Joyful Revolution: Poverty, Social Justice and a Pioneer of Participation
LSE Public Lectures and Events — November 4, 2025
Overview
This episode celebrates the launch of Joyful Revolution, a newly published biography of Mary Rabagliati, a pivotal but little-known figure in international anti-poverty work and co-founder of ATD Fourth World in the UK. The event, hosted as part of the ESRC Festival of Social Science, brings together author Diana Skelton, ATD Fourth World colleagues, experts on poverty and social justice, and Mary’s family. The discussion explores Mary’s legacy, the ethos of ATD Fourth World, and the ongoing importance of participation, dignity, and joy in movements for social change.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Introduction to ATD Fourth World & Mary Rabagliati
Speaker: Kate Evans [02:23]
- ATD Fourth World: Human rights-based anti-poverty organization, established in 1957, dedicated to promoting social justice and tackling persistent poverty globally.
- Mary’s Role: Instrumental in ATD’s founding, notable for both her humility and her profound influence on anti-poverty activism.
- Personal Story: Mary, at only 20, left a comfortable job to volunteer in the squalid shanty town of Noisy-le-Grand, outside Paris.
"These people made me realize that my life was shallow, empty and futile. ... I could nevertheless do something. ... The families there needed me to meet them and begin to understand who they were as people."
— Mary Rabagliati (read by Kate Evans) [04:30]
2. The Concept of a "Joyful Revolution"
Speaker: Diana Skelton [09:22]
- Revolution: For Mary, revolution was not violent upheaval, but a radical change in how society addresses poverty—demanding dignity and voice for those affected.
- Joy: Even amidst hardship, seeking joy and celebration is essential. It enables people living in poverty to share in the fullness of life and “join in everything that makes the world extraordinary.”
"When you're stuck in the misery of poverty, joy matters even more. All of us should find something to celebrate... This is not in spite of poverty. It is so that people who are excluded from society can finally join in everything that makes the world extraordinary."
— Mary Rabagliati (quoted by Diana Skelton) [10:58]
3. Early Work and Influence on ATD's Approach
Speaker: Diana Skelton [12:15-13:07]
- Understanding Women's and Girls' Experiences: Mary focused on the burdens placed on young women and mothers in poverty, especially regarding caring responsibilities and lack of basic resources.
- Innovative Practice at Frimhurst Family House: Unlike conventional centres that separated families and imposed “lessons,” Frimhurst welcomed whole families, started from their aspirations, and allowed stays as long as needed. This innovative model centered dignity, agency, and partnership.
"[Frimhurst] was all based on the aspirations families had. ... They were not told, 'You should do this, this different way.' They were asked, 'What is it you're dreaming of for your life, for your children's lives?'"
— Diana Skelton [15:02]
4. Academic Credentials & Policy Engagement
Speaker: Diana Skelton [16:33]
- Mary’s Motivation for Studying at LSE: Added credibility to her advocacy and helped her effectively communicate with policymakers, leveraging her grassroots experience with academic knowledge.
- Policy Influence: Mary pushed policymakers and organizations like UNICEF to take seriously the perspectives of people living in poverty, combining critique with constructive proposals.
5. Children's Rights and International Work
Speaker: Diana Skelton [18:49]
- UN Involvement: Mary curated the Children of Our Time exhibition for the International Year of the Child (1979), showcasing children’s experiences and voices in poverty.
- Legacy: Her advocacy for children’s and families’ rights continues in ATD’s current work, especially in combating the removal of children from families due to poverty.
6. Mary’s Impact on Colleagues and Movement Culture
Speaker: Diana Skelton [20:48]
- Teamwork and Wellbeing: Mary modeled care for colleagues—recognizing burnout and infusing energy and joy into activism.
- Co-responsibility and Candor: Emphasized shared responsibility, courageous mutual challenge, and deep listening as foundational for social change work.
"She had this huge sense of freedom and also an ethos about co-responsibility, that we're carrying things together. ... Being present to your teammates takes courage."
— Diana Skelton [21:22]
Panel Reflections
7. Fran Bennett: Participatory Research and ATD’s Approach
Speaker: Fran Bennett [23:34]
- From Input to Influence: Participation must go beyond anecdotal “quoting” of people experiencing poverty to full, deliberative partnership in shaping research, policy, and knowledge.
- ATD’s Merging of Knowledge Methodology: Brings together lived experience, academic, practitioner, and policymaker perspectives on equal footing.
- Transformative Impact: Participatory approaches affect not only “the poor” but also transform academics, policymakers, and society as a whole.
"The activists living in deep poverty said, 'It's what they do to us.' ... ATD wants people ... in deep poverty to be able to change the world as well."
— Fran Bennett [25:34]
- Innovation: ATD’s role in piloting tools like IDEAP for deliberative policy evaluation with the UN.
8. Eileen Alexander: Dignity, Friendship, and Joy in Research
Speaker: Eileen Alexander [33:05]
- Embracing Equal Exchange: Advocates approaches that break from “studying” others at a distance, instead forging reciprocal, respectful, and sometimes even friendly relationships.
- Creative Participation: Describes participatory photography projects as examples of finding and nurturing joy and agency.
- Academic Resistance: Notes discomfort in academic circles about closeness and “friendship” in research, but argues, supported by Mary’s example, for open-hearted engagement.
"I felt in some ways more connected to ... the group members [in Hackney] than with some of my academic peers. But Mary's writing and Diana's book have helped me to make better sense of this."
— Eileen Alexander [36:25]
Audience Q&A: Key Exchanges
On Mary’s Legacy for Everyone
Q (Caroline Pascal): What could Mary’s lessons offer for daily life beyond policy? [43:07]
A (Diana Skelton):
- Encourages engaging in dialogue with people from all walks of life, including those with different perspectives and experiences.
- Emphasizes breaking isolation and building bridges as part of the "joyful revolution":
"...get out there, get to know people with a different life experience and engaging with people who see something differently. ... That's part of the joyful revolution too." [44:40]
On Work & Opportunity
Q (David Harold Chester): Is lack of work opportunity the root of poverty? How can it be reversed? [45:33]
A (Diana Skelton/Eileen Alexander):
- Moving from people’s aspirations and creating enabling contexts is vital.
- Policy must be co-designed with those facing poverty.
- "Work" should be revalued beyond formal employment—recognizing caregiving, voluntary contributions, and creative pursuits.
On Including Children & Young People
Q (Prof. Priscilla Alderson): When you say 'people,' do you mean adults only? [46:03]
A:
- Children and young people are central to ATD’s mission, both as research and advocacy participants (e.g., Tapori children's movement) and in defending their right to family life.
- Their voices are actively brought into national and international debates.
On Sustaining Joy and Creativity
Q (Amoga Srinivas Gauru): How do you sustain joy and creativity in long-term anti-poverty work? [56:15]
A (Eileen Alexander/Diana Skelton):
- Deliberately co-create joy—invite diverse people, artists, and new perspectives.
- Attend to team wellbeing, foster mutual support, celebrate small wins, and take time to rejuvenate.
On Safety and Dialogue
Q (Nikki Wilson): How can challenging conversations happen safely in polarized times? [56:18]
A (Diana Skelton):
- Prepare people—especially those from marginalized backgrounds—to establish and defend their own boundaries in dialogue.
- ATD’s “merging of knowledge” process ensures peer support and gradual, trust-building engagement.
On Small Victories and Everyday Joy
Q (Dimitri Kalu): Can you share examples of 'small victories' or little joyful revolutions? [65:31]
A (Panel):
- Moments of reconciliation in a team, creative workshops, sharing meals and beauty (art, music), and participating in non-traditional community activities were cited as meaningful, incremental achievements.
On Mary’s Resilience
Q (Bob Rabagliati): How did Mary sustain optimism and spirit amidst constant exposure to poverty? [68:51]
A (Diana & Fran):
- Practices included regular walks, dancing, reflective writing, and nurturing team relationships, all key to maintaining energy and morale.
Notable Quotes & Moments
-
Mary’s insistence on joy:
"Joy is not in spite of poverty ... it’s so that people can fully join in everything that makes the world extraordinary."
— (Quoted by Diana Skelton) [10:58] -
On participatory research:
"It's hard to truly listen to someone going through their difficulties without taking away their agency by trying to problem solve in their place."
— Mary Rabagliati (shared by Fran Bennett) [24:30] -
On friendship and the boundaries of professionalism:
"Working with people in an open-hearted way is completely appropriate ... we don't always need to forsake this for the sake of ‘neutrality’."
— Eileen Alexander [37:08] -
On legacy and challenge:
"She’d probably challenge every individual in this room ... she wouldn’t let it go."
— Paul (Mary’s brother) [61:52]
Selected Timestamps for Key Segments
- ATD Fourth World and Mary’s Early Experiences: [02:23]
- The Meaning behind “Joyful Revolution”: [09:22]
- Frimhurst Family House Innovations: [13:55]
- Mary’s LSE Studies and Policy Advocacy: [16:33]
- Children of Our Time Exhibition: [18:49]
- Personal Memories of Mary – Joy and Teamwork: [20:48]
- Fran Bennett on Participatory Knowledge: [23:34]
- Eileen Alexander on Dignity and Rapport: [33:05]
- Audience Q&A — Everyday Legacy: [43:07]
- Audience Q&A — Work, Opportunity, and Youth: [45:33]; [46:03]; [49:34]
- Safety in Dialogue: [56:18]
- Small Victories & Everyday Joy: [65:31]
- Mary’s Resilience & Optimism: [68:51]
Conclusion
The episode paints a portrait of Mary Rabagliati as an activist who combined deep empathy, uncompromising commitment to dignity, faith in participatory approaches, and an embrace of joy—even amidst struggle. The conversation calls listeners and readers alike to carry forward Mary’s “joyful revolution,” not just through large-scale policy and activism, but in daily interactions, in the valuing of every person, and in building community across divides.
Further Actions:
- Read Joyful Revolution for greater depth and inspiration
- Engage with ATD Fourth World’s ongoing work
- Reflect on how to build joyful, dignified participation in your own context