Democrats Rocked By Good News

Summary

Lovett or Leave It: "Democrats Rocked By Good News"

Date: November 8, 2025
Host: Jon Lovett
Guests: David Krumholtz, Ana Gasteyer, Victor Jones (musical guest)

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Episode Overview

Coming to you live from Brooklyn's Crown Hill Theater, Jon Lovett launches a new season with a spirited crowd and two major Democratic victories as backdrop: Abigail Spamberger’s historic win as Virginia’s first female governor, and Zoran Mamdani’s upset victory as the new Mayor of New York City. Lovett, joined by actor David Krumholtz, SNL legend Ana Gasteyer, and musical performer Victor Jones, covers election fallout, Democratic optimism, the state of American politics, and the secret drama behind showbiz curmudgeons.

With his signature wit and exasperation, Lovett skewers cynical campaign tactics, celebrates organizing victories, and explores how politics can connect—or isolate—us. The show weaves through sharp political analysis, pop culture anecdotes, Broadway mishaps, and candid banter, keeping the crowd engaged and inciting both laughter and thoughtfulness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A New Era for Democrats & New York City

• Abigail Spamberger & Zoran Mamdani Wins

  • Lovett opens by reveling in the Democratic wins, noting the shock and delight across the party and the media establishment.
    • “In a development that has rocked the corporate establishment, confounded the stodgy notions of what is possible in our politics, sent a shiver down the spines of Republicans across the country… Abigail Spamberger has won her race for governor of Virginia.” (05:52)
    • On NYC: “Zoran Mamdani’s improbable campaign has ended in victory. He will be the next mayor of New York City.” (06:13)

• Cuomo’s Defeat and Political Cynicism

  • Lovett ridicules Andrew Cuomo’s failed, fearmongering campaign and AI attack ads, framing his loss as a win for both policy and decency.
    • “I think there’s a good case to be made that Andrew Cuomo ran the most cynical political campaign in any of our lifetimes… I am very glad that New York said fuck off to that.” (09:02)
    • “Now Republicans are going to use this victory by Mamdani to try to dump all over this city. And you know what? They’re welcome to it, because New York is just one big genderless bathroom now.” (08:29)

2. Rhetoric, Fear, and the Shifting Democratic Coalition

• GOP & Trump Attacks

  • Lovett mocks GOP attacks on the new mayor, AI-powered smear ads, and Trump’s threat to block funding to NYC.
    • “Trump said flat out he will do everything in his power to block funding to New York if Mamdani won. Posting: ‘If Mamdani wins, it is highly unlikely that I will be contributing federal funds…’” (15:50)

• Mamdani’s Campaign Strategy & Broad Coalition

  • Mamdani’s openness, ability to answer hard questions, and focus on persuasion and government reform are heralded as a model for future Democratic campaigns.
    • “Mamdani built a massive, enthusiastic base of support…and at the same time, shown a genuine willingness to listen to and bring in more skeptical voices… because he is in the game of persuasion. Of addition.” (16:20)

• Lessons for National Democrats

  • Lovett highlights lessons from the 2025 elections: energy, coalition-building, and the power of organizing.
    • “The Times described the campaign as an antidote to loneliness, about the meaning and connection and community politics can create. That is a lesson for Democrats across the country.” (19:44)
    • AOC quote: “This is about, do you understand the assignment of fighting fascism right now? And the assignment is to come together across difference, no matter what.” (20:46)

3. Democratic Wins Coast to Coast

• State Races Roundup

  • Spamberger (VA), Ghazala Hashmi (first Muslim woman in VA statewide office), Mikie Sherrill (NJ), and other down-ballot victories celebrated.
  • “We won a mayor’s race in Miami, picked up two state Senate seats in Mississippi, won judicial contests in Pennsylvania, and passed that constitutional amendment to make all cybertrucks gay.” (23:22)

• Trump’s Senate Meeting & Filibuster

  • Lovett teases Trump’s calls to abolish the filibuster and fears of Democratic power moves: “They’re going to pack the court, they’re going to make D.C. a state, and they’re going to make Puerto Rico a state. So now they pick up two states, they pick up four senators...” (25:10)

4. Interview: Ana Gasteyer on Comedy, Broadway, and Childhood in Political Washington

• Comedy vs. Singing, SNL and Broadway

  • Ana reflects on being underestimated as a singer, her journey from voice major to SNL comedian to Broadway star, and the physical challenges of playing Elphaba in Wicked.
    • “If you’re known from television and then you’re accidentally a really good singer, it’s upsetting to people.” (33:18)
    • “It’s Olympian… You just worry about [your voice]… Very physically challenging, above and beyond the actual vocal pyrotechnics.” (39:04)

• Show Mishaps & ‘No-Fly’ Nights

  • Gasteyer delights in telling ‘no-fly’ stories—the rare Broadway nights when stage technicals fail and improvisation reigns.
    • “You can feel that it’s starting to come up. So what these guys do—it’s theater—they lay on the floor… You just do it like… and you’re sitting there thinking, these people spent so much money and they’re now seeing the kind of show your family would force you to watch in the basement on Thanksgiving…” (41:00)

• Political Upbringing

  • Ana recounts childhood memories of the White House and the Camp David Accords.
    • “I was at the Camp David Accords… Menachem and Anwar Sadat. And the President watched Amy and friend Ana Gasteyer play Lightly Row on the violin… Mrs. Carter came in and said, girls, brush your hair—the Sadats are coming over to watch Star Wars.” (36:01)

5. Interview: David Krumholtz on Range, Hollywood, and Curmudgeons

• On Typecasting, Range, and ‘Jewish Coded’ Roles

  • Krumholtz riffs about his roles, “range,” and whether Jewish actors must always ‘perform’ their Jewishness.
    • “I actually played up the Jewishness in [Addams Family Values]…I am. I carry the cross.” (54:45)

• Showbiz Curmudgeons & Bombing on Sitcoms

  • Krumholtz and Gasteyer swap tales of legendary curmudgeons, failed sitcoms, and the indignities of live-audience TV.
    • “There’s nothing like bombing in front of a live audience with someone else’s bad jokes, you know are bad.” (59:46)
  • Memorable Story: Ed Asner, oatmeal, and on-set rebellion.
    • “Ed Asner had a mouthful of oatmeal and spit it all over Alan Rafkin’s head, his face, it was like in his nails...” (62:04)

6. Game: "Arma-Kmudgeddon" – Ranking Famous Curmudgeons

Game Mechanics: Guests must ‘blind rank’ New York (or honorary New York) curmudgeons from 1 (most curmudgeonly) to 5.

• Fran Lebowitz, Bernie Sanders, George Jefferson, Andy Rooney, Larry David

• Spirited debate about each, lots of riffs on Jewishness and classic comedy.

  • Lovett: “So in hindsight, is it four Jews and George Jefferson?” (67:03)
  • Ana: “80% of these people have IBS.” (76:53)

• Krumholtz on Larry David: “Do I think he’s like that in real life? Probably to some extent.” (71:01)

• Danny DeVito Story:

  • Krumholtz’s notorious backstage clash with DeVito, and ultimately quitting the production:
    • “He cursed me out so bad for the…there was a line… Then why do you say it like a question? … And that was after a long string of abuse. I said, I need a break…” (74:19)
    • “My dad…always the guy that was like, take the money and don’t complain…he was so upset… Good for you, son. Don’t take shit from anybody.” (75:30)

7. Musical Performances: Victor Jones

• Original Song #1: "I Get Hurt" (02:29)
• Original Song #2: "Shoulder Song" (91:24)
  • Between songs, Jones debunks rumors his music is AI-generated by reading lines from his notes app.
    • “It just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what AI is capable of in the modern era. … These are many different dates from over the course of years… This is how my brain works.” (88:39)
    • “Not AI. My notes app, everybody.” (90:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Lovett on Cynical Campaigns:
  “I think there’s a good case to be made that Andrew Cuomo ran the most cynical political campaign in any of our lifetimes.” (09:02)

• Channeling Doris Kearns Goodwin:
  “Said Doris Kearns Goodwin to the television at her friend’s house, because you know she’s one of those people that doesn’t have a television.” (08:12)

• Victor Jones on AI Music Accusations:
  “I had a whole response plan which was inclusive of points like AI being generative from lots of sources… But I thought it would be a lot more fun to just pull up my notes app and prove this is how my brain works.” (88:39)

• Ana Gasteyer on Broadway’s Grueling Reality:
  “The second act costume is…£40… I was so skinny when I was doing the show. All of the—the bucket’s really heavy, the stupid spell book… My fascia blew up, had a triangle of bloat between my ear and my shoulder…” (39:04)

• David Krumholtz’s Rant on Freedom & Nihilism:
  “It seems that we are in a period of chronic dissatisfaction in this country because we confuse freedom with abundance… Now what we’ve become is this drama, like, desperate for drama, desperate for chaos… Democracy is not so thinly spread… It’s actually the strongest form of government… So perhaps be strong, be positive… I’m saying maybe calm the fuck down.” (82:00–83:45)

• Ana on Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House:
  “He’s so fucking smug… Now he’s like the guy who thinks he’s landed in, like… big dick of Cock Island, and it’s so enraging. Everyone’s vagina dries when he walks into the room.” (85:26)

• Lovett on Marjorie Taylor Greene:
  “Whatever the fuck is going on with the rehabilitation of Marjorie Taylor Greene… It’s more than a twice a day now. Broken clocks aren’t right this often. What’s happening?” (86:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening monologue & election aftermath: 05:28–21:13
• State-by-state victories & analysis: 21:13–26:45
• Victor Jones musical performance ("I Get Hurt"): 02:29–05:28
• Ana Gasteyer interview – on SNL, Broadway, Camp David: 31:24–47:39
• David Krumholtz interview – on “Jewish coding”, showbiz, curmudgeons: 50:03–63:04
• Arma-Kmudgeddon game: 63:12–77:02
• Rant Wheel (Krumholtz, Gasteyer, Lovett): 81:39–87:38
• Victor Jones AI discussion: 88:17–90:51
• Victor Jones musical performance ("Shoulder Song"): 91:24–97:45
• Closing, thanks, and call to action: 97:45–100:00

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Tone and Style

Lovett’s signature is sharp sarcasm, joyful exasperation, and political clarity, seamlessly blended with the comic stylings of his guests. Crowd energy in Brooklyn is high, with humor both self-deprecating and incisively pointed at public figures behaving badly.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is a must-listen if you:

• Want context and celebration around surprising Democratic wins in 2025’s off-year elections
• Appreciate candid, hilarious conversations about Broadway, SNL, and Hollywood’s real personalities
• Crave smart, irreverent takes on American politics from a progressive, activist standpoint
• Enjoy authentic musical artistry from up-and-coming talent Victor Jones
• Need the optimism (and humor!) of Lovett and friends after years of political fatigue

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Transcript

[John Lovett]

Love it or leave it is brought to you by bombas. This time of year, it's sensory overload everywhere. This time of year. What's the part of the year where our eyes have sweet relief? One feeling we're still chasing cozy. Okay, Bombas has the socks. This is a Bombas ad. They have socks, slippers, basically everything to get you there. There's something weirdly therapeutic about fresh socks and the sock. Scientists at BOMBAS have found ways to channel that energy into everything from slippers with sink in cushioning to the perfect fitting ankle sock. And that feeling just it doesn't stop after one wear. It keeps going. They've got answers for all your gifting questions too. Like what do I get my son's new marathon training girlfriend? Bombas running socks, you dopes. What about my neighbor's fussy newborn baby? Bombas fit like a hug, you dopes. And they're designed to feel soft and stay snug on even the wiggliest of toes. You dopes. Yeah, you freaking dopes. BOMBAS is really stepping up their slipper and slide game this season. They've got new shapes, new styles, fluffy things, suede things, a little something for every foot. And if there's one thing BOMBAS knows, it's feet. And we haven't gotten to the best part. For every pair of Bombas you purchase, Bombas donates one to someone facing homelessness on your behalf. So anytime you get something cozy, someone else does too. I love Bombas. I wear them basically every day. They are super comfortable, they are super well made, they have a lot of great styles. I don't know where you would buy socks if you're not buying them from bombas. That's where you should go to buy your socks and your slippers. I also Love the slides. Bombas.com Love it. Use code Love it for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com Love it. Code Love it at checkout on the night before Halloween in 1975, 15 year old Martha Moxley was murdered. But police failed to make an arrest until in 2000 her one time neighbor.

[Victor Jones]

Michael Skakel was arrested.

[John Lovett]

He was also a cousin of the Kennedys.

[Victor Jones]

The Kennedy connection is the reason that.

[John Lovett]

Most people know about this case. But the deeper I dug, the more I came to question everything I thought I knew. Search dead certain the Martha Moxley Murder to listen now wherever you get your podcasts and follow to get new episodes every week. Hey everybody. I wanted to do something special for our New York show. It is great to be here in Brooklyn. So now with a special musical performance, please welcome to the stage, Victor Jones.

[Victor Jones]

All right. This song is called I Get Hurt. Sometimes I see nothing in people. Here is the church and here is the steeple. I'm sending you an invite to a networking event. I'm in your building and I'm crawling through the vents. I am a product of time and motion. I know the best bodies for beer in Brooklyn. I'm in the garden and I'm eating all the dirt. I get hurt. There's a guy on the subway on the saxophone he's got nothing waiting for him back at home he sees a big green beanstalk blocking the sky. I got my foot in the door. I got a barbecue bible in southern charm. I got skin in the game with none of my arm. I'm at the funeral home trying not to flirt. I get hurt, Chandelier comes down.

[David Krumholtz]

Did you bring in a bullet?

[Victor Jones]

She went back to the back with.

[David Krumholtz]

The guy with the bullet.

[Victor Jones]

Chandelier comes down, she went back to the bag with a guy with a mullet. I get hurt real bad. I close my eyes, Chandelier comes down. You went back to the bag with the rain on the hundred. It's too cold, start to shiver. I don't want you. Start to shiver. I get hurt. I get hurt. Thank you, guys. Enjoy the show.

[John Lovett]

What's up, Brooklyn? One more time for Victor Jones. Such a fan. So glad they did this. Getting that guy on the fucking rise. You're gonna think I was there when I saw Victor Jones play welcome to Love it or Leave It Live at the Crown Hill Theater. We have got a great show for you tonight. David Krumholt is here. Ana Gosteyer is here. Tonight we're gonna let out some battle cries, rank some cranks, and in the spirit of New York, rant our asses off. But first, let's get into it. What a Pretty good. In a development that has rocked the corporate establishment, confounded the stodgy notions of what is possible in our politics, sent a shiver down the spines of Republicans across the country. Moderate former CIA officer and member of Congress Abigail Spamberger has won her race for governor of Virginia. And here in New York, there was a municipal contest that's also garnered some attention. Yes, Zoran Mamdani's improbable campaign has ended in victory. He will be the next mayor of New York City. All right. Could you imagine if Cuomo had won and had to walk out here? What a godforsaken episode that would have been.

[David Krumholtz]

Look, Cuomo winning.

[John Lovett]

It would have been bad for New York, but it would also have been bad for me. But we'll never know that world. Here's Zoran in his victory speech.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Too many among us have turned to.

[John Lovett]

The right for answers to why they've been left behind. We will leave mediocrity in our past.

[Victor Jones]

No longer will we have to open.

[John Lovett]

A history book for proof that Democrats can dare to be great. But there are still a lot of good lessons in there. Said Doris Kearns Goodwin to the television at her friend's house. Because you know, she's one of those people that doesn't have a television. Now Republicans are going to use this victory by Mamdani to try to dump all over this city. And you know what? They're welcome to it. Because New York is just one big genderless bathroom now. I think the New York Post put it best. The Red apple, on your marks. Gets set. Zo. Socialist Mondani wins. Raised for mayor. The fear mongering disgusts us. The word play delights us also. It's pretty good, but 90. Lennon was right. I'll just. I saw it move slowly across 9 Lendon. New York not only elected Mamdani. New York rejected Andrew Cuomo. I was thinking about this and genuinely I like. I'm open to hearing what the alternatives would be, but I think there's a good case to be made that Andrew Cuomo ran the most cynical political campaign in any of our lifetimes. Like not just Democrats. Like Democrat, Republican, Like I can't think of a campaign as cynical as the one he ran. And so I am very glad that New York said fuck off to that. Cuomo was working so hard to bury his opponent. You think Zoron lived in a nursing home in April of 2020? Here's a video Cuomo posted on Halloween.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Where's your costume?

[David Krumholtz]

Duh.

[John Lovett]

I'm a socialist.

[Victor Jones]

Hey, man.

[Ana Gasteyer]

God, that guy was crazy.

[John Lovett]

Socialists are terrifying. In fairness, Cuomo can't stand when someone grabs at a woman without first threatening her job. Or let's look at Cuomo's other AI ad in which all the evils of earth get together to vote for the guy. I'm a criminal. I'm a criminal. I'm a criminal.

[Victor Jones]

I'm a criminal.

[David Krumholtz]

Yep, I'm a criminal.

[John Lovett]

For Zoron. For Zor. I'm Mom D. It's funny now. It's amazing how far we've come technologically. Only yesterday it felt like ads like this were only made the old fashioned way. With just a lone cartoonist drawing ethnic stereotypes for a right wing German newspaper, Congressman Andy Ogles tweeted literal footage from 911 with the message, wake up, New York. Of course, someone with the name Ogles supported Cuomo. Cuomo also won the endorsement of Alderman Jack Fondle and Governor Hansey McQueesum. And this is serious. When Dick Cheney saw that 911 was being politicized for a reason other than regime change in the Middle east, he died. Fucking chill out. It's not fair. Because one of Dick Cheney's final public acts was unlike a lot of Republicans voting for Kamala Harris. In a statement, he said, quote, trump can never be trusted with power again. As citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship, to defend our Constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris. And then one year later, I will free solo El Capitan. Sadly, Dick Cheney died of food poisoning shortly after free soloing El Capitan. But back here in the city that never sleeps and you can kind of see it in your faces. I'm sorry, you're right, you're right. I could have done a pander there, you know, a city that never sleeps and stopped electing creeps. That was an option. Should have done that. That's the mood. Andrew Cuomo himself laughed at the idea of Mamdani cheering 9 11. God forbid, another 9 11.

[David Krumholtz]

Can you imagine Mondani in the seat? I could. He'd be cheering. Another problem.

[John Lovett]

Cuomo is doing Islamophobia in a city with 1 million Muslims. As if voting is haram. And speaking of haram, on Monday, Trump came out of the closet as a Cuomo sexual saying. Mamdani's principles have been tested for over a thousand years and never once have they been successful. And of course, we all remember what happened in the year 1022 when Emperor Basil II, nicknamed the Bulgar Slayer, led the Byzantine army to victory over the Georgians at Swindex, thus allowing him to enact his free buses policy. Added Trump, whether you personally like Andrew Cuomo or not, you have no choice. You must vote for him and hope he does a fantastic job. He is capable of it. Mamdani is not. Trust me. Trump continued, I know a great New York mayor when I see one. As through the window, he watched Rudy Giuliani, fully nude except for a flat flapper's bando around his forehead, running from Secret Service at the Mar A Lago pool, laughing and shouting, I'm Gatsby. I'm Gatsby. I wasn't driving. I wasn't driving. Now, Trump also said flat out he will do everything in his power to block funding to New York if Mamdani won. Posting If Mamdani wins, it is highly unlikely that I will be contributing federal funds other than the very minimum as required to my beloved first home. Now, how did Cuomo respond to this? And to me, this is the capstone, the Islamophobia, the fear mongering, the outside money. It all led to what Cuomo said next. Now, he could have said we're all New Yorkers and nobody in this city should be bullied into voting for me or anybody. But no, he said, if you want President Trump to try to take over the city, National Guard on streets choking federal funding, vote for Zoran Mamdani. He told New York to give in to the threat that for me alone, was a reason to treat elected office like any woman in your life you care about making sure Andrew Cuomo never again got within 100 miles. Back in the 1970s, when Cuomo's father, Mario Cuomo, was running for mayor against Ed Koch, posters started showing up around the city with the slogan, vote Cuomo, not the homo, because Ed Koch was rumored to be fabulous. Many believe that Andrew was the one responsible for those posters, though he denies it. Mario Cuomo lost in the primary to the homo, then ran in the general and lost again. Mario Cuomo catching strays. And now here we are all these years later, and Ed Koch and Mario Cuomo are in heaven, kissing because everybody is into everything up there. Nothing else makes sense. Think about it. Cuomo and Trump and wealthy backers like Bill Ackman wanted New York to be afraid of a caricature. Some of that caricature is based on Nandani's actual past comments. Some of it is created by exaggerating or lying about what he has said in the campaign or what he's promised to do. But most of it requires just ignoring, ignoring who Mamdani actually is. Mamdani built a massive, enthusiastic base of support in this city, and at the same time, he has shown a genuine willingness to listen to and bring in more skeptical voices into the coalition. When he faced hard questions, I asked them myself. He answers those questions without defensiveness or hostility because he is in the game of persuasion, of addition. That is to say, he acts like a person. More Democrats should try this. The truth is, whether or not Mamdani makes buses free or builds five grocery stores, that alone won't determine whether or not he succeeds. The job of mayor is A role that requires attending to disparate parts of a coalition. It requires finding ways to adjust and negotiate and persuade and get to. Yes, in those few precious moments between attending parades. The job is mostly parades, and Mamdani has tried to do that. Not to the satisfaction of everyone, but he has certainly tried in conversation. He is animated by top line policies, yes, but also by a project that should unite every part, not just of the Democratic coalition, but of the pro Democracy coalition, which is making government work again. He came out in favor of the housing reforms which pass. He talks about fixing ridiculous and onerous processes that stymie construction and business development. He talks about what it will take to make transit faster, safer, and easier to expand. What was clear going into Election Day is that the outcomes under a Mayor Cuomo would be pretty limited and familiar. But what's exciting about Zoran Mamdani, even for those who have skepticism, is it is possible to imagine an outcome far more terrifying to people like Cuomo and Trump and Stephen Miller, which is that he can succeed. Which is why Trump's out there right now, depressed, trying to process his feelings by making Scott Besant do his gay voice while driving a bulldozer through a wall of the Roosevelt Room. And by the way, the fact that Zoron has excited so many people isn't just about electoral success. A vision that captivates people, that doesn't just earn votes, but earns genuine loyalty. It gives you space to govern, to operate, to make hard calls. Trump actually gets this instinctively. Many Democrats do not. Here's Chuck Schumer when asked who he was voting for.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Today is Election Day in New York City.

[John Lovett]

Did you vote for Mondani or Cuomo? Look, I voted, and I look forward to working with the next mayor to help New York City leadership. He then said, what's that? While throwing a bag of loose day old bagels at Brian Schatz to create diversion. But he walked away so slowly, he was still there. He's like, aha. Not a magician. Now Schumer is worried about Republican attacks. And I get why. When you lead a party that the country sees as aimless and weak, it is far easier to be defined by your opponents. But it means in a moment like this, you're afraid of attacks from both the left and the right. And so you stand for nothing. And boy, does that look aimless and weak. The New York Times had a piece about the 90,000 New Yorkers who volunteered for Mamdani's campaign, a number in which I assume many of you are included. Especially the hot ones. The Times described the campaign as an antidote to loneliness, about the meaning and connection and community politics can create. That is a lesson for Democrats across the country. Schumer doesn't seem to understand that his job is proving to those young people that he is on their side instead of being afraid of Republicans saying that Zoron is on his aoc, put it best last night.

[Ana Gasteyer]

We have a future to fight for, and we're either going to do that together or you're going to be left behind. And I think that that is not a partisan issue. It's not about progressive. It's not moderate, it's not liberal. This is about, do you understand the assignment of fighting fascism right now? And the assignment is to come together across difference no matter what.

[John Lovett]

And, boy, did a lot of New Yorkers come together. Last night when Zoron was asked if there should be room for more moderate candidates, as we saw in New Jersey and Virginia, he said, quote, absolutely. I think that it has to be a party that actually shows Americans to see themselves in it and not just be a mirror image of. Of just a few people who are engaged in politics. To me, what binds us all together is who we are fighting to serve, and that is working people. That is the lesson of the 2025 elections. Who is the future of the Democratic Party? We all are. Centrist candidate Abigail Spamberger, in a nice change of pace for a former CIA officer, successfully overthrew a regime in America and will be Virginia's first female governor. State Senator Ghazala Hashmi won the Lieutenant Governor's race, making her the first Muslim woman elected to statewide office in Virginia. An amazing accomplishment because, based on an AI video I just saw, she was also apparently the architect of Girl 9. Eleven, that is. Meanwhile, the Virginia Attorney General's race was rocked this fall by a scandal. Democratic candidate Jay Jones sent texts in 2022 in which he imagined shooting the Republican speaker of the Virginia House in the head and urinating on the graves of other Republican politicians. And I am sorry that I did not reply to those texts, Jay. I was in the middle of a breakup. We had the midterms. 2022 was like a wash for me. Jones apologized profusely for the text, as well as for a reckless driving conviction in which he drove 116 miles an hour. I know. Honestly, I feel like the tech's got the focus, the driving is insane. 116. That's too fast, Jay. Too fast. But he's on track to win Virginia by a greater margin than Kamala's victory last year, which suggests that Kamala would have fared better with voters if she had threatened to murder Joe Biden on the View rather than say she would govern like him. In New Jersey, Democratic congresswoman and former Navy pilot Mikey Sherrill won the governor's race. This marks the first time New Jersey voters elected two governors of the same party in a row since the 1960s. The last time New Jersey was perfect. Any people from New Jersey here tonight? Oh, wow. California voted to redraw our congressional maps to help Democrats improve our chances of winning the House despite Republican gerrymandering. And if Arnold Schwarzenegger doesn't like it, he can fight me and he can tell him where to find me. Podcast host Tommy Vitor. Democrats also won two Georgia commissioners races in a blowout, the largest margin in the state in 20 years. We won a mayor's race in Miami, picked up two state Senate seats in Mississippi, won judicial contests in Pennsylvania, and passed that constitutional amendment to make all cybertrucks gay. Now they're all swishing around out there. And despite a lot of COPE online, Trump said it pretty clearly when meeting with Republican senators at the White House.

[David Krumholtz]

I don't think it was good for Republicans.

[John Lovett]

I. Whoa, sir, slow down. Your mind works too fast. We can't keep up. Trump once again urged Senate Republicans to abolish the filibuster, claiming that Democrats would do so if they retook the majority. They're going to do it the first day, they're going to pack the court, they're going to make D.C. a state, and they're going to make Puerto Rico a state. So now they pick up two states, they pick up four senators. Okay, you think you have problems?

[David Krumholtz]

They're going to do all of the things.

[John Lovett]

They're going to pick up electoral votes. It's going to be a very, very bad situation. From your weird tiny lips to God's perfect giant ears. One part of why there's a reluctance, I think, on the part of Senate Republicans to get rid of the filibuster, which they're obviously not going to voice, is if there's no filibuster, it's no longer Democrats that are stopping the craziest shit House Republicans can pass. It's the least conservative Senate Republicans. Suddenly, all the political pressure that now kind of spreads diffusely across the Congress will land just in the emails of Susan Collins and whoever else is going to consider themselves. What we used to call Republican right wing conservatism but now represents sensible moderation. Like, it'll all fall on those types. And they don't fucking want that. They want to be able to blame Democrats. They want to stop some of the craziest, batshit, bat, dumb, ding dong, fuck, fuck, bat, wing, wing, bat, ding, bat stuff that comes from the worst House Republicans. So that's a little bit of something that's protecting the filibuster. Doesn't mean they won't kill it in the end. But it's nice to see. Nice to see Trump explaining what we could do. And now let's live out.

[Victor Jones]

New York will remain a city of immigrants, a city built by immigrants, powered by immigrants, and as of tonight, led by an immigrant. So hear me, President Trump, when I say this. To get to any of us, you will have to get through all of us.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, said Chuck Schumer, wriggling into a Hot Girls for Zoran T shirt, trying to act like he'd been there the whole time.

[Victor Jones]

We believe in standing up for those we love. Whether you are an immigrant, a member.

[John Lovett]

Of the trans community.

[Victor Jones]

One of the many black women that Donald Trump has.

[John Lovett]

Fired from a federal job, a single.

[Victor Jones]

Mom still waiting for the cost of.

[John Lovett]

Groceries to go down.

[Victor Jones]

Or anyone else.

[John Lovett]

With their back against the wall, your struggle is ours, too. Whether you're trying to haul a granny cart full of dirty laundry up the steps of the seven train or stuck behind the person hauling said granny cart, your struggle is ours, too. Whether you're a Miranda who thinks she's a Carrie or a Charlotte who thinks she's a Carrie, whether you're asking the bagel place to scoop out the bagel or you're behind the person in the line thinking, oh, yeah, that's your problem. The bagel's interior. Whether you're a rat fighting a pigeon or a pigeon fighting a rat, we're all in this together. So way to go, New York. And now let's remember this feeling because one year from now, we've got midterms to win. But first, we've got a great show tonight. Next up, Ana Gasteyer has a wicked attitude. Hey, don't go anywhere.

[Victor Jones]

There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Victor Jones]

Yeah, he eats Sundays and you know.

[John Lovett]

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[Victor Jones]

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[John Lovett]

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[Ana Gasteyer]

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[John Lovett]

And we're back. Please welcome to the stage SNL Legend, star of stage and screen, and one of the best Elphabas to ever leave green grease paint all over Broadway. It's the wickedly talented Anna Gasteyer.

[Victor Jones]

Hi.

[John Lovett]

Thank you for being here.

[Victor Jones]

Come on.

[John Lovett]

So nice to meet you.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Thank you. And also with you.

[John Lovett]

I think you're the first Elphaba I've ever met.

[Ana Gasteyer]

You've never been to Mass, evidently.

[John Lovett]

No, I've. I've. I've been to. I've been to a. I've been to a confirmation.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

And I've been in a lot of European cathedrals.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yes, that. That counts. That counts. It's all good. We're. We're moving on. It was just a thank you. Go back to your compliment, please. Your transitional compliment.

[John Lovett]

You were Elphaba.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I was. I'm not sure that was a compliment, but, you know, it was a statement.

[John Lovett]

You know that everyone says there's a. People say that comedians want to be rock stars and rock stars want to be comedians.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

I think because you are known for being so funny, I don't think you get enough credit for being an amazing singer. And when I tell people, you know, that Ana Gastar was an amazing Alphabet, people are like, she was. I'm like, get your heads out of your goddamn asses.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I'm impressed that, you know, it was pre bootleg because it was so long ago now, which is shocking because I was like the third or, I don't know, fourth Elphaba or something real early. It was before the producers knew that it was helpful for people to bootleg their performances for ticket sales. So, like, the second that someone would bootleg something and you would see, like the. Maybe the picture of, like a bottom of a duffel bag and like a little bit of your face and go up and down, they would pull it off the Internet. So just like in the last. Because of the movie, more old Elphaba tape has resurfaced. And so it's. Yeah. I feel like people are just kind of maybe figuring it out. It's just weird. Cause it's a totally. It's understandably confusing is what I'm trying to say. Because if you're known from television and then you're accidentally a really good singer, it's upsetting to people.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. You know, God doesn't give with both hands, they say.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I mean, I was going to be a vocalist. I was a voice major. That's how I started my life. Like, that was the first thing that I did. Well, my parents wanted me to be an opera singer, which was a bad fit, but, you know, so I went to Northwestern to be a voice major. And then go, Cats. And then. Thank you, Rao. And then. But then, you know, Chicago's the birthplace of improv comedy, and I met the funny people, and some, you know, things happened that I started inappropriately laughing in a couple of lectures, you know, ethnomusicology lecture, and I was asked to leave. And so I called my parents, I transferred to the school theater, and then I kind of never looked back, but because in comedy, you use your toolkit, like, whatever's available, you're gonna use it in sketches or whatever. So I always kind of sang. And so I came to it in a really backwards way. So by the time I was in New and I was doing SNL and I was kind of singing in character, you know, casting, people would call me in. And then when I left snl, I was like, okay, in earnest. I'm gonna start studying again.

[Victor Jones]

And.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Because, as I'm sure you know, the human voice doesn't really mature until your 30s.

[John Lovett]

Really?

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, it's one of those weird. Yeah, it's like marathoning. Like, you don't really get good at marathoning until you're a little bit older if you're a guy. Like, really after 25. Same thing with the human voice. So I knew I was, like, young enough to go back and study. And then those shows that I did, you know, Elphaba and Threepenny Opera and Sondheim's Passion, like, I did all these shows that. It's a very Olympic experience. Eight times a week. Your voice just gets better.

[John Lovett]

What is that?

[Ana Gasteyer]

Like, you can wake up now. A gentle slumber came across the audience.

[John Lovett]

No, see, that's the comedian you. You want them to be laughing. No, no, no. Saying something so interesting.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I just. They were. Were so gentle. It was. It was a gentle feeling.

[John Lovett]

They're a sweet and gentle.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Late night last night.

[John Lovett]

They're very supportive.

[Ana Gasteyer]

It's Brooklyn. They had a rough. A big fun night.

[John Lovett]

So people cheered themselves up at the Cuomo hq, you said. Yeah, people were. It was like sort of gallows humor.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Gallows humor.

[John Lovett]

I have so much I want to talk to you about.

[Victor Jones]

Go.

[John Lovett]

So you brought up your childhood. You were friends with Amy Carter.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I was friends with.

[John Lovett]

And you used to go to the White House.

[David Krumholtz]

I did.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Used to.

[John Lovett]

Did you go to the parts that were torn down?

[Ana Gasteyer]

They're gone. I was in the. It was in the movie theater, the beloved movie theater, that they Were just talking about.

[John Lovett]

It's a historic place.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I know, because we. The first time I ever went to the White House was to see Pete's Dragon starring Helen Reddy. Yeah. Because. And I mean, you probably read this and it is weird to talk about, but it is now that I used to not talk about it at all because it felt gross and braggy. I don't know why. But anyway, so. Cause I was at the Camp David Accords. And as you can tell, I literally was. And that obviously it worked. Middle east peace has been accomplished. I went to the Camp David Accords.

[John Lovett]

I like to say Jimmy Carter loosened it for Trump.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I went to the Camp David Accords. I was there. I was there. If you look it up in the paper, it's insane. It's like Zelig, where they're like the first day they couldn't report on anything. They were like Menachem and Anwar Sadat. And the President watched Amy and friend Ana Gasteyer play lightly row on the violin. Like we both played some like Suzuki. That was the cause. It wouldn't report on anything. And then that night Mrs. Carter came in and said, girls, brush your hair. The Sadats are coming over to watch Star Wars. And that is a true story. And what's really sad is that I didn't. It didn't really spark a lifelong interest in the Middle East. I was just fascinated that you could see Star wars in your house. It was so mind bending in whatever 1977, to have a movie in your house. It was insane. Anyway, as you can see, I left Washington.

[Victor Jones]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

Now back to Broadway.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Sure. Anyway.

[John Lovett]

You're on Broadway? Yes, I saw Wicked at the Kennedy Center.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I'm so excited that you're into this. I would never guess this about you.

[John Lovett]

Oh, yeah.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Anyway. Are you from Washington?

[John Lovett]

I think of why not. What are you from Washington? I worked in D.C. right.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Of course.

[John Lovett]

But I'm not from there. I'm from New York. But I saw Wicked for the first time with my mother because the President has a box at the Kennedy center. And if the President isn't gonna use the tickets, you can get into like, kind of like a lottery or to get the tickets. And I got them. I took my mother to see Wicked and sitting to my right was the late Senator Harry Reid, who did fall asleep. Sure.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I have a good story after this.

[John Lovett]

And I stood up applauding at defying gravity. And then I looked over and Harry Reid out cold. I was like crying, applying.

[Ana Gasteyer]

But I was gonna say it's very, very hard to fall Asleep during Defying Gravity. It's very loud, but he was.

[John Lovett]

Harry Reid was very good at it.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

But I've seen it a couple times, and it is. I can't imagine the stress of having to try to hit that. The battle cry night after night.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yes. I mean, it's insanely Olympian and exhausting. And that's all you do is worry about that and worry about your voice, and you're just an annoying person who worries about it. It's like being an athlete. You just. Whatever. Sleep and water and all the things. And you're very mean to people with children who might have colds, you know, that kind of thing. But more than that, it's very physically challenging. I mean, above and beyond the actual vocal pyrotechnics. It's really. In Defying Gravity, what's so hard is, like, that you've. The broom. The broom, and you're flying, and you're supposed to look like you're flying, and the green and all of the costumes. I guess Idina Menzel must be, like, a very method actress because everything is very real in the show, and once it's set on Broadway, it's set. So, like, the second act costume is. That costume is £40, somebody. It's so heavy. I was so skinny when I was doing the show. It was so Herculean. Like, all of the. The bucket's really heavy. The stupid spell book. Like, if it were. It's like a phone book, you know, like, I'm serious. My, like, fifth or sixth performance in Chicago, my fascia blew up, and I had sort of like, a triangle of bloat between my ear and my shoulder. And they ran me to the ER and everything. And it turns out it was just from the weight of the phone book, spell book in the backpack, in the book bag, like, pushing against my neck for eight shows. And I came back and I was like, can we just do balsa wood? That's what we did in our town in high school. But anyway, they just replaced it. It was very, very heavy. That's what's hard. That's actually what's hard.

[John Lovett]

Was there ever. So there are rarely shows, but it happens where the lift doesn't work and you have to do the best.

[Ana Gasteyer]

It's the funny. This is my favorite thing in the world. I don't know if it's just entirely audio.

[John Lovett]

There's video.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Is there video? Okay. Because, you know, it's Broadway, so they're pros, and it's great. So since you seem to be interested in Wicked. I'll tell you about it. So the way that it works, you know, most people think, oh, is it like a harness or whatever? You know, all the flying techniques. It's a cherry picker. So it comes out from the back wall. It's hidden by curtains and so forth. And it's a long arm that comes in a little sort of. It clasps around you. I don't know what to call that, a clasp. What, a claw? Yes, like a claw sort of goes around your waist with a faux skirt. So your own skirt.

[John Lovett]

I was telling them, never ever do that again.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Okay?

[John Lovett]

You never correct on a gasteyer in my presence.

[Ana Gasteyer]

He'll help me. He'll help me. So it comes together like this and actually I thought it was just you throwing your voice and you're kind of running forward. And then the idea is like in the wizard of Oz, those big scary guards come up and they hold their spears up at you and they go, seize her. And whatever, they run up and just at that moment you fly up in the air. The whole thing elevates, right? So it's Broadway, it's the big leagues. They've got to be planned. Obviously. They're not going to fuck around with this, right? So it happened once in the Chicago production I did, and it happened once on Broadway. Okay, you're coming out, you're running away. It's me, it's. And you're not moving. You can feel that it's starting to come up. So what these guys do, it's theater. They're tall, they got big hats, they got spears, they go. And they lay on the floor.

[Victor Jones]

And.

[Ana Gasteyer]

They go, she's her. So then you stand, you stand like this and you fly over. And the whole time, the whole. So they cannot find me. You just do it like. And you're sitting there thinking, these people spend so much money and they are now seeing what basically amounts to the same kind of show you're family would force you to watch in the basement on Thanksgiving. You know what I mean? When kids are like, come see our wicked. You know, one of them. It's so hilarious.

[John Lovett]

Well, for the true freaks, their dream is to be there on a night.

[Ana Gasteyer]

A no fly night.

[John Lovett]

A no fly night.

[Ana Gasteyer]

A no fly night.

[John Lovett]

I was there. I was there. The guards lie down on the ground. Yeah, that's so funny.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I also had one where the elevator didn't come up in no good deed because it comes up through the pit. And I was. I'm actually out of breath, which is not a great sign for My physical fitness, because I just did a very light impression of someone lying down.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Which. Which is upsetting. But anyway, in Back in the day. So you start elegant. You're like, crazy. That. Right. No good deed.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm freaking out.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Okay, so you're.

[John Lovett]

What? I'm being cool, but this is awesome.

[Ana Gasteyer]

All right, so you're down there and you're singing, and then the elevator comes up, right? And it's all smoky and you've got this kind of lectern with your spellbook and you're making spells and it just didn't go up. And so it's so great because the music had already started. There's a little monitor I'm way under. I'm a whole floor down there in the pit. And it's the greatest thing when things go wrong. Because for every actor that's keeping their cool, there is a dresser losing their shit. And somebody's going, but it's not fucking going. The elevator's not fucking going. But it's like people are melting down. And you're just Eleka Non and Nana Eleka Non. You're singing and singing. So it's starting to come up. And at a certain point they're like, go. You gotta run. Like, just. So you're sprint. I sprinted the length of the football field sized theater to a cinder block stairwell where there was no monitor. So you have no idea if you're in pitch, if you're on rhythm, whatever. And they're just repeating this vamp, like over and over. And then you run on. And my lungs are on fire at this point because it's 700 of those, basically, where I lay it down. And then there's just a bunch of monkeys. Like, fuck. I've been here for an hour. It's fantastic. I love mistakes.

[David Krumholtz]

Broadway.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I live for them.

[John Lovett]

So you're in a show of your own? Yes, on December 15th at Town Hall. It's called Sugar and A Holiday Spectacular.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, I mean, it's really just sugar and booze, but I had to make it sound fun, so. It is fun. It's my holiday album. It's a collection of seasonal secular favorites. A lot of songs from the songbook, you know, all the great Christmas songs written by Jews in America and a few originals. The titular song I wrote Sugar and Booze, and we have a great time. It's a holiday spectacular. There's a horn section. There will be giveaways and prizes for people who wear ugly sweaters and a white elephant and all kinds of things. You must come.

[John Lovett]

I would Love to go.

[Ana Gasteyer]

If you enjoy holiday fare, if you enjoy seasonal secular favorites.

[John Lovett]

And I do.

[Ana Gasteyer]

And if you're lucky, I'll bust out the fiddle. I'm not gonna make a promise. I'm not gonna make a promise.

[John Lovett]

You know what's interesting about the fiddle?

[Ana Gasteyer]

Go on.

[John Lovett]

What makes it a fiddle is the song you play on it.

[Ana Gasteyer]

That's right.

[John Lovett]

And so if you take it out and say it's a fiddle, that's a lie. If you start playing Mozart. But it's true. If you play something.

[Ana Gasteyer]

No, if you play Mozart, you call it your axe.

[John Lovett]

It's your axe. This is my axe.

[Ana Gasteyer]

A couple years ago. So I was a very nerd violinist and very sad. A very sad, nerdy violinist. Growing up before I sang, or probably at the same time that I sang, but I didn't know yet. And when I turned 50, I turned to my whole family. They were all like, hey, what do you want to do? Like, special big day? You want to go to Italy? You want to learn how to make pasta? And I said, no, I want to go to country western fiddle camp. And they went, no, all of them. But I went anyway. And I had the best time. I had the best time because it's like improv to opera. It's like just letting it rip a little bit and learning not to be so tied to the page. I really wish I'd fiddled at Camp.

[John Lovett]

David.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Because you know what? We might be in a different position today.

[John Lovett]

And that's a lot to think about about everybody. Go see Anna Gastire at Town hall for Sugar Boo. This was so Sugar Boo.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Thank you so much for having me.

[John Lovett]

We'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or leave it.

[Victor Jones]

Coming up.

[John Lovett]

This ad is sponsored by Better Help. As seasons change and days grow darker sooner, it can be a tough time for many. This November, Better Help is encouraging everyone to reach out, check out on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind the people in your life that you're there. Just as it can take a little courage to send that message or grab coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for therapy can feel difficult, too, but it's worth it and almost always leaves people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner? BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from our tailored recommendations. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easy to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] love it. That's better help. You know how taking care of your headspace means tackling the stuff that stresses you out. Well, for me, that's money. Finances can weigh heavy on your mental health. That's why Experian is my bff, My big financial friend.

[Ana Gasteyer]

The Experian app helps me check my.

[John Lovett]

FICO score, shows me ways to save, and matches me with credit cards. And here's the best part. Cards labeled no Ding decline won't hurt your credit scores if you're not initially approved. It feels good knowing my finances are finally under control. And honestly, that's peace of mind you can't put a price on. Download the Experian app today for free. Applying for no Ding decline cards won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved. Initial approval will result in a hard inquiry which may impact your credit scores.

[David Krumholtz]

Experience.

[Ana Gasteyer]

And we're back.

[John Lovett]

My next guest is an incredible actor who gives off pure, uncut New York energy, which I am not using as euphemism for Jewish, but maybe I am. I don't know anymore. Please welcome to the stage the incredible David Krummels.

[Victor Jones]

Hey.

[John Lovett]

Hi. Thanks for being here.

[David Krumholtz]

Thanks for having me. Hello. Yeah, there I am. I. I'm not even Jew. I have no interest in being Jewish. I'm an individual.

[John Lovett]

I can adapt.

[David Krumholtz]

Yes, hello. Could you use Jew? Am I.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, fuck. All right, let's get through this, all right?

[John Lovett]

I'm already having fun. I like.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah, we'll be fine.

[John Lovett]

So you're in the Bruce Springsteen movie.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It'S called Deliver Me from Nowhere.

[David Krumholtz]

The what?

[John Lovett]

Deliver me from nowhere.

[David Krumholtz]

I thought you said the little kike from nowhere. For a second, I swear that's what I heard. The little kike from nowhere.

[John Lovett]

And that's what I said.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah, deliver me from nowhere. That's what.

[Victor Jones]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Now you're in the Bruce Springsteen biopic. You live in New Jersey. Do people even let your feet touch the ground anymore?

[David Krumholtz]

Nobody cares. Nobody cares.

[John Lovett]

Have you met Bruce?

[David Krumholtz]

I did meet Bruce when I was filming the movie. And he was a very, very nice person. That's the whole story. He was. He was very nice. And.

[Victor Jones]

And.

[David Krumholtz]

And, you know, he came to the set and everybody, you know, greeted him, and they treat him like, you know, a God. And I walked over and I said, and what is your involvement with this? And he liked that.

[John Lovett]

That's good. That's a good joke. Yeah, that's a good joke. David Krumholtz.

[David Krumholtz]

Thanks so much.

[John Lovett]

You guys want to know something you have in common?

[Victor Jones]

Okay.

[David Krumholtz]

Of course.

[John Lovett]

Anna, you are on an episode of a show called Running Wild, but Wild has an E at the end of it because it's the character's name.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

And, David, you were in a show called Lion's Den. Yeah, but lion was spelled with a Y because that was a name.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I feel like this is a question for a diagnosis for you. I say that with no judgment. It's just an observation, as my mother likes to say.

[John Lovett]

Next question. So I was thinking about. So I first, you were in a very formative role for me, which was Adam's family values.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay, thank. Well, that's nice. Yeah, that was me.

[John Lovett]

And I think it's interesting because to me, like, when I think of you and you can tell me how you react to this, there are times when you are a smart outcast who's kind of nebbishy and nerdy and put upon.

[David Krumholtz]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

There are times where you are dashing and handsome.

[David Krumholtz]

Goddamn right.

[John Lovett]

Then there are times where you go between the two. Like in Freaks and Geeks, you were a former nerd who comes back and is like. Like, there's a future for you in college. You can be confident. Right.

[David Krumholtz]

That's called range, something I specialize in without makeup. I'm the Lon Chaney of my generation.

[John Lovett]

What?

[David Krumholtz]

For the young people, Lon Chaney was the. Ah, forget. Get it? God help us. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

That's interesting.

[David Krumholtz]

Well, thank you. I don't know, Emma.

[John Lovett]

I don't know.

[David Krumholtz]

Should I thank you? I don't know. What?

[John Lovett]

No, I just.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm wondering what I'm thanking you for.

[John Lovett]

Well, what I was going to ask is, do you feel like your character in Adam's family value was Jewish coded?

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, 100%.

[John Lovett]

Because his name was Glickman, I believe.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. Glicker.

[John Lovett]

Glicker.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. 100%.

[John Lovett]

And it feels like that camp is like. They don't ever come out and say it, but they seem like they're kind of anti Semitic.

[David Krumholtz]

Well, they're Aryans. They're Aryan, so, no, obviously. Yeah. I actually played up the Jewishness in that one, which is something I have to do quite often because this really isn't enough. No, I was saying backstage, all the Jewish friends I have that don't. This is. How do you say this? That don't look typically Jewish. That may pass for something that's not. Are really religious. I have done enough. My name is David Krumholtz and I look like this. I'm so not religious at all. I have no interest. I've never been. This is plenty. I am. I carry the cross.

[John Lovett]

In the show. Numbers.

[Victor Jones]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

The E in numbers was a three.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Careful.

[David Krumholtz]

That's right.

[John Lovett]

Because the show was about numbers, right?

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Put down the card. Put down the card.

[David Krumholtz]

In the original. They fucked it up. Because in the original pilot it said three and it would go to a two and a one and the show.

[John Lovett]

Would start because, like.

[David Krumholtz]

And that was brilliant. I was like, let's go. And then they kept the three, but never did that again.

[John Lovett]

In the movie. Seven.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. The V is a seven, which makes no sense because.

[John Lovett]

But it does, because it's about seven.

[David Krumholtz]

I get that. But V and seven don't look alike.

[John Lovett]

Rotated.

[David Krumholtz]

Three could be an E backwards some.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, but the seven is rotated. One is reflected through a vertical.

[David Krumholtz]

It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay, John. You're all right. Don't get emotional about it.

[John Lovett]

Do you think. Hey, do you ever think sometimes you've been typecast as a curmudgeon?

[David Krumholtz]

That's another veiled Jew question. You know, the typecast is a Jew. Yes, I played rabbis. It's a nightmare. But no. Do I ever get Typ cast as a curan. No, I get, you know, lately I'm. I'm an agent in everything.

[John Lovett]

And you're great, by the way, in the studio.

[Victor Jones]

Well.

[David Krumholtz]

And that's true. This is. Thank you so much. The truth is. And this is real, for many years in Hollywood, I would go to, you know, they tell you, hey, go to the parties, be seen. You know. And I would go and people would think I was an agent's assistant because I'd wear a suit and look nice. And people were like, so, what agency do you work for? And I'd say, I. Well, I'm with, you know, whatever. C U T, A. And they would Say in what department? And I said, well, fuck you. This is a traumatic life I've lived. Yeah, it's cozy to rest my mouth on this foam. I just want to say that.

[John Lovett]

Have you have any experiences with some classic curmudgeons?

[David Krumholtz]

Yes, I worked. They're both dead, so I can bash them.

[John Lovett]

It's Dick Cheney. You were telling me backstage.

[David Krumholtz]

What's that?

[John Lovett]

Dick Cheney.

[David Krumholtz]

Dick Cheney, Yeah. I worked with him very closely. What up? Just constantly complaining about his back. No. I don't know. I worked with Alan Arkin, who was quite curmudgeony and hilarious and lovely and way funnier when he was angry than when he was trying to be funny. You ever around someone where they get super duper angry and it's the funniest thing you've ever seen and you have to hide your laughter? He would note it. I see. It's not even funny. I don't know why you're laughing. You know, I was standing on a bridge in Nova Scotia, looking out over a lake, and I thought, I should kill myself, so I'm gonna throw myself in the lake instead. I decided to spend the rest of my life working on myself. I said, wow, thanks for that. And then Ed Asner. Oh, boy, was Ed Asner. I mean, literally the talk about type, curmudgeon type. And I did. I was telling Ana backstage. I have done eight failed multicam series, Multicam comedies, meaning none of them made it past 13 episodes. We all got canceled. They all got canceled. I did eight of those motherfuckers. There's nothing like bombing in front of a live audience with someone else's bad jokes, you know, that, you know, are bad.

[Ana Gasteyer]

We call it turd polishing.

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, God. And I did one with Ed Asner called the Closer. It was Tom Selleck and Ed Asner.

[John Lovett]

Was his last name Closer, or is it just a different.

[Ana Gasteyer]

You know what's weird?

[John Lovett]

I'm sorry.

[Ana Gasteyer]

The E was a three.

[David Krumholtz]

The E was a three? Yeah, the E was a three. Both E's the Closer.

[John Lovett]

Both of these two threes.

[David Krumholtz]

And so what happened was, you know, I remember, you know, Ed was really depressed sometimes, and some older actor came and did a guest spot on the show and said, hey, Ed, how's it going? With a big smile on his face. And Ed said, how can it be going for any of us? And wanted the older actor to commiserate. Like, let's face it, we're old and it's terrible. And the older actor was like, I feel fine. But what happened was we got canceled and they came down and they. From. I don't know why I say came down, but they came over to the set and we were in the middle of rehearsing a scene and said, guys, we've been pulled off the air. We're just gonna finish this episode. We're gonna film this episode. But basically that's it. So why don't we take a 20 minute break, everybody take a break and process this horror that the show has been canceled. Meanwhile, half of us were like, like, thank God. But so Ed took off. And 20 minutes later, the director of the episode was an older man named Alan Rathkin, who had directed a bunch of Mary Tyler Moore and the Lou Grant Show. So they were old friends. And 20 minutes later, we're all back on set, we're going to rehearse the scene, and Ed is gone. And 10 minutes, 15 minutes, we're like, did Ed leave? Everybody's looking for Ed. And finally, Ed came moseying towards set with a large bowl of hot oatmeal. And he's walking slowly and he's just eating this oatmeal. And Alan Rafkin did the whole, hey, thanks for joining us, Ed. Thing. And Ed Asner had a mouthful of oatmeal and spit it all over Alan Rafkin's head. His face, it was like in his nails. And Alan.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Oh, God, Ed.

[Victor Jones]

Oh, gee.

[David Krumholtz]

And we're all like, oh, Ed, man, taking us too far, man. It's not that big a deal. And then we started rehearsing, and in the corner of our eye, I just see, like, people coming over with towels and wiping down this old director. And Ed was, man, that's a real thing that I saw. Yeah.

[Victor Jones]

Wow.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I love that he bothered to come back to do that.

[David Krumholtz]

He did. He came back.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I would have been at the smokehouse on my third martini. I think that's the thing about getting old and cranky. You'd be like, whatever, we're gonna get paid. We're not gonna get fired.

[David Krumholtz]

Let's go. Get up.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, let's get up.

[David Krumholtz]

You know, I. He had a piece of toilet paper on his shoe and I'm glad I didn't say anything.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, I am too.

[David Krumholtz]

You know, I'm glad I didn't say, hey, yeah, you got a piece of. I would have got a. Caught a face full of oatmeal.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Like, that's what you're gonna go for is the oatmeal.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Like, I feel like you gotta look for the most expensive craft service item.

[David Krumholtz]

And pack it up or it's donut time.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Or it's donut time.

[David Krumholtz]

Or it's just donut time.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

That show business.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And now it's time for a game we're calling arma kmudgeddon. Here's how it works. I'm gonna name her curmudgeon who's either from new York or really seems like they should be. David and Anna. You're gonna blind rank that mudge on a scale of one to five, with one being the most mudgeonly, but you won't know who the next curmudge will be.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Ooh, this is.

[John Lovett]

You're ranking them from one to five, but you may. You have to be careful because you don't know who'll be next.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

Okay. First.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. I'm checking to see if she understands it as well. Yes. Okay.

[John Lovett]

I just want to make sure everyone's comfortable.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm fine.

[Ana Gasteyer]

This is fun.

[John Lovett]

Remember Oppenheimer?

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Math, math, math, math, math, math, math, math, math.

[John Lovett]

Do you know that the show numbers is about math?

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. Okay, I'm ready. Yes.

[John Lovett]

We have Vermont senator and Brooklyn's native son Bernie Sanders. Oh, man. Wow. Here's the classic photo from Biden's inauguration.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I was once interviewing Bernie Sanders, and mid question, he went. He leaned back and looked to his aide and went, that's real. That really happened to me. It was a real blow. It was a real blow. That's curmudgeon behavior. That's curmudgeon behavior. Ana, where do you think. Where do you think you're gonna rank?

[David Krumholtz]

Okay, I'm just gonna say he has messages of hope that are veiled under messages of doom and dread. So I'm gonna say he's a three. I'm not gonna give him the number one spot.

[John Lovett]

One is the most curmudgeonous.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm say three, because he is.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I think I was actually gonna say the exact same thing. So much of it is about hope and optimism, so I'm actually gonna go pretty high. I'm gonna go six or seven. I know, I know.

[David Krumholtz]

Isn't it one to five?

[Ana Gasteyer]

There's veiled kindness. There's veiled kindness.

[David Krumholtz]

Asked you if you understood not ranking.

[John Lovett]

Him on a scale of a.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Did you know that if you turn a u upside down, it's a horseshoe?

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Ana Gasteyer]

And that represents luck to a lot of people.

[John Lovett]

Now, some people would say that a movie like 2 Fast 2 Furious also uses numbers, but that's using numbers in a different way.

[Ana Gasteyer]

So, so true. So true. And also, sometimes people refer to a Song as a number.

[John Lovett]

Oh, that's true. Why do they do that? All right, well, let's say. Can we say three? Feel good about three?

[Ana Gasteyer]

I'm gonna. Yeah. So five is our top.

[John Lovett]

Five would be the least curmudgeonly.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yes. I'm gonna say three. I'm in consensus here.

[John Lovett]

Next up, we have Fran Leibowitz.

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, yeah.

[John Lovett]

One thing about leaving your apartment is that there's so many other people out there. The great thing about my apartment, aside from the fact that it's a great apartment, is that I control if there are other people in it. A classic curmudgeon sentence, if I'd ever heard one.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm going to go, you know what? She's really. Yeah, I'm going say number one. I'm going to take a risk and say she's the most curine New Yorker. Well, are there any non Jews on this list? Yeah, okay.

[John Lovett]

I thought about that. I thought about that.

[Victor Jones]

Not.

[John Lovett]

I'll tell you something. Not when we first made the list.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah, I bet. I bet it's hard. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Wait a second, wait a second. Am I doing it? Am I a part of it? Am I. Wait, wait a second.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, I'm gonna just say two because we gotta do the math. You like math?

[John Lovett]

I do. I do like math. Okay. A two from Anna. Next up, we have the character George Jefferson. George Jefferson? What do you mean? You're kidding me. That is a classic curmudgeon. What do you mean? Are you kidding me?

[Ana Gasteyer]

This is how you diversified?

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah, I guess.

[John Lovett]

So, in hindsight, is it for Jews and George Jefferson? I think it might be. And that's something we can talk about after. I don't know how it happened, but let me.

[Ana Gasteyer]

It was a fabulous list of Jews and George Jefferson.

[John Lovett]

But the reason I wanted to include George Jefferson, because Sherman Hemsley is so funny and he was also. He never came out of the closet, but he's rumored to have been gay.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay. You know, he was also a big, psychedelic, tripping hippie guy.

[John Lovett]

Really?

[Victor Jones]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

True story. He was a big, you know, counterculture guy, I'm gonna say. Because he would dance on the show, and he loved wheezy. He loved him some wheezy.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Kindness and hope. Kindness and hope. They always take the number.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

You should have went Red Fox, man.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

You blew it. I'm gonna say five. I'm gonna say five. Yes. Thank you.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I don't want to get canceled, so I'm gonna agree.

[John Lovett]

Smart. Andy Rooney. He's not Jewish, I don't think. Ah. We're good.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, we're good.

[John Lovett]

He's a curmudgeon, right? Not Jewish, I don't think. Is he? Google it.

[Ana Gasteyer]

He's an Irish grump.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah, an Irish grump. You're right.

[Ana Gasteyer]

An old, salty Irish grump.

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, yeah. Stamp me feet.

[Ana Gasteyer]

You know the thing, Rumpelstiltskin.

[David Krumholtz]

That's how he spoke.

[John Lovett]

Imagine the Jewish version of that.

[David Krumholtz]

You just saw it.

[John Lovett]

I did too. Yeah, I just saw it. I just saw it. So where are we ranking Andy now? Wait, wait, we don't.

[David Krumholtz]

I say two.

[John Lovett]

Two. Someone shouted. He was an atheist.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay. What's his nationality, though? I say two.

[Ana Gasteyer]

But he also made a living of curmudgeonliness. Like actively sought out stuff to be bummed out by. You know, that was the whole point of that section. Who needs bird clocks? You know, like, whatever it was. Yeah, I don't need a cardinal to tell me it's 2:00pm I mean, that would be like walking through your day. Just like, you know, why take the pulp out of orange juice? It's not a good example, but you know what I mean?

[David Krumholtz]

I got a pedicure the other day and I gotta tell you, I could do that at home for myself with my teeth.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah. So it actually takes the. It takes. It adds something considerable to the story. Even if it's like. Even if he, you know, just a, you know, functioning, dry, drunk Irish.

[John Lovett]

Crank.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Then, you know, it's still. It's an act. There's active work there. There's not just, I'm not participating, which I think is the bottom. Like the Bernie curmudgeonliness is. I'm too old. I'm not participating. You guys take care of this, you handle it. And then if you're like going up anyway, I've said too much.

[David Krumholtz]

I think Andy Rooney thought he was speaking for the youth. No, he did. I think it was very much. Did you ever. He's trying to get through to like 18 year olds. You ever just put your penis down and think it's lonely? Maybe I should pick it back up.

[John Lovett]

Last up, we have Larry David. Where are we on the Caroline? Where are we on the rankings to this point? Because we're gonna have to put him in a slot.

[David Krumholtz]

Well, that makes sense to me because it's all a joke. It's all a bit. His mind works. He's a comedy machine. It's all a bit. Do I think he's like that in real life? Probably to some extent.

[Ana Gasteyer]

He's very much that in real life.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah, I saw him.

[Ana Gasteyer]

He had to fake an orgasm for four hours on a car rig, driving around Park Avenue up and down. Cause I did an episode of Curb where my running board of my car was broken and we were on a date. And by the time we pulled up in front of my apartment, he was like, do you want to go up? And I was like, no, I'm good. So that's, like, a long time to chat with someone in between fake orgasms. Four hours, just going around and around. And he's hilarious, but he's a crank.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

I sat behind him at a premiere, and he was. His guest was Greg Kinnear. And it was obviously that this was like a blind date business thing. He had never met Greg Kinnear.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Unbelievable.

[David Krumholtz]

And Greg Kinnear was attempting to sort of make fun of him, and he seemed incredibly annoyed by Greg Kinnear.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And he.

[Ana Gasteyer]

He's got the high bar of, like, not. I guess he's got the Bernie thing a little bit where he just. It's not important to him to worry about the niceties of explaining his curmudgeonliness.

[John Lovett]

What an amazing achievement to make. I don't feel like talking to people, and sometimes I'm in a bad mood. Your delightful brand. I know. He can just walk out of any room he wants at any time. And everyone's like, classic Larry. Yes, brilliant. What a genius.

[Ana Gasteyer]

And to take everything insane he's ever done and make an incredible piece of television out of it. I mean, he really did famously storm out of Saturday Night Live, which absolutely everybody has at one point or another wanted to do, and several people have, but where he threw his pages and stormed out. He famously tells the story. It was one of the things we talked about. We were driving around the block.

[David Krumholtz]

Have you ever quit a job?

[Ana Gasteyer]

No, I'm. I'm the worst. I. I just put up with abuse. Take it on and have a lot of extra therapies.

[David Krumholtz]

And I had to quit one once.

[Ana Gasteyer]

You did.

[David Krumholtz]

Because of a curmudgeon.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Okay, go on.

[David Krumholtz]

Absolutely hated me. And every time I told him I loved him, it made him hate me more. And. And. And you have had him on this show, and he fucking loathes me. And I was lovely to him. I worshiped the guy. I would have combed his hair if he asked me to.

[John Lovett]

And he's been on this show.

[David Krumholtz]

He has. Goddamn it.

[Ana Gasteyer]

That's that. Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

And he's curmudgeonly. One of his most iconic characters is an incredibly curmudgeony person. You know who I'm talking about? I don't okay, now, maybe we should leave it that way.

[John Lovett]

We'll leave it there for. That's where we'll leave it.

[Victor Jones]

Oh.

[John Lovett]

Oh, you want that?

[David Krumholtz]

I'll say it. Danny DeVito hated me. And it was so bad that I had to quit.

[John Lovett]

What happened?

[David Krumholtz]

It was unbelievable. I don't want to tell the story, but it was unbelievable. Look, he had just gotten sober and gone vegan at the same time. That's a mistake.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Too many changes. It's too many changes.

[John Lovett]

Too many changes. You can't give up alcohol and meat protein.

[Ana Gasteyer]

You gotta have a big match and a beer.

[David Krumholtz]

He cursed me out one day so bad for the. I said, there was a line. We're doing this play. And I was doing the. We were in rehearsals and there was a line where I say, hey, you know, you could go to the. The actors home in New Brunswick is the line. I don't know if you guys know what play that is, and I'm not going to tell you. But anyway. And I said in rehearsal, you know, I'm turning. I said, well, there's the actors home in New Brunswick. And he said, wait a second. Is there a question mark at the end of that line? And I said. I said, well, no. Then why do you say it like a question? I said, I don't know. Just rehearsal. And he says, say the fucking line. And that was after a long string of abuse. And I thought. And my wife was pregnant with my first child, and I had, like, all this insecure. I was like, freaking out, and I was like. I said, I need a break. And I went outside and I called my dad. And my dad was a New York City mailman, worked his ass off. Had to be at work at 2am every morning for 30 years.

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[David Krumholtz]

And he was always the guy that was like, take the money and don't complain about anything. So I knew and I called him and he was like, you quit. He was so upset. And then I told him the story and he said, good for you, son. Don't take shit from anybody. And I went back in and I said, I'm sorry, but this is not for me. And I'll never forget, he was sitting on a bed and he got up, which wasn't much of a change. And he looked at me and he said, the fuck? And I said, I can't make you happy, man. Fucking nasty. You hate me, cursing me out in front of everybody. I fucking say in a line, what the fuck?

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Broke my heart.

[David Krumholtz]

Really, truly.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, but you did the right thing. You did the Right thing. I would have cried too, but. You would have. You did the right thing.

[David Krumholtz]

I did the right thing? Yeah.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah. Really? You did?

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Because by the way, too, it's eight a week. It's rehearsal. Like, that's not going to get better.

[David Krumholtz]

And look, he's probably a lovely guy. He was going through a very difficult time.

[Victor Jones]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I kind of want there to be a.

[David Krumholtz]

And I just want to say that although no one. If this ever gets out, no one's going to see this part where no.

[John Lovett]

One'S going to include the.

[David Krumholtz]

I have compassion for the curmudgeon. And I'll tell you why. No doubt Fran Leibowitz is incontinent. No doubt. And if you were walking around with a giant shit between your ass cheeks.

[Ana Gasteyer]

80% of these people have IBS. That is true. It just goes with the territory.

[David Krumholtz]

Right.

[Ana Gasteyer]

There's a reason they call it a sour stomach.

[John Lovett]

And we'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere.

[Victor Jones]

There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[David Krumholtz]

Boy big cooler fit perfectly in your.

[John Lovett]

Even bigger cargo space. And when it's go time, your 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen's got the playbook, the playlist and the tech to stay a step ahead. It's more than an suv. It's your Equinox Chevrolet. Together, let's drive. And we're back. One note before we get back to everything.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Sorry, I didn't mean to laugh again.

[John Lovett]

I've been doing this for so long and I have so much practice and yet it seems like in some ways I don't. But is that part of it? Am I doing a character?

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. Fascinating. You're amazing at this though. I mean, really.

[John Lovett]

Thank you.

[David Krumholtz]

You're excellent.

[John Lovett]

Very excellent.

[David Krumholtz]

Very sweet, funny and engaging. Warm. I love you. Everybody does.

[John Lovett]

We've got a brand new episode of our limited series Bravo America on the love it or leave it feed. Next week's guest, Dorinda medley her Roni Arjun story Lessons politicians can learn from reality tv. Which politicians are better suited to reality tv? I talked to Dorinda about what I felt is something beautiful about her as a person on reality tv, which is she seems to be both vulnerable and at times can be mean, at which point her eyes change and I realize, just remember the first part. I said it's a really great conversation. So that'll be out on Tuesday. Listen on the Love it or leave it feed or watch on YouTube, okay? New York does a lot of things best, most recently electing mayors. But you all treat ranting like an Olympic sport. So we're gonna wrap things up with our favorite segment, the rant wheel. Or as you'd say here in New York. Hey, we're ranting here.

[Ana Gasteyer]

What's with my Melania? Ha.

[John Lovett]

What's with any of it? Let's spin the wheel. It has landed on. David, you have 60 seconds to rant about a topic.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay, you ready?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

It seems that we are in a period of chronic dissatisfaction in this country because we confuse freedom with abundance. You see, we see 26 flavors of pop Tarts at the grocery store, and we think we're free, but really, it's just a lot of stuff. And what ends up happening is it's never enough. Where's the 27th flavor? Where's the 28th?

[John Lovett]

Right, right.

[David Krumholtz]

And so now what we've become is this drama, like, desperate for drama, desperate for chaos. A nihilistic culture where every candidate who might take control of, like, Mamdani or even Trump is, like, going to destroy the fabric of the world. Now, wait a second. Democracy is not so thinly spread. It's not fragile, it's not sensitive. It's actually the strongest form of government that's ever been created. And no, I'm sorry, but not one man, or even 10 men can undo the foundation of democracy. But when we tell ourselves that and when we hit social media and tell other people that we are engaging in our own nihilism, which we are responsible for solely. I don't care how badly it scares you, okay? At the end of the day, they prey on the fear. So perhaps be strong, be positive, send encouraging messages. I'm not saying lie down and don't do anything. I'm saying maybe calm the fuck down. Thanks.

[John Lovett]

It's an important message. You're talking to a group of people whose phones haven't actually successfully gone into lock mode since Trump was elected in 2016. Just been glued to them. So it's an important, important word.

[David Krumholtz]

I think so. Thank you, David Krumholtz.

[John Lovett]

In Oppenheimer, an Italian man played Einstein, which I think is fine. I like when Italians play Jews and Jews play Italians.

[Ana Gasteyer]

What about Greeks? What about Greeks?

[John Lovett]

They're not part of it.

[David Krumholtz]

Killian is Irish. Cillian is Irish. Cillian Murphy. And Oppenheimer was Jack Jewish.

[John Lovett]

That's right, yeah. Let's spin it again.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Oh, no. Oh, no, that's me. I did not prepare very well for this. But the thing that the person that makes me the maddest on planet Earth right now, and it's very. It's. It's not really the point, but it's Mike Johnson. He's so fucking smug. You know what? He drives me crazy because he's the super unpopular guy who gets cast in the play. And you're like, you weren't the choice, man. Like, nobody wanted you to be playing. You know? Like, I know you played Rumpelstiltskin in fourth grade. But apart from that, nobody thinks that you're good as curly. Like, you're just the only guy that has the tenor range, right? So he got that. And guess what? You're running around and you're collecting the money for the director's gift for everybody. And that's not, like, a cool position to put yourself in. And now he's like the guy that thinks. Thinks he's, like, landed in, like, you know, big, big, big, big dick of Cock Island. And it's so enraging. Cause no one wants to date him. Everyone's vagina dries when he walks into the room.

[John Lovett]

Such a good.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I think some fellas here discovered they have dry vaginas too.

[David Krumholtz]

You guys remember Mash the Show. Mash some of you. He's like the radar of our government. He gives off radar. No one wanted to fuck radar. No, Ain't nobody trying to fuck radar.

[John Lovett]

Nobody wanted to fuck radar. Let's spin it again.

[Ana Gasteyer]

You're so cool.

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, God. There's more. Or it's your turn.

[John Lovett]

It's just me. Okay. So I want to talk about whatever the fuck is going on with the rehabilitation of Marjorie Taylor Greene. Oh, but I don't. I actually don't. I want to understand why it's working. Like, it's like people are like, ha, ha, broken clock. It's more than a twice a day now. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm sorry, but, like, broken clocks aren't right this often. What's happening? Right? And it's like. Like what? Like. And it's also like, wait a second. I didn't realize you were capable. Like, you know, there's like. David Axelrod would have this expression, which is like, when you see a bear on a unicycle, you don't judge his technique. You're just amazed.

[Victor Jones]

That's it.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I have a theory, though. Do you wanna hear my theory?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Ana Gasteyer]

I mean, you probably already thought of this, but basically, the thing about Conspiracy theorists is you just have to think of another conspiracy to dismantle the first conspiracy. And I think that's what's happened with her. I think that she's actually like, we threw Epstein in there. Not that that's a conspiracy. It's real. But all the things about it are suddenly making sense to her. So suddenly all the other conspiracies that she's had, she's suddenly waking up and saying, like, wait, the moon landing was fake. And like having lots of other things like that.

[David Krumholtz]

Right.

[John Lovett]

It's like the.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[John Lovett]

Yeah. It's like the political equivalent, like the Armageddon Day didn't happen. So she went back in and re crunched the numbers and came up with a new date that's further away. And it's like. I guess it is more reasonable for it to be far away.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yes.

[David Krumholtz]

That's what Jehovah's Witnesses do.

[John Lovett]

Really?

[Ana Gasteyer]

Yeah, yeah. They just do the math again.

[John Lovett]

That's so cool. David Krumholtz, thank you so much for being here. Ana Gastire, thank you so much. We made it fun.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Thank you for having me.

[John Lovett]

The Bruce Springsteen film is out on a show at town Hall. It's December 15th.

[Ana Gasteyer]

December 15th, Town Hall.

[John Lovett]

We'll be right back. And we're back. Come on out, guys. Before we go, I want you guys to hear Victor Jones one more time. But before we do, Victor, I reached out to you just via Instagram.

[Victor Jones]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Because I was being served your music via TikTok over and over again, and I really loved it. And you have such a fascinating way of associating and writing. And there were people that were accusing you of using AI. And I want you to have an opportunity to respond.

[Victor Jones]

Yeah. So I had a whole response plan which was inclusive of points like AI being generative from lots of sources, which would turn out something a lot more lowest common denominator and generic than the whole idea that you hear something weird and quirky and you're like, oh, it must be AI. It's just a. Shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what AI is capable of in the modern era. But I thought it would be a lot more fun to just pull up my notes app and to prove that this is actually how my brain works. So I'd like to show John just. So this is not a magic trick. These are many different dates from over the course of years, Correct? Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And that says January 6th. Be there will be wild.

[Victor Jones]

We're not talking about that.

[David Krumholtz]

That's weird.

[John Lovett]

A little nerve wracking. To see.

[Victor Jones]

Of course, of course. But we won't get into that today. I just want to really quick brush through a few of these. We've got some good ones, some that are actually going to end up in songs like I love you, Happy Birthday, I think I am an island, which is going to be a song. And maybe the title of a song. We've also got some ideas like Evil Dr. Dolittle uses powers for murder, but gets away with it because no one believes he really told the animals to do that. We have more lyrics that'll probably end up. We've got Heaven, Hot Damn, and seven Pipers piping. I don't know what that means. I have ocd. I get intrusive thoughts, like genuinely diagnosed ocd. So I get thoughts that I don't know what they mean. And they go on paper and they go into a song. We've got one that I love. I don't know, it just says a dozen guys. We got crab haircut. Oh, that became a sketch. This one says crab haircut. Too short, too long, crab riddle. And that actually turned into. And then, yeah, I'll just end with this one, which is a line. Two lines that are gonna be in the same song. One of them is, she told me that her cousin is a cop, but he's actually really nice, which is, I thought, kind of political and interesting, which is half my stuff. Like, it's political. What is it? It's political. And then the other one is my heart is my own goddamn property, which I am gonna show up in a song next year. So not AI my notes app, everybody.

[John Lovett]

And where can Victor, where can people find you?

[Victor Jones]

Oh, you can find me on any of the socials at Victor Jones Music, but if you're just kind of the kind of person who listens to music, you can find me on any of the streaming services. VictorJones. I'm the first search Victor Jones. And as of two weeks ago, if you Google me, I have ousted a 60 year old linebacker as the top Victor Jones on Google.

[John Lovett]

All right, everybody, one more time. Thank you. Victor Jones is going to sing a song.

[Victor Jones]

Love it.

[John Lovett]

And I'll be right back.

[Victor Jones]

So, yeah, this one is called Shoulder Song. We're dialing it in for you. Let's hit it, Marcus. Sometimes I feel like I'm just a hot air balloon lifted up by the things that I want out of life. Like what? Like I want to be famous. Famous and happy in that order. And also some time sometimes I kind of wanna die. Does that count? I Wanna get your number I wanna touch your shoulder I wanna get close to you I want to get your number touch your shoulder and get close to you I like mean women I like soft men sometimes I need to be alone I be alone, I be alone I like mean women I like soft men Sometimes I need to be alone I be alone to be alone so I can get your number I want to touch your shoulder I want to give close to you.

[John Lovett]

I want.

[Victor Jones]

To get your number cut your shoulder I wanna get closer you slide like a marrow from a broken bone tell me what what to do tell me what to what to what? 2, 3, 4. You got your hands in your pockets you got your eyes on the floor you got your digits on doorsteps you got your brain in a jar I got you under me you kept up with the news I don't know how you stayed strong if I kept up like you do my best worst animal me you leave me laid out can't take you anywhere I got a friend, got a friend and she's not from here I wish you'd tell me what you do when you're not around yeah, I wish you'd tell me I wish you'd FA FA FA FA barrel like a tiger and he I got my fear dripping off of my teeth. You leave me laying out la you leave me laid out you leaping lay out. I want to get your number I want to touch your shoulder I wanna get close to you I wanna get turn up Touch your shoulder I wanna get love here I want to get your number when I touch it to your shoulder. Want to get close to you.

[John Lovett]

I.

[Victor Jones]

Want to get your touch your shoulder I want to get close to you Close to you yeah, close to you. Thank you, everybody. Have a good night.

[John Lovett]

One more time to Victor Jones. Thank you to Alan Gastar and David Kromos. Thank you all for coming out. Thank you to Crown Hill Theater. Thank you, Brooklyn. Way to go, New York. Let's keep it going because we have 360 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great weekend. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked media on Instagram, TikTok and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free Love it or Leave it and podcast Save America Episodes, subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign [e-mail] friends love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer, and Kennedy Hill is our Associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer, Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre and Subha Agrawal are our writers. Jordan Kanter is our editor, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Cher. Sure thanks to our designer Sammy Cadorna Rees for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers David Tools, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Delon Villanueva, and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt de Groat and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. It's Love it or Leave It. Tired of drafty windows and rising energy bills? Well, now is the perfect time to get beautiful replacement windows and doors from renewal by Andersen. For a limited time, get no money down, no monthly payments, and no interest for 24 months with a minimum of six. That's right, two full years to enjoy warmer rooms, lower bills and beautiful new.

[David Krumholtz]

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[John Lovett]

Visit renewalbyanderson.com to schedule your free consultation today. Hurry. This offer ends December 1st.

[Ana Gasteyer]

What's Poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer.

[John Lovett]

Ira Madison iii, Conan o', Brien, and more.

[Ana Gasteyer]

Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess. Wherever you get your podcasts.