Nothin' But Netflix

Summary

Lovett or Leave It – “Nothin' But Netflix”

Podcast: Lovett or Leave It
Host: Jon Lovett
Date: December 13, 2025
Guests: Cameron Crowe, Tig Notaro

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Episode Overview

In this lively, year-end episode of Lovett or Leave It, Jon Lovett brings his signature satirical wit to a whirlwind of topics, combining political lampooning, Hollywood industry chaos, and deep-dive interviews with iconic filmmaker Cameron Crowe and comedian Tig Notaro. The show captures the absurdity of U.S. politics under Trump, the instability and transformation of the entertainment business, and the personal journeys of two revered guests. The tone is irreverent and self-aware; Lovett’s live audience energy blends perfectly with the guests’ warmth and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Political Satire & The Netflix/Warner Bros. Deal

(00:00 – 18:00)

• Lovett dives into the latest political and media absurdities, focusing on Trump’s tantrums over Paramount and Warner Bros. coverage, and the blockbuster announcement that Netflix plans to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery for $83 billion.
• Hollywood anxieties loom large as Lovett lampoons the concentration of media power and the sycophancy of entertainment execs courting Trump’s favor.
• The conversation riffs on imagined Rush Hour sequels, CNN programming takeovers, and the influence of Jared Kushner and Middle Eastern wealth funds in Hollywood deals.
• Alongside all this, Lovett skewers Trump’s public statements about the economy, healthcare debates in Congress, and Republican efforts to let Obamacare subsidies expire.

Notable Quotes

• Jon Lovett (03:53):
  “Will Warner Brothers be sucked up into a giant monopoly in which a half dozen people decide what a third of us watch every night after dinner? Or will it be sucked up into a different giant monopoly. I'm on the edge of my seat in a car that is going into the ocean.”
• On Trump’s economic claims:
  “He's never sounded more like a cartoon rich guy. They're making up new words. Affordability, bogo, coupon. No one knows what they mean.” (08:56)

2. Cameron Crowe Interview: Art, Listening, and Biopics

(19:45 – 42:43)

Crowe’s Journalism Origins

• Lovett and Crowe discuss Crowe’s new memoir, The Uncool, and his uncanny ability to get musical legends to open up to him as a teen prodigy.
• Crowe reflects on his art of interviewing: “Part of it was listening, because I was terrified the first time I did an interview with somebody who's kind of like, of great status... I realized by the end of the conversation that I made him really happy by not talking.” (20:47–21:32)

Finding Your Voice, Authenticity, and Criticism

• The conversation delves into the tension between being a “fan” vs. a critical journalist. Crowe recalls a defining moment at Rolling Stone when his editor challenged him to “write something that's coming from a deeper place.” (24:05)
• Crowe explains that his approach is not to judge but to include fans in the experience: “I just kind of want to be on receive and let people sit next to me...” (23:11)

On Biopics & Joni Mitchell Project

• Crowe, currently working on a Joni Mitchell biopic, details his philosophy: “Don’t leave the fans behind... but also bring in people that don't know who she is and don't whitewash the story. And she's, like, the queen of not whitewashing.” (25:20)
• The two criticize formulaic music biopics, especially cliches like the magical origins of hit songs. Lovett: “My least favorite thing in any biopic about any artist is... Ringo's walking down the street and he sees a yellow car and a submarine and he goes, I've got it.” (28:25)
  Crowe: “We're not gonna do that. Nor are we gonna have the record executive scene where it's like, that song is eight minutes, it'll never be a hit...” (29:04)

Vulnerability and Early Experiences

• Crowe recounts his traumatic encounter with Gregg Allman that inspired Almost Famous: “He threatened a kid, a literal child, and stole the tapes. Made you sign something fake and took the tapes from you, which was... basically a crime.” (32:15)

Internet & Writing Craft

• On the digital era: “Fact checkers don't exist anymore. People can just, like, spew stuff out. And the thoughtful stuff always lands best.” (35:47)
• On songwriting, he lauds Don Henley and Tom Petty for crafting songs that “sound simple and easy, like a conversation with a friend. And that's the stuff that I love most of all.” (36:33)

On Movie Theaters & Entertainment’s Evolution

• Crowe voices concern over the decline of movie theaters: “A good movie can break through on any format, I think. But yeah, I mean, going and sitting in a theater... that's the Tom Cruise version of moviemaking.” (37:03)

We Bought a Zoo—Title Regrets & Alternate Names

• In a comedic segment, Lovett puts Crowe on the spot about the much-memed title We Bought a Zoo:
  Crowe: “So nobody ever really stopped to say, should we really call this movie We Bought a Zoo? Nobody.” (38:47)
  Audience participates in brainstorming better movie titles, Crowe picks "Keeper" as his favorite. (42:05–42:29)

3. Tig Notaro Joins: Pop Culture, Comedy, and Vulnerability

(45:29 – 62:39)

Outsider to Pop Culture, Musings on Fame

• Tig admits her notorious lack of awareness about pop culture (“Who is Jen Shaw?” (47:58)), but is deeply attuned to music and documentaries.
• She describes her talk show “Under a Rock with Tig Notaro”, where she interviews celebrities she doesn’t recognize.

Current Projects & Humor

• Notaro shares about her appearance in Star Trek: Starfleet Academy and a Zack Snyder film, joking about pitching “a whole action film full of lesbians. And the poster will say, hot lesbian action.” (52:17)

Cameron Crowe and Tig: Embarrassment & Self-Acceptance

• Lovett and Crowe discuss the catharsis of writing/sharing embarrassing personal stories:
  • Crowe: “The more embarrassing, the better. Don't you see? ... Embarrassing is cathartic and ultimately funny.” (56:39)
  • Tig: “I used the world as my toilet growing up... I never would have imagined that I would be completely fine talking about any of that kind of stuff.” (58:26)
• The trio reflect on how humor and creative work reframe past vulnerabilities and failures.

4. Resolutions: What We’ll Change and What We Won’t

(62:45 – 76:54)

• The hosts and guests spin a wheel to muse on their resolutions and what in themselves they steadfastly refuse to change in 2026.
• Cameron Crowe:
  • Won’t change: his compulsion to “keep everything” – he’s a pack rat who saved copious notes for his memoir. (65:15)
  • Will change: Time “to direct again,” referencing his two-year writing period and excitement for the Joni Mitchell film.
• Tig Notaro:
  • Won’t change: newfound love for working out, despite not seeing instant results: “No difference in the look of my body. But I feel good.” (68:27)
  • Will change: saying no more often, and cultivating directness in communication—"I want people to tell me no." (69:29–70:11)
• Jon Lovett:
  • Won’t change: using his phone in bed (“I'm just gonna use my phone in bed before bed until it's time for my eyes to literally close.” (71:30))
  • Will change: treating his (recently diagnosed, “terminal”) ADHD with medication; embraces his quirks, jokes about replying to emails only on Fibonacci-numbered years. (74:41–76:00)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• 03:53 – Lovett on Media Monopolies:
  “Will Warner Brothers be sucked up into a giant monopoly... I'm on the edge of my seat in a car that is going into the ocean.”
• 08:56 – Lovett on Trump’s Language:
  “They're making up new words. Affordability, bogo, coupon.”
• 20:47 – Cameron Crowe on Interviewing:
  “I realized by the end of the conversation that I made him really happy by not talking.”
• 28:25 – Lovett on Biopic Tropes:
  “My least favorite thing in any biopic... Ringo's walking down the street and he sees a yellow car and a submarine and he goes, I've got it.”
• 29:04 – Crowe on Biopic Cliches:
  “Nor are we gonna have the record executive scene where it's like, that song is eight minutes. It'll never be a hit.”
• 32:15 – Lovett on Gregg Allman Incident:
  “He threatened a kid, a literal child, and stole the tapes. Made you sign something fake and took the tapes from you.”
• 35:47 – Crowe on Internet & Writing:
  “Fact checkers don't exist anymore. People can just, like, spew stuff out. And the thoughtful stuff always lands best.”
• 45:58 – Tig Notaro on Industry Cliches:
  Her wife’s favorite: “When somebody from a label is listening... on a payphone, they're like, ‘Man, you gotta hear them.’”
• 52:17 – Notaro:
  “Why don't we just make a whole action film full of lesbians? ... The poster will say, hot lesbian action.”
• 56:39 – Crowe on Embarrassment:
  “The more embarrassing, the better. Don't you see? ... Embarrassing is cathartic and ultimately funny.”
• 68:27 – Notaro on Working Out:
  “No difference in the look of my body. But I feel good.”
• 71:30 – Lovett on Phone Habits:
  “I'm just gonna use my phone in bed before bed until it's time for my eyes to literally close.”
• 74:41 – Lovett on ADHD and Medication:
  “Every day from about 9 to 3:30pm, I'm a superior being... And then I'll crash and burn. Yeah, then I'll crash and burn. Worth it.”

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Closing Thoughts

This episode combines Lovett’s biting political analysis, insider Hollywood commentary, and thoughtful, funny interviews with Cameron Crowe and Tig Notaro. The live format sparkles, as guests trade barbs, confess neuroses, and muse freely about art, embarrassment, and the state of the world. The recurring theme is one of self-acceptance and learning: as individuals, as a culture, and as citizens in a chaotic political moment. Both listeners seeking insight into the entertainment industry, and those wanting a smart laugh about politics and getting older, will find plenty to enjoy.

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Transcript

[John Lovett]

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[Tig Notaro]

Believe it.

[John Lovett]

What's up, los angeles? Welcome to Love it or Leave it live at Dynasty Typewriter. We got a great show for you tonight. This is our last show of the year. We're going out strong. Cameron Crowe is here and I'm almost famous. Ting Notaro is back and we're Gonna close out 2025 with what we loved, what we'll leave and what we learned and what we simply refuse to accept as we head into the undiscovered future. There's so much to not accept. I made it weird. But first, let's get into it. What a week. After 60 Minutes aired an interview with his ally turned nemesis, Marjorie Taylor Greene, President Trump attacked the show and its corporate parent, writing, my real problem is, is that the new ownership of 60 Minutes, Paramount, would allow a show like this to air. They are no better than the old ownership who just paid me millions of dollars for fake reporting about your favorite president. Me since they bought it. And 60 Minutes has actually gotten worse, added Trump. And bring back Andy Rooney. That's a good idea. It's fine. If it's possible. This is the thanks Paramount gets for paying Trump millions of dollars to settle a ridiculous lawsuit, installing Bari Weiss as editor in chief of CBS News and greenlighting Rush Hour four at Trump's personal request. And to be clear, that last one is fine. I think Biden or Kamala would have also demanded a new Rush Hour movie, just a natural thing for the president to do given all that's going on. Trump's tantrum is poor timing for Paramount, which hopes he'll put his thumb on the scale in their quest to acquire Warner Brothers. And time is of the essence. Trump's thumbs could fall clean off at any moment. As you know, last Friday, Netflix announced plans to buy Warner Brothers discovery for $83 billion. To put that number in perspective, it's $83 billion. If finalized, Netflix would acquire the studio and streaming business, while the cable unit would be spun off into a separate company. And for some reason, Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos demanded a fur coat made of the WB's finest animaniacs. Netflix has already been hit with a class action lawsuit seeking to block the deal, and a group of anonymous top filmmakers wrote a letter to Congress warning that the merger would be a disaster for Hollywood. And I don't know how many more disasters Hollywood can take. We still haven't recovered from the strikes, the fires, the arc light closing, and all the movie stars getting their eyes done at once, showing up fucking different, looking younger and surprised all at once. What the fuck? How was there a deal? Where'd all the lower bluffs go? Just some horrible pile of lower bluffs sitting in Beverly Hills somewhere. The anonymous filmmaker said in that open letter that they left the note unsigned, not out of cowardice, but out of fear of retaliation. Which signals that perhaps not a lot of prominent writers were part of the letter. It's impossible to know who the filmmakers are, though one of them did add, PS I wouldn't fuck Paul Dano with somebody else's feet. And who would say that? Could be anybody. Speaking of not accepting defeat, Paramount. Yes, you are welcome. Fucking yes. Speaking of defeat, Paramount launched a hostile takeover bid to buy Warner Brothers Discovery, going straight to shareholders with an all cash$30 per share offer. Pretty exciting stuff. Will Warner Brothers be sucked up into a giant monopoly in which a half dozen people dec what? A third of us watch every night after dinner? Or will it be sucked up into A different giant monopoly. I'm on the edge of my seat in a car that is going into the ocean. And with the future of Hollywood at stake, these titans of industry are engaged in one of the biggest and most consequential ass kissing contests in human history. But which globe bestriding magnate will attend to the task with greater passion? Which billionaire will get their mouths deeper, use their lips more assertively upon the presidential crack? Who shall play the most beautiful version of of hold to the Chief? David Ellison, the head of Paramount and son of billionaire Larry Ellison made a recent visit to Washington and promised Trump officials that if he bought Warner Brothers, he would overhaul CNN's programming. Ellison allegedly even promised Trump that one of the N's in CNN can stand for any N word he wants. On Wednesday, Trump confirmed that he likes where Ellison's head is at.

[Cameron Crowe]

I just think that the people that have run cnn, I don't think they should be entrusted with running CNN any longer. So I think any deal should, it should be guaranteed and certain that CNN is part of it or sold separately.

[John Lovett]

This is Anderson Cooper and he is waiting for someone to adopt him before he is put down. And he's one of so many anchors in need of a home. Meanwhile, the financial backers of Paramount's bid include three Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds and the private equity firm led by none other than Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. It's unnerving how quietly Jared moves through the world these days. He disappears from view. You start to forget about him and then all of a sudden he comes crawling out of the ceiling at Warner Bros. Pitching a movie about a super tall pale guy everybody likes. With its new investors, Paramount is promising to create all kind of exciting new films as part of a merger with hbo. Like Harry Potter and the now explicitly Jewish bank goblins Harry Potter and the journalist who had it coming, Barbie 2. Ken was right the whole time. And a brand new cable channel, Riyadh, Comedy Central. Bloomberg reported over the weekend that Sarandos went to the White House last month to meet with Trump and the two struck up quite a rapport. They bonded over their shared interest in Ted Sarandos, complimenting Trump for several hours in a row. When Trump was asked about the deal on Sunday, he told reporters, well, that's gotta go through a process and we'll see what happens. Trump then tried to imitate the Netflix sound Bing Bong. But it's not just Hollywood that's terrified about its economic future. In response to growing anger about the cost of like Bing Bong. Cost of living. Trump continues to claim it's all a big scam from the Democrats.

[Cameron Crowe]

They say, oh, he doesn't realize prices are high. Prices are coming down very substantially. But they have a new word. You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability.

[John Lovett]

He's never sounded more like a cartoon rich guy. They're making up new words. Affordability, bogo, coupon. No one knows what they mean. Trump, of course, hewed closely to the prepared remarks, relentlessly driving his message about how much he is focused on the economy.

[Cameron Crowe]

I didn't say shithole. You did. Remember? I said that to the senators. They came in, the Democrats, we had a meeting, and I say, why is it we only take people from shithole countries? Right? Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden? Just a few. Let us have a few.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, man, we asked. It's a pass. They have social democracy and universal health care. Norway and Sweden don't want their children to die because of gun violence. They want their children to die the Scandinavian way from a vitamin D deficiency or at the hands of an ice witch. And then Trump played the hits. Because, baby, that's what the people came to see transgender.

[Cameron Crowe]

For every member in your family, if they're not feeling well that night, let's just change their sex.

[John Lovett]

And when he is actually forced to discuss the economy, Trump is telling the American people to trust him and not their own experience. I wonder what grade you would give. A. A, A. That ought to cheer up your kids when they're unwrapping their Christmas present. One loose cigarette. Also this week, Trump pledged a $12 billion aid package to help American farmers hurt by Trump's trade wars. A little bit of a sorry you lost your housewarming gift, but if I've learned anything from trash television. Farmer doesn't want a government check. Farmer wants a wife. Besides, $12 billion is a drop in the bucket when American farms are predicted to lose $34 to $44 billion annually because of Trump's tariffs and trade policies, said the president of the American Soybean association on cnn. Does anybody need a trillion beans? No. No. Here's his actual response in terms of the long term.

[Tig Notaro]

Does this fix things?

[John Lovett]

Well, this is a band aid on an open wound. Band aid on an open wound. Great idea, said Senate Republicans, proposing band aids for open wounds as a replacement for expiring Obamacare subsidies. Yes, Republicans are resigned to allowing the subsidies to expire at the end of the month. Here's Kansas Senator Roger Marshall on Tuesday.

[Cameron Crowe]

Rita I can share with you that I've had multiple bipartisan conversations and we're not going to be able to get a solution done in the next several weeks.

[John Lovett]

The parties are too far apart on.

[Cameron Crowe]

This critical, critical issue.

[John Lovett]

The parties are too far apart. What is this? Me not leaving the House on New Year's Eve. Then Senate Majority Leader John Thune announced a vote on a Republican alternative to the current Democratic plan to renew the subsidies for three years, setting up dueling votes on Thursday. And sadly, America is the is the Ned Beatty in this scenario. Rather than extend the subsidies, the Republican alternative sets up savings accounts into which the government would pay about $1,000 per year for eligible Americans. Of course, $1,000 would not help in an actual medical emergency like a car accident or cancer diagnosis or eating ice cream while Jewish. Meanwhile, Mike Johnson told the press that House Republicans will bring a vote next week on their package of health care proposals that also does not extend Obamacare subsidies. We have some low hanging fruit. We have some things that every Republican agrees to. Democrats won't remember.

[Cameron Crowe]

They don't actually want to fix this problem.

[John Lovett]

You know, health care ideas every Republican can agree to, like wooden spoons to bite down on lobotomies for mouthy Kennedys, prayer, a free app for tracking nocturnal erections, chromosomal testing for that tall woman you saw at the bank, and Q tips because you know, these guys are just getting in there, you know, these freaks. On Wednesday, a group of more vulnerable House Republicans led by Pennsylvania Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick rebelled against the leadership, attempting to force a vote on a bill to extend the expiring subsidies. And wouldn't you know it? Marjorie Taylor Greene, among the Republicans who signed the discharge petition. What happened to her? Did Clarence the angels show her what the world would look like if she were never born? And it was fucking awesome. On Thursday, the Democratic bill to extend Obamacare failed, virtually guaranteeing that Americans who relied on these subsidies will see their premiums double or more likely, not see it since their eyeballs fell out. And so we end the year as we began it, still somehow working through our pandemic tuna. Just me. Okay. The truth is, this was always going to be a rough year. But for my part, I am ending 2025 more hopeful than when it began. And I'm not even in therapy right now. Probably means I never even needed it to begin with. Trump came in like a wrecking ball in January, purging the federal government, bullying colleges and law firms, turning the government into a piggy bank for his friends and family, destroying USAID knocking down the East Wing, unleashing a radicalized ice into our communities, releasing the last living Melania Trump into the wild. But underneath all the bluster, the goons behind this bliss understood that time was not on their side. That's because every presidency is overtaken by events. It's because the lack of popular support for any of this shit, the total lack of a mandate, means rising opposition anywhere outside of Trump's control. And it's because you can put a hat that says 2028 on a lame duck, but that bitch still can't swim. And that's what's happened. Leaks and resignations and temporary restraining orders and lawsuits. Endless coverage of Trump's escapades to rename bodies of water, murder people in boats, build fancy ballrooms. All while failing to address the rising cost of living and economic uncertainty that made his reelection possible. A new AP poll released just today finds Trump's economic approval has dipped to 31%, the lowest rating he's received on the economy across either his first or second term. But just wait till Rush Hour four comes out. Gonna see a big Rush Hour four bump. And it is a virtuous circle. Trump's rising unpopularity weakens him while inspiring defiance all around him, which only weakens him further. We've seen that in Congress on the Epstein files and on a bipartisan discharge position to extend Obamacare subsidies, and in the collapse of several of his political prosecutions. And in Indiana, we're under withering pressure from Trump and his allies. Republicans that state just voted down a plan to gerrymander their congressional maps. And so yes, in the absence of genuine oversight from Republicans in Congress and given appliance Supreme Court, Trump can abuse the pardon power, help his sons make billions, decimate the government, bully corporations, turn the antitrust process into a beauty contest, including a swimsuit competition between David Ellison and Ted Sarandos. He is doing a lot of damage. He's threatening to do a lot more. But democracy is stronger than it looks. Would be authoritarians are weaker than they look. And jelly donuts always look better than they taste. Something for all of us to remember. As Hanukkah rolls around, democracy contemplates error and weakness. It is a distributed and redundant system without a single point of failure. So Trump can hack at it and hack at it and hack at it. Install a flunky prosecutor here, a vaccine denier there, grab some stock and intel here, threaten a late night host there, and it will weaken the system and corrupt its components. But a lot of those circuits still find a way. Which is another way of saying democracy is still causing Trump to short circuit every single day. That may not always be true, but right now it is. We can't predict what next year will bring other than a star studded premiere at Rush Hour 4, but we know what we have to do. We gotta organize, protest, win the midterms and try to be the right amount of nice to Marjorie Taylor Greene because she is our next president. All right, coming up next, Kennedy. Ready my trench coat and boom boom Fox. Cameron Crowe is here. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. Love it or Leave It Brought to you by Helix how are you preparing for the colder season? Are you spending more time indoors? I bet you are. Well, you should stay comfortable with your Helix mattress. It's the perfect time to invest in a new mattress. Sleep is even more important during sick season, peak cold and flu time. The other day I had a few hours in the afternoon on a Sunday and I had dinner plans and I was alone in the home and I said, you know what I'm do? I'm going to lie in this bed. I'm going to watch YouTubes. That's a nice so comfortable on my Helix mattress I watched a bunch of YouTubes, I watched a cooking video, I watched a science video. I watched something about jet engines. That's what the algorithm wants. Then some Nazi stuff. All of a sudden the algorithm turned me like I think you might want some Nazi stuff. 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Max $100 cash back per month. See Terms of Venmo Me Stashterms. And we're back. My first guest, a legendary writer and director known for his incredible needle drops. Don't worry. We found the perfect one for his. Walk on. Please welcome to the stage, the amazing Cameron Crowe. Good to see you. Thank you for being here.

[Cameron Crowe]

You're on fire.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I'm on fire. How are you? So nice to meet you. I'm so excited to talk to you. I've been really enjoying the book. Uncool. The Uncool.

[Cameron Crowe]

The Uncool.

[John Lovett]

The Uncool. Sue, are you the Uncool?

[Cameron Crowe]

Yes, of course.

[John Lovett]

That comes across in the text. So there's such a warmth radiating off of you. I felt it the second I was backstage. Cause I'll tell you something, when I was reading the book, and I felt the same way when I watched Almost Famous, which is, I get to the end of this book, and you are extremely reticent to explain why any of these fucking people talk to you. You won't do it. And I was. There's one point where you kind of hint at, with David Bowie, why David Bowie would have bothered talking to. But it really is very passive that you would just listen. Which is, I think, something a good interviewer does. Not my practice, but different skills, different styles. But I just want to understand, like, all these people didn't accidentally talk to you. What is it?

[Cameron Crowe]

Part of it was listening, because I was terrified the first time I did an interview with somebody who's kind of like, of great status. I was terrified because he was Kris Kristofferson, and he heard my question, which is about being lonely on the road, and he just stopped. And I thought, oh, no, I have to fill the silence, or he hates the question. I'm gonna get thrown out. But he started to talk, and I realized by the end of the conversation that I made him really happy by not talking. So that made it a great conversation for him. So it kind of rolled into the way I like to do interviews, which is to listen and be interested. You know, like you. Like, you're fascinated with what somebody's gonna say, and that makes them wanna talk.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I don't think that's it. So I'm glad you brought up Kris Kristofferson, because Kris Kristofferson was on my mind, because I had either never known or forgotten that he was a Rhodes Scholar, that Kris Kristofferson was a Rhodes. Cause I think of it as this sort of this gruff, kind of plain spoken, terse guy. Salty, salty. And I certainly would not have put him in my mind as some, like, intellectual smart guy, but I just wouldn't have sorted him into Rhodes Scholar.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And, you know, you were. How old were you when you talked to Kris Kristofferson? 15. 15.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah. And he started referencing books and Kurt Vonnegut and. Yeah, the last Picture show film that was, you know, in great regard then. And he just included me in such a way that it made me feel like a peer.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, because he saw something in you, an intelligence in you.

[Cameron Crowe]

I think he promised his fiance, Rita Coolidge, that he was going to do an interview with the kid with an orange bag. And so he was, like, gonna make good on that.

[John Lovett]

But you're pushing. See, this is what you do throughout the whole fucking book, which is like, oh, shucks. People keep telling me the craziest shit they've ever said to any reporter ever. Over and over and over and over like at least a dozen times in the book. These, like, people that never talk to anybody, they talk to you. And I feel like I can't tell. I can't tell if you, If. If you don't. Why? There's something special about you. You're a special, talented person. You've had wild success in every single thing you've ever done. That's not an accident. So what? Why?

[Cameron Crowe]

I don't think. I don't think I come across as somebody who's there to judge. I just kind of want to be on receive and let people sit next to me with whatever article or whatever I'm doing, you know, and this is what it felt like. This is what it felt like to be with Led Zeppelin. This is what it felt like to spend 18 months with David Bowie. Like, I genuinely had an agenda no further than including people like me into the fan experience. Because I love the fan experience. And sometimes, sometimes, you know, I got. Got criticized for it among, you know, staff members at Rolling Stone and stuff like that. It's like, ah, you just write about the people you like. Well, why not? You know?

[John Lovett]

Right, right.

[Cameron Crowe]

Why not?

[John Lovett]

There is this tension where I can't. I think it was the Led Zeppelin, the head of Rolling Stone winner. Yeah. It's published. It's a huge hit. And then he kind of undercuts you about it, right? He's like, yeah, right.

[Cameron Crowe]

I thought. I thought I was going to get called into to see, like, the editor and publisher of Rolling Stone and thanked for getting Led Zeppelin who Hate hated Rolling Stone to be on the COVID and, like, participate in this huge article. But really, he was calling me in to say there's a little bit of. This is an almost famous. He was calling me in to say, like, did you write about what you wanted to write about, or did you write about what they wanted you to write about? And I was sitting there like, there's no thank you coming. He was really. He was really saying, like, you know, are you going to grow up? Are you going to write something that's, like, truly going to last? Well, you got to dig a little deeper for that. And he was having a terrible day because his mentor had died that day, so he had no reason, really, to sit down and talk to me, except to try and say, you know, there's a path you can take. You can be a fan, fan, fan, or you can be a fan who writes about something that's coming from a deeper place, which I've tried to do ever since.

[John Lovett]

Is that. So you're working on a Joni Mitchell movie right now? And I was actually. Which people are excited about?

[Cameron Crowe]

I'm excited about it.

[John Lovett]

And what I was thinking about is, like, what makes for a great biopic is a great biopic one from the fan perspective or is a great biopic one from the winner perspective?

[Cameron Crowe]

I think you can do both. I think you can do both. And the way you do it is to never forget that there are going to be people who love Joni Mitchell, for example, and want to get that feeling that you get from loving Joni or loving her work, you know? So, like, don't leave the fans behind for a take that's gonna not make sense to you as a longtime fan. But also bring in people that don't know who she is and don't whitewash the story. And she's like, the queen of not whitewashing. So this is a good subject to expand the biopic genre with.

[John Lovett]

I'm excited about that. Yeah. No, I was thinking about Joni Mitchell and you talking about how you want it to feel like a Joni Mitchell song or a Joni Mitchell album. And I was thinking about both sides now as, like, as close to a biopic in a song, you know, just as a structure, like this sort of idea of, like, the ways you can look back on your life. And I was very excited about what you were gonna do with it. Cool.

[Cameron Crowe]

Well, she wrote that song when she was 22, wild. And her husband at the time heard it and said, that's false. That. How do you know what your life is going to be like if you're 22. You can't talk about love, you can't talk about life. And what happened, I think was at 22, she wrote about a life in such a way, in such a robust way that now at 80, she steps in to singing that song and it has all the resonance that you could have dreamed of as a 22 year old. She's an amazing story and you don't really have to stay in the biopic genre to tell it. What biopics have you liked?

[John Lovett]

I was thinking about that and.

[Cameron Crowe]

It'S.

[John Lovett]

The ones that you don't think of as biopics often.

[Cameron Crowe]

So true.

[John Lovett]

You don't think of Goodfellas as a biopic.

[Cameron Crowe]

No, but I will now.

[John Lovett]

But, you know, but it's based on. Ostensibly based on a true story. To me, it's the movies that the story matters, even if the person didn't matter because you're in. You're in on what the story. Like blackkklansman was like that to me.

[Cameron Crowe]

Loved blackkklansman.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. And then.

[Cameron Crowe]

Great, great.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I just. I think the ones that are reverent too. A little too reverent of their subjects, yeah, they sometimes you have. They make an impression. You will walk out of the theater and they will be moving and touching, but they have this strange way of disappearing. They matter a great deal when Oscars are being doled out. And then you never fucking talk about them again. Like, you know, like they're. Except like Malcolm X is an exception, but there are others that like just come and go. Like, I don't know, like people. People hidden hidden play on Lincoln. People hidden play on, you know, Ali or, you know, there are movies that had this moment, but then they. They're gone.

[Cameron Crowe]

It's true. You know, I think a lot of biopics just ignore the fact that, like, there's humor in life. People did tell jokes in the 60s and 70s. There was funny stuff that happened. And a friend of mine also said, like, I like to see a movie where the subject in that genre where the person has fun. Like they're not just like aching with a furrowed brow, like, where. Where is this song going to come from? Oh my God, it's coming to me. It's like, just have fucking fun. Like the Beatles.

[John Lovett]

I am so glad you said that. And I want to tell you something. I was. I wanted. This was on my mind. And I wasn't sure where I was going to tell you this, which is I'm going to make A I have a question request. My least favorite thing in any biopic about any artist is it's like fucking Ringo's walking down the street and he sees a yellow car and a submarine. He goes, I've got it. You know what I mean? You know, like, it's just like, in a sense, it's like a day in our lives and then they fucking write it down. It makes me want to die every time. Yeah, yeah, don't do that. You're not gonna do that, right?

[Cameron Crowe]

No, no, no, no. We're not gonna do that. Nor are we gonna have the. The record executive scene where it's like, that song is eight minutes. It'll never be a hit. We can never put it out at eight minutes. Plus, it's operatic. No, Queen, you can't put that song out. Cut to people around the world.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Cameron Crowe]

Loving that song.

[John Lovett]

Yes. Now I'm so in. I knew. I knew Cameron Crowe got it. All right. It's so interesting sitting across from you because I was really like, what? Why is fucking the Allman Brothers talking to you so much? You know, some pipsqueak kid from San Diego, like, who gives a shit about you? But there's something very warm about you. It's interesting.

[Cameron Crowe]

Thanks.

[John Lovett]

What are these? That's a. You're, like, almost, like, afraid to talk about it in the book. It's something like you don't want to write about yourself.

[Cameron Crowe]

Well, I didn't want to be the person that's so important to themselves that they are the hero of every scene and everything. I just wanted to be about the people that I got to meet who were good to me, who opened doors and, you know, said, come. Come and stand here and watch the Allman Brothers do whipping post. Like, stand on stage, six feet away from Greg. Come on, come on. Stand there. You're going to get off. Like, the roadies would help me out and stuff, because I loved the music and particularly, like, coming up at that time, there weren't a lot of outlets to write about music at any length, really. And when there was, it was kind of like somebody that was interrogating the musician. Like, why are you so important? Why do I have to write about you? And I'm like, deep Purple. I want to know everything about you, you know? And they'd be so happy to talk to a real fan. But I definitely asked hard questions, and when it's a real conversation, you'll get your hard questions answered in a great way.

[John Lovett]

Do you think when you gave. I didn't realize that the story In Almost Famous about the tapes was based on what really happened, which is they. You get called up to the hotel room of Greg Allman and he demands the tapes back. And I'm. I'm reading. It's like. It's like. It's like. Like a. A horror movie where. Where the. The like, don't run up the stairs, run out the front door. And it's.

[Cameron Crowe]

It's like scared the shit out of me. I mean, we had done an amazing interview three hours earlier, and then the phone rings, and it's like, get up here right now. Bring the tapes and bring id.

[John Lovett]

But why did you do it? Is it because.

[Cameron Crowe]

Why did I go up there?

[John Lovett]

Because you're a kid. Like. Like you're a journalist. Like, he has no right to those tapes. Those belong to you. You had ever. You did everything. You're nothing unethical about what you were doing. You had no business demanding the tapes. Why. Why bring the tapes at all? Why give them. What was going through your head?

[Cameron Crowe]

Well, I felt at the time. It's weird. I did the audio version of the book and got really emotional. It came out of nowhere.

[John Lovett]

You did.

[Cameron Crowe]

And all of a sudden I realized this wound was kind of in me. I. I thought he was gonna have me beaten up. He had a bodyguard. A bodyguard that ended up coming up and signing a contract that the tapes would now belong to Greg. It was really kind of gothic in a way.

[John Lovett]

So you felt threatened?

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah, I did get threatened. And, you know, and he woke up a couple days later and was like, why do I have these tapes in my room?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, but he knew. He felt guilty.

[Cameron Crowe]

He knew.

[John Lovett]

He knew he was guilty. He did something terrible. He threatened a kid, a literal child, and stole the tapes. Made you sign something fake and took the tapes from you, which was a. Basically a crime. And also something that was like, I think, journalistically very interesting.

[Cameron Crowe]

It's true. And also his brother and another member of the band had died. In the previous couple of years, he had done no interviews. The. The person from Rolling Stone before me did drugs with the band. Didn't write about him doing the drugs. Wrote about them doing drugs and made fun of their accents and all that stuff. So I was the enemy, you know, in my own way. But what's strange is, you know, the people we talk about, biopics and stuff, like, there's another. There's another area which is like rock autobiographies that are never truthful, right? Because they're kind of. It's like really serious. Things get turned into like tour bus anecdotes. And he did it himself, you know, in his autobiography, and he. He claimed that he played a little prank and, you know, gave me the tapes back immediately and stuff. It's like, no, it didn't go that way.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Cameron Crowe]

But, you know, it's like, it's living life at a young age, and it's trying to find your voice in the world, which is kind of what the point of the book was. I wanted to write about that total. That time when you imprint so heavily, music, people, experiences, and that becomes you finding where you're going to sit in the world and how you're going to go forward. What. What's your voice going to be? And that's kind of why I didn't say me, me, me in the book. I kind of wanted to take the ride, let you take the ride with me. And. And it kind of ends at a point with a scene about my dad that I'm really proud of, which is when my dad realizes I'm not going to become a lawyer like his grandfather.

[John Lovett]

The youngest. You wanted to be the youngest lawyer?

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah. I mean, this was. This was the path that was set out for me. But he. We talked about the Allman Brothers. My dad had stayed up all night on New Year's Eve to tape an Allman Brothers concert for me, and I came home from going to a party. And that was his kind of gift to me, to say, I understand that you're going to take the path that you're going to take. And he also had tried to run answering services, you know, which were then being replaced by automatic answering machines. So what he always said is, like, you know, nothing will ever beat the sound of the human voice. Which he really believed. And that's the end of the book. Because in this. In this love story to music, I wanted to end by saying the humanity, the human voice, which my dad kind of used as a motto, is always true. And when you hear that voice in a song, even like, in a way that the song speaks to you in such a personal way, that's the stuff you never forget that tattoos your life.

[John Lovett]

So there's a moment in the book where you were with Don Henley and I didn't. It was, you know, you hear these songs, and they are, to me, just sort of, from growing up, the kind of background rock, classic rock songs. And then you read about the effort and time and precision and focus and dedication to writing, just writing over and over and over and over again. And maybe this is a strange place to take It. But what I thought when I saw that is, I bet you hate the Internet, the way it kind of cheapens and kind of. We're surrounded by so much writing with so much less care. And I wonder if you feel that.

[Cameron Crowe]

I don't hate the Internet, but I really know what you're talking about, which is like, fact checkers don't exist anymore. People can just, like, spew stuff out. And the thoughtful stuff always lands best. But song wise, I do. I love that you brought up Don Henley, the other person. The other person that you have to love for knowing how conversation. Well, Tom Petty. Tom Petty would spend so much time on these songs so that they would sound simple and easy, like a conversation with a friend. And that's the stuff that I love most of all. It's like, familiar and soulful, but not just thrown out, really worked on enough to make it sound simple, but it's not.

[John Lovett]

So you move, in part because of Tom Petty, into filmmaking.

[Tig Notaro]

And.

[John Lovett]

Now we're in this moment where you have to be nostalgic just for going to the theater. There's this big question now. Netflix potentially gonna buy Time Warner. Ted Sarando said something recently about the movie theater, in many ways calling it an outdated concept. Like, do you worry about that, the end of the movie theaters and, like, what it means to. For people to not have that experience?

[Cameron Crowe]

I do. I do. A good movie can. Can break through on any format, I think. But yeah, I mean, going and sitting in a. In a theater and having the experience of. Of a big movie star being somebody you can relate to and can tell a story, that kind of moves you in some way. That's the Tom Cruise version of moviemaking. Like, he's never gonna go on a smaller screen because he likes telling those big stories. So I just think there's a place for. For all of it. But I never want to lose the big story. And PTA's movie is definitely a big story.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Cameron Crowe]

And you get. You get so exhilarated that you just want to go back to the theater. So I just want them to stick around.

[John Lovett]

Now, before we go, I did want to grill you about something, which is Nate.

[Cameron Crowe]

I hope it's what I.

[John Lovett]

It's the 2011 Matt Damon dramedy, We Bought a Zoo.

[Cameron Crowe]

Good. Let's talk. Let's talk about it, John, because I'm ready to face this one.

[John Lovett]

You recently said in an interview. Yeah. The title doesn't really describe what the movie's about. Seems like you lied to that man's face because it certainly is about this. This movie is in a pantheon of movies that are considered to be better than their titles.

[Cameron Crowe]

I'm honored to be movies that include.

[John Lovett]

The Shawshank Redemption, 2014's the Edge of Tomorrow, and then there are movies that were just bad and had bad titles, like 2010's Legends of the. The Owls of Ga'. Hool. Too much title. Too much title. All right, so wait. So We Bought a Zoo. What happened with that title?

[Cameron Crowe]

It was the name of Benjamin Mee's book.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Cameron Crowe]

So nobody ever really stopped to say, should we really call this movie We Bought a Zoo? Nobody.

[John Lovett]

There's no. There was. Oh, I would have.

[Cameron Crowe]

No. Well, we needed you there, brother. We needed you there. I just think I love the movie. I love the movie. I think I just really love the movie.

[John Lovett]

It did really well, too.

[Cameron Crowe]

It did well. Elle Fanning is great in it, and she's just kind of starting out. Matt's incredible. Scarlett Johansson. I just think We Bought a Zoo said, don't see this movie right now.

[John Lovett]

Why is that? Why? It's interesting, though, actually, because it's not, on its face, obvious. You could totally. I understand how nobody would occur to them that it would gain this sort of, like, silliness to it when. But it is now. What is it?

[Cameron Crowe]

Well, the first posters that they came up with just were pictures of animals, which really was going to be a problem. I think Matt Damon saw one of those posters and said, I really didn't have to be in this movie, did I? But a stork is on the poster.

[John Lovett]

I think.

[Cameron Crowe]

I think it was felt to be heartwarming and wasn't. The movie is.

[John Lovett]

The movie is.

[Cameron Crowe]

I really. It's just funny. Making a movie is a zillion decisions, and one key one can go wrong and tip the whole ship over. So you just have to kind of be loose and think about these things and try and make the right decision at the right moment. But sometimes one little. One little piece is off and. And we're talking about it now, 14 years later.

[John Lovett]

So it's time for a segment we call Zoo Fast Zoo Furious.

[Cameron Crowe]

And.

[John Lovett]

I'm going to give you new title options.

[Cameron Crowe]

I like that.

[John Lovett]

You will rate them on a scale from one to five zoos. At the end, you must pick the official new title for We Bought a Zoo by declaring out loud, I'm buying that zoo. All right, first title. Wait, where the Fuck did this Zoo come From?

[Cameron Crowe]

I like it. I'm not going to buy that zoo. But I'm going to appreciate that.

[John Lovett]

Next up, we have stuck on Zoo.

[Cameron Crowe]

That's an eight at least.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I know what zoo did last summer. This has to happen in the summer.

[Cameron Crowe]

Now, this is based on a true story. Keep in mind.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, based on a true story. Next up, we have Wildlife. This we thought was a real. Now we. Here's our thinking. You couldn't call it wildlife because you'd already made a movie called the Wildlife.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yes. Written. Written by me. I was so. You could have done that. I was cornered. I can't buy that Zoo.

[John Lovett]

You can't. But. But Wildlife would have been a good name for the movie.

[Cameron Crowe]

It really would have been.

[John Lovett]

Damn, what a shame.

[Cameron Crowe]

But we can do better. I'm not sure I feel it's coming.

[John Lovett]

All right, let's see. Next up. Oh, he's just not that into zoo.

[Cameron Crowe]

That's good.

[John Lovett]

10 Things I Hate about zoo in captivity. That was like a real pitch in captivity. Next up, we got Keeper. Like zookeeper. Keeper.

[Cameron Crowe]

Just keeper.

[John Lovett]

Keeper. Like the zoo's a keeper. He's a keeper.

[Cameron Crowe]

Ooh, the one word. Keeper. Keeper. Always good. You know, in France, it's called Nouveau Depart, which. What is that? That's a new direction.

[John Lovett]

That's very French. To give you a kind of generic, kind of serious title.

[Cameron Crowe]

That's right.

[John Lovett]

And then the last one was that thing you Zoo. So which zoo are you going to buy? I think Keeper.

[Cameron Crowe]

Keeper. I'm going to buy Keeper.

[John Lovett]

Okay. Well, Keeper Cameron Crowe, thank you so much for talking. The book is the Uncool. I really do. Really is a great read.

[Cameron Crowe]

Thanks. Thanks, you guys.

[John Lovett]

And when we come back, take Notaro.

[Cameron Crowe]

Here's to Zhu.

[John Lovett]

Hey, don't go anywhere.

[Cameron Crowe]

There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it brought to you by Oneskin. What does your skincare routine look like? I've got a good routine these days. You know, I'd use a cleanser, and then I use some kind of a serum, like an OS1 peptide thing. And then I use a moisturizer and an eye cream. You know, I'm getting up there. You gotta do something for the eyes. Everybody should have a great skincare routine. And you should make one skin part of it. At the core is their patented OS1 peptide, the first ingredient proven to target senescent cells. The root cause of wrinkles, creepiness and a loss of elasticity. All signs of aging. And these results have now been validated in five different clinical studies. Certified safe for sensitive skin. One Skin products are free from over 1500 harsh and irritating ingredients. Their dermatologists tested and have been awarded the National Eczema association seal of acceptance. That's right, Tommy. They won the Itchy. The annual itchies. Yeah, It's a fun event. It's a fun event. And all of Oneskin's products are designed to layer seamlessly and replace multiple steps in your routine. Oneskin also just launched the limited edition holiday sets, including a nightly rewind gift set, which is one of those rare gifts that's impressive and genuinely useful, providing an upgrade to anyone's nightly routine. Featuring their bestselling face moisturizer, their new peptide lip mask. I use that. I think it's great. And a cooling gua sha. That's a tool. Tommy, do you know what a gua sha is? No, what is it? It's this thing you put on your face. You kind of like rub it along your face to kind of squeeze out the juices. And the idea is it makes your face look thinner, but it's sort of a soothing thing. It's not bad. It's like a roller. No, it's kind of like a roller. It's more just of a piece of jade. Usually just kind of kind of go along your face a few different times in a pattern. Sort of like a J Dag. Yeah, but just for the face. For the face. Giddy up. It's all designed to work together as your body enters its natural nightly repair mode. That's the nightly rewind gift set, helping renew skin at the cellular level. For stronger, smoother and more resilient skin. For a limited time, try one skin for 15% off using code. Love it at OneSkin co. Love it. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about having four kids that you know about.

[Cameron Crowe]

Is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north.

[John Lovett]

And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes.

[Cameron Crowe]

If network's busy, taxes and fees extra.

[John Lovett]

See mintmobile.com and we're back here to discuss every single thing that's happened since the last year. It's the timeless tig.

[Cameron Crowe]

Hello again.

[John Lovett]

Hi. Good to see you. Thanks for being here.

[Tig Notaro]

Why, thank you. Cameron Crowe.

[John Lovett]

Cameron Crowe's here.

[Tig Notaro]

I know. I saw him backstage. I love Cameron Crowe.

[John Lovett]

I bet you really like singing I love Tig singles.

[Tig Notaro]

You bet I do. Yeah, I do. But it doesn't just end there.

[John Lovett]

Say more. Say more.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, really, if you'd like. I mean, sure. I mean, Fast Times.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Come on. Almost Famous. I mean, of course I'm alive, right? I love rock and roll. It's the first thing I said to him. I love rock and roll, too, sir, but listen, I was listening to you talk about the cliches and the things that in films that drive you crazy and that are funny. My wife has a very, very good one that I love so deeply, and I hope you have it in one of your films. And I've forgotten, but when somebody from, like, a label is listening, and then they're, like, on a payphone, they're like, man, you gotta hear them.

[Cameron Crowe]

That's good.

[Tig Notaro]

It's so good. It's so good.

[Cameron Crowe]

It's good.

[John Lovett]

So good.

[Tig Notaro]

We watched La Bamba the other night, and I enjoy that film. Have you seen that film? Okay. I thought for sure I was telling our kids. I was like, I think there's one of those moments that Mommy talks about, and there wasn't. Anyway, how are you?

[John Lovett]

I like La Bamba. You should make yours like La Bamba.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Tig, you do not keep up with pop culture famously.

[Tig Notaro]

No, but what I do keep up with is music and documentaries.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Those are my two huge passions. And then I fall very short.

[John Lovett]

Is there any pop culture moment that jumped out at you in 2025 that did kind of somehow cross into your. Into your kind of area of vision? Which is one way to say, did you see anything?

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, I saw things. Good question.

[John Lovett]

But, like, is there anything that you normally like. Are you aware of what's happening? Do you know who Jen Shaw is?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Tig Notaro]

Who is Jen Shaw?

[John Lovett]

She's a real housewife that got out of prison.

[Tig Notaro]

I would never in a million years know.

[John Lovett]

But you know that she was in jail with Elizabeth Holmes from Theranos.

[Tig Notaro]

I did not know that, but I'm familiar with Elizabeth Holmes and I've seen that documentary. That's my strength. I had this idea, but the Shaw lady is not.

[John Lovett]

I have this picture of kind of like, you opening up a newspaper. But before you did, like, Stephanie Cuts out the Pop Culture, so you don't see it, you know, like that Jefferson Bible where it doesn't say God anywhere.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, do you know I used to have a talk show called Under a Rock with Technotagra.

[John Lovett]

Yes. And they'd bring out people that were supremely famous, and they would be strangers.

[Tig Notaro]

To you, but what they would do. My producers would show me, like, pages of headshots, and they'd be like, tell us who you know on here. And then I'd be like, I don't know. And they'd be like, wait, you don't know this person? I'd be like, no. And then they'd get different angles of that person. They'd be like, oh, my God, she doesn't know who this person is. And then they go out to their agents and be like, does your client want to come on this show and let Tig interview them to try and figure out who they are?

[John Lovett]

Everybody should go watch it. It's awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

And it might be coming back.

[John Lovett]

But anyway, that's exciting.

[Tig Notaro]

I spoke too soon. I spoke too soon.

[John Lovett]

It's funny, because I was thinking about you, which is like, you have handsome, which is your podcast, your you're in Star Trek Academy.

[Tig Notaro]

Crowd goes mild, huh?

[John Lovett]

The people that know it.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you.

[Cameron Crowe]

You're.

[John Lovett]

You're in Star Trek Academy.

[Tig Notaro]

Star Trek. Starfleet Academy.

[John Lovett]

Starfleet Academy. Sorry.

[Tig Notaro]

It airs on January 15, starring Holly Hunter. Paul Giamatti. You know those people?

[John Lovett]

We're getting them on the uniforms, and.

[Tig Notaro]

I know who they are.

[John Lovett]

Paul Giamatti's in Singles.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Paul Giamatti's in one scene in Singles where he just sort of goes to town on some girl's face.

[Cameron Crowe]

He has one line.

[John Lovett]

What? But he crushes it.

[Tig Notaro]

He has one word.

[Cameron Crowe]

That's right.

[John Lovett]

One word.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Let's not overdo it.

[Cameron Crowe]

His text is one word, but what he brings.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. He sits in it. He sits in it.

[Cameron Crowe]

He sits in it.

[John Lovett]

Word becomes a whole universe. You also have the documentary Come See Me in the Good Light.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. Yes. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. Recommend that you see it. It's so beautiful.

[John Lovett]

It's so beautiful.

[Tig Notaro]

It's so beautiful.

[John Lovett]

And you teased a project you're working on, a movie with Zack Snyder that will contain, and I'm quoting here, hot lesbian action.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, I. Yes. Can I just answer? Yes. Yes. No. Yeah. I did a movie with Zach, and I replaced somebody that was a sexual. He did some sexual. He got in trouble.

[John Lovett]

Got in trouble.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And he got erased from the movie. And then Zach called me to come shoot an entire action film on a green screen. Do you. Don't know this part?

[John Lovett]

No.

[Tig Notaro]

Do you not follow pop culture?

[John Lovett]

I'll be honest. What I'm realizing now is sometimes you really gotta click on the links. Cameron Crow. There's stuff beneath the links that's of interest.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I did a whole action film on a green screen zombie film. I was flying the helicopter, getaway helicopter. And I kept joking with Zach because it was a huge international cast and all the people were really beautiful from all around the world. And I was like, I'll probably just be like a lesbian wandering in the background, you know, Which I was fine with. I'm not above that. And so I kept saying to Zach, I was like, oh, my gosh. In my mind, because I'm the only one filming with you. I am the star of this movie. And I was like, but I bet when it comes out, I'll just be this scrappy little lesbian wandering around. And then I accidentally went viral for being sexy in that movie. Hear me out. So even out of all of these hot people from other countries and what have you, people were talking about me. Okay.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And then I got on a zoom. I said, I got a pitch for you, sir. And he was like, what? And I go, if people thought I was hot in that movie, why don't we just make a whole action film full of lesbians? I was like, straight men are gonna see that. Gay women are gonna want. Everybody's gonna wanna see hot lesbians. And I said, and the poster will say, hot lesbian action. And he was like, holy shit, let's do it.

[John Lovett]

Wow, that's so cool.

[Tig Notaro]

Is this show supposed to have, like, big laughs and then long silences? I just wanna make sure.

[Cameron Crowe]

By design.

[Tig Notaro]

I just wanna make sure the vibe's right.

[John Lovett]

What's the. Have you heard? What is it? The Japanese art of Ma. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Nah.

[Tig Notaro]

Do you follow me?

[John Lovett]

You don't know what I'm saying. Anybody know any Miyazaki fans out there? What's that period of quiet called? This is it. We're in it.

[Tig Notaro]

Do you know what? I really appreciated when you said that. Does anyone know what that is? I saw a few people in the audience go, Yes. Yes, I do, John. It's funny you should ask. I do.

[John Lovett]

And you and Cameron also share something in common, which is you also started out in music.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Would you let Cameron interview and then demand the tapes back?

[Tig Notaro]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Tig Notaro]

John, you love our dynamic, don't you?

[John Lovett]

I love.

[Tig Notaro]

I love it so much.

[John Lovett]

You cherish it.

[Tig Notaro]

I cherish it. I love it.

[John Lovett]

We Have a great time.

[Tig Notaro]

I know it.

[Cameron Crowe]

I cherish it from my front row seats.

[John Lovett]

I just want you to know you're.

[Tig Notaro]

Part of it, though.

[John Lovett]

I am part of it.

[Tig Notaro]

You are part of it.

[John Lovett]

Hey, you know what? I was thinking about Cameron Crowe, and I'm sorry to keep saying your name.

[Tig Notaro]

Tell me, Jungle, tell me, is it Cameron Marie Crowe? Is that right?

[Cameron Crowe]

You know when you wrote that.

[John Lovett]

Remember when you wrote that autobiographical piece about your exploits with girls and your kind of pathetic, kind of grasping at sexuality in a way that was humiliating to you, and then you wrote it all up and you sent it to Rolling Stone and then they printed it?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, that was the longest sentence, by the way.

[John Lovett]

Did you really think they weren't going to print it? Did you really think it wasn't good when you sent it or did on some level, you know you'd written something great?

[Cameron Crowe]

On no level did I think I'd written something.

[John Lovett]

You really thought you were just fulfilling your deadline and they weren't going to run it?

[Cameron Crowe]

No, they were. They were like, we're going to let you write about something that's not music. You're going to stretch a little bit. You're going to write about. And I'm already in. I'm like, yeah, sounds great. How you learned about sex. I'm like, you got it. Got it, man.

[John Lovett]

And how old are you?

[Cameron Crowe]

17.

[John Lovett]

God damn.

[Cameron Crowe]

Then it's like. Then it's like you have to write it after you hang up, like, being super cool about taking the assignment. And it was terrible. It was terrible. And I just felt nothing but embarrassment and humiliation about, like, the terrible time that I was still trying to learn about sexual.

[Tig Notaro]

And had you had sex or. Maybe that's too personal.

[John Lovett]

I don't think so.

[Cameron Crowe]

I had. I had. But it was a. It was a twisted journey to that. That, yes, for sure. And. And I sent it in and I just, you know, I went through all the excuses in my head, you know, I'm too sick to write it. It got lost in the mail. I just wrote something that was kind of like, you know, like just throwing it out onto the page. And I sent it in and they. The guy was laughing when he. When I picked up the phone. Now this is writing. This is writing. The more embarrassing, the better. Don't you see? And I don't know, I kind of learned that lesson. That's like, embarrassing is cathartic and ultimately funny.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Cameron Crowe]

Don't you find that to be true?

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

Do it every week.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I keep the lights on.

[John Lovett]

Well, the Reason I wanted to bring that up is only because I was thinking about what it would feel like. Like, that must have felt embarrassing at the time. I can't. I don't know if it still does, but I imagine it certainly. Like, do you. Are you able to look back on that person with kind of generosity as whether it's you or not you. As not someone you share in the embarrassment of?

[Cameron Crowe]

I enjoy the embarrassment of it from a distance, for sure. What still makes me queasy is the caricature that they came up with that went along with the article, which was me nude, kind of trotting with a little shadow across this section. And it was like, oh, look at the funny, embarrassed. Boy, you still feel the story. Yeah, it's embarrassing the character, but we have the picture.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Cameron Crowe]

Okay, good. Let's. Let's have a look at. No, the embarrassing stuff. Well, it was also true of Fast Times, like, when we first started watching, you know, when they screen Fast Times for audiences, it was the most embarrassing stuff, was what people loved and brought the house down. Like Judge Reinhold getting caught in the bathroom pleasuring himself. Embarrassingly caught doing it was like, the greatest thing these audiences had ever seen. And it was like, oh, wow. Well, it's kind of. Humiliation is funny.

[John Lovett]

Tig. Do you find that, though, like, that telling the, like, using the things that embarrass you on stage? Take. Does it, like, especially from, like, earlier in your life? Does it, like, remove it with. Does it get rid of its power?

[Tig Notaro]

Well, yeah. I mean, I used the world as my toilet growing up. I wet my pants. Like, nothing could stop me. Like, just out in the world or going to bed at night. Like, I was just wetting up a storm. And I never would have imagined that I would be completely fine talking about any of that kind of stuff or. Yeah, all of that, I think. Not that. That was my biggest laugh I've ever gotten tonight. Now I feel shame.

[John Lovett]

That was sort of a. That was a Japanese moment of quiet.

[Cameron Crowe]

The Miyazaki moment.

[John Lovett]

It's a Miyazaki moment. It's a Miyazaki moment.

[Tig Notaro]

But, yeah, it's. I find it. I don't know. I think after I've been doing standup almost 30 years, and I think that you reach a certain point where it's, like, kind of anything goes until you, like, get married and have a family. And then not everything goes because then there's other people involved in it. But for the most part, yeah, I would say so.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I just thinking about this, the getting older and One of the nice things about getting older is being able to see your younger self with more generosity, which is, I think one of the nice things about your body slowly decaying right in front of you.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, that starts happening at 25. Your body, you start to die.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Should we go to commercial or.

[John Lovett]

Let's just go to the next segment. We'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave It.

[Cameron Crowe]

Coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network busy.

[Cameron Crowe]

Taxes and fees extra.

[John Lovett]

See mint mobile.com.

[Tig Notaro]

And we're back.

[John Lovett]

And we're back. Some news before our final segment. Pod Save America is going down under. We are heading to Australia and Auckland, New Zealand for the Pod Save America hopefully just visiting tour of 2026. We will be in Auckland on February 11 and then three cities in Australia after that. Melbourne on February 13, Brisbane on February 14 and Sydney on February 16. With everything going on in America these days, we will feel the pull of the Commonwealth countries and decide whether or not to stay for good. You have to join us to find out. Tickets are on sale right now. For more information go to crooked.com events. You've gone to Australia and done stand up.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh yeah.

[John Lovett]

Any tips? Hmm, no. Also the newest book from Crooked Media Reads is called Hated by All the Right People. Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind. It is out on January 27th by one of our favorite political journalists, New York Times magazine writer Jason Zenger Lee. It's an incredible book. Tucker Carlson, his evolution from like a semi serious person to the kind of right wing authoritarian kind of MAGA guy or kind of MAGA adjacent guy he's become like tells the story of what happened in right wing politics and it's an incredible account. So everybody do me a favor, pick up the [e-mail] books. You pre order a copy, you'll get 15% off with the code. Jason, 15 crooked.com books. Okay. We're at the time of the year where people announce how much they've grown and changed and learned. We also are at the time of year where people make promises for how they'll change next year. Often the same promise they made from the previous year. Which is why it's time for a segment we're calling I Know what yout Didn't Do Last Winter. So here's how it works. We're going to spin the wheel, and wherever it lands, you have to share one New Year's resolution. And also one thing that maybe people would say you should change, but you're not changing it. You're not changing it. Let's spin it.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, I like that.

[John Lovett]

It has landed on Cameron. Cameron. What is one thing you'll change and one thing you refuse to change in 2026?

[Cameron Crowe]

One thing I refuse to change is my desire to keep everything. I'm a pack rat.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah. And that's, you know, that kind of clings to you. You have to deal with that.

[John Lovett]

Did you keep a lot of notes? Contemporaneous notes? You have notes. This book feels reported.

[Cameron Crowe]

It is because I kept everything, so.

[John Lovett]

And you're going to keep doing that.

[Cameron Crowe]

I guess I can't stop doing it.

[John Lovett]

Remember this?

[Tig Notaro]

I want you to stop.

[John Lovett]

I actually am fine with it. I think it's correct. Because here's the thing that's going to be such a great estate sale. And no, think about it. Keep it all. Don't get rid of it. Keep it all in one place. Because then it gets cataloged and then we get to really see it all after because you can't take it with you. You're not going to be buried in some giant sarcophagus with all of your objects. One would hope.

[Tig Notaro]

I didn't know you were dying. I'm like, I really enjoyed talking with you, meeting you. I have enjoyed doing this show. And this is hard to shake.

[Cameron Crowe]

Think nicely of this evening at the estate sale. Just remember these moments with. With. With the people, you know, pouring through trash.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

What's something, Cameron, that you will change?

[Cameron Crowe]

I've been writing for a couple years solid, and it's time to direct again. So it's time to do that. I've been. I've been missing it. And it's time to do it. And it'll be the Joni Mitchell movie.

[Tig Notaro]

I have a directing question for you. Did you go to school for directing?

[Cameron Crowe]

I did not.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay, I need to know. Nobody seems to have this answer. Why, when people are talking about shots, they do this.

[Cameron Crowe]

Why do that? That really bugs me. Tig.

[John Lovett]

Why do they do that?

[Cameron Crowe]

Yes. It's like, we're gonna come in through here, and you're like. With your fingers. What are you gonna do? You have, like, tongs.

[Tig Notaro]

You're gonna bring tongs every set?

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah, that's right.

[Tig Notaro]

Then we're gonna come in.

[John Lovett]

You're right. Do you ever, like, go like. Like this?

[Tig Notaro]

Of course he does.

[John Lovett]

Do you do that?

[Cameron Crowe]

Only for. Only for funny pictures that people. You know.

[John Lovett]

But it's never useful on set to be like, ah, what's this movie going to look like? I probably put up. What's it going to look like? My fingers?

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah. I don't. I don't. I never quite understood that one. But some people really love it. Yeah, some people.

[John Lovett]

Okay, let's spin it again.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, I had a feeling.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah, it's your time.

[John Lovett]

What's one thing you refuse to change? One thing you're going to change.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm not gonna stop working out.

[John Lovett]

Oh, great.

[Tig Notaro]

I started working out.

[John Lovett]

Oh, really?

[Tig Notaro]

And I'm very like, listen, I'm not, like, pumping iron or anything, but it feels so good. I'm sorry. I'm 54. This is a new thing where doctors are like, you gotta start doing this. And bone density and whatever. And I was like, I'm not gonna. And now I am. I love it. I love it.

[John Lovett]

That's great.

[Tig Notaro]

Doing it two or three times a week. No difference in the look. No difference in the look of my body. But I feel good.

[John Lovett]

I do think that's maybe like, the kind of unspoken curse of the perennial naturally skinny person, which is they're like, I never worked out. And then you. Then all of a sudden, a doctor's like, oh, it looks fine, but inside there's nothing left.

[Tig Notaro]

It's just my health record has already proven that inside, it was troublesome.

[Cameron Crowe]

Yeah, no. Yeah, for sure.

[John Lovett]

There have been red flags.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I'm stapled together.

[John Lovett]

But what are you doing to work out? You're doing, like. What are you doing? You're doing some squats over there?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I've squatted a few times.

[John Lovett]

That's cool.

[Tig Notaro]

Picked up some heavy things.

[John Lovett]

Oh, yeah, you gotta pick up heavy things.

[Tig Notaro]

Ye.

[John Lovett]

You gotta turn potential energy into kinetic energy. That's how you burn calories.

[Tig Notaro]

And I'm not gonna stop.

[John Lovett]

Don't stop. Yeah, don't stop. Nobody stopped Tig. Oh, that's a funny name for something. What's something you are gonna change?

[Tig Notaro]

I've already started changing. I'm saying no more often than I ever have.

[Cameron Crowe]

That's a good one.

[Tig Notaro]

And the other side of it, I Want people to tell me no. I love direct conversation where people are like, I don't have time for that or I'm not gonna be able to call you or, I'll never do that. Lose my number, kid. I'm like, all right, I want the same.

[Cameron Crowe]

And a quick note, right? Like, I want a quick note ruminating on it and then giving you the no. Not a good no.

[Tig Notaro]

If it's a real ruminating, I'm all in.

[Cameron Crowe]

Okay.

[Tig Notaro]

I just want to. I just want a real interaction. I can live through a no. You know what I'm saying, Cameron?

[Cameron Crowe]

I love it.

[Tig Notaro]

I love you, too. You know what? I actually also started and I'll stick this in. I heard you talking about emails. They drive me nuts. And so I told my reps and my assistant, don't email me until Thursday mornings every week unless it is really important. And then I'll deal with. I feel like Thursday and Friday, that's enough time for turnaround, for things that aren't pressing. So I'm just, like, relatively radio silent until Thursday and Friday, so that's a new thing.

[Cameron Crowe]

So do you dread the Thursday, or are you, like, energized?

[Tig Notaro]

Let's be honest, I'm only two weeks in, but I just started to feel like, oh, my God, all the back and forth and the like, Jesus, just Thursday morning, if it's not pressing, Thursday morning, we'll get to it. And I don't feel anything other than like, I wonder what wasn't pressing that I have to deal with, you know, rather than all day, every day, back and forth, this and that, blah, blah, blah.

[Cameron Crowe]

You're making good choices. I can feel it. I can feel it.

[Tig Notaro]

I just.

[Cameron Crowe]

I want the lighter email, the. No, this is good. It's gonna be a good year for you.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it's gonna be a good year for you. Let's spin it one more time.

[Tig Notaro]

I feel like I know where this is gonna land.

[John Lovett]

Oh, it's landed on me. All right. Here's something that I'm not gonna change. Oh, I'm gonna use my phone in bed before bed. I'm just gonna use my phone in bed before bed. I'm gonna be on my phone till it's time for my eyes to literally close. The best you can hope for, and I consider this a compromise, is I will declare. You know what? It's bet I gotta clear my mind and put my phone down so I can focus on one screen as a treat for maybe 15 minutes before we're lights out. And I mean, I want to have the TV going off and asleep. Like I don't want. There's going to be just. I'm watching a show, credits roll, TV off, out. That's how I want to.

[Tig Notaro]

And how does Ari deal with that?

[John Lovett]

Or.

[Tig Notaro]

We don't even care about that.

[John Lovett]

They're on the same page, okay? They're on the same page. Well, we. They. They are. They will end up. We will turn that show off. I will go to sleep, and then they will be on their phone for like another hour trying to call you.

[Cameron Crowe]

Trying to wake you up, because they're.

[John Lovett]

They are not. They're like a. They're like a night owl. Yeah, they're a night owl. But I can just. Just fall asleep.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Wow.

[John Lovett]

I can just fall asleep now. I'll wake up too soon. I'll wake up too soon because the Cameron Crow the thoughts begin. Oh, the thoughts, they come.

[Cameron Crowe]

Are you the first to wake up?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah. I'm up. I'm up.

[Cameron Crowe]

Got it.

[John Lovett]

My eyes open. I'm awake.

[Tig Notaro]

He's up.

[John Lovett]

He's up. Up. I got you. Are you able to fall back to sleep once you've woken up?

[Tig Notaro]

It depends. I mean, I. I struggle. I already. I like, showed up. I said I love rock and roll and I have trouble sleeping, Cameron. I already went into all this backstage, but yeah, I have to do my breathing exercises. I have to do all of those kind of things. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'm here on no sleep, by the way.

[John Lovett]

But you know what? They wouldn't have known that. And that's what we. I said that to you backstage. There's only one way you are on stage. You know what I mean?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[John Lovett]

Fucking awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, right.

[John Lovett]

You know, Tig Notara, you know, you have a. You're like. You're.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm a machine.

[John Lovett]

You're like Michael Jackson when he played with Michael Jordan.

[Tig Notaro]

I just like Michael Jackson.

[John Lovett]

Michael. Michael. I was trying to say Michael Jordan, the flu game. I was trying to say Michael Jordan, the flu game. That's what I was trying to say. But in many ways you also do separately, and we've talked about this remind me a lot of Michael Jackson. Now here's something. Here it is. Here's something. Something I will change. Something I will change. Well, I will tell you something. Here's something I'm in the process of changing, which is it did take me, Cameron Crowe, until over the age of 40 to be officially diagnosed with what is evident by the cards and people that listen to the show as an extremely terminal Case of adhd. Like, truly, one of the worst like this is. We've never seen one like this. We didn't know it could get this bad. Like, they bring in other. They bring in the residents to kind of look at the chart and be like, have you ever seen anything like this? We've never seen a brain make connections this poorly before. We've never seen somebody.

[Tig Notaro]

So I was picturing your skeleton on there too.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah, my bones. They're like, those bones have adhd. We didn't know that was possible.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, the doctor had ADHD too, and was like. I was looking at the bones. That's why you guys are a good match.

[John Lovett]

And then we're like, we have an idea about bones. All that's a way of saying is, I now take something called Adderall. And I don't know if you've heard of this stuff. Boy, boy. They just give it to you at the pharmacy. That's insane. Because every day from about 9 to 3:30pm, I'm a superior being. I'm like Cameron's friend, what's his name, movie star Tom Cruise, when he's in Minority Report, moving the screens around. That's me doing my emails from 9am to 12pm Damn. That's what happens. I'm like, I can see the future. I know about pre crime. I'm moving things around. And then I'll crash and burn. Yeah, then I'll crash and burn. Worth it. Worth it, worth it.

[Cameron Crowe]

What's the crash like?

[John Lovett]

Oh, you're in it. This is it.

[Tig Notaro]

Wait, maybe I have adhd. Did you say what you're not gonna stop doing?

[John Lovett]

I'm. No, I'm gonna keep doing Adderall. I'm gonna keep using my phone in bed.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, right, right.

[John Lovett]

And the change is I'm gonna keep. Keep treating this ADHD thing I found out that I had, obviously, because that's a new thing for me too. Cause I respond to my emails every sort of three or four years. That's been my thing. I say, hey, don't email me unless the number is in the Fibonacci sequence. So it has to be Fibonacci. So sometimes it's two years in a row, but sometimes there's a huge gap.

[Tig Notaro]

It's like, oh, boy. John wandered off. I thought they'd get a laugh. It's weird when they don't, you know?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

It's like what I do, you know, I felt it.

[Cameron Crowe]

I just want you to know the.

[Tig Notaro]

Pain or the potential gamut of all of it.

[Cameron Crowe]

The potential, the realization.

[Tig Notaro]

I like the visual of people waiting on him to write back and then realizing he's wandering off and I picture him heading off into the woods and I don't know, I liked it. It's good anyway.

[John Lovett]

And that's our show. Thank you so much.

[Cameron Crowe]

On that note, it's great.

[John Lovett]

Thank you so much to Cameron Crow. Tignatar. What a blast.

[Tig Notaro]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

We will see you next year at Dynasty typewriter. There are 325 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great New Year's. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked media on Instagram, TikTok and all Twitter the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free Love it or Leave it and POD Save America episodes, subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign [e-mail] friends love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee I. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our Associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer, Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufmann, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre and Subha Agrawal are our writers. Jordan Kantor is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Cher. Sure. Thanks to our designer Sammy Cadearna Rhys for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers David Toles, Claudia Shang Mia Kelman, Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaeschi for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt De Groat and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east. With Venmo. Stash a taco in one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back. Nice. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo stash on your favorite brands when you pay with your Venmo debit card. From takeout to ride shares, entertainment and more. Pick a bundle with your go tos and start earning cash back at those brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply. Max $100 cash back per month. See terms at Venmo Me Stachterms Pandora makes it easy for you to find your favorite music. Discover new artists and genres by selecting any song or album, and we'll make.

[Cameron Crowe]

You a personalized station for free. Download on the Apple App Store or.

[John Lovett]

Google Play and enjoy the soundtrack to your life.