LSE Literary Festival 2015: Changing Worlds

Podcast: LSE: Public Lectures and Events
Date: February 28, 2015
Panel: Elif Shafak, Neel Mukherjee, hosted by Bidisha

Overview

This episode is the closing event of the 2015 LSE Literary Festival, uniting award-winning novelists Elif Shafak (Turkey’s most read writer) and Neel Mukherjee (Booker Prize-shortlisted author) in a discussion led by journalist Bidisha. The central theme is "Changing Worlds," exploring how literature acts as both a witness and a response to political, social, and cultural upheaval. The panelists delve into issues of authenticity, the "insider-versus-outsider" dilemma, language and translation, the burdens of representation, the persistence of literary forms, and the changing landscape of global literature.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authenticity, Representation, and Outsider Status

• Writers as Spokespeople: Both Shafak and Mukherjee resist the role of being cultural ambassadors or spokespersons yet acknowledge an external expectation for them to comment authoritatively on their homelands.
  • Mukherjee: "We have no special knowledge about anything apart from imaginary things. We're good at lying because that's what fiction does." [06:49]
  • Shafak: “Being the insider outsider, having some kind of distance, enables us perhaps to think differently, to see things differently, and then to express those things differently.” [09:04]
• Burden of Political Expectation:
  • Shafak: "There's an expectation in the literary world... whenever something happens in Turkey ... you're expected to comment... I don't think we have the luxury of saying, I'm not interested in politics. I can't say that. Everything I write about has a political repercussion. But ... my main guide is imagination. It's the art of storytelling." [09:04]

Memorable Quote

“It is the moral responsibility of the writer not to feel at home at home.”
— Neel Mukherjee, quoting Adorno [11:24]

2. Language, Identity, and Betrayal

• Both writers navigate multiple languages—Shafak writes in Turkish and English, Mukherjee in English with intentions to write in Bengali.
• Switching Languages:
  • Shafak: “Writing in English somehow gives me a kind of freedom that maybe I don't feel when I'm writing in Turkish... but I also love writing Turkish... I feel attached to each language in a very different way.” [15:10]
  • On Accusations of Betrayal: “I was accused of betraying my nation … How can a writer not write in her mother tongue?” [15:10]
• Language Loss and Recovery:
  • Shafak: "The Turkish language...has lost a lot of its vocabulary because the language has been Turkified...Trying to put old words back into the language...Nuances are important." [20:19]
• Colonial Languages:
  • Mukherjee: "English is an Indian language ... if India had colonized England, maybe they'd read us." [17:21, 19:29]

3. Expectations, Stereotypes, and Literary Form

• There is strong critique of reductive expectations from Western publishers/critics for non-Western writers to "explain" their countries or write on "expected" issues (e.g., terrorism, the veil, arranged marriage).
  • Mukherjee: "This drives me crazy...I get stereotyped all the time...because I'm Indian, I'm writing either about inequality or about family saga." [23:14]
  • Shafak: "If you write in English, then you're more easily labeled as the betrayer...even when I tweet in English about Turkey, people get anxious: 'Why are you writing in English? We don't want anyone to know.'" [20:19]

4. Reading, Empathy, and the Loneliness of the Novel

• Empathy Through Fiction: The novel’s solitary nature (for both writer and reader) makes it unusually powerful in cultivating empathy.
  • Shafak: “The novel for me...is the loneliest form of art...But in that inner space we tend to be...a bit more liberal, a bit more open minded, a bit more open hearted.” [29:18]
• Limits of Empathy:
  • Mukherjee: "I think...for the duration of reading, [the experience] is within the context of the imaginative world. I can't make large claims for change." [33:31]
  • Shafak: “Empathy is like a muscle. The more you empathize, the bigger it grows.” [33:41]

5. History, Silences, and Multiple Perspectives

• Fiction’s capacity to fill in the silences of history is highlighted.

  • Mukherjee: “Novels arise out of the shortcomings of history...fiction goes somewhere about meditation on history and historical events that history really cannot go.” [43:44]

• Both writers emphasize their interest in the forgotten, silenced, or marginalized voices within history.

  • Shafak: “Minorities have always been very important for me. I use the word minority in the broadest sense possible...The underbelly always draws me.” [35:02]

6. Coexistence of Forms, Reading Habits, and Publishing Trends

• The persistence of the long, immersive novel form alongside fragmentary "digital" writing is discussed.
  • Mukherjee: “The house of fiction has many rooms ... the 19th century form still persists. At the same time, we have modernist stuff reinvented for our times.” [42:57]
  • On trends: "Flash fiction maybe, but also Game of Thrones...People seem to have an endless appetite for these immersive worlds." [46:13]
• Book Culture and Digital Age:
  • Shafak: “We are not living in linear times...Lots of things, contradictory things are happening at the same time...Even Kindle sales have suffered. Major publishing houses are doing well...the chains, you know, have suffered.” [43:41]

7. Globalization, Translation, and Literary Gatekeeping

• The Anglophone world’s “insularity” is critiqued; translation rates in the UK are dismally low compared to European countries.
  • Mukherjee: "English is a killer language...Anglophone countries feel they don't need to engage with other cultures. I find this terrifying." [51:20]
  • Shafak: "We read Western literature more than Europeans read Turkish literature. But also...there is a more dangerous underlying thing...they expect books from, for instance, Afghanistan to 'teach' something about Afghanistan.” [52:44]

8. Audience Q&A—Selected Themes

• Language Reform & Ottoman Turkish: Shafak advocates for pluralism in Turkish language without erasing either the old or new, pushing against top-down imposition. [55:00]
• Writerly Discontent: Mukherjee remarks that writing often comes from unease and limitation, not contentment. [57:54]
• Literary Pluralism and the Nobel Effect: Both writers discuss how literary prizes can inadvertently cast a single writer as the “voice” of an entire nation, often to the detriment of others. [76:34]
• Exile and Solidarity: Diasporic or exiled communities can foster greater solidarity among writers and broader appreciation. [82:44]
• Insider/Outsider Inspiration: Both agree that the breadth of one’s reading and interactions may matter more than physical location. [72:25]
• Identity and the Middle Class: Both address the complexities, tensions, and self-hatred associated with the middle class in their societies. [65:21]
• Travel vs. Reading: Both endorse a "both/and" approach—travel and reading are complementary in experiencing the world. [75:52]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On the Outsider’s Creative Advantage

"In between is an ideal position for a writer... Maybe writing in English also gives me that kind of distance."
— Elif Shafak [09:04]

• On Literary Empathy

"Empathy is like a muscle. The more you empathize, the bigger it grows."
— Elif Shafak [33:41]

• On Colonial Language and Authenticity

"English is an Indian language...If India had colonized England, maybe they'd read us."
— Neel Mukherjee [19:29]

• On Politics and Storytelling

“I can't say that everything I write about has a political repercussion. But … my main guide is imagination.”
— Elif Shafak [09:04]

• On the Loneliness of the Novel

“The novel...is the loneliest form of art...in that inner space we tend to be a bit more open-minded…”
— Elif Shafak [29:18]

• On the ‘Killer Language’ of English

“English is a killer language, as Boyd Tonkin calls it...it has the effect of subduing and pushing away all other languages.”
— Neel Mukherjee [51:20]

• On Writerly Discontent

"Most writers tend to be very uneasy in their skins because they're trying to work out a very shifting calculus between themselves and how they relate to the world. I think writing comes from a position of great discomfort..."
— Neel Mukherjee [57:54]

• On Literary Pluralism and Resentment

“Culture is a circle, it's a whole, everything is connected. So if they read another author, that means they will also read my book. But this is not how we reconcile...In Turkey, no two novelists say nice things about each other.”
— Elif Shafak [79:25]

Readings / Excerpts (Selected Highlights)

Neel Mukherjee – The Lives of Others [24:22]

A first-person passage describing the physical and emotional unease of a middle-class revolutionary attempting agricultural labor, underscoring the novel’s themes of class, authenticity, and self-hatred.

Elif Shafak – The Architect’s Apprentice [36:29]

Opening pages introducing the mystical worldview of the apprentice of Sinan and the nature of historical memory, hidden stories, and cross-cultural unity—delivered in evocative, fable-like prose.

Flow and Tone

The discussion is wide-ranging, intellectually rich, and marked by humor, candor, and warmth between the panelists. The tone is incisively critical when addressing representation, yet celebratory of literature’s power to bridge divides and stir empathy. Both Shafak and Mukherjee are self-reflective and generous, offering global perspectives that transcend easy binaries.

Segmented Highlights with Timestamps

• [03:12-06:41] Introductions & discussion brief
• [06:41-12:48] Authenticity, representation, and outsider perspectives
• [14:44-22:28] Writing in multiple languages and reactions from home cultures
• [23:14-24:22] On publishing expectations and stereotypes
• [29:18-34:23] The empathy and solitary nature of reading fiction
• [35:02-36:26] Minority voices and subverting Orientalist expectations
• [42:45-47:24] Persistence of literary forms and the impact of the digital revolution
• [51:20-53:57] Translation, globalization, and the Anglophone hegemony
• [54:33-74:44] Audience Q&A: language, class, insider/outsider, travel vs. reading, the Nobel effect

Conclusion

The panel’s discussion weaves personal experience with larger questions about literature’s role in ever-changing societies. Shafak and Mukherjee challenge notions of authenticity, highlight the power and limits of fiction, and urge for a more open, pluralistic engagement with languages, forms, and peoples—both as creators and readers.

(Note: Section on book signing, jazz, and closing social event omitted, as per instructions.)