A (5:36)

Oh, yeah, I was just completely flipping it.

B (5:40)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (5:43)

Oh, I really like that. I also. So I just want listeners to hear because they're. I love your sixth love language is growth. Because that is what people. I mean, they're listening to Love youe Life show, which is all about, like tips and tools to learn how to love your life more. And they are just gonna love that. They're like, yeah, that's my love language, the growth. And we get into trouble when we're hoping other people also have that same love language. In the same way we get into trouble with love languages. Like if my love language is words of affirmation and my husband's is acts of service, and I just keep wanting him to, you know, be fine with my words of affirmation, like, that's just, you know, hitting my head against a wall. And if I want my husband to have the love language of growth and self reflection and change, that's not so helpful in that moment. So tell me more about maybe what and what these doors are that we don't even want to walk into. Like, what are some of the conversation traps that you find us stepping into?

B (6:42)

Absolutely. So I tell you, you know, you. We can get into, you know, very deep with all five. So I'll just pick out the top three. So let's put the one that I kept walking into. Number one is, I called it the Groundhog Day trap door. Okay? And that one, AKA is you already know how this conversation is going to end. Trap. Okay, we already know. So the minute we begin the conversation, the minute those trigger words of bills, honey, how much money is in the account? You know, are you gonna pay this? You know, anytime I would get close to those words, and you already know what those words are, you know what they are, because your energy has paid the price for those words before. You already know what they are. So those trigger words, you don't have to do a lecture on those. Well, when I would enter into the Groundhog Day trap, I would pause because immediately I would say, I've been here before, I've already paid an energy price for this. Honey, you've got this. End of discussion. I didn't say anything else about it. I trained myself on these five phrases that go along with these door traps, these traps, and the triggers of the price that you've paid actually is going to set the trap off. And it is going to immediately go to a one phrase, just one single phrase. And I would tell my husband, I said, baby, you got this. And I would just walk away. Eventually, what happens is your spouse or partner or whoever it is, they begin to catch on. They said, wait a minute, what's going on. Something is happening here. And what I'm doing and what we're doing when we do this is, is we give that individual the space to do whatever it is that they need to do and the space to do whatever it is that you need to do because you think, oh, they're the ones that need to change. There was nothing wrong with my husband being a free bird. I'm a conventionalist in terms of, you know, Dave Ramsey's terms. They. There's nothing wrong with that. Right. I wanted him to change, to be a conventionalist. He's not about to change to be a condition. He's not. He's a freebird. He loves not asking what the price is. He's not interested in going down the budget and checking ahead of time. He's not. He's not going to do that. Asking to change his DNA. Okay, okay, as Mel Robinson, just let him live happily as a free bird. And in those areas where, you know, you do need to intersect, where you do need to come together, because there has to be time for collaboration. And let me say this, you're not giving up on the relationship because you're allowing silence to speak. What you're doing is, I begin to realize, and we have to realize that our words really aren't the things that change people in the first place.

A (10:21)

Place they are not. They're like. Good argument, Susie. No, that's not. Yep.

B (10:29)

It's not. No. What changes people is allowing people to see themselves in whatever it is that you're talking about and to see the value. Okay. In you all collaborating on it.

A (10:48)

Okay.

B (10:49)

That's what changes things. People have to see themselves and they have to see. See the value in whatever it is that, that you're talking about. And me continuing to talk. The Groundhog Day was not doing it. Yeah, well.

A (11:04)

And it's so interesting because it's like that's where I think a lot of women spend their brain power. And like you just said that you feeling this discomfort, you know, back seven years ago, you're feeling discomfort, so you went into self reflection on yourself and what you can do. And then our next step is sort of then to self reflect on them. Like, why is he a freebird? I wonder what about his past gets him in this? And we're like spending time in our head doing what they should be freaking doing for themselves. So that sort of like when you're saying the only reason people change is that they see themselves and they see value in it. I know so many listeners can resonate with this, that. That we might be able to see their patterns. And so then what are we doing? We're telling them, like, this is what you're doing, or this is because you have that issue with your mom, or this is because you were.

B (11:53)

Whatever.

A (11:54)

And then we're, like, forcing the value on them, which is. It doesn't feel good. So just. I really like. And I just want listeners to hear this because it really is like the let them theory at a gradual level where, like, we let them be them. Like, let them be them and then let you discuss what your thing is. So instead of trying to change them, change you and your reaction to what's going on and acceptance of who they are. Is that what I'm hearing?

B (12:22)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because, you know, and this is the other thing. When I. When I began to treat. Number one is. It's exhausting, right? It is exhausting. Okay. At the end of the day, what I began to realize, I started treating my conversations like money. Okay? I have these five traps. I begin to assign about a hundred dollars to each. Susie. So it's 500, let's say that I have to spend in energy a day, okay? And I literally one time took cash out, okay? And I said, okay, listen, if I'm going to keep going back and forth with you falling into this Groundhog day trap, this $100 needs to go. I just lost $100. Yeah. Just dollars. And this is very serious because I began to realize that once I started treating my energy, the energy connected to these conversations like money, and I freed myself up to be innovative. Baby, you've got this. You go do your thing. Then I went over financially. Now I did. I had to set up a separate financial system. I had to, you know, do a different type of budget, went ahead and set up the financial system that I kept trying to influence him, that I wanted him to be a part of. And that energy, it shifted my life 100%. I mean, I began to win awards at work. I began to, you know, people would say, let me nominate you for this. Not, I would like to be nominated for this award. But people began to see that I owned my energy. I owned the patterns of my conversation. I owned it. And when I began to own it, I then could begin to bank it. Okay? So it went into my bank role, and I had enough energy to retire at 51, debt free. I had enough energy to, you know, say, let me go now. Let me reach in this bank now. And now I can go have fun. I mean, we are giving away the power to produce the things that we are trying to convince other people that we want them, you know, to be a part of and to see. No. Keep that power. Yeah. So that's one that.

A (15:05)

Well, I want to. If. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just want to, like, this power that you. You've used it several times, and it's definitely coming up in my mind because I'm like, Yay, you, Dr. Hill. Like, yes, retire. And like, yes, take it on you. And. And it feels empowering when you're like, okay, this is the husband I have. This is his financial blueprint. You know, whatever our words are. And what do I do when. When we're in that place of like, oh, my gosh, he's not doing it my way, and I need to get him to see it this. And he's not doing, like, I want. And I. That's very disempowering. That's. We're putting all of our control out there on something, you know, this other human that we can't control. And instead, to come back to you of, okay, what can I control? So I guess I just want to get a little more granular with this specific example on finances, because I think that will help listeners, because it really is, you know, part of relationships is we. We get into these relationships with people where, you know, sort of our opposites attract. Like, we get attracted to that opposite energy. Like, I'm a very, like, go, go, go person. And my husband, I shared before the call, is like a meditation teacher. So initially I'm like, oh, that's so nice. And then what happens in the relationship is you then get annoyed, you know, and then you're like, oh, my God, why isn't he more like this? You know, so we go attract annoy. And then the final stage of that, like, maturity in our relationships is acceptable.

B (16:27)

It's like acceptance.

A (16:28)

This is the husband I have. He is more of a free bird, and I am more of a budget. So now what do we do with that? And so when we're looking at your finances in particular, and how this groundhog used to come up, is it that you would sit down and you would say, like. Like, just give me a little example of what that conversation would look like. What are the bills? And you're looking for him to do the budgeting, and he's looking for you to. I don't know.

B (16:58)

Exactly. So particularly in finances. Now, now, there's. You know, this is a touchy subject. Now, remember, still over 50% of marriages in because of finances.

A (17:08)

Oh, yeah.

B (17:09)

And because it is a day to day activities, in some cases, it's an hour to hour activity that folks have to visit every single week. And so we would sit down and I would say, you know, we have this amount of money. Let's say it's $5,000. Okay, what do we want to do this week with this money now? Let's say part of the money, if we got paid every two weeks, it didn't stretch.

A (17:41)

Okay?

B (17:42)

So the full, the full end of the week. So then we needed to make decisions with that budget about where did this money go? Do we prioritize this or do we prioritize that? I am a type person. Now, this is important. I am a type person who. I am comfortable and happy when all of the bills are paid. I don't have to have necessarily the excess fun. It's a discretionary matter. I'm good, I'm happy and it's fun to me if the bills are paid. Okay, listen to me, Susie, A lot of men are not going to hear that, okay? They need to have some fun as well as women. Right?

A (18:27)

It's just the type of. Right. It's like the opposites attract again. So let me guess that your husband doesn't find it so fun to have the spreadsheet where you're like, check it.

B (18:35)

Out, look at this. You know, I mean, now I was a different type of person. I've come out of that quite a bit, but I didn't have to have all that. And, and he sacrificed a lot as well. Now, I'm not saying he didn't. However, he believed in. When are we gonna live? I mean, we have got to live. You know, we have three children and so, well, they're, they're pretty much, you know, grown out of high school and college and all of that right now or. Or last year's in high school. And so that budget, you know, you're thinking, well, we've got to do this, this and this and all of these necessities. And looking at the budget saying, listen, the necessities are fine, but can we go golfing? What about some vacation time? Well, I had to realize, listen, I'm not going to treat this budget as an accountant, okay? What I had to start doing was taking the top three things, Susie. The top three things that must be done. Okay? I would say as long as these top three things are done, everything else we can work out. That was my.

A (19:48)

Yeah, yeah, okay.

B (19:50)

The top three things. And from there we began to just manage. Now I Still had to set up a different financial system for me at a shared budget that we worked with, and that's where we did the top three. And we moved from there with my budget, I decided I wanted to retire early, and so I needed to work to get out of debt, and da, da, da, da. And so I moved automated funds to a separate account, and from there, I just lived slimly. I drove a 2002.

A (20:21)

Yeah.

B (20:21)

Old Lexus car. I did whatever I needed to do to climb out of debt. And then I allowed my husband, though, after we finished those top three things, to live his life.

A (20:34)

Yeah. That's why I thank you so much for slowing down, because that's what I wanted. Right. That's what I wanted to hear. The. For the listeners to hear that, whether it's because finances is a big thing, but family is another big thing. Parenting is another big thing that we, you know, we get. These relationships are here to bring us together and then press us into that next level of growth. So whether it's finances or not, what I want listeners to hear Dr. Hill is saying is, like, you sort of go in and then you accept, like, this is the husband I have. This is the me I have. I am. I like fun this way. He likes fun this way. But what you said earlier in the conversation is you don't just abandoned the relationship. This sort of like, well, screw this, then. Let him do whatever, and I'm just gonna feel resentful and pissed and over. No, you sort of. You stopped, you took a break, you backed up and. And chose, like, what is important to me. Okay, these three things. What is important to him? These. And. And then, you know, in terms of. We're talking finances. That is something that helps a lot of people, like, you sort of have that. Okay, here's your budget for fun. You don't get to do all the fun things, just like Dr. Hill doesn't get to do all the, you know, budgeting of every single family expense. But that's where I just want listeners to hear and thank you for going through that experience where it's like, both people are still being considered.

B (21:53)

It's.

A (21:54)

And it's actually so much kinder in the relationship that it's not that one is better than the other or worse than the other. It's just like both are. And how do we get out of these groundhog conversations? By coming at it.

B (22:07)

And.

A (22:07)

And I guess the final piece of that is. Is your power phrase with that conversation. There is. You've got this babe. So what would happen Is. Would he say something like, I don't know how I'm gonna stretch my 500 to do my golfing and my Bermuda and my this and you got this.

B (22:23)

Yeah, see, that is not. That's not.

A (22:27)

You're not going to over function anymore. You're not.

B (22:29)

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not overextending your energy. No, no, no, no. I am excited. Here's. And let me tell you, the hinge on the door here was the hinge. I learned. What you complain about, you lose grace for. The hinge on the door that swings either to dissension or to peace in the house is. Stop talking about it. Stop talking about what you are doing on the other side. Working your budget. And it was hard. It was hard. It really was. It was just exhausting.

A (23:11)

Very hard. Because I want them to hear this. Stop talking. Look at how wonderful I am. I budgeted. I'm doing this and I'm doing that. Yes.

B (23:22)

Stop it. Just quit. Because, remember, you know, like I said, I. I would have to look at the. The family budget, you know, and. And he would too, to a certain extent, in terms of just keeping the money flow coming in. Listen, these are good, amazing partners. I'm not talking about narcissists, abusers, or crazy people.

A (23:43)

Doing it different. I think that's what I'm hearing.

B (23:46)

We're just doing things differently. And so we if talking about it. Continuing to talk about the issue, number one, is it drains the energy, the much needed energy, the money energy that you need to spend to make it happen. It drains that. And then number two, don't even talk about what you're doing on the other side of the door. Don't even talk about it.

A (24:15)

Keep that door closed. Don't go in there. Yeah.

B (24:18)

The only face that they need to see on the other side is you've got this. And I mean this in a loving, real, genuine way. I. One of the things I also did in my relationship, and I do it now, is I created touch points. There's a certain, like, my husband's very busy. I have touch points. Particularly during those tension times when he was seeing money disappear out of the account because I'm needing to pay certain things down. I made sure that I touched him, just rubbed his back.

A (24:56)

Oh, so literal touch points.

B (24:57)

Yeah, touch points. Physical touch points. Just, you know, it. It does a couple of things when you're saying these phrases with these traps. They understand that you're not being cynical. You're not being, you know, you know, thankfulness behind it. You need to touch your partner just gently throughout the day just to reassure them that things are going well while you are on the other side. Susie. Getting busy.

A (25:27)

Yeah. You're doing it your way and it's. And I love the touching because that like if anyone is in a more long standing relationship, they're probably used to like you may be saying like, oh, it's okay, fine, and going off and doing it your way, but having those feelings of resentment and pissiness and irritation that he's not doing it your way. And instead when you bring this new Dr. Hill there and you're saying like, no, I'm going to learn and accept you for who you are. Accept me for who I am, there isn't a better or worse. And I'm going to touch you to. It's going to calm his nervous system. You know, with all the work that I do on somatic healing where it's like, it actually is like putting the truth behind the words. It's like you've got this babe and you weren't like, you've got this baba. You know, it's like you've got this babe. Like, and it's not my job to figure out how you've got it or to over function in this way or to like, you've got it. And then you, with your amazing brain, Dr. Hill, you let him have it. Like let him get it. Let him figure it out. Let him. I really like that a lot.

B (26:34)

Yes, yes. Be yourself for yourself. Yes. To breathe to and to. And to do. Live your dreams. Live your dreams.

A (26:42)

Well, free and free the relationship too. To not be in this like better or worse or right or wrong or good or bad. Like who's which? What's the right way to do it? There's a right way for Dr. Hill and there's a right way for Dr. Hill's husband. And it's like drop this whole. That's what happens when we're doing too much talking. Like that hinge on the door when we're trying to explain ourselves and explain why our way is the right way. And, and it, it just again, as you said, the other person isn't going to change their mind. They're, they're like, oh, good idea, honey. But what do they end up feeling? You know, for men, a lot of it is like emasculated. Like they're being treated like a child. It's not good for the relationship. So to just shut them out. Can you give us an example of another conversation trap? Because this is like so enticing to me.

B (27:31)

My gosh, here's number two. So probably the one that everyone talks about is, I call it the yes trap. In the book, people call it people pleasing, you know, but I call it the yes trap. And so this trap, Sissy, is. Number one. Be honest with yourself about people who you know you are not going to say no to. First off, let's go ahead and let's just be honest, okay? You are not going to tell aunt Sallie Mae when she asks you for to do something. You're not going to just outright say no, Aunt Sallie Mae, I'm not going to do it. So adjust your brain. Set the expectations that we need to say yes to people differently. Okay? Number one is there is a group of people that you know already have your love, your affection, your yeses, and your energy. So don't get upset with yourself by saying, why did I say yes to them? Why did I say yes? No, no. Just go ahead, write down who they are. I already know my folk who have one. They have 100 of me. The 10 of the 100 that I'm going to give to them. Yeah, they have.

A (28:53)

Perfect.

B (28:55)

Okay, they have it. And so set that expectation and say, I've got to learn to say yes differently. That means that if there is something big. Okay, Aunt Sally Mae, listen, the answer is yes, but can we do this on Thursday? On Tuesday, you know, the answer is yes. You know Uncle Bob, Absolutely. But, you know, can. Can. Can we not, you know, like, I have a relative. He loves, like, veggies, right? Love sweet potatoes, you know, and he's like, can you go get 100 sacks of sweet potatoes? Well, you know, I have time for 30, maybe not 100. I bring 30. You know, it's setting that expectation first. And then the second thing about the yes trap is realizing that this is not your time necessarily to give away to other people. Susie, you have a call. I'm a spiritual person. There are things in your life that you must do. I said, shonda, there are things that you must do before you die. Okay? It's a must. Yeah. Okay, with that. There is a call for me to do that. It is not for me to give that time from that particular call. Okay. That personally, I believe that. That God has said to me, you need to do this. It is not for me to tell him no. And you. Yes, right, yeah.

A (30:42)

That responsibility of, like, listening. Yes, yes.

B (30:47)

There is a. You know, I believe in the Creator. I said, you know what? I've got to fulfill this call. And so that yes. Trap is really understanding that this schedule really does not belong to me. I have to. It belongs to the call that is calling me out there to fulfill it before I die. I cannot give this time away to you. Okay. Because you woke up yesterday and realized you needed sweet.

A (31:16)

Exactly. Yeah. So I. I guess I'm hearing two things here that are helpful. Like, one, you're considering one. People know your people, like, no, you know, like, if this is, you know, Uncle Bob or, you know, for me, one of my sons or what, like, it's like, I'm going to be a yes. Not I. Like, also how you said, like, 10% of my 100%. It's not. I'm just completely slain. But it's like, yes, I will be inclined to say, even if it's something I don't want to do, I don't feel like going to do sweet potatoes. So we're going to consider that, but we're also considering us, like, yes, I'll go get your sweet potatoes, even though I don't want to. But can we do it on Tuesday? You know, yes. I'll get together to talk to you about the thing that you've been complaining about for 15 years, Aunt Sallie Mae, even, you know, because I love you, but can we do it at coffee on Saturday? So bringing yourself into that equation is helpful. And the other part I'm hearing from you is this spiritual side that we have a call or responsibility, or if someone is not feeling very spiritual on this call, just knowing that that inner you, that inner you that has this, you know, when. When you're initially asked, like, can you go get 50 bags of sweet potatoes? That first instinct that's like, listen to that. And you have a responsibility to your inner self. If for no other reason, because if you don't pay attention to that inner self, you're going to be a snotty, pissy little lady on the other side of that door. And so that's the part to listen in and. And honor that in ourselves and in the experience is what I'm hearing from you.

B (32:51)

Absolutely. And I. I see so many people, they are frustrated when. And what. When you continue to talk and peel back the layers of a lot of people's frustration, in some cases, it is because they have lived somebody else's life all of their lives. Yeah, they have lived a yes life. But that yes is somebody else's life. You are not living your life when you are consistently saying yes to everyone else's schedule, yes to everyone else's dreams, yes to everyone else's desires. You've got it. Yeah.

A (33:31)

What about you? I mean that, that is like one of the top regrets of the dying. And unfortunately that's also one of the things we most praised for as women being those selfless, needless, wantless, like, you know, this whole like, oh, I, I've heard people before at the funeral be like, she just did everything for everyone. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, can we stop having that be the thing, the meter on which we're like praising people that she completely abandoned everything about her to take care of Uncle Bob's potatoes. Like, no. Yeah.

B (34:08)

Yes. So that's the yes trap. And it's, it's beautiful. Like I said, people call it people pleasing, whatever the terminology might be, But I call it that particular door when someone comes to you and they want you to do something, you know, for them, with them, it's important to train our brains that number one, okay, who is this? Are they in the category where they're getting a hundred percent of the 10 that I have allotted to this people? And then number. And then just number two, what purpose call? What part of me am I giving up that later on in life I'm going to regret? And that could be tomorrow. Later on in life, what piece of me am I giving away that is not creating the whole part of me that's that that takes away from me showing up as my whole self, you know, a year now, five years from.

A (35:08)

Now, five minutes from now.

B (35:09)

Five minutes. Yes.

A (35:12)

I really appreciate that. I know I didn't even realize this is one of the messages I gave to my kids, but my son just applied for something and he shared in the interview, he said, well, my mom always said if when you say yes to something, you say no to something else. And I was like, okay.

B (35:30)

I don't.

A (35:30)

Know if I always said that, but good, because I was living a people pleaser life for a while. But that point there of just recognizing everything has, you know, a payoff. So we might in the moment feel better because Uncle Bob is so happy because he got us 50 bags of potatoes. But how are we feeling in five minutes and five years, in 10 years at the end of our lives, that, that's just beautiful.

B (35:53)

Yeah. Yes. You got time for one more? If you want one more, we can go for it. If not.

A (35:58)

I think I want people. I'm like so eager. I, I'm in Australia and I can't get books easily in Australia. Amazon Australia is like very ridiculous. So I, I have a whole list of books that I get the next time I visit the States. But I really want listeners to get your book. So I think let's leave them hanging. Let's. I'm sorry, listeners, but, like, this is magical. I've read enough of your work to know that it's an amazing book to get that they can get it on Amazon, unless they're in Australia, then they can be with me. And I actually also put a request into the local library to get it because that's sometimes how I get them easier. They'll grab it. But yeah, I would, I would love to just tell listeners where they can find the book, where they can find more about you and, and learn that third thing. I'm leaving them hanging.

B (36:45)

I love that. I love that about you. Well, of course it's out there on Amazon and it's in all formats. They can also get it in audiobook. And the best thing about this is it takes only about 35 minutes to read. It's a very short read. So they can get it out there. Also, I have a small store on my Instagram and that's Shonda Allen Hill, and so they can find me there.

A (37:09)

Okay, I will put those links listeners below. When you're scrolling through the show notes, just look below. It'll be like the, the hyperlinked letters in there. And I love it. And I do want to emphasize that, you know, Dr. Hill, it's not a long book, but the, the, the whatever the transaction is in the action, like, you will have the benefit if you do something. So can you give the listener who's listening and wants a little bit of inspiration to maybe try either to step out of one of these traps, like if they're feeling they don't want the groundhog anymore or the people pleaser, like, what? Because it is a little uncomfortable the first time you say to your spouse or your parent or whoever you're trying to step out of these things steps to say like, you've got it, babe. Or to say like, yes, but could we meet Saturday? What?

B (37:56)

What?

A (37:56)

How can you fill them up, Gary? It's so scary.

B (38:02)

It, you know, it can be. But I will say this. You know, number one is that it is in. It is in the listeners. It is in your DNA. It is in your DNA to succeed and to be the real you. To not cheat this earth, not cheat this world. On being a half person living somebody else's life. It is in your DNA. It's your inheritance. It is what you're supposed to do. The other thing I would say is that to every listener these traps point to one major thing and that is sometimes we don't believe that we are enough. We are enough. We don't have to keep talking. We don't have to keep expressing ourselves. We don't have to keep giving more of ourselves than we have. That's banked, okay, by saying yes to people, trying to get them accept you more or you know, repeating ourselves trying to get someone to understand you heard of you more.

A (39:05)

They don't need to.

B (39:06)

They don't need to. You are enough. Breathe it in. Don't walk through these doors. Don't fall into the traps and live your best life, okay?

A (39:23)

I'm going to marinate on that. Love your life school listeners like, I mean, how great. Thank you, Dr. Hill. It just really feels like a love bath. Thank you. Get her book, people. Okay, thank you.

B (39:36)

Thank you.