Political Violence Bad

Summary

Lovett or Leave It – "Political Violence Bad"

Date: September 13, 2025
Host: Jon Lovett (Crooked Media)

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Episode Overview

In this powerful, darkly funny, and challenging episode, Jon Lovett addresses the shocking escalation of political violence in America, particularly the murder of Charlie Kirk. He explores the toxic political climate, the manipulation of tragedy for partisan purposes, and what it means for democracy and empathy. Lovett is joined by Minnesota State Rep. Leigh Finke for a nuanced discussion on anti-trans scapegoating and policy. The episode also features a lively, joke-filled queer panel with Alex English, Punky Johnson, and River Butcher, culminating in the always-unpredictable Rant Wheel.

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Main Segments & Key Timestamps

1. Opening Monologue: A Week of Political Violence ([01:18–12:01])

Main Points

• Backdrop: Lovett launches into the show with rapid-fire jokes about current pop culture, quickly pivoting to the grim news of Charlie Kirk’s assassination.
• Escalation of Political Violence: Lovett lists recent incidents—attempts on Trump’s life, murders of lawmakers, the Paul Pelosi hammer attack, and more—framing these as symptoms of a deeply broken political era.
• How Politicians Respond:
  • Democrats universally condemn violence.
  • Utah Gov. Spencer Cox is praised for genuine, unifying leadership:

    “Nothing I say can unite us as a country… We just need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be.” ([03:29], Governor Cox)

  • Many GOP leaders and right-wing media figures—Alex Jones, Trump, a member of Congress—use the moment to vilify the left, stoke fear, and promise crackdowns.
    • Notable quote from a Congressmember:

      “Some of the American left are undoubtedly well meaning people, but their ideology is pure evil. They hate the good, the truth and the beautiful and embrace the evil, the false and the ugly.” ([04:51])

• Lovett’s Take:
  • Satirical asides about double standards ("Imagine if your colleague from sales got up and said marketing... is evil… other than at Netflix, where is that tolerated?") ([05:03])
  • Mocks the opportunism and lack of fact-finding; highlights failures in official responses and rapid disinformation.

Standout Quotes

• “And the fact that I’m the emotionally mature one here should be chilling to your core.” ([06:49], Lovett)
• “Assassinations are acts of arrogance and domination. Whatever the motive, it is an assumption of power stolen from each of us, no matter who it targets.” ([10:38], Lovett)

Key Takeaway

Empathy cannot be conditional, even when its subjects are adversarial or complicit in dangerous rhetoric. Lovett urges the audience to resist the “viciousness in us now” and remain committed to values of care and humanity—“without becoming depraved ourselves.”

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2. Interview: Rep. Leigh Finke on Anti-Trans Vilification ([14:15–34:23])

Main Points

• Personal Updates: Rep. Finke recently married at the Minnesota State Capitol, infusing the discussion with a note of trans joy.
• Dehumanization and Scapegoating:
  • Finke traces the right’s tactics: blaming trans people even in unrelated tragedies, and pushing the narrative of an existential threat.
    • “The central policy of the Trump administration … is trans eradication… By making every story a trans story.” ([17:18], Finke)
  • The Wall Street Journal report about “trans and anti-fascist ideology” on the bullets is cited as an example of how quickly disinformation spreads.
• Policy Discussion:
  • The attacks aren’t limited to youth:

    “They took gender affirming care away from people in prison, military, military families… all federal employees…” ([19:08], Finke)

  • The strategy: using insurance restrictions, FTC investigations, and institutional pressures to erase care.
• Responding to the “Sports Question” Trap:
  • Lovett and Finke discuss how trans athletes become lightning rods, despite the minuscule number affected.
    • “There are 510,000 student athletes and 10 of them in the NCAA are trans. I mean, it is not a problem.” ([22:25], Finke)
    • “If you give here, you’re going to give there… people who take a baby step towards ‘it’s ok if we give up on sports,’ [soon give up on healthcare too].” ([24:05], Finke)
  • Rather, Democrats should forcefully affirm: trans people belong.
    • “Trans girls are girls and should play with the girls and trans boys are boys and should play with the boys… You will never find a pathway forward [by compromising]…” ([26:33], Finke)
• Trans Joy and the Value of Transness:
  • Moving beyond defense into celebration.
    • “I love being trans so much, and we have so few opportunities to just enjoy and love ourselves in public.” ([29:44], Finke)
    • Trans liberation unlocks liberation for all: “Everyone has ways that gender and patriarchy and these constructs have really done damage to who we are and who we can be…” ([31:05], Finke)
• Societal Discomfort and Opportunity:
  • Both Lovett and Finke opine that what unsettles many conservatives is the existential freedom transness represents.
  • They riff humorously on the absurdity of gendered shoe sizing and the boredom of men’s clothing.

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3. Panel: “Gay Supreme Court” with Alex English, Punky Johnson, and River Butcher ([36:08–59:58])

Main Points

• Queer Community Banter:
  • The all-queer panel brings lively (often irreverent) conversation and Q&A, tackling audience queries about queer dating apps, identity language, and more.
• Grindr Ratings:
  • River: Instead of Yelp-style reviews, proposes “airport bathroom” style smiley faces for satisfaction. ([39:26])
  • Alex: “I don’t need them [exes] telling you what’s going on. That’s all. Yeah. I’ll never find anybody ever again.” ([41:00])
  • Punky: Advocates radical honesty about her own relationship flaws for new dates.

    “I meet a bitch, I be like, look, bitch, I’m barely gonna be home. … But I’ll pay your light bill…” ([42:36])

• Definitions: Pansexual vs. Bisexual:
  • River offers an impromptu history lesson:

    “The actual definition of bisexuality, the original definition is being attracted to the opposite gender and the same gender as yourself… pansexual was designed to be like inclusive of trans people, but it’s actually like this horseshoe of being, like kind of weirdly transphobic.” ([45:26])

• Black History & Allyship:
  • Alex riffs on the overzealous white NYU graduate desperate to discuss Black history and literature, humorously cautioning white listeners to “stand down.”
• Pete Buttigieg’s Alleged “Straightness”:
  • Lampooning a Tucker Carlson conspiracy; broad support on the panel for Pete’s “gay credentials.” Punky launches into an impassioned, expletive-laden defense:

    “The problem is not the fact that he gay. … What about who he is as a person? He’s a good person… He did the homework… Because he gay he ain’t qualified? … Pete, you should be on his next campaign…” ([59:03]–[59:41])

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4. The Rant Wheel ([62:25–70:43])

Panel Rants & Highlights:

• River Butcher:
  • On cis women’s hostility to trans men in gyms and awkward restroom transitions.

  “Honestly think that’s part of why trans guys are on this planet. … Guys, we don’t have to live like this.” ([62:45])

• Leigh Finke:
  • On the sports debate’s erasure of trans men:

  “Nobody is talking about how if we do what they want us to do, jacked trans men are gonna be playing in these women’s leagues…” ([65:26])

• Punky Johnson:
  • On intra-community queer policing and regional differences in queer life:

  “If I disagree with one thing about the gay people, the group where we supposed to be all inclusive… call me homophobic. Fuck you, bitch…” ([67:26])

• Alex English:
  • On unnecessary white outrage over supposed racial issues in pop culture:

  “I need white people to understand that black people don’t really give a fuck as much as y’all do…” ([69:10])

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Notable Quotes

• Lovett:

  “We are drowning in images of death and violence, and it enrages us against our opponents, it radicalizes us while sapping us of our care and empathy. … I beg you to see past your animosity, to enter that uncomfortable place where you see the humanity of those blaming us right now.” ([09:34])

• Leigh Finke:

  “Trans liberation is liberation for everyone, because everyone has ways that Gender and patriarchy … have really done damage to who we are and who we can be.” ([31:05])

• Punky Johnson:

  “There are different regions of gay… Don’t call me homophobic, bitch. We just got different regions of gay. And that’s just how the fuck the goddamn cookie crumble. Okay? Fuck y’all.” ([67:26])

• Alex English:

  “I just said I loved white people. What? 20 minutes ago, I was kind of lying, but not all the way…” ([70:28])

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: A trademark mix of sharp political satire, sincere moral challenge, and queer community humor. Lovett and his guests balance critical commentary with irreverent, incisive wit.
• Big Picture:
  • The real threat to democracy is the normalization (across both political divides) of dehumanization and violence.
  • The “culture wars” are manufactured distractions that undercut solidarity and progress, especially for already-marginalized groups.
  • Comedy and community are vital resources in weathering dark times, but mustn’t replace empathy or flatten complex, lived experiences.

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Listen for These Segments

• Political violence, empathy, and responsibility: [01:18–12:01]
• Leigh Finke on anti-trans policy and joy: [14:15–34:23]
• Queer panel jokes, identity debates, and Pete Buttigieg: [36:08–59:58]
• Rant Wheel (highlighting frustrations from within and beyond the LGBTQ community): [62:25–70:43]

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For more, subscribe to Friends of the Pod for ad-free episodes and bonus content at crooked.com/friends or Apple Podcasts.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

There is no longer any middle ground. Some of the American left are undoubtedly well meaning people, but their ideology is pure evil. They hate the good, the truth and the beautiful and embrace the evil, the false and the ugly.

[A]

And you can add that to the list of examples of the House of Representatives being the absolute worst office job on earth. Imagine if you're at your job and your colleague from sales got up at an all hands and said the marketing team has one or two people I can tolerate, but the team as a whole is evil and hates all that is good and pure. Other than at Netflix, I can't think of an office culture where that is tolerated. Here's Alex Jones in a live stream from his InfoWars channel while driving. This is a war. This is a war.

[B]

This is a war.

[A]

This is the war. Sorry, that was the wrong clip. That was just Alex Jones racing home to try to not completely shit his pants. And here's Trump from the Oval Office promising a crackdown against the left. For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now. My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support it. Remember when a Democratic lawmaker and her husband were assassinated in Minnesota and Trump said it would be a waste of time to call Governor Tim Waltz? Hard to believe that was only 70 years ago. And look, I don't want to tell these guys how to do their jobs, but if you're going to use a political assassination's motivations as a justification for a broad crackdown against your opposition, you should catch the guy first. John Hinckley wanted to date Jodie Foster, the guy that fired 29 rounds at the White House to kill Bill Clinton in 1994. Claimed he was trying to stop an alien mist and emanating from the Colorado mountains. And it worked. Meanwhile, as this was unfolding, the head of the FBI posted that the subject for the horrific shooting today that took the life of Charlie Kirk is now in custody only for that person, as well as another potential suspect, to later be released. It is nice that all of Trump's appointees can take turns absolutely whiffing it in the spotlight like this. Step aside, RFK Jr. It's cash Patel's week to step on his own dick. Then the Wall Street Journal passed on a report that said the recovered ammunition was engraved with what it described as transgender and anti fascist ideology, only to add a word of caution from a Justice Department official that said the report might not be accurate. But that's the good news about anti trans hysteria. It goes right back in the tube. Just no problem. The State Department also promised to revoke visas of noncitizens who made light of the killing on social media. Please feel free to bring such comments by foreigners to my attention so that the State Department can protect the American people, said the undersecretary for online Narcs and bitter virgins. Obviously, there are many on the right that want to exploit this killing, but There are also others genuinely furious, and rightfully so. But it's just so clear that part of what makes this political era so toxic is that even elected Republican leaders, supposed adults, do not see it as their job to take one step past raw emotion into the slightly uncomfortable place next to it where you can try to translate that anger without being completely compelled by it. And the fact that I'm the emotionally mature one here should be chilling to your core. These Republicans cannot see past their animosity, and they're led by a person who has never understood wisdom well enough to pretend to have it. But there is a strain of this on the left, too, even as we have broadly seen denunciations of political violence and the danger it poses. Even as Democrats have, of course, modeled responsibility in a way Republicans increasingly, there has been what Jackman described well, as an almost competitive lack of empathy. And while the vilification of the left by those in power is not the same as indifference to Kirk's killing by those outside of it, both are part of the same problem, as was the celebration of the death of Brian Thompson and the jokes after the attack on Paul Pelosi. And look, I love jokes, but jokes are like donuts. Delightful in almost every situation, but useless when someone is attacking Paul Pelosi with a hammer. Oh, my God. We live in a depraved era. There is a viciousness in us now. We are drowning in images of death and violence, and it enrages us against our opponents, it radicalizes us while sapping us of our care and empathy. We are sensitized and we are desensitized all at once. I understand why people see the news of Kirk's death and display a lack of empathy and bristle at the suggestion that they're wrong not to feel what's proper, especially when voices on the right have fomented so much hate, incited violence, targeted vulnerable people, spread lies that tear at the fabric of society. And I'll be honest, there are jokes that I cannot and will not say, but not because they have not occurred to me. You all know me. I have that in me. I can go for a horrible joke. I have a joke in my mind that would take the paint off of Buick. I'm not. I'm not better than anybody else. I'm not better than anybody else. Except for Dan. I'm better than Dan. I'm kidding. Dan's the best of us. He's the best of us. But this isn't about decorum or respect or performative grieving. And it's not about defending Charlie Kirk's worldview even a little bit. It's not about what we owe the them. It's about what we owe each other. Assassinations are acts of arrogance and domination. Whatever the motive, it is an assumption of power stolen from each of us, no matter who it targets. It invites chaos and further violence. And if it doesn't disgust you, viscerally, if you aren't horrified and enraged, I'm sorry. But I beg you to see past your animosity, to enter that uncomfortable place where you see the humanity of those blaming us right now. I don't think we should fool ourselves into believing that doing that makes us weak or naive about our opposition. That capacity is what makes us the left, those who believe in an America far more generous and just and kind, different from the right. And ultimately it is what gives us power. And that is how we get to the end of what is a depraved era without becoming depraved ourselves. And if all of this wasn't bad enough, the $5 breakfast special only applies to the sausage egg McMuffin when obviously we all want the classic egg McMuffin. And I swear to God, the left will pay for this. All right, when we come back, I'm joined by State Rep. Lee Finke. And boy am I glad.

[C]

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[A]

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[B]

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Donate [e-mail] backtoschool and we're back. Please welcome to the stage Minnesota state representative, Trans Freedom alliance, state policy director and extremely exhausted queer person. It's Leigh Finke.

[C]

Hi.

[A]

Thank you for being here.

[B]

Welcome invitation. Hello, everyone.

[A]

Nice to meet you.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Hello. Nice to meet you in person. We talked briefly and I was really. I really enjoyed our conversation. But since the last time we spoke. You got married.

[B]

I did. Only like two weeks ago.

[A]

Two weeks ago. Wow. Is it different?

[B]

Not really. But it was a great wedding, so that was worth it.

[A]

Yeah. You did at the state capitol.

[B]

Yes, in the Minnesota State Capitol. And then we had a street party afterwards with dancing and pizza, and it was delicious.

[A]

One of the largest freestanding marble domes in the world.

[B]

That's right. That's right. The one right under it is St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

[A]

It's bigger than the one in St. Peter's Basilica. Wow. That's crazy, because I went to. I've been to both, actually, and one time I accidentally went to the St. Peter's Basilica in Rome on Palm Sunday. Oh, boy. That's the busy season. The trains were full of people with fronds. And I was like, why does everyone have fronds?

[C]

Oh.

[A]

But I saw Pope John Paul II in person.

[B]

How was he?

[A]

Small. And you had a dj? Lizzo's dj.

[B]

Yes. Lizzo's DJ was our DJ for the wedding. That was a big coup for us because we are nobody. And she is Lizzo's dj. But it was amazing. She was wonderful. Very excited to come and do our biggest trans queer wedding.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

You can read all about my wedding in the New York Times if you're interested.

[A]

That's because you both come from oil money.

[B]

Yes. Oh, yes. Minnesota oil money. Yes.

[A]

So in other news, Minnesota just went through this terrible tragedy of a mass shooting, this attack, and immediately after, there was an effort to villainize trans people. Just the notion of being trans, trans ideology, they call it, as being responsible by the right because. And now today there was this kind of sketchy report claiming that there was some inscription on the bullets of this weapon that espoused what they described as trans ideology and anti fascist ideology. We still don't know what that means or even if it's true or how you can get that on a bullet, write that on a little tiny bullet. But clearly there is. You know, there's been so much vitriol and an effort to take a whole range of stories and make them about trans people. Even when RFK Jr testified and was obliterated because he's a moron, JD Vance said, I have trouble taking these Democrats seriously because of what they believe, and then inserted his characterization of beliefs on trans issues. And it was like, why does this have anything to do with anything? How do you respond to the effort to kind of vilify trans people and make them the story, whether it's a mass shooting or an anti vax cabinet secretary or what have you?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, for me, I think what that is about is about the central policy of the Trump administration, which is trans eradication. I think there is a concerted trans eradication policy. And by making every story a trans story. Right. Long before the shooter at Annunciation, they have said the last four, five, six shooters in these mass shootings are trans and they're not trans. They've just been lying about that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So when the Annunciation shooter had a trans relationship with trans identity, we don't really know what it is. It was like hitting the jackpot for them because finally this thing that they have been lying about had become true. They want everyone to be talking about trans people and nothing else whenever they have an opportunity. So whether it's medications and RFK's madness or whatever JD Vance is talking about when he's talking about us, which is all the time, and even Trump, who's just dropping in random anti trans language into his remarks, this is a part of a policy that they are trying to execute, which is getting rid of trans people from the public sector.

[A]

So I feel like there's the kind of political fight they're trying to have and what they claim that fight is about, and then there's the policy agenda behind it. I want to split those out and I want to start with the Policy agenda. So there have been a lot of orders that have gotten a lot of attention. Those have been around hot button issues, sports, youth, military. Among those orders. Where is it that like the fear obviously is not just that they're going to go after trans youth. Right. Or they're going to go after access to trans healthcare for trans adults. Even outside of.

[B]

I mean they are existing.

[A]

So how are they doing that?

[B]

They're doing. They're one. They took away the essential health benefit from Obamacare to cover gender affirming care for people of all ages. They took gender affirming care away from people in prison, from people in the military or people in military families and from all federal employees. They removed gender affirming care from the health insurance coverage of federal employees. So there's tens and tens of thousands of adults who have lost their health care in addition to all of the attacks on gender affirming care for minors that we are seeing and going to continue to see. And they have many current programmatic. They have a lot of different ways they're doing this right now. This is continuing. HHS is going to release some rules. They have the Federal Trade Commission that's investigating. They're going to continue doing it until it is gone is their plan. And it's not just about kids.

[A]

And so what is the status of. So that's how they're doing it. To limit ability to get insurance to cover it, where they have that power. What are they doing beyond that around broader bans to access regardless?

[B]

Well, it's much more difficult to ban access for adults. Right. What they're trying to do is use Hyde amendment style attacks. They're trying to take it, make it so that any place that is providing gender affirming care puts everything else they do at risk. Right. So if you have 1% of the population receiving a small amount of care, you're just not going to jeopardize everything else you do to service that 1% of the population. I'm not sure if the plan to take it away would be what they're trying to do at the Federal Trade Commission, which would make it so that doctors cannot provide it. They have this gender affirming care is fraud essentially on its surface. And then thus it would be not legal to provide gender affirming care.

[A]

So I want to run through that in part because that is not the story of what is happening around trans issues in the country. The story is more about certain edge cases. It's around competitive sports, it's around gender affirming care. Not just for minors, but for young minors. And I want to know how you think we get out of that kind of that bell, Right? Because conservatives want us in that conversation because they view that as their strongest ground. I think polling has retreated on trans issues in a way that's really frightening. But largely, if you ask people, should people have access to healthcare that the doctor wants them to receive as adults? Of course, the answer is very positive. People should be able to live as they are. But here they think they have winning issues. So how do we break that cycle?

[B]

I mean, we as Democrats. I am an elected Democrat, right? And one of the things that I spend my time doing is talking to elected Democrats about how to get away from spiraling the drain on sports, because we will never get out of that. That is a trap. And it is a trap they have played to beyond their wildest dreams, successful. And what we need to do as Democrats is articulate a vision of a country where trans people belong to and get out of the stupid spiral of talking about sports, which is not an issue. There are dozens of trans people in this country who play sports that are youths. And we are obsessing over them. Obsessing over them. You know, the president of the NCAA said there are 510,000 student athletes and 10 of them in the NCAA are trans. I mean, it is not a problem. We need to be boldly speaking, not about sports, but about trans people and the value that we have and non binary people and two spirit people. And that we belong in the country and deserve what everyone else deserves. And we don't need to take the bait and we don't need to get into a terrible downstream effects of trans healthcare, like all of the stuff that they're trying to do, it just eclipses the very fact that we want the same things everyone else wants. And if you're fighting for health care and housing and food security and jobs, then you're fighting for trans people. And don't be afraid of that.

[A]

I want to dig into this a little, in part because I'm like sick of it. And I'm sick of this sort of, because I feel like I hear that. And that all sounds right to me. It's a trap. I see how it's a trap. It's obviously not a major issue. And I assume the people that have been answering questions in a way that has gotten heat from the left on these issues, whether it's Pete Buttigieg who had his time in the barrel, or Gavin Newsom's time in the barrel, or Seth Moulton's time in the barrel that they would all agree with what you just said. But their answer to this is, yeah, I don't, I agree it's a trap. But I'm not gonna say that people's concerns about a top competitive NCAA athlete are wrong. I'm gonna say let's not focus on that. We should just lose on that. That's a real issue. We don't need to own that. Let's protect trans people everywhere else. I wanna understand why that's wrong.

[B]

That is wrong. They all earned their time in the barrel because that is wrong. We don't just say we can the rights of these people in order to defend the next fight. We know if you look at the work of trans politicians and trans advocacy over the last few years, you will see that people who take a baby step towards it's okay if we give up on sports. It takes them very little time to give up on gender affirming care. And you saw your governor out here do that. He did one podcast and he talked about sports and then on the next one he was like, yeah, I'm not sure I'm cool with the healthcare either. We won't gain anything by giving up on that. What we do is we say to people what is true. And I know that they believe it. They're baking in a stew of anti trans. I mean, they watch. These are people who watch Fox News every day. They have no concept of trans people in reality, of trans kids, of sports. They know nothing. But what we do know is that American voters don't want us to be giving up on people. That's not what people want. They want strength. They want powerful assertion of values. And saying like, yeah, we're going to let these kids go is not a position that's going to win you forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you have to give a policy position, fine. You can say like it's local control. I agree with local control. What are we going to do? Top down control? The top is a fascist maniac who's trying to eradicate trans people. Schools should be in charge of their sports policy. Is correct. But it doesn't matter if you give the correct answer. That's my point. It doesn't matter if your answer is the right answer. You will gain nothing by giving it up.

[A]

Yeah, no, and I introduce this by saying how sick I am of this topic. But I want to dive in with you a little bit about it just because I hear you say that like, oh, if you give here, you're going to Give there. Or I hear tactics and I hear strategy and I get that. And I hear the fear, which I think is what drives a lot of the frustration with mainstream Democrats who do this, which is, hey, you know, if you give here, you're the kind of person that's gonna give elsewhere. Right? But then I think, well, hold on a second. Is the actual successful answer to the question, like, the NCAA should make its own decisions. That's nothing to do with the government and leave it at that. But that to me says, without saying it, that there is an issue with a biological male being in a female sport. Right?

[B]

So you just gave them what they wanted, right?

[A]

Well, that's what I wanna understand.

[B]

You gave it to them by saying a biological male in a female sport. Because trans girls are girls and should play with the girls and trans boys are boys and should play with the boys. And trans boys, by the way, are completely erased from any conversation about sports. They're talking about trans women and girls, let alone two spirited, non binary people. Like, there are complicated factors to these questions. But the problem with the question that you are asking is what is the right answer? And there isn't a right answer. There is nothing satisfactory to say to people who are trying to catch you on sports. There's no right answer.

[A]

But I'm not trying to be caught on sports. And I hear you, and I hear you about the mistake. I hear you about the way in which I'm giving into their logic. But part of the reason why I say it that way is I agree with you. I believe in the vast majority of sports. And what I care about is that trans girls get to play sports with their friends and grow up and be girls and have fun and not. And the vast majority of athletes are.

[B]

Not good, especially trans athletes.

[A]

But like, I see like high level competitive sports as sort of this specific and kind of exogenous special place where it's the one place where this is why they focus on it. There isn't a sense in which the biology could matter. And that's the one place where that's true. I don't care. Intramural sports, kids growing up, like, I want those kids to be protected at all costs. And that to me is the whole fight. I want people to feel safe, to be themselves. I want everyone who's trans to be able to be themselves and support it and have health care. And like, if I, if I see a debate about high level competitive sports, I think, couldn't that be the place where this biological question rears its ugly Head in a way, we actually lose on the merits. No. Is that wrong?

[B]

It is wrong because it's not a pro. It's a. It's a manufactured hypothetical. We have no examples of that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What do we have? We have a swimmer tying for fifth.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You have what maybe once in a. Like, what you're really predicating on the. The question on is no trans person can succeed. That's why they're taking trans women out of darts and pool and chess. And, you know, it's not a biological advantage in darts and pool and chess.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They do not want trans people in there. So I know that this is a difficult policy question, and that's why I'm saying you will never find a pathway forward. You will never find it. The pathway forward is trans people belong.

[A]

We spent a lot of time talking about this, and I'm glad we did. I'm very interested in this. But I am engaged to a trans person.

[B]

Congratulations. One, for being engaged and two, to a trans person.

[A]

And I do think it is threatening to a certain conception of, like, I don't think conservatives are wrong to see trans people as a vanguard for questions about gender. Really good questions that we should be asking. And if we weren't trapped in an endless cycle of recrimination and animosity. Can you talk a little bit about, like, what it would look like to describe trans people as. And transness as not just to be tolerated, but about what it contributes?

[B]

And that's such a great question, and I'm so grateful for it because I love being trans so much, and we have so few opportunities to just enjoy and love ourselves in public. Right. And that's why my wife and I got married at the Capitol and had the story in the New York Times, because trans joy is magnificent and beautiful, and I love it. And it saved me. And I grew up in those 90s, and we didn't know there was. I would have loved to have known about who I could have been a lot sooner. Right. But we had no idea. And I think that, you know, when it comes to, you know, being a trans person and the questions that you're asking. Right. One of the things that I think is so exciting about people who are exploring their gender is it's like an exploration of a new world, but it's like, interior. Right. You don't have to destroy and colonize things. You can just go into your body and your brain and you can discover things about yourself. I firmly believe that trans liberation is liberation for everyone because everyone has ways that Gender and patriarchy and these constructs that we live under have really done damage to who we are and who we can be. And it's not about becoming a certain kind of person. It's about finding out what kind of person you could become and to do that as a trans person. You know, when I came out in the first Trump. Right, at the beginning of the first Trump administration, and it was really hard. It was very difficult. And I remember going to my therapist and just being like, how could I possibly not have known this by now? Like, I must have a brain tumor, right? Like, you couldn't not realize this. And she said, you know, sometimes you just have to be shaken out of something. Right? And, like, she actually told me, I have never talked about this, but she said she had a bunch of trans women who joined her who've been like, a bunch of people came out as trans because Trump became the president, right? And, like, we went inside and started looking around because the world felt worse. And I think there's something really magical about that. And I think that there is a reason people are looking and exploring as the world burns, right? As the world feels less safe, because we're not going outside, we're going inside, and we're finding all these beautiful truths about ourselves. And the world should be lining up for us because we are bringing a freedom and a joy that is something that everyone can benefit from.

[A]

I don't know why I always go to Jesse Waters on this, but he's constantly talking about all the ways in which a man can't be. Men don't drink from straws, and they don't sing Happy Birthday and they don't dance, and there are all these things that men can't do. Even men's formal clothing is so. It's getting so restrictive, Right? So it's. One piece of frilly fabric is really what's tolerated. Right. Everything else should look the same. And I do think that that idea of questioning, I think it is terrifying because they're in a little. They're in a prison that's locked from the inside. And I do think it's really hard for people because it is a discomfort. There's a discomfort that it introduces because it requires them to ask questions maybe they haven't asked before, right? About why. What. What is it about me that. What is my masculinity to me? Right? What is my. What is the part of me that's a man and what is the part of me that's not. Yeah.

[B]

And some people, like Jesse Watters they have power that depends upon people not doing that.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Like you will lose your power over the people who you maintain power if those people start to free themselves from the bullshit constructs that you preach every single day. There's a major capitalist endeavor to not have people. The biggest. My little peek maybe into my. Maybe I'll rant about this later. But like the biggest problem for me is that I can't buy shoes that are cute, right? Like we haven't built a capitalist society for t girls to buy cute shoes. And that's a real problem.

[A]

I'll tell you something. This is a smaller problem.

[B]

That's a pretty small problem. Wait, actually it's not. Never mind.

[A]

But so when I just to buy pink sneakers so often you have to figure out the way to con. I have to figure out how to convert the female sizes to the male sizes because they're in different sizes for no reason because they're made in the same room. And the men's colors are always blue, gray, black.

[B]

I mean men's clothes are the most boring clothes and you don't realize that until you're trying to dress as a trans woman in these men's shoes that are all the same color.

[A]

It's crazy. Those shoes are cute. Those shoes are cute.

[B]

I love a chunky boot.

[A]

Representative Lee Finke, thank you so much. Really good talking.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

We'll be back. Thank you. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. Love it or Leave it is brought to you by blinds.com if you've ever thought about upgrading your window treatments but didn't want the hassle, blinds.com is here to change the game. You're the only company that lets you shop custom blinds and shades online, then backs it up with a professional in home measure and install service. Tired of waiting around all day for an in home design appointment just to get a quote? You're right. I am sick of it. @blinds.com you can skip the stress and get expert design advice through their own convenient virtual consultations on your schedule. Four in the morning? Five in the morning? I don't think so. It's probably during their business hours, you know, but so you could schedule it. I don't know what their schedule is. I don't think they got 24 hour blind people. I mean, you know, it's convenient. But be realistic. Whether you know what you want or need a little help, they'll get you covered. Do it yourself or sit back and let blinds.com handle everything from measured install. Either way, you have access to experts every step of the way. Blinds.com makes it easy to get their designer look without the showroom markups. They're on a mission to make custom window treatments easy and affordable for everyone. Get the same quality and service you would at other high end stores, but at a fraction of the price. They really get you on blinds, blinds and curtains. It's shockingly expensive. That's why you got to use blinds.com, shop with confidencelinds.com orders are backed by their 100% satisfaction guarantee. If you're not happy, they'll make it right. Right now, blinds.com is giving our listeners an exclusive $50 off when you spend $500 or more. Just use code. Love it at checkout limited time offer rules and restrictions apply. See blinds.com for details.

[E]

Being diagnosed with leukemia, lymphoma, myeloma, or one of over 100 other types of blood cancer makes people want more time to do the things they love. We are blood cancer united. We do the most for more people with blood cancer. Join us and [e-mail].

[A]

And we're back. Please welcome to the show. It's Alex English, Punky Johnson, and River Butcher. Hi. Come on out. Sit wherever. Hi. You can sit there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Hello.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

Greetings. I sit. I like to go high like a perch.

[D]

I like it. Yeah.

[E]

I look comfy.

[A]

It's nice.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't put my feet on people's furniture. That's disgusting. But y'.

[A]

All.

[C]

I do you do you. You do you. I have to.

[E]

It feel good not to be in my mama house.

[C]

We take shoes. We take shoes off in my household.

[A]

Yeah, you're right.

[C]

Not me shaming you.

[A]

Thank you for joining me. Thanks for being here. Let's lighten it up. You know, the news is heavy.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

But that's okay.

[C]

Really. What's going on?

[A]

We're not gonna.

[D]

I lost my phone.

[C]

I've been chilling.

[A]

Yeah. But. And there are a lot of questions we can't answer, but there are some we can. And it's a night of. We're just wandering across the pride flag at tonight's show. And that's fun. And so we have an all queer panel. And so we thought it would be time for some lgbt.

[C]

Who said I was gay.

[A]

This is so embarrassing.

[B]

So sad.

[A]

I'm like, nigga, you gay.

[C]

You gay.

[A]

Honestly, you did when you started talking.

[C]

So it's time for somebody. Somebody the other day told me they Thought I was bi, and I was like, yeah, I still got it. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[A]

What would be the difference? How would we know the difference?

[C]

I don't know. They just. They said I give bi energy. I don't even know what that means.

[A]

So we had a table up front where we asked for some of your LGBT questions. Kim. Not sure if I said that right. Hi, River. Hi. Hi. Hi. Good to see you.

[D]

Good to see you, too.

[A]

Hi, Punky.

[E]

Hello.

[A]

We hadn't really talked, Alex. We talked.

[C]

Well, you sound like Dave Chappelle as a white guy. Hello.

[E]

I'm trying to be professional.

[C]

Hello, John.

[A]

I know.

[C]

John.

[E]

I'm trying to be professional.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's not necessary.

[E]

No, I want to. I want to try it.

[C]

Well, you got. You got your legs crossed.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

That's.

[E]

I feel like we're on a panel. We got. Nice. Shit. I started off wrong with my feet on the thing. You. You said it. So now I'm about to go back into my professional shit. Yeah. We got class.

[A]

It's time for a segment we're calling Gay Supreme Court. Nice.

[C]

Oh, shit. Oh, I love that.

[E]

I love that shit.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

I look tired as hell.

[A]

I have a gavel, but we didn't really think about not having a hand for it. So, anyway, there's the gavel.

[D]

Nice.

[A]

And these are questions from the audience for our queer panel. And it could be about whatever topic. And if these suck, I have other questions.

[D]

This is how they do it on the real Supreme Court, by the way. Real.

[A]

Should each profile on Grindr include a satisfaction rating? Just like Amazon or Yelp?

[D]

I think that it should have that, but I think not. Amazon or Yelp version. The satisfaction. I think it should be like when you use an airport bathroom, you know, and they have the little buttons from, like, red, orange, yellow, green. I think that's. That's the metric we should use for Grindr profiles.

[A]

I love that. That's nice.

[C]

Like, emergency. Like, 9, 11. We're in the orange. We're in the yellow.

[D]

We're in the red.

[C]

Exactly right.

[D]

Terror alert.

[C]

Terror alert. Grinder. Now that I could get behind Terrible. Will this person destroy your fucking life? I can get behind that. Well, I.

[E]

Excuse me. I was next.

[C]

Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm the Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court. I just realized that. Go ahead.

[E]

I'm all about people exposing people. Well, I'm just to the edge right now. That I ain't got time to find out. So whoever you Dated last. I'm. I want whoever y' all was, come over here, get on this thing and say what this motherfucker was doing and what they wasn't doing and all the things, you know what I wanna start doing, Talking to people, exes, what I got to look out for.

[A]

Why is it that when you're hiring somebody, you get references?

[E]

Correct.

[A]

For something as important as a relationship, there's no references. No. What if before a date, you got a resume and you got a couple contacts and you call them and be like, what were they like? And they're like, do you want. I mean, I can tell you, like, they were a pleasure to work with. And it's like, that sounds. That sounds forced. What really happened?

[E]

Right. You know, tell me everything. I'm. I don't have time. I don't have time to find out no more. I disagree, and I'm kind of dumb. So when I see the red flag.

[D]

You think they're hot.

[E]

Yeah. I'll let a red flag go over my head. But if you tell me, if you warn me, then maybe I'll potentially pay more attention to the red flag.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. I have a hard time seeing red flags because I'm usually waving my own giant red flag.

[C]

Yeah, there we go. You know, I do that, too.

[E]

I do that, too.

[C]

And see, that's why I'm against this. That's why I'm against the whole, like, you know, talk to the ex and find out and rating. Nah. Element of surprise. That's part of being gay.

[A]

Chaos.

[C]

And also. And also, like, I feel like as a person who fucks up in relationships, often I don't need them telling you what's going on. That's all. Yeah. I'll never find anybody ever again.

[D]

That's right. I don't want my Uber rating going.

[C]

No, let's.

[A]

No, that's such an important point because the whole, like, all of the Internet discourse around virtually any issue is always written from the perspective of people who have been wronged. Like, there was a whole period of time where, like, there was a whole series of articles and, like, a whole thing about, like, am I dating a sociopath? Is this person a sociopath? Am I dating a narcissist? Am I dating a narcissist? And it's like, you know that the narcissists and the sociopaths are on the Internet too. You know, they're getting tips from all this stuff.

[D]

Absolutely.

[A]

You know, they're consuming. People are throwing out red flags, seeing red flags all at the same time. Yeah.

[E]

And I think we should expose ourselves. See, I am to the point where now ain't nobody gotta tell nothing, nothing about me. I meet a bitch, I be like, look, bitch, I'm barely gonna be home. I be on the road all the time. I might get some pussy from time to time, but it ain't gonna mean nothing. And then. And I ain't really the most romantic nigga, but I'll pay your light bill, and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

And. And then when all the shit start happening, they'd be like, it's fine, I can deal with it. And then when all the shit start happening, I be like, I told you I was bitch. So I be trying to just put.

[C]

It all out there too long.

[D]

Daring.

[C]

I ain't shit.

[E]

There you go.

[A]

I was only on when I was first single again after having not been single for a decade, which meant I went from. I was from the pre App era to the App era. I took an Ambien, and right as I was falling to sleep, a friend of mine called to plan a Passover Seder. And I remember the beginning of the conversation and I don't remember the end. I did on Ambien, set up an OkCupid profile from scratch, then set my area to the world and then confused the two swiping directions and so just said, hell yeah to a ton of guys in, like, East Asia. Like, there was a lot of Filipino guys and there was a bunch of people and like, I think India that had been. Because that was the time of day. It was. It was the middle of the night. And so I was getting a lot of action in that time zone. It was really a time zone issue.

[C]

I didn't know Ambien automatically turns you 47 years old. OkCupid. I ain't heard that website.

[A]

Order, order in the court. Order, order, order. If we have another interruption like that, I'll throw you out of here, but I'll see where it goes. Next question. Where do the LA gays buy their high fashion bathing suits? I saw a gold lame one at the Sofitel pool and it rocked.

[C]

High fashion and LA gays do not belong in the same sentence.

[D]

Yeah, it does.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Y. I don't know how to dress out here. Everybody in LA dress like they going to the airport.

[D]

Oh, are you saying cozy and comfy? Is that what you're saying?

[C]

The. The city of Athleisure.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, it is. It is.

[C]

Don't nobody put in any effort here.

[A]

Stop looking at me. That sucks.

[C]

That wasn't an attack.

[A]

What's the difference between pansexual and bisexual.

[C]

Good night, y'. All.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

America just explodes.

[C]

What you think?

[E]

I don't even know.

[D]

Do I need to give a joke one or a real one?

[C]

Pan is like everybody, right?

[D]

But here's the crazy thing. The actual definition of bisexuality, the original definition is being attracted to the opposite gender and the same gender as yourself. So that is not exclusive of really anybody. Well, and there's an argument to be made that pansexual was designed to be like inclusive of trans people, but it's actually like this horseshoe of being, like kind of weirdly transphobic. And then we don't need it, but now it's too much in the zeitgeist. We can't take it out, you know, the pansexual toothpaste has all been squeezed, you know, so to me there. Wait, what did I say that one funny, I guess.

[C]

Okay, that was funny shit.

[D]

I didn't even know.

[E]

To be fair, he said too.

[C]

Oh.

[D]

I just did a callback by accident. Is that what I'm saying?

[A]

How am I anti trans toothpaste? How am I being bullied by the most supportive audience on earth?

[E]

That's crazy.

[A]

How did I get to this point?

[C]

These people came. That's crazy. Y' all wild. I will say, I think I know pansexual is whatever Wayne Brady is doing.

[A]

But it is like so bisexual. Your gender or the opposite gender. But it would conceivably exclude non binary people and therefore pansexual would include them.

[D]

Not technically, because if I'm not non binary, that is the opposite of my gender.

[C]

I don't even.

[A]

What is opposite doing here? It's just not your gender.

[C]

Well, because what is opposite?

[D]

We as Americans have a very confusing understanding of what the word opposite actually means. Because in like some other country that I can't remember the name of. Sweden, Norway, some shit like that. When you ask a person in that country what is the opposite of boy, they say, man.

[E]

Exactly. So.

[C]

Good point.

[E]

The opposite is preach. Really? Stand up. Take the float. I will. It's on a different fucking goat.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

River.

[C]

River. Filibuster. This is a filibuster. River.

[D]

The opposition is not actually gender. So if I put the word opposite the way they're thinking about it, it's like, who am I?

[E]

Who are you?

[A]

Awesome. That's it.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

That's why I don't know who that person is, because I think about that.

[E]

Shit all the time.

[A]

You know, there are some languages where you face the past and the future is behind you. Which makes a lot more sense. Because we don't see the future.

[E]

Yeah. We can't.

[A]

We're riding backwards on a train.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

We see only the past exclusively. The future doesn't exist until it's on the other side.

[D]

That's right. And then it's not there.

[A]

It's never there.

[D]

Cause we're present.

[E]

Like, ah.

[C]

Only white people get to think like this. Black people. We always gotta stay in the past. Remember what they did to us. Remember what they did to us. You know, we can. Now we gotta stay in the past. Y' all free. Y' all get to be like where they go and have these conversations of, like, who I am, not who I was. And I'm like, it's just always who we was. Man. I love it. I get to soak in. Don't you love it when we do songs like this? We get to soak in all this.

[E]

Like, you see, I'm sitting up here mesmerized.

[C]

Yeah, man.

[D]

I love being around.

[C]

I love being around white people. I get. It's so fun. You can do. I feel like a sponge right now. I'm going back to New York. Different. Especially la. Gay White too. You know what I mean? Cause y'. All lol. Yeah.

[E]

No laws.

[C]

Yeah. I'm trying to act. I'm trying to get like y'. All. That's where freedom is. Queer and white.

[E]

You know what? Take the float. Pop off.

[C]

We are not in that segment of the show yet. We are still. Look at me. Look at me. Producing. Go ahead, John. This is your show. This is your show. Oh, John.

[A]

What kind of bisexual do you think Pedro Pascal is?

[D]

Pansexual?

[C]

Listen, that ain't none of our motherfucking business, okay? Lee? That king be a cutie.

[D]

A cutie bisexual.

[E]

Oh, I didn't know he was bi.

[C]

Listen, you still don't know. That is none of our motherfucking business. Okay?

[E]

Well, no. Now it makes me happy. Cause maybe he'll be my baby daddy. I pop some pussy from Pedro.

[C]

The way I pop it. The way punky offers. Like the men that she comes in contact with her uterus.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Cause didn't you do that to Travis Kelce? He can have some uterus before her. Before her? Before your girl. She was. Did you do.

[E]

He can have some uterus. He can 100% have.

[C]

She want to have his baby. So what you're saying is that you would be Taylor surrogate if need be.

[E]

No, I need her to be mine. The baby gonna Be my baby.

[C]

Well, I didn't know if you wanted it or not.

[E]

I want my baby. I want my baby. I ain't gonna be there, but I want it. I need my legacy to continue.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

I ain't doing nothing but creating another father motherless house. That's all I'm doing. Hey, but the bill's gonna be paid. Bill's gonna be paid.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Incredible.

[E]

Yeah, we creating all kind of different types of American families over here.

[D]

Let's go.

[A]

This week, the New York public school system introduced Frankie Focus, the furry green glasses wearing mascot of their new cell phone ban.

[C]

That's Bernie Sanders. The top 1% of the other 1%.

[D]

Your phone only has 1%. I got there.

[E]

I got there.

[A]

He got there. He got there. He got there, he got there. That was great. You got there, you got there at the end. You got there. What kind of gay is that?

[E]

That's gay. Gay.

[A]

That's a gay.

[C]

I still hit it.

[D]

Look at her.

[C]

I'm about to say my girl got her first day of school breaks.

[E]

Okay, what's the welcome sign? Is that they at a bus stop? Where they at?

[A]

Oh, yeah. PS5 82. Yeah, they're out of school with that mascot. Frankie Focus. What was their second.

[C]

Imagine being the lamest mascot. Like. Cause New York Liberty mascot right now is going up.

[E]

Oh, all the way up.

[D]

Ellie up.

[C]

Ellie is. Imagine him trying to walk up on Ellie.

[E]

Nah, Ellie sneaking at my Ellie like.

[C]

Nigga, if you don't. I'm gay. Get away from me. Because Ellie is a whole. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

I'm trying to get Ellie too gritty.

[A]

Doing a hate crime against Frankie Focus.

[C]

Frankie Focus can get fucked on a reason. Give the kids they sell phone they already cooked. What the fuck does it matter? They already cooked. This phone's teaching them more than the fucking students than the teachers.

[E]

That's true.

[C]

Shit. That's true. We can't undo this.

[E]

That's true. I'm dumb as hell.

[C]

Let TikTok I know they cook because I'm.

[E]

And I had a real good education. No cell phone, no iPads. I had a good education and I'm cooked.

[D]

I'm done.

[E]

I had a show Sunday and they asked me to send them a guest list. My brain wasn't braining. I didn't even send names. I sent nicknames. I was like, man. Man.

[C]

Delicious.

[E]

Also. Yeah, that was like punky.

[A]

And this is.

[E]

We need names, bitch. I was like, I don't know them niggas names. I was like, this is What? I know.

[A]

And. And so they should have the phones in schools.

[C]

Listen. I think so. Cause, like, you know, you know, y' all see what's out there.

[A]

Y'.

[E]

All.

[C]

Do y' all see who are actually teachers out there? Like, there are some people who. There are a lot of people who should not be teaching kids. And I'm like, would I rather have a phone telling my kids something? Or this weird motherfucker who I see arguing with 12 year olds online. Like, I'm on Facebook still, and I'm watching, like, people that I know that I went to high school with, who are teachers getting into arguments with, like, bots and, like, people who are, like, underage. And I'm like, do you know that people can see you? And you're a teacher. You are a teacher. I'm like, look. And also, while we. On the subject of education, look, since we on the Supreme Court, look, I get it. Black history is American history and it should be taught, but not in every school. I feel like. I feel like white people. I don't really need y' all to know black history like that. Like, it's actually none of y' all business. It's actually really none of y'.

[E]

All.

[C]

Cause, like, have you ever met, like, a white dude who went to NYU who learned about black history? That's the most annoying motherfucker you've ever met. Like, one time I was talking to a dude, one of these types of dudes, and he was like, you know, he was talking to me about black history. He kept referencing shit that I kinda didn't know, but instead of being. Being like, oh, yeah, that's cool. I'm like, get the fuck out of my face, dawg. You telling me about James Baldwin for I don't give a. Get the fuck on, bitch. Like, this telling me about my shit. This my shit.

[E]

He was trying to be a friend.

[C]

Nah, he's being racist. That's racist. I don't know how it's racist. I can't tell you exactly why it's racist, but I felt racial. I felt racial.

[A]

Hey, that's. Your feelings are valid, and we are not gonna question your feelings. Not on this stage. How about that?

[C]

I still feel targeted.

[A]

All right, last one. On a recent episode of his podcast, Tucker Carlson accused Pete Buttigieg of being secretly straight. I've always wanted to interview him. He's never agreed to interview, but I'm.

[E]

Going to ask him, like, some very.

[A]

Specific questions about gay sex and see if he can even answer. I doubt he even knows I loved.

[D]

How like, excited he got about really specific gay sex questions. But look, I. I think he's right about people judge. That dude said he would take a pill to be straight, right?

[C]

I mean, who am I?

[E]

He said that.

[A]

And that doesn't exist. Well, I think you go through that phase. I think some people go through that phase of self hating where he thought he would take a pill to stop being gay, but I don't think he'd take the pill anymore because then what he's has a husband and kids.

[C]

I mean, he's literally the gayest. You got a husband and kids. Listen, man, Listen, man. He's from where he from? Indiana.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[C]

Yeah. That's the kind of white dude who want to be straight. I get it. He went to the military, all that shit. I understand Pete.

[E]

I mean, he could have stayed in the closet, all that.

[C]

Listen, y', all, listen, y'.

[A]

All. He did for a while.

[C]

Listen, we're not gon get. We not gonna get. You know, my fellow Americans, that's not how we get. We not gonna get that. And Pete is not that. This is why this can run for office, dog. Like, he could be the first gay president. Cause this motherfucker on paper is the president. He was mayor in fucking middle of nowhere, fucking Indiana. He went to the military, went to the fucking top college.

[E]

He was tripping.

[C]

That's a straight man. That's a straight white man on there tripping. But this motherfucker, he should have pulled the Beyonce.

[E]

He should have pulled the fucking Beyonce.

[C]

Let me tell you something.

[E]

He should have faked it till he fucking made it and then hit us with one of these when he became president.

[C]

But that's not him because America's not gonna vote for this shit right now.

[E]

That's why he should have faked. He should have faked like a straight white man. He had zero got voted in act like he was fucking bitches and then hit us with the walking woke it.

[C]

Though I somewhat agreed you should have faked it. I agree with that. But also, I just think, you know, like, for him, it's like, listen, I'm trying to be here for all y', all, if y' all would just shut the fuck up. Dog. Shut the fuck up. Let me. I was same thing with Hillary. Hillary should have been like all them white women. Shut the fuck up. Let me do this. He could have really.

[E]

Cause like, the thing is, Pete.

[C]

Pete.

[E]

Pete exists.

[C]

Let me tell you something.

[D]

Are you arguing for Pete?

[C]

I'm arguing for Pete because let me tell You.

[E]

Why?

[C]

Because my mom. My mom, during the campaign. Here's campaign for presidency, my mom, at some point, she got on the horn and she called me. She was like, I'm thinking about voting for Pete. And y' all don't know my mama. I'm like, you just was okay with me being gay yesterday, and now you want a motherfucker that suck dick to run your country? That's progress. And my mama is light skinned and in the same sorority as Kamala Harris. And I'm telling y' all right now, y' all not ready for them kind of problems.

[A]

Counterpoint. No, I'm kidding.

[E]

Like I fucking said, he would have made a great president. He should have faked it. Like Beyonce when everybody was like, damn, Beyonce black. We should have been saying that about Pete. We don't. Oh, shit, Peter. Fruit cup. Hell yeah. He a fucking fruit cup. I like fruit cups.

[C]

You sound like my uncle.

[E]

Ain't nothing wrong with a fruit. No, the problem. Equal to the thing. The problem is not the fact that he gay. That's. This is why America make me sick. The stat. Why the. Why the. It got to be about being gay? What about who he is as a person? He's a good person.

[C]

You know, he.

[E]

He's worthy of a goddamn job. He got the stats. He got. He did the work. He did the homework. He's a man of the guy. He's a man of America. Because he gay. He ain't qualified. Man, y' all niggas, man. Pete.

[C]

Pete. You should be on his next campaign peak, bitch.

[E]

That's what it. It is.

[C]

And I. Pete, if you out there, if you watching this, hire this, okay?

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[C]

She will get you.

[E]

People out here listening to that. Was never in the military, didn't complete college, don't know what. They just up here making up their own theories and ideologies. You got people listening to these. Ain't about Pete.

[C]

Pete. Pete.

[A]

And that's a great place to leave it. Thank you. Sorry. No, it was great.

[E]

Damn it. Got me all riled up. The hell crazy right now.

[C]

Remember when Punky said she was trying to be professional?

[A]

Thank you to Alex, Punky and River. Keep an eye out for Punky Special you just shot in la.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

Hell, yeah, she killed that.

[A]

And check out Punky Johnson. Riv Butcher, alex English with a 3.

[C]

Don't say it like that, John. Laughing during my Instagram handle. That's crazy. During Black History Month.

[E]

That's insane.

[A]

And check out river at Laugh Camp comedy club in St. Paul on October 10th and 11th. All right, when we come back, it's the rant wheel.

[C]

Hey, don't go anywhere.

[A]

There's more of love it or leave it coming up. Love it or leave it is brought to you by Helix. I love Helix mattress the best. Talk about the data you saw from your wearable device. I don't have any data from any wearable device. I don't use them because I don't want that information. All I need is the data from my receptors on my body that say I'm comfortable. Wow.

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We are blood cancer united, the world's leading organization focused solely on blood cancer research, support and advocacy. We do the most for more people with blood cancer, so people with blood cancer can do more of whatever they want. Join us and [e-mail].

[C]

And we're back.

[A]

Please welcome back to the stage, representative Lee Finke. Now it's time for the rant. Will you know how it works? We spin the wheel, rubber lads. We rant about a topic for one minute there. Oh.

[C]

I knew it.

[A]

It is landed on river. What would you like to rant about?

[D]

I'm gonna rant about how CIS white women hate me in the gym. I started working out. I'm a trans dude. That's what we do. A lot of people work out, but I Started working out. And I will go to the gym and I'll be minding my own business, doing my own thing. And then I'll say, hey, could I use these weights? And a CIS white woman will be.

[E]

Like, there are other weights in the.

[D]

Rest of the gym. This is my time.

[E]

Don't touch these weights.

[D]

And I'm like, I just got here. I only just started using the men's restroom very, very recently. And look, I'm trying to change them. Guys, we don't have to live. Like. I honestly think that's part of why trans guys are on this planet. You don't. It doesn't. Don't poop in public so much. It's like you guys are waiting to do it. It's like it's 9:30 at a Billy Joel concert. You're gonna miss piano man. This was just about CIS people. Thank you.

[A]

That's an interesting phenomenon not often explored, which is when trans guys start using the men's room.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

And realize that they were wrong and made a huge mistake. That it wasn't worth it at all.

[C]

Yo, I get excited when I see y' all at the gym. I be like, hey, what's up?

[A]

I get it.

[C]

Yo, what's up, brother?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Newcomer. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

We out here welcoming me.

[A]

Cause really, really? The two genders on our bathrooms are clean and disgusting.

[D]

Well, the women's bathroom does have its own specific disgustingness, which.

[C]

What's really going on here?

[D]

I know. Not a lot of peeing, not a.

[E]

Lot of pooping, not a lot of poo. Just come on in.

[D]

I think men. Look, I think the people. I think we should all just be going to the bathroom together, but that you should come see me do my stand up so I can tell you the whole thing. Because, like, women need to be around some more disgusting shit. I really think everybody does. And men need to see some more unexplained blood in their lives. Might make you guys, like, stop doing crazy shit. Just like, whoa. On the ceiling. Yes. On a light day.

[A]

Wow. Let's spin it again. Rid has landed on Lee. What is something you'd like to rant about?

[B]

We talked. I was going to talk about shoes, but I heard there's a solution to that.

[A]

We have a solution that's emerged.

[B]

So instead I'm going to rant about the sports conversation. Because one of my favorite things about talking about trans sports is it doesn't include people like jacked trans men who exist and play sports and dominate. And nobody is talking about how if we do what they want us to do jacked. Trans men are gonna be playing in these women's leagues, and it's really going to cause a problem for people who don't understand anything about gender or transness or trans identity. So, you know, I mean, my friend river is jacked.

[A]

I heard that. Yeah, they've been using some weights lately.

[B]

I heard that he started lifting weights.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just. It drives me crazy that we have these conversations and we're talking about very poor athletes who are women like myself, when we should be talking about people who are very good at baseball, like river, who could be really doing something important. So it pisses me off to no.

[A]

End the lack of the fact that in all of their kind of imaginings, trans men don't exist. As if, like, Nancy Mace is going in to kind of police the bathrooms. And it's like we talked about it in the show that, like, as an act of protest, like, trans men need to visit the nation's capital en masse and just go to the bathroom.

[B]

They have done that, actually.

[A]

That's cool. They should do that. They should do that. And I just. Just to be kind of intellectually honest, like, I think river is a terrible athlete. I assume. I think they. I think that's an important thing not to just gloss over.

[B]

I did assume. Based on his gym attendance and love of baseball.

[D]

Yeah, no, I'm pretty good.

[E]

Pretty good. I'm pretty good.

[A]

Okay, sure. I'm pretty good.

[C]

The higher it goes, the less I'm convinced.

[A]

Let's spit it again. Mm. Punky, what's something you would like to rant about?

[E]

I just want to tell all the gay people that there are different regions of gay. Because I'll be on my page talking a whole bunch of shit. And as soon as I say something that don't align with the queer, of all the queer, because everybody think we all supposed to be alike. So if I disagree with one thing about the gay people, the group where we supposed to be all inclusive. Somebody come up on that motherfucker and call me homophobic. Fuck you, bitch. I've been fighting a gay fight for 30 motherfucking years. And also what y' all need to understand is it is different regions. Like I fucking say so. Down in the south, in Florida and Louisiana and Alabama and Georgia and Texas, we don't play that boy on boy gay shit, nigga, that's gay. Okay? So when I say it on my page, that don't mean I'm homophobic. That just mean down in the dirty south, we don't do two butches. Cause that's nasty, bitch. Okay? So don't call me homophobic, bitch. We just got different regions of gay. And that's just how the fuck the goddamn cookie crumble. Okay? Fuck y' all.

[C]

With five seconds to spare.

[E]

It's nasty.

[C]

Hell yeah.

[E]

Butchers is nasty. That's gay, dog.

[C]

That's against God's order.

[E]

Hell yeah. Gay commissioner does not approve. They do all that shit in California. Well, we here in California. Yeah. Y' all keep that gay shit out here.

[A]

Okay, we will. I think that's a good idea. A lot of good ideas tonight. A lot of good ideas. It's an ideas show. Let's spin it again.

[C]

Mm. How do I follow that?

[A]

Alex, what is something you would like to rant about?

[C]

I need white people to understand that black people don't really give a fuck as much as y' all do. Like, just ask your black friend what they care about and then choose to go off about that. Because, like, a month or so ago, that's Sydney Sweeney ad came out with the good genes or whatever. And it's like, nobody gave a fuck about that. That was black. Nobody black cared about nobody Black saw that fucking ad because we have separate algorithms. The only reason I saw it is because I follow white people online and they posted about it, and I'm like, oh, I guess. What's the problem here? And everybody that was mad in the comments. Everybody white, literally, like, nobody. Sydney Sweeney's a fine actress. Yeah, Big titties. Yeah, we love her. Like, she's beautiful. You watch Euphoria, but it's just like, niggas who, like, watch Euphoria had to be reminded who Sydney Sweeney was. So some shit is just not always a big deal. Y' all stand down right at the bell.

[A]

That was beautiful.

[B]

We are the worst.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[C]

No, no, hey, that's not what we're saying.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

I just said I loved white people. What? 20 minutes ago, I was kind of lying, but not all the way. I like you all. Are there black people here? It's an away game tonight.

[A]

And that's our show. Thank you so much to Lee Finky, Alex. And there's Punky Johnson, River Butcher. We'll see you next week at Dynasty typewriter. There are 416 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great weekend. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free Love it or Leave it and Pod Save America episodes, subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign [e-mail] friends love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our Associate producer. Hallie Keefer is our head writer, Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pearl and Subha Agrawal are our writers. Jordan Kanter is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Chercher. Thanks to our designer Sammy Cadearna Rhys for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers David Toles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt de Groat, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East Department of Rejected Dreams if you.

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