The Autopen is Mightier

Summary

Lovett or Leave It – Episode Summary: "The Autopen is Mightier"

In this episode of Lovett or Leave It titled "The Autopen is Mightier," host Jon Lovett delves deep into the controversial use of autopen signatures in presidential pardons, primarily focusing on former President Donald Trump's critique of President Joe Biden's pardoning process. The discussion intertwines significant political developments, judicial responses, and strategic maneuvers within the Democratic and Republican parties, providing listeners with a comprehensive analysis of the current political climate.

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Trump's Critique of Biden's Pardons

The episode kicks off with Trump’s recent assertion on Truth Social, where he declared that the pardons issued by President Biden to members of the January 6th Committee are "void, vacant and of no further force or effect." Trump bases this claim on a Heritage Foundation report, questioning the legitimacy of pardons signed using an autopen—an automated pen signature machine.

[03:42] Donald Trump: "It's not my decision. That'll be up to a court, but I would say that they're not because I'm sure Biden didn't have any idea that it was taking place."

Jon Lovett challenges Trump’s assertion, emphasizing that President Biden was fully aware of the pardoning process. He humorously remarks:

[03:51] Jon Lovett: "Joe Biden absolutely knew about them. Does he still know about them? That's a fair question, but not important."

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Implications for the Justice System and Judicial Reactions

The use of autopen by a sitting president raises significant questions about the integrity and transparency of the presidential pardon power. Trump’s remarks suggest a potential undermining of these practices, which could have far-reaching implications for the justice system. Lovett highlights the precarious position of federal judges in this evolving landscape, noting:

[06:15] Carolyn Levitt: "I don't care what the left thinks."

This sentiment underscores a growing tension between the executive branch and the judiciary, particularly as Trump continues to express disdain for judicial decisions that oppose his administration's actions.

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Invocation of the Alien Enemies Act and Unprecedented Deportations

A focal point of the episode is Trump's invocation of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, marking its first use since World War II. This move aims to expedite the deportation of alleged Venezuelan gang members without providing them a hearing, a significant departure from standard immigration procedures.

[03:42] Donald Trump: "It's not my decision. That'll be up to a court..."

Lovett criticizes the administration's handling of the deportations, comparing Trump to an unruly bat in one's home—"better to know where the bat is with a bell than to have it loose"—to emphasize the unpredictable nature of Trump's policies.

The episode further details the federal judiciary's pushback, highlighting the temporary barring of these deportations by a federal judge and the subsequent actions taken by Trump's administration to forcefully remove immigrants, including forcing them into a Salvadoran megaprison.

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Republican Strategies and Democratic Responses

Lovett and his guest, Al Franken, discuss the broader implications of Trump's actions on the Republican Party and the Democratic response. They delve into the Republican strategy of using impeachment attempts against judges like James Boasberg—a tactic seen as intimidation due to the high threshold of 67 Senate votes required for removal.

[11:18] Al Franken: "Nobody understands marriage better than I do."

This metaphor underscores the fragile integrity of the judiciary amidst political maneuvering. Chief Justice John Roberts' rare statement rebuking Trump for suggesting impeachment as a response to judicial disagreements is also examined, showcasing the judiciary's attempt to maintain independence.

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Democrats' Communication and Strategic Challenges

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the Democratic Party's struggles with public perception and communication, especially concerning inflation and economic policies. Fremont references recent polling data indicating that Democrats are less trusted than Republicans on crucial issues like inflation, immigration, and the economy, except for areas like climate change and Medicare.

[31:43] Al Franken: "We got hammered for that."

Franken attributes the blame for inflation to excessive government spending during the COVID-19 pandemic, aligning with economic critiques that suggest stimulus measures may have exacerbated inflationary pressures.

Jon Lovett critiques President Biden's communication strategies, suggesting that Biden failed to adhere to his campaign promise of being an interim, transitional figure, leading to a disconnect with voters.

[32:35] Al Franken: "I blame Biden for not doing what he said he was going to do when he ran the first time..."

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Judiciary's Role and Potential Shifts Under Trump Administration

The episode explores concerns about the judiciary's future, especially with Trump’s influence over judicial appointments. The potential for new judges to undermine established norms and respect within the judiciary is a pressing concern discussed by Lovett.

[40:12] Al Franken: "Yeah. So that's gonna be an exciting moment when we go off the cliff on that."

This metaphor illustrates the perceived unpredictability and potential destabilization of critical government functions if current trends continue unchecked.

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Conclusion: Navigating a Polarized Political Landscape

In wrapping up, Jon Lovett emphasizes the importance of maintaining institutional integrity and democratic norms in the face of unprecedented executive actions. The discussions highlight a critical juncture for both parties, with Democrats needing to reassess communication strategies and Republicans potentially veering towards more authoritarian tactics.

The episode underscores the necessity for informed and strategic responses to safeguard democratic processes and judicial independence, ensuring that political maneuvers do not undermine foundational governmental structures.

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Notable Quotes:

• [03:42] Donald Trump: "It's not my decision. That'll be up to a court, but I would say that they're not because I'm sure Biden didn't have any idea that it was taking place."

• [06:15] Carolyn Levitt: "I don't care what the left thinks."

• [31:43] Al Franken: "We got hammered for that."

• [40:12] Al Franken: "Yeah. So that's gonna be an exciting moment when we go off the cliff on that."

This episode of Lovett or Leave It offers a critical examination of the evolving political strategies and their implications for the U.S. justice system and democratic processes, providing listeners with insightful analysis and commentary on the current state of American politics.

Transcript

[John Lovett]

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[Al Franken]

Nice.

[John Lovett]

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[Donald Trump]

It's not my decision. That'll be up to a court, but I would say that they're not because I'm sure Biden didn't have any idea that it was taking place.

[John Lovett]

It'll be up to the judge, who I will smear publicly every day until that judge's wife can't walk from her car to Jazzercise without her head on a swivel. Oh, you think that joke is sexist? The judge is a lesbian. All right. The doctor also a lesbian. On Friday, Trump quietly signed a proclamation invoking the Alien enemies Act of 1798 for the first time since World War II, saying that he would use those wartime powers to quickly deport alleged Venezuelan gang members without a hearing. I don't love that he's learning how to do things quietly. Trump is the potentially rabid bat that's loose in your house. I'm not saying it's good if the bat has a little bell around its neck. I'm just saying it's better. At least you know where the bat is. It raises a lot of questions, who put the bell there? But it's better than not knowing where the fucking bat is. On Saturday, a federal judge temporarily barred Trump from conducting these deportations and ordered the administration to return any planes that had already taken off. Really the only situation I can think of where the pilot announcing that you're heading back to the airport and it's an exquisitely good news. But the administration did not do that and instead shared footage on Sunday of immigrants being forced off of airplanes and into a Salvadoran megaprison. But I guess we should have had a clearer message on the economy, so that's on us. Great question, Whoopi and Joy. I'd lower prices more than Joe Biden, that's for sure. Applause breaks out for 10 minutes. Wow. Trump's border czar, Tom Homan on Monday claimed that the flights didn't need to be turned back because they were already above international waters when the order came through. I'm just gonna flag that this opens the door, specifically the plane door, to extrajudicial murder over international waters, a practice so common in previous conflicts and under earlier fascist regimes, that it has a name. And that name is death flights. And I would have put a sound effect there, but Lazarus said we were using them, quote, as a crutch. But that won't be a problem anymore because Lazarus is on a death flight. Homan also said this. We're not stopping. I don't care what the judges think.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I don't care what the left thinks.

[John Lovett]

We're coming. In fairness to Tom, deporting people without a hearing is the only way he can come. Also, on Monday, the White House shared a video of shackled Venezuelan deportees being forced onto a plane, accompanied by the song Closing Time by Semisonic yeah, Closing Time.

[Al Franken]

You don't have to go home.

[John Lovett]

Don't sing along with the fascist propaganda. I haven't seen a great song defiled like this since the last time I went to karaoke and sang Closing Time by Semisonic. Semisonic, in a statement, objected to the video and said they don't condone the song being used in this way, adding, the song is about joy and possibilities and hope, and they have missed the point entirely. And here I thought it was a song about getting laid after the bar closes. A learning moment for us all. So why would the White House post such a video other than as fascist agitprop for Internet poisoned losers sitting in front of sticky keyboards beneath ceremonial displays of strip mall katanas? Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, no relation, explains.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Are encouraging illegal immigrants to actively self deport to maybe save themselves from being in one of these fun videos.

[John Lovett]

Being in one of these fun videos in fairness. On Caroline's letterboxd, she described the movie room as the perfect date night movie. Weird. Just weird taste in movies. Get the popcorn. The deported Venezuelan immigrants were allegedly members of the gang Trende Aragua. But relatives of at least four of these men insist they weren't affiliated. Again, we learned the dire importance of keeping an updated LinkedIn profile ahead of a hearing Friday. Lawyers for five of the immigrants say none of them received due process, and several of them were identified as gang members due to common tattoo designs before being sent to a maximum security prison in El Salvador. Head writer Hallie has a huge tattoo that says and this is real. Yes, and on the side of her ass. That's right. She has the fucking improv slogan. Yes, and on her ass. She belongs in a maximum security prison way more than those guys. One man had a crown memorializing his late grandmother, while another had a rose tattoo with leaves made of money. We used to have due process. Now our immigration policy amounts to what a white Gen X divorced dad thinks being in a gang means, based on old episodes of Miami. Another man was a Venezuelan soccer player who protested against the country's authoritarian president, Nicolas Maduro last year, and his lawyer said he was allegedly detained and tortured by the Maduro regime before legally seeking asylum in the United States. His lawyer said he was ID'd as a gang member based on a tattoo of a crown over a soccer ball and a soccer media post in which he made devil horns. He went like this. I can't believe this is how I find out that Everybody on my 10th grade field trip to the Liberty Bell was in the Venezuelan gang trend Aragua. It's fucking evil. They kidnap these people. And yet, even as stories of the mistakes being made by the administration make the need for due process even more clear, Trump called for the district judge James Boasberg, who issued the orders putting a hold on the deportations, to be impeached. House Republicans raced to introduce articles of impeachment, making Boasberg at least the fifth federal judge to face a GOP impeachment attempt after ruling against the Trump administration. It's just an intimidation tactic because it still requires 67 votes in the Senate to remove a judge. So it's really just a terrifying waste of time, like a conjuring movie or asking a guy in a fedora what he's working on. That evidently rattled Chief Justice John Roberts, who on Tuesday issued a rare statement rebuking Trump, saying impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision. First, they came for the judges And I realized, fuck, I am a judge. Trump was asked about the statement on Laura Ingraham, what's your reaction to the courts stepping in to make a statement here? They didn't make a statement when Joe Biden, you know, decided to forgive all those student loans.

[Donald Trump]

Well, he didn't mention my name in the statement. I just saw it quickly. He didn't mention my name.

[John Lovett]

It's true. The Chief justice could have been talking about any sitting president calling for the impeachment of federal judges. When Ingraham asked whether Trump would defy a court order, Trump did the weave. Are there circumstances where you would defy a court order?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think that, number one, nobody's been through more courts than I have. I think nobody knows the courts any better than I have. I would say the chief judge does, but nobody knows them better than I have and what they've done to me. I've had the worst judges. I've had crooked judges.

[John Lovett]

Nobody understands marriage better than I do. Why I have more ex wives than anyone. Some of the worst ex wives you've ever seen. But at least one Republican is pushing back. Here's Senator Lisa Murkowski on why Republicans have gone silent. That's why you've got everybody just like zip lip not saying a word because they're afraid they're going to be taken down, they're going to be primaried, they're.

[Al Franken]

Going to be given names in the media.

[John Lovett]

You know what we cannot be cowed into into not speaking up. What's this we shit? Said Lindsey Graham, rubbing a Trump bobblehead with mineral oil. For some reason. This week also brought us an amazing moment from a town hall in Columbus, Nebraska, where Republican Congressman Mike Flood foolishly asked how his constituents wanted to resolve the deficit. Here's okay, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. So your proposal to solve this is to tax the rich, really open the Mike Floodgates? This is neither here nor there, but Mike Flood looks like the kind of guy who went out of print around 1998. They stopped making that addition. Was he a floor model? Did somebody find him on ebay? What's happening? They don't make that guy anymore. If you too would like to go to a GOP town hall and shout at support of democracy, I have some great news. Vote Save America just launched a new push to hold Republicans accountable by connecting you with other voters who want to show up to these town halls or other events Republicans are too afraid to attend in their districts. So go to votesaveamerica.com today. Enter your email and zip code and get connected with state and local organizations near you who want to put these screams to good use. Also, if you are hearing this on Saturday or Sunday, I am in Wisconsin right now and we're campaigning to elect Susan Crawford to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Yes. And to stop Elon Musk from installing a right wing judge who will then shift the court into a Republican majority that will put in place a near total ban on abortion. Will do. Gerrymandering will rig elections. So go to votesaveamerica.com Wisconsin come say hi. I'll be in Madison on Saturday. All day. We'll be in Milwaukee on Sunday. Come say hi. All right. Yeah, sure. Meanwhile, the EPA has presented the White House with plans to eliminate its scientific research arm and potentially fire over 1,000 scientists who provide the research on air pollution, hazardous chemicals and climate change. Looks like we're down to just one experiment. Us.

[Al Franken]

Yep.

[John Lovett]

Donald Trump on Thursday signed an executive order dismantling the Department of Education, though it will ultimately take an act of Congress to formally close the department. It's a depressing executive order, but look on the bright side. In a few years, no one will even be able to read it. Democratic Senator Tina Smith fired back at Trump, tweeting, we know you're just trying to wear us out, but for the record, I am not overwhelmed. My zone isn't flooded. Mine is, said Lindsey Graham. The bobblehead nowhere to be seen. At a party convention on Sunday, a French official asked America for their stuff back. We're going to say to the Americans who have chosen to side with the tyrants, to the Americans who fired researchers for demanding scientific freedom, give us back the Statue of Liberty. First they took Roman Polanski and the most annoying people from college, and now this. Honestly, if they also take our tired, our poor, our huddled masses yearning to be free, I think they could get a deal. White House spokesperson Carolyn Leave at no Relation issued this response.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Absolutely not. And my advice to that unnamed low level French politician would be to remind them that it's only because of the United States of America that the French are not speaking German right now.

[John Lovett]

Ooh, sick burn, sick burn. We did save France from the Germans. For years, the United States resisted entering World War II. Of course, as Hitler's armies marched across Europe and the Luftwaffe murdered tens of thousands of civilians across Britain to cow Churchill into a capitulation that thankfully never came. Even as the America first movement here in the United States, rife with anti Semites and fascist sympathizers fought any effort to lend support to our desperate allies, all the while knowingly scoffing at the hysterical notion that the war could ever reach our shores. Not unlike how President Trump snapped at Zelensky in the Oval Office a few.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Weeks ago during the war.

[John Lovett]

Everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't.

[Al Franken]

Feel now, but you will feel it in the future.

[Carolyn Levitt]

God bless.

[Donald Trump]

You don't know that.

[John Lovett]

God bless. God bless.

[Donald Trump]

You don't tell us what we're going to feel.

[John Lovett]

So there's this federal judge, Trump put him on the court in 2020. And if you look, if a judge was put on the court by Trump in 2020, he's a real fuck. And he filmed this shocking video as part of a dissent. You pull the trigger and fire a round, right? When that happens, it automatically will rack the slide back, eject the round, the spent cartridge out of the gun, it will grab a new round out of the magazine, put that round into the chamber, into the barrel, and it'll be ready to fire another round the next time you pull the trigger. So obviously ridiculous. It's a play for Trump's attention and a spot on the Supreme Court shortlist while basically making himself an expert in the case and antagonizing his fellow judges, who ruled in a different way in a long list of offenses of the last few weeks. It doesn't really rank high, but of course it's only interesting and sensational because it's a departure from a tradition of respect and integrity in our judiciary by judges for the process and for each other. He can do this. He can film a little video with guns. A judge issuing a dissent with guns in his hand because he lives in a system built by people who would never do that. They can threaten the Department of Education because we no longer live in a world where volunteers had to go door to door to find children with disabilities who had never seen the inside of a classroom. Why are they so willing to fire scientists at the epa? Because it's been a long time since the rivers caught fire. Why are they disbanding panels that help make sure that the government releases accurate economic data, which Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick announced last week? Because whatever their designs on manipulating public perceptions of the economy, these people do not have nearly enough respect for the value of trustworthy nonpartisan data or fear of a world where people are starving while the government tells us we've never been richer? How can someone like Lutnick, who got rich in finance, take to the cameras to push a single stock from his perch at Commerce like he did on Wednesday when he told Fox viewers to buy Tesla stock. If you want to learn something on this show tonight, buy Tesla. It's unbelievable that this guy's stock is this cheap. It'll never be this cheap again. I'll note that it did go down after this. Lutnick was able to build his vast wealth in a society that until just a few years ago, had strong laws and norms against brazen public corruption just like that. It's the same reason Republicans can negotiate a funding bill without Democrats, while trusting that Democrats are too responsible to allow the government to shut down because their little teenage political rebellion is made possible by the responsibility and integrity of others, past and present. Caroline Levitt, no relation, gets to stand at that podium and make her snide little joke because people like her lost at the 1936 Democratic convention. FDR gave what is to me one of the great political speeches ever given. It's known for Rendezvous with Destiny, but it ends when he talks about people in other lands who sold their heritage of freedom for the illusion of a living. And here we are, 90 years later. It's happening here. And that's what Trump is selling right now. And his wife is not even a lesbian. FDR is rolling over in his grave. He also was rolling while he was alive, but that was forward and back. This is over. Speaking of Tesla, the company has been forced to recall most cybertrucks to repair a piece of trim that's prone to flying off in traffic because it's just glued on. It's not a cybertruck, it's a sports glutility vehicle. But where Elon taketh away Elon giveth Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore, the two astronauts who have been on the International space station for nine months, returned safely to Earth on Tuesday on a SpaceX vehicle. Due to a paperwork. Absolutely. Welcome home. Due to a paperwork error upon landing, they were sadly transferred to a Salvadoran megaprison, but their lawyers are hopeful to have them back in the US in the next nine months, tops. Yeah, that's a good joke. The astronauts were originally supposed to be in space for an eight day mission, but problems with their Boeing capsule left them stranded for the better part of a year. And that's why you always pack 266 extra pairs of underwear. And finally, startled researchers in New Zealand captured footage of an octopus riding on the head of a shark and nicknamed it Sharktopus. I haven't seen a romance this unnatural since season three of White Lotus. Sorry Lazarus coming up. He's funny, he's serious. He's Al Franken. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood is the most trusted name in sexual and reproductive health and the largest sex educator in the country. Planned Parenthood believes everyone deserves medically accurate, unbiased care so people can make their own informed health decisions. And on top of that, everyday Planned Parenthood organizations are fighting for common sense policies that keep personal health care decisions between patient and their doctors, not unqualified lawmakers. Nearly 80% of Americans want that. The attacks on Planned Parenthood, our health care, our basic rights, they just don't stop. But you know what else doesn't stop Planned Parenthood? The amazing staff and volunteers at nonprofit Planned Parenthood health centers across the country do whatever they can to provide high quality, affordable care to 2 million annual patients. No matter what the nonsense some people in power try to pull, you can help donate to support Planned parenthood@planned parenthood.org protect that's planned parenthood.org protect.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

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[John Lovett]

And we're back. Please welcome to the stage. He's a man who knows how to get a vote and a laugh. And God knows the Democrats need both. Please welcome back to the show. It's Senator Al Franken. Thank you for being here. Welcome back. There he is.

[Al Franken]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Good to see ya. You're in this new Netflix show.

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

The Residence.

[Al Franken]

The Residence.

[John Lovett]

It's fun.

[Al Franken]

Premiered on people's TVs today.

[John Lovett]

Today. I just saw the beginning of the first episode coming here because I was like, oh, I want to see what this is.

[Al Franken]

Oh, well, then you saw.

[John Lovett]

And there you were.

[Al Franken]

There I was.

[John Lovett]

In a hearing room.

[Al Franken]

In a hearing room.

[John Lovett]

As a senator.

[Al Franken]

As a senator.

[John Lovett]

That was cool. What was that like? It must have been so exciting.

[Al Franken]

Well, the sets are amazing. And the whole. The whole show is. It takes place in the sort of the residence. It's called the residence of the White House. And there's a murder. And my senator is there. I'm the chairman of a committee to try to determine whether it's a suicide or a murder. And it's a murder, but my senator wants it to Be a suicide to cover for the, I don't know, the White House for some reason.

[John Lovett]

Interesting. Interesting.

[Al Franken]

Not really, but that part. No, no, it's actually hilarious. Eight shows.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it's really fun. And Kylie Minoga's in it.

[Al Franken]

She sings in it. Yes, she is in it.

[John Lovett]

Did you talk to her?

[Al Franken]

I did not. I was not in that. I was in the hearing room at the time. Uzo Aduba. Do you know Uzo?

[John Lovett]

Oh, yeah, she's been on this show.

[Al Franken]

She is the star of this show.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, she's.

[Al Franken]

And she's absolutely amazing.

[John Lovett]

She was like the detective, right?

[Al Franken]

She is the detective. Cordelia Cupp.

[John Lovett]

That's a fun name.

[Al Franken]

Yes. There's great names in this.

[John Lovett]

What's your name in it?

[Al Franken]

Senator Aaron Filkins.

[John Lovett]

Ooh, Filkins. That's a fun name. Filkins.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, Filkins. The names in this are really good. But anyway, no, Uzo is remarkable. There's a scene in the last episode in which she basically has a 30 minute monologue.

[John Lovett]

But don't spoil it for them.

[Al Franken]

Well, I wasn't going to.

[John Lovett]

You're right. I don't know why I doubted you.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, what was I gonna do? Say who the murderer was?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, don't do that. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And it is a murder, not a suicide.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

Did he have any flashbacks? Having to talk to Ted Cruz?

[Al Franken]

Did I have any. No, I didn't. You know, it was funny. The first stage note for my character was avuncular. So I thought of colleagues of mine who had been avuncular, like Lamar Alexander of Tennessee. A buncular. Let's see, who else did I think of? Oh, Chuck Grassley. Oh, yeah, avuncular.

[John Lovett]

You know, Orrin Hatch died and I went in my email and I searched for his name for some unrelated reason, and it turns out that he had emailed me before he died because I had shown an interest in ending daylight saving time. Well, actually going to permanent daylight saving time, which is something that he was in favor of. And he had sent me an email about it saying that he agreed I missed it. Dead. But he's avuncular is all I was getting at.

[Al Franken]

He was avuncular.

[John Lovett]

Did you know him?

[Al Franken]

I did, of course. Yeah, we served. We wrote a song together. Oh, he used to write songs. And I had a song that we teamed up on. Wasn't great.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Al Franken]

Who else is avuncular? Or Lindsey Graham could be avuncular.

[John Lovett]

So anyway, we're in a constitutional crisis.

[Al Franken]

Yes, yes.

[John Lovett]

Just something we should probably get to. I was chuckling about it Backstage. But I feel like there's this sort of strange. There are these two things happening side by side. On the one hand, Trump is doing these extraordinarily dangerous things, strange and kind of unprecedented things, whether it's what he's doing to our allies in Europe or what he's now doing with these sort of.

[Al Franken]

What he's doing to Ukraine.

[John Lovett]

What he's doing to Ukraine.

[Al Franken]

I mean, that is just unbelievable. He switched sides when he said to Zelensky, you don't have the cards. The number one card was us.

[John Lovett]

Right?

[Al Franken]

And so he's basically saying, I'm taking away the card. And that is just a travesty.

[John Lovett]

And so there's. So I want to understand what you think we should be doing to respond to that, because what I often see are Democrats in what is sort of a classic vice grip of dealing with a rising authoritarian menace, which is they believe in the institutions. They're trying to prove that those rules and institutions can work by following them, but they're dealing with someone that doesn't care about the rules. We'll use them when they're useful, we'll break them when they're not. And I wonder if you just have an overall sense of how you think Democrats should be fighting back.

[Al Franken]

I think Democrats should be fighting back by taking every chance they can to. Well, they could have, for example, made them go over the cliff on the.

[John Lovett]

On the continuing resolution.

[Al Franken]

On the continuing resolution.

[John Lovett]

So let's. I'm curious. So you think that was the. You think they should have stuck together and said. I mean, that's what Nancy Pelosi has said. Others have said that.

[Al Franken]

Well, Pelosi said that she always got something. If you give something up, you always get something. And Schumer didn't get anything for giving up.

[John Lovett]

So then what do you make of the. Which is. Look, I think this is a genuinely hard question, though I come down where you are. What do you like? The Chuck Schumer response to that is they didn't negotiate with us, but they know, correctly, that a shutdown would be devastating, that Democrats care more about the consequences than Republicans do, and it would accelerate what Trump and Elon want to do to dismantle the government anyway. They could turn that shutdown into a win and there would be no off ramp.

[Al Franken]

That's one way to look at it.

[John Lovett]

But what's the response to that? What's the response to that? We live in the world. This was why I feel like Schumer's getting a ton of blowback. And I think it's rightfully so that he does, but it's in the luxury of the world where we didn't have the shutdown by a bunch of people saying, he should have fought harder. But, like, if we were in the shutdown right now and we didn't know how to get out of it, it might not be so obvious.

[Al Franken]

Well, I see your point, but I just think that we have to show that we can fight. And I think that by just giving him the. Giving them the votes. We didn't do that.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. How much of it do you think is not. Just obviously in the final moments, there was a binary choice, do we give them the votes or not? How much do you think was in the expectations and strategy leading up to that? What do you think they should have been doing differently before we ever got to that vote?

[Al Franken]

Well, it should have been negotiating and saying, we'll give you something for our votes. That's usually how these things work. That's what Pelosi was basically saying. She doesn't give up something unless she gets something.

[John Lovett]

But they do think that's what they were doing. Right. Like, there was a bipartisan process that Patty Murray was running in the Senate, and I guess the hope was if a House bill couldn't pass unanimously among the Republicans, then that would have come to fruition. But once Trump kind of.

[Al Franken]

But once the House bill did pass among. They didn't think the Republicans would pass it.

[John Lovett]

Right. So they just didn't have a. They didn't have a plan.

[Al Franken]

They didn't have a plan B. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Well, that was a mistake then.

[Al Franken]

Gotta have a plan B. Gotta have a plan B.

[John Lovett]

So polling basically shows an overarching problem for Democrats that our national brand is very bad. There's just new data came out. David Shore wrote about it in the Times, talked about it with Ezra Klein, that across a broad swath of issues, Democrats are less trusted than Republicans, except on a very few issues, like climate change, mental health, Medicare. There was a few, very few issues. Set of issues where we got. But. But on a host of other issues. Inflation, immigration, affordability, housing, the economy. Republicans have us beat. What do you make about that? What do you make of that? How did the Democratic brand become so toxic? And what do you think about figuring out a way out of it?

[Al Franken]

Well, obviously on something like inflation, the peak inflation at 9.1%, that kind of killed us for it, you know.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, we got hammered for that.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, we got hammered for that. That happened for all kinds of reasons, one of which was that we probably paid out too much money during the.

[John Lovett]

During COVID They're never gonna agree with you on that. They're like, shut up. Hey, Al Franken, shut up.

[Al Franken]

Well, I think, I think that, you know, Summers said that we were doing that, and I think we did. I think we got inflation because of it.

[John Lovett]

How much do you think we paid for having, like, how much of a price was the fact that Joe Biden in the final two years of his term, had become such a terrible communicator?

[Al Franken]

Well, I, you know, I, this is an easy thing to do, but I blame Biden for not doing what he said he was going to do when he ran the first time, which he said he'd be an interim transitional figure. Yeah, figure. And he obviously was beginning to fail. And I don't know, everybody here experienced that first debate and why he didn't pull out after that, I don't know.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I also wonder, I mean, I don't know what you think about this, but obviously Joe Biden, we paid a price for having the bully pulpit basically empty. But I also wonder, too, that a lot of the Democrats who might become presidential candidates are people that sat out and didn't challenge Joe Biden during that time because they thought it was too risky, that they kind of didn't want to pick that fight. And I wonder if you think Democrats pay a price now for having been a part of. Look, I think everybody was making the best choice they could given that Joe Biden was still in the race and nobody had challenged him. But collectively, the country saw leading Democrats all get behind someone that with their own eyes, they thought wasn't up to it.

[Al Franken]

I don't think that they knew that he wasn't up to it. I don't think they saw that until they saw it at that debate. I really thought, I remember talking to someone who is a very highly thought of Democratic, someone who advises candidates and is very good at this, saying that they couldn't wait to that debate where Biden would show what he was and kick Trump's ass. And. But then we, we saw the first three seconds of that and then the rest of that debate and we just were flabbergasted.

[John Lovett]

Wasn't that a wild night? Remember that? Watching it, you're just like this. It was really surreal. You couldn't believe what you were seeing.

[Al Franken]

My wife and I were just, you know, distraught. I mean, it was. That was the election right there.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. For me, I'll tell you, it was different. For me, I would say I was distraught for the first 30 minutes. Then I was a little bit numb in the last 30 minutes, I was like, well, this is not gonna work. You know, we're gonna get a change. It was so bad. It became something else, became vaguely exciting.

[Al Franken]

You thought that he would drop out?

[John Lovett]

Yes, of course. Because of what we saw with our eyes.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. It was shocking that he didn't, like, the next day go, yeah, I'm out of here.

[John Lovett]

Everybody remember when Jill Biden had to come out after and say how great a job he did? That's how, you know, you have found the right person. That's a good marriage. I do. I mean that, you know, that's what you want. You want to fuck up so bad in front of the whole country, then have your wife come out and be like, honey, way to go. You fucking did it. You're great. Were you. You never. You're not somebody that breaks.

[Al Franken]

I do break sometimes.

[John Lovett]

Huh. Huh? How is that? SNL 50.

[Al Franken]

Oh, that was great.

[John Lovett]

You think there'll be another 50?

[Al Franken]

Well, it would have to. I don't think Lorne can do another 50.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Al Franken]

If that's what you mean.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. It's amazing to do 50.

[Al Franken]

It's amazing to do 50. I was there. I was one of the original writers.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And, you know, I remember Tom Davis. I don't know if you remember Tom Davis. Franklin and Davis were this comedy team, and we were two of the original writers. And I remember as soon as we got there and met the other writers, met some of the cast, and I just said, tom, this is going to be a big hit. And he was. He went, yeah, right. And I just knew it was going to be a big hit because of the. Our generation had never had a chance to be on. On tv. And so this was. And we had, you know, we had Belushi, we had Ackroyd, we had Gilda, we had Jane and Lorraine, we had Chevy, we had Garrett. That was it. We had seven cast members. If you think about it now, think about how many cast members. Do you watch the show now? Yeah, yeah. They're like, I don't know, 17, 18 cast members and featured players.

[John Lovett]

Not since John Belushi dined alone.

[Al Franken]

Have a genius.

[John Lovett]

Something like that.

[Al Franken]

Something like that. It's a Thomas Jefferson.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. So Thomas Jefferson. Dining alone.

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

I don't like Thomas Jefferson. I'm not. I think he's overrated.

[Al Franken]

He wrote the Declaration of Independence.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. And I think he gets. He definitely gets the credit for that. For sure.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

I just.

[Al Franken]

Explain yourself.

[John Lovett]

So I think he's like, temperamentally very French. And he had a. There was a moodiness to him and a kind of like. There was a kind of like, hypocritical egotism to the whole thing. And obviously a slaveholder. And there was a really.

[Al Franken]

Well, he. Yeah. And had a romance.

[John Lovett]

Well, that's a thing, you know, in the history books written by the kind of people that wrote history books when they were writing those history books. It's a romance. Also, he operated a nailery in which children had to make nails all day. And so it's like he wasn't just like a slave owner.

[Al Franken]

Yes, I did not know that.

[John Lovett]

Not just a slave owner. He was, like, into it. He listened to it. Look, there's no. I think. And just to be clear, just because people will see this on the Internet, no good way to be a slave owner.

[Al Franken]

That's right. That's right. I agree. I'm with you on that. A nailery.

[John Lovett]

A nailery where they make nails. Sweltering hot. Hot. It's like they make the nails.

[Al Franken]

Kids, how do you make nails?

[John Lovett]

You get metal very hot. And then after that, it's something about the small hands, I think. I don't know.

[Al Franken]

Okay, okay. We're learning stuff here. Right.

[John Lovett]

Do you have any other things you want to talk about?

[Al Franken]

Well, there are a few things I wanted to talk about. Let's see. Did we do the reconciliation bill that'll be coming up?

[John Lovett]

Oh, well, so the next fight will be reconciliation. Yeah, we've now had the C.R. the C.R. takes us through September. Now, that's a bill that required 60 votes in the Senate, which is why Democrats had a say in it. But now we're going to have a reconciliation bill that Republicans can negotiate without Democrats at all.

[Al Franken]

You can do that with 50 votes?

[John Lovett]

Because they can do that with 50 votes in the Senate. This will be the vehicle for them to cut Medicaid, potentially cut Social Security.

[Al Franken]

But this is to. There's a debt ceiling.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

And they have to do something about it.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

And I worry about Republicans who think that. Well, there's nothing wrong with going over the cliff.

[John Lovett]

Yes, I worry about that, too.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Because, you know, we're the reserve currency of the world, and if we did that, I don't think we would be anymore.

[John Lovett]

But that's why we bought all that crypto. Remember, we were talking about that backstage. We're big crypto guys. It's dollar sign. Franken, Franken coin.

[Al Franken]

I actually don't get crypto, and I never have.

[John Lovett]

Oh, bunch of people missing the train Applauding?

[Al Franken]

I don't think so.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. No, the debt ceiling, it's a bad deal, for sure.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. So that's going to be an exciting moment when we go off the cliff on that.

[John Lovett]

So you just want to warn people about it, huh? So you're just worried about it?

[Al Franken]

I'm worried about it and warning people about it. And I just want to make sure that the Republicans don't go off the cliff.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, well, some of the Republicans know this. Now, this is. This is where you get back to the problem with supporting the cr. Because what Republicans have relied on for as long as I've been in politics is knowing that when push comes to shove, even though they won't have the vote amongst Republicans to raise the debt ceiling, because there are Republicans that have never in their entire careers ever voted to raise the debt ceiling, they can get enough Democrats to do the responsible thing to make sure that we don't hit the debt ceiling. That's what's happened every time in the past. But right now, what they're talking about is a reconciliation bill to cut taxes by trillions of dollars for billionaires and cut a bunch of services. If they add the debt ceiling to that, they're not gonna get Democratic votes for that.

[Al Franken]

Well, the whole point of these cuts in Medicaid of, what is it, $885 billion over 10 years, it's just so that you can do tax cuts for the richest people in the country. And it's just sick.

[John Lovett]

It's sick.

[Al Franken]

It's sick.

[John Lovett]

You know that the day that you started air, I've told you this before, but I'll tell you again. I don't care. I bought a radio to listen to Air America Radio so that I could listen to your first episode of Air America Radio.

[Al Franken]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

I got a piece of pizza at 43rd and 11th, and then I put the batteries in the radio and I listened.

[Al Franken]

Wow, you are a nerd.

[John Lovett]

It was a.

[Al Franken]

But that's. So am I. So I'm a political nerd, too.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. So there you are.

[John Lovett]

Senator Al Franken, everybody. The residence is on Netflix. Al's gonna stick around. We'll be right back with Asuka Okadsuka. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast, but with better help online Thera, you can save on average up to 50% per session. With better help, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on costs and on time. Therapy can feel like a big investment. But the state of your mind is just important as your physical health. You know, you're. You're paying to go to the gym. You're paying for those boutique fitness classes. Boutique? How about some boutique mind classes? Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental health is worth it. And now it's within reach. Look, I've benefited from therapy. We're the therapy boys. We've talked about that.

[Al Franken]

We're the therapy boys.

[John Lovett]

With over 30, 000 therapists, better help is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus switch therapist at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com love it. To get 10 off your first month. That's better help. H E L p.com love it.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today. Restrictions apply.

[John Lovett]

Please welcome to the stage Atsuko Kotzka.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Hello. Hi. Hi. Thanks for being here.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Hello, beautifuls. Hello. Hi. Hello. An honor. Hi. How's it going? Hey.

[John Lovett]

So good to see you.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Good to see you too. It's been so long.

[John Lovett]

It's been so long. In fact, I know we know the last time we saw each other because last time we saw each other, I left my jacket at your house.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes. And I've been talking about it forever. And I forgot it today too.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes. To bring it. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Eight months ago I said, oh, I'll pick it up next week.

[Carolyn Levitt]

And then you were in like Survivor.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

No, but yes. Yeah. It was a long time ago.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, time.

[John Lovett]

It's good to see you.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Great to see you too.

[John Lovett]

And you have a Hulu special.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes, I do have a Hulu special coming out in June. Disney internationally. Yes.

[John Lovett]

Nice.

[Al Franken]

Maybe if I say I saw your last special.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you so much for watching.

[Al Franken]

I saw your last special and was terrific.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you.

[Al Franken]

And I saw it with my daughter and her 11 year old son who loved it.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. That's the thing. A lot of children, a lot of parents have their children Watch my shows. And I'm like, I'm not. I think because they're like, oh, look at her haircut. She's so family friendly. So wholesome. Like 6 year olds will be at my shows and I'm like, I'm not wholesome. My family is Parasite, the movie. Okay. There is mental illness. There is, you know, undocumented immigrants, you know, there's all kinds of stuff going on.

[John Lovett]

Magical rocks.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Magical rocks. What is the. What is magical rocks? Oh, was that in.

[John Lovett]

That's in Parasite.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, I don't know.

[John Lovett]

Magical rock.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I don't remember that part. Was that a calming part? Was that a calming part in the movie? Do you. Did you watch Parasite?

[Al Franken]

I also watch Parasite and also don't remember that.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I remember. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

No, there's like a stone that has properties. Am I crazy?

[Carolyn Levitt]

That's the part you took away from a movie where there's murder and. Right. People having to run away. We're talking the same parasite, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

No, for sure.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Like the Korean family.

[John Lovett]

Uh huh.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. No, we all take away from things, different things, you know, and. Right. Yes, yes, yes.

[John Lovett]

We have stones imbued with. It has properties.

[Carolyn Levitt]

That's right. Hey, that's right.

[John Lovett]

So you filmed your special on November 9th?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes, I did. Yes. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And that was an interesting time.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It was, it was. I said, why me? You know, who's. It's like. Everyone was like, well, this will be good, you know, because people will need it. I said, yeah, people will. How about my feelings? Who's making the comedian laugh?

[John Lovett]

You're Pagliacci.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, I know, exactly.

[John Lovett]

Whatever.

[Carolyn Levitt]

That's right. That's right. Do you know this story? Yes.

[John Lovett]

Not everybody, but Pagliacci. Yeah. Thank you. What is going on tonight?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you. It's an education.

[John Lovett]

Very interactive.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Pagliacci. I never know whether to say it correctly or like trash from Long island. Because I want to say Pagliachi. You know what I mean? Like, I want to say it Long island style.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. Pagliacci.

[Al Franken]

Who are we talking about?

[Carolyn Levitt]

He's a clown. It's another subplot in Parasite he keeps bringing up. No, and so. Yeah, but honestly, election week, you know, so it happened on Tuesday, Right? The elections. And I was shooting my special on Saturday. But honestly, do you remember that week? Like every day since after the elections, it felt like four weeks had passed.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

So it actually worked to my advantage. Like people had forgotten by the time Saturday rolled around. Or like, they were like, we do not want to talk about it, you know? Yeah.

[John Lovett]

So I loved your previous special.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Which was a lot about your. I've seen. I now don't know if I'm confusing specials, but this was special. A lot about your mother.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I was gonna say rocks or stones? Magical stones. No. Yes, it's about my mother. Yes, it's about my mother. About an intruder that came to her house.

[John Lovett]

Yes, the intruder.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Three times in the same day. Y. There was an intruder that came to my house three times in the same day. So I made that, like, the three acts and then in the end, how we ultimately, like, fought him off or. Yeah, this is special.

[John Lovett]

How did you figure out what to talk about in this special if you couldn't rely on somebody trying to break into your house?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I know, right? Right. That's why comedians are always like, oh, I gotta go and bungee jump, or I gotta go to Peru to find stories.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, but some people go on reality shows.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It's crazy, right? And I don't blame you, but sometimes your family has enough secrets. Like I said, my family's parasite, the movie, and that there was always more to uncover. I found out my grandma had technically kidnapped me when I was a kid. My grandma's my best friend. She raised me, and Ira Glass helped me figure out the truth this year. And so that's in my new special.

[John Lovett]

He's a good person to go to for that kind of a thing. He's very soothing voice.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Very soothing voice. Very nonjudgmental. He'll just say it to you like it is, you know, with. He'll just. He just. He just was like, well, I did the research at school, and your grandma did technically kidnap you, and you could still press charges if you want, is what he said. Very helpful, very calm, you know? Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Huh?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Right. I'm not going to.

[John Lovett]

No. No. Okay. You like. You like your grandma.

[Carolyn Levitt]

She's my best friend. Yeah, right.

[John Lovett]

So why would you want to do that?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And what for? Money? Her money is my money. This does pay, right? I told her.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay. I mean.

[John Lovett]

Now, in the time we've taken up to catch up with Atsuko, more and more news has happened, which is why we're going to quiz both of you about this week's news and the other headlines we maybe haven't covered yet. In a segment we're calling News it or Lose It.

[Al Franken]

Is that a recurring feature?

[John Lovett]

If we do it a second time, it will be.

[Carolyn Levitt]

So we gotta make it good.

[John Lovett]

So it's really.

[Al Franken]

There was cheering for it.

[John Lovett]

I thought they're just. Well Trained. Question number one. Which famous baseball player and civil rights icon did the Trump administration delete from the Department of Defense website this week, adding the letters DEI to his page's URL?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wow.

[Al Franken]

Enola Gay.

[John Lovett]

That's a good guess because they did remove Enola Gay from the Department of Defense website because it had the word gay in it.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

It was just an oopsie.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It's so hard to keep up. I mean, we can just name anyone right now. Oh, well, we've already lost. I see the sad face. Okay, nevermind.

[John Lovett]

The correct answer is Jackie Robinson. He served in the army during World War II. The White House subsequently reinstated Robinson's page on Wednesday, with a Pentagon press secretary telling the press, everyone at the Defense Department loves Jackie Robinson.

[Al Franken]

We made a mistake.

[John Lovett]

No, they didn't get. They didn't. Wait, let's not go crazy. Next question. Governor Gavin Newsom sent what to approximately 100 California CEOs, including tech leaders, along with a note that said, if you ever need anything, I'm a phone call away.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Al, this is on you. I'm here to.

[Al Franken]

Enola Gay.

[John Lovett]

No. Did not send the World War II bomber. The Enola Gay, the decommissioned World War II bomber that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

No, it was a burner phone.

[Carolyn Levitt]

What a.

[John Lovett]

It was a burner phone just to say, hey, call me, you know, he's available, I guess.

[Al Franken]

Okay. So he gave each of them a burner phone.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

I think it was like a bit.

[Al Franken]

I see.

[John Lovett]

To say he's like, you can reach him, you know, because he cares about business.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You think you know someone.

[John Lovett]

Now, Atsuko, I do have a question for you, which is, where are you with phones? Are you ready to switch to a flip phone? Are you sick of the phones?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I am not sick of the phones. I'm actually. Yeah. I'm actually kind of pro cell phone addiction a little bit. Because, you know, like, it's. What's the alternative? Your own brain and your thoughts, you know, and so that's. That's terrifying. And so. Right. Because the depression commercials are always like. People are like, I'm depressed. And the commercials, but none of them have a phone in their hand. What are these people with depression in the commercials? What are they doing? They're always outdoors, getting lost in a park. Yes. Someone give them a phone. Yes. But flip phones. Yeah. That counts. Words. It's still distraction.

[John Lovett]

I like my phone, too. Although I think it's bad for me. Next up, during his unhinged trip to the Kennedy center this week, Donald Trump raved about Betty Buckley's performance in what famous Broadway musical? Ooh, I'll provide a hint.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay. All white cast.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, probably.

[Carolyn Levitt]

But no, I'm just thinking. But that's already a lot of musicals.

[John Lovett]

It's a kind of musical where you'd make a lot of memories.

[Carolyn Levitt]

A lot of memories. Memory Cats.

[John Lovett]

Correct.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, he likes Cats.

[John Lovett]

He likes Cats.

[Carolyn Levitt]

He is unhinged.

[John Lovett]

He also has previously talked about. We've talked about this on the show that he's previously talked about Music man, and that's a musical about a con artist who comes to a small town, inspires them with a vision of a more perfect past, and then ultimately to try to steal from them, but then has a kind of an awakening. And I don't really remember the details, but isn't that interesting that Donald Trump's. One of his favorite musicals is a musical about a con artist?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, I don't think he's very.

[John Lovett]

It makes sense, but he's not really self aware.

[Al Franken]

It's a great musical, though.

[John Lovett]

Sure. Yeah, yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Music man or Cats? Which one? If you had to watch one for the rest of your life, Music Man. Music Man. It's got a plot, but Cats is, like, unexpected. Every time for me, I've watched it, and every time I'm still like, aghast. Like. What? What? What do you mean? And so I like that surprise element of Cats every time, you know?

[John Lovett]

Okay, yeah, I like that Music man has some rap elements. They're not called that, but it's kind of what it is.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

River City. All right.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Oh, yeah. He's Trump specifically talked about. About Buckley's turn, a Tony winning turn in 1983 of Grizabella, our fascist president. What a funny thing.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Grizabella. Is that another musical?

[John Lovett]

No, that's a cat.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, one of the Cats is Grizabella. See, I'm cast again. I don't. I don't remember. I don't remember Grizzadella or Grisella. By the way, that's the only movie Cats that my husband has ever walked out on.

[John Lovett]

Oh, really?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, it was like a 1pm showing and he knows what it's about, but like, five minutes in, they're going. My husband stands up and goes, I can't anymore. He leaves. There's children in there. It's a matinee show. There's children in there. There's children in there. He goes to see that. Remember that Fox News movie Bombshell or something? Remember? Yeah, he went to go watch that instead. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Anyway, I walked out of One musical in my life, and it's. I'm actually thinking to admit this for the first time, I do think it's damning. It was a West End production of Rent. Just walked right out. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's been a long time. Do we have to pretend it's good?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Someone's clapping. Someone's clapping. Wait, why? Because.

[John Lovett]

Okay, we are finally ready to talk about it. Wow.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wow. Look at what you started. Okay.

[Al Franken]

Did not see it.

[John Lovett]

Never saw it.

[Al Franken]

Never saw it.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Is it. It was your first time watching it and you were like, this plot sucks kind of thing.

[John Lovett]

I can't remember. I was 20. I think I was 20 years old, and, you know, there was a whole world to explore. I didn't, but sure, I could have. Next up, Speaking of Broadway, New York Post critic Johnny Olensky wrote a recent column complaining about the $921 ticket price for Denzel Washington's Broadway play. The show then took away his free ticket, so he bought his own ticket and wrote the headline blank, denzel Washington's Dull Broadway show isn't worth a $921 ticket. What is the show?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I don't know, but. So he had a free ticket that cost that much at first, so he.

[John Lovett]

Thought the ticket price was too high. He was gonna go review the play. They took away his free ticket. So he bought a ticket, went to the show, and wrote a review that says, not worth the price.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wow.

[Al Franken]

I mean, I'm. A $921 ticket.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't be worth the price after just 120. Any. Anything. Right. Any show. But anyway, do you know this?

[John Lovett]

It's Shakespeare.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Shall we say it?

[John Lovett]

It's Othello.

[Al Franken]

Oh, Othello.

[John Lovett]

And I think it's with Jake Gyllenhaal. It's Jake Gyllenhaal and Denzel Washington in OTHELLO. And it's $921. That's right. You could either get an iPad or you can see this from a racist backlash over casting Rachel Ziegler to Ziegler's pro Palestinian comments to the protesters demonstrating on the Walk of Fame this week. Disney's live action Snow White has been fraught with controversy. So what better way to distract us than by sending what adorable woodland animal down the film's premier red carpet? They sent an animal down the red carpet. What kind of animal was it? Was it A, a sheep? Was it B, a rabbit? Was it C, a deer? Or was it D A. D, A moose.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You're like. Or is it D a doe?

[Al Franken]

A beer.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I mean, it's gotta be deer, because, you know, that's in the movie. A deer's in the movie.

[John Lovett]

Probably.

[Carolyn Levitt]

And a bunny, too, but bunny's more underwhelming, right? Maybe. Maybe.

[Al Franken]

Oh, it's a bunny.

[John Lovett]

Oh, it's a bunny.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, okay.

[John Lovett]

A rabbit.

[Carolyn Levitt]

In fact, sorry to.

[John Lovett]

It's a rabbit that has a million Instagram followers.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

Because we live in L. There it is.

[Carolyn Levitt]

No way. Not. Not to be, like, a jealous hater, but, like, why her? Why. Why a million followers? Why her?

[John Lovett]

Well, if you don't get it, you don't get it.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I guess. I guess so. I mean, because.

[John Lovett]

I mean, look at that rabbit. That's why. That's a star. Come on.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I didn't know she owned a sweater.

[John Lovett]

Look at that. Look at that.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

I mean, look at that.

[Carolyn Levitt]

That stance is nice, but a lot of rabbits. No offense again, but kind of. They look alike, right? Am I crazy?

[Al Franken]

Is that a real rabbit or is it a.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It's AI.

[John Lovett]

It's AI. No, it's a real rabbit.

[Al Franken]

It's a real rabbit. Okay.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay. Yeah. All right.

[Al Franken]

Cute rabbit.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It did distract. You're right. It did do something.

[John Lovett]

Final question. Which one of these is not a medical symptom the newly returned astronauts can start recovering from after spending nine months in space, which is not a condition they experienced upon returning to Earth? Is it A, chicken legs? Is it B, puffy face? Is it C, a little too tall.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

Or is it D? All of the above. Which would mean not. Which is not.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wait, hold on, hold on.

[John Lovett]

What's doesn't make sense.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wait, what's chicken? Can I ask what chicken legs is? I don't know what that is.

[John Lovett]

It's just delicious. They've come down.

[Al Franken]

I think it means skinny, skinny legs.

[John Lovett]

Like, they got skinny legs because they weren't running around up there because of the space.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Okay? So, okay, so skinny legs, or you come back too tall, or you have a puffy face. Or all of them are wrong.

[John Lovett]

Or all of them are right. I'm not quite sure.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You're not sure. Okay.

[Al Franken]

Because it starts off with which one is not correct, Right?

[John Lovett]

Or none of the above. Hey, Al.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Are you glad you flew in for this show? No.

[John Lovett]

Hey, this is gonna be a recurring segment. Everybody be cool. It's gonna end up beautifully.

[Carolyn Levitt]

No, it's good. It's good, it's good.

[John Lovett]

So we're gonna. How about this?

[Carolyn Levitt]

We're gonna need a moment to talk about this.

[John Lovett]

Not. Not all of the above.

[Carolyn Levitt]

We got this. We got this. Okay, so you're gonna answer.

[John Lovett]

Oh, D. Yeah, that's right.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes. Teamwork incredible.

[John Lovett]

We got puppy fluffy faces, skinny legs, and they increase their height by 3%.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Wow. That's incredible.

[Al Franken]

Wow.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

That seems cool.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

What a drag though for those folks.

[John Lovett]

Being stuck up there for nine months.

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Too long.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, too long.

[Al Franken]

I feel like about eight months too long.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

They were supposed to be up there for eight days.

[John Lovett]

Eight days. Being up there for nine months. What a delay. You know, sometimes you go to the airport and it's like they delay the flight in like 10 minute increments and all of a sudden you've been there all day. Think about how bad a mood you are at the end of that day. Now imagine you just never leave the airport for nine months and you come.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Back taller but also less hot. Okay. No, thanks. Yeah, not to mention your personality. Right? Like, I would be cool if I could the whole time work on my personality too, but you probably come back not as. Not as nice. Right?

[John Lovett]

Everybody was so weird after the pandemic for like a year and a half.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, no.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, they're just. They're in quarantine up there.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, so all you get is height? Okay. No, thank you. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

How's it going, Al? Thanks for playing. Use it or lose it. The winner is Otsuko.

[Carolyn Levitt]

What? Al, you were robbed.

[Al Franken]

It was close. It was close.

[John Lovett]

It was really close. It was really close. A whisker. It was a whisker. A whisker on Grizabella.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I am upset for you.

[John Lovett]

When we come back, it's time for a blast from the past. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave It Coming up. Love or Leave it is brought to you by fatty 15. Have you heard about C15? It's an essential fatty acid that's naturally found in whole fat dairy products. But over time, our intake of these foods has decreased. Combined with a Natural decline of C15 as we age, many of us aren't getting enough of this important nutrient. Introducing fatty 15. C15 supplement. A simple way to replenish your body with this essential fatty acid. Backed by science and supported by studies, C15 helps support cell function and resiliency. Can be a valu. Valuable part of your long term health strategy. Fatty 15 is vegan 100 pure and free from flavors, fillers, allergens or preservatives. Just pure C15 in a gorgeous glass jar. It's designed to fit easily into your life with refills conveniently delivered to your door. Because even your C15 deserves to live the set it and forget it lifestyle. So do yourself a favor. Replenish your C15, restore your health and let your cells do the heavy lifting with fatty 15. Fatty 15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help you live healthier longer. You can get an additional 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com love it and use code Love it at checkout.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA Auto Insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today. Restrictions apply.

[John Lovett]

Usaa Right, we're back. All right, Love it or leave it, listeners. You're an audience of refined, exquisite taste. So we're thrilled to share our newest podcast from Crooked it's Shadow God's Banker. In the summer of 1982, the Vatican's top money man was found dead. Roberto Calvi was at the center of a prolific money laundering scheme that put him in the crosshairs of the Sicilian mob, a secret far right chapter of the Freemasons and the Catholic Church. His death was ruled a suicide, but 40 years later, host Niccolo Minoni got a tip that there was more to the story. Join him as he unspools the threads of this immersive true story to answer the question, who killed God's Banker? The first two episodes of Shadow Kingdom are available right now wherever you get your podcast. Or better yet, join our friends at the POD Community to binge all of the episodes right [e-mail] friends or in the Shadow Kingdom Apple podcast feed. Also, love it or leave it live in DC. The tickets are on sale right now. Join me April 24th we're back at the Lincoln Theater. Truly, some of my favorite shows we've ever done have been at the Lincoln Theater. Excited we're back because it's around the Correspondents Dinner. There's VIP tickets we hang before the show. The tickets are actually going very fast. We haven't even shared our guest lineup yet. So please come to the show cricket.com events and we'll be back at Dynasty next week. So if you're here in la, come to the show next week at Dynasty. All right. To close out the show in honor of the Snow White reboot, we're gonna share one thing we'd each like to Reboot in a segment we're calling Rebootalicious.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. Come on now.

[John Lovett]

Oh, come on.

[Al Franken]

Look at that.

[John Lovett]

That's horrible. Yes, Rebootalicious. Here's how it works. We're each gonna share one thing. We think we might wanna reboot Al. Take us away. What's something you would like to reboot?

[Al Franken]

Msnbc.

[John Lovett]

Oh, okay, just start it again.

[Al Franken]

Well, I like to animate it.

[John Lovett]

Oh, an animated.

[Carolyn Levitt]

That's fun. Oh, that's fun. Greenlit.

[John Lovett]

Yes, that's fun. Like in a kind of like a Pixar style or like Miyazaki sort of like, sort of lyrical and magical or very, very like kind of just big eyes and cute little faces.

[Al Franken]

Lyrical and magical.

[John Lovett]

Oh, cool. So like all of a sudden Chris Hayes is like a big hippo.

[Al Franken]

Something like that.

[John Lovett]

That'd be fun, huh? All right, Atsuko, what's something that you would like to reboot?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, probably the Brutalist. Already? Already, like, yes. Because why wait so long? Just do it again while it's still in conversation.

[John Lovett]

You think? Just a new version of the Brutalist.

[Carolyn Levitt]

With the acceptance speech.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

And.

[John Lovett]

But with what?

[Carolyn Levitt]

With the acceptance speech by Adrian Brody.

[Al Franken]

Oh, boy.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes, but animated too. Also animated. Also animated.

[John Lovett]

I feel like there's actually. I was a speechwriter and I learned something from that acceptance speech. Cause I just never thought about it. Which is if you ever basically, either in word or if you say some version of I have something important to say. But you have nothing. Like you've actually genuinely prepared nothing for what comes after that. You fucked up.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, right.

[John Lovett]

That's a big fuck up for sure. Because you don't. Because it's an unforced error and then.

[Al Franken]

Go, but wait, wait.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I'm not done.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It'S actually awesome.

[Carolyn Levitt]

See, it was an iconic moment and I feel like, you know, we could.

[John Lovett]

We could do it again. Back to one, everybody.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. Yes. Well, those were our thoughts. And you, John?

[John Lovett]

Oh, I want to reboot the video store Blockbuster, I think, but here's why. This was. Chris Hayes wrote that book about attention and it was great. I listened to it at 2x speed while watching something else and. Just kidding. I did listen. Listen to it in the car, but I focus. But he talks about how you used to go to a video store, you would drive and you would pick one thing and you'd be like, this is exciting. We're gonna watch this one thing and then you would drive it home and you would have a night and it would be surrounded by the idea of watching this one thing. And it was so fun. It was so exciting. A movie was a thing. It was a big deal. You were gonna pick your movie and go home and experience your movie and then drive it back. And now it's like, I don't know. Should we watch anything from any moment ever through all of recorded time? Nah, there's nothing. I was thinking about what I wanted to watch, which is of anything ever in all of recorded time. And I can't think of anything. So I guess I'll just watch four episodes of the Real Housewives of New York before I go to bed.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes. Yes.

[John Lovett]

And so. And honestly, fucking. Mwah. Incredible. Incredible. I love every. I mean, I can't believe how good it is.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Oh, I'm just realizing you're not rebooting it as a movie.

[John Lovett]

No, I'm remoting. I'm rebooting the concept. I just think we need to find a way to reboot the concept. Sorry.

[Carolyn Levitt]

This whole time I was like, oh, I'm following the plot.

[John Lovett]

The blockbuster.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. And I don't think we need a physical video store that you drive to, but we do need to reboot the concept of, like, everyone is going to choose one special thing to experience and treat it with respect and pay attention to it and then be done with. Done with it. You know, that was a good way of living. Al remembers you're older.

[Al Franken]

Yes. Yes, I do remember that.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Hey. Hey.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I remember, too.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. I was so young. I thought he was talking about a movie that he wanted to make. No. But also good idea.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. So that's what I want to reboot. Thank you, Al Franken. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you, Osco Koska.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Check out the residents. Check out Otsuko's new special on Hulu. That is our show. We will see you next week at Dynasty Typewriter. If you're in Wisconsin or in Chicago or anywhere around it, come say hi to me over this weekend. There are 591 days until the midterm elections. Have a great night and have a great weekend.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yay.

[Al Franken]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Straight shooter.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Love it or Leave It. Let's Love it or Leave it.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is a Cricket Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer. Bill McGrath is our producer, and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Will Miles are our writers. Jordan Kantor is our editor. Kyle Segman and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Chercher. Thanks to our designer, Sammy Cadearna Rhys for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers David Tulls, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt de Groat, our head of programming is Madeline Herringer, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America.

[Carolyn Levitt]

East it's love it or leave it.

[John Lovett]

Love it or le.

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[Atsuko Okatsuka]

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[Carolyn Levitt]

USA.