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- [00:04]
A
Good evening, ladies, gentlemen, students, colleagues and members of the public. My name is George Gaskell. I'm pro director here. And it is a privilege and a great pleasure to welcome the President of Austria, Dr. Heinz Fischer, to the school to present the APCO Worldwide Perspectives. Sorry, APCO Worldwide comma Perspectives on Europe lecture in partnership with the Jean Monet program. You probably all know this, but I'll bring it to the attention of those of you who have maybe forgotten the dates. Dr. Fisher was elected president in 2004 and was elected for a second term of office in 2010. Prior to that, he was in the Social Democratic Party. He was a Member of Parliament, the National Council, and he also pursued an academic career as professor of Political science in Innsbruck University. His lecture this evening is, as you can see. And Dr. Fisher is going to speak for about 20, 25 minutes. And then we'll have 30 minutes for questions. So it's a great pleasure to welcome you here. Mr. President, the floor is yours.
- [01:39]
B
Professor Gaskill. Ladies and gentlemen, dear colleagues. I'm really happy to be here. And I'm honored to be invited to the famous LSE tonight. And to address you, of course. I'm very much aware of the special aura of this place and this university. It has provided a platform for the articulation of much of the political thought which over the last century has had its impact on our societies and nations, and thus had relevance far beyond the borders of the United Kingdom. Accordingly, it has also attracted great minds from many countries from all over the world. Two of them, Sir Karl Popper and Friedrich Hayek, had been fellow Austrians in their earlier lives. My capacity as Austrian Minister for Science and research in the 80s, I had the opportunity to become closer, or even close acquainted with Sir Karl Popper. And I remember that on the occasion of his 90th birthday in summer 1992, because he was born in 1902, I had the opportunity to come to London for this 90th birthday. And to honor him with a high decoration from the country where he was born. As different Sir Kalpopp and Friedrich von Hayck might have been. Both of them had reminded us, each in his way, of course, of the urgent need of keeping societies open and flexible so as to permit continuous, peaceful and democratic change and adjustment. I shall not try to argue on their level of abstraction and generalization. What I intend to do in this presentation of about 25 minutes. And to make sure that it is in these limits I have my manuscript is to reflect on my lifelong involvement in Austrian politics. In particular about the events around the year 1989, their history and their impact on Austria and on Europe. 1989 was indeed an amazing and exceptional year for Europe, for Austria, and also for me personally, given my long standing involvement with and in our neighboring countries. Within a few months, more than four decades of division of Europe became history. The Iron Curtain fell and the Cold War between East and west came to an end. The communist domination in Europe was finished and all the European countries under Soviet rule embarked on the road to freedom, democracy and market economy, which was not so easy in the first period. Period. And not only the political and economic structure of Europe, even its geography was touched by the events. Just think of the new states which emerged from the disintegration of Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia. And think, on the other hand, of German reunification. For Austria, the well built Revolution of 89 opened a new chapter in our history. This is not overdone since the signing of the state treaty in 1955. It was signed by Vyacheslav Molotov from Soviet Union, John Foster Dulles from the United States, Antoine Pinet from France and Harold Macmillan from Great Britain. Austria's regaining of full independence and sovereignty as the consequence of the State Treaty, the country has experienced a long period of political stability, economic growth and Social Security. But situated as we were, and still are, let me Situated as we were on the Iron Curtain, with three of our present neighbors cut off by barbed wire, mined corridors and watchtowers, we had to live with the consequences of this situation. One speaks so easily of Cold War. But I can assure you that life at this borderline between east and west was not easy for the people. And many relationships, economic and human, were interrupted in the most cruel way. Politically, however, Austria nevertheless had a useful and important function to fulfill. On the basis of our status as neutral country, Austria could provide a platform for the exchange of information and for contacts which were desperately needed in these days. I remind you of the many summit meetings, conferences and disarmament talks which took place in our country. The famous summit meeting between Kennedy and Khrushchev 1961 in Vienna was only one of them. The Helsinki act of 1975, you know. This result of a long period of negotiations between east and west gave us a legal base for a stronger and more concrete political involvement in the promotion and supervision of human rights, personal and religious freedom, etc. So if you take all these elements together, you will understand that for Austria, 89 was a year of fundamental and far reaching change. I will go into the consequences immediately, but before doing so permit me a few additional, even personal remarks. As I said before, throughout my political life I have been involved with Central and Eastern Europe. I had good personal friends on the other side of the Iron Curtain. Politicians like Alexander Dubek, his Foreign Minister in the time of the Prague Spring, Jerzy Hayek or Julia Juan, the later Prime Minister of Hungary, or Vlado de Diya in Yugoslavia, and in addition, dissidents, writers and many emigrants coming in particular from Hungary and Czechoslovakia to Vienna. I will never forget the moving and highly symbolic moment when the Austrian Foreign Minister Alois Mok, and the Hungarian Foreign Minister of these days, Kyula Horn, who is still alive but his health is very, very bad, cut the barbed wire fence between our two countries with a metal scissor near Chopran in June 89. And particularly deep was the impression when the Berlin Wall was overrun by an enthusiastic crowd from East Berlin in November 89. I still hear in my head the deep voice of Willy Brandt when he said in Berlin during a televised rally, yetzt vexed to summon Gerhard now grows together what belongs together. And on the very day when the Iron Curtain between Austria and Hungary was cut, in my then capacity as Chief Whip of the Labour Party in the Austrian Parliament, I tabled together with my counterpart from the Conservative Party on common ground, a parliamentary resolution urging the Austrian government to start negotiations with Brussels on the Austrian membership in the European Union. It was accepted with a great maturity and that again opened a new chapter in our history. And you see very clear close relation between falling down of the Iron Curtain and opening a door to Europe. In spite of our exposed geographic position, dear colleagues and audience, and our status as a neutral country, there never was any doubt that Austria would be firmly part of the Western world of the Western philosophy of a democratic, pluralistic system. The desire to be firmly anchored in this Western part of the world and to play an active role in the growing network of European institutions brought Austria at a very early stage into the Council of Europe and as a partner of Great Britain, into the European Free Trade Association. But efta, the European Free Trade association, was a good institution, but it was much less than the European Community. Due to the political circumstances of the Cold War, membership in the European Community was not possible for any of the European neutral countries. It needed finally President Gorbachev to abandon the Soviet suspicion that the EC would only be an economic forefront for NATO. This window of opportunity could not be missed. Austria, together with Sweden, Finland and Norway, applied for membership in July 89. And Austria, Sweden and Finland joined the European Union together on 1-1-95. I'm of course aware that in Great Britain, in public opinion as well as in Parliament, membership in the European Union does not have the same importance and the same value as it does in many countries of the continent. In my opinion, there are maybe, inter alia, two important factors at play here which cannot be ignored. Geography and history. For Austria, a landlocked country, literally situated in the midst of the continent, having common borders with eight other states and having a long history of being part of supranational structures, a country that was directly touched by all the conflicts which throughout the centuries shook the continent, membership in the European Union meant peace, stability, security and influence in decision making through shared sovereignty. For Great Britain, a country whose main zone of interest was not only on land, but mainly in the oceans, this might look differently. Nevertheless, not only in view of the European history, but also for practical reasons like trade, relationship and above all, in few of the worldwide issues of today, I'm convinced that in the long run our development will lead us to an even closer integration and in Europe, even at the price of transferring more sovereignty to common institutions. I have mentioned already that the historic change of 89 changed also some parameters or parameters of Austria's foreign policy. Arguments against joining the European Union, in particular the one related to neutrality, became less important. Arguments in favor of joining, especially political and economic ones, became more important. Equally important was and still is the growing acknowledgement that more and more problems are global in nature and surpass the strength and capacity of individual middle sized countries. And that today it is more important to be there where decisions are taken than ever in history. We have joined the European union after a referendum. 66 yes, 66% yes and 34% no as a neutral country. But this does not preclude us from from actively participating in the common foreign and security policy of the European Union aimed at peace and peaceful solutions. At the moment, for instance, some 1,500 Austrian soldiers are engaged in peacekeeping activities of the United nations outside Austria. And if I think that Germany in all aspects is 10 times Austria, as far as population is concerned, as far as budget is concerned, it's interesting that as far as soldiers outside the country in peace activities are engaged, Germany is only five times Austria. There is a significant difference. Ladies and gentlemen, I said I want to look around 89, its origins and its consequences. I tell you that about 30 years ago I read with great interest the book of a Russian dissident. His name is Andrei Amalric. This book was published as A underground literature in 1970 in Russia and a few years later it was smuggled out. Sorry. It was smuggled out the country and published in Switzerland under the title can the Soviet Union survive 84. The answer of Amalric was no. And he gave reasons for this negative answer. As you know, the Soviet Union survived 84 but it did not survive 91 when it finally collapsed seven years after the imaginary date set by Amalric. Looking at the situation in the 80s from the vantage point of Vienna, one thing became indeed more and more apparent. Namely that the relationship between Moscow and the satellite countries less and less was an organic one. That there was, in spite of the Warsaw Treaty and the comic con, very little regional cooperation and partnership, and that the communist domination had not profoundly changed the character and the national spirit of the individual so called brother countries. The Soviet domination was based on military power, but it had lost more and more its its economic basis and the common communist ideology became weaker and weaker or even disappeared. I asked Zdenek Blinash one day, can you tell me how many Marxists are in the Politburo of Communist Party of Czechoslovakia? His answer was not a single one. They are only interested on power, on career, on money, on other privileges. But this is the present leadership in this country. This was in the 80s and the consequence was following. Ladies and gentlemen, it was therefore not a real surprise that the states of Eastern Europe, after shedding the yoke of communism, turned back, in my opinion, to a remarkable degree to their historical roots and to where they had been before. These countries had shaped and contributed to European history and European culture for centuries. It is not surprising that now they wanted to be part of Europe of peace and prosperity as quick as possible. For security reasons, they also opted for closer relations with the United States and membership in NATO. The European Union accepted and acknowledged the responsibility that the former division of the continent had to be overcome and the window of opportunity had to be used through granting the the so called enlargement perspective to the 10 countries primarily concerned from Central and Eastern Europe. This process of opening the European Union to the greatest enlargement in its history began already shortly after 1990. From 1990 to 2007, a very dense net was woven not only in the accession negotiations, but also through the multitude of bilateral or multilateral initiatives and activities which accompanied the negotiations. Austria and the Austrian people are historically, culturally, politically and economically closely connected to our neighboring states in Central and Eastern Europe. This is a relationship which grew in the era of the Austro Hungarian monarchy as a result of a long Shared history. During the 40 years of communist rule, this relationship was interrupted completely. Was interrupted, but never completely abolished. With the downfall of the communist system in 89 and the enlargement of the European Union, Austria moved from the periphery of the democratic west into the very center of the united Europe. Without any doubt, Austria was one of the biggest beneficiaries of of the enlargement of the European Union in a material, but also in an immaterial sense. We have now eight neighbor countries who profess the same values and principles. Six of them share with us the rights and duties of membership in the European Union. And therefore, new possibilities and perspectives of political cooperation have arisen. But also the Austrian economy realized and utilized very quickly the chances which the transformation offered. Today. Slovenia, for instance, a country with about 2 million inhabitants, imports more Austrian products than Russia or China. Our exports to Hungary are just a little below our exports to France or do the United States and Austria in 2010 was the largest foreign investor in Croatia, in Serbia and even in Turkey. In 2011, the figures will be a little bit different. In addition, Vienna has become a center for many foreign companies and enterprises which were expanding their relationship with Central and Eastern Europe. And also tourism is flourishing. It is true that at this very moment of financial crisis, economic engagement in our eastern neighborhood includes also financial risks. Hence, the Austrian authorities have quite recently announced a package of measures to strengthen the resilience of the subsidiaries of Austrian banks in the region. Further, we believe that in the medium term, economic convergence will continue in these countries and they will be growing faster than the euro area average. One question, however, may remain, namely, is the Europe of 27 the end of the enlargement process or is this an ongoing development? The European Union has always avoided to give itself a geographic definition and to answer the question regarding the so called finality or ENT, et cetera. It is thus not surprising and speaks also for the attraction of the European Union that the interest in joining it, the interest in becoming part of a Europe of security and prosperity, even in spite of the present difficulties and troubles, continues. Croatia already has the door wide open. Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and others, who also have a European heritage and a European commitment, want to follow. Turkey is a special case and many aspects have to be taken into consideration in connection with the Turkish EU membership. And in addition, speaking frankly, it has become a question of internal policy, of party policy in several European countries. And that makes the theory not easier. That means that the enlargement process in principle continues, but we have not only to take care of the capacity of applicants to fulfill the criteria for membership, but also of the capacity of the European Union to accept new member countries. At the same time, we also have to look at the question how the Union interacts with neighbors who also have a European orientation, but for whom, for different reasons, membership at the moment is not an option. Dear colleagues, if I sum up very briefly, I have to say that Austria has a new and a much better position in Europe. Since the fall of the iron curtain in 89 and since our membership in the European Union in 95, it is our policy to be a reliable political and economic partner for all European countries. Austria has a special expertise for developments on the Balkan and close relations to that region. And Austria is a strong supporter for the new European initiative for the Danube region. The European Union, and in particular the Eurozone, are facing, like other advanced economies, a period of economic and financial instability. The Austrian Vice Chancellor and Foreign Minister, Michael Binderlecke, to my knowledge, has addressed this issue in greater detail at the LSE only some weeks ago. The financial crisis has led to a severe deterioration of public finances across the euro area countries. But it is important to consider that the consolidated fiscal position of the euro area remains overall rather more favorable than that of the United States or Japan. I would also like to mention that the Austrian fiscal position is stronger than the euro area average. And over the last months, European policymakers have shown that they are able and willing, even if it is under severe pressure from the markets, to take unprecedented steps to safeguard the stability of the euro and to defend the prosperity that we have built since 45. By the end of this October, the heads of state and government of the euro area agreed on a comprehensive set of measures to restore confidence and address the current tensions in financial markets. Now, the decisions have to be implemented promptly and further deliberations are necessary. But the idea of European integration of the European Union and the idea of a common currency between all those European member countries who fulfill the conditions for a common currency and want to join will remain. And this, in my opinion, is still the best answer to the challenges for Europe in a time when the world population reached 7 billion human beings and only 8% of them are Europeans, 0.9% are British, and only a little bit more than 0.1% are Austrians. Thank you for your attention.
- [30:14]
A
Thank you very much, Mr. President. Intriguing to be reminded of those times in the late 80s and the 90s, I regret to say, ladies and gentlemen, I should have announced that those of you who are Twitter fans, the hashtag for this lecture is LSE Austria in one word.
- [30:36]
B
Now.
- [30:37]
A
Now we have about 30 minutes for questions and I suggest we take three at a time. And since the lecture theatre is divided into four, do we have a microphone upstairs or are these the silent. Oh, we do.
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B
Splendid.
- [30:50]
A
So we'll take three questions here. Three, three. And then up there. So this side of the room, please. Questions. Gentlemen, please wait until a microphone appears.
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C
Hello, my name is Max Rubal. I'm AN LLC alumni. Mr. President, you mentioned the possibility for members to join the European Union as one of the great leverages to exercise or to push towards reform in these countries. With the crisis in the Eurozone continuing and partly being unresolved, it also seems that this leverage towards new possible member countries is diminishing. Do you share this view? And if so, what do you think can be done? That the prospective membership is still a tool, a leverage for reform. Thank you.
- [31:52]
A
Next question. Over here.
- [31:54]
C
Hello, Mr. President, my name is Benjamin Glatz. Just a quick question. You mentioned earlier that you are thinking that the EU will further integrate in the long run. How do you think? Nationalism is clearly one of the main enemies of further EU integration can be overcome in countries such as Hungary, but also in the core of Europe as it's spreading more. Thank you.
- [32:23]
B
Well, the first question. The European Union was founded, as you know, as a great idea, supported at the beginning by six countries. And for quite some time it stayed with six countries. Then there was enlargement to nine, then to 12, then with Austria, Sweden and Finland to 15. And then came the big jump of 12 others divided first 10, then two. And this is the present situation. And I think you are right that the attraction of the European Union as an area not only of peace, what it still is, and so to say, security, what it still is, but also of prosperity and economic growth, et cetera, this attraction is somehow reduced, if I look at it realistically. But still the other reasons security make a clear difference to the past, to start a new era, to be on the same table like. Like Germany and France and Sweden and Holland. And to participate in the European decision making is attractive enough that Croatia will join, Serbia wants to join, Montenegro fights for the possibility to start negotiations. The same is the case with Macedonia. Bosnia is the most complex, complicated country and has the most complicated structures on the Balkans. And this situation in Bosnia is very alarming. To speak frankly. Albania very much wants to become a membership, a member of the European Union. They have this heavy, heavy influence between Berish and the leader of the Socialist Party and former mayor of Tirana. And then you have the problem of Turkey. Maybe we can talk especially on Turkey. And then you have other countries in the east who know that membership is not possible in the foreseeable time of eight or 10 years. But they also look at Ukraine, do not want to have only Russia on the one side. They want to have links and securities through their connections with the European Union. So I believe the enlargement process will continue. But if the European Union will not surpass, let's say, number of 30 member countries, it's the decision of the other countries whether they say under present circumstances, it is not necessary for us. Norway, for instance, will be such a country. They had twice a referendum. Both times it was negative. So they have accepted that the people have decided, decided twice against membership. Switzerland is a little bit different. In Switzerland, I would think roughly 30% of the population. If there is somebody from Switzerland here, please correct me, would be quite happy about the membership. But 2 3rd think they have had already the opportunity to organize their relations to the European Union on the basis of a lot of bilateral treaties and a lot of networks. So this is overlook on the situation in Europe. Second question, how to fight nationalism is a subject where in particular in Austria we deal with this problem very intensively. Austria in the first elections after the Second World War, the Social Democrats and the Christian Democrats or Labor and conservatives, had 95% of the votes. There was only a small Communist Party getting 4% of the votes. And now, after the archives in Moscow are opened, we have evidence that one of the reasons why the Russians, as the occupation power in Austria, allowed free democratic elections in whole Austria between the Hungarian and the Swiss border at such an early date as November 25, 1945. One of the reasons for that was that the leading Austrian Communists, many of them being in immigration in Moscow, in the Hotel Lux and in other places, indicated and promised that that Communist Party in Austria will get about 30%. And that would have been a result not far away from the results in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. The Communist Party did not have more than 50% of the votes, but they had 30, 35%. And they seized power with the help of the Red army. In. In Austria they got 4%. And this was a great disappointment. It was a miscalculation and long time, long period. The two big parties were dominating the political scene and the parliament. They had a coalition, sometimes no coalition. In the time of Krasky, there was no coalition before him four years also. But so called Freedom Party, which in my opinion is a party where the national aspect plays a great role is growing and growing and growing. And at the moment we have in practice in Austria three parties, all of them, according to polls, between 25 and 30%. And then we have a Green Party, and then we have a fifth party. I think the Communist Party is around 0.3 or 0.4. And what contributes to that is discussed very. So to say controversial. I would invite you to consider first whether the idea of European Union and of. Transceeding national borders creates also a counteraction to be proud on the own nation and to look down on other nations. This is one element, so to say a reaction on European integration. A second element is that nationalism, at least on the continent, always in history, particularly the 19th and early 20th century, played a certain role, must not be underestimated, but it was somehow acceptable. It was part of the game. Liberals, nationalists, leftists, rightists, etc. Then came Hitler and the Nazi time and the terrible and ridiculous overdoing of nationalism. We are the Germans. The Germans are everything and the others are nothing. This was their ideology and it collapsed and it was a terrible disaster. So that in the years after 45, like in a pendulum, the pendulum from nationalism was swinging to the elimination and. Rejection of nationalism. And now it's going in the other side to a certain degree. Look at Hungary, for instance, look at Romania, for instance. They have such problems. And I don't want to speak too long, but it is a complex and complicated problem. And there are some other aspects. And if you add all of this, you come to the situation in Germany, in Austria, in Italy, in Hungary. We have it under control. I don't think that democracy is in danger in a way, as it was in the 30s of the 20th century, but it is a growing problem. It is a growing aspect. So you had only two questions, but I took the time for three answers.
- [42:30]
A
Okay, let's turn to the Central European bloc. A couple of questions there. The lady at the end of the row first, please.
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D
Hello, I'm Evana Kutoswa, I'm a student here. You spoke about the rebuilding of the relationships with Central and Eastern European countries. And I was wondering, if you now look back at your expectations in 1990, what would have been the biggest disappointment you had over the 20 years in rebuilding the relationships.
- [43:07]
A
And the. Thank you very much.
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B
Hello, my name is Oliver Spindler.
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C
Mr. President. You spoke about the shared rights and duties of members of the eu. In your view, how is that compatible with Austria's state of neutrality, with the shared rights and duties?
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A
And the third question. Thank you.
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C
Hello, Mr. President. In 1989, many Eastern Europe countries changed from communism into capitalism. But if the same thing happened in China, do you think it would be a good thing or a bad thing? Thank you.
- [43:58]
B
Maybe. The year 1989 was for me, as I mentioned, already expressing a fascinating development. And I worked with friends from Sweden, from Germany, etc. Many others, Finland, France, Great Britain.
- [44:28]
C
In.
- [44:30]
B
Contributing that democracy and pluralism can develop. We organized or we founded a special organization on an international level with a secretariat to support individual democracies. And if I look back altogether, I'm happy. And I say that not all, but many hopes and expectations have been fulfilled. Of course, at the moment I'm critical a little bit vis a vis Hungary, I cannot overlook. And I said it to the president of Hungary, who was in Vienna recently. I said, what do you think what impression it makes if you have a Constitutional Court and the Constitutional Court is a central institution to keep democracy, and you go and cut off rights of the Constitutional Court and you increase the number of the judges by five additional judges, hand picked from the government, all with the same political background. Do you think that makes confidence? And the other supreme courts in Hungary, you reduce the age for pension. All over Europe we're thinking whether we can increase the age where somebody goes into pension. In the Supreme Court they reduced the age for pensions by. By five years. That means that one third of the supreme judges had immediately to go to pension, and one third of the judges immediately was replaced by the government. So I have such close relations to Hungary and I have a Hungarian grandmother, that I really feel pity that this is possible and I hope it will be changed and corrected. And the second aspect is, as you asked already before, it would not be bad if we can reduce and diminish overdoing nationalism, because nationalism always means not only to promote their own nation, it is automatically connected with downgrading and looking down and neglecting other nations. And Our World in 2011 and the coming years can only work peacefully if we accept the dogma, the principle that all human being and all nations are equal in, so to say, their human and fundamental rights. And there is no superior and no inferior nation. People are not the same, have not the same amount of cleverness and of strong. And one can run hundred meters in 13 seconds and another one in 12 seconds. But in principle, human beings are of the same value and of the same prince of the same quality.
- [48:13]
A
Share rights and duties.
- [48:15]
B
Yeah, well, I have no problem with that. Even I gave you an example. We say we keep to our neutrality, which was amended in the constitution, to make it functioning in the system of the European Union and to participate in the foreign and security policy. We say we do not participate in war, we say we don't want to have foreign soldiers in Austria, we say we do not want to join a military block. But we say we share all duties coming from the membership in the European Union, and we therefore send our soldiers to places where they can fulfill their duties in Kosovo, in Bosnia, on the border, to Syria, even in Africa and in other places. The day before yesterday, eight or nine Austrian soldiers were wounded, one or two seriously. One is in permanent artificial coma, and they wanted to go between a fight of Kosovarin and Serbians in the North Kosovo. We accept our duties, we fulfill our duties. And we don't think that Ireland or Finland or Austria are members of the European Union, just consuming the rights and not fulfilling their duties. And the third thing was a tricky question. Yes, I think you cannot answer such a question seriously, because I respect that on the world not all countries and not all regions have the same political, religious, ideological system. China is different from the United States, United States is different from Algeria, and Algeria is different from Austria. Nevertheless, we have to live together peacefully. And I know very well that if in China things would happen, namely turbulences, etc. That could be a real great, great problem. On the other hand, I of course support the idea of human rights and of human values. And when IYY had an exhibition in Austria, I as President went to this exhibition and photographs were made to show I'm in favor of pluralistic pluralism in art and opinion. And when the president of China, Hu Jinta, was in Austria end of October, just less than six weeks ago, one of the subjects I asked him about the Strafprotzes, the criminal code, penal code with death penalties, etc. You have to raise some questions. They have to see that you look critical at their structures. But I have no reason to be provocative or hostile or something. This is how I handle this problem. Next three.
- [52:20]
A
Okay, Western Europe, we have a chat over here.
- [52:23]
B
Thank you.
- [52:26]
C
Hello, my name is Mario Skodes and I'm a graduate student here. My question is related to the solidarity of the European member states. What should the EU do to remain united when individual countries very often face extreme political and economic pressure from other states, non member states? Although my question is very broad, I could refer to recent and very disappointing event when the Austrian border officials arrested a Russian citizen responsible for war crimes in my country in Lithuania in 1991. But despite a European arrest warrant, and all that so often declared European solidarity values was very quickly released and allowed to return to Russia. Thank you.
- [53:18]
A
Second question. The lady at the back in grey.
- [53:24]
D
Hello, my name is Johanna Krusch. Mr. President, I wanted to ask you, yesterday you were welcoming the Palestinian leader in Austria, and I wanted to ask you, how much influence do you think does Austria have in implementing such a step?
- [53:41]
B
Such a step? Which steps?
- [53:46]
D
I read that you were welcoming him like every other president. I mean, such a step as recognizing him as a leader, as a president.
- [53:57]
A
And Lady Forres back. Thank you.
- [54:06]
D
Hello, my name is Theodora Corkas, also I graduate student here. You were just mentioning the importance of the European Union, of European Union membership for Austria and its benefits for Austria. And furthermore, also the benefits that the 2004 enlargement had for Austria. And I really agree to that. But how then, how come then does that Eurostat, for example, tells us that support of the Austrian citizens for the European Union is so low. So I wanted to know, first of all, how do you explain that? And second of all, how do you think Austrian politics and politicians, what can they do in order to promote the European Union more among their citizens, especially in these times of crisis?
- [54:59]
A
Thank you very much.
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B
Basis for this question.
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A
The first one.
- [55:14]
B
It's all right.
- [55:19]
A
The time is in your hands.
- [55:20]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I feel well here. It's all right. Well, the first question put from a colleague from Lithuania. I do not know whether all of you know the background of this very interesting case, namely Russian official was arrested at the Austrian airport because his name was in the list of people which were searched for criminals for war criminals crimes. War crimes. And they asked Lithuania for some additional communication. This was delayed. On the other hand, the arrested person asked for the support of his embassy. He got it. And they were proving that he was traveling in Europe in and out and was five times in of front Finland and three times in Great Britain. And the exact names did not coincide exactly. And the basis, the legal basis for arresting him was an agreement which is 10 years or 12 years old. And the crimes he was accused of were done in Lithuania in 1990. And so he was freed, set free and continued his journey to Russia. This is so short story in Lithuania there was great excitement on that. Great criticism with sometimes very hard words against Austria. I could understand this criticism because I, in my capacity that I have described before as a member of the we had discussion this Solidarity democratie on Solidarity as a European association for democracy and solidarity. I was in Lithuania in February 91. It was a time when I could not go directly to Lithuania. I had to go to Moscow and to leave Moscow on the internal airport, because they regarded Lithuania Vilnius still as part of the Soviet Union. And I arrived in Vilnius on the international airport because they regarded the themselves already as independent. And I had meetings with the leading people of Lithuania these days. And I saw the parliament and I saw the tanks and I saw the sands, and I saw all the tensions, etc. And therefore I asked our Minister of Justice to meet with the Lithuanian Minister of Justice to discuss the issue. And they produced a protocol showing understanding for the vice versa position. The Austrian side explained why we or our authorities acted as they did. And the Lithuanian side explained why they were so sensitive and so vulnerable on this question. And then I wrote a letter to the President of Lithuania, a lady, and once again explained the situation and said we will meet next year. This is arranged already, this meeting, but if she wants some more explanation, she should inform me. I did not get such a letter of asking for more explanation. So I think this was a very tricky and sensitive issue. But you must not see it only from one side, from the Lithuanian side. And you in particular must not, so to say, generalize in such a way that the country like Austria, is not practicing solidarity with other countries in the European Union or outside the European Union. We try to do a lot of solidarity to other countries and to be a fair and loyal member of the European Union. The second question that President Abbas was in Austria yesterday and today. I had a meeting with him today in the morning at 10 o'. Clock. And this is part of our regular contacts. It is not his first visit in Austria. I didn't only once visit Palestina. I was in Israel more than 10 times. I worked in the kibbutz in Israel. You all were not born in these days, it was in 63. And I know Israel very well and I have a lot of understanding for Israel. But I believe if you are a real good friend of Israel, and if you want really well to Israel, you must help to overcome the difference with the Palestinians. And you must try to persuade Israel and to persuade the other side, of course as well, to make a lasting peace on the base of two independent countries which recognize each other, which live in peace together, together and have negotiated borders and solutions. For that reason, I'm ready to meet Abbas anytime. I met him this year in June in Italy, I met him in September in New York, and I met him in November in Vienna. And I will meet him again. This is our policy and we Receive him like other countries, do it with a protocol, with his flag and with all honors a representative of a subject of international law deserves. Okay, Yeah. And there was a third question.
- [62:54]
A
Your compatriots are not too keen on the European Union.
- [63:01]
B
It is true. It is true. The door to membership in the European Union opened. We were careful and made a referendum. Like Sweden, like Norway and like Finland, the Norway. The referendum in Norway had a negative result. The referendum in Sweden was less than 55% yes and more than 45% no. The Finnish referendum was a little bit better. The Austrian referendum was, as far as the figures are concerned, the best. I mentioned it already 66 against 34. But this was to a certain extent the result that the two big parties, Social Democrats and Conservatives, who were in a coalition in the middle of the 90s, as they are now, both advocated in favor. And even the Green Party in Austria was at the referendum in favor. Not so ardent, but they were. The Freedom Party, the National Party was against. And maybe that the result was too positive in comparison with the real mood of the people, because they had some anxious. They were somehow anxious. They were afraid to lose some possibilities. They were afraid that the influence of Germany and other bigger European countries will be dominating. And other things added that fears. And so the approval of the Austrian people to the membership in the European Union or to the activities of the European Union is indeed declining. And I tell you in if we would make a referendum today, we would eventually have a very small minority in favor of Brussels, or even a minority. And if we would have had a referendum to the Lisiphon Treaty, we would have more than 60% against it. Because the biggest newspaper made an ardent campaign against it. The Freedom Party was against it, other boulevard newspapers were writing against it, and the mood was not good. And this is one of the questions which is put in every meeting in Austria. I invite students to the Hofburg palace to my office. Many ask about the European Union, many indicate some reservations. If I asked retired people, it's even stronger. They are afraid that their pension could be insecure and the living standard can be reduced, that they have material, material problems. They have the feeling that migration is a consequence of the European Union and of the border regimes, of open borders. The European Union is not popular in Central Europe at the moment, and we have to see it and we have to fight against it, because I'm convinced it is a better future than isolation, nationalism, etc. Etc. But this is a very. This is a question which hits a very sensitive point in our Political feelings. Are you waiting for the next question or no?
- [67:31]
A
Well, you probably have a dinner, for instance.
- [67:37]
B
Yes.
- [67:39]
A
So I think, as we are running about 12 minutes over, I am going to ignore the Southern European bloc. Forgive me. And I think I should just say, thank you so much, Mr. President, for coming to the MSC during this official visit. You're visiting Buckingham palace tomorrow and other famous places. But, you know, we're delighted you took the time to come here. You presented a very stimulating recollection of the events of the late 1980s and of your vision for the future of the European Union. You've answered a number of questions, some of which, as you said before.
- [68:29]
B
We.
- [68:29]
A
Came in, there's no such thing as an indiscreet question. There are only indiscreet answers. Which I thought was a lovely way of capturing what are the trials and tribulations of being a president in times of such political change and problems. But I think it was your answers for me sort of encapsulated some of.
- [68:55]
C
The.
- [68:57]
A
Great benefits and attractions of the European Union and the values underlying the European Union. Sorry, that's just a personal point. But I would like to say thank you, colleagues and everyone in the audience. Could you stay seated after you have given the President our usual thanks for his lecture and answer of the questions, and then I will lead him out before you leave the auditorium. And good night to you all.
- [69:38]
B
It.