Sedition: Impossible

Summary

Lovett or Leave It – "Sedition: Impossible"

Date: November 22, 2025
Host: Jon Lovett
Guests: Timothy Simons, Pat Regan, Hayley Kiyoko
Location: Dynasty Typewriter, Los Angeles

Episode Overview

In this lively, Thanksgiving-themed episode of Lovett or Leave It, Jon Lovett brings together actor Timothy Simons, comedian Pat Regan, and singer/author Hayley Kiyoko for a night of comedy, political breakdowns, and heartfelt pre-holiday vibes. Mixing national headlines—with Trump’s waning grip on the GOP, political absurdities, and the Epstein files saga—with candid discussions on queerness, family, romance, and gratitude, Lovett orchestrates a fast-paced, supportive, and irreverent live show that both skewers the week’s news and celebrates community.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of the Trump Presidency

• Trump’s Declining GOP Power: Lovett recaps Trump’s losing battle in Congress, public feuds with Marjorie Taylor Greene, and inability to whip votes his way.
  • Quote: “Trump finally became a lame duck president.” (03:35)
• Marjorie Taylor Greene Fallout: Trump lashes out at Greene, threatening to back her primary challenger and publishing online tirades with personal attacks.
  • Lovett: “Trump turning on his allies. Shocking, said Mike Pence, reenacting January 6th with Karen in a length of rope…” (07:00)
• Congressional Dissent: More House Republicans buck Trump over the Epstein Files Transparency Act.
• Epstein Files Released: With Congress nearly unanimous, DOJ commits to releasing Epstein-related files—Lovett and guests joke about the symbolic catharsis and pervasive corruption.
• Trump’s Foreign Policy Escalations: Trump threatens war with Venezuela and the fictional "Cartel de los Solas," drawing parallels to previous political scapegoating.
  • Lovett: “It’s not that far from Trump declaring war on a case of the Mondays.” (10:09)
• Trump and Authoritarians: Discussion of Trump’s continued coziness with foreign autocrats, notably Saudi Crown Prince MBS and handling of Khashoggi’s murder.
  • Lovett: “The problem isn’t that it’s embarrassing to bring it up. The problem is that you aren’t embarrassed all the other times.” (11:50)

---

2. Political Satire & Calls for Civic Responsibility

• Democratic Response Video: A group of Democratic lawmakers post a video reminding military members to obey only lawful orders, drawing Trump’s ire and his calls for punishment by death.
  • Lovett: “It’s the kind of video you wish you didn’t have to make, like a hostage video or an apology for having your wedding at a plantation.” (12:11)
• Trump’s Nuclear Posturing: The dread of Trump's repeated authoritarian threats is met with both gallows humor and serious reminders of democracy’s resilience.
• Lovett’s Rebuke: Urges listeners not to understate democracy’s endurance against authoritarian impulses.
  • Lovett: “Authoritarianism always looks stronger than it is, and democracy always looks weaker than it is…” (55:03)

---

3. Turkey of Truth – Comedy Friendsgiving

[18:25 – 33:38]

Lovett, Simons, Kiyoko, and Regan field banter and comedic Thanksgiving “truths” and awkward dinner-table questions from the “Turkey of Truth”—diving into personal anecdotes, self-aware quips, and relatable discomforts:

• Timothy’s Faux Hawk:
  • Simons: “[I asked my stylist for] an elevated methamphetamine [look].” (20:20)
  • Responds to fame’s weird hair-related aftershocks with deadpan absurdity.
• Pat’s “Normal Gay Haircut” Ritual:
  • Regan: “I say, I want a normal gay haircut. Make me look like the most normal gay person you can imagine. Works like a charm, don't you think?” (21:52)
• Hayley’s Music Release Pressures:
  • Kiyoko: “As an artist, you do one thing, and then the first thing someone asks is, when are you going to do more?...Yeah, soon. Maybe next year.” (22:16)
• Family Consuming Your Work:
  • Regan: “I'm, like, so scared they would consume it...If anyone I’m related to listens to this, I will set myself on fire.” (23:07)
• Sauce Discourse & Political Parallels:
  • Comedic debate over condiments, Trump’s filet-o-fish fixation, and the “shame” of sauce preferences.
  • Lovett: “Ketchup is…It has…It's just like…It's a wall of flavor. Basically, ketchup makes every food kind of like dessert.” (26:04)
• Being Typecast:
  • Simons: “The shit that I get asked to audition for is essentially a photocopy of the things that I have done before. And all the stuff I get offered is the stuff that is the exact opposite…” (27:55)
• Sapphic Romance and Representation:
  • Kiyoko: Explains her new book, “Where There’s Room for Us,” inspired by her own relationship and providing more diverse queer love stories — where "no lesbians die."
  • Kiyoko: “If you allow yourself to dream, you can be who you want to be.” (30:55)
  • Simons, joking: “Eventually all lesbians will die. Like everybody dies.” (31:16)
• Born This Way Debate:
  • Lovett and Kiyoko discuss moving beyond "couldn’t help it" narratives in LGBTQ+ acceptance, especially for women.
  • Lovett: “I like that we’re past the 'couldn’t help it' family.” (32:53)

---

4. Audience Q&A: Holiday Romance (“Surely Somebody Wants This”)

[35:21 – 44:53]

Audience members and guests swap advice on relationships, family holidays, and love:

• Going to the Partner’s Family – Proving Your Worth:
  • Kiyoko: “You do not need to prove your worth ever.” (37:45)
• Romantic Fails:
  • Simons: “I accidentally told my college girlfriend’s little brother that Santa Claus wasn’t real…” (38:56)
• Holiday Breakup Dilemma:
  • Regan: “I was once dumped on Amazon Prime Day. It’s like, don’t dump someone on a day that’s gonna happen every year and that they’re gonna get emails about. The body will remember.” (40:57)
  • Consensus: Break up before the holidays, don’t make memories or guilt-compound.
• Engagements & Rings:
  • Kiyoko: “I proposed to her this year and then she’s going to propose to me…and I really didn’t think this through.” (42:36)
• ‘Considerate’ vs ‘Romantic’ Partner Roles:
  • Prompted by a New Yorker article on throuples; group concludes that it’s healthy to recognize relationship dynamics, with Pat and Hayley trading mutual affirmations.

---

5. Gratitude Wheel

[46:38 – 53:04]

Panelists share non-ironic gratitude, ranging from personal relationships and fans to good barbers, movie theaters, and resiliency.

• Pat: Grateful for a great haircut and his barber Minia—“Now identify as her being a mother figure to me.” (48:06)
• Hayley: “I’m grateful for my fiancée, my fans, and the rain. We needed rain.” (49:46)
• Timothy: For his kids, resilience, and the resurgence of communal moviegoing:
  • “I like that there has been…a return to that [going to movie theaters] in a conscious way.” (51:57)
• Lovett: For the enduring power of democracy:
  • “Authoritarianism always looks stronger than it is, and democracy always looks weaker than it is…We are not easily ruled and will not be.” (55:03)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Republican members of Congress are 100% kids that ate the marshmallow.” (Lovett, 04:45)
• “You meet a charming guy…You have the exact same taste in art, which is no art…” (Lovett lampooning Trump/Greene, 06:58)
• “It’s a vague reference to no actual group…like the Itty Bitty Titty Committee.” (Lovett, 10:20)
• “Much like Elphaba refused to go along with the illegal orders of the Wizard, added Jeff Goldblum. The Wicked promo campaign is out of control.” (Lovett, 12:52)
• “I asked the person who cuts my hair…I was like, can you…give me, like, an elevated methamphetamine?...someone wrote a thing about it in GQ.” (Simons, 20:17)
• “If anyone I’m related to listens to [my podcast], I will set myself on fire.” (Regan, 23:07)
• “If you allow yourself to dream, you can be who you want to be.” (Hayley Kiyoko, 30:55)
• “But eventually all lesbians will die…like everybody dies…” (Simons, 31:16—deadpan humor)
• “I was dumped on Amazon Prime Day. And it’s like, don’t dump someone on a day that’s going to happen every year…” (Regan, 41:10)
• “I think we are more powerful than they are…” (Lovett, 55:24)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Political Recap / Trump & GOP Drama: 02:00 – 13:00
• Comedy Friendsgiving / Turkey of Truth: 18:25 – 33:38
• Audience Holiday Romance Q&A: 35:21 – 44:53
• Gratitude Wheel: 46:38 – 53:04
• Lovett's Final Reflections on Democracy: 53:04 – 56:35

---

Tone and Language

The episode maintains Lovett’s signature blend of acerbic political satire, rapid-fire jokes, and self-deprecating candor. The banter between guests is irreverent and campy, with poignant moments of authenticity, especially in the discussions of LGBTQ+ narratives, family pressures, and gratitude. Pat Regan provides dry observational comedy, Hayley Kiyoko brings warmth and sincerity, and Timothy Simons’s deadpan delivery punctuates the conversation throughout.

---

Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode sums up the week’s political chaos with biting humor and sees Lovett and his panel shifting effortlessly between national news absurdities, personal confessions, and holiday advice. If you’re seeking cathartic political comedy, relatable family/romantic dilemmas, and queer representation—with sharp wit but a generous holiday spirit—this Lovett or Leave It is your Friendsgiving essential.

Transcript

[John Lovett]

Love it or leave it is brought to you by AG1. It's the holiday season and you know what that means. Your routines are all up because you're, you know, you're waking up to make turkeys. Trim trees and turkeys. Isn't it interesting you trim them both. I never thought of that. Well, AG want to let you stay one scoop ahead so that you're getting all your healthy things. Yep, it's busy. You know, you gotta wrap gifts, gotta buy people candles and hats. You're gonna be in a crowded airport, so you better take AG1. So you get antioxidants and probiotics and functional mushrooms. Not my favorite kind, but part of a healthy diet, I suppose. It's dark out, so you get your superfoods. You're gonna have a lot of holiday meals you eat like so get your micronutrients from AG1's full spectrum of them. And also there's a lot of stress in the holidays and these are all things that'll help. It's nice to start your routine with something healthy. If you have AG1, you can, you know, make your day starts well, right? You like, you know, you don't need a bunch of dog over the course of your day. Cookies, you know, loose pumpkin spice. Sure, yeah. Candy all over the place. Drink ag1.com love it. To get a free welcome kit with an ag1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 when you first subscribe. That's drink ag1.com love it. Make your routine include ag1 in the morning so you get, you know, like I, I like making a smoothie in the morning and you have your greens powder like AG1. You have some protein, put some fruit in there, some non dairy milk. Boom. Ag1. What's up, los angeles? Welcome to Love it or Leave it live at Dynasty Typewriter. We've got a great show for you tonight. Timothy Simons is here. Pat Regan is here. Hayley Kiyoko is here. A lesbian. A first for our show. No, I don't think that's right. This is our Thanksgiving episode. So all night we're gonna trot out some truth, stuff ourselves with romance and give our thanks at the traditional wheel just as the pilgrims did. But first, let's get into it. What a week this week. This was the week that Donald Trump finally became a lame duck president. And to show you just how bad things have gotten for him, let me just say that a different way. Trump finally became a differently abled duck. Because woke is back. Can't stop it. It's fine. Here's Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massie on Monday with a message for his fellow Republicans. I would remind my Republican colleagues who are deciding how to vote Donald Trump can protect you in red districts right now by giving you an endorsement, but in 2030, he's not going to be the president, and you will have voted to protect pedophiles. If you don't vote to release these files, the record of this vote will last longer than Donald Trump's presidency. But Republicans don't think in years. They live in the moment, one Nazi group chat scandal at a time. It's called being present. They're alive. Terrible, but alive. Republican members of Congress are 100% kids that ate the marshmallow. You know what I'm saying? Asking Republican politicians to think five years ahead is like trying to convince your dog to drop the raw Thanksgiving turkey it dragged off the countertop because it will give him a tummy ache later. This is not loud noises and fear is the way you're gonna get that turkey back. Trump tried his best to keep Republicans in line. He brought Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert in for a meeting in the White House Situation Room, but couldn't bully her into removing her name from the Epstein petition. The congresswoman said her hands were tied. No, wait, I'm sorry, it says here her hands were tired. Trump even lost Marjorie Taylor Greene. First Nicole. Yeah, first Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban break up. And now this. All of our hottest blondes are in crisis, wrote Trump over the past few weeks. Despite my creating record achievements for our country, all I see is wacky Marjorie. Complain, complain, complain, added Trump. And that's my thing, continued the actual president. She has told many people she is upset that I don't return her phone calls anymore. But with 219 congressmen and women, 53 US senators, 24 cabinet members, almost 200 countries, and an otherwise normal life to live, I can't take a ranting lunatic's call every day. Yes, Trump's otherwise normal life of accepting Qatari jets and screaming about the Epstein files while drinking enough Diet Coke to melt a horse skeleton. Trump also threatened to support a primary challenge, writing, understand that wonderful conservative people are thinking about primary Marjorie in her district of Georgia, that they too are fed up with her and her antics, and if the right person runs, they will have my complete and unyielding support. And so Trump raises the question we never thought to ask is there a worse person in Georgia? Greene said that Trump's online attacks had set off a wave of threats against her, saying I am now being contacted by private security firms with warnings for my safety as a hotbed of threats against me are being fueled and egged on by the most powerful man in the world, the man I support and helped get elected. Babe, you don't have to apologize to us. We've all been there. You meet a charming guy, all right? He whines and dines you. You have the exact same taste in art, which is no art, continued Green. As a Republican who overwhelmingly votes for President Trump's bills and agenda. His aggression against me, which also fuels the venomous nature of his radical Internet trolls, many of whom are paid, is completely shocking to everyone. Trump turning on his allies Shocking, said Mike Pence, reenacting January 6th with Karen in a length of rope in a twisted game that has reignited the fire in their marriage after 40 years. By Sunday, Greene had said she received a pipe bomb threat to her construction company's offices as well as fake pizza deliveries to her home. It's not delivery, it's da proud boys. Green also reflected on the broader lesson in all of this in an interview with CNN's Dana Bash.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

We have seen these kinds of attacks or criticism from the president at other people. It's not new. And with respect, I haven't heard you speak out about it until it was directed at you. Dan. I think that's fair criticism and I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country not.

[John Lovett]

To get ahead of ourselves here, but the second annual Crooked Con lineup is shaping up amazing with Greene and Trump on the rocks. Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin suggested that Democrats tent had room for one more we are a big tent. We must be a huge, vast tent. I say this is a party that's got room for Marjorie Taylor Greene if she wants to come over. We must build a tent so large it is an affront to God. Our tent will be so big. It contains all possible tents, including itself. And Trump's loss of clout hasn't been limited to members of Congress. On Tuesday, Indiana Senate Republicans voted to adjourn until January rather than bow to Trump's pressure to draw new congressional maps. And that's right, we can't rig the midterms. We're on break. Less maps, more naps. Happy Thanksgiving. Indiana Republicans back in Congress with dozens of House Republicans set to defy him by voting to force the Justice Department to release the Epstein files, Trump abruptly reversed course on Sunday night, which is Tricky for him with his weird center of gravity. With Trump's tacit approval of the bill, there was a near unanimous vote in the House on Tuesday to pass the Epstein Files Transparency Act. The only holdout was a mysterious first term representative by the name of EPRI Jeffstein. The Senate unanimously voted to approve the House bill, sending it to Trump's desk, which he then signed. And on Wednesday, Attorney General Pam Bondi said that the Justice Department would follow the law and release its Epstein related files within 30 days. Okay, so two juice are sitting by the beach in Miami. What brings you to Florida? Asks one. Oh, my business burned down and we decided to take the insurance money and retire.

[Pat Regan]

What about you?

[John Lovett]

Our family business was destroyed by a flood and so we took the insurance money and decided to retire. Huh, Said the first old Jew. How do you start a flood? Trump is going to burn the FBI to the ground. Point is, Trump is a lame duck, but the more it looks like his power over Republicans is slipping, the more we'll have to worry about how he deals with feeling cornered and weak. It was true after he lost in 2020, and it is true today. Trump is now threatening war with Venezuela. After 21 lawless military strikes on boats that have murdered at least 83 people, Trump enacted Operation Southern Spear, the largest accumulation of U.S. forces in the Caribbean since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Trump announced that he was deploying two battle carriers, three US nuclear submarines, and a whopping 22,000 pages of Epstein files directly into the Caribbean Sea. And Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the US Would designate Cartel de los Solas in Venezuela as a foreign terrorist organization, making it a crime for anyone in the US to provide support to the group. There is a problem. Cartel de los Solis isn't an actual organization that exists. It's a jokey term that Venezuelan journalists used to refer to military officials who take bribes. It's a vague reference to no actual group or structure like Antifa or the Itty Bitty Titty Committee. It's not that far from Trump declaring war on a case of the Mondays. And he's not just agitating for war. He's seeking refuge in his corrupt dealings with foreign autocrats. Here's Trump at the White House with Saudi Crown Prince and guy who likes to show people his Aston Martin Valkyrie, but can't let anyone see what it actually looks like for him to get in or out of one. Mohammed bin Salman on Tuesday. We've been really good friends for a long period of time. We've always been on the same side of every issue. It's super awkward because MBS is clearly Trump's best friend. But Trump is not MBS's best friend. When Ben Solomon was asked about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, which the CIA concluded he ordered, Trump attacked the reporter for bringing it up. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen. But he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like, first of all, things happen. One moment you're alluring a journalist to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to obtain paperwork he needs to get legally married, and the next, a team of 15 Saudi operatives, including people with close ties to the crown prince, are debating whether it's more suspicious to leave with 10 small duffel bags or three big ones, because things happen. Also embarrass our guest. Bitch, he's not our guest. He's your guest. And he's not your guest. He's our country's guest, which makes him our guest. So it's your house when it's time to build the ballrooms and do the corrupt real estate deals. But then the cameras are rolling and it's back to being our house again. And you're right. A question about Mohammed bin Salman's complicity in the killing of Jamal Khashoggi does cast a pall over your dinner party. But it was always going to be tense when you brought the journalists in for the meeting with the infamous journalist murderer. The problem isn't that it's embarrassing to bring it up. The problem is that you aren't embarrassed all the other times. And as Trump's political nakedness comes into view, Democrats are making sure the room is as cold as possible. Ro Khanna helped divide Republicans over Epstein. We won the debate over health care and the shutdown. And as Trump threatens to deploy the military to more American cities, six Democratic lawmakers made a video reminding members of America's armed forces that they do not have to obey illegal orders from the Trump administration. It's the kind of video you wish you didn't have to make, like a hostage video or an apology for having your wedding at a plantation. This administration is pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us. You all swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution.

[Timothy Simons]

Right now, the threats to our Constitution.

[John Lovett]

Aren'T just coming from abroad, but from right here. At home, our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. Hell yeah. Much like Elphaba refused to go along with the illegal orders of the wizard, added Jeff Goldblum, the Wicked promo campaign is out of fucking control. How'd he get into this thing? The video ends with the phrase don't give up the ship, a reference to the last words of Captain James Lawrence of the USS Chesapeake, as shared by his dear friend Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry, who kindly omitted his actual last words. Owie.

[Pat Regan]

Owie.

[John Lovett]

Owie. It's, of course, a statement of fact. Service members must follow lawful orders and refuse unlawful ones. Surely Trump knows and appreciates this, and he's not going to say, well, we should kill anybody over it. Oh, I'm sorry. Trump on Thursday went on quite a murderous posting spree, describing the video as seditious behavior punishable by death. Each one of these traitors to our country should be arrested and put on trial, Trump said. You got it, sir, said Trump's favorite prosecutor, Lindsey Halligan, cracking her knuckles and typing trial into wikiHow. Trump also reposted a message encouraging Trump to hang them as George Washington would. George Washington was involved with the hanging of one of his bodyguards, Thomas Hickey, for muni and sedition. And I just want to read Washington's warning about his death. He said, in order to avoid these crimes, the most certain method is to keep out the temptation of them, particularly to avoid lewd women who, by the dying confession of this poor criminal, first led him into the practices which ended in his untimely and ignominious death. Good advice then, good advice now. The senators and members of Congress posted a joint statement in response to Trump's threats, writing, what's most telling is that the president considers it punishable by death for us to restate the law. Our service members should know that we have their backs as they fulfill their oath to the Constitution and obligation to follow only lawful orders. Your move, Mr. President. That AI video you're dreaming up where a shirtless version of you with rippling abs kick centers into a giant pit filled with trans immigrants while yelling, this is Sparta. Isn't gonna generate itself. Trump's a joke. He's also a threat. And both will become more true in the months ahead. Look at what he said at the bipartisan McDonald's impact summit, because no matter who you are, everyone loves something at McDonald's. There's always something to have. I like the fish. I like it. You could do a little bit more tartar sauce. So please. Seriously, I hate when I say do you have any tartar sauce? Do you understand that? Yes, he understands that. First, you can choose how you learn. You weren't invited to the McDonald's Impact Summit, but every way hurts the same. Also, you may love the filet o fish, the fish delight, as Trump calls it, or you may hate it, but I can't imagine the flavor engineers at McDonald's figuring out a way to get more tartar sauce onto that cursed fucking sandwich. That is insane. It's like a baseball sized scoop of tartar sauce if you eat one behind the wheel of your car. You have to get a new car and this sick freak asked for extra. This bottomless well of need. And I just want to say to McDonald's, you do not have to follow this order. It is not his McDonald's, it is ours. Don't give up the ship. All right, we'll leave it there. Coming up, it's Hayley Kiyoko, Timothy Simons and Pat Regan.

[Timothy Simons]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or leave it is brought to you by indecloud. You run on cold brew till 5pm Then your soul files for bankruptcy into cloud is the only bailout plan that works. Indecloud is your online dispensary for actual good times. Gummies, flour, pre rolls and more. All federally legal, THC DEA certified, lab tested and shipped discreetly. Basically everything you want without the sketchy handshake. Mystery baggy sleep gummies. Check. Social buzz without becoming a meme. Check. High dose options for when you do decide to text your ex. And $70 ounces, that's cheaper than brunch in LA look I like every once in a while, you know, at the end of the day you got to change your mentality, take yourself to a different place. You know, I got to get this. You know, sometimes I'm. I'm home at night, I'm stressed out. I got the sales team floating in my head. I got to get rid of those people. I got to get them out of my head. I'm sick of seeing them in my head. And so I take a little gummy change your whole mentality de stress helps you go to sleep. They have grape soda with indica for calm and relaxation. They have orange soda sativa for an elevated energy boost. They have strawberry soda hybrid for a mellow, uplifting vibe. Now this is how you upgrade your vibe without the hangover or the wallet regret. If you're 21 or older, go to indecloud.co and use code love it for 40% off your first order plus free shipping. This is indecloud's biggest sale of the year and it runs all month long. Not one of those blink and you'll miss it flash deals. That's indicloud code love it for 40 off free shipping and a little extra breathing room for our listeners. As always, please enjoy responsibly. And thanks to IndyCloud for sponsoring today's episode. That's I n d a c l o u d.co use code love it 40% off.

[Timothy Simons]

It's time to save. The Firestone black Friday and cyber Monday sale is on. Get 15 off all tires and 40 off a lifetime will alignment when you buy two or more LED. Visit firestonecompleteautocare.com for details and more deals.

[John Lovett]

And we're back. Please welcome to the stage the guest of honor at tonight's comedy friendsgiving. It's the festive Hayley Kiyoko. The autumnal Timothy Simons. And the cornbread stuffed Pat Regan.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Hello, everyone.

[Timothy Simons]

Hi.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Which way do I.

[John Lovett]

Come on around.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thanks for having us.

[John Lovett]

I'm so glad that you're here.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

We're so happy to be here on this show.

[Pat Regan]

Thank you for having us.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

What did you just say?

[Pat Regan]

I said, haley, thank you for having us.

[John Lovett]

I am saying thank you to Haley for saying thank you for having us. Thank you for being here.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you so much.

[John Lovett]

Thank you, Pat.

[Pat Regan]

Of course I'm here to help.

[Timothy Simons]

I haven't said if I'm happy to be here or not.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

We'll find out.

[Timothy Simons]

I'm just gonna see how the first, like, five or six minutes goes, and then I'll weigh in.

[John Lovett]

Okay?

[Timothy Simons]

Okay.

[Pat Regan]

Hey.

[John Lovett]

With Thanksgiving coming up, we thought what better use of our three stars?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, wow.

[Timothy Simons]

Thank you, one person.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you so much.

[Timothy Simons]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

To help our listeners emotionally prepare for all the shockingly blunt questions that they'll be peppered with over the dinner table in a segment we're calling the turkey of truth.

[Timothy Simons]

You can't handle the truth.

[John Lovett]

Here's how it works. Here's the turkey of truth.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[John Lovett]

Easy to please.

[Timothy Simons]

The turkey got so many. Such a bigger response than when you said stars.

[John Lovett]

They're excited to see the egg again because they never know what the egg will bring. But it's. It's a turkey right now.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, my gosh. Stuffed.

[John Lovett]

All right, first question. Hey, Timothy, I see you've been sporting a faux hawk lately. Where'd you get that idea?

[Timothy Simons]

Is that a question that's going to come up at Thanksgiving.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Timothy Simons]

Okay. The. The. The honest answer is I think I started doing it before Paul Mescal. So everybody calls it the Paul Mescal, but I think they should call it the Tim Simons. I. Paul Masco would get a much bigger response if here. And I understand that, and that's okay, but I think I just. I asked the person who cuts my hair. I was like, can you. I don't exactly know what I mean by this, but can you give me, like, an elevated methamphetamine? And then they did that, and I was like, this is great. And then somebody wrote a thing about it in gq.

[John Lovett]

Oh, my God. Yeah, they, like.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Then you were, like, on the carpet too.

[Timothy Simons]

Hairstylist.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Wow.

[Timothy Simons]

I had no idea this was happening. And then just somebody was like, hey, here's an article about your hair.

[Pat Regan]

That's unbelievable.

[John Lovett]

Wow. That was.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I'm going to get the fat hawk next.

[Timothy Simons]

Do it. Elevated methamphetamine special.

[John Lovett]

Did you like the. Receive the reception to it?

[Timothy Simons]

I have, yeah. They actually said something in an article about my hair that was like. Like, I had never met this person. And I was. And it sounded like they were my therapists. They described me so well that I, like, sent it to my wife. And I was like, did you talk to them?

[Pat Regan]

But how did you know you want to. You wanted something so adventurous, like methamphetamine.

[Timothy Simons]

I think I was just kind of sick. This is a very supportive Thanksgiving so far. I really like this. I think it was just. I was sick of my hairstyle and just was wanted to do it. Just was wanted to do something.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah. Do you know what I always say when I sit down in the chair?

[Timothy Simons]

What do you say?

[Pat Regan]

Normal gay haircut. I say, I want a normal gay haircut. Make me look like the most normal gay person you can imagine. Works like a charm, don't you think?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it looks really good.

[Pat Regan]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I think a median gay haircut is awesome. Totally.

[Pat Regan]

Right down the middle.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Haley.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, gosh.

[John Lovett]

When do you think we'll be getting new music?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, thank you for asking. At Thanksgiving dinner.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that's right.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Soon. Really? It's so funny. It's like, as an artist, you do one thing, and then the first thing someone asks is, when are you gonna do more? You know what I mean? And so, you know. But yeah, soon. Like, maybe next year.

[John Lovett]

Maybe next year. Yeah.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for being here on my journey.

[John Lovett]

So supportive.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you.

[Timothy Simons]

I just want to say real quick, I'm really happy to be here.

[John Lovett]

We got him. We got him. We got him.

[Timothy Simons]

We got it.

[John Lovett]

Pat, is there a family member that would genuinely hurt your feelings if they didn't consume your work?

[Pat Regan]

No. Most of them, I'm, like, so scared they would consume it. Like, I just. Because I'm like, you know, I like, like. Because I mentioned the concepts of, like, concepts dealing with gay sex on my podcast, I'm like, if anyone I'm related to listens to this, I will set myself on fire. Do you know what I mean? Because I was raised right. I wasn't raised in a barn talking about sex on air.

[John Lovett]

What is so. I. Sometimes I know that the people closest to me can listen to this. Few do. But, like, I know they could. They could. And I know that strangers listen to this. That's great. The people that I. Sometimes it's the medium group, like, the kind of acquaintances or people from my life that I don't see or talk to anymore. Like, that is the thing that sometimes, like, oh, my God, they could hear this.

[Pat Regan]

Well, I suffer from a disease where as soon as I start recording my podcast, I. My memory start. My brain stops forming memories, so I don't remember a single thing I say on that thing.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Pat Regan]

Random people come up and, like, mention something I said. I'm like, I would never say that. That would be humiliating to say. That'd be a humiliating thing to say on your podcast. But I did say it, and now they know it, and they're asking me about it in line for coffee. Isn't that terrible? People are feeling bad for me, but I'm being, like, upbeat and stuff.

[John Lovett]

You know what I mean?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah. Don't ever feel bad for me, seriously, you guys. Especially with everything I have going on and everything I have coming down the pike. It's crazy. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It's crazy happening for Pat right now.

[Pat Regan]

The framing I'm getting.

[John Lovett]

Be mad because you're jealous. Don't be sad because he's sad.

[Pat Regan]

Totally.

[John Lovett]

He's not sad. If you think he's sad, that's wrong. This week, Trump told the McDonald's summit that he wants extra tartar sauce on his filet o fish. Do you agree that we shouldn't be ashamed if we like extra sauce? This is a question for anybody. Which disgusting thing would you publicly demand if you were president?

[Pat Regan]

I. First of all, I will say, like, this is bipartisan, but, like, no one should be ashamed of any relationship they have with sauce, because, like, we all come in. Sauce is sauce, Sauce is sauce, and it's nature but it's also nurture, and it's like, we can't always control how we feel about a sauce, and there's no reason to feel shame about it.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

So.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm gonna very subtly push back on this.

[Pat Regan]

Okay.

[Timothy Simons]

I think the extra tartar sauce thing is fine. I think that's lower down on my list of things that I would bring up if we were to meet. And I think I broadly agree with you about the sauce. But I do think the ketchup on the. On the nice steak thing is bad. I think that's bad that he does make me upset when I hear about it.

[Pat Regan]

That is so classist.

[Timothy Simons]

It's class.

[John Lovett]

It's not classic.

[Pat Regan]

I'm sorry. I can't be on stage if classism is happening, so I may have to leave for the night. If classism does continue on stage, especially if it's being recorded and stuff, I think that.

[John Lovett]

Is it. Is it because he's wearing the monocle or.

[Pat Regan]

No, I just.

[Timothy Simons]

I was going to a live show. I needed to wear my monocle. That's not. That's just what you do.

[Pat Regan]

People of all socioeconomic statuses need to see out of one eye. So.

[John Lovett]

So I agree with that about the sauce, about the ketchup, specifically on the steak. And I. Because ketchup.

[Timothy Simons]

You're a bougie motherfucker. Absolutely. You're a classist, apparently.

[John Lovett]

Hundred per first of all. Yes. But, like, here's my thing about it. Ketchup is it is very sweet. It is very salty. It is very. Like. It has. It just like. It's a wall of flavor. And basically, ketchup makes every food kind of like dessert. Like, a little bit. Like, that's what the sweet does. Just a little bit.

[Pat Regan]

To me, it's so the opposite. But I'm sorry.

[John Lovett]

I mean, I don't like ketchup. Just. I'll just say that right now. I. I'll tell you something. And you know what? You know what? You come at me with your allegations of classism. Raise your hand if you had a McDouble on your way here. So you had a.

[Pat Regan]

Did you have a McDouble with no ketchup on it?

[John Lovett]

I had a McDouble plain, dry.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh.

[John Lovett]

And I.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

That's. That's tough to hear.

[John Lovett]

It's because I'm driving. It's because I'm driving. That is a part of it, but also, I don't need it. I don't need the mustard. I don't need the ketchup.

[Pat Regan]

Well, mustard's psychotic.

[John Lovett]

Well, it's on there. It's on there in some states. It's onions to make onions and pickles. That's it. That's it. That's all you need. That's all you need. Hayley Kiyoko. All right, you know what? We're gonna kick it up a notch. Timothy, do you get typecast as a complete prick since you played such a good one on Veep?

[Timothy Simons]

I would. The honest answer is no. But the weirdest thing is that the shit that I get asked to audition for is essentially a photocopy of the things that I have done before. And all the stuff that I get offered is the stuff that is the exact opposite. It's the weirdest thing where it's like, oh, here's like, a dickhead that nobody likes that says sexually inappropriate things in an office. We're gonna need to see you read for that. And I'll be like, I don't know what else I can do to prove to you that I can do that. And all of the stuff where it's like, oh, this is nothing like anything you've ever done. We've never seen this. Do you want to just come in and do it?

[John Lovett]

Pat, you wrote an episode of Nobody Wants this in which Timothy stars. Did he do a good job saying the words you wrote?

[Pat Regan]

Totally, though I will say did not watch the piece, but I will never watch. I couldn't go back for season two because of a different job. And so I. For some reason, I can't watch shows I work on unless I. Unless I know I'm going back for the next season. In which case, I hurriedly watched him, like a homework assignment the night before the writers room starts. So I would imagine he did because he was brought back for the second season and they didn't recast. And there was a lot of talk of, like, if that role is not working, we'll definitely just recast for season two.

[John Lovett]

And there was a lot of talk about that.

[Pat Regan]

When I saw him in the trailer for season two.

[Timothy Simons]

They invited me on those zoom calls. It was. It was.

[John Lovett]

That's. Hollywood is mean.

[Timothy Simons]

Hollywood is.

[Pat Regan]

Hollywood is not true. We're just joking around.

[Timothy Simons]

That was a. I was playing up that. Yeah, I was playing that up for effect.

[Pat Regan]

And I was lying. I was lying. I was telling a lie.

[John Lovett]

What an interesting person you are, Pat. Really?

[Pat Regan]

Do you think so?

[John Lovett]

You don't watch the things you've worked on?

[Pat Regan]

Well, because it's a weird. I mean, if you want to be serious, it's like, it's so weird. We just were talking about the fact that we didn't work together because it's like, right now in the TV world, it's very rare for writers to be on set. Whereas, like, in the network days that was. They were. The writers and actors were always working together. So it's a strange thing where it's like your entire Life for like 10 to 20 weeks, and you put so much of yourself into it, and then you completely let it go. And then when you see it, it's like this strange feeling where so many hands have touched it since you. Like, since you left it, but your name is on it. And it just feels strange for some reason.

[Timothy Simons]

Huh?

[Pat Regan]

You know what I mean?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

That makes sense.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah. Everyone's crying.

[John Lovett]

Hayley, your new book, Where There's Room for Us, is your second romance novel about women being in love with each other.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yes, that's correct.

[Pat Regan]

Sapphic.

[John Lovett]

Sapphic.

[Pat Regan]

Sapphic. Sapphic, Sapphic.

[John Lovett]

Here's the book.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

There she is. Thank you, guys.

[John Lovett]

You also wrote a book called Girls Like Girls.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I did. There's a theme between the two that's also sapphic.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. And they can. And girls can fall in love with each other.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yes, they can.

[Timothy Simons]

Wow.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

If you allow yourself to dream.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. That's so cool.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

You can be who you want to be.

[Timothy Simons]

Wow.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

And they're not just sort of.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

And no lesbians die in either books.

[John Lovett]

That's cool.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yes, It's. It's an absolute phenomenon.

[Timothy Simons]

Well, I haven't read the books yet, but eventually all lesbians will die.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah.

[Timothy Simons]

Like everybody dies. Like, eventually they will die.

[Pat Regan]

I don't agree that lesbians are immortal. I'm sorry.

[Timothy Simons]

I don't.

[Pat Regan]

I think they're humans like you and I die.

[Timothy Simons]

I don't want anyone. I'm trying to change the. I don't want them to die. I'm just saying, eventually they will. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

They'll pass.

[Timothy Simons]

They'll pass on. Thanks.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thanks, Tim.

[Timothy Simons]

I'm sorry.

[John Lovett]

And they just fall in love with each other in the book?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah. Well, it's inspired. My fiance, who. You met Becca at a soccer game. Women's soccer game. Woo hoo. When I met her, she was trying to hook me up with her younger sister because she hadn't dated women at the time. And so she set me up with her younger sister. Her younger sister bailed, so she felt bad for me, so she went instead. And she didn't look at a blue elephant, but she went and said, and we've been together for seven and a half years.

[Pat Regan]

Wow.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

And so that was the inspiration for me to kind of tell our story through the lens of a period piece.

[John Lovett]

Don't you think? It's like we had to go through the born this way phase of like, gay rights. Yeah. And it was a great phase and produced some great art. But you do hear these stories. It does seem that like, like the kind of whole born this way moment in our politics was A, about more male experience of sexual orientation and then B, kind of a way to kind of convince people, kind of persuade people to be for it. But there is something, so there's something so like bereft in like you have to support them being gay. They couldn't help it. And it's like, couldn't help it. Well, that's not an argument for something. I mean, I couldn't and wouldn't, but like, still, it's better than couldn't help it. And I like that we're past the couldn't help it family.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah. We're on the right track.

[John Lovett]

You gotta get them up, gotta get married. They couldn't help it. That sucks. You know, And I'm kind of glad we're past that because I do think, especially for women, it is more complicated than that. But that doesn't mean anything less about the relationship.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Totally. Yeah. And I agree with you. I feel like for me, I didn't really have a lot of that representation growing up and. And like, even being like engaged, people were like, when's the wedding? What is it going to look like? I was like, well, I grew up not being able to be legally married, so this is an exciting time for me.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I don't know.

[Timothy Simons]

Are you.

[Pat Regan]

You're currently engaged?

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pat Regan]

Oh my God.

[Timothy Simons]

Wow.

[Pat Regan]

When's the wedding? What's it going to be like?

[Timothy Simons]

I don't know.

[John Lovett]

We'll be right back.

[Timothy Simons]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love or Leave it is brought to you by Aura Frames. It's very rare that a gift can keep a family connected, even when you're miles apart. That's why Aura Frames makes the perfect gift to give those long distance loved ones. You could put a bunch of photos in a frame and send it to your family and then it's sitting on the shelf. And then your mother doesn't say things like, it's been a long time since Thanksgiving kind of a thing, you know? Yeah. You can put big events in there, silly everyday things. You could put a picture of your dog in there, put a picture of Tommy's dog in there can upload unlimited photos and video to your frame for free. Just download the Aura app and connect to Wi Fi. It only takes about two minutes to set up a frame using the Aura app. The app allows you to share photos and videos effortlessly at any time straight from your phone. If you want to personalize your gift, you can add a message before it arrives. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag, so there's no gift wrapping necessary. You can even take a whole bunch of family photos and then use Photoshop to slowly shrink one person our frames.com promo code love it. For a limited time, visit or frames.com and get 45 off ours best selling Carver Matte frames named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code love it at checkout. A U R A frames.com promo code love it. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is the best of the year, so order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Timothy Simons]

It's time to save the Firestone Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale is on. Get 15% off all and $40 off a lifetime wheel alignment when you buy two or more eligible tires. Visit firestonecompleteautocare.com for details and more deals.

[John Lovett]

And we're back. Hailey, you have a brand new queer romance novel in stores called Where There's Room for Us. As we discussed, yes, Pat and Timothy, you both worked on Netflix's Nobody Wants this, a romantic show about falling in love with Adam Brody, which I did in the early aughts while watching the oc. Anyway, I'd like to call upon your collective powers to answer our audience's questions about holiday romance in a segment we're calling Surely Somebody Wants this. Here's how it works. We want to hear your questions about burning love in the season of freezing toes. Is it better to break up before the holidays or drop the hammer afterwards? Is he cued to hide an engagement ring and a piece of cake or is that simply a disgusting choking hazard? If you have a question for our guest, please raise your hand and our producer will find you with the microphone.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, we're opening it up.

[Pat Regan]

Oh, my God, we're being mobbed. We're being mobbed. They're storming the stage. Oh, God, I hope I survived this.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Hi.

[John Lovett]

Hi. Hi.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Okay, my question. I am here with my girlfriend. I'm going to her family's house. So this is the second Thanksgiving I've been at her family's house. Number two, what do you think Are the big goals I need to be reaching for the second Thanksgiving? Meeting the parents. Well, how did the first Thanksgiving. Like, where are we at on the meter here? I think the first Thanksgiving went well. First Thanksgiving went well. I can always do better and be better. Why is it on you? Wow. Wow. I just think that's my job. As the guest I'm here to and as the partner, I'm here to prove my worth every time. Oh, I don't think you need to prove your worth.

[John Lovett]

My gosh. Yeah.

[Timothy Simons]

Wow.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I'm being honest. You don't need to. I don't know your situation. I don't know what the family dynamics are. So. Sorry, I just took it.

[Pat Regan]

No good.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah, I just. I went. Yeah, here I am. I'm already in it. I don't know the such scenario, but I'm assuming it went well enough to go back. No, it went very well.

[Timothy Simons]

That's good.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

It went well, right? I mean, listen, most people don't even get to that step, you know, celebrating Thanksgiving with. With, you know, both families. So I think this is an amazing situation, but I feel like you should just be yourself. You do not need to prove your worth ever.

[John Lovett]

Well, that could be true.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Well, depending on who it is. But if you guys love each other, then, like, that's. That's all you need. So I don't know. You do not need to prove yourself. But you're doing great. Number two.

[John Lovett]

Let's go.

[Pat Regan]

But. But I. What I'll say is, if you want to prove yourself.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah, you should have. Sorry, Pat. Should have taken this.

[Pat Regan]

One thing that happened to me one time was I was dating this spy guy and he had just gotten out of like a 10 year relationship with a woman. His. And he was bringing me home. His mom was devastated. Wouldn't leave her room. And then for like the first three trips. But then she actually couldn't figure out how to get Disney on her tv. But she was entitled to it and she mentioned it, and then I helped her get Disney on her tv and then it literally was like a huge win for like, gay rights.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Wow.

[Pat Regan]

So, like, if you can get a streaming service that they were struggling with onto their tv, it will be good for you, I promise.

[John Lovett]

Oh, hi.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I've heard that people learn from each other's mistakes. So what's your, like, worst holiday romance mistake that you made that we could learn from?

[Timothy Simons]

Oh, I. My college girlfriend, I accidentally told her little brother that Santa Claus wasn't real. And the dude, like, looked at me and then just like, doe eyed Looked at his parents. There was like a slow head turn to his parents. And I had to make up some shit about, like, oh, it's just because he died in my heart, but he's alive. And the dad in that family did not like me at all, like, to begin with. And I think that was really. That would, I think, be the worst thing that I ever did on a.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

[Timothy Simons]

I think that's pretty bad. Yeah.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Can't really top that, that.

[John Lovett]

He's gonna find out soon.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

He might be able to.

[John Lovett]

He's gonna find out sooner or later.

[Timothy Simons]

I think the parents would have preferred later, right?

[John Lovett]

For sure. I find the, like, I look as a Jewish person, I find the whole Santa thing deeply strange. I just. I don't. You know, I don't. I don't begrudge anyone their culture, but for me, it's like, why introduce the lie? Because at some point they find out it's not true. And so it just seems like a strange kind of moment in childhood where you find out everyone's been pretending, but it seems like I don't. I find it strange.

[Timothy Simons]

I absolutely see your point. I do think there is something cool about, like, oh, shit can just be magical sometimes. You know what I mean? Like, allowing, like, I know magic isn't real, but I love it when a magician comes up and makes a card appear in my hand and I'm like, holy fuck, magic is real. You know what I mean? There is, like, a fun thing about that.

[Pat Regan]

And you also get gifts in a way where it's like, guiltless.

[John Lovett]

Do you know what I mean?

[Pat Regan]

You're like, oh, no one spent money on this. Like, so, like, it's okay. It's okay. You're not like. You know how sometimes you'll feel like, guilt for getting a gift? Like, you don't have that. It's just like, this is just free money. You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

Oh, we have a question that was submitted. Should I wait. Wait to break up with my partner until after the holidays or just drop the bomb now and get it over with?

[Pat Regan]

Well, I actually have experience with this as I was once dumped on Amazon Prime Day. I was once dumped on Amazon Prime Day.

[Timothy Simons]

Wow.

[Pat Regan]

I was dumped on Amazon Prime Day. And it's like, don't dump someone on a day that's gonna happen every year and that they're gonna get emails about. You know what I mean? The body will remember. It will. Oh, I hate to tell you, it will have kept score.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Pat Regan]

But I think, like, I actually still Think do it before. I mean, don't do it on. Don't do it on Christmas.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I would do it before.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah. I would also do it before because then you.

[Pat Regan]

Because then at least they have the thing of like that thing that's so special in life where your life kind of feels like a movie, where it's like you kind of know what role you're playing, where it's like, oh, it's Christmas and I'm dumped. You know what I mean?

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pat Regan]

That's funner than being like, I'm not sure what role I'm in. I think I'm in a relationship, but clearly this person hates me. You know what I mean?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

You just bought them gifts.

[Timothy Simons]

Totally.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Right. And you can't return them.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Timothy Simons]

When I got engaged, or I guess a few weeks before I got engaged, I bought the ring at this place in downtown Chicago. And the woman right as I was leaving, her advice to me was, oh, don't give this to your beloved on. On her birthday or Christmas because then if it doesn't work out, she can just claim it was a gift for that day.

[Pat Regan]

Oh my God.

[Timothy Simons]

And you won't get it back.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

That wasn't going to work out.

[Timothy Simons]

So anyway, I just wanted to throw that in.

[Pat Regan]

Did y' all do rings?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah, we did.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Well, I haven't gotten mine yet. She's going to. I proposed to her this year and then she's going to propose to me.

[John Lovett]

Uh huh. Oh, cute.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah.

[Pat Regan]

And you don't know when?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

No, but it's kind of harder to be second because, like, I've learned through this process. I'm terrible at like waiting for a surprise.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah. So I'm like, totally.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

And my cortisol levels are up, so I really didn't think this through.

[Pat Regan]

Hell yeah.

[John Lovett]

My cortisol levels, what are they? What are they? So there was an article in the New Yorker by a professor who was in a deeply troubling throuple. And what she said was, in her relationship, she was romantic but not considerate and her partner was considerate but not romantic. Oh, wow. And I do think in couples there's the romantic one and the considerate one. Which one do you think you are?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh my gosh.

[John Lovett]

And they're both. Neither is better or worse.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I think I'm the considerate one. I think I would like to think that I am considerate at times and I feel like I was considerate with her, but I would. When I think of us, she would be the considerate one and also the romantic one. So I actually don't know what I'm bringing to the table.

[John Lovett]

Hey, come on.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

At this point.

[John Lovett]

Well, do you like. Do you do surprises? Do you like.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

No. So she's the surpriser. She's the prankster. She's the considerator.

[John Lovett]

Do you cook?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I can make like, three meals.

[John Lovett]

Okay, all right, all right, all right. Okay.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I really don't know what I offer.

[John Lovett]

Stop it. Well, listen to your own advice about words.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah, like I'm worthy, but like the considering romantic part. I think she gets both of them.

[John Lovett]

Interesting.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah. But I'll think of something that I. I can offer.

[Pat Regan]

I think that.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

What do you think, Pat?

[Pat Regan]

What do you think? I offer so much. You offer so much.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you so much.

[Pat Regan]

Hilariously funny. Gorgeous.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, wow.

[Pat Regan]

I think you are awesome. I could tell that you are considerate just by chatting.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Don't make me cry.

[Pat Regan]

I could tell you're romantic by how you've been treating me all night.

[Timothy Simons]

Oh, my gosh.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yeah. I haven't. I have been very romantic to Patch.

[John Lovett]

I've been basically getting full.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I have been laughing at all of his jokes. It's been.

[John Lovett]

That is considerate.

[Timothy Simons]

Really?

[John Lovett]

Well, that is considerate. That was considerate.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I'm a. You know what?

[Pat Regan]

I am.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I'm a giver.

[John Lovett]

You are a giver. All right, we are back.

[Timothy Simons]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Bombas. This time of year, it's sensory overload everywhere but one feeling. We're still chasing cozy. And Bombas has the sock slippers and basically everything to get you there. I'll tell you a personal story. I'm gonna skip all this copy to tell you something from the heart, which is I was just traveling for a week. I had to go to a family event. And then I did a show in New York, and then we went to CrookedCon and I packed a bunch of my no show socks, the ones I've been wearing for a while. And over the course of the week, I was like, these are. These are the last of my non bomba socks. I'll just confess that. And over the course of the week, I was like, all these pairs were basically worn through to the nub. And so I just started throwing them out. And so I ordered Bombas no show socks to get to my house for when I got back. And they're great. I'm gonna do that right now. I wear the Bombas vintage style athletic socks for working out. Those are the Ones that kind of. I don't know whether they're quarter or half, calf, whatever, decaf, but they're great. I wear them every day to work out. I wear Bombas all the time. They're so comfortable. And Bombas also has slippers and slides. They've got new shapes, new styles, fluffy things, suede things, a little something for every foot. I have the Friday slides, which I also wear all the time. For every pair of Bombas you purchase, Bombas donates one to someone facing homelessness on your behalf. So anytime you're getting something cozy, someone else does too. Head on over to bombas.com loveit use code love it for 20% off your first purchase. B O M B-A-S.com lovett code lovett@ checkout.

[Timothy Simons]

It's time to save. The Firestone Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale is on. Get 15% off all tires and $40 off a lifetime will alignment when you buy two or more eligible tires. Visit firestonecompleteautocare.com for details and more deals.

[John Lovett]

And we're back. Before we get to the gratitude wheel, do me a favor. If you haven't signed up yet, please sign up to be a friend of the pod. We have a 25% off of annual subscriptions through November 30th. Anywhere you are, you can basically sign up to be a friend of the pod. Now we're on substack, YouTube, Apple, everywhere, Spotify. So please sign up. Help us build this company. Help us support progressive media and grow. Really, really appreciate it. It genuinely helps us. So thank you for doing that. And also, there'll be another episode of Bravo America in your feeds on Tuesday, December 2nd with our special guest, Rachel Lindsay from the Bachelorette. Wow. That's huge. That's huge. It's time for a game we're calling Wheelie. Wheelie Grateful. That's where you spin the wheel, and then when it lands on you, say something, you talk about something you're grateful for. It's as simple as that. It's gonna be hard for Pat to choose because he has so many wonderful things happening.

[Pat Regan]

This is crazy.

[John Lovett]

And that's so cool about Pat. That's something I'm grateful for, to be in the presence of someone at such an apex.

[Pat Regan]

At their apex. Yeah. It's wild to be at my apex. It's wild to be at my apex.

[John Lovett]

At the peak. At the peak. Let's spin it.

[Pat Regan]

No, I literally didn't want to go first. I literally didn't want to go first, y'.

[Timothy Simons]

All.

[Pat Regan]

I will say, like, my. You know, I booked. I get my haircut at Fellow. And, like, I usually try to get like, they rank all their people. Do you know about that? They rank all their people. And I never go under a senior Barber three because it can get scary and weird. But then I. I just needed one really quick Senior Barber three. But I was like, you know what? There's none available. I'm going to have to go with a senior barber, too. I had this woman is Minia, who gave me the best haircut I've ever gotten. Don't look at it. I'm this haircut. Everyone's like, huh? But I just liked it. And she was, like, so sweet. And she was like, truly. I now identify as her being like a mother figure to me. And we spent, like, an hour, which is too long. Like, I'm kind of like, in and out, in and out, like, but with this mania. It just hit different. And so I'm grateful for her. I am grateful for her.

[John Lovett]

And it's this haircut.

[Pat Regan]

It is this haircut.

[John Lovett]

Cool.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Beautiful.

[Pat Regan]

Because the last one, it got weird. It was. It was kind of tim. Coated in that. It was like, the last time I went there. I go in last time. I go, I just want a normal gay haircut. He goes, okay, like, what are you thinking? Something Berlin. I'm like, huh? He goes, Berlin. He goes.

[Timothy Simons]

He goes.

[Pat Regan]

He starts looking at her. He goes, to me, this is Berlin. I'm like, why are we negotiating? What's Berlin? I'm not saying Berlin. I don't want Berlin. I'm like, I want a crew cut. But as media, it wasn't like that. She got it straight away.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you so much for sharing.

[John Lovett]

Let's spin it again. Haley, what's something that you're grateful for?

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I don't have anything funny to say. I'm just gonna speak from the heart.

[John Lovett]

Please do.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

I'm grateful for my fiance. I'm grateful for my fans, and I'm grateful for the rain. We needed rain.

[Pat Regan]

Totally.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Is that okay?

[John Lovett]

Did we need it? I don't know when we need it or not. We always need it.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

We have a guy, y'.

[Timothy Simons]

All.

[John Lovett]

We always need it.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Okay, then. Great.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

The hills are a little greener. You know, I love. I'm an Aries sign, so I'm a fire. So anytime, like, there's water around me, I feel at peace. So that's where I'm at right now.

[John Lovett]

Let's spin it again.

[Timothy Simons]

God, I've been so nervous about this ever since we started what you're grateful for? Well, no, I feel like I have a lot to be grateful for.

[Pat Regan]

I.

[Timothy Simons]

My. But kids, I think are good people or they're turning into good people. Everything broadly, I think is going okay. Well, not broadly. I would say most things are in bad. But I can think in my little area. I can point to a few things and be like, okay, we're on the right track here. But I can't think of anything like, super funny.

[Pat Regan]

But.

[Timothy Simons]

So like, the one thing that I can think of is that like I have. I grew up in a very small town and I found like. Like movies were always like a big thing for me. It's why I came out here. I just always loved them. My first job was working in a video store. And I. One thing that I like really kind of love is. And I know we're in the town for it, but like the rep scene of moviegoing, like a community that is like coming up around movie going and actually going to movie theaters, especially from like younger people who probably grew up where everything was just available at home or like they're developing a love for like a communal experience of going to see these things. I think that's really cool. And I think it. I think we. I think broadly we all miss that. I think the world is better when we all go to a movie theater. We go to a theater. And so I like that there has been like a. Like a return to that in a like a conscious way.

[John Lovett]

Totally.

[Timothy Simons]

Shit. I'm glad that went over really well.

[Pat Regan]

Really good.

[John Lovett]

It was really good. And I feel like the dome is coming back. It's slow, but their dome may come back. And I don't know what's going on with the rest of the arclight, but I think it's bullshit that's just been shuttered for years. Sucks. There was somebody made this point that you should treat going to the movies like you treat going to the gym, which is that just go once a week because you feel better after every time. It's like, well, that's expensive. So is the gym. You do it because you feel good. Even if the movie is not that. Even if you don't love the movie, it's still a great experience. Of course. That makes sense. Get out. Leave your fucking house.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

Leave your fucking house. I agree with that. I like that. I like that. Let's spin it again. Again.

[Timothy Simons]

I wonder who it's going to be.

[John Lovett]

It has landed on. It has landed on me. And I just first want to say that I'm Grateful for Pat.

[Pat Regan]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

And his show. Seek treatment. Thank you. Which everybody should check out.

[Pat Regan]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

And a new season of Hacks.

[Timothy Simons]

Thank you.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Oh, shit.

[Pat Regan]

Someone just yelled shut up.

[John Lovett]

You know, there's something that's happened this week that reminded me of something that I think it's easy to lose sight of, and I do feel gratitude about it, which is we're constantly inundated with the ways in which, like, democracy itself is weak to the authoritarian impulse that we see in Trump and all the people around it. We see kind of cavorting crypto tycoons and other nefarious Trump allies, like, basically, you know, flouting their corruption right in front of us. It feels like our institutions aren't doing their job. And that's all true. But I. I think sometimes, in the face of all this, it can be easy to lose sight of what are, I think, two important truths about people and what happens when they have governments. One is that authoritarianism always looks stronger than it is, and democracy always looks weaker than it is. And what we've seen in just, like, the past couple of weeks is no matter how much there is a desire for control on the part of someone like Trump and the people around him, no matter how craven are the people willing to go along with it or how ideological are the people who genuinely believe it, people are people, and the cracks will show. And because it's a system not rooted in collaboration and understanding that human beings are flawed but worthy of dignity and respect and having their judgment heard and being curious about others because that is not included in how they govern, it is weak in the face of those kinds of fissures. And all of a sudden, a fissure will form, and then, boom. Trump goes from having near unanimity, protecting him from releasing the Epstein files, to losing every single person in a single week, he goes from talking about flirting with, being in office for another term to being fully disregarded by members of his own party and someone getting votes by reminding people that he will soon be off the scene. And that truth, I think, is sometimes easy to overlook, and we sometimes, I think, are too bashful and insecure about democracy's strengths. And just the fact that America is a giant, complicated, ungovernable group of rebellious people, and we are not easily ruled and will not be. And so anytime Trump is threatening to deploy the military to our cities, that is scary, and that is very bad. Or anytime Trump is abusing his power or corrupting his power or using the pardon power to encourage some of the worst people who have had his back to do more kind of nefarious and dangerous things. Like, that's all very scary and can have terrible, but we have a lot on our side and we shouldn't lose sight of that. And we shouldn't be afraid to say unequivocally like that his plan will not work, because it won't. And I would rather have us saying that with confidence rather than worry that this is gonna be thrown in our faces. If we ever were to lose, like, what are we afraid of? We should just be confident in it. And I think what we've seen the last, just literally the last week, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be bad, there's gonna be losses, there is gonna be terrible things that happen. It's not a guarantee. But I just want us to go into the next year, into the midterms and beyond, remembering that we have a lot going for us and we are more powerful than they are. And I felt grateful this week to be reminded of that and how the news was unfolding ahead of us. And I think that is our mind.

[Timothy Simons]

About movies was also pretty good.

[John Lovett]

But that's our show. Where there's room for us is out now nobody wants us is out. Seek treatment. You can get it on any podcast.

[Pat Regan]

Wherever you get your podcast, wherever you.

[John Lovett]

Get your podcast hacks. Heard of it.

[Pat Regan]

It's on the streaming service.

[John Lovett]

That's our show.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Thank you guys.

[John Lovett]

346 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great weekend. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, Instagram, TikTok and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free Love it or Leave it and POD Save America episodes, subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign [e-mail] friends love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer. Producer Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our Associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufmann, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre and Suba Agrawal are our writers. Jordan Kanter is our editor, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Cher.

[Timothy Simons]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

Thanks to our designer Sammy Caderna Rees for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers David Toles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video Each week. Our head of production is Matt de Groat, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. It's love it or leave it.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Factories have their own rhythm. Machines hum data flows. But if your systems aren't fully integrated, everything slows down. That's where Verizon Business steps in to help our agile connectivity solutions enable seamless interoperability, giving you real time visibility of.

[John Lovett]

Your systems and data so you can.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Make better decisions faster.

[John Lovett]

That's the rhythm your facility needs to.

[Hayley Kiyoko]

Move your business forward. Learn [e-mail] manufacturing.

[John Lovett]

Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Sriracha sounds pretty spicy to me. Um, a little spicy, but also tangy and sweet. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat. Or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy.