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Love Your Life Show: Personal Growth, Mindset, + Habits for Busy Moms
How to Break Free from the Habit of Solving Other People’s Problems
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- [00:01]
Leah Marone
Why?
- [00:01]
Susie Pettit
Hello listeners. I have the author of the new book Serial Fixer. Break Free from the Habit of Solving Other People's Problems on the show. Sound good? I love it. Leah Marone is a psychotherapist and Yale clinical instructor with over two decades on the front line of personal growth for high achieving women, especially those wrestling with perfectionism and anxiety and the urge to fix everyone else's problems. You're going to love this episode. We dive into it. Her approach is deeply rooted in practicality and mindfulness which aligns perfectly with me as a mindful cognitive coach. She has led more than 20,000 therapy sessions. She has seen in real time the toll that burnout and people pleasing can take on individuals managing households and careers. You're going to love this story. She's been on many asked us talk on many different things like Psychology Today, Newsweek, the Atlantic and now we have her on the Love youe Life Show. So listen and you're going to love this conversation. Hi, this is the Love youe Life show with Susie Pettit, certified life and wellness coach. Join Susie as she helps you with your wellness and mindset so you can live a life you love. Let's go warriors. All right, Leah, thank you so much for coming on the Love youe Life Show. I am thrilled that you are here and that you can help my listeners and myself. I wanted to start right away. You have a book that by the time this releases it will be out so everyone can get their hands on it. And the title, you had me at the title girl. And the title is Serial Fixer Break Free from the Habit of Solving Other People's Problems. And I just was like, yes, please. So welcome. And can you explain a little about what a serial fixer is? Oh, yes.
- [02:08]
Leah Marone
And there's so many layers to serial fixing. Right. But I think a serial fixer is someone who again has a high level of emotional intelligence, is typically able to read a room non verbals very quickly. They might be the secret keeper within their friend group, their family. They lead with a lot of empathy and compassion. They tend to be five steps ahead. And they also place themselves in the role of the fixer or the solver. So this could be in conversations in relationships and it's generally fueled by kind of this need to, you know, soothe, to fix, to be connected, to please, to not let people down and also like the critic within them, constantly at them saying, you know, if you don't do this then you're probably not a good parent. If you don't do this, then you're probably not a good partner. If you don't do this, then you're probably not a good leader. And so you can see this critical kind of nudge that's constantly, you know, fueling us to work really hard and take kind of false ownership or stock in other people's hurdles and struggle struggles rather than just being that supporter. It's the recipe for exhaustion.
- [03:16]
Susie Pettit
Oh, for sure. Exhaustion would be. Well, yeah, I guess that would be helpful. Like, if someone is sort of like, hi, I wonder if I'm the serial fixer, how might they know if they are this fixer? Especially if they've always viewed themselves as sort of helpful or caring.
- [03:33]
Leah Marone
Yeah. And it does. It comes from a good place like it is. It's a way we kind of associate love and caring and, you know, and nurturing, which, again, it is. But you can see too, that it almost like if we can structure and fill a role externally and kind of work really, really hard at that, it pulls us away from sometimes the work that we need to do internally. And it also, you know, is just this perpetual cycle of urgency and being two or three steps ahead. And so we enter roles or, I'm sorry, conversations with this view that, oh, well, I need to give them advice. I need to soothe, I need to fix. Not only will this make me feel purposeful, but it's also going to deepen our connection. Right. But oftentimes serial fixers are working so hard at their relationships, but there's like a disconnect. They're not necessarily feeling fulfilled, and sometimes it leads to resentment because these relationships are highly imbalanced.
- [04:35]
Susie Pettit
Yes, I am. I'm. I'm just nodding along and I like. I'm like, there's so many things here. I. What stuck out to me is where you were talking about, you know, when we're looking to them, like, externally being good enough. Am I a good enough mom? Does that person think I'm good enough as a mom, as a partner, as a employee, as a. And then you said, you know, where it's an internal job. And can you speak a little to that?
- [05:04]
Leah Marone
Yeah, it is. I mean, I think a lot of times we're looking for that external validation of. And, you know, we have these associations oftentimes that if I'm not kind of working and stressed and doing all that I can at every moment of the day that I am, I'm not good enough. I'm probably not executing my role the way that I should be. And you'll see this oftentimes in Parenting, you know, like where your child might have the sigh or the look of distress or just like, oh, and immediately our fixer mode kind of goes into like overdrive where we're like, well let's do this. Well, let's do this. How about this? What if we do that? And so you start to go into this fixer solar role to alleviate that, but also confirm for yourself like this is what good moms do. If my child is under distress, if my child is feeling anything hard or negative, I must not be doing my job.
- [05:55]
Susie Pettit
Yes. So how do we start doing something different there? Like, because what I'm hearing from you is we're, I mean that's like the worst case scenario ever is to be looking to our teenagers for our self worth. Having raised my kids and it's like that is, you know, they're gonna sigh and they're gon roll their eyes. And I know as a mom I was, oh, I would always be in a very, it felt very uncomfortable to me if, if I was so connected to their opinion of me like that they think I'm doing the wrong thing by taking their cell phone, you know, at night or taking, not letting them any of these things. So how, how do you help people shift from this, needing that, you know, it's sort of outside of themselves. Like they're sort of emotionally outsourcing and external validation into that more internal place.
- [06:49]
Leah Marone
Yes, it is. And I think really it's, it takes repetitions, it takes, you know, just like we physically get in shape, we have to get a lot of repetitions with this mentally and emotionally and we're working on something, we're working on shifting something. And really it's about first that data collection and, and really being aware of how do I show up in interactions like am I immediately without validating the person, without asking maybe a follow up question, without saying maybe tell me more, am I already jumping to assumptions maybe where I have a deficit and I didn't do something correctly and now this person is in this position or you know, already doing the processing skills prematurely for this person, giving them advice over, you know, relating prematurely like all of these things. If you're jumping into those steps right out of the gate to oftentimes soothe your own discomfort, that's a really good indicator and it takes practice, but that's a really good indicator that you can shift from that supporter rather than that solver. And the way that you start doing that is first and foremost to start by validation. And what I mean by validation is letting that person, whether it's your teenager or your partner or friend, let them know that you are trying to decode the message that they are sharing verbally and non verbally. And that can come in many forms. That can come with a head nod, as you're doing now. That can come with eye contact. That could come with a sigh. That could come with. That seems like a lot that could come with paraphrasing, but just you pausing and keeping that ownership with that person and letting them know that you're working collaboratively and not grabbing their tangled ball of yarn and trying to untangle it in front of their very eyes.
- [08:36]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, I really.
- [08:37]
Leah Marone
Yeah.
- [08:38]
Susie Pettit
So I like that. I what I'm hearing you say is we need to slow it down. I've, you know, done a lot of work with and a lot of my listeners have had some childhood trauma or some, you know, more complex, just maybe not the big T, but like just complex experiences of consistent needing to pay attention to other people, maybe being in that hyper vigilant place. And so of course our nervous system is going to be ignited pretty quickly when someone maybe thinks we aren't being a good enough mom or a good enough. And so the slowing it down is something I'm hearing you say to start small and to not discount just the general awareness and learning, you know, that one can get from listening to conversations like this, from reading your book and to start, you know, not paying so much attention to them. But what are we thinking? What are, how do we interact in relationships? And is what I'm hearing you say, did I get that right?
- [09:40]
Leah Marone
Absolutely. That was very well said. And I think, you know, thinking about too, like, are we taking the bait? And what I mean by that is, you know, let's say someone says, like I have an example actually from someone I was working with a few years ago. I remember her coming into my office and saying, you know, my husband, we're getting ready for Christmas and we're pulling out all the Christmas decorations and he opens a box and he pulls out this ornament that, you know, we use as a decoration outside. And he says, do these need batteries? And she said, of course they do. And they. And we didn't have any. So I had to go run to the store, I had to go do this. Then I forgot this and I had to go back, came back, put the batteries in, start hanging. And he's the whole time just sitting on the couch. I mean, can you believe that? And I said, well, you actually didn't answer the question. And she kind of looked at me really like shocked and she said what do you mean? I said, well, he asked you if there were battery if these take batteries and you immediately jumped to step 17 and filled in every crack and crevice and made all these assumptions and took ownership. It did not meet him. And the question where it was and she goes, oh my God, I totally did. And so I said, what if you could rewind and if he said do these needs batteries? And you just answered with a yes or no and paused and left the ownership with him. And the decision to maybe ask a follow up question or for him to activate and look to see if you have batteries and to kind of, I mean you took it all from him and then you can see where that builds resentment. There you go.
- [11:04]
Susie Pettit
I was going to say you took it all from him and then we're pissed at him.
- [11:07]
Leah Marone
Yeah, then you're pissed.
- [11:08]
Susie Pettit
That's hard to hold. I think for, you know, I know that has been for me where like for me to see my responsibility in the pattern where because it's like him saying does this need batteries? I immediately would have that nervous system reaction like okay, someone needs, you know, something. And I, as you said, you know, you're 17 steps ahead and you're already there. And you had said that earlier too about being five steps ahead of people. And I, I think listeners, I, I want to bring focus to that again so we don't over skip that because that is, that is one of the things to look out for. You know, if someone says I'm hungry or you know, your spouse says I'm stressed. Like we're spending more time in our head solving their problems and figuring out their lives. And her mom calls and says she's lonely. You know, we're the ones googling the bridge clubs or the running, dropping what we're doing and running over there and just having some awareness of that and starting to just slow it down a little, which could be as simple as you said, is just taking a breath. Like just for me. I had this mantra when I was recovering from this. I'm still recovering, but, but I just talk less, say less, talk less, listen more. Like, you know that you have one mouth, two ears. And then I would just sort of close my lips and just really try. Like in my head I'd be saying all the things and, but just trying to get back to safety in my system because they might be struggling. I mean we are busy people and we have people in our lives that we care about. But again, is it a problem that, like being that serial fixer, you know, is it my problem to fix or is it something that they are able to fix themselves? Or another thing you said is support don't solve. Like can we support there? Can we? Instead of jumping in and running to get the batteries and feeling resentful, exhausted and like nobody gets you.
- [13:11]
Leah Marone
Yeah. And you think like I'm trying so hard. I'm, I'm doing X, Y and Z. And why is this not working? Why is, you know, I just, I'm craving closeness, I'm craving intimacy, I'm craving all these things and it's not happening and what gives? And it's confusing. And you can see where that resentment really starts to build. And then we're critical of that. And so it is, it's, it's kind of like how can I still lead with empathy and still lead with that compassion and that love, but just really, you know, meet the situation, the person where they're at and support to solve you and you nailed it.
- [13:46]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. This is. Listeners will be familiar with my popcorn parenting approach. Or I talk about lovingly detached, but that, that I might link some of those episodes below. But this is, you know, really the, the Breaking the urge that you speak about in your, you know, subtitle. Break free from the habit of solving other people's problems. Problems. I guess you don't say Breaking the urge. I think you said that as you were talking about having a, you know, helping people with that urge because it feels so important in the, you know, with if the husband is like, do these need batteries? It's like you're at the store before you realize what you're doing, you know, or the kid says they're hungry and you're, you know, oh, you don't have the bars. I like, like I'm online ordering them or getting, you know, like before I even realize this isn't a two year old that is going to starve if I don't get the bars that he likes. So that sort of fixing the urge is really important. And I guess what I hear you saying is that it is work worth doing. Even though it feels hard in the moment, the reason why we're doing it, because then we're going to feel better. It feels bad in the moment, but if we don't do it, then we're going to feel exhausted, resentful, irritated, frustrated. You know, I felt all those things over functioning. We're just. And I guess could you speak a little about this loneliness that we can feel of that you spoke A little bit about, like, feeling like nobody really gets me. Like, we might think that, oh, we're so helpful and we're creating this connection in our relationships. And yet what I see in my clients and myself is a feeling of disconnect and that feeling of like, nobody understands everything I do or the. The unappreciated. Is that something I've seen or you can.
- [15:37]
Leah Marone
Absolutely. It is. It's kind of creating these micro codependencies, and it's really fueling, like, these very rigid, powerful associations we have where it's like, if I don't get the bars for my child, if I don't do this, I don't have all these things in stock that they like. Then again, it's fuels. That critic kind of pops up and it fuels that association of like, well, then you're not a good enough moment. Like, you're not doing your job, like, you're failing. And that's so rigid. And you can see where, like, we get in our head and we fuel kind of that negative self talk pattern, those false narratives. And it really does. It pulls us away sometimes because we're so busy getting sucked into that and we're extending and overextending and we're doing and we're doing and we're doing it. It kind of sometimes gets in the way of us really capitalizing on some of those moments when there are. That is time for connection. We're so in our head, we're so, you know, critical. We're so. And it does. It kind of pulls away from those moments where they might be intimate, they might be a deep sense of connection, they might be a beautiful moment, and we just can't be present. So there is.
- [16:39]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. And it feels so uncomfortable. I remember fairly recently, one of my sons was applying for a job and he didn't get it, and he came home. And my instinct was to be like, well, you know, you can get an interview here. You can do like I want. I wanted to get into that, fix it, the solve.
- [16:55]
Leah Marone
And.
- [16:56]
Susie Pettit
And I overrode that instinct. I rode out my urge and I just said, oh, that sounds really hard. Like, you must, like, what are you feeling right now? And we had the nicest conversation. And it was, you know, everything they say about boys not being in touch with their emotions. Like, he was. He was able to say he felt really disappointed. He was disappointed himself. He wished that he had done a little more research about the company ahead of time. And it was a really nice connecting relationship. So there was that from sort of My mom heart filling up. And then later, what ended up happening is he went out, he did do some of the due diligence that he recognized in himself, because he sort of paused and was like, okay, what did I. You know, why? Maybe he took some responsibility for it, and then he got a job. And he then had the experience of feeling pride. Like, I went out, I did it, I persevered. And it wasn't like a mom handed this other interview to me, like, because that's sometimes what. When we're in that fixing mode, we're stealing their own, you know, journey. I say, like, the dignity of their experience, that. Them having that hardship. So we're stealing from us that possible connection, and then we're stealing from them the opportunity to, like, what feels really good in life is going through some of these hardships and then persevering. And that. That pride is one of my favorite emotions to feel. Like, look at me. I didn't get the job. And I still went out and did these other three interviews and got that. So I think that's important to look at.
- [18:28]
Leah Marone
What an amazing example. I mean, Susie, you executed beautifully with your son, because you did. You. You approached and you, like, validated. You created that space. It was collaborative. You weren't trying to grab ownership or stock. He felt that he was able to open up. He. He was able to explore, collect his own data. He was able to learn from it, execute. I mean, and like you said, he went through, like, this whole process and he had ownership the whole time, but he felt your support. Support.
- [18:57]
Susie Pettit
It's that support, not solving. And. Yes. And the only reason I could do that is because I haven't done that so many other times before then. And so I did my own responsibility. And I guess the point I don't want to skip over is how uncomfortable it felt to me physically in the moment. And. And what you were speaking to is, you know, like, if I had gotten done with that conversation and I didn't, there was no. Like, when we ended it, he wasn't. Like, he was still feeling disappointed and. And really upset at sort of the world. Like, he was in a negative energy of all these jobs and blah, blah, blah. So I. I didn't, you know, I didn't see what was happening in the future, and I could have gone to be like, well, is that the. Am I a good mom? Like a good mom? Should you? Because we get in our head lessons we need to teach our kids and all that. Which again, is back to what you're saying is that and I like. And that's another episode I will link below called Manual Work where we have sort of these instruction books of like, what it means to be a good mom or what it means to be a good wife or. And we often outsource that to someone. Like, if I am putting in my son's hand what it means to be a good mom, like he might have thought a good mom would then go call my friend who. Who works at the restaurant and get him a job.
- [20:10]
Leah Marone
Fine.
- [20:10]
Susie Pettit
But then I lose all my control and it's completely. So I like to define for me what makes a good mom. And listening to people like you that have, you know, the research and the knowledge and it's like, okay, no, that, like, even though it feels physically uncomfortable, this actually is the helpful thing for me to do in this moment, to not pass down this codependent patterning.
- [20:35]
Leah Marone
Absolutely.
- [20:35]
Susie Pettit
Could we a little. And could you.
- [20:37]
Leah Marone
Sure.
- [20:38]
Susie Pettit
Speak a little about. You have a couple terms that you talk about that I love. Emotional hangovers and compassion fatigue. Or either of those, if you could explain a little more.
- [20:47]
Leah Marone
Because I. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, emotional hangovers, I think, you know, when we think of hangover, we think of overindulging in something, maybe having a wild night, and then we have this hangover effect. Right. And I think we have to remember that we can also have emotional hangovers. And what I mean by that is, you know, when we. There's things that, you know, will really challenge us, like whether it's difficult weeks, difficult chapters, difficult days, hours. And we do sometimes have to suppress certain things to stay focused, to stay in the game. And sometimes if we're not aware of kind of clearing out our own clutter and acknowledging that, like, wow, I had to really maintain focus. I had to suppress X, Y and Z to get through that. That was a lot of work that was taxing. You know, let me clear some of that out, validate, acknowledge myself and maybe do some work that I needed to back then. If we don't do that, we will have this kind of hangover effect. And maybe an example is like, if your in laws come to town, and you may love your in laws, but maybe that's a very triggering, taxing visit. And you have to kind of be on your A game in a certain way. You have to suppress certain things. It's just, it's a lot of energy and you may feel like that was a great visit that went really well, that's great. And they leave and you have this like one wave of anxiety and you're exhausted and you're like, what is happening? They're. They're gone. It was a good visit. Why am I an anxious mess? Why am I feeling so out of sorts? Why am I exhausted? And that right there is kind of that hangover effect where things that you maybe had to suppress and kind of really keep in check, it's your brain's way of clearing out that clutter. And so I like to really. It's uncomfortable, but I like to normalize that to some degree. It's almost like when you're really sore after intense workout. You know, you worked really hard and the next day you're like, oh my gosh, it's really hard for me to sit on the toilet. And that's like that your muscles are fatigued, they're working through something. And that's the hangover effect. And we can have those emotionally as well.
- [22:40]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. And I think we're so quick to do what you said, like gaslight ourselves and just be like, why are you upset? It was a fine visit. Nothing happened. Like your father in law didn't do that thing. Instead of meeting ourselves with compassion and, and saying, you know, why are you feeling this way? Well, let's, let's actually look. Why might some. Well, because you were holding it together the whole time. Because you were sort of on edge and to turn towards ourselves instead of against ourselves again. You do a lot of work on the inner critic and those inner voices. And I think recognizing here where there might be that voice inside of us that's not helping us. It's like, why are you so upset? It's like, okay, could we be a little more of like, okay, you are so upset. How do we support you? Very. Because that's another thing I could have said to my son with the job. I could have said, well, why are you so upset? Like, you didn't, you know, look at what you're wearing or like, why are you so upset? There are other jobs to get. Like, it's easier to see sometimes when we're doing it outside of ourselves, but to keep when we're doing it inside and to see, you know, we're like, it's over, get over it. Like, that's really not kind.
- [23:45]
Leah Marone
It's not. And there's this fear sometimes that it's like, is this just how it's going to be? Like, does anyone else experience this? What is wrong with me? I should have my stuff together. I'm in my 30s or my 40s or my, you know, it's like, yeah, it's so critical and it's very rigid and all or nothing thinking. And a lot of, you know, my patients that I work with, I try to. We really, we talk about, like, finding the gray. Like, you know, don't get into that black or white thinking that all or nothing. It's so rigid. And you got to play fair and, you know, you really need to find the gray. And if you have that critic inside of you that is just gnawing at you and the chatter is so loud, it's like really asking yourself and that part of you, what are you trying to protect me from? You're sending me 10 bodyguards when I only need one. Like, what is the deal? What is this protection? Level of protection. And really then soothing that part of you, working with it and finding that gray and moving out of that rigidity, it's so helpful.
- [24:38]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. Because what do you find? They're like, they're trying to protect themselves from, like you said, there's. They're sending 10 protectors over. What is it there?
- [24:47]
Leah Marone
Yeah. So that. That critical voice, you know, inside of us, or our inner critic or inner pleaser, all of that, you know, they're trying to protect us generally from things that collectively humans, we don't like to feel. Right. We don't like to feel, like, incompetent, we don't like to feel embarrassed, we don't like to feel failure, we don't like to feel shame, we don't like to feel lonely.
- [25:06]
Susie Pettit
Like, if we're that example with the in laws or anything.
- [25:09]
Leah Marone
Yeah, absolutely. So it's just these protective parts of us. And generally they'll come in that form of the critic or the pleaser or the rescuer. They are working incredibly hard to protect us from feeling any of those things. Things. And oftentimes again, I have to check in with myself where I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. My critic again, is sending me 10 bodyguards when I only need one. And let's really understand, like, why is my critic working so hard and how can I start to kind of soothe it and fact check the situation and pull from resilience rather than getting sucked into this vortex.
- [25:41]
Susie Pettit
Well, and, and you said at one point, let's play fair. I really like that too. From a standpoint of like, let's be honest, you know, when we're like, why are you so, you know, anxious now? Or why are you feeling so exhausted? It was a fine visit. It's like, okay, can we be a little truthful, like, some radical honesty here with like, and because we do have those protective parts so we don't feel the emotions and it's like let's just be it like maybe. Yeah. Actually when I pause and take some breaths I realize I felt a little disconnected and it felt like I didn't enjoy that as much as I wanted to. This isn't exactly what I wanted or that I just was really on edge or you know, just letting being more honest there with or I don't want to have to work so hard when my in laws are over any of them. We don't necessarily. I find that a lot of us over functioners are reluctant to feel the emotion because then we feel like we have to do something. You know, like just noting maybe that when the in laws were there you felt lonely or you felt disconnected. Over functioners right away are gonna be like, okay, so then what like what's this three step plan to like instead of just being like maybe that like can I just sit with that for like right here, right now? There's no race like right now. Okay, good to know. Thank you body. Like I'm feeling disconnected in this relationship. What if I don't have to do anything about like. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
- [27:04]
Leah Marone
I mean you're absolutely right. It's like if you wake up in the morning and your calf is tight, you know, your calf muscles tight, do you immediately rush to the error? I hope not. I hope you kind of think about like ooh, maybe I slept weird mob really awesome workout I had yesterday. Maybe I need new shoes. You know, you start to kind of think about but you like see if your body just, it works itself out as you get up and start moving and if it's something where it gets more severe, it's more intense day after day, then you're like, okay, maybe I should take some more measures. Same with our emotions. I mean things are fleeting. Sometimes we feel this wave of something and to your point, we don't have to necessarily sound all the alarm bells and be like what's wrong with me? This is just it. I'm doomed.
- [27:42]
Susie Pettit
See, I knew it would turn.
- [27:43]
Leah Marone
It's more just like, like noted data I collected. Let me see if there's a pattern here. Let me, you know, be gentle with myself. Maybe do a little extra, you know, recovery here and there and just see what happens. It's not all or nothing.
- [27:56]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, so I would love because I had an experience, I knew I was prepping for this interview and I, it's like the universe gave me the perfect experience where I, I, my Husband was having an emotional experience, and I was just noticing myself, and I was like, I need to talk to Leah and get some, like, actual words to say so that I am not solving. I am more supporting because I just want a wider toolbox here. And I so say, you know, someone. I'm even forgetting now what he was upset about. He just. Like, there was something that was going on for him, and I knew he didn't want me to solve it for him, but it was a. Like, I was trying to be a supportive wife and. But saying things like, you know, I'm sorry, that's your experience. Felt seemed like it would be a little dismissive. So what are some. What are some things? You know, let's say like, your kid comes to you, you know, your teenage daughter, and she's really upset because her friend wasn't sitting with you at lunch or her at lunch or something.
- [28:59]
Leah Marone
Yeah, absolutely. Especially. Gosh, in that scenario, I think, especially with teenagers. And it's. It's when they pause, like, you pause. And that's so hard because we want to fill that silence. But I think just letting them, you know, because they're. They're testing us too. Oftentimes they're waiting to see if we're just gonna jump in, like, oh, I know her mom. I'll give her a call, and they'll sit with you. You know, just like that.
- [29:22]
Susie Pettit
Getting the bait. Don't take the bait. Right.
- [29:24]
Leah Marone
So don't take the bait. I think it's more so just creating. It's almost like viewing yourself as, like, this space creator. I think I'm gonna create the space. I'm gonna see, you know, if you pause, I'm gonna see if you continue. Love the phrase. Like, you know, after you've maybe validated. After you've maybe said, like, oh, that. That does sound like a rough day, or, you know, kind of use that empathy. Then you sometimes will just say, like, tell me more.
- [29:47]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, tell me.
- [29:48]
Leah Marone
And I. I just love it. I. I just love it because it's just, tell me more. Or you. You paraphrase, or you just say, like, no, that. Yeah, that's a lot. And it just gives people that freedom of, like, I'm trying to process something, and you're allowing me to externally process it. And you'll start to see people, even your teenagers, start to maybe piece some things together. And it may take a while. It may take, you know, several conversations, but I think it is. It's first that validation, that empathy piece. And when you're ready and when they're ready. Moving into. Sometimes that inquiry piece of, like, tell me more or like, you know, what do you feel like your next step might be? Or, you know, has. Have you been through something like this before? Like you're helping them kind of pull from their own data and have you.
- [30:36]
Susie Pettit
Been through this before?
- [30:37]
Leah Marone
Yeah, and accessing that resilience. So I, I do. I mean, it's. Of course you're going to add your own flavor. It depends on who you're talking with. We're all, you know, EQ savvy. I can, I can tell this listener group is. And so it's more so just really just pacing yourself and meeting that person where they're.
- [30:54]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. You know, thinking.
- [30:56]
Leah Marone
It's.
- [30:56]
Susie Pettit
It's because I think my listeners are pretty good at doing the, like, what are our next step part. Because that's the, you know, that's like what they like, like, okay, now let's see. Like, you can apply to three more jobs. I think it's more the validating part of just letting them, like, like me with my son when he's having his big emotions, letting him have his big emotion, and then letting me have my emotion with my son having his emotion or when my husband was upset the other day, like, letting my husband have that experience. Not trying to rush in, well, what's your next step? Because that's not going to go so well with him. I know. And more me coming back to me. And again, this is like that serial fixer. Like, we're in their head. We need to be in our head. And one of the things I say is, like, it's really hard for me when people around me are upset. I just, I'm like, it's really hard for me to see them upset. And I appreciate the help with the adolescents because that's what's happening. I know a lot of listeners and a lot of just how we've been programmed is that we, as you said, like, they might give us the bait. We have been sort of the therapists for other people in our life. Like, and I, I do see that sometimes in more like adult relationships and with my clients that, that the spouse might be waiting for the other, you know, their partner to be like, well, this is because you had that experience when you were a kid and like, putting again, five steps ahead. So what, what do we do there so that we're not, you know, we can be more of a partner, not a therapist.
- [32:33]
Leah Marone
Yeah, it is. And sometimes, you know, it is kind of, if you have that type of relationship. You're at this point in the conversation, it is sometimes asking that directly, just, like, how can I support you with that? Or what would be helpful at this stage? Or, you know, do you want to share more or do you want to revisit what we talked about two days ago? Like, I think sometimes, you know, we don't have that script and removing that pressure that we have to say the right thing or we have to, you know, sometimes it's directly asking, like, would it be helpful for me to ask you some questions? Like. Or would it be helpful to, like, look at maybe what your options might be at this stage? Like, sometimes even just asking. And you'll get to that direct. Like, no, no. And you'll be like, okay, cool. Like, I'll pull back. Like, you know, but sometimes I think really viewing those conversations is collaborative. Like, collaborative. You're. You're empowering. You're leading with empathy, and you're collaborating. And sometimes it is okay to check in and just be like, I'm not really sure what to say. What might be helpful? Or what do you think would be, you know, what do you need at this stage? And I had my daughter. I have two teenage daughters. And this was kind of, like, so hard for me because it was the earlier last week, and she's going through a friend issue, and, you know, she's. She's upset. We kind of went through it. I was, you know, giving her hugs, and then I kind of said, you know, what would be helpful right now, honey? You know, and she said it was good to talk, but I actually feel like I kind of want to be alone for a little bit. And of course, my mom. Alarm bells were like, no, no, wait, no, I need to hug you more. I need to be here. Let's talk it out. Like, you need to feel better. And that really took a lot for me to say. Absolutely. Can I check in with you later?
- [34:09]
Susie Pettit
Yes.
- [34:09]
Leah Marone
And that was meeting.
- [34:10]
Susie Pettit
I just want to highlight what would be helpful for you right now. That's a really good one, because I don't. I see a lot of my listeners taking the collaboration too far in their adult relationships. That's where they get into the serial fixing, where they. They do end up in this feeling, the resentment and the exhaustion and almost like their husband is their other child. And, like. And then the husband's sort of putting the bait out there. Like, I'm really upset, you know, that's. But I love that. Like, you know, what would be helpful for you right now? I also like something you said Just came up with me. A lot of the coaching I do around is, is sort of differentiating between love and control and how sometimes my helping and our helping is actually like trying to manage our own discomfort or fear in trying to control them and, and fix. Like we're thinking, you know, we want to rush to that collaboration place and more from a control place, not a love place. Is that something you've seen?
- [35:15]
Leah Marone
Absolutely. It's like, if you're okay, then I can be okay. So make sure that you get there fast so that I can have some relief. Okay.
- [35:22]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. Yeah. Which when I flip it and it's me, like, that doesn't feel good. No, it feels so good when, you know, when it's just like letting me, you know, have whatever experience I'm having and not rushing into that, the solving, like letting just support what do I need and that skill. But I guess also just something to point out to all listeners that this isn't something we're born knowing and it often wasn't modeled for us. So getting books like yours, I mean, I created the Love youe Life School because I'm like, that we weren't taught this sort of stuff and getting that initial piece of knowledge. And then also we've got to get out there and practice it. Like listening to a podcast isn't enough. We need to actually open our mouth and say the thing and it's going to feel awkward. And the other person might be like, what is happening? Usually you tell me what to do right away. Or usually, you know that. So there's going to be some awkwardness. And on the other side of that awkwardness are some really healthy relationships.
- [36:25]
Leah Marone
Yeah. And you. And you know, that's. So you make such a good point where like when you're trying to something new and you're trying to reframe something show up differently. It does. It takes reps. I mean this. And it's not about perfection. It's not about nailing it every time. But think about to the power of the circle back. So like, if you do, you know, you're like, oh my gosh, I just totally solved that. I jumped in. I serial fixed again. Like, it's okay to circle back and say, you know what? I thought about our conversation.
- [36:51]
Susie Pettit
Yes.
- [36:51]
Leah Marone
And I really wish that I would have shared this or I would have given you a little more space to share this. And also when you're changing that up with someone, you know, and you are approaching things differently and they might be like, what are you. Yeah, you normally give me all the answers. I think that, too, sometimes calls for some disclosure and vulnerability of just saying, you know what? I've picked up on some patterns, and I've realized that I jump in way too fast, and I'm not really giving you that opportunity to kind of figure this out. And it's not that I don't trust you. I think I was just, like, jumping the gun. So I'm going to really try to work on that. And that, too, is so good, not only for you to hear, but it lets that person know too. Like, oh, okay, this is going to be different. I need to kick into gear and start getting some reps in myself.
- [37:36]
Susie Pettit
And I want listeners to hear how you just portrayed that you weren't like, I'm noticing some patterns that you do.
- [37:43]
Leah Marone
This.
- [37:45]
Susie Pettit
Like, that you don't, you don't fix your own. You're always leaning on me. You, you, you, you said, I'm noticing some patterns that I jump into fast or I interrupt or I'm always, I'm not really letting you have the experience in the feelings that you're having. And so I'll be working on this. That 100% leads to more openness with the other person, because it's not that you, you, you. I love it and I love, I think this is a good place to wrap up. And for listeners, I will put the link to your book to get your book for sure. But is there anything that you feel that we haven't touched on or, you know, one last thing that you want to say to the person who's listening? That's like, I am so a serial fixer, Leah, like, that you feel that we haven't addressed.
- [38:32]
Leah Marone
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I think, you know, for all of you, again, kind of maybe filtrating this information through your critic and like, oh, I'm such a serial picture. How did I get this way? Number one, you're not alone. Like, this is a huge thing. And just remember that it typically does happen because you have high emotional intelligence. You're able to read a room. You're able to problem solve very quickly. You're able, you know, so there's a lot of strengths and superpowers involved in this. But you can see, like, with anything, when there's too much of something or too little, it sometimes has the reverse effect. And so think about, like, being patient with yourself and thinking about, like, you haven't done this catastrophic, huge damage and, oh, my gosh, don't think that way. It's just, you're working on something, you're improving something. And I think just again, it's like, you're getting in shape. You need reps. Yeah, well.
- [39:23]
Susie Pettit
And, like, getting in shape, it's like any day is a good day to start. And I love that, like, us sitting here being like, I haven't done a bench press ever. Like, that's so unhelpful. So it's, I think, for the listener to just have some comfort here and know, like, they're hearing this message and learning about your work at the exact right time and exactly how it's supposed to be happening for their relationships. Because I would not have handled my son in the way that I handled him if I hadn't had other moments where I was rushing in and being the fixer.
- [39:50]
Leah Marone
And that's. We.
- [39:51]
Susie Pettit
We grow at the speed of our suffering, so that's how we get it. So some of that just not bringing in that. That inner critic, I think is really helpful. Thank you, Leah. This is going to feel like a warm hug, I think, for my listeners, and I really appreciate you taking the time today.
- [40:08]
Leah Marone
Oh, my gosh. It was my pleasure. I feel like we could have talked all day.
- [40:10]
Susie Pettit
Yes, I. I think we could have. There's a lot here, which is why everyone needs to get your book, Cereal Fixer. It's available everywhere. Okay.
- [40:18]
Leah Marone
Oh, thank you. Thank you.