice actor read an excerpt from it.

Stephanie Young (49:14)

On June 18, the court ruled that a pregnant woman cannot be considered pregnant unless a judge agrees she is. Yes, you read that correctly. Apparently, in a twist of medical and judicial logic, it is now up to the courts, not doctors, to diagnose pregnancy. Despite medical evidence and a 99.9% certainty from an OBGYN who has delivered more than 22,000 babies that I was pregnant. Judge Mata chose to believe the 0.1% chance that my multiple positive pregnancy tests were due to something other than pregnancy. To add insult to injury, she has referred me to the Maricopa County Attorney for prosecution. Yes, you also read that correctly.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (49:57)

Laura's blog post goes on to quote Judge Mata's ruling, citing passages and describing why the judge got it wrong.

Stephanie Young (50:05)

When I found out I was pregnant, I was lost and I didn't know what to do. My depression worsened, making it nearly impossible to think clearly or make decisions. In the ruling, the judge wrote, the court finds failure to seek in person care for a high risk pregnancy to be both unreasonable and uncreditable. This cold assessment ignored the severe depression I was grappling with, which made every moment of my pregnancy an emotional battlefield. In all honesty, the medical care choices I made weren't what I would have chosen in ideal circumstances. If this had been an expected pregnancy, I would have definitely sought proper care. But the circumstances were far from ideal and the way Clayton treated me was terrible, leading to a restraining order being granted against him. The judge's opinion on what a reasonable person would have done doesn't take this into account, nor does it recognize the immense pressure I was under. Judge Motta then claimed that I have a pattern of similar, if not identical, behavior and referred the case to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review. Really? This was the first and only paternity case I have filed. The legal issues involving two of my exes were entirely different. Yes, I was pregnant by both and had abortions, but the legal matters were unrelated to paternity.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (51:29)

A few weeks after the ruling came down, Laura and her attorney filed to have Judge Motta removed from their case. They alleged that the judge was biased and prejudiced against Laura and therefore unable to preside over the case. I asked Clayton's lawyer, Greg Woodnick, about Laura's claim.

Greg Woodnick (51:47)

Judge Mate issued a very thoughtful, very detailed multi Page ruling. After that ruling came out, there was a filing by Ms. Owens suggesting there was some sort of impropriety on the court level by the court. And that motion ended up getting addressed not by the trial court judge, but by the head of the Maricopa County Superior Court Family Law Division. And that judge disagreed with the filing by Ms. Owens completely.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (52:14)

That didn't stop Laura from taking it a step further. On November 11, 2024, she officially filed her appeal with the Arizona Court of Appeals.

Greg Woodnick (52:25)

Briefs were filed by Laura. We filed responsive briefs. I think they filed some sort of reply to that, which they would be allowed to do at the appellate level. And then the Court of Appeals ruled on it, denying all of Laura's requests for relief.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (52:40)

The decision from the Arizona Court of Appeals stated Owens position on appeal is unreasonable.

Greg Woodnick (52:46)

Laura wasn't happy with that, so she filed a motion for reconsideration, asking the Court of Appeals again to reconsider their ruling. And again they affirmed their denial. So the Court of Appeals essentially rejected the argument twice. They also ordered attorney's fees.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (53:04)

Laura had already been knocked down twice, but she was still at it. Keep in mind, this was after Laura had been referred to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office. But Laura had a right, as does any litigant, to ask that the Court of Appeals decisions be reviewed by a higher court. So that's what she did.

Greg Woodnick (53:26)

Essentially, she asked the Arizona Supreme Court to consider it, and the Arizona Supreme Court declined to consider it and also ordered attorney's fees.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (53:36)

Multiple judges had now ruled against Laura. Each time her bill increased.

Greg Woodnick (53:41)

She had an attorney's fees award in the trial court, the Court of Appeals, and ultimately the Arizona Supreme Court.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (53:53)

That total came out to around $196,000. And at the time I'm recording this, Laura hasn't paid that balance.

Greg Woodnick (54:01)

I don't think she ever intended on paying it anyway. And the reason I say that is I think there was a video recording of her and her attorney where they announced on a YouTube video that they produced that she had no intention of ever paying it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (54:17)

Here's the YouTube video Woodnick is referencing. You'll hear Laura's attorney first.

David Jingres (54:22)

By the way, you can tell me if I'm not allowed to say this, but people are asking, when are you going to pay Clayton? Are you going to pay Clayton? I hope that you never pay Clayton. People think he's going to put you in jail. We don't do that in America. If you have millions of dollars stashed away, he can go look for it. If you don't, he ain't getting nothing. You could file bankruptcy or you could just not. But either way, there's no legal requirement for you to post a bond. All that means is he can go after you and collect. But if you don't have the money to be collected, I don't. Yeah, well, then guess what? You get blood from a stone or you don't. So we're not gonna post a bond for anything. You're not going to jail for non payment. That is not an option. And Clayton can just f off and do whatever he's doing. I still wish the guy well.

Public Advertiser (55:06)

Ish.

David Jingres (55:07)

I mean, I'd want him to get some therapy and figure out like, why am I such a dick?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (55:14)

In the middle of the appeal process, Laura's attorney, David jingres, started posting YouTube videos. Some of them feature Laura. You heard clips from these in episode two. I'm going to take a detour into these videos for a moment. Let's start with this one from January 2025.

David Jingres (55:32)

I am David.

Public Advertiser (55:33)

You are Laura.

David Jingres (55:35)

You are Laura. And we are the dynamic duo of disaster, here to bring you a little bit of a post holiday treat, shall we say?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (55:44)

You won't be surprised to learn that these videos have since been taken off YouTube. But things posted on the Internet have a way of sticking around. This specific one was posted on X.

David Jingres (55:56)

Okay, so we're recording.

Mike Maracini (55:58)

Hello, everyone.

David Jingres (56:00)

It's Douche Canoe and Pregnancy Faker. Yeah, we have just. I think you're supposed to look at the camera, so. See, I'm not a professional. You are.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (56:09)

David Jingres joined Laura's case right before the trial with Clayton. According to Jingris, they didn't know each other before that. She reached out to him cold. Within less than a year, they began posting videos like these on David Jingris's YouTube channel.

David Jingres (56:25)

I feel like you and I are sort of Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia and, you know, Dave Neil's Darth Vader or, you know, other people are Jabba the Hut. I'm not gonna say who.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (56:35)

In total, they posted about five videos together on YouTube. Jingris posted another 20 or so with just him on the mic. In this video from December 2024, he addresses why he's doing these in the first place.

David Jingres (56:50)

The YouTube comment section, it's a really mixed bag of people saying, why are you doing this? Why are you, you know, throwing more fuel or oxygen on the fire? Are you really helping Laura's interests? Are you putting Laura's interests first? And you know, people, I understand the criticism but at the same time, you know, there is no playbook. It's a bizarre situation that we're in.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (57:12)

I can't tell whose idea it was to make these videos. They were posted on Jingris YouTube channel. But Laura's clearly an active participant.

David Jingres (57:20)

You obviously approve whatever I post, and I'm doing this for you. I think I'm doing it for you.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (57:26)

Some of the things they say are downright surreal.

Laura Owens (57:30)

I was dating a guy from my high school who was my friend in high school, and I dated him through pretty much the end of senior year.

David Jingres (57:39)

Is that somebody that we know about or. We can keep his name out of this.

Laura Owens (57:43)

I think he's known as Victim Zero, although we never slept together, so.

David Jingres (57:48)

Well, that doesn't stop you from getting pregnant, as we know. But rim shot.

Laura Owens (57:54)

You're absolutely right.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (57:58)

In this one from December 13, 2024, Jingris is wearing a Santa suit, complete with a beard. Behind him is a bag of coal with the list of names on it. The first names on the list, Dave and Megan, presumably content creators Dave Neal and Megan Fox.

David Jingres (58:17)

I mean, look, it's Laura. It's Christmas. Christmas time. I've got a naughty list here of people that will be getting lumps of coal.

Laura Owens (58:24)

I love your naughty list.

Mike Maracini (58:25)

I know.

David Jingres (58:25)

I had to do it.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (58:27)

The video is titled Bachelor Paternity Scandal. Laura Confesses all to Santa.

David Jingres (58:33)

Did you ever see that movie Fatal Attraction? Glenn Close. That might have been before your time.

Laura Owens (58:37)

I didn't.

David Jingres (58:38)

Again, I'm a lot older than you, so that movie was actually, you know, I don't forget what year it came out. 1989, 90. Something like around that time. So you were like, zero. But that movie was kind of terrifying for a lot of people, you know, because Glenn Close plays this woman who's, like, obsessed with Michael Douglas, and she stalks him. They have one hookup, and then she completely stalks him and his family. He's married. And they.

Mike Maracini (59:00)

They.

David Jingres (59:00)

She winds up boiling the bunny. The guy, the family bunny.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (59:03)

They.

David Jingres (59:03)

She boils it on the stove.

Greg Woodnick (59:05)

Did you.

David Jingres (59:05)

Did you know that?

Danielle Maracini (59:06)

No.

David Jingres (59:07)

You ever heard that phrase, bunny boiler?

Laura Owens (59:10)

No.

David Jingres (59:10)

No. So it comes from that movie because Glen Close is obsessed with Michael Douglas and he doesn't want to have a relationship with her because he's cheating on his wife, basically, is what happened. And Glenn Close doesn't take no for an answer. So she keeps stalking him, breaking into his house or whatever, and she broke in and stole the family bunny and boiled it in a pot on the stove. I feel like people think that you're in that ballpark. Okay, so let's. Let's try to talk about why you're not.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (59:37)

Here's another clip from the Santa video.

David Jingres (59:39)

We talked about the fact that filing a paternity case, if you knew that you weren't pregnant would be the dumbest thing you could do. It wouldn't work, for one thing, and it would guarantee you that your lie would be exposed as quickly as possible. And I've said before that it's like a drunk driver, you know, that you're shit phrase drunk, and you deliberately go up to a cop and you say, hey, bro, can you test me? You wouldn't ever do no person. I mean, I guess. I guess if you were mentally ill or so drunk that you forgot your name, that might make sense to you. I don't see that in you, Laura. I don't see you as being a crazy person. You're a little different. I'm a little different. Everyone's a little different. But you're smart enough, I think, to know that filing a paternity case when you know that you're not pregnant, when you know that you faked the whole thing, when you know that there is no sonogram, when you know that there is no baby, you are literally inviting the court to test you. Right?

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (60:37)

Right.

David Jingres (60:38)

You are exposing yourself to being exposed unnecessarily.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (60:43)

The whole time, Laura is smiling and nodding along like she and Jingris are in on the same joke.

David Jingres (60:49)

And for you to go straight to court, you're either you are either pregnant or you're crazy. It's one or the other. If you're crazy. You know, at some point we're going to figure this out. I just. In eight months, I haven't seen it, and maybe I am. Maybe I am blind.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (61:03)

Most attorneys advise their clients to keep quiet. In this case, Laura's attorney is actually doing most of the talking and putting it on the Internet. I asked Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnick, about these videos.

Greg Woodnick (61:17)

It was bizarre. And colleagues would say to me, you know, what the fuck? And my response was, I don't know. I've never seen anything like this before. So if your question is how common this is, the answer is never. I've never seen this before. I can tell you the chorus of communications I have received from attorneys in this community has been unanimous regarding how unique their presentation has been on social media.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (61:49)

As you'll recall, after Judge Mata's ruling in the June 10 family court trial, she referred Laura's case to the county attorney, a woman named Rachel Mitchell, in One of these videos, Laura and Jingras address the criminal investigation and even joke about what might be on the horizon.

David Jingres (62:08)

You and I are on a journey together here. We're going to get there. We're going to get through. Hopefully Christmas. Laura, if, if Rachel Mitchell comes knocking, if the journey involves a stop through Rachel Mitchell territory, that's okay. You'll come out the other side. Donald Trump has been indicted four times. He's going to the White House. You know, I mean, anyway, it's Christmas time, people, and I just think it's time to move on, you know, I hope, I hope that Rachel Mitchell doesn't give you shiny new bracelets as your Christmas present.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (62:44)

On the next episode of Love Trapped, Laura was in for a rude awakening. She was about to find out how serious County Attorney Rachel Mitchell was. In January 2025, Laura got a knock on her door.

Dave Neal (62:58)

Laura, Scottsdale police.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (63:00)

And it wasn't even 7 o' clock in the morning.

Laura Owens (63:03)

I'm on the phone with my attorney. I'll put him on the phone right now. This is my attorney, David Tingris. My attention, attorney David Jenkress. I don't know who you guys are and it's not even 7. Do they have authority to search before 7 o' clock in the morning?

David Jingres (63:16)

The police are there, Laura.

Mike Maracini (63:18)

You need to let them do whatever they're gonna do.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (63:56)

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A five star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the LoveTrapped team or have a similar story to share, email us@lovetrappedpodmail.com that's lovetrapped podmail.com Lovetrapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iheart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Federman. Written, produced and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Producer on this episode is Sidney Gladue. Additional production support from Todd Ganz. Our production manager is Kristen Melkiri for iHeart podcasts. Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and Mastering by Anna McLean. Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Del Vecchio. Thank you to our voice actor, Leslie Tolley. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Leb Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love trapped theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music Library provided by MIB Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreincheck, Ali Kanter and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Cantu Advertiser (65:48)

Dryness is one of the biggest challenges for curly hair and many products they clock out after wash day. The new Ultra Moisture collection was literally designed with our hair in mind. Curls, coils, all of it powered by Botano oil and Jamaican Black Castor oil. Which means the science is actually doing the work. Clinically proven to help retain moisture for up to 5 days. This means non stop moisture for up to 5 days, whole days. The shampoo gently cleanses without stripping. The mask deeply conditions and helps reduce breakage. The leave in adds rich moisturization with hyaluronic acid and the curl cream wraps every curl in luxurious hydration with long lasting definition. No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones, no mineral oils, just nourishment without the compromise. Because here's the thing, your hair deserves products that actually understand it. Moisture that starts at the root and keeps going well past wash day. That's the Ultra Moisture Collection from Cantu. Explore their full line built for every curl pattern, every hair routine available now at Walmart. Go get it.

Inner Balance Advertiser (66:53)

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Bethenny Frankel (67:23)

That's innerbalance.com this is Bethenny Frankel from Just Be with Bethenny Frankel. Let me be blunt. Most dog food is junk. It just is. And I'm not feeding junk to Biggie and Smalls. That is why they eat just food for dogs. It's real 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. Not mystery pellets pretending to be healthy. And once I switched, the difference was obvious. Better digestion, better skin, more energy. Dogs who actually feel good instead of just surviving dinner. Here's the thing. You care about quality. You make an intentional choice to be healthy. So why are you gambling with your dog's health? So let's think about our furry babies. Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code. Just try it. Because once you see the difference, you're not going back.

Bobcat Advertiser (68:11)

This episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the game compact equipment industry through grit, determination, and a whole lot of think. We can't do that.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (68:20)

Watch us.

Bobcat Advertiser (68:21)

They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible. We've all been there with doubters telling us what we can't do. Who cares what they think? We don't need their permission or forgiveness. We just get things done. So go ahead and doubt me. Judge me, Challenge me. But when the time comes, watch me. Bobcat.

Narrator / Host (Stephanie Young) (68:48)

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.