LSE IQ Podcast: “Do we need to drive?”

Date: February 4, 2025
Host: Mike Wilkerson
Guests:

• Philipp Rode (Director, LSE Cities)
• Rachel Aldred (Professor of Transport, University of Westminster)
• Indira Ray (LSE Student, Learner Driver)
• Chris Tennant (LSE Department of Psychological and Behavioural Science)

Overview

This episode examines whether driving is truly necessary in the UK today, especially in light of environmental concerns, urban planning, and evolving transportation alternatives. Host Mike Wilkerson, drawing from personal experience relocating from London to a rural area, explores how car dependence shapes our lives, what alternatives exist, and how policy, technology, and cultural attitudes factor into the question: “Do we need to drive?”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Extent of Car Reliance in the UK

• UK residents traveled over 250 billion miles by car last year; in every region except London, more than 70% commute by car (00:14).
• Cars account for 90% of transport emissions in the UK (00:14).

2. The Promise and Reality of the Car

• Philipp Rode contextualizes the car as a historical tool to overcome isolation, especially in rural settings:
  • “The car was meant to be a machine to allow us to overcome physical proximity… They were meant to be used in rural settings.” (02:03)
• In cities, the space requirements for cars threaten urban vibrancy. The promise of freedom through driving is, Rode argues, “an illusion” (06:05).

3. Urban Versus Rural Experiences of Freedom

• For urban youth, public transport like TfL and cycling infrastructure offer greater mobility and freedom than cars, according to Rode:
  • “Freedom is provided by Transport for London... Here we have a much earlier experience of freedom provided by public transport.” (03:31)
  • Maintenance, costs, and logistical burdens of car ownership offset the supposed freedom of driving (05:00).

4. Shifts in Urban Mobility: London as a Case Study

• Rachel Aldred describes how strategic policy shifts in London dramatically reduced car commuting and promoted cycling:
  • “2001, there were 137,000 people coming in by car and 13,000 by bike… By 2011, it’s 67,000 by car and 33,000 by bike.” (06:54)
• TFL planners observed that as population grew, investments in cycling and public transport infrastructure became crucial (07:27).

5. The Challenge of Space Allocation—and the Backlash

• Policy efforts like Mini Holland and low-traffic neighborhoods have repurposed road space but not without opposition:
  • Drivers complain about restricting access to side roads and increased congestion (10:12).
• Rode offers a striking stat: A bus lane can move 40,000 people an hour, compared to just 4,000 for three car lanes (10:56).
  • “About 20% [of people] were driving in the city using about 80% of the public space.” (11:56)
  • Emphasizes the need to rethink who public space is for and how it should be shared (14:11).

6. Generational and Cultural Shifts: The Young Driver’s Perspective

• Indira Ray, LSE student, shares her evolving relationship with driving:
  • Raised in cities, she saw driving as unnecessary and even fear-inducing (16:47).
  • Ultimately decided to learn for job flexibility: “I would be heartbroken…if I had this kind of dream job… and I couldn’t apply because I didn’t know how to drive.” (17:27)
• Among her peers in London, driving is logistically challenging and often viewed as unnecessary, if not slightly peculiar (18:30).
  • In rural areas, however, the link between driving and freedom remains strong (19:14).

7. The Persistent Urban-Rural Divide

• Public transport and cycle infrastructure are far better in cities than rural areas:
  • “Trips are two or three miles. They should be easy to cycle, but they’re not because the infrastructure is so hostile.” (19:57, Aldred)

8. Can Technology Solve the Problem? The Promise and Limits of Driverless Cars

• Chris Tennant critiques the focus on tech as simply automating car use, not reducing dependence:
  • “The focus is clearly at the moment on the idea that let’s just make the car better.” (22:00)
  • Driverless cars are unlikely to be widespread soon: “From my point of view [widespread adoption] is a long way off… It’s too expensive… They need an operational backup whenever issues arise.” (23:00)
  • Without a societal shift to prioritize shared or public transport, driverless cars may increase congestion: “We’ll just have more of them…with no one in them.” (24:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Urban Mobility:
  • “Mobility and accessibility is provided in an alternative and possibly even better way [than driving]. The moment of freedom which you may experience driving very quickly deteriorates.” – Philipp Rode (05:00)
• Space Efficiency:
  • “If you have a two-lane, one-direction bus rapid transit lane… it’s 40,000 people [per hour, per direction]. With less space you move many, many more… well over 10 times [than cars].” – Philipp Rode (10:56)
• Generational Shift:
  • “No, because I think you step outside and you have total autonomy and total freedom and you can go anywhere you want. Countryside, Yes… But in a city, you don’t need a car for freedom.” – Indira Ray (19:14)
• Tech Optimism Caution:
  • “If we don’t choose to [prioritize shared transport], these cars will be… coasting around with no one in them.” – Chris Tennant (24:41)
• On Driving's Future:
  • “To live, work and enjoy the current world? I would say most people aged sort of 25 probably still need to think about learning to drive. Will you need to in 20 years’ time? Possibly not.” – Chris Tennant (26:14)
  • “This country is predominantly not cities, it’s countrysides… and we still need to drive.” – Indira Ray (26:47)

Timestamps by Topic

• [00:14] – Introduction, UK car use and emissions statistics
• [01:49] – Philipp Rode: historical perspective on cars’ purpose
• [03:14] – Youth freedom: driving vs. public transport in London
• [06:20] – Rachel Aldred: policy shifts and transport choices in London
• [07:27] – Impact of growing population on urban transit modes
• [10:12] – Community feedback and backlash over road repurposing
• [10:56] – The (in)efficiency of cars vs. buses and public space allocation
• [16:37] – Indira Ray’s perspective: urban and rural pressures to drive
• [19:14] – Is car freedom still a selling point for today’s youth?
• [19:57] – Accessibility and cycling infrastructure in smaller towns
• [22:00] – Chris Tennant: automation, driverless cars, and misplaced priorities
• [26:06] – Final thoughts: Do we need to drive?
  • Featuring closing reflections from all major guests

Conclusions

• Driving is less vital in UK cities, particularly London, as public transport and cycling infrastructure have improved and policy has shifted.
• Space, rather than speed or convenience, is the true currency of urban transport. Buses, bikes, and pedestrians make far more efficient use of limited city space.
• In rural and suburban areas, car dependence remains strong, due to limited alternatives and cultural norms.
• Technological solutions like driverless cars won’t reduce car dependency unless there is a parallel cultural and infrastructural investment in shared and public transit options.
• The “freedom” associated with driving is being redefined—from car ownership to multimodal mobility, especially in younger generations and urban areas.
• Societal priorities and policy decisions will determine whether driving’s role continues to shrink or persists deeper into the 21st century.

For more information on the research discussed, visit the show notes. This episode was produced by Mike Wilkerson with script support from Sophie Mallet.