The Kennedy Center Will Not Hold

Summary

Lovett or Leave It – Episode 439: The Kennedy Center Will Not Hold

Date: February 7, 2026
Host: Jon Lovett
Guests: Lisa Rinna, Rachel Bloom

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Episode Overview

In this energetic, irreverent episode, Jon Lovett kicks off a new season of Lovett or Leave It live from Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles. The show swerves through the week’s wildest political stories with Lovett’s signature blend of wit and exasperation, then dives into wide-ranging, delightfully candid interviews with TV icon Lisa Rinna and comedian/creator Rachel Bloom. Discussions cover everything from Department of Justice chaos, the fate of the Kennedy Center under Trump, the Epstein files release, reality show alliances, fame’s addictive pull, self-compassion, music, and the seriousness of jokes.

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Key Segments, Topics & Insights

1. What a Week – DOJ, ICE, and the Trump Administration

• [02:34 – 09:04]
• Lovett lampoons news that a DOJ attorney, overwhelmed by ICE’s lawlessness, cracked in court and asked the judge to hold her in contempt just to get “24 hours of sleep.”
  • Notable quote:

    “I have never in my life felt better about not going to law school. ... I’m over here typing ‘Bongino’ into rhymezone.com.” – Jon Lovett (03:42)

• Jokes about DOJ hiring lawyers via DMs, the Trump admin’s media allies turning on him, and militarized ICE operations reminiscent of authoritarian regimes.
• “Either we defeat the MAGA movement once and for all, or every podcast will ultimately become Pod Save America. Your move, nation.” – Jon Lovett (06:24)

2. The Kennedy Center & Right-wing Culture Wars

• [06:02 – 09:13]
• Trump’s plan to remake the Kennedy Center is skewered, as artists like Philip Glass drop out in protest and the substitute shows flop.
• Lovett lampoons Trump’s culture war attempts, noting the clumsy Turning Point USA halftime show and mocking Kid Rock’s continued use of “Kid.”
  • “How old is Kid Rock going to be before he drops the kid?” – Jon Lovett (07:07)

3. Epstein Files: Release, Reactions, and Trump

• [09:13 – 16:29]
• Detailed breakdown of new Epstein files: Trump named tens of thousands of times, shifting admin positions (“release the list” to “the list doesn’t exist”), and DOJ’s evasions about Epstein associates.
• Lovett spotlights grotesque DOJ-protected emails, criticizes elite complicity, and concludes:

  • “At the core ... was the abuse and exploitation of children. That was the source of all the power he accumulated. And that is evil. But so is a culture in which someone could get away with it for so long.” – Jon Lovett (15:45)

• “Trump was never a threat to this revolting, godless, sybaritic elite. He is the living embodiment of it.” – Jon Lovett (15:59)

4. Lisa Rinna: Reality TV, Regrets, and the Fame Machine

The Traitors & Housewife Dynamics

• [19:32 – 33:01]
• Lisa Rinna celebrates her time on The Traitors: “I had no problem murdering them at all. I loved it.” (20:17)
• Discusses breaking the “no voting for housewives” reality rule, Survivor’s early exits, and off-screen housewives’ alliances.
• On housewife chemistry:
  • “Some people you mix with and some you don’t ... I think it’s a chemistry. You like some people and others you don’t.” – Lisa Rinna (22:22)
• Lovett and Rinna share their mutual preference for dogs over people.

Social Media, Conflict, and Resets

• Addressing internet drama with Colton (from The Bachelor), Rinna confesses to a “Hulk situation”:

  “There’s a thing that can happen to a housewife where it activates ... Colton activated me while I was sitting in my kitchen.” – Lisa Rinna (27:17)

• “You should fear and admire it.” – Lisa Rinna on her confrontation style (28:22)
• Highlights reality TV’s unique ability to spark but then move past conflicts.

Relationships & Marriage in Housewives-land

• Rinna reflects on how being married on TV is “very intense,” and credits her 33-year marriage to Harry Hamlin to having things “together” before fame (31:49).
• Fame’s addictive pull:

  “Fame is the most addicting thing on the planet besides heroin ... But I’m not gonna sacrifice that much. I’m already famous.” – Lisa Rinna (37:04)

Politics & Pop Culture

• Lisa, unusually political among housewives, encourages more in her orbit to speak out, attributing silence to commercial caution:

  “They want to look like Switzerland so that their money can keep coming in. ... Otherwise, why wouldn’t more people speak out?” – Lisa Rinna (34:42)

Personal Loss & Assisted Suicide

• [38:02 – 40:38]
• Rinna opens up about her father’s assisted suicide, describing it as “brutally hard ... but also beautiful because he could control it and do it his way ... he got to die peacefully with us surrounding him.” (38:34)

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5. Rachel Bloom: Love, Self-Compassion, and Devil Wears Prada 2

• [43:39 – 56:54]
• Rachel and Lisa riff affectionately about their on-stage chemistry (“hottest girlfriends”– 43:47), and reminiscing about edgy previous podcast appearances.
• Bloom laments the state of streaming for her show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and jokes about its on-again, off-again availability (45:41).
• The trio discuss “36 Questions to Fall in Love,” unspooling into talk of emotional longing and self-compassion:
  • Rachel: “The ability for infinite self compassion, that’s really what it is.” (47:56)
  • Lisa: “I’d like to be invisible ... walk through walls and be invisible when I’d like to be and just disappear when I want.” (48:58)
• Banter about always singing, changes to the alphabet song (which irks everyone), and masturbation/ice cream as ideal coping tools (48:41).
• Bloom’s NDA-bound involvement in Devil Wears Prada 2 is a running gag, as is the (supposed) villainy of Andy’s boyfriend.

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6. Philosophy of Comedy, Friendship & Mortality

• [56:54 – 63:51]
• On whether some topics are “too serious” to joke about, both Bloom and Lovett agree nothing is off-limits if the ethic is right and the joke isn’t lazy.
  • Rachel Bloom: “Humor is the great equalizer ... when you say you can’t talk about something ... you only add to the tension and stigma of it.” (57:05)
  • “Offensive comedy ... it’s also just like, easy and lazy.” – Rachel Bloom (58:12)
• Friendship, per Lisa:
  • “You have someone that has your back and you have somebody’s back.” (59:27)
• Rachel recommends “the Self Compassion Workbook” as a tool for applying unconditional love, even toward oneself.
• On mortality, everyone muses on parenthood, fear, and nervousness about flying (“every time I get on a plane ... what if this is the time?” – Rachel Bloom, 61:14), blending humor with real vulnerability.

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7. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Either we defeat the MAGA movement once and for all, or every podcast will ultimately become Pod Save America.” – Jon Lovett (06:24)
• “How old is Kid Rock going to be before he drops the kid?” – Jon Lovett (07:07)
• “At the core ... was the abuse and exploitation of children. That was the source of all the power he accumulated. And that is evil. But so is a culture in which someone could get away with it for so long.” – Jon Lovett (15:45)
• “Fame is the most addicting thing on the planet besides heroin.” – Lisa Rinna (37:04)
• “You should fear and admire it.” – Lisa Rinna on her conflict style (28:22)
• “Humor is the great equalizer ... you only add to the tension and stigma [if you censor jokes].” – Rachel Bloom (57:05)

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8. Audience Questions & Fun

• Rinna admits she’d love to be a lounge singer (“I want to be like a lounge singer in a bar ... or sing at weddings” – 55:15) and is immediately invited by Lovett to sing at his wedding.
• Lisa Rinna gamely sings a few bars (“Come Rain or Come Shine”) near episode’s end (73:36).
• The changing alphabet song outrages Bloom & Rinna; “They took all the fun out of the Alphabet song. Fucking Malala.” – Rachel Bloom (52:03, tongue-in-cheek)

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9. Second Thoughts – Self-Critique Segment

• [67:07 – 74:33]
• Lovett, with audience and guest input, revisits awkward moments—like segueing from Lisa Rinna’s emotional family story to reality show talk—using it for meta-comedy.
• Bloom notes the “whiplash” of modern media between traumatic disclosures and casual product plugs: “All our lives are whiplash right now ... why should you be held accountable?” (71:40)

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Timeline of Major Segments

• 00:00 – 02:34: Ads & intro
• 02:34 – 09:13: What a Week / Politics, DOJ, ICE, Trump, Kennedy Center
• 09:13 – 16:29: Epstein files, Trump, and cultural rot
• 19:32 – 40:49: Lisa Rinna: The Traitors, reality TV, housewives, marriage, politics, and family
• 43:39 – 56:54: Rachel Bloom joins, 36 Questions to Fall in Love, comedy, music, Devil Wears Prada 2
• 56:54 – 63:51: Philosophical questions: seriousness in jokes, friendship, mortality
• 67:07 – End: “Second Thoughts” self-critique, Lisa Rinna sings, wrap-up, plugs

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Notable Takeaways

• Lovett’s blend of sharp political satire and reality TV obsession powers the episode’s tone.
• Rinna and Bloom both bring candor and humor, unafraid to address deep topics (grief, fame’s dangers, self-compassion) and be silly in equal measure.
• Underlying the laughs is a critique of cultural distraction, the addictive force of reality TV and celebrity, and the ethical challenges of making comedy in fraught times.
• The live setting spurs energetic call-and-response moments and allows for improvisational pivots, including Lisa Rinna’s live singing and irreverent "second thoughts" from Lovett.

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In Summary

This episode of Lovett or Leave It is a fast-moving, high-energy blend of politics, cultural critique, and unguarded celebrity conversation. The show moves seamlessly from DOJ farce and the grim revelations of the Epstein files, to the capricious alliances of reality shows, to honest reflections on compassion, grief, and the lure of fame. Lisa Rinna and Rachel Bloom shine in their humorous, self-aware banter, while Lovett keeps the proceedings sharp, topical, and always–no matter how grave the material–seriously funny.

Transcript

[John Lovett]

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[Bill McGrath]

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[John Lovett]

What's up, Los Angeles? Welcome to Love it or Leave it live from Dynasty Typewriter. We have got a great show for you tonight. Lisa Rinna is here. Rachel Bloom is here. I'm here. Quietest applause. But moving along, tonight, we're going to reveal the tricks of the traitors, try to fall in love and round up some regrets. But first, let's get into it. What a week. On Tuesday, a Justice Department attorney was in federal court to explain why ICE had repeatedly failed to comply with court orders. And and she cracked, said the government's lawyer to the judge, I wish you would just hold me in contempt of court so I could get 24 hours of sleep. Interesting. Do you think that they let ICE prosecutors get a good night's sleep in jail? When you think about it, the lawyer, Julie Ley, added, the system sucks. This job sucks. She also told the judge that getting ICE to comply with court orders or even to respond to her messages was like pulling teeth. I have never in my life felt better about not going to law school. Have fun trying to get ICE to answer your increasingly desperate emails while you sniff the armpit of that Anne Klein blazer you've been wearing for four days. I'm over here typing bungino into rhymezone.com. The Justice Department has since removed Lay from her role in these cases. This isn't the kind of thing you can just come back from at ice. Like shooting a nurse. Totally correct. That's the right reaction. I think the joke is ethically sound. Your reaction was correct. We're all good. We're all good. We're gonna move forward. There are so many openings at the Department of Justice that the administration is and this is real recruiting lawyers on social media Senate administration official if you are a lawyer and are interested in becoming an AUSA, that's an Assistant U.S. attorney and support President Trump and anti crime agenda. DM me boy, things at DOJ are pretty far gone. Geno. Thank you. These used to be jobs that lawyers would line up for. But fewer and fewer people want to be associated with this administration. And that is true in the media as well. Many who welcomed Trump on their shows barely a year ago for friendly hearings are turning on him. Like Andrew Schultz. ICE murdered an American citizen In cold blood. And then the Trump administration called him a domestic terrorist. Yeah, that's it.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, plain and simple.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I see the administration trying to spin it, and it's fucking disgusting. And you can tell he's sincere because he's dressed like a slam poet who's about to tell us what rhymes with regarded. Rogan, Tim Dillon, Theo Von Schultz, all of them are turning on Trump.

[Bill McGrath]

You don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens that just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo?

[John Lovett]

Where's your papers?

[Bill McGrath]

Is that what we've come to?

[John Lovett]

So when you do these random raids, you're going to provoke a lot of anger because this is barbarism. Trump has an authoritarian energy. When I saw these last few weeks in Minnesota, I didn't think was possible to happen in the United States of America. They're trying to find ways around the system. And what that says to me, when you're willing to shred the Constitution to preserve your. It's not only your power, but your ideas of what should happen. It is incredibly un American. It's very simple. Either we defeat the MAGA movement once and for all, or every podcast will ultimately become Pod Save America. Your move, nation. The Pod Save Americas will continue until morale improves. Now, it's true in the broader culture as well. Right wingers can try to counter program Bad Bunny and Green Day at the super bowl, but all they have is this. A turning point USA halftime show featuring Kid Rack and three people you have never heard of. No offense to Brantley Gilbert, who I am sure is one of the finest Brantleys working. And Gilbert's, I assume. How old is Kid Rock going to be, by the way, before he drops the kid? The only thing he looks like he's rocking these days is a stubborn case of plantar fasciitis. And speaking of arch support, Trump is not only trying to build a big, dumb monument to himself on a patch of grass in Virginia. Yeah, that's right. Speaking of arch support. Come on. I'm just saying we're gonna probably edit this out because why am I, like, patting myself on the back for a transition, bringing the show to a stop to be like, I went from plantar fasciatis to this with. Speaking of. I mean, that's beautiful. You should be grateful to me. Don't do that. Don't encourage me. And while he's going to build this arch, he's also trying to transform the Kennedy center in his own image, but there's one getting actual artists to go along with it. Major performers canceled, including Philip Glass and Issa Rae. Plus, sales were anemic for all the replacement shows, which included Angels in America, Oops All Roy Cohns, Melania Live, Sunday in the park with George Wallace, Ice on Ice, and the actual Book of Mormon and Cats. Philip Glass, for his part, said he pulled his symphony because the Trump administration is in direct conflict with the values of his work. After all, Trump is bringing the country straight down, while Glass believes in just kind of going up a little and down a little and up a little and down a little. So Trump announced on Sunday he would shut down the Kennedy center for two years for renovations. I'm sure, though, Trump has something tasteful in mind.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I'm not ripping it down. I'll be using the steel. So we're using the structure, we're using some of the marble, and some of the marble comes down.

[John Lovett]

Rip the John F. Kennedy center for the Performing Arts. Fitting that you will be blown apart as the nation looks on in horror. And the Epstein files are a part of this story. Trump's great trick is advocating for the most powerful and entrenched interests on earth while acting as if he's some counterculture rebel. That's why he points RFK Jr and Tulsi Galbert a fuck you to the medical establishment, a fuck you to the intelligence establishment. That's why he brings in Kash Patel and Dan Bongino, assigned to the conspiracy theorists that he's on their side, ready to hold the reptilians and aliens to account. Here's JD Vance two weeks before the election. Release the list.

[Producer or Announcer]

Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list.

[John Lovett]

That is an important thing. But once Trump came back to power, we went from Pam Bondi saying the Epstein client list was sitting on her desk to Kash Patel saying the Epstein client list didn't exist.

[Lisa Rinna]

Who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these young women to besides himself?

[John Lovett]

Himself? There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again, is limited. And now we know that that is just not true. Here is one sickening example of an email sent to Jeffrey Epstein by a person whose identity the Department of Justice is still protecting. It says, thank you for a fun night. Your littlest girl was a little naughty. Better get this one to the crime lab cash. Might be worth sending this one to the boys at Quantico. Perhaps There's a serial killer, a diabolical genius locked in a dungeon somewhere, and you can crack the case with the help of a sharp but untested rookie. Beautiful, perhaps in a plain way, to see if she might coax the Mad Men's help in unlocking this mystery. Or you could just remove the fucking black bars from in front of the fucking name. Of course we know why this shift happened. Once Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie forced the release of the Epstein files, Trump is mentioned tens of thousands of times across 3,500 files, which is why Trump is so annoyed when the topic comes up. Like when Trump yelled at CNN's Kaitlan Collins for asking about Epstein's victims.

[Lisa Rinna]

What would you say to the survivors who put data?

[Unidentified Male Guest]

You are the worst reporter no one to see. CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face. You know why you're not smiling? Because you know you're not telling the truth.

[John Lovett]

It's weird that Trump even knows that women can smile. When would he have ever even come across it? Here's J.D. vance laughing about that exchange later with Megyn Kelly.

[Producer or Announcer]

There was a moment in the Oval Office.

[John Lovett]

I wasn't even in there, but, you.

[Producer or Announcer]

Know, I was in the West Wing.

[John Lovett]

And somebody sent me where he was talking to Kaitlan Collins. She's asking a question. The President says, why don't you ever smile?

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And it's actually, like, so perceptive.

[Lisa Rinna]

Every once in a while, you have to smile. Roger Ailes used to tell us that every once in a while, you get. Remember, smiles show the viewers that you.

[John Lovett]

Have a heart, have some fun. I'm sorry. Not all of our jobs can be as fun. As fondly reminiscing about serial sexual abuser Roger Ailes. It's also like JD Vance is acting like Trump invented telling women to smile more, which is ridiculous. Roger ailes invented that. U.S. deputy Attorney General and Trump's former personal lawyer Tom Blanche was asked about other alleged participants in Epstein's crimes on Fox News.

[Lisa Rinna]

Is there any chance that any of these individuals who partied with Epstein and engaged in relations with minors will be prosecuted? Any chance?

[John Lovett]

I'll never say no, and we will always investigate any evidence of misconduct. But as you know, it is not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. And here's hoping a lot of these guys get to party With Epstein again real soon.

[Bill McGrath]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Trump, for his part, is pretending to be bored with the whole thing.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I think it's really time for the country to get onto something else, really, now that nothing came out about me other than it was a conspiracy against me, literally, by Epstein and other people.

[John Lovett]

Added Trump, we should put this thing to rest. And I'll just agree. I got away with it. Conspiracy by Epstein. Walk me through the logic of how that works. He was in on it. Pretty. I mean, masterful plan. We don't suspect Epstein of having put all this to work, then died. Sort of a strange conspiracy by Epstein. Of course, many of the people we've learned were connected with Epstein, were not involved in Epstein's abuse of miners. But it does raise the question, why were so many wealthy and powerful and successful people drawn into Epstein's orbit? This is a disgraced financier, a registered sex offender. How does he become this connector and convener and dispenser of favors? At the core of it, beneath the sophisticated dinners with fascinating guests, beneath the mansions and jets, an aesthetic of respectability beneath the money and all the ways it can insulate you from consequences, at the core of all of it was the abuse and exploitation of children. That was the source of all the power he accumulated. And that is evil. But so is a culture in which someone could get away with it for so long and so many powerful people, even those who are not necessarily part of it. Any crime never questioned their association with a monster, their moral responsibility. Why would it even come up? Trump was never a threat to this revolting, godless, sybaritic elite. He is the living embodiment of it. A Trump presidency and all its cruelty and its carelessness and its depravity can only exist in a world where Jeffrey Epstein is possible. There are over 38,000 references to Trump in the Epstein files. Now, some of those mentions may be duplicates and fakes, but still, it's a lot of mentions, especially when you consider that the target number of times to be mentioned in the Epstein files is zero. Compare that to me. The innocent John Lovett only mentioned once in a news roundup about an article I wrote for the Atlantic about the Republican Party. And I just want to say, hey, whichever, love it or leave it, writer went to the Epstein files and searched my name. Okay, fine. Good. And we've got a great show for you tonight. When we come back, the icon, the legend from the traitors. It's Lisa Rinna.

[Producer or Announcer]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of love. It or Leave It Coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Producer or Announcer]

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[John Lovett]

Absolutely. Sure. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Use the stars to navigate. BetterHelp's quality therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps you identify your needs and preferences in their 12 plus years of experience. An industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time with their tailored RECS. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. That's pretty good. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Love it. That's betterhelp.com. love it. And we're back. Please welcome to the stage, it's Lisa fucking Rinna. They love you. So. Wow.

[Lisa Rinna]

Thanks, guys.

[John Lovett]

Wow. Very happy to see you. Now, for the listening audience at home, if you do not want to be spoiled for the traitors, this is the point at which you should jump ahead. Hi. Welcome.

[Lisa Rinna]

Hi. Thanks.

[John Lovett]

So you're excellent on this season of the Traitors.

[Lisa Rinna]

Why thank you. I had a lot of fun.

[John Lovett]

And how much of who you. How much do you bring Lisa Rinna as a person versus Lisa Rinna as an actor? Like, how much are you doing as soap out there?

[Lisa Rinna]

I did a lot of soap out there. I did. I'm not gonna lie. Especially when I kill Caroline Stanbury. I put my soap hat on and I enjoyed every second of that murder. I really enjoyed killing people I loved. I had no problem murdering them at all. I loved it.

[John Lovett]

Now there's a unspoken then spoken rule about housewives not voting for housewives.

[Lisa Rinna]

Clearly, I broke that rule for sure. I broke it big time.

[John Lovett]

For sure.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

But it does seem like.

[Rachel Bloom]

I don't.

[Lisa Rinna]

Like that rule, by the way.

[John Lovett]

Right. Because it sort of seems like then everybody would gang up on the housewives.

[Lisa Rinna]

Because then they would do gang up on the housewives. I mean, that's part of the problem. When you put us all in a group, they're like, we gotta get the housewives. I don't like that. I didn't like that.

[John Lovett]

So I was very briefly on the show Survivor.

[Lisa Rinna]

So technically, is that true or is he lying? No, I was really.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Blinking. You'll miss it.

[Lisa Rinna]

You really were.

[John Lovett]

I really Was.

[Lisa Rinna]

And you got kicked off, like, right away.

[John Lovett]

Absolutely.

[Lisa Rinna]

So I'm sorry.

[John Lovett]

No, it's okay.

[Lisa Rinna]

You feel like such a loser, right?

[John Lovett]

Well, I.

[Lisa Rinna]

I mean, you know, don't you? A little bit.

[John Lovett]

No, no.

[Lisa Rinna]

Look, those Survivor people are brutal. I know they're so tough.

[John Lovett]

But would I be considered one? Would you? If you. If I was on Traders and you found out that I was a gamer from Survivor but that I went home first, I've gotta be seen as harmless. Right. I've gotta be someone you drag along basically just like just meat for the grinder later on.

[Lisa Rinna]

Correct.

[John Lovett]

Cool.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah. I would not blink twice at you.

[John Lovett]

So I actually commiserated about going home first with Dorinda. I had Dorinda on and we talked about her first experience and how disappointing it was and Dorinda having a better experience this season.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

But there's this tension between Dorinda and Ron. Funches. Yes. Derinda, we had a great conversation. Like, Dorinda, Ron's been a great guest on this show. What's going on?

[Lisa Rinna]

Well, listen, I was there, so I saw it all and I heard it all and, you know, you don't see it. They cut most of it. But listen, I think that you have chemistry with people and some people you mix with and some people you don't. That was just a. Like a barrel full of misunderstandings and whatever that was, it happened. And I couldn't explain it to you other than they both had a problem with each other. They did. Yeah. But I think it's a chemistry. You like some people and other people that you don't like.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I find that. So I like so few people and so few people like me, which I think the same.

[Lisa Rinna]

I feel the same way.

[John Lovett]

But then if I do like someone, boy, is it great.

[Lisa Rinna]

I know. I feel the same way.

[John Lovett]

And how do we think this is going so far?

[Lisa Rinna]

Good. I think it's good. I liked everybody in that castle. I got along with everybody. I really didn't. And I don't like people and I don't like most of those kinds of people, but I like them all. It's true.

[John Lovett]

And what kinds of people are you talking about?

[Lisa Rinna]

Well, like, people from just people like. I just people like. I like dogs better than I like people, you know.

[John Lovett]

So there was this great dynamic between you and Colton on the show.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, yeah, Great. Super. Well, yeah, it was really lovely.

[John Lovett]

I thought, you're good now.

[Lisa Rinna]

He has crazy eyes.

[John Lovett]

What happened to you two being. I thought we're fine.

[Rachel Bloom]

We're fine.

[Lisa Rinna]

You're on your side, we're fine. But I'm realizing I have moments of, like, reliving, and I see him on screen and I go, shit. He has crazy eyes. And I didn't even realize it in the moment. He's got crazy eyes.

[John Lovett]

He came to play. He came to play hard. And he did get you.

[Lisa Rinna]

He did get me.

[John Lovett]

He got you.

[Lisa Rinna]

I know.

[John Lovett]

And it seems so.

[Lisa Rinna]

He did.

[John Lovett]

So.

[Lisa Rinna]

He got me. Well, not really. Rob got me more than Colton. We can't give Colton that much credit.

[John Lovett]

I think you can.

[Lisa Rinna]

Rob got me. He did.

[John Lovett]

Hey, the war's over. This was shot a while ago.

[Lisa Rinna]

Clearly it's not. Clearly it's. That's not.

[John Lovett]

And then.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes, back to Colton.

[John Lovett]

And so. But then. And I really like Colton, and I. And I appreciate.

[Lisa Rinna]

You know him.

[John Lovett]

Yes, you do. Yes. We're friends.

[Lisa Rinna]

Really.

[John Lovett]

And I appreciate that he's someone deep. You know what that is? Honestly, they find it shocking. I have handsome friends. Shame on you. He is handsome, and I appreciate that he's someone that went through a really rough period, especially before he came out. And then he comes out and he builds this great life. And then when you were upset about being got that, you posted that he was a stalker and it caused this whole big kerfuffle.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

No.

[Lisa Rinna]

Excuse me. Let's go back.

[John Lovett]

Go back. Correct me. I want to be corrected.

[Lisa Rinna]

Excuse me. What happened was people started to talk about that incident in his life, so I didn't bring it up. All of a sudden, they were talking about him being a stalker, and I did not know that. And the tiktokers were going TikTok wild about it. That's how it began. And then somebody from the Bachelor. I don't know her name exactly, but she started to talk about it. So it was long going before I entered the chat. Now, let me take it back. Colton. Colton wanted to see me as a housewife. Right. He really was begging for it.

[John Lovett]

Well, he was. He had seen and noted a difference, but he thought that this was a sign that maybe you were a traitor, which wasn't wrong. He did kind of. He did have a point.

[Lisa Rinna]

Maybe there was a cat.

[John Lovett]

He was barking up the tree, and there was a cat in the tree.

[Lisa Rinna]

Okay, there was a cat in the tree. There was, but I don't know about that. So I let him have it. As you saw. I was like, do not, you know, label me and yada yada. And so, you know, there's a little part of being a housewife where you're kind of trained to do it. Whenever you want. So not just on the show, but you can pull up that housewife at any moment.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Right.

[Lisa Rinna]

So I saw this post that had me asking, were people doing coke in your bathroom? Thank you. It's one of my finer moments on the show. And the girl that was posting it said, I don't know if Colton knows who he's sliding up to something to that effect. Good luck. That's when I left the comment, let's talk about you being a stalker.

[John Lovett]

And that is. So it's sort of like a Hulk situation where there's a thing that can happen to a housewife where it activates.

[Lisa Rinna]

Exactly, exactly. And it doesn't take much. So Colton. Colton activated me while I was sitting in my kitchen. And we had stopped filming seven months ago. True. And all I had to do. And I knew it, you know, like I could have stopped myself.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Right.

[Lisa Rinna]

I don't know that I could have.

[John Lovett]

You know that I don't know.

[Lisa Rinna]

It's a fine line.

[John Lovett]

You're saying it. You could have stopped myself.

[Lisa Rinna]

I could have stopped myself. But I have this little thing inside of me that knows if I cross that line, it's gonna just really bring havoc.

[John Lovett]

Uh huh.

[Lisa Rinna]

And yet part of me goes, okay, I'm not gonna do that because my God, I don't wanna bring havoc to anybody. And then I sit back for a second and I go, yeah, but what if, like, what if.

[John Lovett]

What a way to live.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It's so interesting. Well. Cause the other side of it. Well, it's interesting. It's so interesting because it does seem to be something where I fear and admire it, I think, which is.

[Lisa Rinna]

That's a good way to look at it. You should fear and admire it.

[John Lovett]

Well, part of it is also, it's almost like a different. It's a culture in which also you can then say, we're good and you can kind of move forward. There's a way of moving forward.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes, you can. If the person will also move forward with you. You know what I'm saying?

[John Lovett]

And have you and Colton move forward.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Because I do think, like people shouldn't be defined by their worst moments, especially if they were going through something.

[Lisa Rinna]

That's why I came out and did a video saying, listen, I'm fine with Colton. He was a great nemesis for me. I like him, yada yada. But he did want a housewife, so, you know, he got one. But we're fine. I'm fine with everybody and even Robbie Bobby, who threw me under the bus. Oh, listen to that. I love That I just love that validation. Thank you.

[John Lovett]

So I think we have to talk about the handsomeness of Robbie Bobby.

[Lisa Rinna]

The world is talking about it.

[John Lovett]

It's sort of a frustrating kind of handsomeness, I find, because he also seems to be kind of smart and charming.

[Lisa Rinna]

Right.

[John Lovett]

That's sort of frustrating to me.

[Lisa Rinna]

Big combo.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes. But I am married to that. I am married to that. Harry Hamlin is that combination of sexiest man alive and really smart. So I was used to it.

[John Lovett]

Right. It was sort of a little bit of. Because for other people, I think it'd be kind of almost like they get the googly eyes.

[Lisa Rinna]

They're all googly eyes. And they're all intimidated by it. And they'll all like, literally drop on the floor for him. They will do anything. Except for me. I was able to, like, just sit and talk to him as you saw me play chess with him. I was able to look him right in the eye. I don't think anybody else could have done that. They would have been like, oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

So you brought up your marriage to Harry Hamlin, and it seems like in the world of housewives, having a good marriage is like a superpower.

[Lisa Rinna]

Well, it's practically impossible. I mean, nobody has it.

[Rachel Bloom]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Well, that's. So first of all, some of it's self selecting because it does seem that people sometimes go on the show, they're almost like, I'm going to blow up the whole thing anyway, let's get on television. Let's do it on tv. This thing is. This thing. This thing. There's a flat line here.

[Lisa Rinna]

Very Kelsey and Camille Grammer right there. I mean. Right.

[John Lovett]

But. But has been. But then. Then it does also.

[Lisa Rinna]

How many times are we gonna get, like, clocked? You know, I always say that when I'm at a podcast or a live thing. Clocked, meaning that's gonna, like, live out in the zeitgeist after you've said it.

[John Lovett]

Oh, you think? Oh, I wonder. Well, I guess we'll have to clip it and put it out into the world probably a lot. We have a little bit of say in what gets clocked, I suppose. Oh, maybe.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes, we do.

[John Lovett]

I wonder if this will come up in the reunion. You haven't had the reunion yet.

[Lisa Rinna]

Next Thursday, one week from tonight.

[John Lovett]

Ooh. But is it hard to be married on the show for people whose marriages maybe aren't as strong as yours that could have made it were they not on television. What do you think?

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes, I think being on television like that is very intense. And if you don't have, like, your stuff together. It can easily go south very quickly.

[John Lovett]

Wow. But you guys have been good.

[Lisa Rinna]

We're good.

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Lisa Rinna]

So far, so good. We're still married, I think. We've been together 33 years. That's pretty crazy.

[John Lovett]

There's a. And you have a book out.

[Lisa Rinna]

I do.

[John Lovett]

Which is called you better be.

[Lisa Rinna]

Well, almost out. It's about to be out February 24th.

[John Lovett]

February 24th. You better believe I'm gonna talk about it. Can you give us one?

[Lisa Rinna]

They know what that's from. Do you know what that's from?

[John Lovett]

Of course I do. So I'm a huge. So I'm. I've been.

[Lisa Rinna]

I heard you're a huge housewife.

[John Lovett]

I'm on a journey. I'm on a journey. And in knowing and in Watch Traders and then knowing you were coming. I've been watching your seasons.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, God.

[John Lovett]

But I'm not yet up to Amsterdam, if that gives you a sense of.

[Lisa Rinna]

That's my first season.

[John Lovett]

I know.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, so you're not even to me yet.

[John Lovett]

No, I've been watching your season. So here's what happened.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, I see. You're just not to the.

[John Lovett]

I'm not up to Amsterdam. I'm getting there. I was going to try to make it for tonight just to understand Amsterdam. Oh, do you think. Do you think you.

[Lisa Rinna]

I don't know if you'll ever understand it.

[John Lovett]

Can Lisa Rinna be understood without understanding Amsterdam?

[Lisa Rinna]

No.

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Lisa Rinna]

No. See, they know me.

[John Lovett]

Do they follow? They know you?

[Lisa Rinna]

They know me. They know me. I can tell.

[John Lovett]

Do they actually know you?

[Lisa Rinna]

I don't even know if I know me. I'm not even sure you know what I mean. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

What's a story from the book that people would be surprised by?

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, there's a lot. I talk about my experience on Days of our Lives as everyone's so young here. Did anybody watch Days of Our Lives? Did you, like, watch it with your nana growing up? Okay, there we go. I tell some stories about my experience there because it was my first big acting job that I think people will be really surprised by. I know everybody wants to know, like, the housewife stuff and all that, but you'll find that that's. That's easy. But I talk a lot about experiences on shows that I've never talked about, so that's something.

[John Lovett]

They're excited.

[Lisa Rinna]

There's a lot of good tea in there.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, yeah. I'm gonna have a lot of people mad at me. I love that.

[John Lovett]

I love that for us. You're also one of the few housewives who has been outspoken politically.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Do you get frustrated seeing people stay silent? Do you think more people should speak out?

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes. I've been speaking out, you know, for a long time now. And yes, it bites me a lot. I don't care. I just. I just. I think it needs to be done. I'm one of the only ones in that universe, in the housewife universe, that ever spoke out. Right. It's true.

[John Lovett]

What do you. But, like. But you're.

[Lisa Rinna]

You're.

[John Lovett]

It's not. You're. You're doing great, you know, you're, you know, lightning came down. No, like, what. What do you think it. What is the fear? Is it a fear that they're going to do it wrong? That there's. They can't. Once they've done it, they can't undo it. They don't trust what is. What do you think it is?

[Lisa Rinna]

I think it's all of the above. I think it's just too scary for their. They don't want to mess with their brand deals. I think it's that simple. They don't want to look. They want to look like Switzerland so that their money can keep coming in. I think that's it. I really do. Otherwise, why wouldn't you. Why wouldn't more people speak out? It doesn't make any sense to me. I have no problem with it. As you know, I say whatever comes out of this mouth. I just do.

[John Lovett]

That's exciting.

[Lisa Rinna]

I think so.

[John Lovett]

So this week, E announced that they're doing E's Golden Life with Luann, Sonja Morgan, Ramona singer Jill Zarin, Kelly Bensimone.

[Lisa Rinna]

How did I miss this? They're gonna call it the Golden Life. Like the Golden Girls.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I think that. I guess that's right. I think that's probably where the idea comes from.

[Lisa Rinna]

Well, I'm glad those ladies are working. I think that's always good. No, I do. I think it's good that, you know, they're good tv. It's a good group.

[John Lovett]

But do you think. How. Do you think they. Do you think. How did they escape from the Bravo?

[Lisa Rinna]

I don't know. How did. Well, isn't E and Bravo and everybody under that Comcast umbrella? I feel like they. Not anymore.

[John Lovett]

Not anymore. Not anymore.

[Lisa Rinna]

So how did this happen?

[John Lovett]

I don't know. I simply don't know.

[Lisa Rinna]

You literally have to sell your soul to Bravo. How'd they get it back?

[John Lovett]

I don't know. Maybe they kissed. Maybe they kissed Prince Eric by the third Night.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Lisa Rinna]

I'm surprised by this, actually. Wow.

[John Lovett]

Would you ever, like. Don't you think this show should. This feels like. I mean, why wouldn't Bravo want to do this show? See, I'd be excited about this. Wouldn't you be excited to watch this?

[Lisa Rinna]

I'm surprised that they wouldn't want to do it because, I mean, those are a lot of the OGs. I don't know. I can't figure that out. You know, who knows what that's all about?

[John Lovett]

Would you ever go back to.

[Lisa Rinna]

No.

[John Lovett]

Why not?

[Lisa Rinna]

Because it was a fucking toxic nightmare.

[John Lovett]

But see, that's what's so interesting. Cause it's. There's so many people that are like, God, it's a toxic nightmare, and I can't wait to go back.

[Lisa Rinna]

I know. But.

[John Lovett]

No, what do you think that is?

[Lisa Rinna]

That they want to go back and.

[John Lovett]

They know it was toxic.

[Lisa Rinna]

What's less toxic? Fame, baby. Fame is the most addicting thing on the planet besides heroin.

[John Lovett]

But what's interesting is I was watching you on the show, and you were pretty direct, honest about how you like being famous.

[Lisa Rinna]

I love being famous. Oh, I do. No joke about it. But I'm not gonna sacrifice that much. Cause I'm already famous. I don't need to go. And you know what I mean? I don't need to be any more famous. I mean, how famous can you be, you know?

[John Lovett]

So I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out.

[Lisa Rinna]

It's nice.

[John Lovett]

Right? I'll tell you something. I'll tell you something. Is there a level above podcast? Yeah. Wow.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I can't imagine.

[Lisa Rinna]

Can you get any table you want in a restaurant?

[John Lovett]

If you call with enough months in advance. Okay. You just gotta know when they come up on open table.

[Lisa Rinna]

Right, Exactly. So, yeah, you could work a little harder.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I think sometimes you get a table through amex, but I don't know how that works. So I did want to ask something, because this is something which is. Maybe it's a more serious topic, but that your father had decided to die by assisted suicide in 2016 at the age of 94 in Oregon. And that.

[Bill McGrath]

That.

[John Lovett]

That process, like, had some impact on you as you think about being a parent, being a daughter. I'm just curious what that was like.

[Lisa Rinna]

Well, you know, it's really a very hard time when you start to see your parents age out in that way. And my dad was really. You know, he wasn't terminally ill, but he couldn't see, couldn't hear, and he was. He Was sick, but not terminally. Terminally sick. So you need two doctor recommendations, which he got. And, you know, when a loved one wants to do something their way, you go along with it, and that's what we did. And was it brutally hard? Yes. Was it also beautiful? Because he could control it and he could do it his way. You know, he used to love Frank Sinatra. So we were playing Frank Sinatra as it was happening, and, I mean, it's a surreal experience that I would never have thought we would have gone through or I would have gone through. But, you know, when your father or your mother, anybody wants that, it's a beautiful thing because they get to control their destiny in that way. And that's the one thing I was able to see, that he got to die peacefully with us surrounding him. And was it hard? Yeah. Was it surreal? Yeah. I mean, to. I saw both of my parents die, and I also feel really grateful that I got to see both of my parents die and I got to be there with them. Both of them. And that is. I mean, how many people can say that, you know, that I got to be there when they passed? It's pretty. It's pretty big.

[John Lovett]

And do you think you'd do the All Star Traitors?

[Lisa Rinna]

I just. I literally saw that, and I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Already? I haven't even gotten over that experience. Oh, man. Yeah. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

Well, Lisa Rinna, it's been so fun talking to you. I would keep talking to you, but we've got.

[Lisa Rinna]

But you got more things, too.

[John Lovett]

We've got more to do. Lisa. Rinna is going to stick around. Lisa, thank you so much. That was so wonderful to talk to you.

[Lisa Rinna]

Thank you, guys.

[John Lovett]

When we come back, Rachel Bloom is here.

[Producer or Announcer]

Tate, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Helix. Boy, it's cold in LA. It was almost 52 degrees. I had to put on a sweatshirt with a fleece lining to walk pundit this morning. It's nice to get cozy, whether, you know, in the upper Northwest, it is so cold that there's a genuine risk of trees exploding. Oh, my God, the trees. It's so cold. The trees can explode. That's crazy. You can just be. You'll just hear it from the woods because liquid's inside. Yeah. It expands and kabooms. The point is, stay inside, get cozy with a Helix mattress. I have a Helix mattress. It's great. I took the Helix Sleepwiz, got a dawn luxe because I like a firmer mattress though honestly I like my sleep habits are changing and sometimes I think like do I need a softer mattress? Do I need to switch my Helix mattress? But the one I have is so comfortable so I don't know. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. You can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. They even have a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixleep.com love it. For 27% off sitewide, that's helixsleep.com off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name at checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com love it. This show is brought to you by AG1 February routines often reset after January motivation dips. AG1 supports consistency even when motivation isn't perfect. AG1 supports daily nutrition even when schedules are unpredictable, whether that's weekend trips, hosting friends or late night watching the game. AG1's next gen is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrition gaps. With 75 plus ingredients including five probiotic strains, AG1 replaces the need for multivitamin probiotics and more Health routines don't need a full rebrand every year. Sometimes it's the small things you do every day, even when everything else is chaos. One scoop of AG1 every day is the easiest thing you can do to add to your routine. For daily immunity Support this winter, AG1 provides nutritional support to help you stay steady and consistent avoid that winter slump. Daily energy support to help keep you moving through the winter. Powered by superfoods and B vitamins. One of my resolutions was basically making sure I start by having getting the probiotics and getting a multivitamin and getting the protein all at once so that I know that whatever happens for the rest of the day, I'm covered. AG1 is a great, great way to do that. Visit Drink AG to get three AG1 travel packs, three AGZ travel packs and vitamin D3 plus K2 free in your welcome kit with your first subscription order. That's Drink AG1.com love it. And we're back. Please welcome to the stage a woman who does it all. And by all I mean sing, write, act and help me rob a convenience store once. It's Rachel Bloom. Look at this.

[Lisa Rinna]

Hi.

[Rachel Bloom]

I thought we'd never talk about that night. I was watching you. When I walked in, you were in the leather jacket. I'm like, oh, we're gonna look like the hottest girlfriends.

[Lisa Rinna]

Really?

[Rachel Bloom]

And like, one of us. One of us is the controlling one who's like, no, you're wearing leather. It's you.

[Lisa Rinna]

It's me. Yeah, for sure.

[Rachel Bloom]

Like, we're in a. It's a Behind the Candelabra situation. Remember that movie?

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Lisa Rinna]

I love that movie.

[Rachel Bloom]

And Liberace was like, get plastic surgery to look exactly like me.

[Lisa Rinna]

I loved it.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's totally what our dynamic would be.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And I would do it.

[Lisa Rinna]

And I would be like, go now.

[Rachel Bloom]

And be like, it's 3:00am but okay.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Hi.

[Rachel Bloom]

We're in the month of love.

[John Lovett]

We're in the month of love. Rachel, this is real. My mother said this to me, and I quote, I saw that you have Rachel Bloom on the show this week. Please tell her I say hello.

[Lisa Rinna]

Wow.

[Rachel Bloom]

And I really. The harshness of that tone is just pitch perfect for Jewish mom. Now tell her I say hi.

[John Lovett]

I will. Do you remember the last we met?

[Rachel Bloom]

One time.

[John Lovett]

One time.

[Rachel Bloom]

It was lovely. We had a great conversation. Okay, this is not a. Why are you saying it in such a serious tone?

[John Lovett]

Now? The last time, do you remember, you were on this show. My nephew did have to leave the theater because you and Robbie Hoffman were talking about pegging.

[Rachel Bloom]

Sure were. Sure were.

[John Lovett]

And Lisa, have you ever harried his hamlin?

[Lisa Rinna]

No.

[John Lovett]

Sorry if that's too intimate.

[Lisa Rinna]

No, we have not.

[Rachel Bloom]

I was saying. I have also not. I'll just use the Harry my Hamlin. Because if I say my. Your husband's more famous than mine, so, like, I haven't danned his Gregor, that means.

[Lisa Rinna]

Okay.

[Bill McGrath]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

That kind of makes.

[John Lovett]

Now, Rachel, as you mentioned, it is the month of love, as we're always calling it. You created the show Crazy Ex Girlfriend.

[Rachel Bloom]

Thank you.

[Lisa Rinna]

Great show.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'd say currently watch it on, but it's streaming nowhere. But you can buy it on Amazon and itunes. Will it be yours forever? I don't know. Do I want it to be streaming? Yes. Does anyone at the company of CBSP get back to me? No, they're trying. I just want to get ahead of that.

[John Lovett]

I believe you can get 1600 pen by printing DVDs. So the world is made up of.

[Rachel Bloom]

Did that last a season?

[John Lovett]

A whole? Well, I mean, it depends. Not in the 22 episode era, but today was a long season of 13 episodes.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

It was a 13 episode.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's how many episodes of Fleabag there are total.

[John Lovett]

That's right, actually. Yeah, that's a good point.

[Rachel Bloom]

So you could really tell people that you had the show that inspired Fleabag.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, like, we were trying to do something that, like, had that fleabag, definitely.

[Rachel Bloom]

Bag feeling, and the world just wasn't ready.

[John Lovett]

I mean, In a sense, 1600 Pen was a cult classic for years before Fleabag even existed.

[Rachel Bloom]

This is a really relatable conversation.

[John Lovett]

Now, as we discussed earlier with Lisa and Rachel. I know this is true to you too, that you both have great marriages in a town where they're, let's say, rarer than one would hope. But it's time for a segment we're calling 36 questions to fall in Love. It because it is the month of love. And so I have before me the 36 questions that lead to love, created by psychologist Arthur Aron, popularized by the New York Times, designed to speedrun intimacy, the goal to make you fall in love with me, or worst case, each other. First up.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's already happening, man. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

First up. This is for both of you. If you could wake up tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would it be?

[Rachel Bloom]

The ability to not let strangers hurt me.

[John Lovett]

Ooh, what a. Wow, that's so interesting, because I find that you're talking about words.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, I guess. You know what it is, is the ability for infinite self compassion. That's really what it is.

[John Lovett]

Well, because I see that as the same. I see why you would say the same thing. Because for me, the only words from strangers that hurts are the ones I believe. Because people could say. People say all kinds of crazy things about me every day. Lisa is all positive on the Internet, but. Yeah, right.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, yeah, exactly.

[John Lovett]

It's just her and Malala out there, but the.

[Lisa Rinna]

Ah, so lucky.

[John Lovett]

But that's. That's. That's interesting.

[Rachel Bloom]

There are times that if you look at Malala's Instagram where she gets hate for things, and I'm like, what are you doing? You're trolling Malala.

[Lisa Rinna]

Like, yeah, wow.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I think the other side of the trip. Go.

[Rachel Bloom]

Go to a Baskin Robbins. Get ice cream.

[John Lovett]

For sure.

[Rachel Bloom]

You need ice cream.

[Lisa Rinna]

Or go masturbate something.

[Rachel Bloom]

Go masturbate. Exactly.

[John Lovett]

Honestly, those are two great things that go great together. Yeah. That's a good night. That's a good night. We're talking about Lisa. Is there any quality or ability you wish you had that you'd like to add to your repertoire?

[Lisa Rinna]

I like to be invisible.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Lisa Rinna]

I like to be able to, you know, like, walk through walls and be invisible when I'd like to be and just disappear when I want.

[Rachel Bloom]

I didn't Know, magic powers were a thing, so. That's really smart.

[Lisa Rinna]

I just added it.

[Rachel Bloom]

I would also probably choose a magic power if that were actually an option.

[John Lovett]

Okay, noted. Rachel, when is the last time you sang to yourself or to someone else?

[Rachel Bloom]

I mean, I sing to myself, pathologically, all the time.

[Lisa Rinna]

Same.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, it's like.

[Lisa Rinna]

I sing all day long.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's little. Is it songs that you know, or is it songs that you make up in your head?

[Lisa Rinna]

It depends. Like, when the kids were little, I would sing, you know, nursery rhymes all day long. The wheels on the bus go round and round and all of those. I don't do that anymore, but when I do. Then you should be worried now.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Rinna]

You know, like, if I'm in the shower singing, you know, the Alphabet or farm songs, you should be a little concerned.

[John Lovett]

Do you know they changed the Alphabet to get rid of lmnop? So now they sing it in a different cadence.

[Rachel Bloom]

What are you talking about? What are you talking about?

[Lisa Rinna]

That is against the law.

[John Lovett]

B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P. Sorry.

[Lisa Rinna]

No, no, no. What is that, like a trump thing?

[John Lovett]

No, it's not a trump thing.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's the one thing that isn't.

[John Lovett]

Honestly. It might be the kind of thing that led to Trump, but that is wrong. Well, the kids. Because when I was a kid, I thought L, M, N, O was. But it's baffling. It's a. What?

[Rachel Bloom]

That people think L, M, N, O is one letter.

[John Lovett]

It's confusing. You can't keep track of what the letters are inside of. L, M, N, O.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yes, you can. It's really easy.

[Lisa Rinna]

L, M, N, O, P.

[John Lovett]

Now, Rachel, I know you can't.

[Rachel Bloom]

We're just gonna move on from that.

[John Lovett]

I don't know how to resolve it.

[Rachel Bloom]

You just.

[John Lovett]

I'm not.

[Rachel Bloom]

You just dropped.

[John Lovett]

I'm the messenger.

[Rachel Bloom]

We killed bin Laden. Esque bomb. And we're just supposed to skate on by.

[John Lovett]

They spread out the letters a little bit evenly to make it easier for the kids to remember the letters. Bill, you what? Honestly, listen to yourselves. A tiny bit of change and you're like, make the Alphabet great again. I don't care that it's helpful. I don't care that it's a little bit better for the kids. I like how I like it. Think about it. Think about how you're behaving.

[Rachel Bloom]

Wait.

[Lisa Rinna]

Sorry.

[Rachel Bloom]

H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S. What is it?

[John Lovett]

Where you started, you'd already fucked it up, so it's it's just the whole thing had to be adjusted. Everything moves around.

[Rachel Bloom]

H, I, J, K, L. Basically M, N, O, P, Q, R, something like that. S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z.

[John Lovett]

Exactly.

[Lisa Rinna]

I can't really. No fun anymore. They took all the fun out of it.

[Rachel Bloom]

They took all the fun out of the Alphabet song. Fucking Malala.

[John Lovett]

Now. Damn it. But there are plenty of things we're putting the fun back into, like the devil wears Prada 2 that you're in.

[Rachel Bloom]

I am.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yay. Oh, who is? My daughter. My youngest daughter is also in it. Yeah. I mean, I don't think she speaks, but she's in it.

[John Lovett]

Cool.

[Lisa Rinna]

She's in it. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Wait, we got a sidebar after this about it. I don't think we were in suit, but I want to. I want to. Oh, I want to hear her story.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah. I think she was at the Met Gala thing.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Yes.

[Rachel Bloom]

That was where she was, huh? Yeah. Okay.

[Lisa Rinna]

Anyway, go on.

[Rachel Bloom]

They asked me when I was talking to producers. They're like, what can you talk about with Devil's Prada, too? And I was like, I think nothing. I signed an NDA with Mickey Mouse himself.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And if I say anything, he'll be like, oh, bitch, you're fucked.

[John Lovett]

So can we just assume that Andy's boyfriend finally gets what's coming to him? The villain of Devil Ras Prada.

[Rachel Bloom]

He does fall into a volcano and his entrails spill out from his. No, I. I also. That's. That boyfriend never bothered me. I don't know. Like, I. She. Yeah, I don't know. She was miserable at the job. He was calling it out. I don't. I. I don't know. I'm. I think it's just a very good. I think I can't separate the, like, reprimand of the boyfriend from, like. Well, is this a. Is this a writing note? Because I think it's a really well written movie. And also, one of my best friends wrote the movie and wrote the new movie, and so I'm prot of her vision in general, maybe.

[John Lovett]

I think the movie's great. I just think that's right.

[Rachel Bloom]

I know a writer, so play your cards.

[John Lovett]

I like the movie. I just think the devil in the film is the hero. Anne Hathaway shouldn't throw her phone in the fountain. She should finish the week and then give notice to be respectful for the opportunity. And Adrienne Grenier should appreciate that. It's cool to be ambitious in your 20s.

[Bill McGrath]

Yes.

[Rachel Bloom]

But structurally, it's Faust.

[Lisa Rinna]

Right.

[Rachel Bloom]

And so.

[Lisa Rinna]

Right, right.

[Rachel Bloom]

If you're doing Faust, you don't say, hey, devil, I'm gonna stick around in hell. I've never read Faust or seen Faust, by the way, I'm saying Faust. I actually don't know much about Faust.

[John Lovett]

Well, we've seen. We've no Damn Yankees.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, so then I know Faust. So.

[John Lovett]

And. And about a dozen episodes of the Twilight Zone.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, exactly. So you don't say to Applegate and damn Yankees, like, hey, I'll just play this one World Series. And then, you know, I'm gonna peace out and be with my old wife. No, you have to leave then, because your contract with the devil ends at that midnight and you want to go back to be with your old wife. Is anyone remember what Damn Yankees is about? Because that's what it's about.

[Lisa Rinna]

No. Okay. I don't. I liked it, though. Cause Bob Fosse, I love the dancing, but I don't remember it all.

[John Lovett]

Devil's bargain, Lisa.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes, I am the devil's bargain. Pretty much. Right? I know.

[John Lovett]

Is there something that you've dreamed of doing for a long time? And if so, why haven't you done it?

[Lisa Rinna]

Ooh, well. Huh? You're stumping me. What have I dreamt of and why haven't I done it? Okay, you know what I'd like to do? Here's what I would like to do. I want to be like a lounge singer in a bar. I'm not kidding. Or sing at weddings.

[John Lovett]

I'm just going to throw this out there, Okay. I am getting married on Memorial cereal day weekend of this year.

[Rachel Bloom]

That would be fucking iconic. That would be great.

[Lisa Rinna]

You just said, is there something that you'd like to do that you haven't done? And why haven't you? Well, I don't know. Those are the. Yeah, I'm gonna sing in a bar or at your wedding.

[John Lovett]

Wow. Oh, this is exciting.

[Rachel Bloom]

What do you think your staple song would be?

[Lisa Rinna]

I would like to do, like, what Isaac Mizrahi does at the bar at the Carlisle. That would be really fun. And just like, get up there and sing like My Funny Valentine and like, you know, bar songs. Whatever Lola Want, like, I would be good, don't you think? There we go. Good tie in. See, I knew that. Wouldn't that be kind of fun?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

I also think you could get that show up at the Carlisle, like, tomorrow, today, like, right. Like right now.

[Lisa Rinna]

I think I just put it out there in the universe. So now probably I'm gonna have to do it.

[Rachel Bloom]

You're gonna get a call from them tomorrow.

[Lisa Rinna]

Hello.

[John Lovett]

This is exciting. This is a good. This is a good episode.

[Lisa Rinna]

Good.

[John Lovett]

Rachel, what, if anything, is too serious to be joked about?

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, God, I don't fucking know.

[John Lovett]

Hey, follow up. You have a new.

[Rachel Bloom]

I mean, I. I actually oyve. I don't know if anything is too serious to be joked about, to be honest, because I think when you put things on a pedestal of you can't talk about that, and you start to police that, I think humor is the great equalizer. And it's also a way of, I think, relieving a lot of tension. And so I think that when you say you can't talk about something or joke about something, you only add to the tension and stigma of it. And no, I will not give examples.

[John Lovett]

I totally agree. I think there's no topic that you can't joke about. This ends up being a debate, and we make this show because my view of it is no topic is too serious. But if you are gonna joke about a serious topic, you have to be careful about the ethic of the joke. And that if you are making a joke about something serious, that the punchline is not about someone or something that doesn't make light of suffering in some way, and that you can defend it on the merits of what it means. And that is where we. And sometimes they're like, yeah, yeah, we get it, John. The joke is ethical. Everyone's gonna boo you, and you'll be an asshole. And I'. You've made an important point.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

To me, I see it more as. And this is just maybe coming from more of a writing comedy perspective. I just think jokes that feel like, ooh, that's punching down, or that's a really offensive joke, they're just lazy. I think I associate them. Like, years ago, when we first started talking about rape jokes, my. Oh, everyone got so quiet. My experience with a lot of rape jokes was just like. Like, they were hack. They were hacky jokes that comics would make where they just weren't good comics. Like, I remember I got introduced at some open mic. This is probably 16 years ago, where someone was like, rachel Bloom's coming. She better watch her drink. I wasn't, like, affronted. I was like, that's just a lame, stupid joke. That's just a lame roofy joke. And so I think that I. I think if you look a lot of. A lot of, like, offensive comedy, it's like, oh, it's also just, like, easy and lazy.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it gets a. It's a shock value if the joke is because it's a shocking thing to say.

[Producer or Announcer]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And it's shock that it's territory other people have tread before. And so you're just being lazy.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[Rachel Bloom]

And no, I will not give more examples.

[John Lovett]

Lisa.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

What does friendship mean to you?

[Lisa Rinna]

What does friendship mean? It means that you have someone that has your back and you have somebody's back.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I think that's nice. I think that's right. I just. I always think that it's, like, almost as simple as a friend to someone you root for. Right.

[Lisa Rinna]

Like, I think, oh, I like that.

[John Lovett]

If you're rooting, you know, And I. And I say that because I think obviously there are a lot of people you root for that are not your friends. But I actually think sometimes that's a helpful way to think about it, because I think sometimes people have people in their lives that are around them all the time that feel like or look like friendships. But are you rooting for each other? Because sometimes you're not.

[Lisa Rinna]

Sometimes they're not. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's actually a beautiful way. I have a. I was talking about wanting self compassion. I have this thing called the Self Compassion Workbook, which I highly recommend for you.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, I want to get that. That sounds great. Awesome.

[Rachel Bloom]

And it's been. It's literally.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

I need that.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's wonderful. And it's just a literal workbook where you work through kind of once a week. This is your exercise. That's cool. And one of the exercises is, like, think about a person for whom you have completely uncomplicated feelings of, like, I just want the best for them. And you say to yourself, I think it's like, I wish the best for. In my head, it was honestly, my friend Betsy, Betsy Sedaro. I was like, oh, I just love her, and I want the best for her. And then it's like, all right, now, instead of Betsy, do it for yourself. How? And I was like, oh. And it was such a revelation of, like, the uncomplicated, like, love I have for, like, Betsy. Like, what if that's how I felt about.

[Lisa Rinna]

That is a great message. Not beautiful. That's beautiful.

[John Lovett]

I really like that.

[Lisa Rinna]

I really like that.

[John Lovett]

And this is for both of you. This will be our last question. And it is from the questions to fall in love. Do you have a secret hunch about how you will die?

[Lisa Rinna]

I do not.

[Rachel Bloom]

I was just thinking about this today because I just flew in from New York today, and every time I get on a plane and I'm like, oh, what if what if this is the time and I was in New York to be on the show beat Bobby Flay, which was so fun. But I was also like, oh, my God. Like, I think about my daughter. The story that my daughter is gonna tell herself is, yeah, she took me to school and then she went to be on Bobby Flay and I never saw her again.

[Lisa Rinna]

That would be sad, actually.

[Rachel Bloom]

It would be so just sad. Like she couldn't ever watch a cooking show. She maybe couldn't even go to restaurants and engage in like high quality food.

[John Lovett]

I think that's wishful thinking.

[Rachel Bloom]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

I mean, I get the not watching the cookie shows, but I think she'd be. Eventually be able to go to restaurants.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, I guess so. But every.

[John Lovett]

I'm not saying you wouldn't be traumatized and horrible, but she could go, but you do that.

[Rachel Bloom]

Like, I don't know if this. I mean, when you become a parent, you know, your heart is filled with constant fear. And I, every time I'm away, about to go on a plane, every facetime or phone call I have, I picture that I'm in the part of the movie that's her flashback to, like, that's the last time I saw her in my mom.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

It's dark.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

I don't like it.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I don't like.

[Lisa Rinna]

I don't like to help with that.

[John Lovett]

But I have the same. So I have the same broken part of my brain because for me, like once I was in a happy relationship, all my fears went into like, if the phone. I've said a version of this in the past. It's true. When the phone, if our call ends, there has been a building collapse. I'm like, in my mind, that was it. That was why I went out. Yeah. Call gets dropped. Something horrible has happened. And I know that that's not true, but that's like the feeling right away. And then you have to get back in touch to make sure there hasn't been some sort of gas explosion or something of that sort.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's heav Jewish, I was going to say. This is some fucking epigenetic shit. But this is also why your ancestors, like survived a pogrom. Probably because they were like, maybe we. Maybe we hide out in the latrine or whatever, you know, that's why I.

[John Lovett]

Have meerkat energy, I think. And that was how we all fell in love. Everybody traders on Peacock and. And Lisa's memoir. You better believe I'm going to talk about it. You can pre order it now. It'll be in stores on February 24th. And.

[Rachel Bloom]

Do you want me to plug myself?

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Call back. Right. Come on. Excellent, excellent.

[Rachel Bloom]

I have occasionally plugged myself.

[John Lovett]

Oh, that's cool. That's cool.

[Lisa Rinna]

Wow. I finally caught up to that. I just like got that.

[John Lovett]

And the Devil Wears Prada 2 is out on May 1st. And Rachel's new show, do youo Want Kids, which you are producing with your husband.

[Rachel Bloom]

I just wrapped a pilot for ABC that I'm starring in that I co wrote with my husband. So this is a pre plug that if it gets ordered to series, it'll be on in the fall and maybe.

[Lisa Rinna]

You'Ll write a part for me. Never know.

[John Lovett]

Right?

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah, I can say I was sitting right here when you said, I hope it gets picked up. And if it does, I go, hi, here I am.

[Rachel Bloom]

I love the. I love this for the show.

[John Lovett]

Lot of good stuff coming out of this episode.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

All right, we'll be right back.

[Producer or Announcer]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Producer or Announcer]

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[John Lovett]

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[John Lovett]

And we're back. Before we get to some second thoughts, some news attention every everyone in the Washington D.C. area who hasn't asked a plastic surgeon for Mar a Lago face, Love it or leave it is coming back to D.C. on April 23rd at the Lincoln Theater. Will the White House Correspondent's Dinner cancel on a comedian again? Who's to say? But no one can cancel this show because I booked the theater. Doors will be locked from the inside. It is now a tradition. We're gonna do a big show in D.C. around that correspondence dinner weekend. Tickets are available for presale right now and this is the first time anyone has gotten the code as I say it, so you're the first to be able to use it. Which is What, a week? One word, all caps to get the best seats in the [e-mail] events. Okay, Lisa, Rachel, we know I am a perfect man, but am I a perfect host? It's time to find out in our favorite new end of show segment, second Thoughts. Here's how it works. I'm gonna just say some things that I think maybe I screwed up and I'll just see how you feel about it.

[Lisa Rinna]

Okay?

[John Lovett]

First of all, I think I took a little too much time kind of Patting myself on the back about the joke transition from plantar fasciitis to arch support. We probably also could have used one more Bungino rhyme. I think we were missing the third beat because I think you guys really liked the second one and you really took to it. And of course, we should have had a third one just in the hop. Stupid. That's our fault. That's our fault. Lot going on when you put this show together. You don't catch them on. Just want you know, that was a mistake. It's hard. It's always darkest before the dono. That. That's perhaps.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Rachel Bloom]

So it's also like wordplay.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it could have. It only could be wordplay because it turns out nothing rhymes with. With Bongino, when you think about it. Hey. Hey. Lisa. Yes. You shared a really meaningful and poignant personal story about your family. And then I just followed it up by asking if you were gonna be on Traitors All Star.

[Lisa Rinna]

Yeah, that sucked. You were terrible at that. That was really like. Like, you take me down the road of, like, my father, you know, dying, and then you ask me if I'm gonna be on Traitors All Stars. So do you think that's good reporting? And, I mean, does that make your guests feel comfortable?

[John Lovett]

So here's what I would say. I say those could be two different things. Cause the joke did work.

[Lisa Rinna]

They laughed.

[John Lovett]

They did laugh.

[Lisa Rinna]

They did laugh.

[John Lovett]

So what's crazy? Do you want to know something? I've done that before to someone else.

[Lisa Rinna]

Who?

[John Lovett]

Do you remember? Anybody remember that exact thing I did?

[Lisa Rinna]

Mrs. Arquette.

[John Lovett]

Oh, it was Patricia Arquette.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, I love her. I love Patricia. All right, so I'm in good company.

[John Lovett]

Do you remember when I did that?

[Lisa Rinna]

How did she respond? She's not alike. That.

[John Lovett]

Honestly. Here's the difference. This is the difference, honestly. And I think it's interesting, which is because Patricia was vulnerable and she did that. I felt so bad.

[Lisa Rinna]

And I'm not.

[John Lovett]

No, no, you are. You are. You are. But there's a toughness to you. There's a toughness to you. And so I, like, I feel less like. I feel more like you are. Right. I could have been a better host, but I'm out. Like, it wasn't like I. I didn't feel like I had to quickly fix it. Cause I'd, like, hurt you.

[Lisa Rinna]

No, I was not hurt exactly.

[John Lovett]

And I don't think I hurt Patricia Arquette. I think she could handle little old me. But there's a toughness that comes across with you it's interesting. Not that you can't be vulnerable and tough, but that was both. I saw both, I see both.

[Rachel Bloom]

But I also don't blame you. I blame society, and I'll tell you why.

[Lisa Rinna]

For what?

[Rachel Bloom]

Everything in society now is like, when I started, like, Kim and Epping comedy, it was still very Gen X of, like, don't be a sellout. Like, don't sell mer. Don't sell merch at your shows. Don't, like, don't try to plug yourself. And now we're in a plug culture. So every serious pod. I mean, this is like a clam at this point. But, like, every serious podcast is like, and that's when the child died. Do you need a new mattress? You know, and, like, and it's. And it's horrifying. And, like, the way people, like, go on social media, like, like, Instagram's fucking broken because you have the, you know, one grid post about someone's past trauma with, like, an eating disorder, and then the next grid post is just like, I love these cupcakes. And it's like, oh, it's.

[John Lovett]

It's.

[Rachel Bloom]

All our lives are whiplash right now. The way we consume media is whiplash. So I feel like you whiplashing to another thing from a serious thing. We're not calling out most of social media for doing that, so why should you be held accountable?

[John Lovett]

Well, that's interesting. That felt like I thought it was gonna come back around in a better way for me at the end, but I will say the actual thought process was. And this is interesting to me. I think, let's get into it. Which is. I thought you'd already said something so beautiful and poignant and I needed to get out of it, but I didn't think it was necessary to have to push you to give even more. You had already done what needed to be done. So I was putting a button on the whole thing, which I did quite well.

[Lisa Rinna]

You did. You did. You did.

[John Lovett]

So that. So I did think about it.

[Rachel Bloom]

I also want to say, if someone posted about an eating disorder and then posted about cupcakes, that actually might be two related inspirational posts. So that was a bad. That. That's me critiquing myself. That that was actually a bad example of, like, if you have a fucked up relationship with food, and then you're like, I love cupcakes now. Actually, that's really inspirational. So I just don't want to. I'm just. I'm already seeing the, like, medium Think piece. And so, like, not that I'm like even important enough to merit a medium think piece. But, like, just in case someone was, like, planning a medium think piece, I want to get ahead of it and I want people to have the relationship with food that best suits them.

[John Lovett]

And then I think just one final one. Hey, I'm sorry I made everybody sad and mad about the new Alphabet and then compared you all to Trump.

[Lisa Rinna]

And.

[John Lovett]

Then I feel pretty good about putting Lisa on the spot about singing at the wedding.

[Lisa Rinna]

That was fine.

[John Lovett]

I can't tell if I should ask Lisa to sing a few bars or not.

[Lisa Rinna]

Oh, let me think. What would you like me to sing?

[John Lovett]

Whatever. You. What was the you you had said you wanted to sing a a a a like a piano bar song with Isaac Mizrahi. What would you sing?

[Lisa Rinna]

Let's think. Come rain or come shine. How does that go?

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm going to love you like nobody's.

[Lisa Rinna]

Loved you Come rain or.

[John Lovett]

I can't believe you haven't been singing at bars. Given that there are housewives who couldn't find a note with a magnifying glass, a shovel, and who are singing all across the country. So that's exciting. I'm staying tuned for future attractions, future cabaret shows. All right, well, that's how we have to leave it. That second thought. Great. Rachel Bloom, Lisa Rinna. This was so much fun.

[Lisa Rinna]

So fun. Thank you. Thank you.

[John Lovett]

That is our show. Thank you so much to our guests. Tune in next week for a Valentine's Day surprise episode.

[Rachel Bloom]

Are you getting double engaged?

[Lisa Rinna]

Are you getting pegged?

[John Lovett]

I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this, Lisa Rinna. I'll tell you this, Lisa Rin. If I ever do get pegged, it will be behind the paywall. And that's our show. There are 269 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great weekend. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free. Love it or Leave it and Pod Save America episodes subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign [e-mail] friends love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our Associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufmann, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre and Subba Agrawal are our writers. Jordan Kanter is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Cher. Sure. Thanks to our designer, Sammy Caderna Rees for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers, David Toles, Claudia Shang Mia Kelman Delon Villanuel Nueva and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt De Groat and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Producer or Announcer]

If you guys like Pod Save America, please consider subscribing to our Friends of the Pod program. So Friends of the Pod get lots of stuff. You get more Pod Save America. That includes our new show which is called Pod Save America. Only Friends. It's where Dan gets naked, where Dan gets full frontal nudity. But mostly it's a bi weekly subscription exclusive podcast that is basically Pod Save America but behind a paywall so it's a little bit looser and more fun and it's love it. And Favreau and me and Pfeiffer and.

[John Lovett]

Then other crooked hosts.

[Producer or Announcer]

We go deeper on the news and cover more stories. You also get Open Tabs, which is a weekly behind the scenes newsletter from the show. Plus you get ad free episodes of your favorite crooked podcasts and all kinds of other stuff. Dan will come to your house and clean it once every quarter. Yeah, Clothed Dan is very busy. Clothed only. But along with just getting great content, becoming a Friend of the Pod joining our subscription community is the number one thing you can do to help us grow to help independent progressive media. So if you're ever thought about doing it, if you ever wanted more Pod Save America, consider going to cricut.com friends and becoming a friend of the pod.

[Lisa Rinna]

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