Podcast Summary: Governing with Nature: Towards Transformative Change?

Podcast: LSE: Public lectures and events
Host: Dr. Rebecca Elliott, LSE Film and Audio Team
Guest: Professor Harriet Bulkeley, Durham University/Utrecht University
Date: February 11, 2026

Overview

In this keynote lecture, renowned environmental geographer Professor Harriet Bulkeley explores the emergent global phenomenon of "governing with nature"—the increasing adoption of nature-based solutions (NBS) in urban contexts to address climate change, biodiversity loss, and social well-being. Drawing on a decade of collaborative research, Bulkeley unpacks the conceptual, political, and practical dimensions of NBS, considering their transformative potential and the necessary cautions about justice, power, and ambivalence. The episode includes a rich audience Q&A, engaging critically with the economic, social, and ethical contours shaping the future of urban nature governance.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Introduction and Framing

[00:17-03:39]

• Dr. Rebecca Elliott introduces Prof. Harriet Bulkeley, highlighting her ability to clarify complex issues of environmental governance and her impact on policy.
• Bulkeley's approach: Embrace complexity while offering systematic ways to analyze and act, deeply rooted in collaboration across disciplines and sectors.

Notable Quote:
“Harriet has this unbelievable ability to take some of the most complex issues and problems out there and make them make sense… helping us not get lost or paralyzed by complexity.” (Elliott, 02:32)

2. Why Nature-Based Solutions? Historical & Conceptual Roots

[03:39-14:50]

• NBS are everywhere: From Hackney’s Woodberry Wetlands to Senegalese mangroves and beyond—urban and peri-urban landscapes are increasingly sites for ecological restoration or creation.
• Key Question: Why are cities (historically opposed to ‘wild’ nature) now seeking to cure their ills with nature?
• Nature-climate coupling: Increasingly, climate action is articulated as needing to “govern with nature,” not just separate technical interventions.
• Multiplicity of climate problems: Climate change is no longer seen as a singular emissions issue but as a set of systemic, interconnected challenges.
• Origins of NBS:
  • Movement from thinking of climate change as a discrete problem (end-of-pipe emissions) to systemic decarbonization.
  • Influence of Net Zero targets: “Once you decide you’re going to have net zero targets, you need something to take the carbon out of the atmosphere… hence the rise of forest carbon, etc.” (Bulkeley, 11:00)
  • Institutionalization via new networks, scientific reports (IPBES/IPCC), and global market mechanisms.

Notable Quote:
“Nature’s got an awful lot of work to do… It’s not a simple thing to solve all of these challenges at once, simultaneously.” (Bulkeley, 08:00)

3. The Politics of Nature-Based Solutions: Translation and Contestation

[14:50-24:00]

• Definitional politics: NBS definition by the UN (2022) took 7 years and remains contested, especially by the Global South: “Our nature is not your solution.”
• Translation objects & ‘frontiers’: NBS act as “frontier objects,” making the hybrid climate-biodiversity challenge legible and governable, but also opening to claims and contestations (drawing on Anna Tsing’s ‘frontiers’).
• Practical Examples: GP ‘social prescribing’ walks in nature as ‘solutions’ for mental health. The framing makes nature “an active policy problem—nature doesn’t just exist, it must solve things.”

Notable Quote:
“It’s in the making of [nature] into a solution for something, and I think that’s why it then of course has a politics… a solution for some people, not for everyone.” (Bulkeley, 09:38)

4. Nature, Urban Experimentation, and Governance

[24:14-36:00]

• Urban NBS as experiments: Increasing trend towards cities embracing nature, reversing modernist efforts that designed nature out.
• Empirical findings from Naturevation Project:
  • 1,000+ urban NBS cases in Europe: Projects typically address multiple challenges simultaneously; only a minority focus exclusively on environmental issues.
  • NBS projects tend to “add” goals over time (from health to regeneration to climate, etc.)
  • Projects range from small-scale community gardens to citywide greening (e.g., Berlin’s ‘sponge city’ model, Detroit’s greenways).
• Transformative potential:
  • Challenge to the idea that only large, fast changes are transformative.
  • NBS experiments can have transformative effects through three dynamics: amplification, destabilization (undoing entrenched logics/practices), and experimentation itself.

Notable Quote:
“An oak takes a very long time to grow. It doesn’t mean it’s not transformative… The question of what is too slow, what is too fragmented for change is not something we should take for granted.” (Bulkeley, 41:00)

5. Ambivalence, Justice, and the Limits of Control

[36:00-45:11]

• Ambivalence is fundamental: Working with nature involves “inherent ambivalence”—success isn’t fully controllable or always measurable.
• The need for a ‘compass’ not a ‘satnav’: We need guiding principles (like justice), not rigid routes, because open, ambivalent situations mean there is not just one way to solve multifaceted problems.
• Transformative has to mean just: Critique of ‘greenwashing’ or the assumption that urban nature is universally good—“If it’s not just, then it cannot be truly transformative.”

Notable Quote:
“Rather than working with a satnav approach… we need more of a compass that provides a sense of direction to us, the principles we want to follow—the idea of a just future, but doesn't give us only one pathway.” (Bulkeley, 44:00)

Audience Q&A: Key Insights & Memorable Exchanges

On Ambivalence and Policymaking

[45:41-48:59]

• How to sell uncertainty to policymakers?
  Bulkeley: Sometimes only the failure of fixed infrastructure to accommodate new uncertainties (e.g., Newcastle’s “Ouseburn” river flooding) pushes acceptance of NBS’s ambivalent character. When NBS are hard to “sell” on climate, projects foreground other certainties (wellbeing, clean air) to appeal to policymakers.
  • “All of the NBS that we've seen are selling themselves on something else that is certain… the wellbeing benefits, clean air.” (Bulkeley, 47:00)

On Funding and Economics

[49:03-51:28]

• Who pays?
  Generally, public or state-based funding dominates (90% in Europe/North America); in the Global South, multilateral donors, concessional loans, and philanthropy. There’s a desire for private investment, but the state is often expected to “de-risk” projects.
• On monetization:
  “If you’re putting the monetary value on the possibility of a SUD system to reduce the risk to Yorkshire Water of Barnsley flooding, that’s probably OK. But if it’s the last cornflower… maybe that’s different.” (Bulkeley, 50:00)
• Advocates for “layering values”—not all values should be monetized.

On Scale and Limits

[51:30-53:51]

• Limits to scaling NBS are often about competing land uses in rapidly urbanizing areas—land converted to housing/infrastructure.
• De-paving and micro-interventions offer options in mature cities, but these depend on land availability, planning, and political will.

On Justice, Biodiversity, and Agency

[53:57-58:12 / 61:15–64:45]

• NBS can reproduce inequalities, “green gentrification,” and elite capture (esp. in Latin America); transformative governance requires inclusive frameworks and recognition of non-human ‘claims’.
• Examples from Cartagena (Colombia): Community-led mangrove restoration tied to economic opportunity and recognition of nature’s rights.
• Multiple standards and politics: UN, IUCN, and others differ—political contestation is inherent in global environmental governance.

On Participation and Knowledge

[64:45-68:47]

• Local involvement crucial: “People must be part of nature-based solutions and become committed through citizen science involvement.” (Audience, 64:45)
• Cautions against purely instrumental “citizen science”; values diverse knowledge, including spiritual and indigenous perspectives.

On Air Quality, Heat, and Tree Politics

[68:47-72:35]

• NBS can improve or sometimes worsen air quality.
• Shade provision in Southern European cities is critical; Melbourne as a case where climate change is forcing reconsideration of tree species and urban canopy strategies.

On Children, Education & Governance

[72:35-76:25]

• Transformative change needs to engage children not as passive beneficiaries, but active agents—schools, sports clubs, and leisure centers as key sites.
• Examples: Paris' micro-interventions near schools, repurposing of sports fields.

On Indigenous Knowledge and (Post)Colonial Tensions

[78:54-83:20]

• Indigenous critique centers on both the ‘solutions’ framing and exclusion from problem-definition.
• Positive examples from Edmonton (Canada): co-development and even ‘ceding’ rights to Indigenous groups.
• New frontiers: The rise of “nature tech,” data-driven approaches, and their ambiguous relationships with indigenous partnerships.

On Practitioners, Ambivalence, and Justice

[83:20-85:43]

• Advice: Always question the frames being used—what possibilities do they open or foreclose for justice and inclusion?
• Ambivalence is not an endpoint, but a productive site to keep justice open and fragile, requiring constant work.

Notable Quote:
“Ambivalence is actually… generative of making sure we get to the points we want to get to in terms of justice.” (Bulkeley, 84:00)

Memorable Quotes

• “We’re not solving one problem... All the nature is being made to work on multiple fronts at once—simultaneously! The word ‘simultaneously’ is doing a lot of political work here.” (Bulkeley, 08:40)
• “Nature based solutions don't just solve climate or biodiversity. In European cities, they're primarily being done for social and economic purposes alongside environmental purpose, and that was quite surprising.” (Bulkeley, 28:35)
• “It is inherent in working with nature that it has ambivalence... you can do a lot to get there but there will always be something about it which is out of our control.” (Bulkeley, 43:00)
• “Rather than working with a satnav approach… we need more of a compass that provides a sense of direction to us, the principles we want to follow.” (44:00)

Timestamps for Key Sections

• Introduction and Set-Up: 00:17–03:39
• Why Nature-Based Solutions? 03:39–14:50
• Politics and Translation of NBS: 14:50–24:00
• Urban Experiments & Empirical Lessons: 24:14–41:00
• Transformative Change & Ambivalence: 41:00–45:11
• Q&A: Ambivalence & Policymakers: 45:41–49:03
• Q&A: Funding & Monetization: 49:03–51:28
• Q&A: Scale, Justice, and Limits: 51:30–58:12
• Q&A: Knowledge & Participation: 64:45–68:47
• Q&A: Air, Trees, Heat: 68:47–72:35
• Q&A: Children & Co-production: 72:35–76:25
• Q&A: Indigenous Communities: 78:54–83:20
• Q&A: Ambivalence & Justice for Practitioners: 83:20–85:43

Conclusion

Bulkeley’s lecture and discussion compellingly demonstrate that nature-based solutions are much more than technical fixes: they are deeply political, contingent, and require ongoing negotiation around meanings, values, justice, and power. True transformation, she argues, is never just about speed or scale—it requires reflexive, participatory approaches that embrace ambivalence, foster justice, and remain open to continuous learning, unlearning, and co-creation.

For listeners seeking a nuanced, up-to-date exposition of how cities are trying to “govern with nature,” this episode offers both conceptual clarity and practical insight—rich material for academics, practitioners, and engaged citizens alike.