What a Year

Summary

Lovett or Leave It: “What a Year” (Best of 2025)

Podcast: Lovett or Leave It | Host: Jon Lovett (Crooked Media)
Episode: What a Year | Date: December 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This “best of” episode looks back at Lovett or Leave It’s wild, exhausting, and hilarious 2025 season. Host Jon Lovett and a cast of favorite guests and writers revisit the funniest, strangest, and most memorable moments—from absurd right-wing culture war panics to the collapse of late-night TV and the simple joys (and disputes) of relationships. Standout guests include Bob the Drag Queen, Roy Wood Jr., Tig Notaro, Stephanie Allen, Andy Richter, Henry Winkler, and more. The show leans into both the political weirdness of the year and the healing power of irreverent comedy, with Lovett’s trademark self-deprecating wit and frank discussions on everything from gay TSA beams to dog poop etiquette.

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Highlights & Key Segments

1. Looking Back on a Chaotic 2025

Main Theme:
Lovett opens by reflecting on the “1,000 years long” that was 2025—emphasizing the need for humor in the face of political and cultural chaos.

• “Is this the end of American democracy? Has the social contract been irrevocably broken? And most importantly, do white jeans make you gay? The answer to all of those questions is we don't think so.” (01:22)

[00:00–01:30]

• Lovett lays out the episode’s premise: a “best of” lover’s choice, with reactions to heavy headlines and goofy culture war flare-ups.
• Guests: Bob the Drag Queen, John Marco Cerese, Roy Wood Jr., Tig Notaro, Stephanie Allen.
• Tease for “Sandwich of Justice” with writers Sarah Lazarus & Hallie Kiefer.

2. “Look Over They Them There”: Culture Wars Absurdities

[01:55–14:10]
Segment Highlights:

• Satire of right-wing panic over gender/sexuality:
  • “The claim that sitting in front of a screen makes you a woman.”
  • The body-scanner “gay beam” conspiracy.
  • Whether men can wear white jeans.

Notable Quotes:

• Roy Wood Jr.: “That man knows the flavor of penis… That is dick.” (03:49)
• Stephanie Allen: “No, because they shit themselves so much.” (12:10, on men wearing white jeans)
• Roy Wood Jr.: “White jeans are high risk, high reward, for sure.” (13:05)
• John Lovett: “Maybe the TSA body scanner turns you gay.” (10:14)
• Stephanie Allen: “I can’t. I’m sorry. I just can’t take it.” (10:57)

Memorable Tangents:

• Fast food beverage rankings devolve into affectionate debate about Diet Coke and Mountain Dew Baja Blast (05:56–07:41).
• Running joke: Lesbians don’t wear white jeans. (“If I see it, I’ll say, not a lesbian. You can’t fool me, bitch.” – Roy Wood Jr., 13:49)
• Ari Schwartz and John Lovett discuss their relationship dynamic and Jewish identity.

3. Vegan Poop and Dog Park Ethics (with Andy Richter & Paula Poundstone)

[14:32–17:24]

• Stormy debate: Can compostable poop bags go in yard waste? (Spoiler: No, because poop isn’t compostable—unless you’re a horse.)
• Andy Richter’s confession: “I would say that the reason I wasn’t putting human waste in the yard waste bin… is not because I knew I couldn’t… it’s just simply that I wouldn’t.” (15:47)

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4. The Newlywed Game: Lovett, Ari, Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allen

[19:46–33:41]
A heartwarming—and occasionally cutting—group dynamic emerges while couples try to match “most annoying habit” and “most likely to ruin a vacation.”

• Stephanie Allen: “I gave Ari some suggestions backstage. I’m not gonna lie.” (26:31)
• Roy Wood Jr.: “What a nasty fight.” (28:20, on dog poop-picking technique)
• Tig Notaro sums up: “My body has failed me a few times.” (30:02)

Notable Quote:

• John Lovett: “There’s no amount of testosterone that can kill the part of a Jewish woman that wants a big diamond.” (21:57)

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5. Henry Winkler: On Insecurity, Dyslexia, and the Fonz

[34:08–40:30]
A candid, moving segment where Henry Winkler shares his journey:

• Struggles with family support, academic difficulties, and dyslexia:
  • “My parents were really not supportive at all. They would call me Dummerhunt, which means dumb dog.” (35:57)
  • “I am in the bottom 3% academically in America.” (35:58)
• Finding meaning and self-acceptance in his later years:
  • “It is only in the last 10 years, I saw myself as a block of Swiss cheese filled with holes. And in the last 10 years, I have tried to make myself into a block of cheddar.” (36:20)
• Authoring children’s books, inspiration for Hank Zipser (38:56).

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6. The Future of Political Comedy & The Collapse of Late Night

[43:17–59:57]
A raw, sharp analysis on:

• CBS canceling The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, after a Trump settlement:
  • Roy Wood Jr.: “You don’t do it like that if it’s about budget.” (50:45)
• The economics of late night, rise of podcasts, and the South Park/Paramount+ $1.5 billion deal.
• How comedy got more partisan under Trump, and the consequences.
• Lee I. Heisenberg:
  • “The problem with that is I did think you created a partisan late night that did turn off a lot of people… I think they should have been meaner to all people in power or more apolitical, one of the two you choose.” (56:23)

Notable Quotes:

• Gianmarco Cerese: “What you’re talking about is noble. It’s very noble. But it’s not maximum profit.” (58:56)
• “The moment you start isolating and you push people away and then you never bring them in… your entire audience are people who just are being pandered to and kind of get some steam off every night.” (Lee I. Heisenberg, 57:00)

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7. Jewish Stereotypes & Family: “If the Jew Fits”

[62:48–69:31]
Rachel Bloom, Robby Hoffman, and the Lovett family lovingly dissect Jewish stereotypes (kvetching, temperature battles) and queerness.

• “To complain is to enjoy. To me, they’re one and the same.” (Sarah Lazarus, 62:48)
• Stephanie Allen: “My family… would have to restaurant hop if the restaurant was too cold.” (63:11)
• Generational stories about learning acceptance of LGBTQ family members:
  • “Some men love men and some women love women. They go, okay, it’s so fun.” (66:36)
  • “If you make it a big deal… They’re going to be screaming, crying.” (Sarah Lazarus, 69:11)
• John Lovett: “It’s almost like we need to take the whole conservative movement and just… show them a bunch of trans and gay people and just go, you’re okay. It’s no big deal. You’re okay.” (69:13)

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8. Best Curmudgeons Game: Rank the New York Nudge

[69:34–78:49]
David Krumholtz reveals a rocky encounter with Danny DeVito, by way of a blind-rank contest for classic New York “curmudgeons” (Bernie Sanders, Fran Lebowitz, Larry David).

• “Danny DeVito fucking hated me and it was so bad that I had to quit.” (75:42)
• “He cursed me out one day… and my wife was pregnant with my first child and I had like all this insecure I was like, freaking out, and I was like—I need a break.” (76:01)

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9. “Sandwich of Justice”: Writers vs. Lovett Joke-Off

[80:31–89:41]
Lovett, Sarah Lazarus, and Hallie Kiefer revisit a “Sandwich of Justice” bet where Lovett stubbornly insisted a convoluted joke would land—it didn’t.

• Sarah Lazarus: “I take pleasure in being right. I take pleasure in eating a sandwich.” (81:00)
• Lovett: “The joke bombed… And then you just keep mugging. You’re mug crazy.” (85:00)
• Dissection of joke mechanics, team chemistry:
  • “The beautiful magic between the three strange aspects of our personality…” (88:44)

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Standout Moments and Quotes

• Lovett’s recurring bit on the year: “We came, we saw, we screamed, we laid down, we made some jokes and the some of them, dare I say many of them, even landed.” (00:22)
• On right-wing culture panic, Roy Wood Jr.: “Tariffs cure cancer. Tariffs gives you girlfriends. Tariffs gives you wings. Don’t drink a tariff after 3pm.” (08:45)
• Lovett’s reflection on comedy’s purpose: “I don’t know how I would have gotten through this year not being able to write jokes about what is happening. I feel like that is the function of this show for so many people, both who work on it and the listener.” (90:27)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Opening & Year Recap | 00:00–01:55 | | Culture Wars Segment: “Look Over They Them There” | 01:55–14:10 | | Vegan Poop Rant Wheel (Andy Richter, Paula Poundstone) | 14:32–17:24 | | Newlywed Game (Lovett, Ari, Tig, Stephanie) | 19:46–33:41 | | Henry Winkler Interview | 34:08–40:30 | | Late Night’s Demise (Colbert/South Park) | 43:17–59:57 | | Jewish Stereotypes & Acceptance | 62:48–69:31 | | "Curmudgeons": Ranking NYC Nudge | 69:34–78:49 | | “Sandwich of Justice” Segment | 80:31–89:41 |

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Conclusion

Lovett or Leave It: What a Year gleefully wraps up a bruising 2025—showcasing the show’s strength as a cathartic, community-building engine of smart, pointed, and ultimately healing comedy. Whether tearing apart the latest political absurdity, picking over family foibles, or celebrating unlikely victories (and catastrophic joke failures), Lovett and friends remind listeners why laughter and honest conversation matter—especially when everything feels a little insane.

“Thank God for jokes and one sandwich.”
— John Lovett (90:44)

Transcript

[John Lovett]

This episode is sponsored by Cards Against Humanity, the company that bought land on the US Mexico border to stop Trump's wall, sued Elon Musk for $15 million for trespassing on that land use profits from red states to fund abortion access, and paid people to give a shit about the 2024 election. Cards against Humanity is one of the only companies stupid enough to stand up to Donald Trump. They don't profit from their political stunts, so if you want them to be able to afford a good lawyer, consider buying one of their new games like Cards Against Humanity Tales, a book of fill in the blank stories for horrible people. Or shit. Listening to a new way to play the game where you write the answers or party mouth a new party game about shouting obscenities as a coping mechanism for the hellscape we live in. You listen to crooked media, so you're probably smart enough to figure out how to buy their stuff. Anyway, Cards Against Humanity apologizes for interrupting your podcast with their bull. Well, we made it. Despite being approximately 1000 years long, 2025 has finally come to a close. We came, we saw, we screamed, we laid down, we made some jokes and the some of them, dare I say many of them, even landed. There was a lot of this year we might not want to look back on. So don't worry, we did it for you. While Assembling this, our 2025 Best of Love it or Leave it episode, hand picked by the Love it or Leave it team, we tackled so many hard questions on the show this year. Like is this the end of American democracy? Has the social contract been irrevocably broken? And most importantly, do white jeans make you gay? The answer to all of those questions is we don't think so. But we'll let you be the judge as as you listen to our favorite segments selected by our writers and producers, there are too many great moments to choose from. We got Bob the Drag Queen, John Marco cerese, Roy Wood Jr. Tig Notaro, and Stephanie Allen. And at the end of the episode, I will be joined by Sarah Lazarus and Hallie Kiefer, our writers, because I made a bet and we're gonna see how that bet turned out. But I don't think everybody would be excited about this segment if I won. So let's get into it. What a year. First up, these are two of my favorite moments from this year. Bob the Drag Queen and Jessica Kirsten scream. Look over they them there back in April and boy did I. And then Andy Richter, Jason Isaacs, and Paula Poundstone Dig into what you can do with a vegan's number two during one of the best rant wheels of the year. As things get progressively worse and American conservative media gets more and more panicked about gender and sexuality. Cuz if they didn't, they'd have to cover the news. I'm running out of things to say about it. Which is why I wanted you two to say it instead. As we all weigh in on the question, will this successfully distract the straight conservatives from the many terrifying real problems affecting our country? In a segment we're calling look over they them there.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I love Bob and Jessica. Sounds like a straight couple. Bob and Jessica are coming over for dinner.

[John Lovett]

It sounds like the hosts of a morning TV show.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, it does.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

With Bob and Jessica.

[John Lovett]

Does he? And that's the traffic report back over to you, Bob and Jessica. It does.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, it does.

[John Lovett]

It really does. First up, the claim that sitting in front of a screen makes you a woman.

[Stephanie Allen]

What?

[David Krumholtz]

Yep.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

To be fair, Jessica is sitting in.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Front of a screen.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

So one out of three chances, it will work.

[John Lovett]

Let's roll the clip. When you sit behind a screen all day, it makes you a woman. Studies have shown this. Studies have shown this. And if you're out working like building robots like Harold, you are around other guys, you're not around H.R. ladies and lawyers.

[Stephanie Allen]

What do you do?

[John Lovett]

Gives you estrogen.

[Stephanie Allen]

What do you do?

[John Lovett]

Let me finish.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Judge.

[Stephanie Allen]

What a faggot behind the screen.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Can we just look at the beginning of the clip when he goes sitting behind the screen all day.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah. Sashay. That's amazing.

[John Lovett]

That's good.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

That man knows the flavor of penis. If he did a flying tasty. That's dick. That is dick.

[John Lovett]

I know it is, right? It's like, it's like, okay, Diet Dr. Pepper. Dr. Pepper. Penis. Penis.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

No, he, he be like, Diet Dr. Pepper, Dr. Pepper.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Jim.

[Stephanie Allen]

But he sits in front of a screen all day.

[John Lovett]

He's on the news. I. I think he might be full of. Yeah, Jessica, your who special is called I'm the Man. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Is that because you do stand up and you don't work behind a screen?

[Stephanie Allen]

That's like, because of the term, like I'm the man. Like, I am a female comic who's very powerful and fearless and I. Yeah. So like society's view of what a man is. Also, every time I've been with a woman, a straight guy, I said, who's the man? And I'm like, I guess it's me. Cause I don't listen and I'm dead inside.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I was Taco Bell recently.

[John Lovett]

Not to brag, I'm there every night.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

But I pulled up to the drive thru and the lady at the drive thru was like, welcome to Taco Bell.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

And I was like, hi, can I.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Get the Doritos Locos and a Mountain Dew0 Baja blast. And then she said, yes, ma', am, absolutely. Just drive up to the next window. And I was like, I don't have a. I don't mean. I don't think my voice is that feminine. Ok, sure, whatever. So I was like, and I was like, I'm going to, I'm not going to correct her. It's fine. We pull up to the window and I look it, it's a man. Because I said, I said, yes, ma'.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Am.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

We pulled up two men.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

We were.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Like, what do we do? We didn't say anything. I just said, I said, thank you, ma'.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Am.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

He said, yes, ma'.

[John Lovett]

Am.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

On your way.

[John Lovett]

Kiss. Kiss.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Kiss.

[John Lovett]

Kiss.

[Henry Winkler]

Kiss.

[John Lovett]

Kiss. That's an opportunity to kiss. Yeah, you should kiss Mountain Dew. Zero.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's.

[John Lovett]

That's a cursed drink. No, no, no.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Let me say right now, I'm not one to go on and on about beverages. That being said in turn, I'm pre diabetic so I can't drink sugar. Full drinks. So if you're out there looking for a great sugar free beverage, I'm going to rank them for you. So at the very, very top of the list you have Taco Bell's Baja blast, Mountain Dew Zero. This is elite. You can't even tell it's zero sugar. Then under there you have Diet Dr. Pepper.

[John Lovett]

Okay, that's a good one.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Absolutely amazing. Below that you're going to have Coke Zero and Pepsi Max. But over here in the other world there's this group of maniacs and they drink Diet Coke.

[Stephanie Allen]

I like Diet Sprite.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Diet Sprite is great.

[Stephanie Allen]

Diet dad.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Diet Coke. Diet Coke is a cult. It's crazy.

[Stephanie Allen]

It is a cult.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

They'll drink it with anything. They're like, good morning. I have a sauce, egg and cheese and a Diet Coke.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

So in my fridge at home we have Diet Coke and one level down is all caffeine free. Diet Coke. Silver can, gold can. Because silver Diet Cokes you can drink until 3 o'.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Clock.

[John Lovett]

Gold diet cokes you can drink 3 o' clock till morning.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I would say you have reached a certain age when the caffeine and Diet Coke is sending you into a ye. When you're like, if I drink this Diet Coke, I'm not gonna get to bed. And so you are a woman of a certain age?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I am. I am of that. Whatever age you think that is, I have hit it. I am on the other side of that age. If I get anywhere near a full caffeinated diet coke after 4 o', clock, after 4 o', clock, two days are ruined.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's amazing.

[John Lovett]

That is such a crisis. If I have a diet coke after 3 o', clock, the next day is fucked. Wow. I'm not better the day after that. That's how fucked I am.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I imagine you have a Diet Coke and someone walks in like. Are they filming Breaking Bad in here? What is going on? This guy's cracked out in here.

[John Lovett]

Next up, the idea that tariffs equal girlfriends. This week Vox published an article titled the Strange link between Trump's tariffs and incel ideology. Meet the lonely men who think tariffs will get them girlfriends. Apparently it's part of a larger online hysteria that claims women have cushy email jobs providing them with a level of financial security which keeps them from having to marry and have sex with socially dysfunctional men. If tariffs tanks the economy, women will be forced to marry men for economic survival, thus righting a terrible wrong against the duds.

[Stephanie Allen]

Can someone kill me? I'm serious. Can someone just kill me tonight?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I don't think maggots know what a tariff is.

[Stephanie Allen]

I don't either.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I genuinely don't think they know what it is, what it does, who pays for it, where it comes from, who came first, the tariff or the product. They have no clue. And they will say it does anything. Tariffs. Tariffs cure cancer. Tariffs gives you girlfriends. Tariffs gives you wings. Don't drink a tariff after 3pm.

[Stephanie Allen]

Brilliant.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I just like, it's just like you're, you're sitting in your, you're in front of your computer, in your parents.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

House, becoming a woman.

[John Lovett]

Becoming a woman. You're gaming. Life hasn't gone your way. You think that tariffs are gonna fuck up the marketing jobs for the women and turn you into what, a factory foreman?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I hate to say it, but those guys who are not getting laid, not only could tariffs not get you laid. Jesus Christ. Could not get those guys laid.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, tariffs, that's your problem. That's your problem. You got Jersey bed sheets. Get it together.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Terrible. That was.

[John Lovett]

No, hey, that was, I, I, that was horrible. Come on, it was pretty cuz it.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Was such a bad.

[John Lovett]

If you committed, we would have been in.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

They didn't hear.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, that's true.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I said it's terrible is what I said.

[Stephanie Allen]

See, it Worked. It worked.

[John Lovett]

We're just terrifing. Let's do. Let's this h. Next up, maybe the TSA body scanner turns you gay.

[Stephanie Allen]

Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

In a recent podcast clip that went viral, a Christian nationalist pastor expressed concern that the TSA body scanner returned him gay with its gay beam.

[Stephanie Allen]

I had to be molested at the.

[John Lovett]

Airport to go to Florida, right? Just to get on an airplane, because I'm not going to go through the molested machine. I didn't let C.J.

[Stephanie Allen]

Do it.

[John Lovett]

I wouldn't let him do it. Said, you're getting patted down, too, buddy. I don't want them turning you gay.

[Stephanie Allen]

I. I can't. I'm sorry. I just can't take it.

[John Lovett]

I just don't think it's the beam, my friend.

[Stephanie Allen]

I mean, you go through, like, I'm.

[John Lovett]

About to go through security, and you.

[Stephanie Allen]

Come out and you're like, hello.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I mean, we know that's not true because all gays have TSA PreCheck. Everyone knows we would never stand in this machine. We don't do that.

[John Lovett]

Such an important point.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

We walk by, realize it's like, you feel so vip. You're, like, Looking at the straight men, kick their shoes off, taking out their laptops and their fucking iPad pros and their Nintendo switches.

[John Lovett]

And finally, can white men can wear. No.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Don'T finish it. The answer is no.

[John Lovett]

I also. I misread it. It's not can white men. It's can men wear white jeans?

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah. No, because they shit themselves so much.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Not straight men.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, maybe the stray man shitting themselves. The Trump administration has ignored the Supreme Court, sent our nation into a constitutional crisis, attacked our universities, erased our history. But Fox News can't cover that, so they have to ask important questions, like, can men wear white jeans?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I will say in their defense, no.

[John Lovett]

Finish the thought. Finish the thought.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

White jeans are, like, hot. Like, when a man wears white jeans, I think to myself, there's no way this man would ever be straight. A straight man would not think to wear white jeans, for starters. And if they do, they would be covered in mustard and ketchup. Beef jerky, Cheeto dust, Red Bull Cheeto dust. They don't have the. They don't have the tact it takes to wear white jeans.

[John Lovett]

It's really. It's high. The white jeans, they're high risk, high reward, for sure. If it's working, you feel like you're just. You're crushing life. Look at me in these white jeans. The other thing about the white jeans is if the Sneakers are off. You look insane. Yeah, you look crazy. Everything has to be right.

[Stephanie Allen]

Not a lot of lesbians don't wear white jeans either. I just realized.

[John Lovett]

Huh?

[Stephanie Allen]

I love that no one just responded to that.

[John Lovett]

Why? Do you feel very alone?

[Stephanie Allen]

I don't know. I mean, I do, but I don't know. I don't know. Let's just go over something else.

[John Lovett]

I feel. I feel like.

[Stephanie Allen]

Can you just agree.

[John Lovett]

With me so I can.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

It's true. I have never seen a lesbian wear white jeans. And if I see it, I'll say, not a lesbian. You can't fool me, bitch.

[John Lovett]

You're a lesbian.

[Stephanie Allen]

No.

[John Lovett]

We gotta get these cards checked.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

She's from Lebanon.

[John Lovett]

Oh, my God. You're Lebanese.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, I'm Jewish from Lebanon.

[John Lovett]

So anyway, back that I got a lot of questions about. I got a lot of questions about Chicken Turner. So we're in good shape.

[Stephanie Allen]

Chicken.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Are you Jewish?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Me?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Oh, no, I'm not.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

I know.

[John Lovett]

Hey, do me a favor. Never ask anyone that. I'm a dog owner. I live in Pasadena. You know, people leaving dog on around, like, that's. Of course, that's infuriating and. And should be punishable by something. And I do. I. It's the only reason.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Death is the only language.

[John Lovett]

It's the only reason that I'm for, like, CCT everywhere just to get people leaving dog shit. Like, I. And I just think there should be a whole part of city government just focused on that. But the thing that gets me beyond that is that you go to the trouble of picking it up. And I'm not one of those people that says, don't put dog shit in my trash can. It's a trash can. Put your dog shit in there. I don't care. But then they put it in the recycling or the yard waste. Well, hold on. Might as well throw it in the street. Can I. I'm gonna ask a question.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Okay. And you're passionate. Yes. And I love that. If I have compostable poop bags, which I do, and it's filled with poop, can I not put that in the carnivore's? Poop is not compostable. It doesn't go in the yard waste. It does not.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Really.

[John Lovett]

It's not manure. It's not great on soil and stuff. It's the same way that you can't put human shit in there.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

What?

[John Lovett]

Oh, no. Now we get why he needs scented B. Now, now, Andy, in fairness, you're making a point. I have to apologize to all of my Neighbors. Now, the reason he's out there again. How does he prop himself up? Yes. I would say that the reason I wasn't putting human waste in the yard waste bin is not because I knew I couldn't. It's just simply that I wouldn't. But when I thought. I genuinely am learning this from you on this stage, that I thought because I went to the trouble of buying compostable bags, that that meant that green and black were both acceptable places.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

No, that.

[John Lovett]

That poop is not. I mean, of course, when it's mixed in with everything, it's, you know, it's. But it's. But it's not supposed to be. Not supposed to be compostable. If you had a compost pile in your backyard, you know, you could. Like, I used to live in an equestrian area of Burbank, and I would. There'd be horseshit on the street and I'd put it in our compost pile because that's. They eat hay. Because they eat hay. They eat hay. It's an herbivore. But you. But do you want to do it? I'm a vegan, so I'm fine. That's right. That's right. All right. Just see him. I'm a vegan. It's okay.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Good. The alert is off.

[John Lovett]

Good. Yeah, boy. You want.

[Stephanie Allen]

You want to get that information out.

[Tig Notaro]

To the Neighborhood Watch.

[John Lovett]

What a fascinating thing to learn. Hey, don't go anywhere.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by the League of Conservation Voters. The climate crisis isn't a distant threat. It's here. It impacts everything from the air we breathe to where we call home. But even though things might feel bleak, there's real progress happening thanks to organizations like the League of Conservation Voters, LCV for short. Mobilizing people to stand up for the environment. For over 50 years, LCV has translated our shared hope for a greener future into pro environmental policies that create clean energy jobs, make air cleane, breathe, and water safer to drink, keep public lands in the public's hands, and ensure every community is a healthy place to live. Now, more than ever, LCV is counting on people like you to sustain their work. Every contribution funds their advocacy, from pushing for stronger climate policies to standing up to big polluters in the Trump administration. Progress is happening, but it depends on us. Donate [e-mail] love it or leave it and help fuel LCV's critical work. Now through December 31st, every donation towards LCV's pursuit of a brighter future gets double matched together. Let's make sure the planet never takes a backseat. [e-mail] Love it or leave it. Today, the 2026 Chevy Equinox is more than an SUV. It's your Sunday tailgate and your parking lot snack bar, your lucky jersey, your chairs and your big cooler fit perfectly in your even bigger cargo space. And when it's go time, your 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen's got the playbook, the playlist, and the tech to stay a step ahead. It's more than an suv. It's your Equinox Chevrolet. Together, let's drive. Coming up, Tig Notaro and Stephanie Allen dog walk me and my partner Ari down the aisle in a radically unfair round of the Newlywed Game. After that, Henry Winkler looks back on his creative legacy from freaking out the squares as the Fonz and to writing through his lifelong struggle with dyslexia. Also, somehow, Timothee Chalamet was involved. What can I say? The man's a Hollywood institution. Please welcome to the stage my future spouse and the person whose wet towels I can't wait to pick up off the bathroom floor every single day until I die. It's the wonderful Ari Schwartz.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

All right.

[John Lovett]

All right. Hi.

[Stephanie Allen]

Hi.

[John Lovett]

Are you glad we did this?

[Stephanie Allen]

I'm. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

You don't regret doing this?

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

No.

[Tig Notaro]

Doing what?

[John Lovett]

Being on the microphone.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh. Oh. I thought you meant engaged.

[John Lovett]

Oh.

[Stephanie Allen]

I was like, oh, well, now would be the time to kind of hash that out.

[John Lovett]

Anything you'd like to share about the engagement?

[Stephanie Allen]

It happened, and now I'm on a microphone because of it.

[Tig Notaro]

Tell us the engagement story.

[John Lovett]

Well, so we planned it to within an inch of its life, to the point where there was zero. Surprise.

[Stephanie Allen]

None.

[John Lovett]

To the point where we discussed not just when we would do it, not just that we would do it at a dinner, and not just that we would do it during dessert, but.

[Tig Notaro]

What dessert?

[Stephanie Allen]

I don't even remember the dessert, but.

[John Lovett]

We decided that we would do it.

[Stephanie Allen]

There was some cookie, I guess.

[John Lovett]

But we decided we would do it when the dessert was placed but before we ate it, because then we wouldn't face a.

[Stephanie Allen]

We had an overly attentive waiter, which we love.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

We love.

[Stephanie Allen]

But we were nervous that it would be interrupted and so are you talking about this the whole time you're at this? Essentially, yes.

[Sarah Lazarus]

What about before you got there?

[Stephanie Allen]

The whole day.

[John Lovett]

And honestly, weeks before.

[Stephanie Allen]

So it was. Yeah, it kind of took over.

[John Lovett]

And there was. And that was romantic in its own way.

[Tig Notaro]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

But then We.

[John Lovett]

We had a really nice day together, and then we decided on the moment, and then we each had set. We decided we would each say something really nice about why we wanted to be engaged. And then we made it official. And then we exchanged rings.

[Stephanie Allen]

Sure did.

[John Lovett]

Can I make my joke?

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, you sure can.

[John Lovett]

And it turns out there's no amount of testosterone that can kill the part of a Jewish woman that wants a big diamond.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's true. That's true.

[Tig Notaro]

That is amazing.

[John Lovett]

All right.

[Stephanie Allen]

I really, like. Can I make my joke?

[Tig Notaro]

And then real quick, how far into your relationship did you decide, I want to be married to this person. And who brought it up and was like, I want to be married to.

[John Lovett]

Well, it doesn't. It involves the television program Survivor.

[Stephanie Allen]

I assumed, as all engagements should, because.

[John Lovett]

I went on the television program Survivor and for what? To be. To survive.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

And we had only started dating not soon before, like, pretty close to when I had to leave.

[Tig Notaro]

Wait, you were actually a cast member on there?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't know that. You don't know that. I was on the same.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't follow. I only know who Houdini is.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't follow pop culture.

[John Lovett]

No, no, for sure. And so I was on Survivor, which meant I was gone and on. Away from my phone for five weeks or four weeks. And.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

And when I got my. And when I got my phone back, so we had talked about, we'll see where we are at the end of the year. This is May of last year. And when I got my phone back, we both. I called you from Fiji. But we basically, when I called, having been away for five weeks, were like, when I get back, this is it. And we moved in right then.

[Tig Notaro]

It was like, you said that.

[Stephanie Allen]

Well, I had already moved in, obviously, because he had left the property, so I moved in.

[Tig Notaro]

And so you called saying, when I get home, it's just me and you, kid.

[John Lovett]

Basically four evs.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's it.

[John Lovett]

And you said. You said you were. You were. It wasn't like. It was like. You weren't surprised by that? No.

[Tig Notaro]

You were a little hesitant. Were you like, like, how long?

[Stephanie Allen]

No, I think I was like, basically like, yeah, I've pretty much already moved every. All of my stuff in.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. So that's a little bit of the old lesbian jumping out in that. It was a very practical thing. Well, my stuff is. So I guess we should spend the rest of our lives together.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's how it works.

[Tig Notaro]

To be fair, Steph, I used to have a Loft downtown. And Stephanie came over in, like, what, the first month? And she was like, I am so sick of trying to find parking down here. Should we just move in together? I was like, sure. Anybody else before Stephanie, I would have been like, calling a friend, being like, no, she couldn't find parking, and she's like, should we move in? But with Stephanie, I'm like, that makes sense.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

No one can be a survivor, but yeah.

[John Lovett]

Also, the plumbing did break at your apartment.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, my apartment flooded, which is also obviously a part of it.

[Tig Notaro]

And did you call and were you like, so my plumbing exploded?

[John Lovett]

Well, I had ripped the pipe out the wall the day before. All right. And now it is with deep regret that I hand over control of this segment to Hallie.

[Stephanie Allen]

Welcome, everyone, to a segment we're calling the Sunywind Game. Thank you, Kennedy. For the title, we are going to pit one married couple against two spouses to be. However, since being married for a decade definitely puts a thumb on the personal trivia scale, we tried to balance out the relationship deep dives with a more philosophical view of your partner. Did we see succeed? It's too late to worry about that now because it's time to play the SUNY Wed game. When I ask a question, I will be directing it either to Tig and Lovett or Stephanie and Ari. I paired you guys up based on how much I liked your vibe. Let us begin. Ari and Stephanie, what is the single most annoying thing your partner does now? Love it. And, Tig, you're gonna write what you think they're writing right now. So this is not what you personally think the most annoying thing is. What is the most annoying thing to Stephanie in her eyes or Ari in their eyes?

[John Lovett]

I think this is. Oh, that's a tough one. Wow, this is gonna be devastating.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right, I gave Ari some suggestions backstage. I'm not gonna lie.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. Okay.

[Stephanie Allen]

Any ideas?

[Tig Notaro]

What if I can't think of anything?

[Stephanie Allen]

Ooh.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

That's longevity. That's practice. That's practice.

[Stephanie Allen]

Stephanie's just erasing wildly.

[Sarah Lazarus]

List.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right. How are we doing? Are we still working on it? Nope. Okay. Writing a lot down there. Love it.

[John Lovett]

Great. Okay, I'm ready.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right, great.

[John Lovett]

Everyone, who reveals first?

[Stephanie Allen]

Ooh, I don't think we thought that through. I think Ari and Stephanie reveal and then love it until you reveal and see if they match.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right, so, Ari and Stefanie, please turn your boards around, and I will read them out loud. Ari has written doesn't know how to pick up dog poop. That's a great one. Stephanie says her love of air conditioning. Okay. Love it. Let's turn yours around first. Are they matching?

[John Lovett]

I said constantly says, let's deal with this task tomorrow until we die.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah. Okay. These seem related. And then Tig. Okay, great. Lot of laughs. Let's turn this bad boy around. And we wrote, wow, that's 10 years.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

How they got it. How's temp? Too cold.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Wow.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's how we do it.

[Sarah Lazarus]

12 years.

[John Lovett]

And to me, that's amazing. That's amazing. That's one point for you. Just to be clear, when Ari says, I don't know how to pick up dog poop, it's not that I don't pick it up. It's that they believe my technique is wrong.

[Stephanie Allen]

It's wrong. Do you guys want to smell the dog poop? He holds it up to his nose. No. He opens the bag up to his. No. I defend it.

[John Lovett]

Ari claims the bag is open. Is open too long.

[Stephanie Allen]

Oh, because it's open.

[John Lovett]

That I.

[Stephanie Allen]

That I don't.

[John Lovett]

That I don't try to close it on the ground. That I come up and then I close it.

[Tig Notaro]

What a nasty fight.

[Stephanie Allen]

Don't worry, they have it. I'm worried about you, too. They have eternity to resolve it. Moving on. I think I already know the answer, at least for one of our couples. And this is a question for Ari and Stephanie. Ari and Stephanie, tell me, in your opinion, who is more likely to ruin a vacation and take that however you want to take it. You know what I'm talking about.

[Tig Notaro]

And is this just yes or no?

[Stephanie Allen]

No. This is, if it's possible, it is yours or Stephanie's name.

[Tig Notaro]

And am I doing this?

[Stephanie Allen]

Yes, you're doing all of them.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right, great. I see a big old answer on Ari. So we'll start with you guys. Ari, would you mind turning your board around? Yeah, obviously. Come on, now. I obviously said, love it.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Very big John. I wrote me. Not even close.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yes. Love it. Of course. Obviously. All right. Okay. Tig and Stephanie.

[Tig Notaro]

It's happened many times.

[Stephanie Allen]

It says 76. Tig many times.

[Tig Notaro]

So many, many trips.

[Stephanie Allen]

No points awarded or involved.

[John Lovett]

Sounds like ruined some indoor vacations.

[Stephanie Allen]

Are you guys having fun? Yeah.

[John Lovett]

What is the most likely thing to get you in trouble on a vacation?

[Stephanie Allen]

I was thinking, do we write it.

[Tig Notaro]

On the board here?

[Stephanie Allen]

We've had some hospital detours.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, my body has failed me a few times.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, I don't know if those count.

[Sarah Lazarus]

That's what I was thinking.

[Stephanie Allen]

You were gonna think.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, I think you Wanna know the way I've ruined vacations? Stephanie and I really differ on what time to leave for airports. And in fact, we went through that getting here tonight. Calling the car. Stephanie wanted to call the car to where we would arrive 40 minutes early. Not interested in that. I'm not interested in that. Whereas I like to just roll 40 minutes late. 40 minutes late. No, I'm not. No. Don't you start pulling indoor problems.

[Stephanie Allen]

We gotta wrap it up before love, it collapses here. Final question, Ari and Stephanie. What is your weirdest habit? Obviously, the one that you'd be okay revealing tonight in front of all these people, not trying to end your relationships. So, again, Ari and Stephanie, what is your weirdest habit? And then love it. And take. What is the. Just what you think is their weirdest habit?

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my gosh.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right, Stephanie, I'll have you start first. What is your weirdest. This sounds so weird.

[John Lovett]

Ooh.

[Stephanie Allen]

Okay, great. My cup in the bath. Yes. Weird.

[John Lovett]

My cup in the bath.

[Stephanie Allen]

And then, Tig, I'll have you turn it around, please. Be cup in the bath. Money on. When Stephanie points at all.

[Tig Notaro]

I didn't finish writing it. Where she points all of her fingers up at the water faucet in the bathtub. So similar.

[John Lovett]

Same thing.

[Tig Notaro]

It's the same thing. She either when the water comes out of the faucet, I notice because I go sit on this stool next to the bath and talk to her while.

[Stephanie Allen]

She'S enjoying a cup.

[John Lovett]

Yep.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And the water comes out. She's in the tub, the water's coming out of the faucet, and she makes a cup with her hand for the water. Or she does this to the water. So I hadn't finished writing the whole thing, but it's the water.

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Stephanie Allen]

We'll give her the point temperature, but.

[Tig Notaro]

Come on, that's pretty impressive.

[John Lovett]

That's amazing. That's amazing.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's not even that weird.

[John Lovett]

12 years. This is why when I say I thought it was serendipitous that you were here. What an interesting and exemplary couple.

[Tig Notaro]

Thank you.

[Stephanie Allen]

My whole cup. All right, Ari.

[Tig Notaro]

So we have. Also, aside from indoor problems, we also have indoor weird habits too, you know? Right.

[John Lovett]

I love that.

[Tig Notaro]

Right? Am I right?

[Stephanie Allen]

Right, Ladies, save it for the bathtub. Ari, would you mind revealing your weirdest habit? Bringing up to do list items right before we fall asleep for things months away. Great.

[John Lovett]

Excellent. Wow. First of all, I feel very seen by that answer.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my God. Don't tell me it's the cup in the bathtub.

[John Lovett]

No, it's A similar. I would say this. It is connected. You will see how it is connected. If Ari leaves the house, they must shower when getting home. No exceptions. Even if it was just like 10 minutes, that once you're outside, you are unclean.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I like your style, Ari.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, I'm real clean.

[Tig Notaro]

Love it.

[Stephanie Allen]

All right.

[John Lovett]

But yes, that does happen. But that relates to my item earlier where I said I like to put off little tasks forever until we die.

[Stephanie Allen]

And I like to talk about them as I fall asleep. And I think weird is annoying. Annoying is weird. So really it is the same question. We just reworded it and that somehow was the game.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Thank you.

[Stephanie Allen]

Thank you so much, everybody.

[John Lovett]

Thank you. Holly Kiefer, everybody.

[Stephanie Allen]

Thank you very much.

[John Lovett]

Ari Schwartz. Well, in celebration of this milestone, I'm here. We're introducing a segment called 80 for 80. 80. For those at home.

[Stephanie Allen]

We are.

[Henry Winkler]

Is that me?

[John Lovett]

That is a version of you, of what could have been. This is 80 for 80 in the style of 80 for Brady. Yeah, I think we look great.

[Henry Winkler]

No.

[John Lovett]

And so we have. We're going to try to get through as many of 80 questions as we can. In honor of your 80th birthday, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, officially declared October 30th. Henry Winkler Day. Happy Days was set in Milwaukee. Yes. Previously have erected the bronze Fonce.

[Henry Winkler]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Do you have to be able to pull off a leather jacket to achieve your level of acclaim? You think?

[Henry Winkler]

Do you know, I was not able to wear leather in the beginning. I had to wear cloth because ABC thought I would be associated with crime.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

So.

[Henry Winkler]

And it very hard to be cool in cloth.

[John Lovett]

I am not kidding.

[Henry Winkler]

The collar did not stay up.

[John Lovett]

It's very funny to imagine a time in which this was dangerous. This sweet character with his leather jacket and white T shirt. We had Rob Reiner on. And Rob Reiner had played a tough in the style of the Fonz, where he had worn a leather jacket. But it's like, I'm sorry, but this is just a sweet Jewish boy on a. On a motorcycle.

[Henry Winkler]

Well, they wanted a tall Italian and they got a short Jew. That is true. But I loved it. I really did. I loved. And you know, my parents would. Were shorter than I was and they were from Germany and they were really not supportive at all. And they would call me Dummerhunt, which means dumb dog.

[John Lovett]

What? Yes.

[Henry Winkler]

Because I'm very dyslexic, so I didn't do well. I'm in the bottom 3% academically in America. And then that jacket. I called my parents, I said, well, Dumahunt's jacket is now in the Smithsonian.

[John Lovett]

Wow. Did you ever feel insecure about being short?

[Henry Winkler]

I feel insecure about almost every single thing. It is only in the last 10 years, I saw myself as a. Honest to God, as a block of Swiss cheese filled with holes. And in the last 10 years, I have tried to make myself into a block of cheddar.

[John Lovett]

What is it? So you really feel like. So when you turned 70, you were carrying some of the insecurities you carried when you were being called?

[Henry Winkler]

Without a doubt.

[John Lovett]

Really?

[Henry Winkler]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

And in the last decade, you shed.

[Henry Winkler]

Some because, you know, unless you actually do some work, you are who you are, and that doesn't go away. No matter what changes your age, your physicality, the inside pretty much stays the same. It is really up to you to make yourself more whole.

[John Lovett]

And do you think you talked about being dyslexic? One of the children's book that's just coming out. Right. Or one of the children's books you've written recently.

[Henry Winkler]

Okay. Can I brag?

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Henry Winkler]

All right. The 40th. My 40th children's book came out September 30th.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Thank you.

[Henry Winkler]

Can I. I would like to say, and no pressure at all, but the holidays are coming and I. It's about a little duckling who dreams about being a detective, and she's an environmentalist.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. And the duck is not dyslexic.

[Henry Winkler]

The duck is not dyslexic.

[John Lovett]

But there's an overachiever.

[Henry Winkler]

The writer is.

[John Lovett]

Yes, but didn't you write Hank Zipser?

[Henry Winkler]

Hank Zipser. 28 novels about a little boy, Me. Okay, Great. Great story. PS 87. I went to PS 87 on 78, just up the block from where I was born and raised and grew up on 78th between Broadway and Amsterdam. So P.S. 87. And I went there, and I read Hank Zipser because he also goes to PS 87. You write what you know. And so I went to an award show, and there was Timothy Chalamet. And I went up and I said, I have to shake your hand because you are really terrific at what you do. He said, I'm a hugger. And so he gave me a hug. I was thrilled. And then he said, the first time you came to PS 87 with Hank Zipser, I was in the fourth grade, and I was in the audience when you read the book.

[John Lovett]

Oh, my God. Wow. Little Timothy.

[Henry Winkler]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

But the boy in that book has dyslexia.

[David Krumholtz]

He.

[Henry Winkler]

He is me.

[John Lovett]

He is you. Yes. And you had.

[Henry Winkler]

So the Emotionality of that little boy in the book is true. And the comedy, my writing partner, Lynn Oliver, the comedy we made up.

[John Lovett]

But what I guess I'm. What I'm asking is, do you think your insecurities came from dyslexia? Like, how much of a role has dyslexia played in driving you? Well, you.

[Henry Winkler]

I took geometry for four years. Same course. I took it in regular school and in summer school. Regular school, summer school, regular school, summer school. And I finally passed it with a D minus so I could go to the one college that accepted me, Emerson in Boston. And thank you. Yeah, I got in. And I nearly got kicked out, but I got in. And from that day in August of 1963 that I passed with a D minus, not one person has ever said hypotenuse to me.

[John Lovett]

But sometimes you're figuring out which direction to go and then you think, I.

[Henry Winkler]

Know my left because it's the arm I stick out the window when I'm driving. That's how I know my left.

[John Lovett]

Really? I struggle with that too. You know what I struggle with? I have to get in the map. Like on Friends. I gotta rotate that map. Whatever direction I'm facing, I gotta turn the map fully around. Is that true? Yeah.

[Henry Winkler]

I can't read the map.

[John Lovett]

Boy, we'd be terrible in the Amazing Race. Or would we? Hey, don't go anywhere.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Sundays. We all love the idea of feeding our dogs real fresh food. But the reality is that fresh dog food usually means taking up freezer space, time to thaw and prep, then a lot of mess when you serve it. Get the good without the hassle with sundaes. Sundaes was founded by veterinarian and mom, Dr. Tori Waxman who got tired of seeing so called premium dog food full of fillers and synthetics. So she designed sundaes air dried real food made in a human grade kitchen using the same ingredients and care you'd use to cook for yourself and your family. Every bite of sundaes is clean and made from real meat, fruits and veggies with no kibble. Get that kibble out of there. That means no weird ingredients you can't pronounce and no fillers compared to kibble or other brands out there. Sundaes invest 50 times more in its ingredients to ensure premium quality. Because your dog deserves food made with care, not in the interest of cost cutting. And the best part, you just scoop and serve no Freezer, no thawing or prep, no mess. Just nutrient rich, clean food that fuels their happiest, healthiest days so you can get more of them to share together. You gotta feed your dog great dog food that's healthy. Sundays is great. Leo likes Sundays. I like the air dried dog food. You get the best of it being healthy and not kind of the bad stuff. But also you have to deal with the fridge stuff or the defrosting the food. So I think it's great. If you give your dog healthy dog food, you're going to notice more energy, better mood, more calm, more focused. They won't need extra time when they take the sats. Softer coat, less itching, no eye boogers.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

Finally they've cured eye boogers and better stool. That sounds good. Make the switch to Sundays go right. Maybe I'll eat it. Make this wish to Sundays go right now to sundaysfordogs.com love it. Get 50% off your first order. Or you can use code Love it at checkout. That's 50% off your first order at Sundays for dogs dot com. Love it. Sundays for dogs dot com love it. Or use code Love it at checkout. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

[Henry Winkler]

You know one of the perks about.

[John Lovett]

Having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to.

[Henry Winkler]

The big man up north.

[John Lovett]

And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can.

[Henry Winkler]

Give someone is the gift of Mint.

[John Lovett]

Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only.

[Stephanie Allen]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes. If network's busy, taxes and fees extra.

[Sarah Lazarus]

See mint mobile.com.

[John Lovett]

Up next, Alex English, Punky Johnson and River Butcher took the bench to form our nation's first gay Supreme Court. And we found Pete Buttigieg for president by reason of sanity. Following that, Jean Marco Cerese and Roy Wood Jr. Wake us up about the future of late night at Montreal's Just for Laughs Comedy Festival. Mere days after Stephen Colbert got the ax from cbs.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

And also while we on the subject of education, look, since we on the Supreme Court, look, I get it. Like black. Like black history is American history and it should be taught, but not in every school. I feel like, I feel like white people. I don't really need y' all to know black history like that. Like it's actually none of y' all business. It's actually really none of that. Cause, like, have you ever met, like, a white dude who went to NYU who learned about black history? That's the most annoying motherfucker you've ever met. Like, one time I was talking to a dude, one of these types of dudes, and he was like, you know, he was talking to me about black history. He kept referencing shit that I kind of didn't know, but instead of being like, oh, yeah, that's cool. I'm like, get the fuck out of my face, dawg. Fuck you telling me about James Baldwin for fucking.

[John Lovett]

I don't give a.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Like, get the fuck on, bitch.

[Stephanie Allen]

Like this.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Telling me about my shit? This my shit.

[Stephanie Allen]

He was trying to be a friend.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Nah, he's being racist. That's racist. I don't know how it's racist. I can't tell you exactly why it's racist, but I felt racial. I felt racial.

[John Lovett]

Hey, that's it. Your feelings are valid, and we are not gonna question your feelings. Not on this stage. How about that?

[Jean Marco Cerese]

I still feel targeted.

[John Lovett]

All right, last one. On a recent episode of his podcast, Tucker Carlson accused Pete Boot judge of being secretly straight. I've always wanted to interview him. He's never agreed to interview, but I'm going to ask him, like, some very specific questions about gay sex and see if he can even answer. I doubt he even knows.

[Stephanie Allen]

I love how, like, excited he got.

[John Lovett]

About really specific gay sex questions. But look, I. I think he's right.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

About being a judge. That dude said he would take a.

[Stephanie Allen]

Pill to be straight. Yeah, right.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

I mean, who among us he said that?

[John Lovett]

And that doesn't exist. Well, I think you go through that phase. I think some people go through that phase of self hating where he thought he would take a pill to stop being gay, but I don't think he'd take the pill anymore. Cause then what? He has a husband and kids.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

I mean, he's literally the gayest. He got a husband and kids. Listen, man. Listen, man. He's from. Where he from? Indiana.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that's right.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

That's the kind of white dude who want to be straight.

[John Lovett]

I get it.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

He went to the military, all that shit. I understand Pete.

[Stephanie Allen]

I mean, fuck, he could have stayed in the closet. All that.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Listen, y'.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

All.

[John Lovett]

Listen, y'. All. For a while.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Listen. We not gonna get. We not gonna get. You know, my fellow Americans, that's not how we get. We not gonna get that. And Pete is not that. This is why this motherfucker can Run for office, dog. Like, he could be the first gay president. Cause this motherfucker on paper is the president. He was mayor in fucking middle of nowhere, fucking Indiana. He went to the military, went to the fucking top college.

[Stephanie Allen]

He was tripping.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

That's a straight man. That's a straight white man.

[John Lovett]

All paper.

[Stephanie Allen]

He was tripping.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

But this motherfucker sucks.

[Stephanie Allen]

He should have pulled the Beyonce. He should have pulled the fucking bm.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Let me tell you something.

[Stephanie Allen]

He should have faked it till he fucking made it and then hit us with one of these when he became president.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

But that's not him, because America's not gonna vote for this shit right now.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's why he should have faked it. That's why he should have faked like a straight white man. He has zero got voted in act like he was fucking bitches and then hit us with the walking, walking dope.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

I somewhat. You should have faked it. I agree with that. But also, I just think, you know, like, for him, it's like, listen, I'm trying to be here for all y'.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

All.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

If y' all would just shut the fuck up, dog. Shut the fuck up. Let me. That was same thing with Hillary. Hillary should have been like all them white women, shut the fuck up. Let me do this. He could have.

[Tig Notaro]

Really.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Cause like, the thing is Pete.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Pete.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Pete exists. Let me tell you something.

[John Lovett]

Are you arguing for Pete?

[Jean Marco Cerese]

I'm arguing for Pete because. Let me tell you why. Because my mom. My mom, during the campaign. Here's campaign for presidency, my mom, at some point, she got on the horn and she called me. She was like, I'm thinking about voting for Pete. And y' all don't know my mama. I'm like, you just was okay with me being gay yesterday, and now you want a motherfucker that suck dick to run your country? That's progress. And my mama is light skinned and in the same sorority as Kamala Harris. And I'm telling y' all right now, y' all not ready for them kind of problems.

[John Lovett]

Counterpoint. No, I'm kidding.

[Stephanie Allen]

Like, I fucking said he would have made a great president. He should have faked it like Beyonce when everybody was like, damn, Beyonce black. We should have been saying that about Pete. Oh, shit, Peter.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Fruit cup.

[Stephanie Allen]

Hell yeah, he a fucking fruit cup. I like fruit cups.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

You sound like my uncle.

[Stephanie Allen]

Ain't nothing wrong with a fruit. No, the problem here go the thing. The problem is not the fact that he gay. This is why America fucking make me sick. Why the fuck it got to be about being gay. What about who he is as a motherfucking person? He's a good person. You know, he's worthy of the goddamn job. He got the stats. He did the fucking work. He did the homework.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

He's a man of God.

[Stephanie Allen]

He's a man of America because he gay. He ain't fucking qualified, man. Fuck y' all niggas, man. Pete, bitch.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Pete, bitch.

[Stephanie Allen]

Pete, bitch.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

You be on his next campaign.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Peak.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Peak.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's what it is.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

And I. Pete, if you out there, if you watching this, hire this, okay? She will get you.

[Stephanie Allen]

People out here listening to that. Was never in the military, didn't complete.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

College, don't know what.

[Stephanie Allen]

They just up here making up their own theories and ideologies. You got people listening to these. Ain't about Pete.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Pete.

[John Lovett]

Pete. This week, the nation reeled as CBS canceled the Late show with Stephen Colbert, which will end next year. The announcement came on the heels of Trump's settlement with CBS's parent company, Paramount. And Donald Trump took to truth social to gloat, saying, I absolutely love that Colbert got fired. What were Stephen Colbert's three words in response to the President? Gianmarco. You take it.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

Fuck you, Trump.

[John Lovett]

It's incorrect.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Go fuck yourself.

[John Lovett]

That's correct.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

That's so harsh. I feel like Trump is Colbert's most loyal viewer. I mean, it's such a case of sore winning. I feel like Trump would want Colbert there. I mean, Colbert, let's people like my mom blow off steam. You know, once that show's canceled, my mom's gonna be like, fuck. I guess I have to storm the Capitol now. Did anyone see the south park episode last night? So this is what happens. He's such a sore winner, he gets rid of Colbert. Now south park, who just secured a $1.5 billion deal with Paramount plus, released an episode where they just talk shit about Trump and how small his penis is for the entire episode. It ends, it ends with a 2 minute AI generated video of Trump walking through the desert, stripping down fully nude. And then his penis saying, this message is endorsed by Donald Trump. And now Paramount plus can cancel their deal, but they still have to pay $1.5 billion. You should have stuck with the enemy you knew.

[John Lovett]

Roy, you've been in a late night game for a long time. What was your reaction to the Colbert news?

[Gianmarco Cerese]

It was, you don't do it like that if it's about budget. You get an opportunity to trim fat and find solutions. Colbert was not given that Jimmy Fallon's facing budget issues, they go to Four nights a week, Seth Meyers faces budget issues. They got rid of the 8G ban. Jimmy Kimmel and them. They have their issues. And so Jimmy takes more time off during the summer. I know a lot of that. It's about the stress of late night in politics and wanting to be around his son more. But it still helps the budget if you have guest hosts. So to say that Colbert is over budget and then you just immediately go, we're gonna cancel it. That means that either you hate the man or you just really do not have a plan. And I know that late night's at a tough pinch because this is still the same network. To Paramount's credit, Cordon leaves you replace it with Taylor Tomlinson with After Midnight, which is a much, much cheaper show to do. And when Taylor decides to not come back, rather than look for a new host, rather than replace her on the cheaper show, they just said, fuck it, we're not even gonna replace that. And they air literally episodes of Comics Unleashed with Byron Allen from 15 years ago in that time slot, which just shows you what they think of the value proposition of that time sign. That's not a dig at Byron Allen. I'm just saying that they're content with just whatever the fuck is. Just like it put it up there. We're talking about episodes of TV still in standard the square shit. Like, it's. So are they trying to abandon late night as a format? I think that they definitely are trying to figure out a way to do it a different way, but I don't know that they have the solution. I don't know if they are younger.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

His name is Greg Gutfeld. I mean, late night's a lot cheaper when you don't have writers. You know what I mean?

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Yeah.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

Have you ever seen that? Have you ever seen Gutfeld? Yeah, I've seen Goodfellow. It's got the jokes.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

I thought they had writers.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

They do, but they're not putting their own.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Gutfeld is technically a primetime show, and I'm tired of people categorized. If we're gonna get. Pardon us for a second. The sag aftra talk right now.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

It doesn't come on after 11:30, so technically it's not a late night show. But he keeps saying he's the king of late night. But you're not. You're the king of primetime unscripted. That could be late night if it were on an hour fucking later. It's not. Stop lying to the people and I'll say that. Even shit like Gutfeld makes me laugh. Sometimes, but it's still.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

Wait, what? Does it make you laugh?

[Gianmarco Cerese]

There are punchlines every blue movie.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

Oh, my God. There's more editing in that than an Epstein prison video.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

My point is that network television clearly does not have a solution for how to create a profitable product at 11:30 or 12:30. So much so that rather than brainstorm something, we'll just air something from the vault in the meantime. And I feel like next year, or I think in two years when the rest of the boys contracts are up across the networks, it's going to be interesting to see what happens. I think we'll end up seeing something that is very similar to what is happening in sports. If you watch sports television, they go, oh, you got a good podcast. Here's four years, 80 mil. Pat McAfee, just come do that shit over here. That's easier than developing a show. And I think you'll see something similar like that, you know, like a show that maybe has three pink couches, that already has a following that could, you.

[John Lovett]

Know, they know where to find me, and yet they never seem to look. But the plan was for this always to be a podcast for a decade now. That was the plan from the fucking beginning. The Late show loses apparently $50 million in its current formation, but there's $1.5 billion for South Park. So $50 million, in the grand scheme of things is a rounding error for Paramount, which is a $30 billion revenue business. The fact that they have decided that the Late show brand, a marquee historic legacy institution, which we do not make more of. We don't make more of these globally known brands in media that are from before social media, whether it's the fact that all of our Movie stars are 60 years old or the fact that these. We don't make them anymore. And the fact that they can't find a way or don't want to find a way to get the value out of the Late show, which still gets millions of views on YouTube, which still could be something that exists on streaming, that could do all. They have chosen that they don't want to find a way to make this worse because they don't want the headache. Because all these big companies that kind of sucked up the NBC's, Disney owns ABC, Comcast buys NBC, Paramount owns CBS. All these companies sucked up, all these American icons and institutions because they saw synergies, because they saw prestige, because billionaires thought it would be fun to talk about or to go to the premieres back when there was no risk, because there wasn't a president who exploited and abused his office to put his thumb on the scales to try to get coverage he liked. Right. And so all those threats about how dangerous corporate media would be have become true. And when these guys are finally tested, because it actually costs something to have a comedian on every night making fun of the president, they just don't care.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

But I do think we have to acknowledge the fact that a lot of late nights, and I understand that in reaction to Trump, it felt like the entertainment had to become as partisan as could be because it felt like there was something so, so evil that you had to focus all your attention on it. That I did think it did not criticize power in general. It criticized one side of power. And the problem with that is I did think you created a partisan late night that did turn off a lot of people. I'm not saying that they should have been nicer to Trump by any means. In fact, I think they should have been meaner to all people in power or more apolitical, one of the two you choose. But I do think there's a reality where you late night people love to talk about how Carson was apolitical and that allowed him to host any award show and everyone could enjoy it and allowed him to be a kind of figure in American culture that everyone could enjoy. Now, you could argue that with someone as fascistic as Trump that you shouldn't have anyone who isn't just just targeting him every single time. But I do think comedy and comedians in general lean too hard into focusing on one particular thing that they lost a lot of people. What's so interesting about south park going this hard is because they have a lot of credit where they never really pandered to anyone. And I do think late night and comedy, and political comedy in general has to step back and look at how we critique not just one side of things, but that you're constantly so you can bring in more people. I don't think you have a tent for shows the same way political party has tent. And you need to build a tent around making fun of those in power, whether it's Hillary Clinton, whether it's Trump, whether it's Nancy Pelosi, whether it's convenient to the moment, or whether you feel that an election is coming up. The moment you start isolating and you push people away and then you never bring them in, and then you never sway anyone's mind. And your entire audience are people who just are being pandered to and kind of get some steam off every night. And I Do think there's a consequence to that. And I'm not saying Colbert should have been canceled. And obviously I think the reasons are just to pander to Trump for this deal. But I do think Late Night has to take comedy, has to take accountability of what it is to in the face of something that feels so evil to still criticize the people that enabled him. Cuz it's not just him, it's the people who enabled him. And a lot of those are Democrats.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

But what you're talking about is noble. It's very noble. But it's not maximum profit. Because if you've created a show that has somehow one day woken up this far on the left side of every issue to stand in the pocket and do exactly what you're talking about, well, now you're gonna rankle the one couple of people that are giving you a ratings bump at a time where TV is dying. Jon Stewart, to his credit, the first day Jon Stewart came back last year, he called Joe Biden old. That was like literally 30 seconds into the episode and they were all, oh, how could you?

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

That's why he's one of the greats.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

And now look, now it's like, well, shit, he was old. And even the crackhead agreed. And I think where Trey Parker and Matt Stone differ is that they have never had to taste the dopamine of public ovulation. And that is a difficult drug to fucking turn off and go, I'm gonna stand in this pocket and be hated and I'm okay with that.

[John Lovett]

Hey, don't go anywhere.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Gianmarco Cerese]

Genius move.

[John Lovett]

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[Stephanie Allen]

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[John Lovett]

Next up we have Robbie Hoffman and Rachel Bloom, who joined for a very special episode. Both my parents and my future in laws were in the audience. Even my 10 year old nephew Bennett got to take part. Specifically the part where Rachel wasn't talking about the idea of pegging her husband in this clip. It's that even saying it now, it sounds crazy. In this clip we review classic Jewish stereotypes and celebrate the queers. Truly, it was a Passover to remember. Speaking of Jews, I also make David Krumholtz and Anna Gasteyer pick their favorite New York curmudgeons during maybe the happiest week in recent Big Apple memory. The week Zoran Mamdani officially became the next mayor of New York. Also, Danny DeVito. Fans, beware, you're in for a scare. Robby and Rachel, I think it's fair to say that it's part of our collective Jewish heritage to shy away from exhibiting any traits that Goyam might consider cliche. For example, using the word goy in front of the goyim. However, in the spirit of Passover, I wanted to give all of us an opportunity tonight to lighten our mental load by embracing some Semitic stereotypes in a segment we're calling if the Jew Fits, I will serve up a Jewish stereotype. And Robby and Rachel, you'll tell us whether or not the stereotype resonates with you. First up, complaining. Kvetching. What's wrong with complaining?

[Sarah Lazarus]

To complain is to enjoy. To me, they're one and the same. I could be on A yacht and find it too shaky. It doesn't mean. It doesn't mean. It means I'm enjoying. I'm alive. I'm in the experience.

[Stephanie Allen]

There's something that I find baffling. Why are Jews so cold?

[John Lovett]

Or hot.

[Stephanie Allen]

Or hot. My family. You can't be under a draft. My grandfather, when my mom was growing up, they would have to restaurant hop if the restaurant was too cold. But we come from. I mean, some of. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

Guess we're a desert people.

[Stephanie Allen]

Well, I guess.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Allen]

Look, if we're talking OG desert people, so I guess it's not. But it gets cold in the desert, too. I was gonna say in Europe, too.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, for sure.

[Stephanie Allen]

So it depends how long your DNA is remembering back. I understand Jews are cold.

[John Lovett]

They are cold. We were in Mexico at a really nice hotel over the holidays. Excuse me, not to brag. We've been to Mexico. So we're there and we're sitting. We're sitting at this, and we watch this. We were there around Hanukkah, so we knew who all the Jews were because we had done a candle lighting. And so then we're sitting at this table and we watch just Jewish family after Jewish family just say no to this one table. They just got walked to the table. Ari remembers this. And they were like, nope. And they would get walked to another table, and then another Jewish family came. They tried to say that, nope, it was behind a Pole. They couldn't see the view.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

What?

[John Lovett]

Moved? Moved. Three Jewish families said no to this table. And then a lovely, very clearly not Jewish couple are sat at this table. They eat their whole meal and they're so happy. And at the end, the man said the most kind of Christian thing I've ever heard, which is, he turned to the waiter and said, said, would you please send the chef our compliments? I don't think a Jew's ever said that.

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Sarah Lazarus]

I always have envy for these type of people because it takes me so much. I feel like. It's like if you get started watching porn, then you need crazier and crazier porn. These type of people, it's like sometimes I'm on a plane. I was on a plane next to just a regular Midwestern type of lady. She must have been mid-50s. She ordered Pinot Grigio, whatever. She's watching Mall Cox Cop 2. Not Mall Cop 1. Mall Cop 2. Kevin James in a mall.

[Stephanie Allen]

The Paul Blart one. What?

[Sarah Lazarus]

Paul Blart?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Go on.

[John Lovett]

Paul Blart.

[Sarah Lazarus]

I don't know.

[John Lovett]

Was It Paul Blart, Kevin James.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, it's Paul. I don't know. I don't know why I'm connecting. It feels like I'm correcting Kevin James pronouns, but it's. I'm not. It's just.

[Sarah Lazarus]

It's Paul.

[John Lovett]

I think it's Paul Blart.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Have you seen King of Queens? I love that show. Anyway, she is. This lady is sitting next to me. I'm middle C. This lady. It's like, even the setup to any joke, she's already dying. She's like, plotstow, like, she's like, fucking dying. Then as soon as the joke hits whatever, the slapstick, stupid. He falls off the thing. She's. The wine is everywhere.

[Tig Notaro]

Like, she is.

[Sarah Lazarus]

She's dying at this movie. And meanwhile, I'm still looking for something to watch. It takes me so long the. To find something. And this lady could just throw on whatever's there and enjoy her life. And I have an envy for these people.

[John Lovett]

Absolutely. No, I know. It is. There's something about. It's beautiful. You're just sort of like, that's so cool.

[Sarah Lazarus]

They just enjoy so much.

[Stephanie Allen]

I still get like that when it comes. Like, I will rewatch any of the Austin Powers, and I'm back to being in middle school. And like, a couple weeks ago, I was like, my daughter has to see Austin Powers. And so I turn on Austin Powers, too. And the first thing is like, fat Bastard having just fucked Heather Graham. And I'm like, nope, never mind. She will not see Austin Powers next to you.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Have you seen.

[Stephanie Allen]

Has your nephew seen Austin Powers?

[Sarah Lazarus]

Okay.

[Stephanie Allen]

It's pretty funny, right where he goes, I've got big pieces of corn in my crap. That's really good.

[John Lovett]

So he's seen some of this stuff.

[Stephanie Allen]

I have kids.

[John Lovett]

He knows about it.

[Sarah Lazarus]

How old's the nephew? How old is Bennett Benny, how old are you?

[John Lovett]

Oh, he's back.

[Stephanie Allen]

What is.

[Tig Notaro]

No, bro.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Nine is too young.

[John Lovett]

Wait, I thought you're ten. You're nine.

[Sarah Lazarus]

No, nine is really young. And actually, I don't. I can't guarantee my performance.

[John Lovett]

Oh, my God. We got to jump ahead. We got to jump ahead.

[Stephanie Allen]

Can I also say for the record, though, my five year old completely understands gay people. It's not for anyone who's like, how are you gonna make for anyone who's like, don't kiss in front of my kid. Are you gonna make me explain gay people to my kid? It's really easy. You just say, some men love men and some women love women. They go, okay, it's so fun. It is true.

[Sarah Lazarus]

The first time I heard about a trans person or anything like that was our cousin Pinsky, who was enormous. He was the size of the car, and he was the greatest guy. And he would come to visit us, and we don't. I don't even know how he's my cousin, but it's like, Pinsky's in. He's got candy. And so we're in, and Pinsky showed up. His girlfriend must have been six, four. So we're like, this is the tallest lady we've ever seen. And we went up to my mother, and my mother was just, like, making, like, making. And I'm like, mom, what's up with this? Like, and we were, like, all asking her, like, me, my brother Shmuel. It's like, why? Like, Binsky's girlfriend is so tall. Like, just the tallest girl we ever. And we kept saying, how tall are you? You're your kid. How tall are you? You know? And she was happy to tell us and whatever. And I was like, what's with Binsky? And she goes, she. She was born a boy and now she's a girl. And I'm like, ah, okay. And it totally made it sense. It made it. That's why she's tall. Like, it was like, oh, I must have been like five or six years old. I'm like, oh, makes sense. And we all moved on. That was the end of that. There was no follow up. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay. And then we just. Yeah. And so. And he just was like, he was with the trans woman for years and years. We never knew she was a trans. We never even had that language. But we just knew. She's like, now she likes to be a girl. But it never came up past that again. It was just like. We figured it out, so it's very easy. And then you don't have. If you make it a bigger deal. It's like if a kid falls.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's fine if you make it a big deal.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Oh, what happened?

[Sarah Lazarus]

They're gonna be screaming, crying.

[John Lovett]

It's almost like we need to take the whole conservative movement and just when. And then show them a bunch of trans and gay people and just go, you're okay. It's no big deal. You're okay. You're fine.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Just.

[John Lovett]

You're gonna get up and run around and have a good time with your friends. You're okay. Yeah, you're okay. You're a tough little guy. You're okay.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Exactly.

[John Lovett]

Have you have any experiences with some classic curmudgeons?

[David Krumholtz]

Yes. I worked. They're both dead, so I can bash them.

[John Lovett]

It's Dick Cheney. You were telling me back.

[David Krumholtz]

What's that?

[John Lovett]

Dick Cheney.

[David Krumholtz]

Dick Cheney.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

I worked with him very closely.

[John Lovett]

What up?

[David Krumholtz]

Just constantly complaining about his back.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

No.

[David Krumholtz]

I don't know. I worked with Alan Arkin, who was quite curmudgeony and hilarious and lovely and way funnier when he was angry than when he was trying to be funny. You ever be. You ever around someone where they get super duper angry and it's the funniest thing you've ever seen and you have to hide your laughter? He would notice.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

I see.

[David Krumholtz]

It's not even funny. I don't know why you're laughing. I was standing on a bridge in Nova Scotia, looking out over a lake, and I thought, I should kill myself, so I'm gonna throw myself in the lake instead. I decided to spend the rest of my life working on myself.

[John Lovett]

I was like, wow. And now it's time for a game. We're calling Arma Khomudjageddon. Here's how it works. I'm gonna name her curmudgeon who's either from New York or really seems like they should be David and Anna. You're going to blind rank that mudge on a scale of one to five, with one being the most mudgeonly. But you won't know who the next curmudge will be.

[Stephanie Allen]

Ooh, this is.

[John Lovett]

You're ranking them from one to five. But you may. You have to be careful because you don't know who'll be next.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

Okay. First up.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. I'm checking to see if she understands it as well. Yes. Okay.

[John Lovett]

I just want to make sure everyone's comfortable.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm fine.

[Stephanie Allen]

This is fun.

[John Lovett]

Remember Oppenheimer?

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm ready. Yes.

[John Lovett]

We have Vermont senator and Brooklyn's native son, Bernie Sanders.

[David Krumholtz]

Oh, man.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

Here's the classic photo from Biden's inauguration.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I was once interviewing Bernie Sanders, and mid question, he went. He leaned back and looked to his aid and went, that's real. That really happened to me. It was a real blow. It was a real blow. That's curmudgeon behavior. That's curmudgeon behavior. Ana, where do you think. Where do you think you're going to rank?

[David Krumholtz]

Okay, I'm just going to say he has messages of hope that are veiled under messages of doom and dread. So I'm going to say he's a Three. I'm not going to give him the number one spot.

[John Lovett]

One is the most curmudgeonous.

[David Krumholtz]

I'm going to say three, because he is.

[Stephanie Allen]

I think I was actually going to say the exact same thing. So much of it is about hope and optimism. I'm going to. Yeah. So five is our top.

[John Lovett]

Five would be the least curmudgeonly.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yes. I'm gonna say three. I'm in consensus here.

[John Lovett]

Next up, we have Fran Leibowitz.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

One thing about leaving your apartment is that there are so many other people out there. The great thing about my apartment, aside from the fact that it's a great apartment, is that I control if there are other people in it. A classic curmudgeon sentence.

[David Krumholtz]

If I'd ever heard one, I'm gonna go, you know what? She's really. Yeah, I'm gonna say number one. I'm gonna take a risk and say she's the most curmudgeoning New Yorker.

[Stephanie Allen]

I'm gonna just say two, because we gotta do the math. You like math?

[John Lovett]

I do. I do like math. Okay, a two from Anna. Next up, Larry David. Where are we on the Caroline? Where are we in the rankings to this point? Because we're going to have to put him in a slot.

[David Krumholtz]

That makes sense to me because it's all a joke. It's all a bit. His mind works. He's a comedy machine. It's all a bit. Do I think he's like that in real life? Probably to some extent.

[Stephanie Allen]

He's very much that in real life.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. I saw him.

[Stephanie Allen]

I had to fake an orgasm for four hours on a car rig driving around Park Avenue up and down. Cause I did an episode of Curb where my running board of my car was broken and we were on a date. And by the time we pulled up in front of my apartment, he was like, do you want to go up? And I was like, no, I'm good. So that's like, a long time to chat with someone in between fake orgasms. Four hours just going around and around. And he's hilarious, but he's a crank.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

What an amazing achievement to make. I don't feel like talking to people, and sometimes I'm in a bad mood. Your delightful brand. And he can just walk out of any room he wants at any time. And everyone's like, classic Larry.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yes.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Brilliant.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

What a genius.

[Stephanie Allen]

And to take everything insane he's ever done and make an incredible piece of television out of it. I mean, he. You know, he really did famously storm out of Saturday Night Live, which absolutely everybody has at one point or another wanted to do, and several people have. But where he like threw his pages and stormed out. He famously tells the story. He was one of the things we talked about. We were driving around the block.

[David Krumholtz]

Have you ever quit a job?

[Stephanie Allen]

No, I'm the worst. I just put up with abuse, take it on and have a lot of extra therapy.

[David Krumholtz]

And I had to quit one once.

[Stephanie Allen]

You did.

[David Krumholtz]

Because of a curmudgeon.

[Stephanie Allen]

Okay, go on.

[David Krumholtz]

Absolutely hated me. And every time I told him I loved him, it made him hate me more. And, and, and you have had him on this show and he fucking loathes me. And I was lovely to him. I worshiped the. I would have combed his hair if he asked me to.

[John Lovett]

And he's been on this show. He has.

[David Krumholtz]

Goddammit.

[Stephanie Allen]

Well, that's that. Yeah.

[David Krumholtz]

And he's curmudgeonly. One of his most iconic characters is an incredibly curmudgeony person. You know who I'm talking about?

[John Lovett]

I don't.

[David Krumholtz]

Okay, now maybe we should leave it that way.

[John Lovett]

We'll leave it there for. That's where we'll leave it.

[Jean Marco Cerese]

Oh, oh, you want the.

[David Krumholtz]

No, I'll say it. Danny DeVito fucking hated me and it was so bad that I had to quit.

[Stephanie Allen]

What?

[John Lovett]

What happened?

[David Krumholtz]

It was unbelievable. I don't want to tell the story, but it was unbelievable. Look, he had just gotten sober and gone vegan at the same time. That's a mistake.

[Stephanie Allen]

Too many changes. It's too many changes.

[John Lovett]

Too many changes.

[David Krumholtz]

Too many changes.

[John Lovett]

You can't give up alcohol and, and meat protein.

[Stephanie Allen]

You got to have a Big Mac and an NA beer.

[David Krumholtz]

He cursed me out one day. So bad for the. But I said there was a line. We're doing this play. And I was doing the. We were in rehearsals and there was a line where I say, hey, you know, you could go to the. The actors home in New Brunswick.

[John Lovett]

Is the line.

[David Krumholtz]

I don't know if you guys know what play that is, and I'm not.

[John Lovett]

Going to tell you.

[David Krumholtz]

But anyway. And I said in rehearsal, you know, I said, well, there's the actors home in New Brunswick. And he said, wait a second, is there a question mark at the end of that line? And I said, I said, well, no. Then why do you say it like a question? I said, I don't know, just rehearsal. And he says, say the fucking line. And that was after a long string of abuse and I thought. And my wife was pregnant with my first child and I had like all this insecure I was like, freaking out, and I was like. I said, I need a break. And I went outside and I called my dad. And my dad was a New York City mailman, worked his ass off. Had to be at work at 2am every morning for 30 years. And he was always the guy that was like, take the money and don't complain about anything. So I knew and I called him and he was like, you quit? He was so upset. And then I told him the story, and he said, good for you, son. Don't take shit from anybody. And I went back in and I said, I'm sorry, but this is not for me. And I'll never forget, he was sitting on a bed and he got up, which wasn't much of a change. And he looked at me and he said, the. And I said, I can't make you happy, man. Nasty. You hate me. Cursing me out in front of everybody. I saying a line. What the. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

This broke my heart.

[David Krumholtz]

Really, Truly.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, but you did the right thing. You did the right thing. I would have cried, too, but you would have. You did the right thing.

[David Krumholtz]

I did the right thing. Yeah.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Really? You did.

[David Krumholtz]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Stephanie Allen]

Because by the way, too, it's eight a week. It's rehearsal. Like, that's not gonna get better.

[David Krumholtz]

And look, he's probably a lovely guy. He was going through a very difficult time.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I kind of wanted to be a recipe.

[David Krumholtz]

And I just want to say that although no one. If this ever gets out, no one's gonna see this part, whereas no one's.

[John Lovett]

Gonna include the podcast.

[David Krumholtz]

I have compassion for the curmudgeon, and I'll tell you why. No doubt Fran Leibowitz is incontinent. No doubt. And if you were walking around with a giant shit between your ass cheeks.

[Stephanie Allen]

80% of these people have IBS. That is true. It just goes with the territory.

[David Krumholtz]

Right?

[Stephanie Allen]

It's. There's a reason they call it a sour stomach.

[John Lovett]

Before we go to break, if you're not sure what to get your friends or family this year, you can skip the socks and you give them a friend of the Pod subscription you. If instead they will get the good stuff. Ad free episodes of all their favorite Crooked shows, exclusive content like Dan Pfeiffer's polar coaster and bragging rights for supporting independent progressive media help us build the progressive ecosystem. It is this gift that keeps on giving and keeps them in the loop without losing their sanity. Grab one for a friend or for yourself. @crooked.com friends we are going to be rolling out more content for subscribers. We are really proud of the community we've built so far and it really helps us grow crooked media media and reach more people. So thank you, thank you for becoming a subscriber. Plus, check out our season finale of Bravo America featuring Holly Madison from the Girls Next Door. Holly talks about being the star of a reality show and being a symbol of the Playboy fantasy on television while feeling like an object when the camera is turned off. She opens up about what it has been like telling her story on her own terms and she even shares some potential political aspirations. It was one of my, my favorite interview. She's a fascinating person who has been through a lot and through a lot of cultural change in which she was honestly treated like shit and came out the other side. I really appreciated the conversation. I think you will too. So please check it out on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. I am now joined by my writers, Hallie Keefer. Oh, hello Sarah Lazarus. What's up for the second official Love it or leave it. Sandwich of justice.

[Stephanie Allen]

We should have like a sound effect.

[John Lovett]

Sandwich of justice While writing our November 1 episode, I bet Sarah Lazarus a sandwich. A sandwich of her choosing that a joke I really believed in would in fact get laughs during the live show, Lazarus said it would not. And listener, you're not going to believe this. She was right. But I am man of my word. Especially if those words are God damn it, I have to buy Sarah Lazarus a fucking sandwich. So, Lazarus, how are you feeling about your well deserved win?

[Sarah Lazarus]

I'd like to say that I take no pleasure in being right, but that'd be a lie.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, you gotta be honest. This is a space of honesty and justice and reconciliation.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Yes, I take pleasure in being right. I take pleasure in eating a sandwich.

[John Lovett]

Yes. Two great tastes. It tastes great together. Now this is our second sandwich. The first sandwich went to Halle.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yes. It was one of our YouTube videos, in case you want to go check it out, where we sort of get into the weeds about joke writing. And I want to be clear. These are always. Love it. Making a bet with us, the people he hires to write funny jokes for him. He says, I bet you this is going to work. And we say, okay. And obviously the loser has to buy a sandwich. In that case, love, it was incorrect again. And I received a sandwich of my choosing and it was. I think this is a great way. I mean, you could also listen to us when I tell. When you tell you this. But I like this better because. Because in that situation, I don't get.

[John Lovett]

A sandwich well, this is a great way. This is a great way to agree to disagree, because we have a lot of conversations about which jokes work and which don't. And I. I will defer. I'll, like, be persuaded. But once in a while, there's something kooky and strange. Sometimes it's long. Sometimes I want to fight for a long story, and we're going to listen.

[Stephanie Allen]

To it, and we'll see how long it is.

[John Lovett]

And they have work like they do work.

[Stephanie Allen]

Absolutely. They will.

[John Lovett]

But. But the one that I biffed on with you was a bit little. A pretty confusing story about a Swiss finance here trying to get a chocolate business going despite tariffs. And even as I say that, of course it didn't work, it was you.

[Stephanie Allen]

Calling them to let them know the business would not be moving forward. And also you worry yourself, which I also think made it an extra layer of confusion about what was going on.

[John Lovett]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Stephanie Allen]

But you have to swing big if you want to hit those homers.

[Sarah Lazarus]

And I mean, I am laughing now.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, that's true.

[John Lovett]

Yes. The COVID the joke. Talking about the joke has been funnier than the joke. Yes. Another great sign. So we're going to revisit the unedited footage of the joke bombing because we. Did we cut it from the show or did we leave it in? What? We cleaned it up, including the most. Okay, we're calling it shameful. Shameful. Part of the entire saga. When I tried to rig the audience reaction in my favor ahead of time. Instead, I just ended up humiliating. Just like beat Hegseb in this joke. You know what? Let's listen to the clip, and you can judge for yourself. What are we gonna say?

[Sarah Lazarus]

I was gonna say, stop the steal.

[John Lovett]

There's a joke coming up later that's really gonna require you to believe. And I'm not gonna tell you what it is. I'm just letting them know that it's coming.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

All right?

[John Lovett]

And so far, I'm worried. I'm worried, given where we're at right now, that I'm not gonna have you when we get there. And the problem is, I bet someone at the office a sandwich that it will work. Now, this, what I've just done, truthfully, what's cool is it won't this. Is this happening now? When we get to that joke later, it won't matter. It will work or it won't. It will live or it will die. But then we will remember what I said here and we will circle back to it to see if my energy about you will see Speaking of presidencies dragged down by their own violent lawlessness in Latin America, on Monday, Pete Hegseth announced that 14 people were killed, killed in strikes against several boats off the coast of Mexico, the deadliest attack in Trump's ongoing campaign against alleged drug traffickers in the Pacific and the Caribbean. Shall we toast to a job well done? Said Pete Hegseth to a four star admiral who has a recurring dream about making Hegseth cry because Hegseth keeps falling off his tricycle and spilling eggs everywhere. Now, here's the question I'm gonna. You can say yes and you can say no. And I want you to be honest. Did the person who bet me that that joke would fail, were they correct? Yes. Or no? She gets a sandwich. Let's face it. Let's face it. Fuck. Here's something that I learned from watching this on stage. I thought it was closer watching the video. That joke bombed.

[Sarah Lazarus]

And then you just keep mugging.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, you got him. You're mugging. You're mug crazy.

[John Lovett]

I.

[Stephanie Allen]

Well, so I.

[John Lovett]

So I want to make two points in my own defense, which is one, I genuinely believe that what I said in the. Before the joke, which was a few minutes before the joke, did not, not. Could not have tipped it in my favor. I do not think if it worked, it would have been because I had prepared them, because they couldn't have known what joke I was talking about until it was over, after they'd already left or not. So as much as I am being shamed for claiming to put my thumb on the scales, I don't think my. I think I was putting my thumb on something. I didn't, I didn't get anywhere close to the scale.

[Stephanie Allen]

And I think that's what makes it shameful, is that if it had worked, I would. Well, let's say we'll tip my hat to that.

[John Lovett]

Because it would have made it work.

[Stephanie Allen]

Exactly. That. It worked.

[John Lovett]

That would have been comedy.

[Stephanie Allen]

Exactly. And the fact that you put your thumb on again, wherever it went, then it just didn't. It didn't move the needle.

[John Lovett]

And yes, I did mug a fair amount after. But that was in part to try to get a laugh because the joke was dead, but to get a laugh based on, again, the preview of the joke.

[Stephanie Allen]

And I think that you did. I think that, like, it ended up being a fun moment, even if the joke itself did not work. And we did want to talk about why the joke didn't work, because I had one reason. You had another one. My reason. I heard there are several well, here's what I would say is the lead up is. So the setup is so long, you need a quick punchline. Once you start that long run, it's just. It's long on long. And it either has to be short and long short short or long short. And I think, unfortunately, the whole thing was too long. And then what was your reason?

[Sarah Lazarus]

Well, there are a couple. I thought of another one while watching it. I think Deadly Boat Strikes. Hard to set up a whimsical joke based on deadly Boat Strikes.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, a lot of that this year, I would say.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Uh, then you also start with Pete Hegseth saying something, but then you go into the mind of someone else, and I think that's a hard jump to take people on.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Is there a third reason?

[Sarah Lazarus]

I mean, I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are many more.

[John Lovett]

I. Yeah.

[Lee I. Heisenberg]

So looking.

[John Lovett]

I think that the biggest and most important reason was the topic. It was just really hard. Now, we had a joke that did work a while ago. I don't know how long ago. It was about a recurring droop Mike Pence has. And I, as a point of pride, believe it is important if you are going to make up a joke dream, you cannot.

[Stephanie Allen]

And we do quite a bit. I feel like we do the right.

[John Lovett]

Amount, I would say. And it is my genuine philosophical belief that if you're going to make up a joke, you cannot do joke tropes. You can't do Naked in school. You have to make it.

[Stephanie Allen]

See, this is maybe where we are parting ways.

[John Lovett]

I believe it has to be something that could genuinely be an unexpected dream. So I believe Mike Pence's dream involved his wife dressed up as Abraham Lincoln while he was trying to get out of a birdcage. And to me, that's funny.

[Stephanie Allen]

I like that.

[John Lovett]

But. So I. But I don't think we land on it because you were all fighting me about, like, what are the eggs? Why are there eggs?

[Stephanie Allen]

I was trying to go specifically on the tricycle. That's where I was like, oh, I.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Was fighting all of it. I just think.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yeah, you were.

[Sarah Lazarus]

The premise was so confusing that we needed something to ground it, to make people go, oh, it's a dream.

[Stephanie Allen]

Yes. And then his teeth were falling out. Like, I feel like they're falling.

[John Lovett]

So you said that. And I was like, no, everyone's teeth fall out.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Yeah. To be clear, we never want a joke to fail. We pitch dozens of alts.

[Stephanie Allen]

This is our job. This is how we have health insurance. We want the show to succeed. We want this to be wildly successful. We're not telling you this just to stop on your dreams.

[John Lovett]

And I'm. And I'm grateful. This is where this is. This is the debate. This is the beautiful. Look. We've said this before, but I genuinely think that there is a magic between the three strange aspects of our personality. The kind of like the way that Lazarus chisels a joke like Michelangelo, where, like, she starts at the hand and just generates a perfect hand.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's true.

[John Lovett]

And then the way you take a bucket of slop and throw it up against the wall.

[Stephanie Allen]

I have an improviser. What can I say?

[John Lovett]

My God, look at that. That looks like a house to me.

[Stephanie Allen]

Look at these little strands of spaghetti we can pull out of here and eat. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And there's something in that. That's like a. That's a beautiful complimentary thing. But sometimes I say, I know better.

[Sarah Lazarus]

And then I get a sandwich.

[John Lovett]

Sarah gets a sandwich. So I think it's time now.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

To.

[John Lovett]

Bring in the ceremonial sandwich of justice. Here comes Kennedy with a sandwich. It's a kind of processional of the sandwich. Wow, look at this. So I. Oh, I hated that. But, like, I think. So here's what we have now. I think what I'm looking at here is a tofu banh mi is that we're talking about.

[Stephanie Allen]

That's right.

[Sarah Lazarus]

It's the vegan banh mi from Mendocino Farms.

[Tig Notaro]

Wow.

[Stephanie Allen]

Oh, great. Now I have log been of. I believe that this happens. I think people should be eating it on camera, but I have been vetoed in that belief. I did that for free. No, I want to be clear. Nor should you.

[John Lovett]

Well, I'm grateful to the both of you for your incredible writing.

[Stephanie Allen]

Thank you for hiring us to do this. The only skill I have, which is writing jokes. So it's just a treat to be able to do that.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Thank you for that and for the sandwich.

[John Lovett]

And especially the sandwich. I genuinely love our Thursday Sprint, which we call Sprint, which is really much more of a marathon at this point, emotionally, where we go through. Where we go through all the jokes and we try to figure out how to talk about the week's news, even when the news is dark, to find a way to make it funny. And. And what I also love most about that is, like, we talk about not just the math of jokes, but the ethics of jokes and, like, the point we're trying to make. And it really is, like, one of my favorite things I get to do in a show. I love making with this incredible team that is in here sitting behind you. How fun. We get to make a live comedy show every single week for our jobs. So thank you both.

[Stephanie Allen]

You're welcome. And I will say, while every week I'm like, I don't know if I could do this ever again. I don't know how I would have gotten through this year not being able to write jokes about what is happening. I feel like that is the function of this show for so many people, both who work on it and the listener, that it is like, thank God. You know what I mean? Thank God we have jokes.

[John Lovett]

Thank God for jokes and one sandwich.

[Sarah Lazarus]

Thank God for jokes.

[John Lovett]

Two sandwiches now at this point, hell yeah, Hallie, Sarah, the whole holy team, thank you. Happy Holidays, Happy New Year and we will see you in 2026.

[Stephanie Allen]

Oh boy.

[John Lovett]

If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, Take to and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free Love it or Leave it and POD Save America episodes, subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign [e-mail] friends love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee I. Heisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre and Subba Agrawal are our writers. Jordan Kantor is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Cher.

[Gianmarco Cerese]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

Thanks to our designer, Sammy Cadearna Rhys for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers, David Tully, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt De Groat and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east. With Venmo Stash. A taco on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back with Venmo Stash. Get up to 5% cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash terms and exclusion supply max $100 cash back per month. See terms at Venmo Me Stash terms. A massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, especially these days. Eight different settings, adjustable intensity, plus it's heated and it just feels so good. Yes, a massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, but when it can come with a car, suddenly it seems quite practical. The Volkswagen Tiguan, packed with premium features like available massaging front seats. That only feels extravagant.