Lovett or Leave It – "Sauvignon Blanc Nationalist"
Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Jon Lovett (Crooked Media)
Guests: Michael Shannon, Allison Tolman, Robin Tran
Episode Overview
In this energetic and sharply political episode of Lovett or Leave It, Jon Lovett kicks off the new season at LA's Dynasty Typewriter with a packed house and an eclectic guest line-up: actor Michael Shannon, actor Allison Tolman, and comedian Robin Tran. Lovett skewers the week’s biggest (and dumbest) political news—including the latest Republican scandals, fascist "loser" energy, and collapsing DEI efforts—before engaging in lively, funny, and occasionally revealing conversations with his guests about serious acting, sitcoms, Nazis, and banana candy. The episode wraps with warm but wicked audience advice and a vulnerable segment on guilty pleasures.
Key Segments & Discussion Points
1. What a Week – Lovett’s Political Monologue
[00:50 – 19:00]
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The Trump White House Ballroom “Metaphor”: Lovett opens with a scathing and comedic monologue at the absurd news that former President Trump is literally tearing down the East Wing for a ballroom. He uses this as a “metaphor” for the destruction of American institutions under Trump.
“I remember when the idea of Donald Trump tearing down the White House to make way for a gaudy ballroom was a joke. In fact, I helped write it.” — Jon Lovett [01:30]
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Diagnosis of American Decline: Lovett links the present state to a “cascade of failures”—from economic dislocation to right-wing propaganda, and even Disney adults—blaming both systemic issues and personal loser-hood.
“But I want to add another cause that gets short shrift...These people are fucking losers. In their hearts and souls, they are losers and they're mad.” — Jon Lovett [03:30]
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Paul Ingrazia Scandal: Lovett hilariously but pointedly details the racist group chat messages of Trump’s Office of Special Counsel nominee, poking fun at pathetic attempts at defense (“Sauvignon Blanc nationalist”) and the nominee’s mother intervening on his behalf.
“A dry wit that Paul Ingrazia. Very dry. A Sauvignon Blanc nationalist, if you will. That's a great joke.” — Jon Lovett [05:48]
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Republican Incompetence & “Loser Energy”: He expands on the theme, discussing how today's right is insecure and vengeful, staffed by “40th percentile whites,” and obsessed with being aggrieved.
“Bad for our national security. Great for our newest four-star general, a gas station attendant who yelled you got this bro while Hegseth was throwing up next to you, but for some reason not in a trash can.” — Jon Lovett [07:14]
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Liberal “Cringe” as a Virtue: Drawing a humorous contrast, Lovett champions “cringe” activism and the “underdog” energy of democracy.
"What is cringe in defense of democracy if not someone who cares too much and wants too much for you to know how much they care? The price of liberty is eternal. Cringe." — Jon Lovett [12:51]
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Graham Platner “Tattoo” Controversy: Lovett covers the Maine Senate candidate’s struggles, from apologizing for insensitive posts to getting a Nazi-adjacent tattoo covered, arguing for a mix of accountability and grace for people who genuinely try to change.
"If you have a Nazi symbol on your chest for many years, it's a little bit daunting until proven innocent." — Jon Lovett [16:20]
Notable Quote
"It's not that hard to be consistent. We ought to hold people accountable for their words and actions and have enough grace to give people a chance to change." — Jon Lovett [18:00]
2. Interview: Michael Shannon & Allison Tolman
[21:31 – 43:51]
A. Michael Shannon on Nuremberg
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Discovering Robert Jackson: Shannon admits he knew little about his character (Supreme Court Justice & Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson) until offered the part—highlighting the importance of telling historical stories and learning through acting.
“When I read the script, yeah, I was a little embarrassed that I didn't know more about how this came to be…It seemed like an important story.” — Michael Shannon [22:59]
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Acting & Directing: Shannon discusses why actors make good directors, emphasizing empathy for the vulnerability of performers:
"Most actors are in some state of, if not terror, at least insane self-doubt, like, all the time. For me, it's a…common misperception of directing, I think, as an authoritarian thing. I just wanted to help them. Like, are you okay? Do you have a question? Is there anything…Do you want a cup of coffee?" — Michael Shannon [33:19]
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Learning from Roles: He cites Jackson as a role model—someone who saw evil and acted, resisting the urge to settle for easy answers.
"It's very easy nowadays to feel like there's nothing you can do…But this was a guy who never did that." — Michael Shannon [39:02]
B. Allison Tolman on Sitcoms, Hospitals, and Banana Candy
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St. Denis Medical: Tolman explains how personal hospital experiences made her want to create comforting, “wash-over-you” comedy.
"All she could, like, stomach at the end of the day [when her father was ill] were sitcoms…This is where I want to spend my energy—making something that feels good at the end of the day." — Allison Tolman [28:19]
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Blood Gags Gone Wrong: Tolman shares a hilarious on-set story about a blood effect that went full “Carrie” in a sitcom, and how actors stay professional no matter what.
“And then they did it and it went just right in my face…mid-scene…And then we're all like 'echocardiogram and 5cc!'” — Allison Tolman [41:01]
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On Acting’s Vulnerability: Discussion turns serious around actors’ lack of control over how their work is used on film vs. stage, and how both guests value vulnerability.
"Good acting is always really vulnerable work…you have no idea how it'll edit, how it'll come together and play. It's very, very strange." — Allison Tolman [34:20]
3. Robin Tran Joins: Stand-Up, Balance, and the Ethics of Jokes
[47:12 – 52:04]
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Edgy but Ethical: Robin jokes about having a “license” to say things as a trans comic, but admits to the odd dance of being both edgy and responsible on stage and in podcasts.
"I used to go through all this stuff, you know, when I used to care about ethics. I miss laughing too much, you know, that’s why I chose laughter." — Robin Tran [50:19]
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Compliments Lovett’s Nuance: Robin applauds Lovett’s willingness to walk the tightrope between humor, darkness, and social conscience.
4. High Road or Demon Mode – Audience Advice Segment
[52:07 – 62:14]
Lovett, Tolman, and Tran answer audience ethical quandaries, oscillating between heartfelt and delightfully wicked advice.
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Career in Consulting/Climate Science:
Allison: "Now is the time! Be altruistic. What are we doing?" [53:17] Robin’s devil: "Fuck the climate and also fuck consulting…commit crimes." [52:42]
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Honesty About Dad’s Lousy Ex:
Tolman: “You have to wait…before you even join in on being like, that person's a piece of shit.” [54:26]
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Mom Pops By Unannounced:
Tolman (angel): “This woman carried you in her womb…you can't let her just drop by?” [56:32]
Robin (devil): “Let her come—but electrify the doorknob!” [57:14] -
Do I Honk at Bad Drivers?
“Road justice comes with road mercy…there’s an angel and a devil on my shoulder every time I’m driving home.” — Jon Lovett [59:40]
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Losing It When Another Parent Yells at Your Kid:
“The cool move is just like, we're gonna talk about this in the car, but right now, I got your back.” — Jon Lovett [61:34]
Robin: “You should be apathetic about what your kid did and what somebody else did to it. I'm saying it because that's what they deserve to be called.” [61:43]
5. I Don’t Care, I Love It: Guilty Pleasures
[67:13 – 77:51]
Each panelist confesses to a much-maligned passion with zero shame.
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Tolman: Banana candy—even the paper bits stuck to it. “I love banana candy. I know it doesn't taste like bananas, but the thing that it tastes like, I like it. And nothing else tastes like it.” [67:39]
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Robin Tran: Loyalty to Eminem (“even when he got really bad”) and Weezer; love for low-quality and “troll” content as a formative, unshakeable part of her identity.
“I listened to new Weezer and new Eminem—that's crazy, that's fucking crazy.” [71:41]
“If I had a choice, I wouldn't be into these people, you know?” [74:43] -
Lovett: Secret “dry burger” joy—no ketchup, no mustard, just meat and cheese and bread—especially when eating in the car.
“A dry burger lets the meat speak.” [78:07]
Timestamps for Notable Segments
- Opening/What a Week Monologue: 00:50 – 19:00
- Graham Platner Interview Montage: 14:47, 17:45
- Michael Shannon & Allison Tolman Segment: 21:31 – 43:51
- Robin Tran Joins, Comedy Philosophy: 47:12 – 52:04
- “High Road or Demon Mode” Audience Advice: 52:07 – 62:14
- Guilty Pleasures (“I Don’t Care, I Love It”): 67:13 – 78:07
Memorable Moments & Quotes
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Lovett’s Thesis:
“It's a movement of losers. And yes, it calls upon those feelings and qualities in all of us and it spreads because we all have that in us and it can be fed. But while we are governed by losers, we are not a nation of losers. Not yet.” [12:07]
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Tolman on Sitcoms:
“I think this is where I want to spend my energy is just like, making something that feels good at the end of the day.” [28:19]
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Shannon on Empathy in Directing:
“For me, it’s empathy…I just wanted to help them. Like, are you okay? Do you have a question? Do you want a cup of coffee? I want you to feel okay, because I know this is really hard.” [33:19]
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Robin Tran on Edgy Comedy:
“If I was a straight white guy saying this, you would kill me. But I mean, I look like this, I can say anything I want. Like, literally, I can say anything, and I will.” [50:19]
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On Banana Candy:
“I love banana candy. I know it doesn't taste like bananas, but the thing that it tastes like, I like it. And nothing else tastes like it.” — Allison Tolman [67:39]
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On “Dry Burgers”:
“A dry burger lets the meat speak. And that's our show.” — Jon Lovett [78:07]
Episode Tone & Style
- Language: Raucous, irreverent, self-deprecating, and direct—Lovett alternates between earnest diatribes and incisive (or silly) humor.
- Guests: Thoughtful, self-aware, game for bits and tangents, and open about insecurities and process.
- Themes: Left-wing self-satire, political despair with a dose of hopefulness, gentle dunking on everyone, and a warm sense of community embracing all forms of cringe.
Final Thoughts
This episode of Lovett or Leave It is a stellar example of how political comedy can balance searing critique, pop culture banter, and oddball vulnerability. Whether skewering “loser energy” in politics, swapping on-set horror stories, or defending banana candy, Lovett and his guests give listeners permission to care, laugh, and cringe—all in service of fighting complacency and, as Lovett says, “holding space for hope, mercy, and road justice.”