Martha v. Meghan and SNL v. God

Summary

Lovett or Leave It: Episode Summary – "Martha v. Meghan and SNL v. God"

Release Date: April 5, 2025 | Host: Jon Lovett | Produced by Crooked Media

In this episode of "Lovett or Leave It," host Jon Lovett, alongside co-hosts Hallie Kiefer, Elijah, and guest Nish Kumar, delve into a multifaceted discussion covering the intersection of politics, media influence, and online culture. Titled "Martha v. Meghan and SNL v. God," the episode navigates through high-profile political events, critiques of celebrity-led media ventures, and the pervasive impact of social media platforms like TikTok.

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Political Influence and Election Insights

The conversation begins with an analysis of the recent Wisconsin Supreme Court race, highlighting the substantial financial influence of figures like Elon Musk. Jon Lovett remarks on Musk's $25 million campaign contribution, stating, “$25 million, which is an insane amount of money to drop on one statewide race in Wisconsin... [it] could have hurt, that's enough to tell you that Republicans, especially from moderate districts, are in real trouble” (07:14). This financial injection, Lovett argues, failed to sway the election outcome, underscoring the entrenched political dynamics and signaling challenges ahead for the Republican Party in pushing forward tax cuts for the wealthy.

Elijah adds, “It was pretty cool,” in response to Musk’s subdued role in politics, emphasizing a uniquely American sentiment of challenging the ultra-wealthy. The discussion underscores a critical view of how monetary power intersects with political legitimacy and voter influence.

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Meghan Markle’s New Media Venture: A Martha Stewart Comparison

Transitioning to media critique, the hosts focus on Meghan Markle's new show, drawing parallels to Martha Stewart’s legacy. Hallie Kiefer expresses skepticism about the show's substance, especially critiquing its focus on basic cooking like the “one-pot pasta” recipe. She articulates a disdain for the superficiality, stating, “Everybody wants to make my one pot pasta... That is the Martha Stewart I love” (13:25), highlighting a perceived lack of depth and authenticity in Meghan’s project.

Jon Lovett echoes this sentiment, lamenting the erosion of genuine brand integrity in favor of commodified content. He references Martha Stewart’s legal struggles, noting how they stripped her of her pristine image: “She was treated like fucking dog shit that she had deserved it because she was rich and she was bossy” (13:56). This comparison serves to critique the construction and deconstruction of public personas in modern media.

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TikTok as a Political Messaging Tool

A significant portion of the discussion centers on TikTok’s role in spreading political messages through seemingly benign content. The hosts dissect a viral video where a user attempts to embed information about Tennessee’s SB6202HB6001 bill within a segment about winter boots. Jon Lovett criticizes the obfuscation, saying, “It's a specific trend where that is meant to stand in for... a way of performing radicalism without ever doing anything” (18:00).

Hallie Kiefer expands on this, recognizing the innovative yet convoluted method of using trendy content to disseminate political information: “This is the only thing I've seen this week where I'm like, oh, I hadn't thought about the layers that this person's trying to access in TikTok” (26:25). Nish Kumar adds a nuanced perspective, acknowledging both the potential and the pitfalls of such strategies, emphasizing the need for diversified information sources beyond algorithm-driven platforms.

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The "Terminally Online" Segment: Rating Online Engagement

In the "Terminally Online" segment, the hosts rate their and their guests' levels of online engagement. Hallie Kiefer discusses her interaction with Meghan Markle's show, assigning herself a rating based on her critique of the content. The segment transitions into a broader critique of online cultures, such as the rise of exclusive male retreats like the "Bali Time Chamber."

Jon Lovett humorously rates himself and others, highlighting a shared skepticism towards overly curated self-improvement industries. The conversation underscores a critical view of how online platforms and retreats perpetuate specific lifestyles and ideologies, often divorced from real-world applicability and inclusivity.

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Critique of Male-Exclusive Retreats and Masculinity

A substantial dialogue ensues around male-exclusive retreats, with Elijah and Hallie Kiefer mocking the concept of the "Bali Time Chamber." They dissect the elements of these retreats—extensive routines, premium services, and exclusivity—questioning their efficacy and underlying motives. Hallie Kiefer asserts, “These people are not transforming” (60:15), critiquing the superficial nature of such self-help endeavors.

Nish Kumar expands on this by connecting the retreats to broader issues of masculinity and societal disengagement: “Half of the problems we're facing are men are disappearing into these, like, all male online worlds that divorce them from the reality of society” (66:34). This highlights concerns about isolation and the lack of genuine self-improvement or societal contribution fostered by these retreats.

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Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

The episode wraps up with a satirical recap of their ratings in the "Terminally Online" segment, emphasizing the hosts’ overarching criticisms of modern media influences and online cultures. Jon Lovett concludes with a reflection on late-stage capitalism’s impact on media and personal well-being: “Capitalism has gotten so good at capitalism realism that it is chewing us up and spitting us out” (69:40). This serves as a poignant commentary on the systemic issues exacerbated by unchecked commercial influences in media and self-help industries.

The hosts collectively advocate for a more authentic and diverse engagement with media and political information, urging listeners to seek out reliable sources beyond algorithm-driven platforms. Their discourse is laced with humor, critical insights, and a call for more meaningful interactions both online and offline.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jon Lovett (07:14): “$25 million... could have hurt, that's enough to tell you that Republicans, especially from moderate districts, are in real trouble.”
• Hallie Kiefer (13:25): “That is the Martha Stewart I love.”
• Jon Lovett (13:56): “She was treated like fucking dog shit that she had deserved it because she was rich and she was bossy.”
• Jon Lovett (18:00): “A way of performing radicalism without ever doing anything.”
• Jon Lovett (69:40): “Capitalism has gotten so good at capitalism realism that it is chewing us up and spitting us out.”

This episode offers a sharp critique of contemporary media practices, the commodification of personal brands, and the intricate ways in which political messaging is embedded within popular culture. Through humor and incisive analysis, the hosts encourage listeners to critically evaluate the media they consume and the societal structures that shape it.

Transcript

[Jon Lovett]

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[Nish Kumar]

Speaking of no commitment, you don't get enough credit for your transition.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, I. Seamless like butter over here.

[Jon Lovett]

Over to you, Elijah.

[Elijah]

Great to be here for our terminally online Love it or Leave it ad free Bonanza crossover show. I'm here. Love it or Leave it Writer Hallie Kiefer's here. Hi, Hallie.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Elijah]

And Pod Save the UK host Nish Kumar is here. Hi, Nish.

[Nish Kumar]

And famous Commitment five.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Ooh.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Does that feel accurate? How do you feel? Does that strike you?

[Nish Kumar]

I've been in an entirely monogamous relationship for 13 years. It's actually the only thing I can say that I'm decent at is commitment.

[Jon Lovett]

It really is a transition that would work much better if Nish was a cad.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Ooh, international cad.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah. I think I'm one of the least caddish people that's ever, truly, that's ever lived. My, my. I've not put up strong numbers is what I would say.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I do associate cads with being British. I feel like over here it's just. We just got fuck boys and there's no, there's no class to that.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, we don't have enough fops either.

[Nish Kumar]

No, no. Yeah, we've got. We've got cads, we've got fops. We've also got fuckboys as well. We've got. There's a huge diversity in the different type of assholes we're over.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Gorgeous country you got going over there.

[Elijah]

That's part of the special relationship, the.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Boy exchange between our countries.

[Jon Lovett]

Now there's going to be a tariff on fuckboys. Now we're going to be paying an extra 20% just to get a fuckboy into this country.

[Nish Kumar]

You're going to pay so much more money on Hugh Grant.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. And now domestic fuckboys, they're going to hike the prices.

[Elijah]

So this is a special crossover episode with our subscription show Terminally online. It's format we all like. We figured we'd do it for Love it or leave it. This week it's a in part behind the scenes show. Nesh, you are a crooked media host currently on tour here in America. Take us behind the scenes. Oh, have you found anything unexpected while touring in America during Trump 2.0?

[Nish Kumar]

I mean, it was, I will say the. I'm not, I would say I'm not interacting with a broad section of the American populace at my comedy shows. It turns out there's not a huge crossover between fans of obscure British comedians and voters for the Donald. And mainly people have sort of just broadly been apologizing to me for the state of the country. But I just, I don't think as a British person you particularly want to get into apologizing. I just think, I think once you pull up that thread, there's nothing, there's nothing left to. Nothing left to go on for the next thing.

[Jon Lovett]

Next thing the Ashmolean is empty and then there's nothing for people to look at in there.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Well, there you have it.

[Nish Kumar]

The tour has been a lot of fun.

[Elijah]

Oh, great. Okay, good. I'm glad to hear it.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Well, love it.

[Elijah]

For your behind the scenes, we just won a Supreme Court seat in Wisconsin. You were there a lot. How was your experience in Wisconsin? You were going to knock doors.

[Jon Lovett]

So I just want to say now that we have won the election, I can now tell all of you that if we lost, I think we really were totally fucked in a pretty universal way.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jon Lovett]

Now, it's not that, you know, Elon Musk was out there saying that this was a civilizational election. I'm not sure that's true. But I do think it would have made the next year pretty bleak if even in this environment we couldn't manage to protect abortion access and stop a right wing judge from rigging elections. After Elon Musk dropped 25 million or more in that race. It's in hindsight, right, knocking on doors. And I talked about this before. Elon Musk did make himself the main character, not just on the news, but in just conversationally. He was someone people were bringing up and not just the Democrats. We were there kind of churning out the vote. It wasn't just Democrats, but even the independents. We Met. They were like, Elon Musk. They're setting Tesla's on fire. It's a lot of money. What's he doing here? It just was on people's minds. And it's one election, but this is a rejection of that. Or at the very least, what you can say pretty definitively is that $25 million, which is an insane amount of money to drop on one statewide race in a. In Wisconsin, not California, it's not New York, it's Wisconsin, is not enough to overcome the underlying dynamics. And so when you have a swing of plus 15 or more in Republican House races in. In Florida, combined with the fact that Elon's money didn't make enough, didn't make a difference in Wisconsin, and could very well have hurt, that's enough to tell you that Republicans, especially from moderate districts, are in real trouble. And it's going to make voting for a Republican reconciliation package to cut taxes for billionaires and millionaires and cut services for people a much tougher bill to swallow. So I think the Republican political job of getting that bill over the finish line got a lot harder. And that's the most important thing.

[Elijah]

Yeah, yeah. I. It's always dangerous when I get into political analyst mode. But people forget that, like, Doge was like, a very late thing, and Elon Musk being part of the administration was like a very late thing. It's not like something they campaigned on. And there's something fundamentally American about telling the richest man in the world to go fuck himself.

[Jon Lovett]

Absolutely.

[Elijah]

It was pretty cool.

[Jon Lovett]

Absolutely.

[Hallie Kiefer]

My thing about it was, like, him sort of like, you know, sort of blaming George Soros in the lead up to all this. And it was like, first of all, you're so much richer than George Soros. And it's like, well, maybe like the idea that this. It was him versus George Soros, it's like, well, maybe George Soros. Maybe our side won because George Soros wasn't out here jumping around fucking humiliating.

[Nish Kumar]

Himself, wearing a cheese hat.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Like, I'm like, do you like. And that's. I feel bad. I don't feel bad. But it's just sort of, like, interesting that, like, he's going to be around because he has nothing else but this. Like, he's gonna be in every state. It's gonna be. He will not learn anything from this. Cause he's not capable of it. So we're just gonna have to see his influence. And my hope is that a lot of people will see this sweaty fucking loser and understand, like, this is not a compelling representative for conservatives or whatever he thinks he represents. And so that was nice, I thought. Satisfying.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah, I was actually. I did a show in Madison, Wisconsin on Sunday night and I made some pretty choice remarks about Elon. So I guess what I'm saying is you're welcome America.

[Jon Lovett]

Hell yeah. The Nishba, the niche bump. The Nishba.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Hell yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

The 250 comedy nerds in Madison at the Majestic in Madison.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Hey, it didn't hurt.

[Nish Kumar]

The swing vote didn't hurt.

[Jon Lovett]

You know your, your Quibi show that I was on is called hello America and it's follow up that sadly can't exist because Quibi doesn't exist. Could have been. You're welcome, America.

[Elijah]

Yeah. All right, well, thanks for protecting Small B and George Soros. Way to go Wisconsin. Let's move on to terminally online. If you're unfamiliar, it's a segment where we share kind of how when we were two online, each week we'll rate everyone on a scale of one to five. One being you're fine, you can deal with it at home, five being your terminal. So love it. When were you two online? This week.

[Jon Lovett]

So I saw a video and the second I saw it I understood why it existed. Even though the poster is famous for a kind of subtle. A velvet glove. Right. A fist inside of a velvet glove. So I love the content that Meghan Markle produces. I love it. Thank you. Thank you Nish OG fan for anything you would fan.

[Nish Kumar]

We did it. We booted those people out for your good.

[Hallie Kiefer]

We're goblet it up over here.

[Jon Lovett]

I think they self deported but the content is fantastic. The show is amazing. I love watching someone move peanut butter pretzels from a bigger bag to a smaller bag.

[Hallie Kiefer]

You finally learned how to make popcorn.

[Jon Lovett]

You learn how to make popcorn. It's excellent. But in the first episode Megan makes a one pot pasta and it's actually like I think one pot recipes are the best. I like I actually if you were to look at my Google history and you won't and I hope you never do mixed in between, you know the various sexual searches, how to. Yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

You know, how do sex good priests.

[Jon Lovett]

With a flat tire, that kind of thing. I don't know. But you would find one pot recipes. Love one pot recipe. So I watched that recipe and I actually thought, you know what, I'm going to maybe make a version of this one pot recipe. Meghan Markle, you taught me something. And then I go on TikTok and I see this.

[Hallie Kiefer]

So here's a recipe that has Taken the Internet by storm. Everybody wants to make the one pot pasta. You add your 12 ounces of linguine, add one onion, which is peeled and very thinly sliced. 12 ounces of cherry tomatoes, four cloves of garlic. I'm going to put a little garlic here, a little garlic there.

[Jon Lovett]

Quarter of a teaspoon of freshly cracked.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Black pepper, two teaspoons of salt and four and a half cups of water. Sprigs of basil, sort of stick them in there onto the stove, bring to a boil and you'll be stirring this constantly and you're going to have an amazing, delicious pasta.

[Jon Lovett]

It is fragrant and it is well.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Cooked and it is just ready to eat.

[Jon Lovett]

Put it right in your bowl.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Is that enough for you?

[Jon Lovett]

So play it from the very. Just play the first line of it again.

[Hallie Kiefer]

So here's a recipe that has taken the Internet by storm. Everybody wants.

[Jon Lovett]

That's it. Here's a recipe that's taking the Internet by storm. Everyone wants to make my one pot pasta. And I saw it and I just. First of all, that I didn't. It wasn't that I was.

[Elijah]

When I watch that's Martha Stewart for listeners.

[Jon Lovett]

Just so you know, for listeners, that is Martha Stewart. Clearly people had mentioned to her. Whether she saw it online or in real life, I don't know. But, but, but it got back to Martha. That Meghan Markle in the first episode of her show of where she's meant to be a Martha Stewart like figure, she's making a fucking Martha Stewart pasta. And what does Martha Stewart do? She just in that perfect Martha Stewart way says, everybody is talking about my one pot pasta. Everybody wants to make my one pot pasta. Let me show you how a fucking pro does it. And that's the Martha Stewart I love. That's the Martha Stewart that was that, that I watched when I was a child to live inside of the fantasy. And that's the Martha Stewart I still believe was wronged. By who? James Comey. Wow.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Wow.

[Jon Lovett]

And this is where I want to come back to. Because Martha Stewart went to jail not for insider trading, but for lying about a crime they couldn't prove. A crime that would have been over $5,000. This woman is a fucking billionaire. She blows 5,000 just walking by a Williams Sonoma. She doesn't care about $5,000. That is nothing. She would throw $5,000 in the garbage.

[Hallie Kiefer]

That's a dog's birthday to her. A little outfit for one of those giant dogs she's got.

[Jon Lovett]

And yet James Comey decided that even Though he couldn't prove that she had committed insider trading, he was going to get her on lying about a crime she didn't commit. And that James Comey is the same fucking guy that also decides in another novel way to go in front of the cameras and public indict Hillary Clinton. And isn't it amazing that two of the most famous examples of women being torn down by the government in novel and interesting ways are both by this six foot seven fucking menace, James Comey. And when Martha Stewart went to jail, she was treated like fucking dog shit that she had deserved it because she was rich and she was bossy and she was tough and it was a powerful woman laid low at a time when everybody was patting themselves on the back for America being post sexism because James Bond was allowed to punch women. And we did this.

[Nish Kumar]

What did that.

[Jon Lovett]

We. I think there's a. There's a. I'm going to Google. Google that.

[Hallie Kiefer]

James Bond punching a woman.

[Elijah]

I'm sorry to start. Ira Cook and love it. I'm sorry, you can come back.

[Jon Lovett]

The point being Martha Stewart, when she went to jail, she lost that perfection that she was known for. Right. They took that from her and it was wrong. It was wrong. What happened to Martha Stewart. It was wrong. But you know what? It made her tougher and more interesting and it led to this Martha Stewart, the Martha Stewart that goes on TikTok to just delicately as if removing the meat from a fine sole to destroy any comers. And I appreciated that. And that's what I saw. That's what I felt when I saw this brief moment of her saying everybody's talking about my one pot pasta. Thank you.

[Nish Kumar]

It's Olympic. Levels of passive aggression.

[Jon Lovett]

Yes.

[Nish Kumar]

I love it.

[Jon Lovett]

I love it.

[Nish Kumar]

I absolutely love it. Yeah. It's so elegant in its contempt.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah. I feel like as an American, Martha Stewart represents both the fantasy and also she's put in decades of work. Right. She has that behind her. So I feel like the people who we allow to cook food are either someone like that. Someone like an eye in a garden where like they've cultivated. Spent decades. The. I'm trying Nigella across the. Across the pond, you know, someone where it's like Nigella. Exactly. I mean we all are. It's sort of someone who's been added or a completely insane person where this is the first time. But they're like bubbly personality, like almost like a TikTok star. Like, you know, like a real. We're gonna allow that.

[Nish Kumar]

Like Julia Child.

[Jon Lovett]

Yes.

[Nish Kumar]

Like someone like that.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Someone's more of a character. Meghan Markle, to me, it's like a million people can make that pasta. I need Meghan Markle to be funnier. And that's not why she's here, what she's doing. But I'm like. Cause as you're saying this, the other thing is also Martha Stewart's genuinely very funny. And I feel like other than this, the last time I saw her was a series of interviews. She was like, man, I cannot find a decent man to fuck me. I am out here. She's posting thirst traps. She's like, I am looking for a man. And I really respect that. It's like she's been around so long. I'm like, yeah, absolutely. You do what you need to do.

[Jon Lovett]

Give yourself a little treat and watch a compilation of the moments where Martha Stewart is getting absolutely roasted by Miss Piggy.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, yes, I've seen that. Incredible.

[Jon Lovett]

Miss Piggy would go on the Martha Stewart show and absolutely rip Martha Stewart to bits. And it is a fucking delight. Just two queens. Two queens.

[Elijah]

I like you're describing this like Miss Peggy's like she's making her own decision here.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Again, much like the. As far as I know she is.

[Jon Lovett]

Ye have. You know, sure. What you're saying. Here's here. I guess what I was saying.

[Elijah]

Puppet, right.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I don't hear this from you right now.

[Jon Lovett]

Hey, nobody cared. Nobody cared about Jim Henson until he put on the mask.

[Elijah]

Look, I'm. I'm sorry. I'm just like getting side triggered by like a genre of posts that's like, we need to give Superman more credit for how he fought Batman in this clip. And I'm like, he's fake, he's not real. And so you're getting side aggression from something I'm experiencing, and that's not right.

[Nish Kumar]

A friend of mine watched the Meghan Markle show and said, I can't think of anything that more clearly feels like fiddling while Rome burns.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yes.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

Like at this time in American history, to have a whole show that's about a rich person cooking quite basic food in a millionaire's house. That's not the actual millionaire's house that they live in, but is a rented one for the purposes of making a TV show. It all feels a little bit. Let them eat one pot pasta.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. It really could be called pottering around with Meghan Markle looking for things to do. In the opening episode, she harvests honey with a beekeeper. And it's a small detail, but she is wearing a pristine out of the box white beekeepers outfit. And it's like, dirty it up. At least pretend.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Get some honey on it.

[Jon Lovett]

At least pretend you know who these bees are. At least pretend you know these fucking bees. It is crisp, clean.

[Nish Kumar]

There's a lot of discourse in the UK at the moment about whether, you know, because there was a sense that they were driven out of the country, you know, on account of racism of the British state. And now I read a couple of things online and from the British press about, like, ha. Well, we always knew. And you're like, two things can be true.

[Jon Lovett]

Oh, yes. Yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

You can be the victim of racism and be a complete dickhead. I am living proof that it is possible to be both a complete piece of shit and the victim of racist abuse.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I would watch you collect honey. I would watch you make a one pot pasta dish. Like, I only feel like there's a little. You bring a little joie de vivre. I feel like we love rich people so much. We hate beautiful women, but we will allow them to do certain things. They either have to be funny or they have to bring us into our life. You know what I mean? Like Ina Garten's husband. My husband's coming home. Oh, Jeffrey. She's like, I refuse to give you anything. And there's something I admire about it, but I'm also not gonna watch it.

[Jon Lovett]

Oh, I'm gonna watch it. Yes, I'm gonna watch it.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Well, there's an audience. And just to cycle back. Now, it depends on what you mean by hitting a woman, but Roger Moore does slap a woman in the man with the Golden Gun, which was quite a while ago.

[Jon Lovett]

I am thinking of Pierce Brosnan fighting and I believe Die another Day.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Okay.

[Jon Lovett]

Is what I am remembering. I believe he fights Madonna with a sword.

[Nish Kumar]

He does. He fences with Madonna.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, that is what comes to mind for me.

[Hallie Kiefer]

As it should.

[Nish Kumar]

Well, listen, Bezos has got hold of James Bond now, so the next movie is gonna be him fighting, unionizing Amazon workers and fucking Select.

[Jon Lovett]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Did you see that? Amazon just put a bid in to buy TikTok.

[Jon Lovett]

It did great.

[Hallie Kiefer]

But it makes sense because TikTok, which is actually ties into my video where it's like, TikTok is just a store now. And occasionally then you get interesting videos around it. So it makes like, an Amazon button on TikTok. That makes total sense.

[Nish Kumar]

Right, right, right.

[Jon Lovett]

Finally. Finally, I can watch a viral recipe and then be served an ad for how to buy something called, like, Nawumbi paper towels.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Is that what you're Getting. I feel like I'm getting just like, ass leggings. And it's like, have you ever thought about how your ass is a mess? Give the illusion of an ass, as in one piece of these leggings. Like a, you know, trump l'oe ass and leggings.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm getting. I'm getting increasingly baroque videos of basically people setting up for themselves human. Human cages to sleep in at night. That basically. Okay, this is interesting that people are setting up their.

[Elijah]

Like.

[Jon Lovett]

Like they're binding and taping their faces. They're sleeping things in their mouth, and they're building little tents inside of their beds. People aren't. Okay.

[Hallie Kiefer]

No.

[Nish Kumar]

This is an effective. This is the Brian Johnsonification of sleep.

[Jon Lovett]

Yes.

[Nish Kumar]

Because it's all about the guys who are like, obsessive rejuvenation and the aging specific sleep is a big part of that. But with Brian Johnson, his sleep schedule precludes him from sleep. Sharing a bed with another person.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, and I think that's for the best. I think that that is. Who would be there. Whoever that is. They're also not doing really well. So I. That's good.

[Nish Kumar]

Feel the best.

[Elijah]

His son. His son, if you're familiar with Brian.

[Nish Kumar]

Oh, yeah.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yes. He famously came out and said he's measuring his. His nocturnal erections and then his son's. And I'm like, that should be a crime. Even if your son's an adult. It's like, that shouldn't be allowed.

[Nish Kumar]

Must be sent to jail immediately.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yes.

[Elijah]

Well, counterpoint. Dudes rock. Well, let's.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Let's.

[Elijah]

How online is. Love it for this. I mean, this.

[Hallie Kiefer]

The.

[Elijah]

The pasta controversy seems like it's part of the core appeal of the show. Like, it's a feature, not a. But the passion with which you're talking about James Comey makes me feel like this is a three, at least. You got to go to the doctor's office.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I think I should go to the doctor. I think I should go to the doctor's.

[Elijah]

2 Again, you just got the sniffles. You can deal with it at home.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I think, too. I just think Martha Stewart is a heritage American brand. I feel like it is. She's not very online, so I feel like. And Meghan Markle feels like she's never been on the Internet. That's part of her power, is that she hasn't been like, that part of her brain hasn't been destroyed. And. Yeah. So I'm gonna say two. Not too high, though. Not too online.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah, I'll go with two. As Well, I think there's a lot of old media in the mix here. These Martha Stewart and Comey references keep a lot of old media in the mix. That suggests Lovett is also still watching broadcast television.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, this is an analog. I guess I'm having an analog obsession. This is an analog.

[Hallie Kiefer]

That's good. It's nostalgia. And I also feel like it's, we have to cling to something from the past. And I think Martha Stewart is a good, good thing to cling to.

[Jon Lovett]

I also, it does also evoke an era where you reach a certain stage of your career and it was time to launch a magazine that had your name on it and your face on every issue. And that was a beautiful part of it too. Like there was the Oprah magazine. Oh, there was the Martha. There's Martha Stewart Living. There was George, which was always a part of it. So that's different, I suppose. But okay, I accept my diagnosis.

[Elijah]

All right, so that was a two. You got the online sniffles. You can deal with it at home.

[Jon Lovett]

We'll be right back with more Love it or leave it. Love it or leave it Brought to you by Prolon. Changing up your health routine can be challenging. If you don't have a plan, it can be even more difficult to stick to routine. That is what makes Prolon's five day program a total game changer. Prolon provides a clear plan with specific daily meals, making it easy to stay focused and achieve real results. Prolon's Fasting Mimicking diet is a revolutionary plant based nutrition program that nourishes the body while making cells believe they're fasting. They're conf used research and developed for decades at USC's Longevity Institute and backed by leading US medical centers, Prolon helps support healthy blood sugar, enhanced skin appearance, fat loss and improved energy and focus. Post fast. It all starts with their five day program. Snacks, soups and beverages designed to keep your body in a fasting state. No guest worker planning required. With Prolon you get everything you need prepackaged and ready to go. Each of Prolon's five day programs come with five boxes labeled so you know know what to eat each day. Three consecutive cycles of Prolon have been shown to reduce your biological age score by an average of 2.5 years and your waist circumference by 1.5 inches. Tell Kickstart a health plan that truly works. Prolono is offering loved or leaving listeners 15 off site wide plus a 40 bonus gift. When you subscribe to their 5 day nutrition program, just visit prolonlife.com Love it. That's P-R-O-L-O-N-L-I-F-E.com Love it. To claim your 15 discount and your bonus gift prolonglife.com Love love it.

[Hallie Kiefer]

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[Jon Lovett]

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[Hallie Kiefer]

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[Elijah]

Hallie when are you two online? This week?

[Hallie Kiefer]

I. I have a TikTok video I'm gonna call it when we. We don't watch the whole thing because it's quite long. So if we could just take a look at my video and we could discuss.

[Jon Lovett]

All right, so while my food is finished cooking, I'm gonna give you guys a speedrun of the cute winter boots that I found these last few days. So this first pair I found in Tennessee, I really think this is more of a Valentine's Day boot than a winter boot is because it's like, it's pink. It's got all these cute little black hearts about it. And the cutest thing in my opinion is the aglets. If you guys don't know what an aglet is, you should definitely look it up or look up that Phineas and.

[Hallie Kiefer]

All right, I think that's plenty. So basically the audio you just heard is a young woman on TikTok talking about buying a pair of boots. And at the end she says, like, you buy it on the TikTok shop, you know, and what she's showing is a series of notebook paper where she has written out Basically, please Google Tennessee SB6202HB 6001. Which is a. It's one of those things where the reason I want to bring this up is like, I read the news all day, every day, but there's a lot of state level stuff I don't see. And this is the first time I had heard of this bill, which is awful. And I'm going to read what it is. And so what this woman is trying to do is how can I use the fact that TikTok is essentially just a shop to try to boost this into the, you know, essentially this is an ad for these boots. How do I Boost this and spread this. And the bill, which they both passed. So Tennessee created, through this bill, essentially, a. They put aside $5 million to create sort of a separate Immigration Enforcement Division through the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security. And then basically what they're saying is if you have to go renew your license and you are a legal resident but a non US Citizen, they are only going to give you a temporary license, which visually looks different. And so, like, if, say, you could prove your resident, I'm assuming birth certificate, Social Security card, passport, you get a regular card. If you can't, they give you a temporary one. So when somebody looks at it, they can then see it's temporary. And I presume they want to basically create separate IDs in case you're not for, you know, not a citizen. And then it makes it a felony for local officials, such as a county commissioner or city council member, to vote for any policy making any kind of city or town a sanctuary city. So basically, if you are an elected representative in Tennessee, you could be charged with a felony for voting for a sanctuary policy. I didn't hear about any of this. This is just something that I completely missed. Me. And I don't know if this is just me being online, but it's one of those things where I, unfortunately for work, have to be online. And then I appreciated this young woman's attempt. And the rest of the video is about trans people's passports. It's all about IDs and how they're changing IDs, and I really appreciate that she was trying to do what felt like a unique thing. I've seen people do this with other things, but I hadn't seen it for a specific state law, like, just to look it up. And so I don't know. I appreciate whether it's effective. I have no idea. I mean, the algorithm does, at least for me, on TikTok is constantly showing me advertisements. So I was like, well, I'm glad this came to me. And maybe it's because I have purchased something on TikTok and now it knows that about me. So maybe I am getting more of these things, in which case I appreciate the effort. So I don't know if that's online. It's just the only thing I've seen this week where I'm like, oh, I hadn't thought about the layers that this person's trying to access in TikTok.

[Jon Lovett]

So I think that that's kind of what's going on. But it's also part of another trend which is people on TikTok. So this idea of, like, winter boots. Have you seen like, like when people say, I need to get a pair of winter boots, it is also meant to mean, like, we need to have a revolution, but we're not allowed to talk about it. On TikTok, the content will be downvoted and the writing it on the paper is a kind of performance of this is dangerous and banned information. And you see people on TikTok making videos of. They're not telling us about the protests happening around the world for America. They're not telling us what's going on. There's no way to find out what's going on. We have to find interesting codes here on TikTok. But all of these issues are being talked about. If you, instead of trying to get your news via Chinese algorithm or tech bro algorithm, you go to newyorktimes.com or tennesseenewspaper.com or literally just consume news without it being mediated by these wealthy people. All way of saying is, is there are people that are like, performing that we're already living in an authoritarian state, when in reality what's going on is people are just choosing not to consume a lot of news. And like, both, like, I'm not saying this is not a great way to get people to know about what's going on in Tennessee, but also there's a lot of people acting as if TikTok is the only way to get information when there's lots of ways to find out what's going on in the world right now. No, the Internet is not preventing us from seeing what's happening. It's just that you are not a news consumer anymore because you have given yourself over to these tech platforms.

[Elijah]

That was. Thank you for articulating that because I get so frustrated by what you just described.

[Hallie Kiefer]

So love it. And Elijah are very down on TikTok. I thought it was helpful. So I don't need this rant. You understand what I'm saying?

[Jon Lovett]

Like this.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I work here. It's not for you.

[Jon Lovett]

It's not for the listeners of this.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I said something and instead of responding to it, I said, you went on this rant, which I've heard before from both you and Elijah. I don't need it. I need you to encourage me engage with what I said, which is, as someone who does read the news. I'm not. Not going to New York Times. When you say that to me, it's honestly very insulting. You know that I read the news.

[Jon Lovett]

But it's not a you. It's not a you.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Who are you talking to?

[Jon Lovett]

I'm talking to the people making these videos that are acting as if this information is not readily available.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I feel like I want to have a conversation about what they're doing and you have a pre prepared monologue that you felt prepared.

[Jon Lovett]

But that's. But the thing is you're saying, oh, I. I'm saying you're not being served that video because you bought something on TikTok shop. You're being served that video because the algorithm knows that you are part of a group of respond to content about acting as if we already live in a fascist state, which is exciting and interesting for a subset of people. You are an avid consumer of news. You are different than the people that are acting as if that is the way we need to convey information. But it isn't. The problem is people being on TikTok and thinking that's a way to find out what's going on in the world. It isn't. You know that because you don't consume all your information from TikTok. That's why it's not directed at you.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Why can't it be both? And why can't we talk about the positive parts of TikTok?

[Nish Kumar]

I'm not on TikTok.

[Jon Lovett]

Of course we can.

[Nish Kumar]

I pay a young person who actually understands it to put clips of my stand up on TikTok. But what, what I. So I have no dog in this fight. Okay. I have no dog whose birthday it may well be in this particular fight. I would say. What I would say is you're actually all correct in different ways.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Nish Kumar]

It is worth, it is worth celebrating because of the amount of particularly younger people who only consume all of their media through things like TikTok and Instagram. It is definitely worth celebrating idea that whoever this person is has managed to slightly game the algorithm to sneak that information. And even if one or two people who had no concept of that have seen that and engaged with what's happening in Tennessee, then that is a. A hugely valuable thing. Definitely. Also the other side of it, which is we need to train people to get information from places other than social media is a huge important thing because there's this sort of pervasive idea now that the biggest problem is that everybody views the Internet as a completely impartial source of information. That the old, old media is owned by oligarchs and the new media is completely democratic. But it isn't. It's just a different form. We've just got Slightly fewer oligarchs now, whether it's an oligarch or the Chinese government, either way, we're still. What information you're getting through the Internet is still massively filtered through a specific individual's perspective. So like that's the thing that we definitely like need to break with people. And also there is this very funny. I feel like it's a very specifically British thing, British Internet subsect, which is the mainstream media won't cover this story and then underneath it there will be a link to the BBC news website.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Right.

[Jon Lovett]

Where did you find out about it? Where did you find out about it?

[Hallie Kiefer]

Absolutely.

[Elijah]

Such a common trope.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I completely agree. What I'm asking is that we move past the monologue and we move past Totally dismissing TikTok talk because I, I'm.

[Jon Lovett]

On it all the time. I'm not totally dismissing Talk Talk. What it was a reaction to what you. I saw that video from you for the first time. It's not a pre prepared monologue.

[Elijah]

Ally. Can I offer a way to engage with it?

[Hallie Kiefer]

What do you mean?

[Elijah]

Well, for, for us to move forward with the video you're bringing and bring it in. So to our work.

[Jon Lovett]

I've.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I. Yeah. You could tell me what you say, I think. Yeah, Elijah, tell me, tell me.

[Elijah]

Well, we've been making these direct to camera, like for social videos. And what I'm taking away from what you've brought today is that, you know, like we source things from the Atlantic and the New York Times and Washington Post all the time. Is that instead of being like, hey, there's this huge story. Love it. Now you should be starting these videos off by saying like no one is talking, but thing is, and then immediately putting the graphic behind you that says like New York Times headline. And that's just how we should do them going forward because that's the language on the platform.

[Hallie Kiefer]

So everything you're saying is not in this video. The first thing she says is go ahead and Google it. Now I understand what you're saying, that there is an underlying conspiratorial idea that maybe gets people interested in it. But the idea I think it's deeply condescending to immediately dismiss using the app in different ways to get out specific ideas. I don't think this person would have said don't go to the New York Times. This person just Google it.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I'm not criticizing. I'm saying this is part of a trend and it's a larger trend. I have no problem with this video. I'm not criticizing the video. I am saying that, that the part where she is talking about winter boots is a specific. It's not about buying winter boots. It's a specific trend where that is meant to stand in for. We can no longer speak honestly. It is time to foment a revolution. And it's so dangerous to talk about. We have to use the term winter boots. Like, that's a real traction.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I think that that trend really is more about trying to use the algorithm. Like, I think, yes, I hear what you were saying, but I'm also like, that is how you do kind of have to use the algorithm. Like, if you want to manipulate the algorithm of an app that is just a store now, that doesn't seem unreasonable. And I think we have to engage with the idea that people are using the apps in this way and we'll have to, like, Twitter's unusable. I don't know. It's like, if people are manipulating them, I think that's interesting to talk about rather than immediately dismiss it as conspiracy.

[Jon Lovett]

Right. But what I'm saying is they're not doing it because it's not a look, it's not a store thing. It's not trying to game the algorithm around. It's. It's taking the term, it's instilling in the idea of like winter boots, this sort of secret knowledge. It's about a secret knowledge that everybody has. And it's a way of kind of performing radicalism without ever doing anything, without leaving your house. You see that here. I'm not saying in this video, but you see that with that trend. You see that with people kind of celebrating Mangione. You see that in a lot of different ways, where people are performing a kind of radical Chicago from their house, where their politics means you have to. You can make videos. You don't really have to do anything outside of your house. You don't have to do anything other than consume TikTok. And you are being, you are, you are being political, you are being radical, when really everyone is just kind of putting on a little show for each other. And I worry about that. And I don't think that's an illegitimate thing to worry about. Even if there are. It is also, as we use every day, these platforms is a great way to inform each other and try to get people to riled up and actually to do things in the world. I don't, I don't disagree with that, that the, the.

[Nish Kumar]

I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this because the UK Labor Party has said this week that there's going to be like massive push on getting information into social media and like actually like government messaging is going to go through. Is that a waste of their time or is that valuable? Because is the idea that you should be speaking about these things where people are actively listening? Like, that's the thing that I can't decide whether it's either condescending or patronizing or it's actually practical to actually start having conversations in places where people are talking right now.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I mean, I think it's practical. I also think, and I don't know what, because every country has like different rules around it. I think for me, for example, when you see like Amazon's about to buy TikTok, like then that will automatically change how people receive information through TikTok.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah.

[Hallie Kiefer]

So like, I think, I definitely think, I think the rapid response videos are great. I think meeting people where they're at I think is gonna be important and also acknowledging that like, like TikTok is where people get a lot of their information. So I don't know, I. I think it, it is important and like, practically helpful. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. I think it's just about how they do it. They have to figure out ways to communicate honestly and like, you know, there are good examples and bad examples. Like, I actually am surprised. Pos I'm pleasantly surprised by how much of a reaction there was to Cory Booker holding the floor for 24 hours. I. I did, like, I thought it was a good thing when I saw that he was doing it. And then I would click in and out and like, I like Cory Booker, but he could be pretty cheesy. And like, there are cheesy moments, but then like tons of it is getting clipped, tons of it getting shared. And there is just a hunger out there for people to see politicians actually doing something and taking it seriously and being passionate. In part because a lot of what politics is just doesn't get to those places and in part because a lot of our politicians haven't done enough and haven't seemed like they cared.

[Elijah]

Yeah, it's valuable. It's also, I feel like a little bit of a mystery because you have to be on the platforms. But this is kind of like when everyone was shitting on the AT Democrats account for putting up like a big graphic and then they started doing better social media. Well, the problem with reaching low propensity voters isn't the stuff coming from the AT Democrats account. It's reaching people through places where they don't normally get political or news information. So you got to do a lot more than that. But it's a good, like, first step. All right, how online is Hallelujah? Love it. I think you knowing the winter boots, kind of like Halle's sick. Like, she's a three. In my opinion, this revealed that you actually should be in the hospital at 4.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I think Hallie's a 3. I think Halle is, is sick, but doesn't necessarily need that much treatment.

[Nish Kumar]

I would say there's an interesting thing here because it's almost like there is a bit of online sickness, but at the same time you got some actual useful use out of it. So it's almost like you had bad diarrhea, but what you pooped out was a tape worm. So, like this, like, yeah, sure, it's like you, you had an online sickness, but it did have some, like you knowing about this. Tennessee state legislation is positive. So you, you. I can't think of a better, less disgusting medical analogy.

[Jon Lovett]

I mean, it's, it's, it's. I mean, I think it's the same way that, like penicillin comes from mold.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

You know, it's a, it's sometimes, sometimes leeches help.

[Elijah]

Yeah, we're all a little healthier for it. Okay, so Ally's a three. Love it. Side four for knowing that winter boots trend.

[Jon Lovett]

We'll be right back after these messages. But before we go to break, our reminder that you can now get Love it or leave it ad free and a 30 day free trial when you subscribe to Friends of the [e-mail] friends or through the Apple podcast app. Love it or leave it brought to you by Quints. If you're planning to go on vacation soon, you should treat yourself to a first class quality suitcase at an economy price tag from Quince. John just went on a trip. Yes, I did. And I needed some warm clothing because I saw snow for the first time in a year. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And, and I got some. I had a nice sweater from Quince. Nice Mongolian cashmere. Vacation season is nearly upon us this year. I'm treating myself to the lux upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices like lightweight shirts and shorts, $30 pants for any occasion, and comfortable lounge sets with premium luggage options and durable duffel bags to carry it all. The best part, all Quinn's items are 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts down on the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. We love that. We all. We just. John just talked about it. We love Quint. It's a great place you can go check it for everyday essentials that are incredibly reasonably priced and really well made. Some great sheets from Quintessential and it was I when I was shopping I went to Quints and then I went to a bunch of higher end brands and side by side it was like a no brainer. So everybody go to Quints for your next trip. Treat yourself to the lux upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.com love it. For 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U-I-N C E.com love it to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com love it. Instacart is here to keep you on the couch this basketball season. With pre game rituals and post game interviews, it's hard to find time for everything else. Let Instacart handle your game day snacks or weekly restocks with delivery in as fast as 30 minutes because it's bad luck to be hungry on game day. Download the Instacart app today and enjoy. $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants.

[Elijah]

Nesh when were you two online this week?

[Nish Kumar]

Well, I am completely obsessed with Morgan Wallen walking off snl.

[Hallie Kiefer]

What a dud. A full dud.

[Nish Kumar]

And then going on Instagram and posting a picture of a private I'm obsessed with every element of this story. It's almost difficult to disentangle what I'm most obsessed with. So the bare bones of it are Morgan Rollins, the musical guest on Saturday Night Live on Saturday. He then breaks with the broad protocol of the show, which is the musical guest stays on stage with the host and all of the cast and does the good nights. He walks off during the credits. He then goes to his private jet, which presumably is not on a fixed schedule. So there was no temporary excuse.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

He then posts a picture of it and the caption that says get me to God's country. He then now, as of I believe this morning, is selling hats and T shirts on his official website with the viral quote get me to God's country on them. And to me, the reason that I think this makes me incredibly online is I before two days ago had never heard of Morgan Wallen and now he feels like the most important character of my life because he's intersected with my interests, which are SNL and comedy. And so the fact that he walked, like, even I know. Even British people know you don't walk off during the good nights. You stand there, you wave for about, I think, a minute and a half.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. The credits for the length of the credits.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Right. It's the show that's been out for 50 years. They celebrated 50 years. Now this.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah. This spring, everybody knows for half a century. You. Yeah, you do the same thing. But the thing that I think is so, like, I. The idea that people are now selling. People selling merch based on posts is like, it's. It's the. As the end game, we're all. We're all in just a kind of like a sort of existential Internet.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Everything's merch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

Going back to. Also, the idea that he's like, I got to go back to God's country. Obviously, that's incredibly condescending and patronizing. But also within that, this, like, guy where he's like, I need to go back to, like, the real America via private jet.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Also, I believe you went to Nashville, which is country music, Hollywood. Like, that's like, what God? A white God, I guess.

[Nish Kumar]

I went to Nashville for the first time about three weeks ago. I had a very fun time doing a tour show there. I went to Broadway. I will say, God has not touched that place in a long time.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, no, absolutely not.

[Nish Kumar]

I do mean, this is a full insult. The most British place I've ever been to in America. Because if you take away the trappings of country music, which is popular in Britain, but not to the same extent, the behavior of the people on Broadway. I have never felt more at home in America in my entire life. Just people drunkenly fighting with each other on a Wednesday night. It really. I. I'd like to thank the. Whoever it was that got drunk and had a fight in Nashville for making me and my partner feel like we were in London.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, it was incredible. But for the threat of gunfire, it could be London. Yeah, yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

There's a lot less street vomiting. I'll say that for. I'll say that much for it.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I feel like it's like if London. If there was just 50% more bachelorette parties.

[Nish Kumar]

No, again, that is what. There's parts of London that are specifically devoted. And it's like being in the purge. Like, all the normal rules of society are abandoned. It's like Amsterdam in the wire for human decency.

[Jon Lovett]

Can I ask a question? Oh, Amsterdam. A lovely reference. Can I ask a question. Has there been any reporting that anyone was rude to Morgan Waller? Did anything go wrong for him?

[Hallie Kiefer]

That he was just too close to some homos?

[Jon Lovett]

I know, but I don't want to.

[Hallie Kiefer]

What the. What they're saying.

[Jon Lovett]

I don't want to. It's just. I don't want to jump to that obvious conclusion, but it's like, was it just being around the now gay ified snl, where now we have, like, real representation at long last in this medium?

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

And that was just too much, I think.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Unfortunately, yes.

[Jon Lovett]

It's. It's so. It obviously is not important, but it's like, it's so rude. Like, it's like, it's so cool to be on snl. It's such a. Like, so many musicians and bands would kill for the opportunity. It's the opportunity of a lifetime for so many people.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

And you're just like, you're. You spend the week with these people, and then you.

[Hallie Kiefer]

You agreed to go off.

[Jon Lovett]

You agreed to go off.

[Hallie Kiefer]

You signed up for this, and then.

[Jon Lovett]

You just, like, want to publicly be rude. Like, walking off is a way to publicly be rude as opposed getting back to God's country, which, again, like, I don't totally understand as a phrase. Presumably if you're Christian, you would believe that. I think, unfortunately, that's. It is godless.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, yeah. New York is godless. No, no, no. They think that it's like.

[Nish Kumar]

That's the.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, it's like the warriors over in New York.

[Nish Kumar]

What was it? I think there's a 30 Rock joke where they call it sex Criminal boat or something. Like in Kenneth Parcell's hometown in Stone Mountain, Georgia. Like, I think the problem with the way that he's left and the fact that he's back to God's country is the whole thing reeks of. I was around a lot of people, and I don't want to blow anyone's mind here, but some of them weren't white. And I think even some of them might also have been people that were homosexuals. Like, it just. It's very difficult. I know we don't want to all boil it down to that, but it's very difficult to not boil it down to that.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Well, I think it is that just because he has not issued a statement clarifying if it wasn't that, he could just say, like, oh, yeah, no, sorry, I was just.

[Jon Lovett]

Just in a rush to get back to my plane.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Or, like, referencing a song that's coming out. Like, he could have said anything to clarify it. And he didn't. And my thing that I don't like about it is that this merch is obviously like, it looks like the most chatgpt merch to me. It's like that's AI they like poofed it out. It's ugly, it's very generic. And they immediately start mass producing it, I'm sure, like the worst quality. So it's not even like, oh, okay, that's a funny thing that people, like, caught on and we had somebody draw something up. It's nothing.

[Nish Kumar]

Well, and also, so Kenan Thompson gave an interview after this all happened and he did say it was weird. They didn't seem to be. He'd suggested that there was no inference that something had happened in the week that would cause him to be upset. And he said that he definitely saw that. He definitely saw it when he prematurely departed. And he said it was all sort of weird. But then he said, I thought maybe he had to go to the potty or something. Which is like a very. A line you can easily imagine in Kenan's voice. But yeah, there was no inference he'd refused to be part of a pre taped scare. And apparently they replaced him with one of the Jonas Brothers. But the report is that he was reportedly supposed to be in a pre tape musical sketch and he declined to be in it. But other than that, there doesn't seem to have been any kind of particular fight about it. But I just think the grift of these people to post something and then almost immediately have merch ready to go on, it shows you the transparency of how little any of this means to any of them. And everything, everything, everything now is just a grift and a way to sell merch. Like, it's, there's no, there's absolutely no love or, or anything behind any of this. It's literally just we're going to be dicks and then we're going to do a grift based on posts.

[Elijah]

And the whole cycle just feels very Trump 1.0. Yeah, like he does. He didn't get the memo of how crazy MAGA is now. And just like being passive aggressive, walking off, posting on your Instagram stories, like actually very soft and kind of bitch made. Like, you can just go on and just like criticize these people now and have the full culture war fight. But like, no, he's just kind of very sensitive to. We don't, we can't really articulate. We just have to speculate.

[Jon Lovett]

There's also just like a like lack of like, gratitude, not even just to snl, but, like, who cares about that? But, like, just in a broader way. To, like, to get to be a famous musician is such a lucky thing. And it, like, it reminds me of this. It's not my. It's like, somebody joke about Paul Newman. And, like, the career. Every. The path every famous person's career takes, which is, who's Paul Newman? Get me Paul Newman. Get me a Paul Newman type. Get me a young Paul Newman. Who's Paul Newman? And, like, that's the path everyone takes. And, like, okay, great. You're in your big moment. Like, what did you do with it?

[Hallie Kiefer]

Right?

[Jon Lovett]

Like, you acted like a little bitch.

[Hallie Kiefer]

And also, it's like, to have, like. Like, you said, like, the most soft life. Like, it's like, you. This is not a problem. You're creating an issue that doesn't exist because you have no problems. Which, to me, is very conservative in terms of, like, we have to exist. And by we, I mean anyone who's not conservative, we have to be. They're confronting our existence or New York's existence in order to storm off and sell merch. If it wasn't for New Yorker snl, then what would the merch be? It's like, you don't have anything without the resistance that you've created in your mind.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah. It's also a weird thing to be like, I've got to get out of this place whose, like, iconic television show invited me to do a performance, even after which, again, I didn't realize at the time he was scheduled to perform, like, in 2020.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, yes.

[Nish Kumar]

I remember that until some footage emerged of him breaking COVID 19 protocols. And he was. His appearance was, like. I think it was, like, canceled. And then. And then they came back to it. So, like, it is weird that there's, like, this is an organization at an institution that is showing you, like, a huge amount of, like, leeway. And, you know, it just seems like. It just seemed like such a incredibly petulant thing to do. But then when he starts selling the merch, you realize, like, literally everything is a grip. Like, these people wake up every morning, and all they can think about is what is the next grift? And you're like, we're, like, all being dragged into hell by a group of people whose only interest is to try and sell hats.

[Elijah]

And I. Yeah, Nesh is a one.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, that's a one.

[Hallie Kiefer]

You just.

[Jon Lovett]

You saw. You saw the biggest culture story of the week.

[Hallie Kiefer]

This is on people.com. it's not online. Yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

My only argument for this being an online thing is I literally had never heard of Morgan Wallen until I saw a picture of him on Twitter looking like he didn't understand how cameras work.

[Jon Lovett]

We're not saying you weren't a zero when you found the story, right?

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Elijah]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

You were healthy and fine and now you just have a. What is a one? A headache.

[Elijah]

Oh, you're fine. No one is. You're fine. A passing headache. You got a little dirt in your eye maybe? Yeah, blink it out.

[Nish Kumar]

I think 0 is somebody printed a tweet and pushed it into the middle of the book.

[Hallie Kiefer]

That's the dream. That's how. That's how Megan Marle interacts with the Internet. Just a printed out binder of tweets for her to look through.

[Elijah]

All right, so niches are one.

[Jon Lovett]

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[Hallie Kiefer]

Weird.

[Jon Lovett]

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[Elijah]

All right, let's get to mine. I was too online this week when I decided I wanted to zero in after Ashton hall, that crazy morning routine video on something that I'm going to call the Fancy dog Male Treatler retreat. Now this is.

[Hallie Kiefer]

You're calling it that, okay?

[Elijah]

I'm calling it that.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Okay?

[Elijah]

And I, I think it's you know, ashen hall and a lot of these like male like get ready with me things or what I like to call fancy dog content because it's just like if men were like fancy poodles that like get, you know, like fruit and all that kind of thing.

[Jon Lovett]

Pampered.

[Elijah]

Yeah. This is specific content for high priced retreats where men get together and like eat steak and like do cold plunges and like, like don't suck each other off but like maybe like why not a little bit? Come on, let me play an example.

[Jon Lovett]

Join me as I host my first men's retreat, Design your life. The intention was simple yet profound, helping men live life by design rather than by default. We gathered at an incredible five acre property just outside Austin. It offered space in solitude, creating the perfect container for deep transformational work. Each day began with meditation, followed by workouts, immersive workshops and five star meals prepared by our on site private chef. We also had surprise guest speakers and unique experiences that added to the magic of the weekend. The breakthroughs, belief shifts and aha moments were truly inspiring. Not just for the guys, but for me as well. Witnessing these transformations reminded me of the incredible power of presence and intention.

[Elijah]

There were no distractions.

[Jon Lovett]

Distractions.

[Elijah]

All right, we get it, we get it, we get it. So I don't want to shit on this one too much. In Particular because this is actually like a relatively non toxic example of the genre. My point is that this is actually a genre and the staples of this genre are men getting together with men in a secluded location, sobriety, prepared meals made by a quote unquote private chef. That's not necessarily true. Often these meals are very meat heavy meditation and journaling, working out and cold plunges. Now this sounds like a nightmare to me. Getting together with a bunch of randos, being totally sober and talking about our life goals. But it's a whole little industry. The mother of all fancy dog male treatler retreats is something called the Bali Time Chamber. And I would love for you guys to take a look.

[Jon Lovett]

Wow. At the Bali time.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, that's a tough one.

[Jon Lovett]

No veganism, no women, no distractions, no smoking, no drugs, no video games, no laziness, no partying, no procrastination, no hookups, no toxic relationships, no scrolling, no Netflix. When you enter the Bali Time Chamber, the only thing to do is work on yourself, train consistently, eat premium meat, do sauna, walk to the waterfalls, reconnect with nature, build new habits, read books, do ice bath, meditate, exchange knowledge, learn new skills, get in your best shape ever and network with other like minded men.

[Nish Kumar]

This place is something different.

[Jon Lovett]

It's a sanctuary for men to grow. Would you go there? Well, would you first of all, a lot? Of course I would.

[Hallie Kiefer]

But the, the yeah, 100%.

[Jon Lovett]

So, so I, I, I was at A, A the B time chamber. Time chamber.

[Nish Kumar]

That's the last time I saw Love it.

[Jon Lovett]

I was at no Netflix. I love describing it as like exchanging knowledge. You mean having a conversation? You're talking about having a conversation.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Yes, but I was at this dinner and, and somebody ordered a skinny margarita and it was a bunch of women at the table and one of them was saying like I feel so bad ordering a skinny margarita. I feel silly saying that. I wish we had another name for it. And somebody at the table said oh, we should call them clean margaritas instead of skinny margaritas. And we were talking about it that like a skinny margarita is girl coated. But clean eating clean is more guy coded. It's a way of being on a diet. Diet it, it's Coke zero versus diet Coke.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Jon Lovett]

And like what you just showed has existed for women forever. It's called Canyon Ranch. It is a fancy resort that you go to and you're given a certain amount of, of, of food. You do spa, you do, you do exercise and sauna.

[Nish Kumar]

No Netflix. There's sadly hbo, Max And Hulu available.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, probably. For sure. I don't know that the smart TV situation is these days, but it's just so funny to have to, like. You know, it's like, PH balanced strong enough for a man, but PH balance for a woman, but, like, in reverse, because it's just like. You mean you want to go to a. You want to go to a spa for the weekend with the boys?

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, let's wait. What I want to know with that first one. It's like, what are the aha moments and what are this. What is the transformation?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Like, I would love to know what you walk away from more connected to or what you're. What you're thinking is. Because seeing this, I'm like, oh, it's like a fun vacation. I'd go to the Bali time chamber, but it wouldn't be for a psychological. It wouldn't be like, oh, I'm gonna spiritually or psychologically change. It would be like, you know, I get everything else, but the idea that these are sites of deep masculine change, that's. I guess I'm not. I don't know what that is.

[Jon Lovett]

It's a lie. It's a lie.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, yes.

[Nish Kumar]

I'll tell you what wasn't mentioned in either of those two adverts is an hour speaking to a trained therapist. Like, well, right. Yeah, we. Like, we. I would love. I. I would love for one of those adverts just to go, oh, and by the way, there's an hour where a kind person says, it wasn't your fault that your daddy never hugged you. Anyway. Like, it's the. Like, I. Listen. There is a crisis of masculinity. It's. There's. There's this huge thing where men are being radicalized by these, like, online charlatans. There should. We probably do need to have a conversation about men and the way men are behaving, but I don't think we will achieve that through the Bali time.

[Hallie Kiefer]

But also, like, God knows how much it is. That's like a $15,000. I mean, like, who knows how much it is?

[Elijah]

My email and I got. I got the literature, you know, so it's actually surprisingly cheap to go to the Bali time chamber.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, okay. Well, why are we doing.

[Elijah]

It's about $1,400 a week.

[Nish Kumar]

Wow.

[Hallie Kiefer]

That's not bad at all.

[Elijah]

I love Bali Time chamber. Love it.

[Jon Lovett]

Corporal Rashi, the Bali champion. No women. But the. But yeah, that's the other part of this, too, which is like, I don't know what problems these Men have. But I am sure it will not be solved until they have a healthy relationship with women. Even that. Even in that second video where it says the phrase build habits. Can't do that in a weekend. You actually can't do that. That's not how habits work there. These people are not transforming.

[Elijah]

You don't get it, dude. The Bali Time Chamber. One day in the Bali Time Chamber is equal to one year.

[Jon Lovett]

Beach from old.

[Elijah]

It's like the beach from old. It's actually like the. Based on the hyperbolic time chamber from Dragon Ball Z, according to the letter.

[Jon Lovett]

Oh, my God. It's. Wait, I'm sorry, hold on a second. It's actually inspired by Dragon Ball Z, the show that people my age watched while stoned out of their minds in college.

[Nish Kumar]

Are you joking?

[Jon Lovett]

Kidding me?

[Elijah]

Seriously?

[Nish Kumar]

I thought that was a joke.

[Elijah]

It's. It's in the brochure that I got sent to the boy.

[Jon Lovett]

No. Shut it down.

[Elijah]

Down.

[Jon Lovett]

Shut it down.

[Elijah]

Here's another thing they don't mention, Nish. Besides therapy, they don't mention in either the one from Austin where they go to the Airbnb that we first watch, or the Bali Time Chamber that it's shared bathrooms, so. Oh, God, if you share diarrhea and.

[Nish Kumar]

That amount of steak is an absolute nightmare.

[Elijah]

Exactly. So let's watch the last video, which is a video that I got of someone going to the Bali Time Channel. And then I kind of want to make a point that plays to what you guys are saying about what you actually learn from these. Today was my last full day at.

[Jon Lovett]

The Bali Time Chamber.

[Elijah]

Here's how it looked.

[Jon Lovett]

Woke up at 4:45, as always, followed.

[Elijah]

By my non negotiables, which are hydration goals, gratitude, stretching, and visualization. I also knocked out a cold plunge. After that, I jumped into a thousand feet of elevation, came home to btc, did some breath work with the other guys, and then after the breath work.

[Jon Lovett]

While we were all very focused focused.

[Elijah]

We did some visualization. I had six eggs, rice, tomatoes, baby potatoes, and coffee for breakfast. Then I jumped into two hours of deep work in the morning. At 12, I knocked out a push day. I didn't actually get any clips of the push day, but here's some clips of me doing muscle ups. After that, I had lunch, a steak, some fish, shrimp, potatoes. Since today was my last day, I really wanted to go back to the waterfall. So at 2pm we went to one of the waterfalls just 10 minutes away from the Bali Time Chamber, came home.

[Jon Lovett]

Did some more work, then had this.

[Elijah]

Massive Bali time chamber special burger for dinner. After that I did my reflection journaling, said bye to all the people that I met as well as all the amazing staff. Did a few tasks on my computer that I had to do and then went to bed. Next chapter of my life is going to be moving to Miami, dialing in and building a business that's going to.

[Jon Lovett]

Change lives of hundreds of men.

[Elijah]

If you guys want to keep up with my journey, follow my page for more now.

[Jon Lovett]

Sounds like a threat.

[Elijah]

Yeah, it's. His business is a window washing company, so I'm not exactly sure.

[Jon Lovett]

Is that actually what it is?

[Elijah]

Yes. And just so you know, if you read the caption to his Instagram, one of he says an all caps, I love growth. Which really does crack.

[Jon Lovett]

I will say that. But like if that's what you're, like if that's your deal, like if that's what you're excited about, I think it's actually very, it's like cool to be passionate about. Like it is like if what you're excited about is like, I'm going to move to Miami, I'm going to start this business, I'm going to hire a lot of people, I'm really going to build something. Like, I think that that's like a beautiful thing. The, the, the thing that made like you see that, that fucking influencer do that, that four and a half hour morning routine in which it only is possible if there's nothing that can disturb your routine. You have no obligations, you have no responsibilities and there's an off camera woman handing you bowls. Like the challenge of life is doing those good things for yourself. Gym, eating well, doing your whatever tasks while also caring about other people and understanding that life is hard and, and there's things that get in the way. Like yeah, it's not hard. You can, you can journal when you're at the Bali Time Chamber, but like are you going to be journaling when you're down there in Miami? I don't know.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah.

[Elijah]

Well, here's the thing. It strikes me as kind of like a multi level marketing, like an emerging multi level marketing system for men with, where you're always making content about how you're a fancy dog. And part of it is now you go to this retreat where you're really a fancy dog and you're constantly convincing people through more content about how you went to your retreat about how fancy of a dog you are and people should always be listening to you about how you're a fancy dog and you're Getting higher, up, higher.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, right. It's when your money. It's when your money comes from videos about how you're a fancy dog. Like, how do you afford to be a fancy dog dog? By showing people the ways in which I'm a fancy dog.

[Elijah]

Yep.

[Nish Kumar]

It's also.

[Elijah]

Go ahead.

[Nish Kumar]

No, no, no, go.

[Elijah]

I would totally fucking go to the Bali time chamber.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Well, sure.

[Jon Lovett]

Of course.

[Elijah]

It looks fucking awesome.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Could cover it. Not for Elijah, but for you.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I. I think it'd be good.

[Nish Kumar]

I just think with all the stuff about, like, we need more spaces to discuss masculinity, I do think that the solution to this is not. Not further secluding men from women. That's the. That's the thing that rubs me up the wrong way with a lot of this stuff is like, half of the problems we're facing are men are disappearing into these, like, all male online worlds that divorce them from the reality of society, which is half of the people in it are women. And you need to learn, like, it's. I just think that everything about it, I. I don't know, maybe it's just a personal prejudice for me, but whenever I look at those videos, I was like, I do not want to be stuck in a remote retreat with a bunch of guys that used to beat me up at school. Like, that is it. It looks like my worst fucking nightmare.

[Elijah]

Well, it is funny. The Bali time chamber versus the other one is like a downstream thing from, like, the Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate maha masculinity, where, like, it's not enough to just want to go and better yourself like the first one. Like, it's a grievance based, bettering yourself.

[Nish Kumar]

No women, no vegans.

[Elijah]

Like, that's a part of the marketing. All right, we're getting late on time here. How online am I? I have so much to say about this that I feel like I'm more online. But we'll stop here. I got the literature sent to my fucking email. I'm going to be getting a lot of Bali.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, yeah. They got. They got your ass.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. I mean, I think you're going. So I think you're a four. I think you're absolutely. Elijah. Elijah, I want you to know something. I had. You had asked me, like, do you know what this is? And I couldn't have told you what the name is, but I have 100% been served these videos.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Well, yes, I think you're a man. You're getting it. I'm getting slightly less so now that I'm a lesbian, but like the white woman's version of it. I actually know someone from my college who changed her name and opened one in Ojai and I believe her sister three days long for $5,000. So it's like it is the equal about. It's like one, I will go on vacation and I will be healed. It's a healing vacation, but strictly gendered.

[Jon Lovett]

Used to be. We call it a jump start, you know, and you can get that. At least you could get away with it. You're going for a jump start. I'm going to jump start my diet. I'm going to jump start my health. I'm going to jump start my thing. But now it's like I'm going to go through a transformation. No, you are not.

[Hallie Kiefer]

It's like this vacation just seems to gay. Yeah, I didn't want to.

[Nish Kumar]

I don't, I don't like, I don't want to reduce everything to this, but it is literally like all I think when I watch these videos is as capitalism decays around us, the system is not delivering what it needs to for individuals like, you can't make enough money from your job so you have to have like a second job. Your house is unaffordable. Everything in your life is increasingly expensive. And now the solution to that is to give an a different private company more of your money to settle down. The mental health crisis that are brewing by living in the consequences of a collapsing economic system. Like it is so evidence to me that everything about this is like late stage capitalism crisis.

[Hallie Kiefer]

At least you're jacked.

[Jon Lovett]

At least the end of the world.

[Hallie Kiefer]

You're fucking ripped, man.

[Jon Lovett]

I will. Yeah. The late stage capitalism though, it's actually here's the thing, I think it's like not.

[Hallie Kiefer]

We've always done this.

[Jon Lovett]

Capitalism is thriving. It's that it's gotten so good at capital, capitalism has gotten so good at capitalism realism that it is chewing us up and spitting us out. And we are all like, all of this is about maximizing, right? Maximizing your time. Like you're like, like very little. Was anything in that video about being happier? No.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah.

[Elijah]

To get extra deep off Nisha's point. Like it's about control after like a global pandemic political upheaval. You can control your non negotiables in the morning, your hydration, your grass attitude. Like that, like you're breathing, you know, like that kind of thing. And so no, it's not about happiness. It's just like clinging on to this little Bit of you can control, which is like being a fancy dog.

[Nish Kumar]

There was. There wasn't one bit of the video where anyone was laughing.

[Jon Lovett]

No, he's not a laughing matter. Transformation is no laughing. And laughing is gay. No straws either. No straws. No chicken. No chicken. That's a red meat trip.

[Elijah]

I. I love just. Man, I love being a regular dude who's just. Just loves a drink and has a couple friends who like to have a little drink. Just have a little drink. Okay, Lovett, be an alcoholic like your forefather. Lovett was a 2. Don't be an alcoholic.

[Jon Lovett]

Don't be an alcoholic.

[Elijah]

Let's recap. God, the Bali time chamber made everyone a little crazy. Okay, Love it was a two. He's got the sniffles for Meghan Markle's one. Pop pasta. Halle was a three. She needs to go to the doctor for winter boots and gaming the TikTok algorithm to tell people the news. Lovett got a side four for knowing the winter boot strength niche is a one. He got a little, like, you know, like piece of dirt in his eye for Morgan Wallen.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah, you gotta up your game here, snl.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Elijah]

And I was a four. I'm in the hospital for the Bali time chamber.

[Jon Lovett]

You're. You're at the Bali time chamber?

[Elijah]

Yeah, I'm at the Bali time.

[Jon Lovett]

God, he's got a heel.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Once you go in, you never come out, though.

[Elijah]

I love to make fun of the Bali time chamber. And I would totally go.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Absolutely.

[Jon Lovett]

It looks great. Looks great.

[Elijah]

All right, we are at time. We'll skip over Q and A's, but normally it shows Q and A's from our Discord subscribers. Go sign up for Friends of the pod. Get that 30 day free trial. Get ad free. Love it or leave it. And so much more.

[Jon Lovett]

What were the questions? Elijah? Elijah, what were the questions?

[Elijah]

Well, the question wants to know what Nish's favorite part of is coming to America. And have you ever gotten in a public altercation that you're willing to share? We could do either of those. They're from our Discord subscribers. Subscribe for the Discord.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, we kind of hit your first one.

[Nish Kumar]

Yeah. My favorite thing about touring in the States, the shows were great. And also so I have been. I am playing chicken with gout every single day.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

I'm in America.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Nish Kumar]

From this point, I had a brief respite in Canada, but every day in America, I am playing chicken with gout.

[Jon Lovett]

You coming to America is like me going to Wisconsin.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

In terms of food no rules, just right. This whole country is one big fucking cheese curd. Deep fried bonanza for you. And for me I see gradations. Cause I live here that you can't see. But for you, la Milwaukee, Milwaukee, one big fondue.

[Nish Kumar]

The thing that I, I'd never been to the south at all. And the southern states in America share the south of India's deep love of okra. And so I have been in absolute okra heaven. Oh my God. Deep fried okra is crazy. I went to a like fried chicken place in Atlanta and had like a side of deep fried. I went to one place in God, I went to a place in Portugal, Portland, and I had. It was like a kind of southern invitation place. But so maybe that's why I got the judgment. Because when I had, when I was actually in the south and I ate a portion of okra, it was not remarked upon. But in Portland, when I ate some invitation okra, the waiter actually said to me, you know, normally that's a portion for three people.

[Jon Lovett]

Okay, take off your, your, your judges room.

[Nish Kumar]

But yeah, so my side issues, my favorite thing about touring is understanding that the southern states share the love of okra that the Indian community shares. And it's like my treat food from when I was a kid. So I had that. That was the real highlight.

[Jon Lovett]

That's nice.

[Elijah]

That's awesome. All right. Love it. You want to take us away? Thank you for letting us on the Love it or Leave it feed.

[Jon Lovett]

That concludes our special crossover episode of Love it or Leave it on a subscription only show. Terminally Online. There's another Terminally Online out today just for subscribers. So much content. Subscribe to Friends of the Pod now to get ad free Love it or leave it AD free. Pont Save America exclusive shows like Terminally Online and Dan Feifer show Polar Coaster. And so more. It's the best way to support what we do here at Crooked Media as we try to build a progressive counterweight to right wing media. Boy, do we need one of those. Holy shit. The, the, the fulcrum on the counterweight's fucked right now.

[Hallie Kiefer]

It is kind of just you guys. I don't mean to say it like that, but you know, I read the news. I'm like, whoa, this guy.

[Jon Lovett]

And remember, for the month of April, you can get a 30 day free trial. Just go to crooked.com friends or sign up through the Apple podcast feed to get started. Thank you, Nish. Thank you, Hallie.

[Nish Kumar]

Thank you for having me.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Thank you for having me.

[Jon Lovett]

Thank you, Elijah.

[Elijah]

Thanks everyone.

[Jon Lovett]

See you sluts next week.

[Hallie Kiefer]

RIP Val Kilmer RIP Val Kilmer Pour.

[Jon Lovett]

One out for a real one. Love it or Leave it is a crooked media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our Associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer, Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Elaine Pierre, Will Miles and Mohanad El Shechy are our writers. Evan Sutton is our editor, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer and Milo Kim is our videographer. Our theme song is written and performed by Shirt Sure. Thanks to our designer Sammy Caderna Reeves for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast and to our digital producers David Tolus, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman and Matt De Groat for filming and editing videos each week so youo can and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. It's Love it or Leave It. This episode is brought to you by freshworks AI powered service software that makes work easier and processes less complex. Are you working harder than your software? Uncomplicate your business with Fresh Service for IT and freshdesk for customer support. Stop wrestling with clunky tools and start focusing on what matters delivering exceptional employee and customer experiences that drive ROI in weeks versus years, all with no hidden fees. Start working smarter, not harder, with Freshworks uncomplicated service software. Learn [e-mail] back pain and stiffness made mornings rough.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Pain made it tough to sleep until I started Cosentyx.

[Jon Lovett]

Cosentyx Secukinumab is the number one prescribed treatment for adults that targets IL17A, a molecule that play a role in inflammation that contributes to ankylosing spondyloarthritis or non radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, two types of inflammatory arthritis of the spine. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections.

[Hallie Kiefer]

Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an.

[Jon Lovett]

Infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or planned to or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentyx.com Ask your doctor about Cosentyx.

[Hallie Kiefer]

I got real relief with Cosentyx.